Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Jason Bradley (Host), Denry White, Gordon Fraser, Xavier Morales
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000184A
|
00:01 Who should win the Father of the Year Award?
00:02 Stay tuned to meet some men who you may just want to nominate. 00:06 My name is Yvonne Lewis 00:08 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:33 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:35 Earlier today, Jason and I had the opportunity 00:38 to interview three men on our new Dare to Dream Program 00:41 "A Father's Heart. " 00:42 What a compelling interview, check it out. 00:47 What a blessing it is 00:49 to be sitting on the set of: A Father's Heart. 00:53 You have no idea what's gone into this program. 00:56 I have wanted to do a program about Fatherhood 01:00 for years on Dare to Dream 01:02 and every year we have somebody to host 01:06 and it just wouldn't work out right... for whatever reason 01:10 but the Lord is faithful 01:12 and He has sent some folks to this program 01:16 that are just amazing! 01:18 So, we're going to introduce them to you 01:20 but first I just want to tell you, 01:22 I got my son and assistant, Jason Bradley with me, yea, Jay. 01:26 Jason: Right... Yvonne: Yeah... 01:27 So, it's really great and we're going to talk 01:29 to these wonderful men of God... 01:30 these wonderful fathers who, you will see, 01:34 are authentic and transparent and what a blessing it is 01:38 so, we're going to start with the Host, Xavier Morales, 01:42 and we welcome you Xavier. 01:44 Xavier: Thank you. 01:45 You are no stranger to Dare to Dream, 01:47 you've been on Pure Choices with your wife, Brittany, 01:50 and we're going to talk about 01:51 your journey and all that in a bit. 01:54 Thank you so much for hosting 01:55 and for being on: A Father's Heart 01:59 and then we have, Pastor Gordon Fraser 02:02 who is another amazing man of God, 02:05 we have Pastor Denry White who also is an amazing man of God 02:11 so we are thrilled to have them and thrilled for you 02:16 to become acquainted with them. 02:17 You need to know who they are, you need to know their journeys 02:21 and most of all, you need to know 02:23 that these are men who'll be authentic 02:27 and transparent with you 02:28 to show you that if you're a father 02:31 and you're trying and struggling 02:33 to do the right thing, they're going to show you... 02:36 they've made mistakes but you get back up 02:38 by the grace of God and keep going. 02:41 So, let's talk a bit about your journey. 02:45 Let's start with you, Pastor White, 02:48 let's start with you. 02:50 Where were you born, where were you raised? 02:52 I was born originally... 02:54 I was born in Jamaica, West Indies, 02:56 but then I was raised in New York City 02:59 Harlem, New York... and then went to Oakwood College 03:03 and took the call to Ministry there. 03:05 Yvonne: Yea... we're Oakwoodites too! 03:08 You too? yeah, a further call to Ministry 03:11 would compel to go to Oakwood but then... you know... 03:14 you know how we try to run from our God... 03:16 I said, "God, you've made a mistake," 03:18 I went to Atlanta, stayed there seven years 03:21 and God would not leave me alone... 03:23 Well, before you get that far... let's go back... 03:26 because I kind of want to know... 03:28 since you're hosting... you're on A Father's Heart, 03:32 what... what... did you grow up in an intact family? 03:37 Or was it a single-parent family or... 03:40 where was your dad? 03:42 My biological father was in Jamaica 03:46 but even while the time we were in Jamaica, 03:49 he was in and out of my life, he has six children, 03:54 all boys and different mothers and so... 03:57 he and my mother never married, she had me at 19-years-old 04:02 and, you know, my mother... 04:03 her mother actually was 04:06 a Founder of our Seventh-day Adventist Church in Jamaica, 04:08 so she went through a whole "shame" process 04:11 but, you know, I felt... later on... 04:13 it affected my life and my journey because of... 04:16 you know... her relationship... 04:18 of her trying to hide the pregnancy... 04:19 then have to go through the shame 04:22 because it was a very ultra-conservative church 04:25 and my grandmother was very strict, 04:27 didn't talk about sex, didn't talk about family, 04:30 didn't talk about relationship. 04:31 I remember my mom even telling me one time 04:33 they got spanked for looking at a boy 04:37 when they were sitting in the car, 04:40 and those kinds of things and so, 04:43 when she had me she was very ashamed of it... 04:47 and so, I think later on that affected me... 04:50 Yvonne: How... how do you think it affected you? 04:53 Well, how I knew this was... 04:56 for years I've just had this anger in me, 04:59 I'm a man of humor, I love to laugh... 05:02 I love to make people laugh and stuff but 05:05 when I had my dark moments, I would just be angry, 05:08 I lost two jobs... doing that, 05:11 I worked in Mental Health and I just lost my temper twice. 05:15 I just couldn't take it and I just... was fired because 05:20 I'd lost my temper, and I've... in the early part of my marriage 05:24 put holes in doors, just angry... 05:28 I never hit my wife... nothing like that... 05:30 but I was just so angry and I just didn't know why. 05:33 Like I said, it was the opposite of me. 05:37 I was usually the fun-loving, laughing person... 05:40 I always had to joke... these guys know me... 05:43 I always have something to lighten up the place but then 05:45 when I had my moments, I'll just be upset... 05:48 and I couldn't know why and I went to... 05:51 my wife was like... one day, she was like... 05:54 she's an African American woman, 05:55 she said, "You're going to see a Counselor or I'm out... " 05:59 and I had to swallow my pride and see a Counselor 06:02 and after talking for a while, 06:03 you know how they pull all your background, 06:06 you know... that's why I grab my pillow sometimes 06:08 Yvonne: Oh, we love that... 06:10 Jason: That's the signature move on A Father's Heart. 06:12 So let me grab my pillow now because we're having a good time 06:15 and so... he went all the way to my background 06:19 even to the womb... even into the womb... 06:22 and this is something we'll talk about later on 06:26 even to the womb... of how my mother's fear... 06:30 trying to hide a pregnancy... the shame... 06:33 affected me... and I was like... "How's that?" 06:35 And then he showed me the patterns of my life... 06:38 like, when I came to America... 06:40 I was taunted by some... the classmates 06:44 when I was in first and second grade... 