Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Stephanie Griffin
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000233A
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00:01 Stay tuned to meet a woman who sees the devil
00:02 trying to come through the back door of the church 00:05 and she's going to put a lock on it. 00:07 My name is Yvonne Lewis, and you're watching Urban Report. 00:33 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:35 Many of you know my former affiliation with 00:38 New Age Medicine and when I hear of anything that remotely 00:41 has a hint of that, I'm really on guard. 00:44 So you can imagine how pleased I was when my friend and colleague 00:48 Brenda Walsh told me about our guest today. 00:50 I told Brenda, I have to interview her on Urban Report. 00:55 My guest is Stephanie Griffin, author of Silence No More. 00:59 Welcome to Urban Report Stephanie. 01:01 Thank you Yvonne. 01:03 Thank you for having me. 01:04 Absolutely, it's a blessing to have you. 01:06 So, you have a whole journey with spiritual formation 01:13 and many of our viewers don't know what that is. 01:16 Don't know the dangers of it. 01:18 Let's talk about Spiritual Formation first and then we'll 01:22 come back to your journey. 01:23 Ok. What is Spiritual Formation? 01:25 Spiritual Formation really is just a generic term 01:30 and meaning what informs or forms your spirituality. 01:35 Hmm. What the Emergent Church has done with it, 01:39 is something different. 01:40 What is the Emergent Church? 01:42 Um, it's basically what's come out of new theology 01:50 and a new way of approaching Biblical studies and God's word. 01:56 Interesting, because I know that it is...there are different 02:02 organizations, different projects, different groups 02:08 that are promoting Spiritual Formation and what's the danger 02:16 of it. Why can't I have new deeper, richer 02:22 kind of experience through it? What's wrong with it? 02:26 It's based on the Spiritual Formation exercises 02:31 of Saint Ignatius of Loyola, and he was the first Jesuit, 02:39 he started the Jesuit order in the 1500's. 02:44 And so out of these exercises... it was of Catholic origin 02:49 and it has become repackaged and then adopted by the 02:57 mainstream Protestantism churches and then into 03:01 the Adventist movement. 03:02 And so for mainstream Protestantism, 03:07 it's really not a big deal, although there are some uprising 03:11 against it. Among them for us, a people with a message 03:17 for this day and time. It's extremely dangerous. 03:20 It's dangerous because it basically displaces 03:24 the teachings of the Three Angels Messages. 03:29 And so it brings in all about Jesus, the focus is Jesus, 03:35 which really is a good thing, everything is, even Revelation 03:38 is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. 03:41 But we can't omit prophecy, especially today and 03:48 where we are because it's either scary or not popular. 03:56 So in Spiritual Formation, the beliefs that accompany that 04:04 are that prophecy is not necessary, 04:07 it's just totally Jesus focused and leave everything else out? 04:12 All about Jesus and love and unity. 04:17 So this is really a movement that the end result brings 04:22 unity among its ecumenism. 04:26 Right. So it's... Bring all the churches together 04:31 for a deeper, richer experience and it really ends up being 04:36 mysticism. Yes. And the mysticism is based on 04:42 Eastern Religions that are incompatible with what we 04:46 believe in. Is that it? It's very true. Am I on it? 04:49 It's very true, you have nailed it and it's not something that I 04:51 and it's not something I really understood in the beginning. 04:54 and the mysticism component is contemplative prayer. 04:59 Which really is the basis of all of the spiritual exercises. 05:05 How does that work, contemplative prayer? 05:07 Well, I was taught to pick a word or words to focus on 05:17 and kind of go into Jesus' presence, and so I would usually 05:26 pick a Bible verse to focus on to meditate on. 05:28 You are supposed to meditate on the scriptures...Right. 05:31 "Be still and know that I am God." 05:32 Right. So it sounded very Biblical to me in the beginning 05:36 and I did choose a word, it was Jesus. 05:39 You know, interesting that I felt I needed a "safe" word 05:44 to begin my meditation, as I look back on that. 05:48 That was a big red flag. But I was basing it on the Bible 05:52 because it was introduced to me as Biblical prayer. 05:56 So it's creating that place where Jesus can speak to you 06:02 and there is no other noise, it's just very silent, 06:06 and it's also called The Silence, or Listening Prayer. 06:09 It's meant to be present with Jesus so that 06:13 He can speak to you. 06:15 You know, it's so amazing Stephanie because it all sounds 06:20 so wonderful like, let's just focus on Jesus, 06:26 let's just empty our minds so that we can have that 06:32 one on one with Jesus. 06:34 I mean that sounds absolutely beautiful because that's what 06:40 as Christian's, and as Seventh- day Adventist Christians, 06:42 we want a deeper relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, 06:46 so yeah, that sounds really good. 06:48 But, it's so like Satan to take something beautiful 06:54 and just take just a little bit of distortion and throw it all 06:58 away, it's all the way something different. 07:00 It does. For every truth God has, Satan has the counterfeit. 07:05 Right. And there's counterfeit prayer. 07:08 Let's...We'll come back to the exercises. 07:12 Let's talk about how this happened to you. 07:15 How did you get into this whole area of Spiritual Formation? 07:21 Interesting question, good question, 07:24 and one I really had to dig deep and pray about it 07:27 and ask God to really reveal. 07:28 Because beforehand I was very knowledgeable about the prophecy, 07:36 um, I was well read, I was reading things like from 07:40 Hollbrook and the pillars of our faith. 07:45 And when it came to me, I was at a place in my life 07:51 where things were happening, there was some appeal 07:57 and then in my past, I think Satan took advantage 08:05 of some places in my life. 08:07 One being when my grandfather passed, I was with him 08:12 at the hospital and it was just at the very eleventh hour 08:18 before he passed away and he would have not made it 08:22 to the next hour for visitation. 