Participants:
Series Code: LTBW
Program Code: LTBW000020A
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00:35 Hi, I'm Dr. Kim.
00:37 And welcome to, Live To Be Well. 00:40 Learning to forgive. 00:41 My special guest, Chaz Keys, welcome. 00:45 - Thank you. - How you doing? 00:46 I'm doing good. Thank you for having me. 00:48 I appreciate you being here. 00:53 I've been by your side. 00:56 I remember the first day I met you... 01:00 ...and walking into my office never knowing 01:05 what you were going to say to me. 01:08 Can you tell me and tell our viewers 01:12 what happened in your life? 01:15 I lost my daughter due to an accidental drowning. 01:21 I'd just came back in town and I was tired. 01:25 I fell asleep. 01:27 My oldest daughter woke me up and she said she had 01:32 urinated herself. 01:33 So I started the shower and she got in. 01:37 And while I was waiting on her, I changed 01:39 the 18 month baby's diaper. 01:43 We played a little while and she laid down. 01:46 I assumed she was asleep, I ended up falling asleep. 01:49 And then some time later my oldest daughter 01:52 woke me up, and she said, "Mommy, I think my 01:55 sister is dead in the bath tub." 01:57 So at that point I had immediately got up. 02:01 I ran to the bathroom and I tried to resuscitate. 02:06 And I had my daughter get my phone so I could call 911. 02:12 They immediately sent the ambulance and the firemen. 02:16 We got to the hospital and they had her on a machine for hours, 02:20 but they still couldn't revive her, so. 02:23 - How old was she? - She was 18 months. 02:25 18 months. And what was her name? 02:26 Nia. 02:29 I remember hearing the story on the news, 02:33 not knowing my phone would ring and I would be asked 02:37 to take over this case. 02:39 What happened after that period of time 02:42 when they told you, you know, they could not revive her? 02:46 What happened to you emotionally and legally? 02:51 I was devastated. 02:54 I couldn't even... 02:58 Half of the things I don't even remember that particular night 03:01 because I was just in a zone. 03:03 It felt like I was in a dream, or something. 03:05 But that particular night they took me to 03:09 the police station for questioning. 03:12 And they had also sent Child Protective Services 03:15 down where they would also question my daughter. 03:18 And then they ended up taking my oldest daughter from me. 03:21 - They took your daughter? - They took her from me. 03:24 - That night? - That same night. 03:26 Your baby girl drowns accidentally. 03:29 Then they take your... 03:31 How old was your oldest daughter? 03:32 - Four. - And they took her. 03:34 So you lost both your daughters in one night. 03:35 - Same night. - Okay. 03:37 And it was a hard thing to deal with. 03:41 I didn't know, you know... 03:44 I didn't know what to do at that point. 03:46 Because prior, you had been a great mom. 03:48 Absolutely. 03:50 I've seen videos, I've seen pictures. 03:52 You never abused your daughters. 03:54 There was never a Child Protective Service case on you. 03:58 No one filed charges on you. 04:00 And all of a sudden both your children. 04:03 My world came down. 04:05 Then what happened? 04:07 I had appointments with Child Protective Service. 04:13 They basically gave me a breakdown of what would happen 04:16 as far as how long they thought they may need 04:19 to keep her, and you know, things that I need to do 04:23 to get ready for the court date. 04:25 And once I started going to court they were giving me 04:29 threats, like she's going to be permanently 04:32 removed out of the home. 04:34 Who gave you threats? 04:36 It was the assistant prosecutor for the state, 04:41 if I'm not mistaken, and... 04:47 How did it make you feel when they were 04:48 threatening you like that? 04:52 You know how you just sit back and you question, 04:54 like, why is everything happening to me? 04:56 It's like, you think it'll get better, 04:58 and then things just get worse every day. 05:01 Everything in my life just got worse. 05:03 And it never improved. 05:06 It never improved. 05:08 It was just, it was a hard battle. 05:12 When were you able to see Lilly, your oldest daughter? 05:15 When were you able to see her? 05:16 Well when my daughter died, they kept her in my mother's home 05:22 for about a week and a half before I could see her again. 