Urban Report

Coming Out Ministries Spotlight

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Jason Bradley (Host), Ron Woolsey, Wayne Blakely, Michael Carducci, Danielle Harrison

Home

Series Code: UBR

Program Code: UBR000179A


00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:05 may be too candid for younger children.
00:09 Once gay... always gay?
00:11 Stay tuned to meet some folks who don't see it that way.
00:15 My name is Yvonne Lewis
00:16 and you're watching Urban Report.
00:41 Hello and welcome to Urban Report.
00:43 Our guests today are members of the
00:45 'Coming Out' Ministries Team.
00:47 Jason and I had a chance to talk with them
00:50 when they came here to host a season's worth of programming
00:53 on Pure Choices which is
00:55 Dare to Dream's program on sexual purity.
00:57 Take a look.
01:00 I am so happy to be sitting here
01:03 with the 'Coming Out' Ministries Team
01:05 on the set of Pure Choices because they just did a
01:07 whole series of programs for you to enjoy... with Jason, yea...
01:14 and we are going to be talking to this wonderful team today
01:18 because what they bring
01:20 is something so unique
01:22 and so God-inspired
01:24 that I know that you're going to be blessed
01:26 so, let's just kind of go down the line...
01:28 I'm going to start with Danielle,
01:30 we're going to go down the line and find out who you are and...
01:34 just... before we go into your testimonies,
01:36 just give us your name and where you're from.
01:38 Sure, I'm Danielle Harrison and I'm currently living in Georgia.
01:41 Yvonne: Okay.
01:42 And I'm Ron Woolsey and I'm pastoring in Arkansas.
01:45 Yvonne: Great.
01:47 I'm Wayne Blakely and I live in Vancouver, Washington.
01:49 Yvonne: Great.
01:50 Michael Carducci and I'm from East Tennessee.
01:52 Yea, you know, when I first met...
01:57 I first met Wayne and Mike, right?
02:00 Was it Wayne and Mike and
02:02 you had a couple more people on your team at the time.
02:04 Mike: Ron was with us.
02:06 But I wasn't... Ron wasn't with you... the day I met you,
02:10 I don't think... at ASI?
02:12 He might have been on the team
02:13 but I don't think he was there the day that I met you.
02:15 Ron: I wasn't at the Booth... Mike: He wasn't that far back...
02:17 I'm going all the way back and I got to talk to you
02:22 about what you were doing and I felt like...
02:24 this is a "God thing... "
02:26 this is counteracting the counterfeit
02:30 because your ministry is a ministry to...
02:34 people who were living the homosexual lifestyle
02:38 and so... I'd like to just kind of go down the line
02:41 and find out a bit about your testimony...
02:45 how you got to where you are now... in Jesus
02:49 so let's start with you Danielle.
02:50 Sure, well, when I came into the family environment in my home,
02:55 my parents were really in Development
02:57 in a neighboring town and
02:58 it was there that I met a girl who lived down the street
03:00 and she was actually being sexually abused
03:03 by someone else in her life
03:05 and so she was learning things about her body
03:07 that she shouldn't have known
03:08 and she started trying those things with me.
03:11 So, I was probably about seven or eight
03:13 when I started interacting with this same sex, actually,
03:16 and so, of course, this opened up the door for other addictions
03:21 and other sexual sins down the road.
03:23 Masturbation soon became an addiction for me
03:26 at that tender young age and I came out
03:30 as bisexual... in...
03:32 well, I guess it was about 15-years old in high school
03:35 and I remember my dad sitting me down
03:39 and telling me that it was okay for me to be who I am
03:43 and he would still love me
03:45 and he didn't say, "It's okay if you're gay... "
03:49 but we basically both knew that's what he was talking about
03:53 so my life took on a whole new level of freedom after that
03:57 and I was about 16 when that conversation happened.
03:59 Where were you spiritually during this time?
04:02 I had been exposed to Christianity... growing up...
04:06 baptized at the age of 9
04:08 but it wasn't really a converted experience,
04:11 it was just... "this is what you do when you love Jesus. "
04:14 It was at a local Baptist Church
04:16 that I'd gone to, off and on with a family friend
04:18 and a few years before that conversation happened,
04:22 we had moved in next door to an Adventist family...
04:26 a Christian family, and my sister had...
04:28 probably around that time was being baptized
04:31 into the Adventist church
04:33 when I was positioning myself to walk out into the world...
04:36 and I think that my identity and my sexual identity
04:41 had a lot to do with that.
04:42 So, I wandered in the wilderness for a few years
04:47 and I realized that that wasn't what I had hoped it to be.
04:51 I ended up in a pretty dark and scary place at the end of it
04:54 and the Lord... He helped me to see my need.
05:00 How did you find Him?
05:01 Well, that sister who had become an Adventist...
05:05 she went out to an Adventist Health Institution
05:08 with her husband so that he could do an internship
05:11 on the farm out there for the summer
05:13 and they invited me to go with them
05:15 and I just expected to be there for six months
05:18 to work on the farm for a little while
05:20 but the Lord really met me there
05:21 and at this point I had walked away from that dark place
05:24 and was searching spiritually
05:26 and I really met Jesus Christ there
05:28 I really started to develop a relationship with Him
05:31 and understand who He was.
05:32 And I was baptized in September of 2012
05:37 and it was after that that the Lord just started
05:40 opening up doors for me to share my testimony
05:42 in different churches and different venues
05:44 and while 'Coming Out' Ministries
05:46 was basically being formed,
05:48 that's when I was turning away from the world and all of that
05:53 so it was 2014 in May that I started working with the guys
05:58 so I'm a new addition to the team.
05:59 You're the baby of the team.
06:01 Danielle: Yes, on multiple levels.
06:03 Yeah, yeah, right, right... that's great, thank you.
06:07 So, what was it like...
06:09 what was it like... experiencing it from the church side?
06:14 Were people nurturing... did they accept you
06:18 or did they... were they criticizing you
06:21 or how was that?
06:23 As far as... where I was in my journey
06:26 like... as I was coming into the church?
06:28 Jason: As you were coming into the church.
06:31 You know, the place that I went was
06:33 just what God knew that I needed
06:36 and when I went there,
06:38 nobody knew about my sexual preference,
06:42 they knew that I was in a pretty abstract place
06:47 in my spiritual understanding
06:49 and I remember expecting them to start treating me differently
06:52 once they learned that I wasn't a Christian.
