Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Jason Hovey, Stephen Dickie
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000206A
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00:01 Where is Christ in the Qur'an?
00:02 How can we witness to our Muslim brothers and sisters? 00:05 Stay tuned to meet some men 00:07 whose knowledge of Islam in the Bible will astound you. 00:10 My name is Yvonne Lewis 00:11 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:37 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:39 My guests today are Jason Hovey, 00:41 Director of White Garments Ministry 00:43 and Stephen Dickey, Author of 00:45 "Islam: God's Forgotten Blessing" 00:47 and the Maroon Resource book 00:49 and the Founder of Strawberry Meadow Association. 00:53 Welcome to Urban Report Jason and Stephen, yeah... 00:57 Thank you... good to be here. 00:59 I met you guys at ASI and I just have this... 01:05 this burden that... I feel like the Lord... 01:09 first of all... the Lord would absolutely have us get 01:12 the gospel to everyone and it seems like we don't really know 01:17 or talk about that much... 01:18 how to reach our Muslim brothers and sisters 01:21 and with all the stuff going on with ISIS and all that, 01:25 there's just such a negative viewpoint of Muslims as a whole. 01:30 So, I wanted to bring you in to talk about 01:34 how we can reach our Muslim brothers and sisters 01:38 with the love of Jesus Christ 01:40 but before we get into all that, let our Viewers know who you are 01:45 so, let's start with you Jason, tell us a bit about yourself 01:48 and how you got into this ministry. 01:50 Well, my name is Jason and I... I live in the New York City area 01:55 just outside of New York City, about 45 minutes... 01:58 Yvonne: What's that accent though, 01:59 that's not a New York accent. 02:01 I'm originally from Minnesota... originally from Minnesota, 02:04 and years ago I got in this work... 02:08 Steve actually gave a presentation at a local church 02:10 and that changed my whole perspective 02:15 of the Muslim people. 02:16 Yvonne: How so? 02:18 Well, he had shared Revelation chapter 9 02:20 where the Muslim people were actually used 02:23 to protect the true Christians 02:24 and when I had heard that, I thought, 02:27 "Now I'm a Seventh-day Adventist 02:28 with the understanding of coming to learn... " 02:31 I'm like... we should have an opportunity 02:34 to give their children and their people, 02:36 the opportunity to what we know now... as a people. 02:39 So, that's kind of what... what had opened my eyes there. 02:43 And so, once you started on this path, 02:48 like, how did you... because you went from... 02:51 just kind of nominally knowing about it 02:54 to now being an "expert" about it, 02:57 what was your journey into the passion for it? 03:02 Well, when Steve had shared that first sermon on it, 03:07 I had prayed to God that if you would be willing to use me 03:10 in any way with this work, I would be willing... 03:13 not even knowing that things would open up, 03:15 within a month and a half, I think, of hearing that sermon, 03:19 I was out doing door-to-door work with a young couple 03:23 and the JWs had went before us were giving literature also, 03:27 we decided to go to another area, 03:28 went to another area, 03:30 came to a large facility of... of a complex, 03:33 and we decided to go inside and I rapped on the first door, 03:37 no one answered, 03:39 then all of a sudden the doors creaked and opened behind us, 03:42 and here this darker complected man walked in, 03:46 he said, "Can I help you?" 03:48 I said, "Well, we're here to visit 03:50 with the owner of this apartment. " 03:51 He says, "I'm the owner" then he went on to say, 03:53 he said, "I'm glad you came back. " 03:56 I said, "What do you mean?" 03:58 He said, "Well, you were here last week and told me 04:00 that you'd come back next week with some literature for me. " 04:04 I don't remember this... 04:06 I had never been to this apartment complex in my life, 04:09 had no idea what this man was saying 04:12 and it struck me... I looked at the couple that was with me 04:16 and my thought was... either God gave this guy a vision 04:21 or an angel may have appeared as me, 04:24 well... long story short, he was a Muslim man 04:27 but the story gets even... even juicier. 04:30 Yvonne: Come on... come on... 04:32 Back when... back in Minnesota, 04:34 back in... before I gave my heart to Jesus, 04:36 I was a heavy drinker and... and did drugs 04:39 and one night... we're in the middle of Minnesota 04:42 out in the countryside of about 3,000 people 04:46 in the outside of that... and I was next to a pickup truck 04:49 drinking one night at a bonfire with a front of people 04:52 and we had someone that brought a foreign-exchange student in 04:56 lo and behold, that guy that I met 04:59 like, 8 to 10 years later is a Seventh-day Adventist 05:02 was the guy I'd met previously at a party when I was drunk, 05:05 first time I'd ever met a Muslim in the middle of nowhere 05:08 and I'm thinking... how does God work this 8 to 10 years later? 05:12 I meet that same very guy... now I'm clean from drinking 05:16 I know that the Bible says that we're not to drink alcohol 05:21 or eat pork and I meet this Muslim guy that many years later 05:26 and God was already working on his heart, 05:28 and obviously mine. 05:30 Look at God... look at how He brings people together, 05:34 He had you attend a meeting that Stephen had 05:38 and that kind of started that whole thing 05:41 but it even started before, when you were drinking 05:45 and you didn't even realize it. 05:47 No, I was telling Stephen that I look back at that 05:50 and how do I get in the work and I ended up at Steve's church 05:55 and I'm like, "How does God plan all this way ahead of time" 05:59 and to make it happen. 06:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah... God is awesome. 06:03 Well, let's hear from Steve, now Steve, 06:05 you've been doing this work for how long? 06:08 Just after 9/11... I was in Central Asia 06:11 I had been asked there to... to see if we could put a 06:14 printing press and to print Sabbath School lessons 06:17 for... I think it was the Southern Union of the old 06:20 Adventist Church in Russia 06:22 and on Friday... they took me to Samarqand, Uzbekistan 06:28 and they took me to a Muslim shrine 06:33 that venerated that Bible Prophet Daniel. 06:35 This is what they were telling me and I... I just didn't know 06:41 but outside there was a relief written in Russian, Cyrillic, 06:46 and English saying that very same thing 06:48 and I'm kind of... I knew nothing about Islam, 06:50 I said, "What do Muslims have to do 06:52 with the Bible Prophet Daniel?" 06:54 And then on the way... leaving that place, 06:57 we went by a round-about that had a lion with wings on it 07:03 which was from the Book of Daniel 07:05 and that really started me to question... 07:07 so my daughter was at that time... going to Loma Linda 07:11 whenever we'd go out to Loma Linda, 07:13 I'd go to the Adventist Library there 07:15 and the two ladies who were overseeing that library... 07:18 I told them what I wanted 07:20 because I didn't know what I wanted, I just knew what I saw 07:22 and they started bringing me all these microfiche reels... 07:25 I'd be there for days... 07:26 I wasn't seeing the daughter... she was in class, 07:29 learning about Islam and Adventism... 07:31 I knew that in... I think less than 23 or 26 of the old texts 07:37 in Revelation Seminars had a whole lesson in Islam 07:40 and I had given those back in the '80s... 07:42 so that was my mindset... 