08:26 So, he asked me to pray for him and I couldn't. 08:31 And I was the only grandchild raised Seventh-day Adventist. 08:37 Why couldn't you? 08:38 I was very angry about some things that had come to light 08:42 a couple years prior. That being I was told that 08:49 my father, the man who I had known to be my father 08:52 my whole life and was raised as my father, was not my father. 08:55 Umm. That my stepfather was my biological father, 08:59 so, I was already in a place of, I was basically a Laodicean 09:06 in my relationship...I was lukewarm, you know. Um hum. 09:10 I would go to church, I would do the right things, 09:12 but, and I knew the things. 09:13 But that relationship was kind of, it was on the back borner, 09:18 back burner, warm, and so when I found this out it really... 09:22 It really threw me and it shook my faith in God, 09:27 not in what I believed, but in God, 09:30 wondering how He could allow this to happen, and um... 09:35 What kind of relationship did you have with your 09:37 biological father? My biological father and I 09:41 were very close, I was in that home five days a week 09:45 and then with my other dad on the weekends and 09:49 summer breaks and that sort of thing. 09:51 So we were very close, we had the same sense of humor, 09:54 I could talk to him about a lot of things, he was fun, 09:59 he was a lot like me in a lot of ways. 10:03 His be...Who he was, gives reason to a lot of things 10:07 about me, good and bad. So, we are all a part of 10:12 who we come from so we were very close. 10:18 He was not a Christian and did not believe in God. 10:21 So those were the things that we didn't really have in common. 10:27 Um hum. And there was always this dichotomy in the home, 10:30 but my mom did a very good job of showing me. 10:35 So you had a close relationship with your biological father 10:41 and a very close relationship with your step dad 10:44 who you really looked at as like your dad. 10:48 He's your dad. So, what... how did you respond 10:54 when you found out that your stepdad was not your 11:00 biological father? 11:01 Um, it was late at night, and so my dad, the one who I had always 11:11 known to be my dad was a traveling salesman at the time 11:17 and I called my stepmom, woke her up, and I said, 11:21 what's dad's phone number? because he always checked in 11:24 always gave his phone number, and I woke him up 11:26 in the middle of the night. So I just said dad, 11:30 I was just told you are not my dad, is that true? 11:33 And he gave the most beautiful answer, he says, 11:38 nobody knows for sure, and he says, and we have been together, 11:42 we have been through too much together as a family, 11:44 not to be a family. Umm. 11:46 It was beautiful, and he never changed. 11:49 Rock solid, and he was there for me and let me know that 11:56 I was his daughter. Um hum. 12:00 It wasn't defined by blood, right? It was defined by your 12:05 relationship, so yeah. 12:09 But you responded to that whole situation with anger 12:14 towards God? Correct, I was angry at God and I told Him, 12:17 I said, I don't want anything more to do with you. 12:19 Hmm. So, I just kind of drifted and...out of my anger. 12:29 Um hum. And then when my... I still went to church some 12:33 but I didn't really seek a relationship at all. 12:37 So, when my grandfather passed away and I wasn't able to 12:42 pray for him, that really spoke to me. 12:45 God knows how to reach us. Yes He does. 12:48 And what to bring to our lives to do that, and so I am forever 12:51 grateful. Isn't it wonderful that even though we might 12:55 have those feelings toward God, He never has those feelings 12:59 toward us, He just keeps wooing and saying, I Love You, 13:03 I Love You Anyway, and that's what He did with you. 13:10 Whenever we push Him out of our lives, we are open to Satan 13:14 and He protected me. 13:15 And if we lose our lives during that point too, 13:18 I mean, the Lord spared your life during that time 13:22 when your relationship with Him was temporarily severed, 13:26 He spared your life during that time so...He did. 13:30 We just praise God for His mercy and His grace. 13:34 All the time. 13:35 So you saw that you couldn't pray for your grandfather 13:39 and that really shook you. 13:40 It did, how could I not pray for someone I love so deeply, 13:44 give him what he needed before left us, before he passed. 13:47 It's just...I never want to be in that situation again, 13:50 that I couldn't give somebody that gift. 13:53 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 13:55 So, was that what spurred you into coming back to the Lord or? 14:02 It was, it was, and that's when I stumbled upon the doctrine 14:07 of the sanctuary. Ok. And all the doctrine contained 14:10 within the sanctuary. 14:11 Beautiful! Re-converted me to my belief system 14:15 but, with a doctrine that I really didn't know before. 14:19 Umm. I believe in the Sabbath, there were a lot of things I 14:23 believed in, but I didn't know about all the doctrine that 14:27 the sanctuary contains. It has all of our beliefs in it. 14:30 They're Biblical. So it re-converted me solidly. 14:38 So did you study it, or did you go to classes about it? 14:44 I was reading books, I was reading books like Sarah Peck, 14:50 I was on a mission trip. 14:51 Shortly there after I went on a mission trip. 14:53 I went back to church and I was rebaptized and 14:56 I was teaching the youth and I ended up on a mission trip 15:00 with my previous... Shenandoah Valley Academy. 15:03 My previous academy. And so I was invited on that 15:06 and I went and um, I was reading my book on the sanctuary 15:12 by Sara and one of the... there was a seminary student 15:17 who was also on it. He was like, why are you reading 15:20 seminary material? 15:21 I'm like, what? I'm just reading a book. 15:24 He says, that's a text book. I'm like, I don't know, 15:27 it's just good. 15:28 Those are the things that God was giving me, 15:31 probably to make up for lost time. 15:33 Umm. God gives you what you need and He redeems the time. 15:36 Yes. Yes He does. 15:38 So, you started reading more, you started praying more, how did... 15:43 what happened after that that led you into a whole other path? 15:50 Good question. Well, I moved to Loma Linda a year later 15:56 and I was working for Loma Linda in the Emergency Department 16:00 and I was moonlighting at Redlands Community. 