06:54 I remember the morning I was sitting with the doctor
06:56 and his family in their home having breakfast
06:58 and he asked me if I was a Christian and what I believed
07:01 and I thought, "Oh, here we go... "
07:03 they've all been really nice so far
07:05 but this is going to be the end of that
07:07 but it wasn't... that's not what happened
07:09 they nurtured me even more,
07:12 they just scooped me in under their wing
07:14 and they met me where I was at, even in the mess,
07:17 they were willing to wade through the mess with me
07:20 and relate to me where they could
07:23 and walk with me through it and God knew that I needed that
07:26 especially, because I had seen a lot of hypocrisy
07:29 in the realm of Christianity when I was younger
07:31 and that was a lot of the reason why
07:33 I didn't want anything to do with the church.
07:35 And that's a blessing, I think that a lot of times
07:39 the common misconception is that
07:40 as Christians we don't condone homosexuality...
07:44 we don't condone that behavior because it's not...
07:47 in the Bible... God doesn't condone it
07:50 but I think that it's viewed by the world
07:52 that we are against the people,
07:58 it's not the person... it's the sin...
08:01 so we love the person and the people...
08:05 but we hate the sin... as God would say
08:09 it's just like a heterosexual person being promiscuous
08:13 or if you had a kid that steals
08:17 or is a murderer or something like that
08:20 like you love your son or daughter
08:23 but you don't like or condone what they're doing.
08:26 Danielle: Amen.
08:27 But it's interesting that the Christian church, I think,
08:30 as a whole... has given that representation
08:33 of this "hate" thing.
08:34 You know, I learned that one negative comment
08:37 can destroy ten good comments
08:39 and so the voice that we heard
08:41 as we were walking in the gay culture was
08:44 that, you know, Christianity hated queers,
08:46 you know... and that was the message we got
08:48 in and out of the church at the time.
08:49 So, I think the Christian church has some responsibility to take
08:54 for the message that they've been receiving.
08:56 Even the terminology "queers" like, it made me kind of
09:01 cringe a bit because now it's part of the LGBT cue...
09:08 categorization and that... to even introduce that word,
09:14 is like... it's not a pejorative anymore, is it?
09:17 I thought that was weird too
09:20 because it has always been considered a derogatory term.
09:23 Yvonne: Yeah, yeah.
09:25 Jason: But I guess it's like the "N" word...
09:28 and recognizing it can... and stuff like that.
09:29 Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, interesting.
09:32 Ron, tell us a little bit about your journey.
09:35 Well, I grew up in a very spiritual environment
09:38 and I was a spiritual young person,
09:40 I grew up though with a very deep dark secret
09:43 of having been molested when I was four-years old
09:47 and that left me very confused throughout my life... growing up
09:51 but I wanted to be a Christian
09:57 and I didn't know anyone else who had
10:00 the same struggle that I did
10:01 and the same-sex attractions and all of that,
10:04 so I masked it, I think, very well,
10:07 no one ever knew I'd been molested
10:10 and I was repeatedly violated in grade school
10:13 because once, I think, a victim, it's easy to be victimized again
10:19 it's hard to say, "No," you don't know what to do
10:22 and so you just kind of freeze and just endure
10:27 but I chose to go to Christian schools
10:32 and to be a student missionary,
10:34 I chose to marry thinking that that would be the solution
10:39 to all of my sexual confusion
10:42 and I strongly encourage people today...
10:45 young people today... don't be deceived into thinking
10:48 that marriage is the solution to anything.
10:50 It can be the beginning of woes
10:53 if you're not married to the right person
10:55 for the right reason and with God's blessing
10:58 but I did marry a lovely, Christian lady...
11:01 I wanted to have a Christian home and a Christian family
11:04 and we had a couple of children together
11:07 but my confusion just was intensified
11:10 and so, I ended up wrecking up my marriage
11:14 and fell headlong into the gay life
11:18 but what is so startling to many people
11:22 is that I trained to be a...
11:24 I was studying to be a medical missionary
11:27 so I had a degree in Theology and graduated with honors
11:32 and so that's why so many people were shocked
11:35 when I went into the gay life rather than going into ministry
11:38 or going on with my medical training
11:40 so I lived many years in the gay life...
11:43 You went back to school... for Theology
11:46 after the marriage was dissolved?
11:48 No, I had the degree in Theology while I was married
11:52 and... but when I was called into ministry
11:57 it kind of startled me because I didn't feel worthy of it
12:00 because of my mental struggle
12:02 so I wouldn't accept a call into ministry
12:05 and then I ended up just breaking up the marriage
12:08 and going into the gay life.
12:10 So I lost my family in my youth...
12:12 and spent many years in the gay life... blaming God
12:17 because even counselors advised
12:21 that I was someone who could not be changed
12:24 and these were primarily Christian counselors
12:27 and even pastors
12:28 so I went into the world very bitter and angry against God
12:32 and yet I was also quite frustrated with this concept
12:35 that God was impotent
12:37 that He could not change or save someone like me
12:40 because I knew that He was omnipotent
12:44 but yet this concept made Him appear impotent.
12:49 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
12:50 So eventually, with this great frustration,
12:53 I turned to the Word of God.
12:54 I wanted to find answers... not for professors
12:57 but for myself... for my own salvation
13:01 and it's just really fascinating to me now
13:04 to realize that everything I needed
13:06 was right there all the time,
13:08 it's right there in the Word of God,
13:09 I found every answer to all of my gay questions
13:13 in the Word of God
13:14 to the point that I could turn and walk away.
13:17 That is... the fact that you can even say that,
13:20 that you could turn and walk away...
13:22 in a prevailing ideology now that you're "born this way,"
13:28 this is who you are, accept it, embrace it,
13:32 share it, promote it, I mean, really...
13:36 it's... this whole concept of, "you could walk away"
13:41 all of you... could walk away...
13:43 is so unheard of and I want to explore some more of that later
13:48 but that... to me... that is...
13:50 it goes against... you're going against the tide.
13:53 Yeah, everything that's...
13:55 that the Community has been saying...
13:58 you just erased... eradicated that.
14:01 Well, I could have invented those arguments, I mean,
14:03 those were all arguments that I made,
14:05 every argument that you hear today,
14:07 were arguments that I made... I defended...
14:11 I was not convinced myself
14:13 but I could convince other people.
14:15 But in turning and walking away, I need to make it clear
14:18 that does not mean "without temptation"
14:20 because when I walked away, it was a fierce struggle
14:23 but I learned to love Jesus more than my partner.
14:26 I was in love with two men, there for a while
14:30 that as I beheld Jesus, I became...
14:32 I realized that I loved Jesus more and I had to make a choice.
14:35 So, yes, I struggled with great temptation after that
14:39 but as I continued to walk towards the Lord
14:44 and away from the old life, I was surprised at how quickly
14:48 my new life took hold... within one year
14:52 I was married again to a lovely Christian woman
14:57 and we now have two more children,
15:00 the very night I was baptized, I was invited into ministry...