05:25 So then after that, after court they allowed me to 05:30 do home visits every day. 05:31 I just had to leave by a certain time. 05:34 I wasn't able to stay overnight. 05:35 She couldn't go anywhere with me. 05:38 You know, so. 05:39 So it was always supervised visits. 05:41 - Absolutely. - With your own child. 05:43 Only my mom or my stepfather. 05:47 Can I go back to something? 05:49 When your daughter awakened you and said, 05:52 "Mommy, I think Nia is dead," you jumped up. 05:56 Because she was lying... Where was she? 05:59 Was she lying on you or next to you? 06:00 She was lying right next to me. 06:02 And she got up, and you never felt her get up? 06:05 Never felt her get up. 06:06 You know, were you extremely tired? 06:09 I was tired. 06:10 - Were you using drugs? - No. 06:13 - Alcohol? - No. 06:16 Had you been out all night? Were you at work? 06:18 I worked all day. I came home. 06:21 We all fell asleep about maybe 9:30 that evening. 06:25 Then my daughter, the four year old, woke me up 06:28 around midnight saying that she had urinated herself. 06:32 So at that point, you know, I always allowed her to, 06:37 you know, shower alone. 06:39 She always called me when she's finished so I can 06:41 turn off the water and everything. 06:42 But that particular night she never called me 06:46 until it was too late. 06:48 So okay, help me to understand. 06:50 So your baby girl gets up, she goes into the bathroom, 06:55 she gets into the tub. 06:57 So your daughter was taking a shower. 06:59 But the drain was closed and there was water 07:03 that remained in the tub. 07:04 Yes. 07:05 And so the baby climbed into the tub, and evidently 07:10 fell, hit her head? 07:12 Did they ever say there were any injuries? 07:13 It was not any injuries outside of maybe the chest strains, 07:18 and probably was from me doing the CPR. 07:21 But as far as the bathtub goes, later on my daughter told me 07:25 that she was just trying to give her baby sister a bubble bath. 07:29 So you know, the stopping of the tub and the way everything 07:34 happened, it was just an innocent thing that she did. 07:39 So your oldest daughter was trying to bathe her. 07:40 Yes. 07:42 And could not hold her or support her. 07:43 She said that the baby was too heavy for her to pick up. 07:47 She tried to pick her up. 07:48 Had she ever tried to bathe her before? 07:50 No. 07:52 Hmm, okay. 07:53 So in all of this, your daughter, 07:57 how has she been doing? 08:00 She's been up and down. 08:04 Right now her behavior is out of control. 08:10 She has her moments. 08:11 Sometimes she cries saying she misses her sister. 08:14 It was hard for her, especially when she was 08:17 at my mother's house. 08:18 She was out of my home for four months. 08:20 So being over there with my mother and my stepdad, 08:24 she would cry day and night for me and for her sister. 08:28 So it was very hard for her. 08:32 You know, and it was only so much that I could do. 08:36 I remember getting, during this process, a text from you. 08:43 That you had taken some pills and you just wanted to die. 08:49 You wanted to take your life. 08:51 - I did. - Why? 08:55 I believe it was just the stress, the pressure, the... 09:03 It felt like I had no reason to live. 09:07 I felt like everything in my life was just going bad. 09:11 And the only way that I could feel better 09:15 is by taking my own life. 09:16 So that way I wouldn't have to feel any more of the pain. 09:20 - Just wanted to be numb. - I just wanted to be numb. 09:23 And what happened after you took all the pills? 09:26 I didn't die. 09:28 Well you didn't die, praise God, alright. 09:30 But were you taken to the hospital? 09:32 Did you go to the hospital? 09:33 Did you have to have your stomach pumped? 09:35 What happened? 09:36 You know what? 09:38 During the time I took it, and it took me a long time 09:45 to even let anyone know what was going on. 09:50 But I took it and I laid in my bed, 09:54 and I started reading the Bible. 09:57 And I started asking for forgiveness, "Lord, I'm sorry. 10:01 I can't believe I just did this. 10:03 Why would I do something like this? 10:05 I'm sorry." 10:06 I cried, I cried. 10:08 And you know, I have a friend that she was concerned, 10:12 and she's like, "I'm coming right now. 10:14 If you don't give me your address 10:15 I'm calling the police on you." 10:16 And I was like, "Please don't call the police. 