16:03 And you're a nurse? I'm a nurse. Right. 16:05 Yes. And I met a wonderful hospital chaplain, 16:10 and so I was working agency through there for about 16:13 seven years. And it was during that time that he would 16:17 approach me from time to time. How are you? 16:19 He was very personal, very caring, loves the Lord. 16:23 And was always good about establishing and maintaining 16:27 any relationships with people. 16:30 So one day he came by and he says "How are you?" 16:34 You are disturbing my prayer life. Then he went on to tell me 16:37 things that I was experiencing. 16:39 And I was...That you hadn't told him about. 16:44 I had not shared that, that was very personal. 16:46 You know, that was between me and God. 16:48 And so, they weren't specifics, they were generalities 16:55 like I sense a struggle, I sense this, I sense that 17:00 and he nailed everything one by one. 17:04 And so, he said would you be willing to meet now for 17:08 some spiritual direction and I'm like, sure, 17:12 I never heard of it and I said sure. 17:14 I felt like I needed and desired some spiritual support. 17:19 And then it came in the package of a fatherly kind of gentleman, 17:25 very caring, very safe place. 17:27 So when that area moved, here comes the fatherly 17:33 type person. Right. 17:35 Very caring...Who had that spiritual component that I could 17:39 speak with about such things. And so you did. 17:43 And so I did and it was beautiful. 17:46 In the beginning, it was really beautiful, he would give me 17:48 Biblical courses and homework that incorporated the Bible 17:54 as well as something called contemplative prayer. 17:58 Um hum. What does that involve? contemplative prayer? 18:02 Well, it's basically, I mean as we understand it at New Age, 18:11 and mysticism, you empty your mind. 18:14 It was presented to me as a time of being present with God, 18:20 with Jesus that keeps out everything else. 18:26 It's just silence, and it's you and it's God 18:28 and it's very intimate and beautiful, 18:31 and it's a time for Him to be able to speak with you. 18:33 And who doesn't want to hear God's voice. 18:36 Exactly. Exactly. You know it is a passion, 18:38 it was a desire. Exactly. To hear God's voice. 18:41 And then with not being able to pray for my grandfather... 18:44 Of course that changed before I met him, but it was another 18:48 avenue of prayer that I hadn't explored and it was 18:51 intriguing to me, it's like oh, more about prayer, I can learn. 18:54 Right. So that's how it came to me 18:59 and that's how I began experiencing it. 19:02 Um hum. And when you first started it, as you said, 19:07 it was such a beautiful experience and it did take you 19:11 deeper into another realm, didn't it? It did. 19:15 Um, one of the things that people use to bait other people 19:26 into coming into this is the whole idea of, it's kind of like 19:31 standing by the tree, it's kind of standing by the 19:35 Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, like this fruit 19:38 will make you wise, this fruit is good to eat. 19:43 It's kind of the same kind of thing, this will bring you 19:47 closer to the Lord, and we want that, and so.. 19:51 And you also, we also know that there are verses that say 19:55 you know, "My sheep know my voice" and all that, 19:58 so you are thinking, "well I want to know His voice" 20:03 so let me get silent to hear and to go deeply within 20:10 into that silent space, right. 20:13 And then, what happens? It's all part of that 20:18 eastern mysticism. It is. 20:20 It's all part of that... Repackaged for Christians. 20:25 Repackaged very beautifully. 20:27 Um hum. So what happened to you? What are some of the 20:30 exercises that they have you do? 20:33 Give us a few of them, just to explain...I just kind of want 20:38 our viewers to understand that it's a wolf in sheep's clothing. 20:44 It is. So what kind of exercises did you have to do? 20:50 Well, one of them is contemplative prayer 20:52 and how we know the difference between Biblical prayer 20:55 verses contemplative prayer is Biblical prayer 20:59 is an external silence, "Be still and know that I am God." 21:03 David was meditating, right, but he meditated on the Psalms, 21:08 on the law. We are to meditate on the law, not empty our mind. 21:12 Right. We have a quite environment so that we can 21:16 contemplate the law and hear what the Holy Spirit might 21:20 have to say to us about what we are reading. 21:22 Um hum. Um, the contemplative prayer with mysticism and 21:28 spiritual formation is an internal silence that takes 21:32 your mind offline. The frontal lobe just gets disengaged 21:35 because it decreases the blood flow, so... Come on now, 21:40 you're giving us the whole physiological thing, I love it, 21:42 I love it. Give us the whole physiological component. 21:45 So the frontal lobe is involved, and that is where we make 21:49 judgement. That's our judgement center, exactly. 21:52 So, that's interesting. So that becomes disengaged 21:56 during this process. It does, and ironically 22:00 spiritual formation practices have something called 22:05 exercises for discernment. And so if I am wanting to know 22:11 if I should take a different job, or if something, 22:14 you know, I'm supposed to do for God in particular 22:17 and you take it into this discernment process 22:22 and then you end with contemplative prayer 22:25 which takes you off line and how are you going to hear 22:28 God's voice. Right. You know. So the discernment, 22:32 let's go back to that because that... now it's starting to 22:36 sound like a Ouija board kind of. Like do I do this, 22:42 or do I do that? Or do I... Not that, see again, 22:47 that fine line, because we do pray and ask God 22:50 do I do this, should I do that, should I, what should I do Lord? 22:54 What is your will for me? 22:55 But how does He speak to us? with His will. 23:00 Is it in a silent place. He has many ways. Right! 