15:04 well, I was invited to preach the next Sabbath
15:07 and that was 24 years ago
15:10 and I've been in the pulpit ever since the night I was baptized
15:13 and I now pastor two churches in Arkansas
15:17 when I'm not on the road with 'Coming Out' Ministries
15:21 or doing my concert ministry and what I had read...
15:24 one of the things that I had read
15:26 that really helped change my life
15:28 was to the effect that there's nothing that God expects of us,
15:31 it is not for our own fulfillment and joy
15:34 and that His plan for our lives
15:37 far exceeds anything we could even imagine for ourselves
15:41 and that's my testimony today
15:43 that my life today does far exceed anything
15:46 that I ever experienced in the gay life
15:49 and I think I can speak for all of us,
15:53 we've been on both sides and we're staying on this side
15:56 because we know... we see this side...
15:59 God's side is so much better than anything that we...
16:03 that we were addicted to in the world.
16:08 So, when you... when you were in that state of
16:13 embracing "who you were" and actually just...
16:19 just into that whole lifestyle, was there happiness there?
16:25 Was there fulfillment there? What was the prevailing feeling
16:31 that you had when you were embracing it?
16:34 When you were living...
16:36 when you were full blown out there?
16:37 Well, there's a lot of fun, there's a lot of excitement
16:41 and I filled my life with everything that I could think of
16:46 in entertainment, in sports, hand-gliding, roller-blading,
16:51 biking, going to the beach, snow skiing,
16:53 I kept my life very, very busy
16:55 but in between some of those times,
16:59 there was great loneliness, heartache, heart break,
17:01 depression and all of that
17:04 but the focus of that kind of life, in my experience,
17:09 was self... self-gratification
17:12 and I filled my life with things that pleased me
17:16 and that's empty... that is not fulfilling
17:19 so I had fun and excitement and happiness
17:22 but I did not have lasting joy and peace and assurance
17:27 which I now have. Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm...
17:30 Amen... Amen.
17:32 What would you say was so binding about the lifestyle,
17:34 like, what is it that causes a lot of people to
17:38 stay and stick with that lifestyle?
17:40 It's addiction... it is absolutely an addiction.
17:44 That self-gratification, the stimulus, the pleasure,
17:48 but... and I can say that
17:51 very dogmatically if I can use that term,
17:54 because the Bible talks about the bondage of sin.
17:59 Sin is addictive and today... homosexual behavior
18:03 is being referred to... in many circles as...
18:07 "the experimental drug of this age"
18:10 and people... because it's being so celebrated
18:14 and promoted,
18:16 people are actually experimenting with it
18:19 having no idea how addictive it can be.
18:22 Hmmm... would you all say the same thing
18:25 that that's what kept you in that lifestyle?
18:28 My first reaction was... feelings...
18:31 the whole Movement for me was based on feelings
18:34 and I've been repressed for so long that all of a sudden,
18:38 now I can express my feelings
18:40 and that was part of the addictive drive... was...
18:43 it was all driven by feelings and that was...
18:45 made it even harder coming out on the other side
18:47 is recognizing truth versus feelings.
18:50 Yvonne: Hmmm...
18:51 Ron: That's a good point.
18:53 Well, I'll tell you that when people think of addiction
18:56 they think, "Oh, so they were just a bunch of sex maniacs"
19:00 the addiction isn't just... it isn't just of a sexual nature
19:04 it is because you suffered greatly in your life...
19:07 from... like being bullied or harassed
19:11 or having great depression
19:13 and now you're addicted to excitement...
19:16 is really what it is and I would steer clear
19:19 today from using the term, "Lifestyle"
19:23 because many gays are taking offense to that today
19:27 because we're lumping them all into the same activities.
19:30 Not everybody participates in the same activities
19:33 as I did... when I was living in the gay culture
19:36 and I would like to try to shift people today
19:39 in helping them realize it is a culture,
19:42 just like heterosexuality would be considered...
19:44 a culture of heterosexuals rather than...
19:46 we don't call it a heterosexual lifestyle
19:48 and so gays are taking great offense
19:51 to the term, "Lifestyle" today
19:54 sometimes shifting... if you talk about culture,
19:56 it's more inclusive of all kinds of people
19:59 with all kinds of feelings and things that they participate in.
20:03 But there is nothing actually in the gay culture
20:07 that is appropriate from the standpoint of a Biblical nature.
20:14 What was your journey like?
20:16 Well, you know, brokenness comes in
20:18 all kinds of different shapes and sizes
20:20 and so, for the Viewer,
20:22 I would like Viewers to think about
20:24 what your own brokenness might be
20:26 and everyone is looking for a pat answer
20:29 for what causes homosexuality
20:31 so this is just our stories that we're sharing
20:34 and we realize that homosexuality comes from
20:37 many different kinds of scenarios
20:40 and situations in your life,
20:42 mine was such that my birth mother was expecting
20:46 and only desiring to have a baby girl,
20:49 she didn't want a boy under any circumstances
20:52 and so, when I was born, she was angry
20:55 before I was two-years old,
20:56 she had broken my arm in two different places
20:58 on two different occasions
20:59 and so, I was adopted by a Christian family
21:03 and was raised in a Christian home of which I believe today
21:06 that God took me and placed me in that environment
21:09 and prepared me for what He has me doing today.
21:12 The journey wasn't something,
21:14 the fallen nature isn't something
21:17 that God desired for everyone
21:18 but He knew that each of us would have a story,
21:21 He knew that it was an environment he could put me in
21:24 and that... as Deuteronomy says
21:26 that if you're raised in the way that you should go,
21:29 that one day, you would return
21:31 and so, He knew that that would happen.
21:33 I endured and suffered harassment and bullying
21:37 because I was effeminate,
21:39 I wanted to be the girl that my mother...
21:40 my birth mother wanted me to be
21:42 that would get me love and acceptance.
21:44 My new parents didn't understand what was going on
21:47 I was running around the house screaming,
21:49 "I don't want to be a boy, I want to be a girl"
21:51 and so I suffered greatly
21:55 all the way through school,
21:58 I thought... if I can get through 12 years of school
22:00 I'll never step foot inside another classroom,
22:02 because of the harassment and the hurt
22:05 that I was dealing with in my life,
22:07 at the age of 18, I was working at Loma Linda University
22:15 and I ended up meeting a guy there who was in the gay culture
22:19 who said to me, "You're gay!"
22:22 And I didn't even know what he was talking about
22:25 but he sensed... he could tell from mannerisms
22:28 or from commonalities that...
22:31 he could tell me that face to face...