10:19 You know, just let me die slow." 10:20 And she's like, "No, I'm coming." 10:22 So she came and she took everything out of my house. 10:28 I felt so robbed, and she cussed me out, 10:31 and she did a lot of things that day for me. 10:34 But all in all, as much as I took, 10:38 I wasn't suppose to live after that. 10:42 - But God had a purpose. - Absolutely. 10:44 And what I took, one of them will put you out 10:49 for at least 12 or 13 hours. 10:51 - I took six. - You took six. 10:54 And I couldn't sleep. 10:56 I couldn't sleep. 10:58 And I remember talking with you, and praying with you, 11:01 and asking you to go to the hospital. 11:04 I pleaded with you. 11:06 And you cried. 11:07 And I got on my knees and I prayed. 11:10 And I said, "God is with you." 11:13 And prior to that, you know, meeting with me, 11:17 and to God be the glory, you have grown spiritually. 11:22 And I know little miss Lilly, she's something else. 11:26 And I've had to have you to leave the session 11:30 because I didn't want you to... 11:31 Ooh, the little girl. 11:33 But she's hurting. 11:34 She's confused. 11:36 She misses her sister. 11:37 Can you imagine being an adult and you're missing your child, 11:41 and you're trying to process all this. 11:43 Let alone a four year old. 11:46 How does she even begin to process this? 11:48 And let me tell you one day what she said 11:50 to me in therapy. 11:51 And I said, "Lilly, can you tell me what happened 11:55 at the funeral?" 11:56 And she turned and looked at me, and she said, 11:58 "Didn't we go through this last week?" 12:01 And I said, "Well, I can't find my notes." 12:04 She said, "Well, you need to get your 12:06 notes and write this down. 12:08 Because I'm going through this again, alright?" 12:11 So she said, "Now I was at the funeral. 12:14 My sister wore white. 12:15 She had pony tails. 12:17 And some of the relatives were, you know, 12:21 walking up towards her. 12:22 I was sitting down. 12:24 You know, I was sad, I was upset, I was hurt. 12:27 I'm going to miss my sister. 12:29 And they closed the casket. 12:33 And I sat back down. 12:35 Did you get all that?" 12:36 I mean, four years old. 12:39 She called it a going away party. 12:40 And she called it a going away party. 12:42 I was nervous. I said, "Okay." 12:44 Now because she said to me, 12:46 "We are not going through this again in therapy." 12:49 So every time when she comes in for her sessions, 12:52 you know, we sit down, and we didn't have to 12:55 go through that anymore. 12:56 And so lately dealing with her behavior, 13:00 dealing with understanding her loss, her pain, 13:04 and trying to help her to process, 13:05 finding the right words and tools. 13:08 So how do you deal with her? 13:10 Because I know you have concerns about Child Protective Services. 13:15 - You can't just spank her. - I can't. 13:17 You know, because they are keeping a close eye on you. 13:21 So what and how do you discipline her 13:24 when she acts out? 13:25 Well since she's so addicted to television and cell phones 13:29 and tablets and computers, and things, 13:32 I just take it all away. 13:33 - At four years old, addicted. - At four years old, addicted. 13:36 So you think a lot of that happened when she was at 13:38 your mother and father's for those four months? 13:40 - Absolutely. - They let her have her way. 13:42 Yeah she, you know, in a sense they felt bad for her. 13:46 So they wanted to give her anything that would 13:48 satisfy her need. 13:50 And cell phones here heavily used. 13:54 Have you seen her pull at her skin or pull at her hair, 13:59 bite her nails? 14:00 Oh yeah. 14:01 Have you noticed anything where she's urinating in the bed? 14:05 Has she started any of that? - No. - None of that. 14:08 But you've noticed some of the other behaviors. 14:11 And you know, we've talked about that also. 14:13 So you have to keep a close eye, because she is 14:17 trying to divert the pain. 14:19 So if I can just continue to pick at my skin, 14:22 pull on my hair, bite my nails, even to the point where 14:26 they're bleeding, I don't have to think about 14:29 the real pain of losing my baby sister. 