23:05 And it's usually not so silent. Right, right, right. 23:10 So these prayers for discernment, this exercise 23:16 for discernment, would you have to go into that 23:21 silence place first? How did that work? 23:24 No, you would do whatever the exercise is and I never 23:26 used that. So, there was some use of it. 23:29 So there was something that felt like you shouldn't? 23:31 Yeah, I would receive some of these and some of these I 23:33 just didn't feel good about. Interesting that I didn't hear 23:36 the voice of the Holy Spirit in all of it but I did it. 23:40 So that's not something that I really used, 23:42 there were several of the others that I didn't use. 23:43 But whatever the exercise, it's always ending with 23:49 entering the silence. 23:52 Hmm. And into that contemplative prayer to hear what God has to 23:56 say about whatever you did in your exercise. 24:01 Whatever came out of that space they would say. 24:06 It's interesting to me that in mysticism, like transcendental 24:12 meditation, the whole idea is empty your mind 24:16 so that it can be filled. 24:19 Um hum. And the question is, what's filling it? 24:24 With what. Because that was one of the things with Yoga. 24:30 You know Yoga is attached to Hinduism and you can't really 24:35 separate it and people say oh Yoga is fine, 24:38 and Yoga is just stretching and breathing, and no it's related.. 24:42 You cannot detach Yoga from Hinduism, and that's mysticism. 24:48 And some would say, well what's wrong with taking from this 24:55 belief system...what's wrong with that? 24:58 If it brings me closed to God... Their god might be a million 25:02 gods like in the Hindu deal, but with us it's one God. 25:07 So what's wrong with taking some of what they do 25:11 and applying it to our situation. 25:13 What do you say to that? 25:15 Look at me as an example. "Don't do it." 25:17 Don't do it. You know God is light, He is truth 25:23 and there is no error or darkness in Him. 25:25 So who are we to then, take from the darkness 25:29 and add it into you, the light? 25:31 Come on. It takes away the light you know. Gray areas, 25:34 God is not gray in His truths. 25:37 That, that's so good. Satan is. 25:40 That's right, that's right. 25:41 When Satan gets a hold of something and at first it 25:44 seems ok and then it just takes you further and further away 25:47 from the truth and sometimes it's too late. 25:50 That is so true. God is light, in Him there is no darkness. 25:57 No darkness. Satan is just darkness, 26:00 he tries to have a little light in there just to mix you up... 26:04 He was the Light Bearer. That's right. So he knows. 26:06 That's right. He knows how to portray light, 26:08 but it is false light. It's false light. 26:10 Exactly. So with that, with taking a little bit from here 26:15 and there and all that, it's called syncretism right? 26:18 You take a little bit of this, a little bit of that 26:20 and you try to put it together and form it into something 26:26 that is Christian and it's not. 26:31 I read...there's a book called A Time of Departing 26:33 by Ray Younging, and he says that taking the... 26:42 trying to apply the principles of mysticism gives you 26:49 a different understanding of God, it gives you 26:53 their understanding of God. 26:56 I am so...that's well said and it's a great summary 26:59 because this whole movement is an attack on 27:02 the character of God, of Jesus. 27:05 How so? Let's talk about that okay. 27:08 How is this an attack on God? It all sounds so beautiful... 27:13 It seems like it's all about Jesus. Right. 27:16 But we can't... Jesus is a God of mercy and justice, 27:21 so He's just and He's mercy. He has a law and He is all love. 27:25 Right. And He has His law and that law is based 27:28 on His character. I mean it is a transcription 27:30 of His character and it's pure love. 27:33 Right. So it's how we love God and how we love one another. 27:36 So what spiritual formation does is, it's all about God, 27:42 it basically omits a lot of the prophecy, 27:46 it omits eventually parts of the law because that 27:52 gets in the way of just loving Jesus and so that destroys 28:00 His character, now you have half of the truth about God. 28:04 He's not just love, He is all love, 28:06 but He has other things too, so it omits part of 28:11 His character. So it kind of distorts who He is. Um hum. 28:16 Because if you leave out the justice part and it's just the 28:23 mercy part, that's not, I mean it's all, as you said, 28:28 it's all mixed with love but we need to have 28:33 the full picture of His character, not just... We do... 28:36 not just a part of His character. 28:38 Anything less is a lie. 28:40 And so now we have a whole movement that's based on a lie 28:43 and what are we presenting? What are we bringing people to? 28:47 Yes. How long were you involved in the whole... 28:51 Almost nine years. 28:53 Movement, because it is kind of a movement isn't it? 28:55 It's a movement. 28:57 How prevalent is it? 28:58 It's very prevalent, especially where I am, 29:01 it's very prevalent, but it's made a lot of inroads. 29:07 Yes, yes. We have different and we have to call it out 29:12 because that is what we have to do. 29:15 The Emergent Church, the one project, these are all 29:18 spiritual formation movements and we are not saying that 29:25 the people involved in these movements don't love the Lord. 29:29 Oh, no, they do. They are very sincere about what... 29:31 It's not about that, it's about error though. 29:34 Yes. Stephanie unpack a little bit more for us how 29:37 it's missing the mark, like the one project and 29:41 things like that, how is it just kind of missing the mark? 29:45 Well, whenever we uplift Jesus and Jesus only without 29:52 that complete picture of His character of love and mercy, 29:57 justice, we are misrepresenting His character, 30:01 which is no different than what Lucifer did in heaven. 30:06 Hmmm. Lucifer attacked God's character in heaven. 30:09 And so, this is just another attack on His character 30:14 leaving only love and then removing the doctrine of the 30:22 sanctuary, the 2300 years, the sanctification part. 30:30 It's just love and especially the investigative judgement, 30:35 there is where we lose the justice. 