22:32 So prior to that, you had never had
22:35 a same-sex relationship... prior to that?
22:38 I would say that in growing up that there were some detours
22:43 in experimentation and exploration
22:46 and also, what might be even considered abuse
22:50 as I had heterosexual boys who were introducing me
22:54 into what masturbation was all about
22:57 and it was actually at that point that I thought,
22:59 "Okay, well I'm normal" because they were engaging with me
23:01 and I was drawn towards men
23:03 but they didn't stay in that behavior very long,
23:06 they headed off and headed for for girlfriends and everything
23:10 and I thought, "What's wrong with me?
23:11 It's not happening, God... I didn't ask to be this way. "
23:15 And so, here's someone telling me, "Well... well you're gay"
23:18 and then a couple of minutes later he says to me,
23:22 "Wayne, Christianity breeds homosexuality"
23:26 and I said, "Wait a minute, what are you talking about?"
23:30 "Well," he said, "you're gay, I'm gay,
23:32 I go to school with other guys in college that are gay,"
23:36 he said, "You know, the church has done a great job
23:38 of telling us that homosexual behavior is sinful... "
23:41 and then they stop and then they say nothing,
23:44 they say, nothing about how God can change that
23:46 what's redemptive, how do we please God,
23:50 nobody did anything and I think it's because,
23:53 that today, we're still suffering in this idea
23:56 that the church is still in this present state of looking at us
23:59 like, "Oh, you guys are... you guys are the queer ones
24:02 you know... the weird ones,"
24:03 when they're not looking and saying that,
24:05 yeah, they have things that they whitewash, like gossip
24:09 and pride and a whole list of other things
24:12 that are in 1st Corinthians 6:9 through 11,
24:15 where it talks about, who will not enter into heaven
24:18 but a lot of those things we've already whitewashed
24:20 we're trying to do the same thing today with homosexuality
24:24 by setting it aside and saying, "You can maintain
24:27 your gay identity even after you're converted"
24:30 and I note that we're probably going to talk
24:32 a little bit about that but for me,
24:34 I then said, "You know what? I think you're right. "
24:37 And I said, "Okay, God, I can't do anything about this"
24:40 I said to my parents, "I'm sorry, this is who I am"
24:43 and they said, "Wayne, we don't know the causes for this,
24:45 but we love you and God loves you
24:47 and you'll always be welcome at home... always know that. "
24:52 and so for the next 40 years... I would live a life
24:55 that was totally absorbed in the gay culture,
24:58 nothing stopped me, drugs, promiscuity,
25:02 I lived in 12 years of male prostitution
25:05 I was looking for somebody who could affirm that I mattered
25:09 that I belonged and that I was loved
25:11 and God let me go down that road
25:14 until... not the church... but God came to me
25:18 one day, when I'm sitting in my bedroom
25:21 and I'm thinking, "Where does this end?
25:23 I know God's Word, I know the Bible,
25:25 my destiny is going to end, I'm only going to have one life
25:29 because I know this isn't pleasing to God. "
25:32 To any gay person watching this that claims to be Christian,
25:37 please go back, please look at what pleases God,
25:43 because He loves you so much,
25:46 don't be deceived like in the Garden of Eden
25:51 like Satan was able to do... by dazzling all kinds of things
25:54 before us and those things felt good,
25:57 eating the fruit was very tasty
25:59 and it brought on great knowledge for... like 3 seconds
26:02 and then she was miserable, right?
26:03 And so, don't come to Judgment Day and say before God,
26:08 "Oh, well, I did what I thought was best"
26:10 when you can find what is best in the Word of God
26:13 and He can tell you and you can believe it
26:15 and it seems impossible to walk away
26:18 but He will not let you down and so I sat there
26:22 and I thought, "I don't know God,
26:25 I've accused God of being gay,
26:27 He made me gay but... "
26:28 see we blame all kinds of things on God that God didn't do
26:31 it's because of our fallen nature,
26:33 it is because of the deception of Satan
26:35 that people indulge in pornography,
26:38 indulging in extra-marital affairs
26:40 and pre-marital sex and homosexuality
26:42 and masturbation, I mean,
26:44 these are the things that Satan does, not God.
26:47 Yeah, they come natural to us because sin is natural
26:50 we're not doing what God wants and God said,
26:53 "I'm right here, I'm right here...
26:55 you're finally starting to think about me,
26:57 I want a relationship with you, I want to engage with you,
27:01 I want intimacy with you,
27:02 will you give me your heart... your life?"
27:04 and I was like, "Oh... oh... I wasn't expecting this
27:09 and I don't want to make any major decisions right here,"
27:11 so I started immersing myself into a church environment
27:14 for three months before I went to the pastor
27:17 who was totally unprepared for something like this,
27:20 and the church is still unprepared,
27:22 they were like, "Well... I wasn't expecting a
27:25 converted homosexual... I didn't think that was possible"
27:28 you know, we were like... limiting the Word of God
27:30 and they didn't know what to tell me
27:32 and so, slam dunk, I go... down into the water
27:35 and guess what, I didn't come up straight,
27:38 you know, I still came up...
27:41 and I still had temptations and attractions towards men
27:45 and I still do today but God is like...
27:48 "Ah... I'm right here, I'm right here, I got you"
27:50 and so, He says, "all I want is your heart
27:53 if you give me your heart,
27:55 I'll walk with you on this journey
27:57 you can always turn to me,
27:58 at times I'll probably carry you, Wayne,
28:00 because you'll think you're going to be alone
28:02 but I will never leave you or forsake you
28:04 you can't see me... but you can know that I'm there
28:07 and you can see me spiritually and know that I am God
28:10 and that I will carry you through... to the very end
28:13 and so, on my parents' 67th anniversary,
28:18 I was baptized and I said,
28:20 "Yeah, I want God's way and not mine. "
28:22 And so, sure, today, yeah, there are struggles in it
28:26 there are people inside churches today
28:29 they're just waiting for you to fall
28:31 because they don't think that it's possible
28:33 and they try to limit God and I want to help them to see
28:38 that we can embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ
28:41 and that we can take on a new identity in Jesus Christ
28:44 not buried in my temptations
28:46 or anchored to my temptations and bondage.
28:48 Amen, Wayne, thank you, that's...
28:51 you guys are just... it's so inspirational
28:54 because, you know, there are a lot of things that
28:56 we don't know about...
29:00 we even need to know the right nomenclature, like, you know,
29:03 we don't know that we shouldn't say, "gay lifestyle"
29:06 and... versus gay culture, I mean,
29:08 there are just some things... so this is educational...
29:11 I mean... for us and for the Viewers...