07:45 I just started to read... I loved history 07:46 and that's how I created the... the Maroon Resource Book 07:49 because I found these things in the Adventist archives 07:51 and I put it here so that people could find it as well. 07:54 Wow! well tell us about this book... what is this book? 07:56 This is just some information I found in the Adventist Archives, 08:00 oh we found it in the Ministry Magazine Archives, 08:04 we found in just Adventist books 08:07 that were printed by Pacific Press 08:09 saying that Muhammad was a prophet 08:11 and today that's almost like a sin in the church... 08:14 that... "No, how can it be?" 08:15 Well, I don't know, that's what our church said 08:17 back in the 1950s, 08:18 and I knew that no one would believe me 08:20 so I had to write this... I just copied it, 08:22 I didn't... I just copied it so people can see 08:25 this is what I saw... and so that's to help people 08:28 understand what our church was saying years ago. 08:31 So you compiled this book 08:33 that had a lot of the teachings from years ago 08:38 that Adventists were teaching about the Muslim faith. 08:41 Right... and then I came to the logic, I said, 08:43 "If this is true... I have to go before a Muslim audience" 08:46 and so I went back to Central Asia... 08:49 the President was still there and I said, 08:52 when I was there originally, I said, 08:55 "Would you give me an opportunity 08:56 to come back and share these things?" 08:58 I didn't know what I was even going to find 09:00 but we've done enough evangelism as a lay person 09:03 I just believe that the message 09:05 that God has given His church works for all groups of people 09:08 and I had no idea so two years later, 09:10 we went back and we did a... two-week evangelistic experiment 09:14 and no one said it was going to work, 09:16 everyone told me... it wasn't going to work 09:18 and so, I was a little concerned 09:20 but we had such a crowd and such a turnout 09:22 the crowd got larger every night... it didn't get smaller 09:26 and I didn't want any Adventists to attend, 09:28 and I only wanted hard Muslims there and God blessed that... 09:32 the last night I was there... 09:33 we extended our meeting for one week... 09:34 to three weeks total... and I was on a stage like this 09:38 and I'm speaking and I had Muslims standing behind me, 09:41 we had that kind of crowd and turnout, 09:43 it got bigger every night and people found Christ there 09:46 and so I realized that the old Bible stories we have, 09:50 the old work the Adventist pioneers did... works... 09:53 and so, that's been my work ever since of sharing... 09:56 there is a way... just look at what we have. 09:59 And how long has it been? 10:01 I think 15 years... 10:03 Yvonne: 15 years... 10:05 Stephen: Right... just for Muslims... 10:06 Isn't it amazing how... 10:08 we don't know the plan that God has for us, 10:12 we just never know... we know that He has a plan 10:15 Jeremiah 29:11... we know that He has a plan, 10:17 we know that it's a plan to prosper us 10:21 right, but... and to give us a future and a hope 10:25 but we don't know where we're going to be 10:28 or what we're going to be doing and He just opens it up. 10:32 Did you grow up in a Christian home? 10:33 My parents had converted to Adventism before I was born 10:38 like, I refer to myself as a heathen Seventh-day Adventist. 10:42 A heathen Seventh-day Adventist, okay explain. 10:44 Well, I got kicked out of Adventist Schools and 10:47 I joined the Marine Corp during Vietnam, 10:49 I mean... I was just... I was just, 10:52 I mean, I've had people come back and say, 10:54 "You're still in the church?" 10:56 I just said, "Ah... I'm just a heathen Adventist. " 11:00 So, how did the Lord... we have time... 11:03 how did the Lord bring you back 11:05 and I want to hear from you too Jason, 11:07 how the Lord brought you into His marvelous light. 11:10 In the Marine Corp, I made a deal with God, 11:13 I said, "I'm going to leave the church so that I can carry a gun 11:16 and all those things for three years... " 11:17 and when I got into Boot Camp, this is a long story 11:21 but I didn't have an Adventist Drill Instructor 11:24 but I had a Drill Instructor 11:25 that went through all the religions 11:27 as we were all lined up, he said, 11:28 "Last of all, do we have any Seventh-day Adventists?" 11:30 and I raised my hand... he came down... he said, 11:32 "Every Saturday morning you disappear... " 11:34 so they forced me to go to church 11:37 about three weeks later, they said, 11:40 "Tomorrow is a big practice, 11:41 no excuses, no sick... be... you're all here. " 11:44 And so I got all geared up with my bayonet 11:46 standing in line this Saturday morning, 11:48 the Drill Instructor saw me, he just hollered at me... 11:51 screamed... he said, "You get to Church" 11:53 and so, those are the kinds of stories I had... 11:57 the same thing with the Firing Range... 11:58 I... first live fire was on Saturday morning 12:01 and they said, "No excuses... " 12:02 so I'm out there ready to shoot my rifle again, 12:04 anyway, he threw me off the firing line 12:08 and made me go to church so I'm in Vietnam now, 12:11 I'm there for my third tour and I am a Sergeant... 12:14 I had my own Landing Zone and a message comes in from the base 12:18 that said that, "Chaplain wants to see you" 12:20 I thought, "Why does the Chaplain want to see me?" 12:23 And I ran over, I go back to the base camp at Tay Ninh 12:27 I walk into the Company Office, 12:29 the old Gunnery Sergeant's there... 12:30 they had been there 26 years... what we call a "China Marine" 12:33 he said, "Dickie, why are you here?" 12:35 I said, "Well, Chaplain called me. " 12:37 He said, "Dickie if you walk into the Chaplain's office, 12:40 the roof's going to fall in" 12:41 so I went over to the Chaplain's Office, 12:44 told who I was, 12:46 he said, "Well, I'm the new Chaplain here," 12:48 and he said, "I'm a Seventh-day Adventist" 12:51 he said, "Would you like to go to church with me, tomorrow?" 12:53 Well, I had lost all concept of what day it was 12:55 so he made me go to church 12:57 and I had no idea who that fellow was 12:59 until about four years ago, 13:01 I was speaking in Desert Hot Springs, 13:02 I just relayed a little bit of the story 13:04 and he was sitting there and he says, "I'm that Chaplain. " 13:07 Wow! 13:08 So that's how God found me, I also married an Adventist wife 13:11 and the Lord blessed me. 13:13 Amen... amen... so you went after the service and all that, 13:19 you ended up getting involved in Sabbath School or...? 13:24 Well, ministry basically, 13:25 in the '80s... I knew I could sell, 13:27 I could sell things... I was a peddler... sold heavy equipment 13:31 and... Bob Borne came around 13:36 at ASI... when ASI was different than what you saw 13:39 it was only attended by 80 people nationally, 13:42 and he taught how to give Revelation Seminars 13:45 and I went through a Day Seminar of learning 13:48 and I think we did five or six of them 13:50 and people came in and it was just a thrill 13:54 to do that type of Evangelism 13:57 so that's where I learned back in the '80s... and so forth. 14:00 That is so great, so now, how did you find Jesus? 14:04 Well, I'll start off... first of all a little bit about my dad. 14:08 I was raised in Minnesota there in the farm with my parents 14:12 Dad was a heavy construction worker 14:14 underground... water, main and sewer pipe layer 14:18 and he was a heavy drinker and when I was a kid, 14:22 late teens there, my dad had rear-ended a car 14:25 which hit another car and he almost killed the people 14:30 and due to that my dad was... he was at home on probation 14:34 and my mom was about ready to leave him 14:38 and he started... he wanted to pray to God for help 14:40 because he realized he couldn't quit on his own 14:43 so he'd got down on his knees one day and prayed 14:46 and he started opening the Bible 14:48 and he came across the seventh-day Sabbath 14:51 and he's like, "I've never heard of anyone talk about this day," 14:56 well, anyways, he had turned on the TV 14:58 and seen this TV Station 15:02 that was presenting the seventh-day Sabbath 15:04 was actually 3ABN. 15:05 Yvonne: Oh... 15:07 So my dad had sent in a donation 15:09 and apparently the 3ABN here had a contact there in the area 15:14 and they sent out through the church... 