30:37 And yet there are people who don't know this and have no 30:44 impetus for change or allowing God to work 30:47 in their lives, the Holy Spirit to speak to them 30:49 and cleanse their lives. 30:51 We are supposed to be a people being prepared for Jesus' 30:57 second coming and He ultimately wants to reproduce His character 31:01 in us, Satan said He couldn't. Mmmm! And so this is the direct 31:07 attack on His character and what He wants to do, 31:11 if he can take more of His people with him 31:13 then that hurts Jesus even more. 31:16 So we have a choice, and the spiritual formation movement 31:22 doesn't give a complete picture so that people can make 31:27 a choice, an informed choice. 31:29 So is there a concept within that whole paradigm? 31:37 Is there a concept of sin and redemption and that 31:43 kind of thing? Is there the cross? 31:46 Are those things emphasized in spiritual formation or no? 31:51 I can't speak for everybody because everybody 31:54 practices things a little differently. 31:57 But, justification is certainly uplifted and taught, 32:04 sanctification is kind of a little more difficult 32:07 subject, people don't want to talk about that so much 32:10 because that incorporates other doctrine and so... 32:15 you're not getting... Which is the work a lifetime, 32:18 nobody wants to talk about that part. 32:20 It's true, and so we have pieces of the exercises like 32:25 Lectio Divina where you read a passage and whatever pops up 32:31 or stands out to you, then you go back and read those 32:35 words again. 32:36 And so what happens is, we are focusing on a few words 32:40 in the passage, and leaving off the rest. 32:43 We are also losing that comparative study, 32:46 line upon line, precept upon precept. 32:48 Here a little. There a little. 32:51 Which reveals and confirms truth. 32:53 So when we leave those pieces off, we are left with just 32:59 little things that really don't make a big difference 33:04 and they certainly don't reflect the true character of Christ. 33:08 That, the Lectio Divina... Lectio Divina, sacred reading. 33:12 So it's reading from the Bible and catching a phrase 33:18 or a word and then meditating on that. 33:23 Um hum. Then you take it into the silence, sit her down 33:26 and contemplate. 33:27 How did you...ok, so you were in this for nine years. 33:32 Almost. 33:33 How did you get out of it? 33:35 You know, it wasn't a big ah ha, it was just really God 33:40 intervening as life got busy, err. 33:44 Um, my father, my dad who I grew up with knowing as my dad 33:48 had a really severe stroke, he could move one hand 33:52 and that was it. 33:54 So he was placed in a nursing home by our house 33:56 and I would travel back and forth from California frequently 34:00 to spend time with him. 34:01 I was in grad school going to school, I was also working 34:06 full time, so as you can imagine, 34:08 I didn't have a lot of time to put forth maybe to the 34:13 exercises towards the end but I was still maintaining 34:16 the contemplative prayer component because that for me 34:20 was my go to, it was, I could get away from all of the 34:24 hustle and bustle. 34:26 Umm. And then I got married and I just didn't have the time 34:33 much to do it any more. 34:34 Plus I was picking up again spiritual, not spiritual but 34:37 Spirit of Prophecy and I loved those years before. 34:42 But another sneaky thing about this movement is 34:46 they don't take away directly the Spirit of Prophecy, 34:50 they give you other offerings, so that here read this, 34:54 here read this. 34:55 These are all of the spiritual formation writers 34:57 and so Spirit of Prophecy gets displaced. 35:01 Umm. And I was at a research seminar just a few weeks ago 35:04 at Loma Linda, and one of the researchers presented 35:11 some statistics and it showed that reading Ellen White 35:16 um, actually helps in memory retention and understanding 35:22 of doctrine. 35:24 So look what happens when we displace those readings, 35:27 it's easy to fall away from things. 35:31 Even though everything is in the Bible, 35:32 it's just beautiful added light, you know, so. 35:36 It's a...So as I began reading her writings again 35:42 I lost interest in the other books, 35:45 they just didn't really make sense any more, 35:47 I tried to read them, they wouldn't resonate with me. 35:51 God had a bigger plan, so He was moving me out before 35:54 I was really aware. 35:56 It wasn't until I finished school in 2012, 36:02 even though I wasn't practicing any of it anymore, 36:05 in 2012 I had a little more life. 36:08 And my sister came to visit and she had been to the 36:13 book store, the ABC store and she prayed before she went in. 36:16 She said if anybody in the family needs anything, 36:19 just lead me to it. 36:20 And as she was at the check out counter, she saw the 36:23 Omega Rebellion on display, it wasn't on sale, 36:27 she didn't know anything about it, she knew nothing 36:29 about spiritual formation and she picked up the book 36:32 and she's like I don't know what this is, but I have to 36:34 get it. Wow. I'm supposed to get it. 36:36 So when she came home that evening, I'm like, 36:40 let me see your loot, so I'm looking at all the books 36:43 and I went right to that book, and I didn't put it down 36:48 until it was finished. 36:49 What did it talk about? 36:50 Well, Rick Howard was also in mysticism, 36:54 but he wasn't in the Christian type, he was in mysticism 36:58 and it had talked about how he had come out 37:00 and he talked about contemplative prayer 37:02 in different pieces in the meditation part 37:05 and the book really spoke to me on a lot of levels 37:10 I still had to be convinced a little bit more about 37:13 contemplative prayer. Um hum. 37:14 I'm like oh no, it's his experience because he was 37:16 eastern mysticism, that's not mine, I was Christian. 37:20 Right, right, right. 37:21 I was based on the Bible. 37:22 Right. So, um, about six months or a year later, 37:27 I came across Howard Path's book, I think it's Howard Path, 37:33 on contemplative prayer, "The Dangers of Contemplative Prayer," 37:36 wow, that sealed the deal right there. 37:39 It's like ok God gives you what you need when you need it 37:42 and sometimes too much light at once can shut us down. 37:47 So our eyes have to have time to adjust sometimes to 37:52 what we are seeing in the additional lights. 