29:13 because there are a lot of things we don't know
29:16 so you're helping us, because we need to know
29:17 how to reach out to our brothers and sisters
29:21 that are in that culture, I almost said, "lifestyle. "
29:25 Wayne: I mean, we slip, we do too.
29:27 Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:29 Wayne: We have to think about it
29:30 from the perspective of the gay person, yeah.
29:34 Yes, yes, Mike, tell us about your journey.
29:37 So, really, I think it began when I was forty,
29:40 when I came back to the Lord and I said to God,
29:44 "I want to know how this happened, I want to know... "
29:45 Came back? So you had been with Him before and then you...
29:48 Mike: I was raised... born and raised Catholic
29:50 and then I converted at 15 to Adventism,
29:54 my first homosexual experience was actually in Academy
29:57 with a roommate who'd been to juvenile detention.
29:59 I wanted to follow God,
30:02 I thought that I had an understanding
30:04 of who God was, but like Ron,
30:06 even with an education in the Bible,
30:09 I still didn't know how to claim the merits of a risen Savior.
30:11 I thought I had to be good to deserve His goodness
30:14 so, I left the church at 20,
30:16 couldn't find a way to bring
30:18 my sexuality and my spirituality together
30:21 so I walked out of church and at 40 years old,
30:23 through divine intervention,
30:26 it wasn't the church that called me up and came and got me,
30:29 it was my sisters' intercessory prayer,
30:32 two of my sisters... States apart
30:34 were praying together for their brother who was completely off,
30:38 and so, at 40 years' old,
30:40 through some divine circumstances
30:42 I got baptized... with a boyfriend
30:45 and a sexual addiction because the pastor didn't know
30:47 what I was struggling with and I came into this
30:50 evangelistic series on the last night,
30:51 gave my heart to the Lord but I was a complete mess.
30:54 I didn't even know how to relate to men in a non-sexual way
30:58 so, how could... how could a Savior
31:00 that died for me... not want me... sexually?
31:03 That's the thing that was going on inside of my mind,
31:07 so, as I got baptized, the Lord was moving and He knew
31:11 that I needed to make a public expression
31:13 of my desire to know Him,
31:15 I didn't care about the Adventist church
31:17 and to tell you the truth,
31:18 all I knew is that I was following Jesus Christ
31:21 and Him alone and I had faith like...
31:23 maybe a strand of dental floss, that's all I had,
31:26 if somebody would have gotten in my face
31:27 and said something about my boyfriend,
31:29 I would have been gone, and to tell you the truth,
31:32 I probably had a pretty good chip on my shoulder
31:34 I was hoping someone would say that
31:36 because then I could blame God again,
31:38 "Well, see, you messed up, not me"
31:40 and I couldn't help myself
31:42 but eventually, because my sister loved me,
31:45 because she didn't condemn me or my boyfriend,
31:48 she worked side by side with me in my salon as my assistant,
31:51 I had a salon with my lover,
31:53 I had, you know, other gay hairdressers in there,
31:56 and what was so amazing...
31:58 I thought she accepted my gay lifestyle... my gay culture,
32:01 my gay identity,
32:03 so, she was always kind to my lover,
32:05 she'd invite us over for holiday meals,
32:07 she never withheld me from
32:08 interacting with my nephew who was a baby,
32:11 so, she showed me what true Christian love was
32:14 which I thought was acceptance when really in actuality,
32:17 secretly she was praying for my deliverance.
32:20 So, when I came back to the Lord as a mess,
32:23 eventually the Lord addressed my boyfriend and I said,
32:26 "If you want... if you want me out of that life,
32:30 you've got to do it yourself
32:31 because I'm digging up my heels and I'll prove to you
32:33 if you could just convert my boyfriend,
32:34 we'd be this mighty team for you. "
32:36 And you know what?
32:37 God said, "All right, I'll get right on that... "
32:39 and within three weeks my boyfriend broke up with me.
32:41 Yvonne: All right "I'll get right on it and he was gone. "
32:44 I knew that was God intervening, this peace came over me
32:48 but then when I went home alone,
32:49 and I realized... "You're telling me God
32:51 that I'll never be in another relationship again?"
32:54 Not even thinking change was possible for me,
32:57 I didn't even want it, I was looking for any lie...
32:59 just tell me a lie so that I can keep my boyfriend
33:02 and my identity, I wasn't even interested
33:05 but as I read the Word of God and I realized now,
33:08 "All right, I was following Jesus
33:11 and he was the only one that I could relate to,"
33:13 and I cried out and I said,
33:15 "Why would you ask me to do that?
33:17 Why would you ask me to give up everything that I am
33:20 and everything that I've created because I didn't even think
33:22 that it was possible to change, I didn't choose this,
33:24 I didn't want this, but now that I'm here,
33:27 and now I have this great guy,
33:29 why would you ask me to give that up?"
33:30 And so, for months it was just me and Jesus Christ.
33:34 I would sob and I remember thinking to myself,
33:37 I'll never have someone to hold,
33:40 I'll never be able to tell someone that I love them again,
33:42 but during that time,
33:44 it was only Jesus that was holding me
33:46 and loving me and filling that emptiness inside of me
33:50 and I started to revive... I started to come alive again
33:53 and realize that I don't have to have a sexual encounter
33:56 to be satisfied, and I didn't even know that the
33:59 peace of Jesus Christ could satisfy
34:02 more than an illicit sexual situation
34:04 and as shocking as that was to me,
34:07 I really started to desire more
34:10 and when I saw the testimony of homosexuals that had actually
34:13 changed their lives and God had moved miraculously
34:17 in their life, then that was motivation,
34:18 there was a real feminine guy named Sy Rogers,
34:21 he's been doing this for many years,
34:23 very feminine... lived as a woman for a year and a half,
34:26 I struggled with transgenderism also as a little boy,
34:29 so, as I saw his testimony, I was so offended
34:31 thinking, "God converted that nelly person
34:35 or whatever, effeminate person... "
34:36 but what was so amazing is as I watched his testimony,
34:38 then all of a sudden I realized,
34:40 "Well, if God could do it for him,
34:41 then he can certainly do it for me"
34:43 and that was when, I started to really go in the
34:46 direction of... "All right Lord, you said you can heal me... "
34:49 in Ministry of Healing on page 17,
34:52 on the very first page it says
34:53 that Jesus came to heal men completely,
34:55 physically, spiritually and mentally,
34:58 and in the margin of my book, I put an "H" and a circle
35:01 and said, "There, it's on you Lord,
35:03 I can't change who I'm attracted to,
35:05 I can't change my desires,
35:06 but you say you can... this is on you,"
35:08 and as I started to claim those promises,
35:11 as I turned those pages,
35:12 divine healing really started to enter into my life
35:16 and that's been my motivation.