06:45 called all kinds of names, reference to my nose, 06:49 my skin color, all these things 06:50 and I felt like the only way to fit in 06:54 was to make fun of people too, 06:56 this is where the humor part comes in, 06:58 you know... and then so... throughout my life 07:01 I felt like the only way to fit in 07:03 because I felt like I always had to fit in, 07:05 I was just never enough... and constantly throughout my life 07:08 even with my wife... like... sometimes I would feel like... 07:12 "What more do you need me to do, 07:14 you don't want me?" I would just say to her... 07:15 "Are you sure you married the right one?" 07:17 and she would just look at me like... 07:19 "I'm invested in this... what do you... 07:21 why do you keep asking me this?" 07:22 And so I brought this up to the Counselor... the Psychologist 07:27 and he was explaining to me the effects of being in the womb 07:31 with your mother... living in shame... 07:34 and constantly... even reminding you... 07:36 while you're out of the womb, like, 07:39 "Hey, I had to hide the pregnancy... " 07:41 all this... worked into me 07:44 and so... for most of my life, I've dealt with rejection... 07:49 I wasn't wanted... I was the "mistake child" 07:52 the mistake... because in her eyes... 07:57 it was a mistake... it was her first time... 08:00 because she wasn't taught about sex, 08:02 she wasn't taught about relationships 08:05 and so, the next thing she knew was... 08:07 that she was pregnant so she was living in shame 08:09 it was her first time... so, I thought I was a mistake 08:12 until... yeah. 08:14 And isn't it amazing that what happens in the womb 08:18 affects us throughout our lives, 08:21 we don't even realize that, 08:23 it's not something that is commonly known... 08:25 it's not something that's commonly discussed, 08:28 but it can affect us throughout our lives 08:31 that's why it's so important to take care of that baby, 08:36 even in utero, because... because... 08:40 in your life... it can just follow you... your whole life 08:45 And you also brought out a good point 08:47 that... you know... she wasn't talked to about sex, 08:50 her parents never taught her anything, 08:51 and that's why it's so important that parents teach their kids 08:54 about sex and all that stuff 08:57 because if they don't learn from their parents, 08:58 the right way... the Biblical way... 09:00 "after you get married... " 09:03 then, they're either learning just... 09:05 from what they see on television 09:08 or what they're learning from their friends 09:09 or if they're learning from the Street, 09:11 they're learning about lust 09:13 and not love and God's plan after marriage. 09:16 Exactly... exactly... 09:18 So, you carried this into your adulthood and... 09:24 how did this affect your being a father? 09:29 I didn't have a father to talk to, 09:31 even my step-dad... for years kind of neglected me 09:35 he loved me... but what he considered was love 09:39 was not what I was looking for... for years 09:42 and so, now... as a father... 09:45 with three beautiful children, best children in the world, 09:47 my children are better than 09:49 anyone of yours' children... see that? 09:51 and so... my three beautiful children... 09:54 wonderful guys... wonderful, beautiful young girl, 09:58 a lot of times 09:59 I want to have an example 10:04 that I can use in reference to them... 10:07 in a situation... but I have none... 10:10 or it's not the best example... it's a negative one 10:14 and so it's a struggle it really... even to this day 10:18 now that I use my... 10:20 I try to look at God as my example... 10:23 I look at Him as a father but in human nature 10:25 you always want something tangible... the human... 10:27 that you can say, "Hey... I want to model 10:29 after that person. " 10:31 and so, there's a difficulty 10:33 because there's a void that's missing... 10:35 and so... sometimes when I look for something, 10:38 I don't have it, 10:40 so a lot of times I have to make it up 10:42 or pray... literally pray and ask God, 10:44 "What shall I do in this situation?" 10:46 And I made a lot of mistakes in my parenting 10:50 as well as my marriage and by the grace of God, 10:54 I'm doing better, I'm doing much better 10:59 and I have a lot better to do. 11:00 Amen, thank you, that's a beautiful piece 11:06 of your journey because so many men 11:09 have not had a father as an example, 11:13 so, what do you do? 11:15 What do you pull from? 11:16 And that's what a father's heart is about. 11:19 It's about your... sharing your journeys 11:22 as well as giving strategies and tips to men 11:26 who want to be better fathers who don't know how. 11:29 What about you, Pastor Gordon, 11:32 tell us about your journey and your dad. 11:37 I... I had a father... and an intact family 11:42 my dad was never there 11:45 the marriage was a communal marriage 11:48 so, most of the time, he worked away from home, 11:53 very good provider, there was nothing that 11:56 we could have ever gone without, 11:58 we had everything that we needed, 12:00 grew up... growing up in Guyana, 12:02 it was a wonderful place, 12:04 but still you had some economical challenges but 12:08 my family... because of my dad's position 12:10 and because of what He did, we never had it... anything... 12:14 but what I didn't have was him in the home. 12:18 I missed that, so it was just my mom 12:23 that was with us playing ball and doing all of the things 12:27 that a father would normally do, 12:30 when he came home on the weekends... 12:32 because my mom... we were a Seventh-day Adventist family, 12:36 he was not... he had left the church 12:38 so, he wouldn't even go to church with us, 12:42 and I still remember those days when we would walk to church 12:47 and my dad was out with the car, driving, 12:50 and we'd just walk to church and come back home 12:54 and so we never had that... 12:56 I never had that time that I craved, 12:59 so I grew up... unbeknownst to me 13:02 with a lot of resentment towards my dad 13:05 and when it all clicked is when... my dad got very sick 13:12 and had Diabetes... he lost his sight... 13:17 and it was very, very difficult for me... as a son... 13:27 to step in to help him, 13:28 I remember days when he would be calling me 13:32 and I'd just sit there and didn't want to go. 13:35 looking back, how much... 13:39 it's a lot of pain even talking about it, right now, 13:42 but... I had to forgive him, 13:47 I had to get to a point where I'd forgive him... 13:51 if I didn't... there was no way 13:54 that I could have reached out to him 13:56 and just do what I needed to do as a son, 14:00 I always wanted to... not to be like my father... 14:06 working... working... 14:08 spending no time with the children 14:10 but somehow... I was turning out to be like him 14:17 in ministry... always gone... 14:20 but I thank God that every now and again, 14:23 I have a wife that checks me and says, 14:26 "Hmmm... hmmm... you're gone too much, 14:29 you need to spend time with the children. " 14:32 I did a lot of that when they were babies 14:34 and I was not in ministry, just working in Florida, 14:37 I would spend time, I was there, 14:40 I was always there with them going right... 