14:32 How many times have you laid awake at night, 14:36 you know, I know it's numerous, 14:38 and you know, cried out for your baby? 14:41 I spent months doing it. I still do it. 14:44 ~ You still do it. - I still do it. 14:46 You have pictures of her up? 14:47 I have pictures. I have a whole stand. 14:52 I have a lot of things that I can go to 14:55 and just get my relief. 14:57 It's just all a relief. 14:59 You know, what was really difficult about this situation 15:02 was, it was three days I had only buried my husband, 15:08 three days, and I got a call to take on this case. 15:12 And I was like, no. 15:15 I buried my husband on a Thursday, 15:17 I get a call on Monday. 15:21 And I'm back in my office attending... 15:23 Because you came on a Sunday. 15:26 I mean, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. 15:29 I was here for you Sunday. 15:31 Two days later. 15:33 I was like, "Can I have a moment? 15:37 Can I just have a minute to even morn my own husband? 15:41 To grieve, to take care of my children?" 15:43 And I could really hear the Lord say, "Arthur... it's done. 15:49 You must go and do My work." 15:51 And I was like, "Really, Lord?" 15:53 And I got to my office here, and I made sure I was 15:58 here before you got here. 16:00 And I'm like, I don't want to do this. 16:03 I'm dealing with a death. 16:06 That's all I was told. 16:08 But God kept saying to me, "You need to do this. 16:12 You need to do this." 16:13 And I want you to know, during the process of helping you 16:17 it has helped me. 16:18 Because when you said all that you said to me, 16:21 I said, "Well I want you to know something. 16:23 Two days ago I laid my husband to rest." 16:26 I remember. 16:28 And I said, "So we can get through this. 16:31 We can get through this together and help each other." 16:35 And sometimes as you would sit there and talk about your baby 16:38 I just wanted to break down and cry. 16:40 But I could not do that because you needed me 16:43 to be strong and to make sure that my focus, 16:48 my purpose, making sure that I helped you 16:53 to transition, and most of all to Jesus Christ. 16:57 Because that was a missing component in your life. 17:01 Because you didn't know I was a Christian therapist 17:03 when you were given my number. 17:06 - You did not know. - I didn't. 17:08 And I said, "Well, she's going to come." 17:11 And then you made another appointment. 17:13 And another, and another. 17:15 And we are still here together. 17:17 And when I asked you to do the program, you were like, "Mmm." 17:22 And I said, "So many people will be blessed by your story, 17:26 you know, of your courage, and also your pain." 17:30 So what... How can I say this? 17:36 Have you been to the cemetery to visit her grave? 17:40 Well I had her cremated. 17:42 - You had her cremated. - Yeah. 17:43 And I actually still have her ashes in the box on the 17:48 dresser where I keep all of her other things. 17:51 Like all of her first toys and favorite toys, 17:55 and things like that, so. 17:57 Why do you hold on to those things, you know? 18:00 Because I have my special things I have of Arthur. 18:03 Why do you hold on to those special things? 18:08 It's basically a reminder when she was here. 18:12 Sometimes I might make the toys make the noise 18:15 so I can feel like she's in the room with me. 18:16 Or like certain hats that she wore, I can go back 18:20 and smell the hat, and I'm like, "Oh," you know, so. 18:23 It's the memories of everything. 18:26 I know I can still smell Arthur's cologne in his 18:29 clothes or his closets. 18:31 Because I haven't gotten everything out yet. 18:33 But a lot of his things are still there. 18:36 And I remember, about two weeks later 18:40 I came home and I pulled everything out of our bedroom. 18:43 And I redecorated the entire room. 18:46 But I haven't been able to sleep in the room. 18:49 I walk past it and I go to a guest room. 18:52 I go to another room. 18:54 But I'll look in and I'll dust. 18:57 I'll straighten out things. 18:59 I will go and pull out things. 19:02 But, but, but this is my time. 19:06 And someone said to me, has anyone said this to you, 19:10 "You still grieving Arthur?" 19:12 ~ Oh yes. 19:13 "Girl, it's been eight months. You need to get over this." 19:16 - Oh yes. - You've heard that too? 19:19 How does that make you feel when someone says that to you? 19:22 It makes me angry. 