35:19 Amen, you know, what I'm hearing
35:22 from all four of you is that
35:24 there was a place of brokenness early on
35:30 early on... something happened that caused you to just get...
35:37 and we all have something that has gone on in our lives,
35:41 I mean, this is not like some indictment of you,
35:44 it's just an observation that early on something happened
35:49 and there was a need for healing and you sought connection,
35:54 you sought an answer to the problem...
35:58 the answer wasn't a sexual thing,
36:02 the problem wasn't a sexual thing actually...
36:06 what you were doing is seeking a sexual solution
36:09 to a non-sexual problem.
36:11 That's what... the problem was
36:13 the brokenness, but you needed the intimacy
36:17 and so you found it through same-sex attraction
36:21 and what God said to all of you in a sense is,
36:24 "Let me heal you... let me... let me fix it... "
36:28 because we all have stuff that we need to have fixed...
36:31 Jason: And we all look to fill the void.
36:32 Yvonne: That's right.
36:33 Jason: And a lot of times we'll look everywhere but Christ,
36:37 I turned... I did drugs and alcohol and stuff like that
36:41 and so... you look to all these other things
36:45 but you're still empty,
36:46 and even when you're making good money
36:48 and have the nice car and the house and everything like that
36:51 there's still the emptiness...
36:53 there's still the void that only Jesus can fill.
36:55 You know a lot of the dominant factors
36:58 that I see in homosexuality is a
37:02 perception of rejection
37:03 and I grew up feeling rejected by my father
37:07 and rejected by my peers and we become...
37:10 after years of dealing with this perception,
37:13 we become hypersensitive to that
37:15 and I think that's probably one of the reasons
37:19 today we have so much restriction on speech
37:22 and so forth... because now, a difference of opinion
37:25 is viewed by the gay culture as rejection
37:29 and rejection is not nice in fact, we'll call it hate,
37:32 and we need to be protected from hate
37:35 so we need to be protected from a difference of opinion
37:38 even if it's the Word of God... it's rejection.
37:41 So there's this feeling of rejection from God,
37:44 from the church and Society,
37:47 from our peers, from our parents or whatever
37:50 and the sexual fulfillment that you're talking about
37:55 is a counterfeit way to deal with that rejection
37:59 because we're now accepted, someone is accepting us
38:04 and a perverted acceptance is better than rejection.
38:08 and that's what we end up dealing with.
38:10 And let's talk about that a little bit,
38:12 I think that now... you don't see as much rejection...
38:15 you see more acceptance and how did that come about?
38:19 How did that shift in Society to where now
38:22 the gay culture is more accepted... socially accepted?
38:28 Because church congregations are taking their cue
38:32 from the gay community now and so the teaching is...
38:37 is that the imposition of what the gay community desires
38:41 the "world message... "
38:42 where God says to come away from the world
38:44 instead of being a part of the world
38:45 is being mirrored upon churches
38:47 and churches... in their ignorance...
38:49 instead of digging and getting the truth,
38:51 the love and truth message that they can offer,
38:54 they're just saying, "Okay, okay, I'm sorry
38:57 we hurt you and that wasn't right
38:59 and so, come on in and and we... "
39:02 not only do they accept the sinner
39:04 but they accept the sin with it.
39:06 Because like... when you're looking at the television shows
39:10 and stuff today... like... almost every television show
39:13 has some kind of innuendo in there.
39:16 Mike: It's normalized.
39:18 Jason: Yes, yeah, yeah, it's just blatantly open.
39:21 So, I think, part of what we're really talking about...
39:25 you said, Yvonne,
39:26 God was saying, "Let me heal you"
39:29 and instantly what came into my mind was,
39:31 No... God was saying, "Mike, let me love you,"
39:35 and it's interesting because
39:37 we're accused of not being loving,
39:39 that we have a hate message when really God is saying,
39:41 "Just let me love you and part of loving you...
39:43 you've got to separate yourself from the things that
39:46 keep you from my love. "
39:48 And after we started experiencing that love,
39:50 that's the only thing that drew me away from the things
39:53 that I desperately was trying to hang on to.
39:56 Yvonne: So... oh, go ahead Jay.
39:58 I would like to go down the line with each of you
40:03 and ask what advice would you give
40:05 to people that are in church when they encounter
40:09 someone in the gay culture
40:11 how do they go about showing them that they love them
40:16 and that they care about them and trying to welcome them
40:20 into the church
40:21 because it's a fine line without condoning the behavior.
40:25 Sure, well, I think one of the biggest things for me was
40:30 that I was expecting people to react a certain way,
40:35 I was expecting them to be surprised
40:38 and it was surprising to me when they weren't surprised
40:41 and I think sometimes we... we express a lot more
40:48 than is beneficial and we look at a person
40:52 and we assume we know their motives, their reasoning,
40:55 we look at a person and we think that they are just rebellious
40:59 and obviously they're just troublemakers
41:02 and they need to get their lives straightened up
41:04 but a lot of the times we are just honestly and earnestly
41:08 doing what we believe is true
41:10 with the information that we have
41:11 and so I would encourage people
41:13 not to look at someone and assume you know
41:15 what is going on in their life
41:16 and why they're doing what they're doing
41:18 but to just reach out to them
41:22 like you would anyone else and make yourself transparent
41:26 because when you are vulnerable enough
41:30 to make yourself transparent and open up to someone
41:33 about what you're struggling with,
41:34 it helps them to realize that... that you can relate to them
41:39 you can trust them... that they're not just coming...
41:43 I'm not just coming to you to try and expose your mess
41:46 because I'm a mess too, you know.
41:49 Yvonne: That's true, yeah.
41:51 And when we can have that kind of... that kind of love
41:56 that shows that we're all in need and that the remedy is
42:01 is big enough for any of that, for all of that,
42:04 for all of the mess and I would also say too
42:08 a life of example
42:10 speaks much more than any amount of words really can
42:14 so those are the gems that I would share.
42:16 Group: Amen. Yvonne: That's good yeah.
42:18 We are counseled that the most powerful witness for truth
42:21 is a loving and lovable Christian
42:24 and so, we need... as church members...
42:27 we need to befriend whoever comes to our church.
42:31 In my church, we have a fellow that has come in
42:35 that is a... he's a level 4 sex offender,
42:40 and he's registered and he has been put out
42:45 of all the different churches in the community,
42:47 but he is coming to our church
42:49 and he is finding that he is loved and he's cared for,
42:53 he's befriended...