14:42 doing the things that my dad didn't do, 14:45 riding with them, taking them out, 14:48 I mean, they were always in my hand, 14:51 they just stayed right here, you know, 14:55 but coming back to when my dad was sick 14:58 he was in a nursing home, 15:01 we had to take him and put him in a nursing home... 15:03 I wouldn't go see him, I just couldn't. 15:08 Did you feel... when you weren't going... 15:12 did you feel anger toward him, 15:15 what were you feeling that was blocking... going? 15:20 That's the amazing thing, I really... 15:23 I can't articulate what I was feeling... 15:26 it was almost like a numbness, say, you know, 15:31 why even go? almost a resentment. 15:35 But I really... at that time... couldn't articulate 15:39 what I was dealing with until later on in life. 15:43 Then, I was actually preaching a sermon 15:47 and I used the illustration and then all of a sudden, 15:51 I broke down and then I realized 15:54 "Wow! this is what I was dealing with" 15:59 and I'll never forget the sight of the thing, 16:04 the Holy Spirit drove me to the Nursing Home 16:07 and I got there and I walk into the room, 16:11 I looked at my dad and I just... 16:13 Pastor: Sorry man... Yvonne: Yeah... take your time 16:21 I just broke down, 16:24 because here's the son 16:27 now becoming a father... Yvonne: Hmmm... 16:31 a father who wasn't there... 16:36 Yvonne: Yes... 16:37 Gordon: and... Hmmm... 16:47 I just got over to him and I touched him 16:51 and said, "Dad, I'm here" 16:55 Yvonne: Hmmm... 16:58 and the Holy Spirit just said, just sing... 17:01 and I started to sing... "When peace like a river" 17:05 and then I moved to "What a friend we have in Jesus" 17:08 and something just started to change... 17:13 inside of me 17:15 and I started to pray and ask God to forgive me 17:20 because the times that I could have had with him 17:25 I knew he was not going to last for too long... 17:30 the times I could have had... I wasted those times... 17:35 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... 17:36 But I thank God that I was able to push all of that hurt 17:41 and anger and stuff inside and allow the Holy Spirit 17:46 to just change me so that I could reach out to him 17:51 and I tell you this... the latter days of his life 17:55 were the best days of my life with him 17:58 because I would visit him and sing to him 18:02 and ask him to give his life... 18:04 "Lord, forgive him for everything" 18:07 so the one great consolation that I have... 18:11 is that when Jesus comes again, I will see him again 18:17 and when I see him again, 18:20 we will have all the time in the world to spend together 18:25 so, that's what keeps me encouraged, 18:30 that's what keeps me going, 18:32 because I know I would have that time. 18:34 That is so beautiful, you know, 18:36 a couple of things, one is... 18:38 forgiveness frees us, 18:42 you know, when we hold things... 18:45 and you can't... have to make a conscious decision 18:48 that "Lord, please help me to forgive" 18:51 because people can hurt us so deeply... 18:54 so deeply... and yet... 18:56 you know, you asked God to help you to forgive him 19:00 and He did, and you were set free, 19:03 you were set free, 19:06 because it wasn't him so much as you... 19:09 so God set you free through forgiveness 19:12 and yet so many people are... 19:14 you might be harboring 19:16 some ill feelings towards someone that's hurt you deeply, 19:19 but know that God wants to set you free from that 19:23 you have to just ask Him, "Help me, set me free... 19:27 help me to forgive this person" and it's not easy 19:30 but when you do that, it sets you free. 19:35 And the other thing that I wanted to mention 19:38 was that, so often we can get caught up 19:42 even in the work of the Lord I mean... these are pastors... 19:45 chaplains... all here... 19:48 you can get so caught up in the work of the Lord, 19:51 that you neglect the Lord of the work 19:54 and we have to stay, prayed up, 19:59 we have to stay connected because without that connection, 20:03 it's just works... 20:04 it's just works... and our families are suffering. 20:09 That's a good point because 20:10 Sister White says in Adventist Home, 20:12 I couldn't tell you the page number, 20:15 my girlfriend and I read Adventist Home together, 20:18 it's like 500 something pages right... so... 20:21 Yvonne: I'm proud of you. Jason: Thanks to Tiffany. 20:23 But she says that ministry starts in the home, 20:28 so often we look to go outside of the home to minister, 20:32 we look to go to outside of the Country, 20:34 we have our own problems right here in America, 20:37 we have our own problems right here at home, 20:39 and so... so often we see a lot of pastors that... 20:43 they get so caught up in ministry 20:46 that they neglect their families and it's not on purpose 20:50 it's just that they're ministering to everyone else 20:54 and their families need them to minister to them. 20:59 Yes, so, we're so thankful that God is a faithful God 21:05 and that He knows your journey intimately 21:09 and He has brought you from this point to this point 21:14 because now, there are so many men 21:17 and women whose fathers and mothers... on some level 21:21 have just... you know... it's been dysfunctional 21:25 and what you are doing with this program 21:29 is... sharing your journey and letting people know 21:32 that God is faithful and that He will redeem... 21:35 and that He will restore... 21:37 because that's what He's done for you. 21:40 What about you Xavier? 21:42 I grew up in the perfect home, so to speak, 21:45 Adventist, vegetarian, the works... 21:48 I did everything according to the book, 21:52 and my dad and my mom 21:54 have been married for almost 40 years now, 21:56 so it's been fantastic yet... 21:59 and I was taught by my dad... I'm the only child, 22:01 so I was taught... my dad was always there... 22:03 when he got home from work 22:06 even though tired, he'll spend time with me, 22:07 he taught me how to fix cars, how to build things and 22:11 basically everything that a dad needs to do 22:13 except on how to cope with my emotions... 