15:16 there were some local people there 15:17 to start doing Bible Studies to meet my dad 15:20 and so my dad was sharing things with me 15:23 for about four or five years, "Jase, Jesus is coming... " 15:26 at that time I was drinking heavily, 15:28 I worked in a Mink Ranch and I was married with two... 15:34 actually three step-kids and whenever he talked to me 15:40 I'd listened but it never had any effect 15:43 and then one night he asked me, he says, 15:46 "Jase, I'm going to head to a Seminar, I'd like you to come," 15:49 it was a Daniel and Revelation Seminar 15:51 so I remember going at that time, 15:54 I had pretty long hair, chewing tobacco in my mouth 15:58 and I had probably gotten high earlier before the meetings 16:02 but I went to those meetings only because my dad asked. 16:06 I didn't go because I had any interest, 16:09 but I sat in that meeting and this lady... 16:12 right away they were talking about diet, 16:14 she was talking about a vegetarian diet 16:17 and I... I'm a mink rancher, 16:19 that was the worst people ever in our life 16:21 but I started to gain an interest in what was being said 16:26 and I never had an interest in health in all my life ever... 16:29 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 16:30 And then it came from the gentleman that was presenting, 16:33 he started presenting Daniel chapter 2... the image... 16:36 and I was raised as a Lutheran 16:39 but I never knew what the Bible was, 16:40 I tried reading it in Genesis once or twice... few times... 16:43 just seemed boring, anyways, 16:46 he went through Daniel... did the image 16:49 and then I came at the very last two nights of the meetings 16:51 so they talked on Revelation 13 and the Mark of the Beast 16:55 and at that point, when he spoke on Daniel 2 16:59 and he got into the issue of the Mark of the Beast 17:01 and the Sabbath... the thought came to my mind... 17:04 and it says, "There's only one person that I know in my life 17:08 that's following Jesus right now and that's my dad. " 17:10 I said, "All the rest of... everyone I know... 17:13 every one... is lost... " 17:15 and then the Lord spoke to me at those meetings 17:19 and He told me... I was lost... 17:23 Yvonne: Yeah... 17:25 And I had seen... 17:27 I was raised many times 17:29 to hear the name of Jesus in a prayer 17:31 but that was the first time that I had ever seen 17:35 where the death of Jesus meant something to me 17:39 and I prayed for the first time, 17:42 I prayed, not because I had a hangover, 17:44 not to get a girlfriend but I prayed for my heart and my sin 17:49 and so that was the opening night of my start 17:53 and I started attending the Seventh-day Adventist Church 17:56 right after that... and I just... just... 18:02 eating up everything I could, 18:05 people would have me over from church, 18:07 people did Bible Studies with me, 18:09 people gave me books... Ellen White books, 18:13 I'd watch Doug Batchelor' s program on 3ABN. 18:17 I started the TV... 18:19 the regular TV started dwindling out of my life, 18:22 I just... I was getting accustomed to something all new. 18:27 Hmmm... hmmm... how beautiful is that, really! 18:31 when we realize that Jesus Christ 18:36 is not just someone out there, but that He loves you, 18:41 like... you, me, you, it's... He becomes so personal, 18:47 He became personal to you with that episode... 18:51 that incident... He became personal to you 18:55 and Holy Spirit just... He was wooing you 18:59 and just drawing you in what a beautiful testimony, 19:02 really, so, after that... 19:06 you started working in ministry? 19:11 What did you do, how did you get in ministry from there? 19:13 Well, I started out just working with the local church, 19:16 I was facing a lot of... 19:17 when I came in the church we had a lot of people 19:19 that liked to do Literature Work, 19:21 a lot of people worked the Fair Booths at local facilities 19:25 where there were large gatherings 19:26 and I just got my hands in on different things, 19:29 whatever... whenever we had something, 19:31 I'd go out with the different people in the church, 19:33 we had Miriam McNeil and she did a lot of Health Seminars 19:38 so I learned a lot of health... more how to eat... 19:41 different princ... 19:43 not principles but different things of treatments like 19:44 water treatments, hydrotherapy, charcoal. 19:48 Yvonne: Natural remedies... 19:49 Yeah, a pharmacy in the kitchen 19:51 and so I was very fortunate, 19:53 God had put a lot of people in my life 19:54 through the local church that helped me to learn things 19:58 so I learned a lot right there 19:59 and then years later I was asked by Stephen 20:03 to attend a meeting there on how to reach Muslims 20:05 and there was only, I think, maybe 6 or 8 of us that went 20:09 there were a couple of gentlemen there 20:11 by the name of Ronnie and Sam and they invited me 20:13 to attend the ARISE Program 20:15 so I attended the ARISE Program for about four months 20:19 and then after that things opened 20:21 where I was able to be a... a Bible Worker 20:24 at a local church in New York and that's... 20:26 that's what started my journey to New York City area. 20:30 My intentions were, I would go to New York, 20:35 work for four months and leave 20:37 because I did not want to be in the big city. 20:39 How long have you been there? 20:41 Well, I've been on and off here now for... 20:44 man! I'm trying to think how many years it's been, 20:47 I've been there for probably... 20:49 probably four years now on and off a little bit. 20:53 Yvonne: Wow! 20:54 Yeah and when I first went there, I had no intentions ever 20:58 but when I got there I realized that 21:01 one, God had opened the door for me to work there 21:04 specifically with Muslims through the Conference 21:07 the New York Conference there... 21:08 and also, He had shown me that... 21:11 that this was a city that needed to be worked... 21:14 and that's when I actually, 21:17 I gained a love to work the New York City area 21:22 there is nothing more than I liked 21:24 than to... to reach New York City. 21:26 New York has its own energy doesn't it? 21:29 I'm a New Yorker so... yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 21:33 So, let's go back to Stephen, so let's talk a bit about 21:36 what Christians and Muslims have in common, 21:40 what things do we share in terms of 21:44 beliefs and Old Testament and that kind of thing? 21:51 Well, I started attending General Conference 21:54 in North America Division Muslim Meetings 21:58 and I think I have been to every single one 22:01 held anywhere in the word since 2002 22:03 because I wanted to hear what the other people were doing 22:07 I took it upon myself to interview retired missionaries 22:11 I'd go there and listen to their story 22:13 because I didn't know Muslims, I didn't know... 22:15 Another thing that concerned me, I'd go to all these meetings 22:19 and there was no Seventh-day Adventist literature 22:21 at these meetings because no one had written anything, 22:24 the last book that had been written, 22:26 that was from a Seventh-day Adventist perspective 22:27 was 1979... and that's the one we shared with you, 22:29 so, I realized... when I started to go with my research 22:35 and I found this information, 22:36 I said, "This is great news because 22:39 the Muslim says our Bible is corrupted... 