37:56 So for me, it just took a little bit of time, 37:58 but boy when I was out, I was out, 38:00 and I was fine with it until it started coming closer to me 38:10 and my church, and I started seeing it. 38:13 What happened? 38:14 Well, I was at a prayer seminar at one of our churches 38:19 and the presenter who was also Adventist presented 38:22 and the first thing he did, was he played a hymn, 38:28 I don't remember which one it was, but it was a beautiful hymn, 38:30 and then he looked at the people in there and he said 38:34 now, what came up for you for that? 38:37 And that is a big spiritual formation piece. Ummm. 38:42 Playing a song, a hymn or something, 38:46 and then asking the question, now what comes up for you 38:49 with this? What did this bring out for you? 38:52 Uh, so for me, my red flag went up and I am like ok, 38:56 I am just going to wait this out a little bit, 38:58 and the next thing I know, he's describing the affects 39:02 of prayer and the very feeling words. 39:05 Warm, peacefulness, and it's great prayer can do that, 39:12 but there is more to prayer than just that. 39:15 You know, where is the spirit of conviction? 39:18 Right. Conviction doesn't feel good, it's necessary, 39:22 you know, it brings us to repentance. 39:23 So that is also left off contemplative prayer. 39:28 With this off line, the Holy Spirit can't come in 39:32 and convict and cleanse His people. Um hum. 39:35 So sanctification gets impaired, impeded. 39:39 So, ok, so then he goes on to describe things, 39:43 and then he brought up a research finding in which 39:48 he said that priests and nuns who spent more time in prayer 39:53 had more job satisfaction. 39:54 I'm like, umm. Hmmm. 39:58 I was sitting on the edge of my seat trying to keep my 40:01 shouts down? 40:02 You're antenna went up like BOING!, that's how mine is too. 40:05 For New Age stuff, it's like BOING! Yes! 40:07 Oh no! Once you've been around it or in it 40:11 you see if coming from a mile away. Yes you do. 40:13 And people are like how did you see that? 40:15 What do you see? I can't describe it, it is just there. 40:17 You just know it. You do. You do. 40:19 The Lord gives you that discernment. He does. 40:21 He gives you that gift. 40:22 So after the seminar was coming to an end and they had a 40:27 Q and A session, I asked him, I said so you're research that 40:30 you presented, was that based on Biblical prayer, 40:34 traditional Biblical prayer or contemplative prayer? 40:36 and his face got really red and he kind of stumbled 40:41 and he said contemplative prayer, and he 40:43 picks the next question. I'm like... Um hum. 40:47 So, um, it was things like that and some friends of mine who 40:52 also attended a local church, there church was just being 40:56 ravaged by it, it has torn them apart, 40:59 the membership is 50% down. 41:01 It destroyed friendships, families, it's devastating, 41:06 this movement can be devastating. 41:08 How so? How can it be... Again how can something that's 41:14 packaged so beautifully, be so devastating? 41:18 Well, going back to truth and error 41:23 Whenever there is error, even though there is truth 41:27 we don't compromise the truth and except error. 41:30 So when error is being taught, usually what happens is, 41:34 it's going to leave off the truth and more error will be 41:39 presented over time, it's a slippery slope. 41:43 So when people start seeing what's going on 41:45 and want to protect God's character, His full character, 41:51 they start coming up against this, then it can 41:56 divide families. 41:58 In the situation, one of the family members, it was a 42:01 pastor, and so you have this church and there is family 42:06 against family because that's how it happens 42:10 And look at that, Satan has just ruined God's character 42:12 and he's destroyed families and he's destroyed 42:15 spiritual families. 42:16 So, not that these things can't be healed, you know all things 42:22 can be healed when brought before the Lord, 42:25 and people who have soft hearts for God and the tapping of 42:30 the Holy Spirit in our lives but without that, it's irreparable. 42:37 Yeah, yeah. It's, if we are on that path of error, 42:44 and someone tries to warn us, if you don't have... 42:49 if you are not praying to God and asking Him to help you 42:54 to see, your whole flesh can rise up, you can get very angry 42:59 about it, it can cause these rifts and that's what the devil 43:03 wants anyway. He does. To divide. 43:06 He doesn't care if it's truth or error, if he can just cause 43:08 problems, he's happy with that. That's right. That's right. 43:12 So you went to this seminar, you asked the presenter 43:17 and he did say contemplative prayer, so you knew, Bingo 43:22 this is, he's trying to bring this into my church. 43:25 Um hum. Is that what... what had you right? 43:29 What had you right this far? That was a big step. 43:31 Ok, alright. I went to... I think we have a picture 43:35 of your book too. Oh, you do. 43:36 Silence No More. Yeah. 43:38 I went to the pastor of the church and there was disbelief. 43:46 Whenever we don't know about something, 43:48 we don't tend to really believe things so I think it was the 43:53 deaf ears and no place to go to share my concerns 43:58 that God created this. Yes. 44:03 So He actually laid on your heart...He did... 44:06 To write this book. It was never in my thought. 44:08 How long did it take you to start? February of 2016. 44:11 Ok. So it was a year ago. 44:13 Right. Yeah. And what happened to you 44:16 while you were writing it? 44:18 Well to start it, I woke up one morning with these words 44:22 in my head, Silence No More, and I am like what is this? 44:26 So...It's a great title by the way. 44:29 It's a God given title. Thank you, I'm glad you like it. 44:33 It speaks on two levels but I ran it by my husband 44:37 and I said, what do you think that is? and he said 44:39 I think you are supposed to write a book. 44:42 And I'm like, I think so. 44:43 So, I was like I'm not prepared for this, so I prayed about it 44:49 and my fleece was, if Elder Cox said yes he would write the 44:54 forward, then I would know that I was supposed to 44:57 write a book. 44:58 So, when I got to church the next night, 44:59 I asked him, I said, so I think I'm supposed to 45:02 write a book. 45:03 I said, if I write the book, would you agree to write 45:05 the Forward, and he says, well, after you write it... 45:09 Accountability right. That's a good answer, right. 