22:16 that always has been my handicap all my life. 22:20 My dad... he only taught me what he knew 22:24 but what he knew was anger, he never abused me 22:28 but I did get disciplined and the way he coped with me 22:36 when I would get... you know... 22:38 I tried to talk to him about my emotions 22:40 and just... you know, basically not deal with it 22:43 you know, I'd have to talk to my mom 22:46 and I remember when I got to the age... 22:48 at my adolescent age, 22:50 between the hormones and everything, 22:52 I was always wanting to talk, 22:55 I was always more of the emotional son... 22:57 I wanted to talk... express myself 22:59 and my dad... one time... he just looked at me 23:01 and he said, "I can't deal with... " 23:03 he looked at my mom... he looked at me... 23:05 he said, "I can't deal with him anymore... you talk to him" 23:07 I felt so rejected in my own home that I was like... 23:12 "If he rejects me... then... I don't like God anymore" 23:17 because he was the image of God to me 23:21 my father reflects my Heavenly Father 23:24 and I rejected and I said to myself... 23:28 "Well, if God doesn't exist... 23:29 if God exists according to what they say, 23:31 then the devil exists too" 23:32 so if my father rejects me... then... 23:35 I don't want any part of this, I'm going to the other side 23:37 and I accepted Satan... as it were 23:41 into my heart for 12 years... 23:43 Yvonne: 12 years! 23:45 When you first were drawn to that whole... the dark side... 23:52 did you have any kind of reticence about getting into it 23:58 were you hesitant at all? 24:00 Did you say... "Oooh! I don't know about that?" 24:04 What drew you to that? 24:06 I was angry and part of my emotional state was because 24:09 I was in my adolescent stage, I had been rejected by girls... 24:13 "the short pudgy guy... " and then rejected by my father, 24:17 I was just angry and God wasn't making my anger go away 24:22 so I wanted to feed into it and I wanted people to pay 24:26 and I remember I told the devil, "I will join you... 24:30 I already know what you're about... 24:32 I don't want to be some dark-dressing, 24:35 Goth-looking person, I want to serve you and 24:38 I want to kill those who hurt me. " 24:42 Pastor: Mercy... Yvonne: Wow... 24:44 I studied about serial killers 24:46 and I wanted to be the most famous of them all. 24:49 Pastor: Mercy... have mercy... Yvonne: Wow! 24:53 You really... really went over to the dark side 24:58 and let's be clear about where you are 25:03 when you're on that side, like... did you have any joy? 25:07 Did you have any... like where were you 25:10 in the other parts of your emotional life? 25:12 I thought I had joy... I mean... I got everything I wanted 25:18 but it was my flesh... I wanted it and not... 25:22 it was always... at the end of the day I still felt empty 25:25 and I fed my emptiness with alcoholism... 25:29 at 15... I was already an alcoholic, 25:31 drugs, women, pornography, 25:36 everything that can keep my brain... a pile of mush 25:40 so I could still be a puppet of the devil. 25:43 Every type of coping mechanism, if you want to call it that 25:47 was available to me at my disposal 25:50 and I would get in fights with people 25:52 and not even recall... all I remembered was just 25:56 waking up and knowing nothing on me... 25:59 but they were just beyond injured 26:01 and I lost a lot of friends because they told me, 26:05 "Xavier, you're going to kill somebody... " 26:07 and they said, "You don't even need a weapon, 26:10 you'd just do it with your bare hands. " 26:12 And I remember, I would look at them and say, 26:15 "That's the goal... " and I lost a lot of friends 26:19 and... I mean... it took me till I was 25 26:21 and I met God... 26:24 I ended up in jail by getting into a Bar fight 26:27 and I was already a Police Officer 26:29 trying to do the right thing 26:31 and all that... but my dad... 26:32 I never talked to my dad throughout that time, 26:35 I talked to my mom and my mom said, 26:38 "We'll pray for you" and, 26:40 you know, "please... " she would beg with me 26:42 and I just didn't listen, I was so angry at the world 26:46 and I resonate with Pastor Denry because I worn down... 26:49 I would smash doors, windows, I mean, I would bleed, 26:53 my hands would bleed and I would feel no pain, 26:55 I mean, the anger was so... I can't even describe it. 26:59 Yvonne: Hmmm... Xavier: I was so angry 27:02 and God met me in jail. Pastor: Mercy... 27:05 And He said... and it's not this compassionate God 27:09 that people... He knew I was hard-headed. 27:11 He just said, "Are you done?" 27:13 All: Hmmm... 27:15 "Are you ready to try my way now?" 27:16 All: Hmmm... 27:17 And I started to... and... I talked to my dad, 27:21 my dad was actually the one... I was in a different State 27:25 I was out of the State of Florida, 27:26 in West Virginia and 27:28 he's the one that came... bailed me out of jail 27:30 with his retirement fund and... 27:32 Now this was before or after you had an encounter with God? 27:37 After I had an encounter and... 27:39 I mean, I tried to commit suicide 27:41 before that... everything... you name it... 27:44 I was just empty... empty... empty... empty... 27:46 an emptiness that I could not describe, it's like a black hole 27:48 and you try to fill it but it just doesn't work, 27:52 it's the "God space," 27:53 it's the space that God needs to take. 27:55 Yvonne: That's right. 27:56 And my dad packed up all my stuff 27:58 and he says, you know, I lost a home... 28:01 I lost... I had a house, 28:02 two cars, a wife... in 24 hours, everything was gone. 28:07 Wife, cars, everything... 28:09 and my dad said, "You're coming home" 28:11 and we talked for... it was like a twelve-hour trip, 28:14 we talked and he asked me for forgiveness... 28:18 for not listening, for being too strict on me 28:22 and not teaching me that a real man cries, 28:25 Yvonne: Hmmm... 28:27 So I made amends with my dad and it wasn't until I was an adult 28:34 that I learned how to be a father. 28:36 It's crazy because I have two girls 28:39 and I'm like, "God... 28:41 I'm such a... I'm so rough around the edges 28:45 why did you give me two girls?" 28:46 And my four-year-old ministers to me 28:50 and makes me a better father. 28:52 Hmmm... that is a powerful testimony, 28:57 I mean, because, you know, what you show 29:00 is that... because we always talk about God's plan, 29:04 God has a plan to prosper us, 29:06 God has a plan to give us a future and a hope 29:09 you know... an expected end 29:11 but Satan has a plan... to destroy... 29:14 and so... whoever we choose... 29:18 that's the plan we're on, 29:19 and when we choose God's plan, God has just brought you back up 29:26 that hole is full now with His presence 29:30 but before... Satan was taking you down 29:34 and you were more and more despondent, 29:36 more and more in despair because... 29:39 because you were serving 29:40 the enemy of souls and so, when you do that... 29:45 you're going to be... you're walking the dark side 29:48 but God is so faithful because He knew what it took 29:52 to get your attention and He knew what it took 29:55 to bring you back to Him, to really bring you to Him, 29:59 this time, not through your parents, 30:02 not through their relationship but your relationship 30:05 and so... I mean... I think that that is just 30:09 incredible and I think all of you are better fathers 30:13 because of your journey, not that... you know... 30:17 not that God put you on that path... we make choices... 