22:41 and you can never win the argument... 22:43 you know... I tried... 22:44 as others have tried and I also realized that 22:48 once you have a hard discussion with a Muslim, 22:51 that opportunity is closed forever 22:53 not unless the guy goes back and re-opens it, 22:55 that's why I was very careful of... 22:57 Jason and I... we say, "It's easier to reach a Muslim 23:00 but you've got to handle three questions very carefully. " 23:03 Oh, what are they? 23:04 Well, the Bible is... they want to say the Bible is corrupted 23:07 and you'd say, 23:09 "I really like what your Qur'an says about what Jesus is... " 23:13 and I smile and I don't go any further, 23:16 the tendency we have as Adventists is to say too much. 23:18 And then they always want to know about 23:21 the personality of Jesus and God and I say, 23:24 "Your Qur'an is so clear on what it says about Jesus 23:27 it's amazing... " I frown a little bit... 23:31 I act like I'm thinking... I say, 23:33 "You know, the Qur'an in Surah 1919 says that 23:35 Jesus received a gift of righteousness... 23:38 without that gift of righteousness, 23:40 there's no hope for me and you 23:41 to go through the judgment to see Jesus come," 23:43 I said, "You're Qur'an makes it very clear... " 23:45 now, a Muslim has never heard that from a Christian, 23:48 Right... a Christian quoting the Qur'an... 23:51 Because what you have to do, you want to get to the point 23:54 where you can just visit with a Muslim... 23:56 and what Jason and I have found 23:58 and others that are here in this work, 23:59 "if you can't get inside of the Muslim's 24:02 friendship... within a matter of a minute and a half 24:04 to two minutes, you've done something wrong" 24:06 because a Muslim wants to talk about the end time, 24:11 they want to talk and we talk about... 24:14 the other thing about Jesus is, "Your Qur'an makes it so clear 24:17 that when God gave His Word, it says in your Qur'an, 24:21 that His name is Christ Jesus," 24:24 I say, "That's so clear, so the Bible has the same principle... 24:27 that Jesus is the Word of God" 24:28 and so, a Muslim has never heard that from a Christian before, 24:33 you've neutralized their concept, 24:35 you've established credibility in the Bible 24:38 but the prophecies that we found 24:40 in the old Adventist charts, in 1843... the Millerites... 24:45 and then in the 1850 chart 24:47 where we show them that they're in the old Adventist Eschatology 24:51 all of a sudden... a Denomination of people 24:55 are saying, "You Muslims are in the Bible" 24:58 and you smile when you say it. 25:00 That literally works... 25:01 we've tracked up and down the streets of Istanbul, Turkey, 25:04 for three days... 25:06 my Muslim friend who became a follower of Jesus 25:09 and I'd roll those old charts out 25:12 and we got it to the right group of people one day 25:16 and they listened for... 25:18 they said, "You got 22 minutes, Stephen, 25:20 to sit... to talk about this... " 25:21 Yvonne: They put you on the clock... 25:23 Oh they put you... you always run by the clock, 25:25 they never go over... you got to be... 25:27 because Muslims are very structured in legalism 25:29 and so you've got... 25:30 until you become friends with them, 25:32 you've got to play the role 25:34 and so, I told them the story, I said, 25:37 "You Muslims shed your blood 25:38 to give me the right to be a Seventh-day Adventist... " 25:40 I said, "God called you people 25:42 that's why you had Suleiman the Magnificent... 25:44 that's why you have these in your history... 25:46 because God wanted you on place when Luther and Melanchthon 25:51 were going to be killed by Charles the Fifth... 25:53 when he was going to go and execute the Pope's wishes" 25:56 and I said, "You're men, your ancestors... 25:58 you don't even know about... shed their blood 26:00 to give me the right to be a Seventh-day Adventist 26:02 and I have a responsibility 26:03 to tell you that you're in the Bible... " 26:05 when that all took place, 26:07 the man that we were there to see 26:11 he said, "Wait a minute... " 26:12 20 minutes later, he went over against the wall, 26:15 turned his back to us, he came back and he said, 26:17 "Tomorrow... " he looked at his watch... 26:19 he said, "I have an interview for you 26:20 at one of the largest newspapers in Istanbul 26:22 about Seventh-day Adventists" 26:23 and he said, "Can you go to Ankara?" 26:26 He said, "I have you on a live call-in program 26:29 on Friday night... " this was Wednesday... 26:31 Yvonne: Hmmm... my! 26:32 Stephen: And he says, "Can you go?" 26:33 Well, you know, we pray about things, 26:35 we didn't have to say, "We'll have prayer... " 26:36 but we said, "Yes, we'll go there" 26:38 and so those are the kinds of things when a Muslim hears... 26:40 they're in the Bible... in a positive way 26:43 rather than arguing about this or that... 26:45 which is ridiculous, 26:47 we have found it so easy to reach Muslims... 26:50 and Jason... he puts this to everyday 26:53 on the streets of New York. 26:55 Give us an example, Jason. 26:56 Well, I'm not sure how long ago it was here in New York City 27:00 but there are Muslims everywhere on the streets there 27:03 and the number one thing is 27:04 when you're coming to visit with a Muslim 27:06 is you want to say the greeting, Salaam-Alaikum 27:09 that means, "May God's peace be upon you" 27:11 just like when you're reading the Bible 27:13 and Jesus ever entered a house, 27:15 He said, "Peace be unto this house" 27:17 well the Muslims... they'll put their hand over their hearts... 27:22 it's like the western world giving a handshake, 27:24 they put their hand over their heart, 27:26 that means you're close to me, 27:28 so you'd come up and you'd say, "Salaam-Alaikum" 27:31 in a greeting and... 27:32 normally the Muslims will look at me 27:34 and they see this white man from the west 27:37 and they're like, "Oh, you're a Muslim?" 27:41 I say, "No, I am a 27:44 Seventh-day Adventist" and normally they... 27:46 they're not sure if they're hearing you wrong, 27:49 if they understood what you said, 27:51 so they'll be like... "Se... se... seventh... " 27:54 you go through it three or four times 27:56 and pretty soon you're just like, 27:58 "Seventh-day Adventist... it's okay if you can't pronounce it" 28:00 and they're like... and they'll say, 28:03 they'll always say, "What is that?" 28:06 And then we normally share the things 28:08 that we have in common right away, 28:10 I'll say, "Well as a Seventh-day Adventist, 28:12 we're a group of people that don't believe in eating pork" 28:15 and the one reason I share that right away 28:18 is because a Muslim looks at a Christian and believes... 28:21 because all of Christianity today for the most part, 28:25 says that, "Jesus gave the authority 28:28 and blessed and changed... 28:29 that we can eat anything and drink anything we want. " 28:31 So when you come to a Muslim, 28:34 and you say, "I don't eat pork, I don't believe in drinking" 28:38 they'll say, "Why?" 28:39 you say, "Well, because of the Bible... 28:41 the Bible shares that with us" 28:43 and so, we've got different literature 28:45 that we give to the Muslims that share all the verses 28:47 in the Bible that speak against drinking alcohol and eating pork 28:51 because what you're trying to do is, 28:53 you are trying... remember, 28:54 just like we as Christians are scared of Muslims and their book 28:58 they're just as scared to look and open our Book. 29:00 Yvonne: Hmmm... 29:02 Because they've been taught from little babies and kids 29:05 that our Book is false and not to read it. 29:07 Hmmm... 29:08 So, just as Jesus... when He walked this earth, 29:12 He gained the confidence of all people 29:14 and that can be done through many different ways 29:16 but what you're doing right now when you meet a Muslim, 29:19 as a Seventh-day Adventist for the first time 29:21 and you bring these first few things, 29:23 what you're stating to their mind is... 29:26 is that you are actually following truth 29:28 as they know to be truth... 