19:25 I get angry because, you know, no one can tell me how I feel, 19:29 or how I'm supposed to feel, or what I'm supposed to do. 19:32 - Or how long. - Or how long. 19:34 Or, "Ah, you should be over it by now." 19:37 It's like, "You can't tell me that." 19:38 It might take me 50 years before I get over it. 19:41 If I ever do, you know. 19:43 So I can't stand when people say that. 19:46 And all I can do is say, "Pray for me." 19:50 - You know. - Yes, absolutely. 19:51 What about the big question, "How are you doing?" 19:54 When I hear that, I'm like, "Do you really 19:56 want to know that answer?" 19:57 And I say, "Day by day. One day at a time." 20:00 That's my answer for anyone who asks me that? 20:03 When someone asks me that, I'm just like, "I'm okay." 20:05 ~ You're okay. - I'm okay. 20:07 Even if I'm not, "I'm okay." 20:08 Alright, you're better than me. 20:10 Because I know I can't say, "I'm okay." 20:12 I say, "Pray for me." 20:15 "One day at a time." 20:17 "I have good days and I have better days." 20:20 That's what I say. 20:21 I learned that with my mom and her passing. 20:24 And someone said to me, "There will be good days 20:28 and there will be better days. 20:30 But there will be no bad days." 20:31 And I looked at the person. 20:33 "Because Jesus is soon to come. 20:35 And the trumpet shall sound, 20:37 and the dead in Christ shall rise first." 20:39 And I'm looking forward to the first resurrection 20:42 when we will all be gathered together 20:44 in the sky when Jesus comes. 20:46 Your relationship with God, you know, 20:50 do you lean on Him? 20:52 Do you pray? 20:53 I started doing it more after the death of my baby. 20:58 Before then, it was like in the back of my head, you know. 21:03 - He was somewhere back there. - Yeah. 21:04 It's like, I don't even think about it. 21:05 It's like, whatever. You know. 21:07 Doing your thing, but God didn't register. 21:09 Yeah, and I felt like, you know, this was my sign to start 21:14 putting Him right in front first before anything. 21:19 Do you think He was trying to punish you? 21:21 Do you think we serve a God that punishes us? 21:23 You know, at first I felt like I was being punished. 21:27 I felt like it was karma. 21:29 I felt like... 21:32 I don't know, I felt hate towards God, honestly. 21:36 You know, I hated Him. 21:38 I was like, it can't be a God 21:39 because God wouldn't do this to me. 21:41 - No, that's not right. - He wouldn't take a baby. 21:42 No, not my little angel. 21:44 She's, you know, she's just a little kid. 21:45 - And she's so innocent. - Yeah, right, yeah. 21:47 So I spent a lot of time hating God. 21:52 And it took me until I was going through the court process. 21:58 And I started saying, "You know, I'll try this little 22:01 prayer thing, God, and see if it works," you know. 22:03 And I did it. 22:05 And eventually things started to fall in place properly. 22:10 You know, my daughter died in my home, 22:12 so I didn't stay in the home after the event. 22:16 I lived in hotels, I stayed at family member's homes. 22:22 You know, it got to the point where I was like, 22:25 "I've got to get it together." 22:26 I came in here and you was like, "You've got to get it together." 22:28 And I said, "Yes, Ma'am." 22:30 - So did I really fuss? - Yes. 22:32 - Really? - You were on me hard. 22:35 - Really? - Yes. 22:36 I think what I was trying to get you to understand 22:39 is that we have to compose ourselves. 22:42 I needed you to compose yourself 22:44 so that I could understand what was going on. 22:47 And I just needed you to take a deep breath 22:50 and communicate with me what happened 22:53 so that I could get all the facts and be able to come up 22:57 with a treatment plan to be able to help you 23:00 and your daughter. 23:01 So from the bottom of my heart, I meant to fuss. 23:05 - No. - I know, I know. 23:07 You know, but look at you today. 23:09 I came a long way. 23:11 You've come a long way. 23:13 And it was one of the best decisions ever made: 23:16 to walk in my office and meet with you. 23:21 You are a precious, precious soul. 23:24 You belong to the Lord. He loves you. 23:26 And you are an outstanding mother. 23:28 I've seen you with your daughter. 23:29 We've walked out of this office 23:32 and we went on a little field trip. 23:34 And it was just beautiful. 23:36 She is just, it requires patience, forgiveness. 