30:21 and there are consequences to those choices 30:25 but your journey has made you better dads. 30:29 What do you think Jason? 30:30 It's also interesting because I mean... 30:32 usually in all situations 30:34 where there's either an absent father 30:37 or a father who just really doesn't know how to be a father 30:41 to his child, that kid grows up 30:43 and he either goes one of two ways... 30:46 . either he becomes just like his dad... 30:49 and treats his kids the same way that his dad did, 30:52 or he breaks that cycle 30:54 and he gives his kids what he never had 30:57 and so it's interesting to see that the fathers that grow up 31:04 and the kids that grow up and become fathers 31:07 that give their kids what their dad never gave them. 31:11 My dad... when I was a kid... 31:15 he lost his dad at a very early age, 31:19 I mean, he was still a kid himself 31:22 and so I never had a chance to meet my grandpa, 31:25 well, from the stories that I've heard, 31:27 my dad didn't experience... 31:31 like... he didn't have the greatest childhood 31:34 I think he got like his first present 31:39 I think is... what? his only present was like a bike 31:43 or something like that... 31:44 that was like one of his only presents 31:47 for his birthday or something like that 31:49 and it's not about material things 31:51 but there were other issues within the family 31:53 but when I came... when I broke out into the world 31:58 in... well... we won't say the year... 32:01 but when I broke out into the world, 32:04 my dad gave me what his father didn't give him, 32:11 you know, we don't... we don't say, 32:14 "I love you" and stuff like that a lot 32:17 but I can tell by his actions that he loves me. 32:21 My mother and father got divorced when I was... 32:25 what? five or six? Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 32:27 and when I was about five or six... 32:29 of course, as a kid, I didn't understand that, 32:31 I wasn't happy about it at first 32:34 but then I grew to like it for selfish reasons 32:36 I had two places to go... two sets of gifts 32:38 and my dad wasn't in the church, 32:43 he wasn't an Adventist and so, it was different, 32:47 it was different, he was the "fun parent" 32:50 Yvonne: Thanks a lot. 32:51 Jason: Well, you were fun but... 32:53 Yvonne: No, I really wasn't as much fun as your dad was. 32:55 I had different rules in the house. 32:58 Yeah, you did... and he had rules but it was different, 33:01 so, I got... 33:03 you ended up getting re-married when I was... 33:06 going into like the fifth grade, 33:09 but one thing that really stood out that my dad's done... 33:13 is... when we moved to Texas, I threw a temper tantrum, 33:18 I was throwing things, 33:19 I was so hurt because I wanted my dad there, 33:23 my dad uprooted his whole life and moved to Texas 33:26 to finish raising me and I mean that is so... 33:29 I was the only reason why he moved there 33:33 and for me... that just... that showed me how much 33:37 he loves me and I hope that when I grow... 33:41 well, I'm grown up now 33:44 but when I grow and become a father, 33:47 if that's God's will... that I can be like him in that sense. 33:54 Yeah, it means a lot to know... 33:58 for your children to know 34:00 that you really love them, that you really care about them 34:04 and you show them, not just by what you say 34:06 but by the time that you've spent 34:08 and that's what you guys talk about too 34:10 on: A Father's Heart. 34:12 The time that you spend in... and you give tips and strategies 34:17 let's talk about the importance of the father in the home 34:20 because even if... again, in Jay's case... 34:24 his Dad wasn't... we weren't together 34:26 but we were friends enough for me to say, 34:29 "Come, come down here, 34:31 Jason really needs you it's fine with me," 34:34 I knew his dad wasn't going to interfere in my life, so... 34:37 And you never talked bad about dad to me 34:40 and he's never talked bad about you to me 34:42 and that's important too. 34:45 Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, and I praise the Lord for that. 34:47 You know, it's important that we don't 34:49 put our children in the middle and make them "pawns" 34:53 you know, just because you and the spouse 34:58 or significant other didn't make it, 35:00 you don't put the child in the middle 35:02 but we have a crisis in our communities today, 35:08 we have a crisis of not... of having absentee fathers 35:14 it blows my mind that all the media pushes sex 35:21 it pushes: have sex, do this, do that, 35:24 but it's not talking about the babies 35:26 that you're going to be siring, 35:29 you know, it's one thing... 35:31 you're not a man or a woman because you can procreate, 35:35 because you can have a child, 35:37 you are a real man or a real woman 35:40 when you parent, that's... you know... 35:42 and in our communities, we are missing fathers, 35:46 let's talk about the effect of that... 35:50 not just in the family but on the community at large, 35:53 what do you think Pastor Denry? 35:54 I mean... it's... it's... the turning point in my life 35:57 was about four years ago, 36:00 I picked up the phone, my dad was calling me, 36:03 I actually called him, my stepfather... 36:05 and the first time in my life, he said, "Hello, Son... " 36:11 Yvonne: Hmmm... 36:12 My stepfather always referred to me as, "Young man" 36:15 and... I mean... this was only four years ago 36:19 and that was a turning point in my life to hear that... 36:23 remember I said that I dealt with rejection 36:25 and even though he raised me most of my life, 36:27 I always felt that he never accepted me as his own 36:31 and so, when he said that, 36:33 that just blew me away... 36:35 I called my wife like... after... and like... 36:38 "My dad called me 'son'" so I can imagine like 36:42 kids in the communities who never hear that... 36:45 if it meant something to me at... 36:48 a few years ago... and I'm an adult man, married, 36:52 have my children, could you imagine what it means 36:56 to these kids who've never heard that? 36:58 If they can just hear their father 37:00 call them "son" or "daughter... " 37:02 I mean, that would just like... do some... good... 37:05 I mean other people have called your son, whatever, 37:08 you try to have mentors... that means something to us, 37:11 that title means... 