29:29 Yvonne: Right. 29:31 So they're like, this person... 29:32 there's something specifically different about this person. 29:36 Yvonne: Yes. 29:37 So no matter who you work with, 29:39 if we share something we have in common with truth, 29:42 they relate that to honesty and things of God 29:46 and they're very willing to open up too 29:49 because just like we're a little sketchy and full of fear, 29:53 they are too... because they're attacked day after day 29:57 by Christians saying, 29:58 "Jesus is the Son of God and Jesus died on the cross... " 30:02 they've heard it thousands of times... 30:04 we're not the first ones to bring that to them. 30:06 Right... right... I love the idea of what you guys are doing 30:12 in terms of quoting from their book... 30:14 showing the validity... co-relation, I want to say, 30:21 between their book... the Qur'an and our Book... the Bible 30:25 and showing that the Bible teaches, "Don't eat pork," 30:31 the Bible teaches about not destroying the body 30:36 with alcohol and things like that, 30:37 so, what you're doing... and by quoting... 30:41 and giving them specific quotes, 30:43 that... to me... is like... establishing a rapport... 30:47 the first thing you're doing is establishing a rapport... 30:51 because just like you said, 30:53 everybody's a little sketchy about the other person's book, 30:57 right, I'm kind of like... "Okay... " 30:59 so they're looking at you like the Bible is corrupt... 31:03 and the average Adventist is looking at them like, 31:06 "Well, we have the truth and we're going to... " 31:09 but the real deal, I think, and what I hear you saying is, 31:13 establish that rapport and work within the framework 31:18 of their timing and that kind of thing. 31:20 One of the things I've learned 31:21 and it wasn't that many years ago, 31:23 two years ago, I came up with flash cards, 31:25 1 plus 1 is 2... 9 x 9 is 81... 31:29 and then I have an Algebra equation... 31:31 I used that mainly within Adventist circles 31:34 I said, "I went to a conventional school, 31:37 one plus one... I learned that in First Grade, 31:39 but I learned 9 x 9 is 81... that was Fourth Grade" 31:43 and I said, "Algebra... I got into that at Seventh Grade" 31:47 I said, "When we talk to Muslims, 31:50 the problem that most of us have had... 31:52 we want to talk Spiritual Algebra in the first two minutes 31:55 and you lose it... and you never get the 31:57 opportunity to reach that Muslim. " 31:59 If we teach in increments... 32:01 if the First Grade Teacher... she had to have known 32:04 basically... basic Algebra to get the Teaching Certificate, 32:09 but she never taught a single First Grader... Algebra, 32:12 she only taught 1 plus 1... one of those simple things... 32:15 it doesn't mean she didn't know it... she knew it... 32:18 and that's one of the things we teach in our classes 32:21 that people know how to reach Muslims, 32:22 you've got to incrementally sound in thinking 32:26 and not let a Muslim push you to do Spiritual Algebra 32:29 because, otherwise, you'll blow it that way too, 32:32 they want to push you. 32:33 Ah... unpack that a little bit for us. 32:35 Well, there's some things you just don't move to, 32:37 that's why I smile... and not normally a natural smile 32:41 but you learn to smile... and you say, 32:42 "I really like what your Qur'an says, da... da... da... da... 32:44 and there is probably, Jason, 32:48 Jesus is mentioned how many times in the Qur'an? 32:50 Man, I can't remember now exactly... 32:51 I think it... I don't want to say for sure 32:55 but I want to say it's over 25 actually, probably 35 times. 32:58 And that is the most common use proper name in the Qur'an 33:02 and so... it's... Yvonne: Jesus? 33:05 Stephen: Yes, yes. 33:06 Jason: Now the Muslims call Him Isa... 33:08 so if you're reading in Arabic... 33:09 Stephen: Yeah, and so, you play into their logic, 33:13 Number 1: they've never... let me say this, 33:16 we Seventh-day Adventist and all Christians, 33:18 we have the Bible, if you're talking to a Baptist 33:20 or Methodist, you've got your Bible, 33:22 I believe this... and I believe this... 33:23 this is what it says... a Muslim never does that. 33:25 We find that when we train our people, 33:28 they really know the Qur'an better than the Muslim does 33:31 because Muslims... their concept of salvation is 33:36 "I need to recite the Qur'an in Arabic 33:38 and I don't need to know what it means" 33:41 that's how they receive salvation... they believe... 33:43 Yvonne: Hmmm... 33:44 So when we start talking about these verses, 33:48 they've never... they... I've never had a Muslim 33:51 in all the years I've been doing this, 33:52 say, "You're... the Qur'an says this... " 33:54 I've never had him say that. 33:55 Yvonne: You're kidding... Stephen: Never... 33:57 Yvonne: So when they go to the Mosque, 33:59 they're not learning verses, 34:03 I know they pray but they're not... 34:05 Stephen: Well, they're learning in Arabic but they don't know... 34:07 they don't have to know what they mean. 34:10 Many Muslims don't... can't speak Arabic 34:12 but they learn it to hear it and to recite it... 34:14 even though they don't know the meaning of it. 34:16 I see, I see... so when you've talked to different Muslims 34:21 they've never quoted... ever... 34:24 No, it's very common for us as Adventists 34:26 to be giving them an insight 34:27 as to what the Qur'an says in their language. 34:30 Jason and I... we met a Muslim Publisher, 34:33 the largest English Qur'an translation program 34:36 in the world, he's right in Queens, New York 34:39 and Jason and I went to do business... 34:41 spent seven hours with this man, this man was so insightful, 34:44 he never once challenged us possibly, we just talked, 34:49 and one of the things he mentioned, he said, you know... 34:51 he said, "I believe 98 percent of Muslims 34:55 have never read the Qur'an in their own language, 34:58 he said, "The concept of Islam is 35:00 that they have to learn in Arabic 35:02 but they don't need to know what it means so what good is it?" 35:04 That's what he told... 35:05 and we had a Muslim old man tell us... he was a Publisher, 35:07 those are the kinds of insights, 35:09 another Muslim told me once, he said, 35:11 "We have learned and we accept that the Qur'an came 35:15 as a revelation from God, who can argue with God? 35:19 That's why we just read it and we have to accept it. " 35:22 Once that Muslim told me that... I realized... 35:25 "Well, I can get away using the Qur'an 35:27 without the Muslim saying anything to me... " 35:28 once I learned that concept, it's opened up the whole door. 35:32 A Muslim can never say, "Oh, the Qur'an doesn't mean that. " 35:35 Now, what they'll say is, 35:36 "You have taken it out of context" 35:38 or "You have to read it in the Arabic script" 35:40 now, when a Muslim tells me that... 35:42 I smile at them and say, I smile and say, 35:45 "Gallup did a poll a few years ago... " 35:47 and I said, it was interesting... 35:49 and I said, "You know it's found that only 18 percent of Islam 35:52 can read and write Arabic" 35:53 I said, "Allah is going to have mercy on my soul" 35:56 and I smile and that's all the further I go... 35:59 and they never push it further, never... 