42:54 there is a struggle with some of the members
42:57 in that area... but we're trying to educate the members
43:00 to be friendly and not hold this over him,
43:05 he is coming to church for a reason,
43:07 he wants help... and when we read the words of Jesus,
43:11 "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness"
43:14 we have to realize that the gay issue
43:17 may be symptomatic... like you were saying
43:20 it is a symptom... the gay behavior...
43:23 is really a symptom of something else much deeper
43:26 and a lot of times we need to realize
43:30 that there are so many other areas that need to be dealt with
43:34 before the behavior is confronted
43:38 because that can be down the list of things that the Lord
43:43 needs to take care of and so we need to work on
43:46 bringing them to Christ
43:48 and developing a relationship with Christ
43:50 maybe not even addressing the gay issue
43:52 until they bring it up because as they behold Christ
43:56 and come closer to Him... they will start seeing themselves
43:59 that there is something that is holding them back
44:02 and they may start asking questions
44:04 and we need to be instead... in season, out of season
44:07 to answer their questions that they bring forward.
44:10 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
44:11 Don't play... Holy Spirit Junior it's not becoming.
44:18 Yvonne: Holy Spirit Junior? Wayne: Yeah.
44:19 You know we've done a good job in many denominations
44:23 not just the one that we represent
44:25 of holding out the truth and just... making sure that
44:30 you understand truth
44:31 because if you understand truth,
44:32 you'll change, but I share in a presentation
44:36 that I have frequently,
44:37 you can't share what you don't have
44:40 and if you don't have...
44:42 if you personally haven't experienced
44:44 a personal, intimate love from Jesus Christ,
44:47 you're not going to do a very good job
44:49 of sharing that with someone else.
44:50 Open up your heart and thank the person
44:54 for being willing to share their walk, their experience,
44:57 what happened to them, what they struggle with
45:02 and let them know that they are loved,
45:04 that they are welcomed, don't be afraid that...
45:06 that you're not seeing change immediately,
45:09 the change that you expect to see
45:10 let God do the work, go to God in prayer,
45:14 be invitational to the person,
45:16 make sure that they're welcome in your home
45:18 share with them the things that God has done for you,
45:23 the things that you thought were impossible
45:26 and think a little bit about the fact that
45:28 that we haven't had a real good message
45:31 in our denominations today with regards to homosexuality
45:35 and the opposite of homosexuality... being holiness
45:38 you know... not heterosexuality.
45:40 Think about inviting 'Coming Out' Ministries
45:43 to come to your church and to share from a personal...
45:47 a very personal perspective
45:48 and a Biblical perspective at the same time,
45:51 you'll be surprised because what you might expect
45:54 from us might not be what you see,
45:55 what you may see is that you'll see the testimony
45:59 of what Jesus has been able to do
46:00 and some guidelines that God has given us
46:03 in the process that maybe we've overlooked
46:05 for a very long time.
46:06 That's great, how can people get in touch
46:09 with 'Coming Out' Ministries?
46:10 comingoutministries. org is our website
46:13 and you can click on: Contact
46:15 and we'll be happy to get you on the schedule.
46:18 That's incredible... thank you.
46:20 Jason: What about you Mike, what advice would you have?
46:22 I was thinking about all the answers that I wanted to give,
46:25 they've said but I think that
46:27 one of the things that we can definitely do is...
46:29 each one of us... is sitting here
46:31 because of intercessory prayer
46:33 and the damage of a message of saying,
46:35 "You're okay in your gay identity"
46:38 is the fact that... that means you'll stop praying for me
46:40 and it was only because Danielle's mother said to God,
46:43 "Interrupt her plans...
46:44 don't give her what she seeks, show her she needs you," right?
46:47 Ron's parents were dropping of books,
46:49 under his pillow, on a cabinet,
46:51 behind the toilet,
46:53 they were dropping off these books and praying for their son,
46:55 Wayne's mother and father... for 40 years...
46:59 asked an Elder to pray, after 40 years... and they said,
47:01 "Is it possible for my son to change to come back to you?"
47:04 and this Elder didn't want to dash their hopes and he said,
47:07 "Well, let's pray" but he didn't think it was possible.
47:10 Knelt down and prayed this faithless prayer,
47:12 they got up, his parents were crying
47:14 they'd been praying for their son for over 40 years
47:16 and then, that Wednesday,
47:18 was when Wayne called his parents and he said,
47:20 "I'm getting baptized this weekend"
47:22 forty years... and so, one of the things is...
47:24 we like to encourage people, "Don't stop praying"
47:27 God may not be able to use you but He could use something else
47:31 and so, if you think that this is acceptable,
47:33 then you won't pray and have the opportunity
47:36 to send angels to minister to someone's help
47:38 and then, don't drop the ball
47:40 when they start coming into church
47:42 and you're like... you don't know what to do
47:44 and what I love is...
47:45 is... God makes the gospel so simple,
47:48 there's not a criteria for the homosexual
47:50 and a criteria for the drug addict
47:53 and a protocol for somebody else...
47:55 it's all the same,
47:56 God says, "If I be lifted up... I will draw all men unto me"
48:00 and what ministered to my soul was not attacking my lifestyle
48:03 or my culture or even in my history,
48:05 just start showing me the love of Jesus... in how you live,
48:08 in how you represent the Word and then that draws them
48:11 and then let the Holy Spirit
48:13 worry about the converting of that person
48:15 and it may take a while. Yvonne: Right, right.
48:17 You know about being a praying mom, don't you?
48:20 Yes, I do... yes I do,
48:23 I was praying and continue to pray actually,
48:26 I've seen God do such amazing things,
48:29 He brought Jason back and I have an older son
48:33 and I'm still praying for him
48:35 and I know God is going to do that for him
48:38 and so, I'm just so grateful and all of you
48:41 are sitting here again... because of intercessory prayer.
48:44 It works... prayer works... don't give up,
48:46 don't give up praying for that friend, that family member,
48:50 that person that you know... that friend of a friend,
48:54 that friend on Facebook, don't give up
48:57 because God's got a plan... God's got a plan
49:01 He wants to give people the abundant life
49:04 and we have a part in that by praying.
49:08 What would you say has been one of the greatest challenges
49:12 for your ministry both within and outside of the church?
49:17 I think false accusation...
49:21 there are people that make assumptions
49:24 without listening to us
49:25 and so, there has been a history of "change ministries"
49:28 meaning that... a ministry is going to take someone
49:31 that is homosexual and make them heterosexual
49:33 and that's how you gain glory in God's presence by doing...
49:38 by changing your sex habits and there are therapies out there
49:42 like "reparative therapy" "conversion therapy"
49:45 we've got to get someone involved in that
49:46 so their life can be changed and a lot of damage has been done
49:50 maybe some good has been done by that
49:51 but a lot of damage has been done by these therapies.