37:13 that's like the best title you can have 37:15 for your parent to call you what you are to them. 37:19 And so, by reaching to our communities and mentoring 37:23 or whatever we can do, stepping in sometimes as fathers 37:26 because we have some experience 37:28 and maybe... we can't replace the father 37:30 but just being a mentor and let them know... you know... 37:33 you are God's son, you are God's daughter, 37:36 I believe that will just give them this boost 37:40 like it did for me because from that point, 37:42 things that had been going to rejection... 37:45 and all of that... to just going... 37:47 things have been going good for me 37:49 Yvonne: Praise the Lord, that's great, 37:51 just by calling you "son. " 37:54 Denry: That's it... that's all I wanted to hear, all these years. 37:56 Did you tell him how much it meant to you? 38:00 I kept it... I kept... I guess I just kept it... 38:03 it was some... a joy that I just had to share 38:05 but I need to tell him, I do need to tell him... 38:07 I think it would be interesting, 38:09 I think it would be interesting to see how he responds 38:12 to your letting him know how much it meant to you. 38:15 Because I was forced to call him "daddy" 38:18 because I used to call him by his name 38:21 and my mother was like... 38:22 "He's going to be around for a while could you call him daddy?" 38:26 I was like... ten years' old, 38:28 I was like, "He's not my dad though" 38:29 and mom said, "Could you call him daddy?" 38:31 I said, "Okay, I'll call him daddy. " 38:32 But now, when I call him daddy, 38:35 that's my dad... he's my dad... 38:37 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... 38:39 I think that a lot of times the men out there... 38:44 they're struggling with the past 38:48 so they can't even reach out to their own children, 38:51 and we don't look at that angle, 38:53 I know, my dad meant well, I know, for him, 38:57 is... provide... I've got to provide... 39:01 and I have the same kind of makeup... I've got to provide... 39:04 but I have a balance through education, 39:09 through reading... knowledge, just get a balance, 39:11 because I know, "Yes, I have to provide... 39:13 but, I have to still spend time" 39:16 my son... now he's 19... 39:18 my daughter is 16... 39:20 and we have such an open relationship in our home, 39:24 they can come, they can talk 39:26 and I'll be in my office in the middle of a sermon 39:29 and this is about 11:30 39:32 and my son will knock on the office door 39:35 I'd say, "Come on in... " 39:36 and that's the time he wants to sit down and talk 39:38 and you know when you're in the middle of... 39:41 you're absorbed... you're in the Word... 39:43 and guess what I do? I stop... 39:46 I stop... he'll sit there in my chair 39:50 and we'll just talk about whatever he wants to talk about 39:54 until it's time for him to 39:56 just feel... "Okay dad, I'm gone. " 39:59 That's what's needed for fathers... 40:01 we need to just be able to spend time with them 40:05 and listen to them because I realized 40:07 from the time he was born until age 19... time went so fast, 40:12 it just disappeared and I realized that sooner or later, 40:17 he's going to be out of the home, 40:18 my daughter's going to be out of the home, 40:20 so I'm going to invest all the time 40:24 that I possibly can with him, 40:27 because I don't want him to... to have the same feelings 40:32 or the same things that I went through, 40:34 I'm trying to protect him from that. 40:36 One thing that my dad did with us... is that 40:39 every year we would get in the car... 40:41 we would drive 60 to 70 miles 40:44 to our other family home 40:47 and that is something that is still within me. 40:51 It's amazing how some of the things that you 40:54 you used to do with your father, it's amazing how it just sticks. 40:59 As, every now and again... 41:01 I like to take these long road trips 41:03 but my wife doesn't like the car, 41:05 so it doesn't balance up, 41:08 I got into the car and said, "Okay, we're going to Arizona, 41:11 we're going from Michigan all the way to Arizona... " 41:13 I had the best time 41:15 but they didn't have such a good time... 41:17 I was re-living my childhood and I was just having a good time, 41:24 because... it was a time where I felt close to my father 41:29 you know, we just had a good time 41:30 but I think to spending time is crucial, 41:34 I think we need to encourage our fathers to spend time, 41:39 it's okay to stop what you're doing 41:42 and let them know that they're important. 41:44 You said a key word, "Balance... " 41:48 now there are a lot of fathers at home that don't know... 41:50 maybe... how to have that balance, 41:53 what advice would you give them 41:56 to be able to balance raising their kids? 42:00 Well, the advice I'll give them is that... first of all... 42:03 you have to understand that they're important, 42:05 they're first in your life, I mean... besides God, 42:09 then, they're first 42:10 and, I think, be able to understand that 42:14 and know that whenever they want to have a conversation 42:18 or just play... stop what you're doing 42:20 but yet it's going to only take them about 10 to 15 minutes... 42:24 I noticed that with children, 10 to 15 minutes... 42:28 30 minutes... and they're gone... 42:30 they're off to the next thing 42:31 so now you can resume your regular activities, 42:34 don't think that they're going to be there forever 42:36 and you can't do what you need to, 42:38 so, you have to be able to find that balance though 42:40 a little time for my children 42:41 and a little time where I can get back to work 42:44 or do what I need to do. Yvonne: Hmmm... 42:45 I think too, one of the things... 42:48 going back to what Pastor Denry and Jason talked about, 42:51 you know my four-year-old comes from a divorced home, 42:54 my ex-wife and I are not together, 42:56 I'm remarried to Brittany, we talked about it, 42:59 we have a new-born baby and everything 43:01 and it was important 43:03 as a lot of times, parents get divorced 43:06 and their fathers divorce the kids at the same time. 43:08 Yvonne: Hmmm... a very good point. 43:09 To me it's like... and it's not easy... 43:12 but you know what? 43:13 Just because you two couldn't work out your issues on things 43:16 just... they didn't happen 43:18 because that's not the way God intended, 43:20 doesn't mean you can't get along, 43:21 you're adults to your children and we have a dynamic in which 43:26 yeah, you have your bad times and good times 43:29 but your children feel it even if they don't see it. 43:32 They feel it and for me... it's critical that I maintain a 43:35 good co-parental relationship with my ex-wife 43:38 and my wife now, she knows that 43:40 and she helps me through that too 43:42 we pray for me and we pray together 43:44 and we pray for her as well, and you know, 43:46 my daughter is pretty much... my wife's daughter too. 43:50 There's no step-parent, step-parent, 43:54 step-daughter relationship, that's her daughter as well, 43:56 they love each other, they spend time together, 43:58 when our newborn was born, I was like, 44:01 "Can you take her for a little bit 44:02 so I can spend time with Andrea 44:04 for a little bit, that's my four-year-old... 44:07 spend time a little bit with her, 44:09 so that way we can bond" and to me that was... 44:14 to me that's important 44:15 and just getting along and just being there, 44:17 my dad taught me... like I said, 44:20 "No matter how tired you are, 44:22 you always spend time with your kids" 44:23 and sometimes I come home from a full day of work 44:27 and I'm exhausted, I mean, I'm worn out, 44:30 and I pick up my four-year-old from school 44:33 and I... she'll be like, 44:34 "Daddy, can I go and eat some sushi?" 