45:14 Because if I can, I will, I'm like OK. 45:17 So for me that was a yes, be- cause I figure what God starts, 45:22 He finishes and He has an idea. 45:24 So, there were many confirmations along the way, 45:26 but that was how the book became a book. 45:30 Tell us about some of the confirmations, 45:31 we have a little time. Okay. 45:33 Alright, well, my cousin David who took the picture 45:38 for the cover, posted this picture on LinkedIn, 45:43 and he doesn't really do that. 45:46 He's Vice President of an electrical company 45:48 and they do jobs. I've never seen him post one job. 45:51 He posted this picture and I was like... 45:54 I couldn't get my mind off of it. 45:55 I picked up my phone and looked at this picture during the day, 45:58 it was so beautiful, and I'm like, I have to have 46:00 that picture. 46:02 I'm like, can I have this picture? 46:03 I was going to put it in the living room or something, 46:05 and then I got the title. 46:07 And I'm like, I think that picture is for this book. 46:11 Because it totally...just the picture... 46:14 A picture is worth a thousand words, right. Right. 46:16 It's a sermon in itself. 46:18 Let's put the picture back up with the book cover. 46:20 Explain it to us. Ok. 46:22 So, as you can see the beautifully lighted columns, 46:25 it's dark around it, but then there is this beautiful light, 46:28 and for me, I was just drawn, I wanted to go sit there, 46:32 read my Bible and pray. Um hum. 46:34 But if you notice, past the center, down the corridor, 46:39 the light dissipates, it gets darker. Hmm. 46:43 Right. Just like Spiritual Formation, it draws you, 46:45 it's beautiful, it's full of light, seeming, right, 46:48 and then the further you go, the deeper you go, 46:50 the darker it gets, until there is no light left. 46:53 Wow! That's beautiful. 46:56 That is beau... I love the cover, I mean, 47:00 I just think it has that kind of drawing, compelling, 47:05 you know, capability. I just thought it was really good. 47:09 CQ did that. I know CQ, she is amazing. 47:13 We have to give CQ a shout out because she is just amazing. 47:17 She is an amazing woman. She has been terrific 47:18 through this whole thing. Yes. 47:20 So, you decided to write the book, what happened to you 47:24 when you were writing it? 47:26 When I was writing it... I know the enemy is not 47:27 going to say Ohhh, she's writing a book, yeah, 47:30 I mean, I know... He attacked me from the 47:33 He attacked my home, he attacked finances, 47:37 things started breaking down that should not have been 47:41 breaking down. Um, attacked my health, thank goodness 47:48 God persevered, I mean, you know, He overcame that. 47:51 But for quite a few months I was left wondering, 47:55 do I have cancer, do I not? 47:57 And so it was just amazing what the lengths that 48:05 Satan goes to, to discourage you, but every time something 48:10 would come up, my hands were to the plow. 48:12 I'm like Lord, this is your message and it's going to go out 48:15 if that's what You want. 48:16 So, people look at Jesus on everything else. Yes. 48:21 And I will tell you, he would show up and show out in so many 48:24 ways, but when I finished the book, I sent it to Bobby, 48:28 Bobby Davis here. Thank you Bobby. 48:31 Shout out to Bobby Davis, we love him too. 48:33 It took this book not once but twice, 48:35 after having all the painstaking editing of the first one, so, 48:39 Um, yes, amazing. 48:41 I sent it to him and immediately his computer quit working. 48:46 He had to offload all of his programs and reload everything 48:51 and then it worked mostly. 48:53 It still turned all red, with all underlined, 48:56 you couldn't get any of it out, it was crazy the things 48:58 that were happening. 48:59 But we worked with that document and then from there 49:02 I sent it to Steve Wholburg, I thought I was finished, 49:06 then I thought, maybe I can get an indorsement 49:08 from him. Um hum. And he's like, this is great, 49:10 so he says, you have shown me, you've told me that it's here 49:14 now show me where it is. 49:16 I didn't want to go down that road. (Laughter) 49:19 I am not that kind of person. 49:20 And he's like no, no, these people have this information 49:23 out there if you say it's there, then just bring it forward. 49:26 He says it's not you, this is their work, 49:28 their websites, their publications, I'm like okay, 49:31 that makes sense. 49:32 Because there is a reason that God had me write my testimony. 49:35 Right. If it weren't here, there would be no need. 49:38 Right, you know. The whole book, from the beginning, 49:41 for me was written in mind with Three Angels Message 49:44 and calling people out. God loves you, come out. 49:48 This is not the time, come out. 49:50 Leave off these practices. Yes, yes. 49:51 So I sent it to him and then I had to go back into writing, 49:57 so I went back into writing and researching 49:59 and then I sent it to CQ for the formatting and her computer 50:05 crashed, never to be revived. 50:07 She had to get another computer. Wow! Um hum. 50:12 Yes. And then when she formatted it and sent it to 50:16 Remnant Publications who published it. 50:20 Um hum. They had the biggest storm that they've had in 50:22 50 years. Trees were down and they lost their electricity. 50:26 Rudy was working with flashlights and on a backup 50:31 generator. Wow. And even when he got it, he challenged me 50:37 for more, which was, there is a reason you accepted this 50:40 invitation and he said you need to dig deeper 50:43 because there is something more there. 50:45 And I'm like, I don't think so, you are barking up the 50:47 wrong tree. So, I'm like this is the baby that just won't 50:51 be birthed, right. So, I just really prayed about it 50:55 long and hard, and so about a week later, 50:58 I was sitting in church and Boom! 51:01 There it came. There's the reason, the big reason 51:08 that we shared earlier, not being able to pray with my 51:11 grandfather. Yes. So that was a driving force. 