36:01 So there's never a question of interpretation, 36:06 like, they don't say... when you quote a verse from the Qur'an, 36:12 for example, they don't say, "Well, it means this... 36:17 it has another meaning... " 36:19 they just take it as face value and that's it. 36:22 That's close, but what they will say, 36:24 "You need to read it in Arabic" they'll throw that at you 36:28 and that's what... 36:29 But they can't read it in Arabic... many of them, right? 36:30 Most of them can't... yeah... Yvonne: Okay... 36:32 They can recite it to try to trick you, 36:34 not unless you meet an Arab... 36:36 then they can handle it. 36:38 Yvonne: Right... right... 36:40 Jason: That's their way of getting around the issue. 36:41 Okay, so, what... what kinds of breakthroughs 36:46 have you had with establishing the rapport 36:50 and then letting them... well, before I go there... 36:54 how do you then let them know about Jesus and His death 36:58 and resurrection because they don't believe in the cross, 37:03 right? so how do you... or do they? tell us. 37:06 Well, Number one... no, they don't... 37:08 but their Qur'an says different. 37:10 Yvonne: Ah... 37:12 Stephen: In Surah 37... and this was a result of 37:16 getting into this... the Newspaper interview 37:20 that I just earlier... mentioned that we had the next day, 37:23 we went into this man's office, 37:25 myself and my friend Asif who was a Turk 37:29 and he could speak Arabic as well as Turkish and English 37:34 and so... we went in there and we... 37:37 this newspaper publisher in English communicated with me 37:41 and he said, basically, and I was very disappointed 37:44 because he didn't... he wasn't taking notes 37:45 and he didn't have a recorder out... 37:47 I said, "This is a waste of time 37:48 I've never been to a newspaper they're not taking notes... " 37:50 and he said, "Would you write an article 37:53 in our Newspaper every week... " 37:55 he said, "that shows what 37:57 Seventh-day Adventists believe and about the Second Coming?" 37:59 Well, what are you going to say? "Let me pray about it?" 38:02 No, we said "Yes, we could do that. " 38:04 And I'm sitting there just in afterglow, 38:06 I'm thinking... "Wow, wow... I got to... " 38:08 I like to scream... 38:09 So you can't show any emotion, well, so this time, 38:14 I'm sitting there just in afterglow... 38:16 and he's speaking to Asif 38:18 in Turkish and English and back and forth 38:21 and I'm processing in my mind 38:23 "What am I going to write, what am I going to write? 38:25 I'm processing this as quickly as I can 38:27 I said, "We got to talk about Jesus... " 38:29 so I said, "Well, I've got to get the... " 38:31 I kind of raised my hand like a First Grader, 38:33 got his attention, and I said, "You know, I think there's 38:36 something you need to understand... " 38:37 and I said, "You know, when I write, 38:39 I've got to talk about Jesus, so I know how Islam looks at Jesus" 38:42 and so he's listening... and I went to... 38:47 I referred to the Qur'an Surah 37, 38:50 I said, "You know the sacrifice that's written in the Qur'an 38:53 about Abraham and his son... " 38:55 now Viewers... just think... I said, "Abraham and his son" 38:59 I didn't say what son it was so when you talk to a Muslim... 39:02 Stephen: That's not the issue, it's the issue is the sacrifice 39:05 and so I said, "You know, that sacrifice... 39:07 in the Qur'an it says that it was a momentous sacrifice" 39:11 and I said, "that was not just a regular sheep, 39:17 this was something special... " 39:19 when I made that emphasis, 39:21 Asif is sitting over here to my right 39:24 he now starts to pick up the conversation 39:27 and he speaks to the Publisher. 39:29 Yvonne: Is Asif a Christian? 39:30 Asif is a follower of Jesus, 39:32 yes, he's the one that wrote the book 39:34 about finding Jesus as a Muslim, 39:36 and that's... this one here we showed you that one... 39:39 so, anyway he started to take over the conversation 39:43 and he said, "Can we speak in Arabic?" 39:44 And I said, "Go ahead... " 39:46 All of a sudden I'm... and I didn't think about this 39:50 for like, six or seven months later, 39:52 I'm now understanding in English what they're saying in Arabic. 39:55 I didn't realize it for... like I said... 6 or 7 months. 39:59 So the Holy Spirit kind of gave you the gift of tongues 40:03 of the interpretation... yes... wow! 40:05 and so, I'm listening to this... and Asif says, 40:12 "You know, in Arabic... 40:14 the momentous sacrifice means Azim... " 40:16 and I'm listening... and he says, "You know, 40:20 Azim is one of the 99 names for God in the Qur'an 40:24 so the momentous sacrifice was a figure of God being sacrificed 40:30 and this Muslim guy was like... he processes it... 40:35 and he's going like this... Azim and then he says, 40:39 "You're right... you're right" 40:42 and Asif says, "The Qur'an talks about the 40:45 sacrifice... it's in the Qur'an, it's right here... 40:48 and it says, His name is Azim 40:49 which is one of the 99 names for God" 40:51 and so, when I heard this I said, 40:54 "This was discussed between two Arabs in less than 3 minutes" 40:59 I said, "How come no one's ever figured this out before?" 41:05 Hmmm... 41:06 And so, once we understood that, now, the young man... 41:12 it's a long, long story here, he's now working for us... 41:17 the Newspaper Publisher... over there 41:19 and doing translation work for us... 41:22 and has submitted his life to God. 41:26 Yvonne: Praise the Lord... 41:27 But what we found is a highway to a Muslim's heart for Jesus... 41:32 and to share that with Seventh-day Adventists... 41:34 they think we're all lunatics. 41:36 They tell us the Qur'an is evil and all these things... 41:39 what can be evil when it says, 41:41 "Jesus received the gift of righteousness... " 41:43 or that... "Jesus is the Word of God... " 41:45 or that... or that the Qur'an is saying, "Go back... " 41:47 you know there are four verses in the Qur'an 41:49 that talk about the Sabbath... they condemn... 41:51 all four verses condemn Sabbath breakers. 41:53 Yvonne: Hmmm... 41:55 So, I mean, those are the kinds of things that... 41:56 Yvonne: And the assumption is that the Sabbath is 41:58 the Seventh-day Sabbath that we... 42:00 Stephen: Sabbath is Sabbath... Yvonne: The Biblical... 42:01 Stephen: Yeah, yeah... Yvonne: Okay... 42:03 Stephen: Those are the kinds of things we found... 42:06 it's kind of like the people who've got the leprosy... 42:08 they're up there beating on the door and saying, 42:10 "Hey, you got to go out here and look... 42:11 all the stuff's out here... " 42:12 People just find this so hard to believe 42:15 but if we can get them on the street, 42:18 Jason can take them... they see... it's there. 42:20 So, what you're doing then is... you're establishing rapport... 42:25 you're quoting from the Qur'an and you're trying to... 42:30 you also show them who Jesus is from the Qur'an. 42:34 Stephen: Yes. 42:35 That way you're starting from a place 42:39 that they can identify with and that they validate... 42:43 they validate the Qur'an 42:45 and you validate the Qur'an in a certain way 42:49 because it seems like, you guys are saying, 42:53 these are the elements of truth here... found here. 42:56 I want to make this clear because this is going out, 43:00 we're not saying that we leave them with the Qur'an 43:03 because in Matthew 6:33... 43:06 "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness... " 43:08 we teach the concept of righteousness, 43:10 that's why "Jesus received that gift of righteousness... " 43:13 because if you and I as a human being 43:16 don't have that same gift of righteousness, 43:18 of what the Bible says... there's no hope for anybody 43:21 because we want to point them to the second coming 43:24 and one of the things when I did my research in looking, I found, 43:28 "How come all those Millerite believers got along?" 