44:36 Because she likes sushi, the avocado rolls, 44:39 so we go... and we go get some sushi 44:42 and we sit down and we talk, 44:43 we always make time in our household to talk to our kids, 44:47 and to listen, even though she's four, 44:49 even though the newborn is a newborn... two months' old, 44:52 they talk to us and we listen 44:55 and we want to dedicate and build the time with them now 45:00 and spend time with them... and always... 45:02 it's difficult for me because they're girls 45:04 and it's like... my daughter... 45:06 my oldest one wants to play dress-up or tiara and I'm like 45:10 "Mmmm... I don't want to play that... but okay... " 45:13 she puts a little tiara on my head and I'm like, 45:15 "All right... what do we do now?" 45:16 You know, sometimes, I've grabbed the kitchen chairs 45:21 and blankets and made a princess castle for her 45:24 and just put her over the TV so she has a... 45:27 a big-screen TV... right there... 45:29 a TV and princess castle all together... 45:31 we order pizza and the whole family... 45:33 we just sit under the... my wife is like... 45:35 "You're going to have to clean this up" 45:36 I'm like... "No problem," 45:38 we sit underneath the little castle, 45:41 we have a sleepover and we eat pizza 45:43 and we just sit there and watch her movies that she likes 45:45 and... you know... it doesn't take a lot... 45:49 they don't expect you... the expectations they have 45:53 for you as a father and that you feel 45:55 only come from outside, 45:57 the expectations that they have for you are very minimal, 46:00 they just want you to be there and I remember listening to 46:04 two young girls talking about it, 46:05 in the University, they were talking about... 46:09 one of them was talking about how her parents were divorced 46:11 and all she wanted to do was... for her dad... just to call her 46:14 or send her a letter or something 46:16 and to me... that's critical... just to be there for my child 46:21 and make sure that she knows she's loved 46:23 and mom... even though mom and dad are not together 46:26 they both love her and they can be there for her 46:29 and that's just critical for me to make sure I do that. 46:32 And what you're doing is... you're making memories 46:35 with your children, things that... 46:38 just like your trip with your dad 46:40 has been in your heart all of these years 46:43 you want to do that with your kids 46:46 you want to create memories 46:48 so that they have something to draw from 46:50 later in life and I just think that's so beautiful. 46:53 So I'm going to get back to my original question again 46:55 why is a father important? 46:59 why can't it just be the mother... 47:01 mother... I mean... the dad's not there 47:03 and then... why does a father need to have input 47:07 into the children's lives? 47:09 When you look at... 47:11 I worked in Mental Health in a juvenile facility, 47:15 and most of them... if not all of them... 47:18 had some kind of problem with the father 47:21 father wasn't there, father was deceased, 47:24 father was in prison, father was also in gangs, 47:28 father was abusive to the mom, 47:30 most of the conversations I had with them 47:33 were their fathers... 47:35 and it's interesting how God designed the Bible 47:40 I mean, God is... He is God 47:43 and He chooses to play the father 47:48 you know, he could have said something else, 47:51 but he chooses a father, and I really believe 47:55 that... because He's all-knowing and knows the future, 47:59 He knew that there would be a problem with the male figures 48:02 in our Society and so... therefore, He says, 48:07 "Look, I will step in and be that father now... 48:11 so point them to me and I will repair the damage" 48:15 you know, but you've talked to everyone, 48:17 even perfect homes, they'll say, 48:20 "Yeah, my father was good... " whatever... 48:21 but they'd want more 48:25 and you look at Mother's and Father's Day, 48:28 we give our mothers accolades, we love them, 48:31 we give all the flowers, 48:32 we were talking the other day about... in prison 48:36 how on Mother's Days... every phone is full... 48:40 there are lines for phones, 48:41 but for Father's Day... 48:42 you can hear almost like a cricket making noise, 48:46 and so there's a serious void from... problem with the father. 48:49 I do think the father is important 48:52 because we see God through the eyes of our earthly father 48:57 and that's just 48:59 how we see God 49:01 but when we have a problem with our earthly father 49:04 we see God the same way, 49:05 there's a... then... direct relationship 49:09 between the Heavenly Father and the earthly father 49:13 so fathers are important, they're the anchor for the home, 49:16 mothers are the nourishers 49:18 so fathers are important in the home 49:21 to anchor that family, 49:23 fathers are the priests of the home 49:25 they're the ones that are responsible 49:27 for taking their children to the Lord 49:30 and praying for them without that... 49:33 in the home... we will lose our children 49:36 so it's very, very important for us to have fathers in the home 49:40 then there needs to be 49:43 some kind of understanding 49:45 in our male generation that they're important. 49:48 I don't think they're important... 49:49 they've been devalued so much that they feel 49:54 that they're no longer important 49:56 but they are important... they need to be known, 49:59 they need to stand up and be fathers 50:01 instead of allowing the mothers to be fathers and mothers 50:07 and what has happened in Society 50:09 because of sin and because of all the other things, 50:12 mothers have taken the role of fathers 50:15 so the boys are now... no longer... 50:18 have that strength that a father should have, 50:22 that gentleness also that a father should have 50:25 because they're now all... mothers have been raised by moms 50:30 so that's the... there's no balance... yes... 50:34 And that is a major point 50:36 because one of the things that I'm seeing as a woman... 50:39 and I look across a field of young men... 50:43 who have not had their fathers in their lives... 