51:15 And then my whole family background and the dismantling 51:17 and remantling and... God is good, He uses all these 51:21 things that we have to close this family now. 51:22 I love my family, we were never not close. Yeah. 51:24 But now it's based on truth. 51:28 Yes. And there is a lot of love that can be infused. 51:30 Yes. And lived in when that happens. 51:33 He is a restorer. He is. He's a restorer. 51:37 All things work together for good for those 51:40 that love the Lord. 51:41 So what do you want people to take away from the book? 51:45 What ideas and thoughts and things like that do you want 51:49 people to have after they have read this book? 51:52 To really focus on what our present truth is for today. 52:00 Because it's in knowing these truths and praying for that 52:04 discernment that is our safe guard. 52:07 We're told to the Law and the Testimony, 52:10 and if they don't agree, there is no light in them. 52:14 So, it's not one or the other, it's both. 52:17 And we really need to be grounded in our beliefs 52:22 and what the Bible teaches for these last days. 52:25 Because these are perilous times that are upon us 52:31 we're seeing a lot of things happening a lot of things 52:34 shaking and starting and this movement is very dangerous, 52:37 it is stealth, but God will give you eyes to see, 52:40 if you pray for eyes to see. Um hum. Um hum. 52:44 Where at this point...Are you going to churches and talking 52:51 about this movement? Are you promoting the book by... 52:54 going to different churches and explaining what 52:59 the movement is, because you are kind of 53:01 a lone voice out there. I am. 53:05 There are others who are not pro-contemplative prayer but 53:08 you were in it. And see, to me that makes 53:12 a huge difference, when you've been a part of it 53:14 and you've come out from it, verses someone who has never 53:18 been a part of it who can just talk about it from a distance. 53:22 Right. You've been in it...I've been in it... 53:24 so you have a voice... 53:26 God is starting to give me a voice... 53:28 ...You have a voice. I do. 53:30 And I'm just starting to learn to use it. 53:33 During the writing process, I was challenged to keep this 53:37 very close because of the content, and it was very 53:40 important to do that. 53:41 So I wasn't really talking about it except with some family 53:45 and a few friends. 53:47 Now, I mean the book was only published Monday before last, 53:52 and this is my first time to talk about it. 53:54 Oh, praise the Lord. 53:55 So I wanted to thank you, but I am learning. 53:58 It's like right now I am crawling when it comes to 54:01 walk...to talking, and I have a website... 54:04 Yes, and we need to put that up...And so... 54:06 What is it? It's: 54:09 And there is a place on there for people who, 54:11 if there churches would like for me to come, 54:14 I'm willing to come and share my testimony, 54:16 offer whatever support I can in that and they can just 54:21 contact me through there. So soon maybe some speaking. 54:25 silencenomore.net. 54:27 And where can they find the book? 54:28 The Remnant Publications has it for sale, 54:31 and it's also on my website. 54:33 But if, when you go to purchase the book it will take you 54:36 right back to Remnant for the purchasing. 54:38 I think this is going to be a very interesting journey 54:42 for you. I know when you come out from something like 54:46 you did from this, I did from the New Age Medicine thing, 54:50 you, again, you have an antenna for it, so know right away 54:56 when you hear something that remotely smacks of that 55:00 you want to say something...We do. You have to say something 55:05 about it. 55:06 So we are just thankful that you have stepped up to the plate 55:10 and you decided to do this, and the book is hot off the press, 55:14 so you really need to get this book, it's really good, 55:17 it explains what this is and you might not think now 55:22 that, you know, my church isn't, doesn't have that, 55:25 or I don't have a problem with that or whatever. 55:28 But you would be amazed at how it's coming into the churches 55:33 and seminaries. Oh yes. There are Wisdom Centers or 55:40 Learning Centers, or Spiritual Centers, or whatever... 55:44 There are some centers around that are teaching these 55:49 techniques. These are techniques that get you into 55:55 Mysticism. They take you into Mysticism and um... 55:59 What would you say in one minute to the person 56:03 who is caught up in that, who doesn't really think 56:08 that there is anything wrong with it. 56:09 Look into... Well you don't have a camera, so just give me.. 56:13 I was going to say, look into that camera, 56:16 but just look at me...but tell, pretend that I am a person who's 56:20 caught up into that, what would you say to me? 56:23 I would say, I've been where you are, I understand, 56:30 um, I don't judge, I care, I care for you, 56:38 and I care where this is taking you. 56:40 Um, pray not the Contemplative prayer, but pray and read your 56:47 Bible, go back to reading your Bible and ask God to show you, 56:53 He will show you. 56:55 Thank you! Thank you so much, what a blessing you are Stephanie. 56:58 Thank you so much... It's my pleasure... 57:00 for being with us on Urban Report.. 57:01 I Timothy 4:1 says, "Now the spirit speaketh 57:06 expressly, that in the latter times, some shall depart 57:11 from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits 57:14 and doctrines of devils." 57:16 And verse 16 says, "Take heed unto thyself and unto the 57:21 doctrine. Continue in them for in doing this, thou shall 57:26 both save thy self, and them that hear thee." 57:30 Don't be deceived, ask the Holy Spirit for help, 57:34 He will guide you into all truth. 57:38 Don't be afraid if you are caught up into something, 57:41 just ask God to open your eyes. 57:44 For a long time when I was in the New Age Medicine 57:47 I was resistant to it, but the Lord loved me and 57:54 He loves Stephanie enough to take us out of that. 57:57 Thank you for joining us. 57:59 Join us next time, cause you know what? 58:01 It just wouldn't be the same without YOU. |
Revised 2017-11-13