43:31 They were Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians... 43:33 they didn't quarrel... they were perfectly united, 43:36 they reason they were... 43:38 they were focused upon Jesus' soon return... 43:40 and character development... the power of the in-dwelling Christ. 43:43 Hmmm... hmmm... 43:45 And so we've taken that same principle 43:46 and put it into working with Islam 43:48 and it always works... 43:50 I mean, it comes quickly with Muslims. 43:53 Is the Second Coming in the Qur'an? 43:56 Stephen: No... Yvonne: Okay... 43:59 Stephen: But there's a judgment that if your sins go... 44:01 if your sins have not gone to judgment first, 44:05 then you're going to go to hell... 44:06 Those are the kinds of the verses we see there, 44:08 they don't allude to it but you look at other verses... 44:11 the person who wrote the Qur'an... 44:15 and I'm picking my words carefully here 44:17 or put it together or whatever, 44:19 is referring... "If you don't believe me 44:21 go back and look at the Bible or look at the Book. " 44:24 They refer to the Bible constantly in the Qur'an. 44:26 So the Scriptures are known as "the Book" in the Qur'an. 44:32 Stephen: Yes... yes... 44:33 The Qur'an... it talks about the last day and the resurrection 44:36 but it won't go into great details like the Bible would 44:38 about the Second Coming of Jesus 44:40 or go into the fine details... 44:44 Hmmm... hmmm... so, some of the people that... 44:47 because our Viewers love stories... some of the people... 44:50 did the Muslims that you have approached with this... 44:53 do many of them see the validity of Christ... 44:58 do they then... does it then kind of propel them 45:01 into their own search... are they searching... 45:05 like where are some of the people that you... 45:08 you've brought this message to? 45:10 Well, the young man that wrote this book, 45:13 it took him eight years from the time he stumbled across 45:16 who Seventh-day Adventists are till he made a decision. 45:21 I have not seen a lot of Muslims take it upon themselves 45:26 to do detailed study and research. 45:28 That's one of the things that I struggle with a little bit, 45:32 spoon-feeding is one thing but you've got to have people 45:37 who are self-starters... and... but I have found that... 45:41 that the Muslims who are seeking 45:43 are wanting to know more. 45:45 We've got a group right now in a Middle East Country... 45:47 I went to a wedding celebration 45:49 and one of the relatives came up to me... 45:51 I'm sitting at the table 45:53 and the Newspaper Publisher is sitting next to me 45:57 and they're speaking to me... 45:59 and they're going through a translator... she says, 46:00 "Can you come out and dance with me?" 46:02 Now, this was just line dancing... 46:03 and I don't know why I gave this answer 46:09 but I'm thankful I did, 46:10 I looked at her and I said, "You are another man's wife 46:15 and I'm not to touch you" 46:17 And she pulled back on me like this... 46:21 kind of... the facial expression was serious 46:24 then she leaned forward with a smile and she says, 46:27 "That's the way it's supposed to be... " 46:30 Now, the next day when the wedding was over, 46:33 she went and told the whole family of what I had said, 46:38 now we have the opportunity to go back 46:41 and do an Evangelistic Effort for the whole family 46:44 which is close to 60 people because of what I'd said 46:47 because now I'm trustworthy and those are the kinds of things 46:51 we start to see opening up 46:53 and there are so many things opening that we see happening 46:57 because what we have all found, 46:59 before we got there, the Holy Spirit beat us to it. 47:01 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 47:02 It's the Holy Spirit that's leading these people 47:04 and we need more Seventh-day Adventists 47:06 that can catch the vision and not the argument... 47:09 but catch the vision... 47:10 Yvonne: Yes... to minister to the Muslim Community. 47:16 Yeah, I had Jason... 47:18 Jason is seeing somebody on the streets that became a follower 47:21 became a Seventh-day Adventist, a Muslim. 47:24 Yvonne: Ah! Tell us Jason. 47:25 Jason: We got a young... oh, let me go back... 47:29 it goes back to the time I was visiting the 47:31 Seventh-day Adventist Church and one Sabbath... 47:33 Yvonne: Was this in New York? 47:35 This was in New York City yeah, 47:36 there was an old gentleman there by the name of George... 47:38 and George... he told me this story... 47:42 he finds out that I'm trying to share with Muslims, 47:44 he says, "Jason, I need help, what can I give a Muslim?" 47:49 He says, "I live underneath a Mosque... " 47:51 he says, "These people pray all the time, I hear their prayers," 47:54 he says, "It's disturbing to me but why won't I help them?" 47:57 And I didn't have much on me but I had the 1850 chart 48:01 that Steve mentioned earlier, so I gave him that chart 48:04 and George took this chart back... 48:06 Now, what's on that chart? 48:07 It talks about the Daniel 2 image, 48:09 and it's got Revelation 13, it's got the 3 Angels' message, 48:14 the Sanctuary and on the right-hand side there 48:17 it's got the fifth and sixth trumpet 48:19 dealing with the war between Catholicism and Islam 48:23 and so I gave him that chart 48:25 and he gave that to that Muslim man... 48:27 the man liked the chart, he eventually says, 48:30 "I want to start coming to your church... " 48:33 so he started coming to the local church 48:35 and became a baptized Seventh-day Adventist 48:38 off that chart... and so 48:41 so God's working in many ways... 48:43 I'll tell another story we had down south there... 48:44 we approached an Imam as something we can share with 48:48 to a little bit about Isaiah chapter 60 48:50 that talks about the Muslims specifically 48:51 and we visited this Imam... two other friends and myself, 48:55 Yvonne: For those who don't know what an Imam is... explain. 48:59 An Imam is like a pastor or a teacher 49:01 someone that's within the authority of teaching 49:04 within their congregation. 49:06 Stephen: It's lower than a Sheik Yvonne: Okay, okay. 49:09 Anyways, we share with him that we're Seventh-day Adventists 49:13 a little bit of what we had in common. 49:15 I said, "I'd like to share with you that 49:18 Isaiah chapter 60 talks about the Muslims 49:21 entering heaven... Jannah... Paradise... 49:24 I says, "I want to share that with you because 49:26 because most Christians say you're all going to hell... " 49:28 I says, "I want to give you some hope" 49:29 so we shared that with him and some other things 49:32 and here's what he said, 49:34 he said, "I've been waiting 25 years 49:36 to meet a group of people like you," 49:39 he says the Qur'an talks about the people... the Book... 49:41 he says, "I've been waiting 25 years... " 49:44 he says, "I never knew that these people were alive" 49:46 he said, "I always thought it was for the past... " 49:48 he says, "I had no idea it was for now" 49:50 yeah, and so that's an Imam that we've become good friends with 49:54 and we meet a lot of Muslims that have a lot of interest, 50:00 sometimes you're open to go further 50:03 but when we look back at Bible History, 50:05 we see that God was always preparing a people 50:08 before... before... and we look at the loud cry 50:11 and the things to happen in the future 50:12 when you look at the Bible, it talks about the... 50:16 there will be branches that will be broken off, 50:19 others will be grafted in, 50:20 in order for someone to be grafted in, 50:23 that means, you can't just take a seed and graft it to the tree, 50:26 that means that has to have some growth on it 50:29 before it can be grafted in 50:31 and I'm going to suggest that the Muslims 50:34 God is growing them where they're at 50:37 and preparing them and sometime in the near future 50:40 He's going to graft them in. 50:42 Stephen: Amen. Yvonne: Hmmm... 50:43 Yeah, and so if we could be patient 50:46 and look at the life of Jesus as He was there on that cross, 50:50 everyone fled... but look at how many days later 50:54 then all of a sudden... it erupted... 