50:47 they take on a role of, 50:50 "You as the woman... should support me... 50:53 you as the woman should take care of me, 50:57 I'm going to sit here and play my video games 51:00 while you go out to work... because that's what mom did... " 51:02 so, it's... it's... they have no idea of what the role of the man 51:07 is to be... the provider... and the... you know... 51:10 people will probably blow about me saying that this is a... 51:14 there might blow about me saying that 51:16 "man should be the provider" because I believe in roles... 51:19 Pastor: Yes, some people will say that... 51:22 It is... it is... but it's not politically correct 51:24 and so... but I do... I do... feel that... 51:28 the role of the man has been so played down 51:32 into this dependent kind of thing 51:35 where the man should be independent 51:37 and should be the one that is out there... 51:40 he should come home to this haven... 51:43 Yes, it should be a little piece of heaven 51:47 but I think with the roles getting confused 51:51 and all that stuff... 51:52 I think that sometimes you have 51:54 really independent women who... it's like when 51:59 the roles get so confused on both sides too... 52:05 and going back to being in a home with no father, 52:11 you miss out on the interaction that a man should have 52:14 with his wife and how he should treat a woman 52:18 and if it's a little girl... she is missing out on seeing 52:22 how she should be treated by a man 52:25 and that's... that's... crucial, that's crucial... 52:29 It's actually interesting too because not only does the 52:33 girl miss out on how a man should treat her 52:36 but she also misses out on how she should treat her husband 52:39 which is critical... it's a two-way street 52:44 and I know we live in a Society in which 52:48 we have strong women and... 52:50 but there was a reason why God took Eve out of the side of Adam 52:54 to bring that journey together, 52:58 there are a lot of women around walking with a missing rib 53:02 and these girls are learning the wrong things to do, 53:07 the men are learning the wrong things to do 53:08 and they're just creating chaos 53:10 over one simple little thing which is, 53:13 "Take responsibility and be there" 53:16 you don't have to be perfect, there are no manuals, 53:20 you don't know what to do but that's okay. 53:22 There's a heavenly Father who can teach you what to do 53:25 step by step... 53:27 And there are programs too out there... 53:31 I know... I've been in touch with 53:34 the Brother from Fathers Incorporated... 53:37 I mean... there are all kinds of programs 53:40 and resources out there for people who want to know more 53:44 and I know you guys are going to be doing some things 53:47 in the communities and in the churches and all 53:50 to help men who want to be better fathers. 53:53 Speaking of A Father's Heart, 53:55 tell us what we can expect from this Season. 53:58 Reality... no holding back... no sugar coating... 54:03 you're going to see three broken men 54:06 who don't really know how to be fathers 54:10 but yet we rely on the Heavenly Father 54:13 and we also rely on each other for fathering strategies 54:17 stepping out of the... 54:19 "we can't share our emotions as men... " but we can 54:23 and share strategies through talking and 54:25 we learn how to make each other better fathers as a group. 54:29 That's good... what do you think about this season coming? 54:33 I think the season is a great thing that we can actually 54:37 talk so openly, I think, 54:38 this is the biggest counseling team for me 54:42 I have given birth to things that I don't talk about 54:47 and I thank God that they're here to listen 54:51 I'm hoping and praying that 54:53 people will be impacted in such a way 54:56 that they can just breath... exhale... 54:59 and all the things that have been holding them back 55:02 from being the best possible father 55:04 this season is going to be a great season. 55:07 I know lives are going to be changed 55:10 and I know God is going to just... 55:12 because there's such realness, well... it's real... 55:15 what you see is what you get. 55:17 What do you think, Denry? 55:20 I believe, we're going to reveal the secret manual 55:23 that there is a manual but He is a person... 55:26 and He's God the Father and He's full of love, 55:30 He's full of guidance, He's full of wisdom 55:33 and we can use Him even if you didn't have an example 55:37 you can look at Him as an example 55:39 and trust me... the rewards in your children 55:43 are going to be beyond the atmosphere 55:45 because He's so loving, 55:47 so I'm looking forward to this season. 55:50 Yeah... what do you think Jay... you've had a chance to sit in 55:54 on the tapings of A Father's Heart, 55:58 what do you think... as a potential father? 56:00 Well, I don't know... we'll see... 56:02 Pastor: Kind of scared him... 56:06 Yvonne: Yeah, I know, he looks a little nervous. 56:08 I mean that's a huge responsibility 56:10 but I think that... what our Viewers can expect 56:14 from this program is so much wonderful information, 56:17 things that may be they have never experienced 56:21 themselves due to the absence of a father... 56:24 they can expect to see 56:26 you guys being very open and transparent 56:29 and being vulnerable and sharing with them 56:33 the difficulties that you went through 56:36 and how you were able to overcome that 56:39 and how that translated into your raising of your children. 56:44 It's such a great Series, 56:49 I can't wait for our Viewers to watch it. 56:51 It was worth the wait, I have to say that 56:54 all these years we've been trying to get it going... 56:58 and finally it's here... A Father's Heart is here 57:01 and I want to thank you for all that you're doing 57:05 for A Father's Heart 57:07 and all that you're going to be doing 57:10 because I know you're going to be getting into the Community 57:12 so Viewers... you have to make sure that you tune in... 57:15 this is going to be a tremendous blessing. 57:18 Pastor: Amen. 57:19 That interview nearly brought me to tears. 57:23 You'll really enjoy this program 57:25 so watch the schedule for when it airs 57:27 if you have any questions or to contact these dads directly, 57:31 please e-mail them at: afh@3abn. org 57:36 that's: afh@3abn. org 57:39 what a blessing they are, 57:43 how transparent they were, how authentic they are 57:47 and when you watch these programs, 57:49 you'll be able to see for yourself 57:51 that they know they don't have all the answers 57:53 but they know that Jesus is the answer 57:56 and that He will lead them through. 57:58 Well, thank you so much for joining us, 58:00 join us next time because you know what? 58:03 It just wouldn't be the same without you. |
Revised 2016-05-25