23:41 Do you blame her? 23:42 - In the beginning I did. - Did you? 23:45 I mean, even at the hospital when they were trying to 23:47 revive her, I'm like, "It's your fault. 23:49 Why didn't you wake me up? 23:50 You always wake me up. You always come get me." 23:54 You said this to your daughter? 23:55 I did. 23:57 - I did, and I, I felt like... - Emotions were high. 24:00 Oh, I was like, up the roof. 24:02 But I feel like, I thought at that time because I said all of 24:06 those things that's why they called Child Protective Service. 24:09 Because, I mean, I didn't care who was around. 24:11 It was like police around, the doctors, the nurses. 24:14 I didn't care, you know. 24:15 And I yelled at her and I blamed her. 24:18 And you know, even through the process 24:22 it was always a thought in the back of my head 24:24 like, she did it on purpose. 24:26 It was a sibling rivalry. 24:27 I felt like, you know, she knew what was going to happen. 24:30 But you know, in a sense I sat back and I said, 24:33 "You know, she's four. 24:34 She doesn't understand the concept of death and drowning. 24:38 You know, she probably wouldn't do anything like that." 24:40 - To hurt her sister. - Not to hurt her sister. 24:43 When you were giving your baby mouth to mouth resuscitation, 24:48 you were trying to revive her, 24:50 did you believe you could save her? 24:52 I was going to, I felt like supermom at that point. 24:55 I thought I was going to bring her back 24:57 and everything was going to be okay. 24:59 I would have took her to the hospital 25:00 after just to make sure. 25:01 And that would have been that. 25:03 I tried. I put my soul into it. 25:06 I was like, I'm going to get this baby to get up. 25:08 - But nothing happened. - Nothing happened. 25:11 You know, let's talk about when you went to the services. 25:16 Did you say anything at the services or did you just 25:20 sit through the whole service? 25:22 You know what, I got tested at the services. 25:24 It was a lady in there that just brought everything, 25:27 the fight in me that day. 25:29 I was like, uhh... 25:30 - Was she speaking or she was... - I was going to fight the lady. 25:32 I was going to fight the lady. 25:33 She was there as a guest? 25:34 She was there to attend another service. 25:40 And she was like, "I'm here to see my niece." 25:43 But she thought, for some odd reason, 25:45 that my baby was her niece. 25:47 But my baby was 18 months and her niece is 7 years old. 25:50 So I don't know how that mistake could have happened. 25:52 - Was she an older woman? - She was an older woman. 25:55 She may have been alcoholic or something. 25:57 But whatever the situation was, it was not pleasing. 26:02 So you had to just switch gears... 26:03 I had to switch gears. 26:05 ...and focus on what you were there to do. 26:06 I did. And you know, I was... 26:08 I thought I would be relieved after that part was over. 26:12 But it seemed like everything got worse. 26:15 I got better at one point, and then it's like it got worse. 26:19 Then it got better. It was back and forth a lot. 26:22 But I learned to stay busy. 26:27 I think staying busy really helped me 26:30 get through a lot of it. 26:32 Oh, most definitely. 26:33 I think it's important that you be pro-active. 26:38 That we don't sit back and wallow in our pain 26:41 and have pity parties. 26:42 Now when you go through something like this, 26:45 you have a right to be... 26:49 Well I'm just going to say this. 26:50 I had a little pity party for myself. 26:53 I missed my Arthur. I wanted him there. 26:57 But what really hurt me the most was the phone calls stopped, 27:06 the cards stopped. 27:07 Oh yeah. 27:08 People stop checking on you. 27:12 And you know, where is everybody now? 27:16 And I think we need to have something put in place; 27:20 after care to recovery. 27:26 Something to help these families. 27:28 I'm a family. My daughters. 27:30 You know, helping them understand the importance. 27:34 I'm just thankful that I was there to help you. 27:37 Listen, we are down to our last few seconds. 27:40 And I just want to say, "Thank you." 27:42 I am so proud of you. 27:44 And we will see Nia and Arthur again 27:47 on that great day when the trumpet shall sound. 27:50 I want to thank all of you. 27:52 And remember, there's healing in forgiveness. 27:55 I'm Dr. Kim. God bless. |
Revised 2018-05-02