50:56 and there were all kinds of followers... opened 50:59 and it just spread and took off 51:01 and so, when we look at Isaiah 60... 51:04 Isaiah 11:11... God has a promise for these people 51:08 which you as a Seventh-day Adventist 51:10 and a Muslim that may be listening, 51:12 it talks about us coming together as a people 51:16 and just like Isaac and Ishmael both buried Abraham... 51:22 Abraham prayed for both his sons 51:25 and we get to be a part of that answered prayer... 51:28 Stephen: Amen 51:29 Yvonne: Hmmm... that's beautiful so... 51:31 we really do have a mission to achieve with the Muslims, 51:39 we really do... we have a message... 51:41 we have a mission... 51:42 and anybody that's really seeking truth... 51:46 the Holy Spirit... 51:48 that's His job... to guide them into all truth 51:51 would you not agree with that? 51:52 Stephen: Oh yes. Jason: I agree... 51:54 If I could share one thing, 51:56 Ellen White speaks in the Book Prophets and Kings 52:00 Hope for the Heathen, page 374, 52:03 she talks about Isaiah chapter 60 52:05 and she says that these prophecies 52:09 are being brought forth in fulfillment in today 52:12 and then she says, 52:13 "This is the church's appointed work... " 52:15 so that means, God has given the Seventh-day Adventists 52:20 appointed work as Isaiah chapter 60 52:23 and that's specifically to share with the Muslim people. 52:26 Yvonne: Hmmm... 52:28 One of the things, in Turkey we found... 52:30 as I was sharing this for 22 minutes... that information, 52:34 we get through... and after they do all these things, they say, 52:38 "We had a prophet... " they didn't say, "a prophet" 52:41 "we had a visionary... " or whatever... in the 1920s... 52:44 that said... there was to be a group of Christians 52:47 that came to Turkey 52:49 that had the truth for this hour about Jesus... 52:51 and he said, "we think you Seventh-day Adventists... 52:54 from what you said here... are those people" 52:56 and people can look that up on the internet... 52:58 write down the word, Said Nursi... 53:04 and then you read about that, 53:05 when they said that, you realize that 53:07 this isn't just Adventist Evangelism, 53:10 this is God working and we're His... 53:12 we have the opportunity to be His workers in these fields... 53:16 and to get people to listen to this story... is rare... 53:19 people just don't want to hear this because... "those Muslims, 53:21 you know what they do... da... da... da... da... " 53:23 I really don't care what they do they need to hear the gospel. 53:26 Yvonne: That's right... that's right... 53:28 it has to go to every nation, kindred, tongue and people 53:32 and we are to cry aloud and spare not... 53:36 so we have to give the gospel to everyone 53:39 and I just believe that some of the information 53:43 that you've given us today is just information that... 53:47 if someone has a desire to minister to Muslims, 53:51 you're giving us a real ground for... kind of... 53:55 where-do-you-start place 53:56 and I appreciate that so much... like... 53:59 tell... just give us if you would... 54:02 a few steps in these last minutes that we have 54:05 a few steps like... establish rapport... 54:08 what are some of the steps in ministering to Muslim people? 54:13 Jason, give the greeting again 54:14 and explain that because that is the key. 54:16 The greeting is when you visit with a Muslim, 54:18 you want to say, Salaam-Alaikum 54:19 means, "May God's peace be upon you" 54:22 and the Muslim will open up right then and there... 54:26 that's already the entering wedge... 54:29 it's like us coming together and saying, 54:31 "Happy Blessed Sabbath" 54:33 you already know it's a brother and someone that's kind to you. 54:36 Now, if they forget what he just said 54:38 and the pronunciation is on... go to Google... 54:40 and type in Muslim greeting... search 54:44 and you get it right there. Yvonne: Great. 54:45 Jason: Or you can just say, "Salaam... " 54:47 and they will know what that means... "Salaam... " 54:49 Yeah because people get like... A-Salaam-Alaikum... 54:52 and then Wa-Alaikum-Salaam and all that stuff, all mixed up. 54:54 Yeah, if you say that wrong, 54:56 they'll correct you and smile about it. Yvonne: Oh they will? 54:57 Yeah, they're still happy, they don't care. 54:59 Yvonne: Okay. 55:00 They've never been spoken to kindly by a Christian, 55:02 it's that easy... never argue. 55:05 We forget to show love, like, 55:08 the whole idea is to show love 55:11 so that we can have a... establish a rapport... 55:14 so the greeting... okay... 55:16 And then, you know, if anything ever should come up, 55:19 you never want to argue, 55:21 remember, debating never wins a heart... ever, 55:24 it never wins... you can say something, 55:27 if they want to disagree, just leave it be then... 55:30 don't talk it anymore, don't keep pushing the envelope 55:32 but have them over to your homes, 55:35 have them... invite them over to eat, 55:39 find a place that's... 55:40 where they could eat where there's no pork... 55:43 mention you don't eat pork... that's crucial... 55:45 Well, that works for us too, so... 55:47 Stephen: That's very true. 55:49 Jason: And most Muslims, they look at Christians 55:51 and Christians say, 55:52 "I can do whatever I want and I'm still saved... " 55:55 and when they see you as someone that's actually following Jesus, 56:00 they will see something different about you, 56:03 ask them questions about their books... 56:06 ask them questions about their family, 56:08 get to know them a little more personally. 56:11 And we talk about this because 56:15 it's not about rules, regulations and keeping the Law, 56:19 it's about the indwelling Christ... 56:21 a Muslim gets it... Christians don't... 56:24 they struggle with that, a Muslim gets it. 56:26 Really? Why do you think... why do you think so? 56:30 Because the Quran says, 56:31 "Jesus received the gift of righteousness" 56:34 they can't... they don't know how to go through the judgment, 56:36 that's why they go to the fast... the 30 days Ramadan 56:40 I said, "This is the way... Jesus was on this earth 56:44 as a human being and He walked the walk... 56:46 He showed... because your Qur'an says that 56:48 He's the nearest to God in heaven, 56:50 and if He had received the gift of righteousness, 56:52 you and I need the same gift of righteousness 56:55 so we can be nearest to God too. 56:57 Nice... nice... 56:59 Don't say too much... we've been very short here 57:03 and be just as short with a Muslim. 57:04 Wooo... you guys have given us some incredible information 57:08 thank you so much... thank you for all you're doing, 57:11 for your hard work... your diligence... 57:13 the way you have kind of zeroed in on what we need to do 57:17 and the steps to establishing rapport... 57:20 we thank you and we really appreciate all you do, 57:23 we have your websites, we'll put up your websites 57:26 so that Viewers can get in touch with you 57:28 because maybe some people want to get involved 57:30 and you should get involved 57:32 and thank you so much for being with us... 57:36 what a blessing... and I pray that you will really 57:41 get connected... get connected to some ministry, 57:45 if you don't feel called to do Muslim Ministry, 57:48 get connected to some ministry, time is short... 57:52 Jesus is coming... we have to be ready... 57:54 well, we've reached the end of another program... 57:57 join us next time... because you know what? 57:59 It just wouldn't be the same without you. |
Revised 2016-11-14