49:54 This isn't "conversion therapy"
49:55 this isn't "reparative therapy?"
49:57 Mike: This is "heart therapy. "
49:58 Okay, okay, unpack it for us, unpack it...
50:00 Well, Yvonne, we really are a full spectrum ministry
50:04 and we've accused of trying to change
50:07 homosexuals to heterosexuals
50:09 but each one of us is still on a journey
50:12 of that healing, fortunately for Ron,
50:14 within a year he was married, he has children
50:17 and they're grown and
50:18 Danielle faces challenges of being a young woman
50:22 who has committed herself to ministry,
50:24 I didn't even think it was possible but several years ago,
50:27 I actually started to experience attractions to the opposite sex
50:32 and so, now it's like going through puberty twice
50:34 but... and then Wayne is in his own experience also...
50:39 of waiting for that one woman
50:41 that God might put in front of him
50:42 so, if you took five minutes to listen to us,
50:47 you would realize that we are not promoting heterosexuality
50:50 we're promoting holiness in Jesus Christ
50:53 and as that is our focus what's amazing is
50:55 certain things start to fall off
50:57 and other things start to come in.
50:58 I think there is a real misunderstanding
51:01 with a lot of Christians about the plan of salvation period.
51:04 Because one thing that we keep getting confronted with was
51:08 is this issue of temptation... have you ever been tempted
51:11 or are you tempted and the question
51:15 gives an impression that if we're tempted,
51:18 we're not changed into the image of Christ
51:21 or being changed into the image of Christ,
51:24 but Jesus was tempted in all points like as we are
51:27 yet without sin, He suffered being tempted,
51:30 He resisted unto blood striving against temptation
51:34 so, many Christians just don't seem to understand
51:38 the difference between temptation
51:40 and orientation for one thing,
51:43 and our orientation is the direction
51:46 we're choosing to go by God's grace,
51:49 it's not the direction Satan wants us to go
51:52 and so, we really are trying to educate Christians
51:56 to understand that this whole concept of temptation
52:02 and sin... that we're not... sin is not temptation...
52:07 or temptation is not sin,
52:09 temptation reveals Satan's plan for your life
52:13 but God has a plan for our lives too
52:16 and we're choosing to follow God's plan
52:19 regardless of Satan's efforts.
52:21 Sin... when you yield to that temptation...
52:24 when you give in to the temptation, that's one of them.
52:27 And claim the gift that God is offering you
52:30 of a new identity in Jesus Christ.
52:33 A new creature is what He promises in 2nd Corinthians 5:17
52:38 you don't have to linger in the past
52:40 and cling to that gay identity
52:43 or be a non-practicing homosexual
52:45 that's just things that
52:46 even the church is offering today... a new identity
52:49 but it's not the identity that Jesus has promised us...
52:52 let's make sure that we go to the Word
52:54 where God says, "Such were some of you
52:56 claim the identity that He's offering you today
52:59 no matter what you've suffered from... in your past. "
53:02 Yes, that's great, before we end
53:06 the time has flown by, this has just been so wonderful
53:09 you have done a series for Pure Choices
53:14 on Dare to Dream, in fact this is the second time
53:17 that 'Coming Out' Ministries has been here,
53:20 this is your first time Danielle
53:21 and we're so happy that you're part of it,
53:23 what do we have to look forward to...
53:27 what does the Viewer...
53:28 what kinds of topics did you cover on Pure Choices
53:31 because we gave...
53:32 you guys got this whole series here
53:36 so what would you say you cover during this series?
53:40 You know, our first series was called: The Gay Puzzle
53:44 and what we did is we basically gave our testimonies
53:47 and then... some of the topics
53:49 I think that were really depending on us personally,
53:51 now after we've been in ministry for four years, I think,
53:55 Wayne: Five...
53:56 Five, thank you, now what we've done is
53:58 we've gone much deeper and realize that there are
54:00 issues of transgenderism,
54:02 issues of prefixes before our titles
54:07 and we want to address...
54:08 Wayne: Parents... Mike: Yeah, parents...
54:10 we've interviewed parents and...
54:11 and talked about the deep emotional pain that they have
54:14 when we go to different venues,
54:16 we find that parents have a deeper shame
54:18 and guilt about what their children are going through
54:22 and so, we really started to reach out and realize
54:25 that there's a ministry involved in that as well.
54:28 So, I think we have a fuller picture of what we began
54:31 in our first series with you three years ago.
54:34 You know, our testimonies are given to inspire
54:38 and then... but we go beyond inspiring...
54:41 we want to enlighten and we want to equip the church
54:44 to deal with this issue in a very redemptive way
54:47 and we thank you for offering us the privilege
54:50 and the opportunity to do this on Pure Choices.
54:53 Well, we thank you, because this series
54:57 is just going to be so powerful.
55:00 Do you have anything Jay before we close?
55:03 Not only powerful but really educational
55:07 so a lot of people get an inside look
55:10 and I'm glad that you guys are address the question of
55:13 how should Christians go about welcoming people to their church
55:19 we need to constantly be building the church
55:21 and we want to see everyone in heaven,
55:24 Ron: Not willing that any should perish.
55:29 Amen, you guys are on the frontlines and so
55:32 I ask you Viewers to pray for 'Coming Out' Ministries
55:35 because they are truly on the frontlines here...
55:39 really going up against the Kingdom of darkness...
55:42 there's so much...
55:43 they are swimming against the tide...
55:46 so I thank you Mike and Wayne and Ron and Danielle
55:50 for all that you do for the cause of Christ.
55:54 Know that we love you, know that we are behind you
55:57 and I hope that our Viewers will be praying...
56:01 that you'll be praying for this wonderful ministry
56:04 because it's really difficult out there.
56:07 Thank you so much for everything and thank you Jay,
56:11 you did a great job, it's really good.
56:16 Make sure to check out this season of Pure Choices.
56:23 That was so powerful you know,
56:27 we are new creatures in Christ.
56:31 The Bible says in 2nd Corinthians 5:17,
56:34 "Therefore if any man be in Christ,
56:37 he is a new creature: old things are passed away;
56:42 behold, all things are become new. "
56:45 We praise God for the abundant life that He provides for us
56:49 if we'll follow him.
56:50 Thank you so much for supporting us here at Dare to Dream,
56:54 thank you for watching these programs
56:56 and we pray that you'll be able to apply these
56:59 spiritual principles to your life.
57:01 Please support us with your prayers and your financial gifts
57:06 and if the Holy Spirit impresses you,
57:08 please send your tax-deductible love gift to:
57:36 Also, you can like us on Facebook.
57:39 We welcome your suggestions, if you have topics
57:42 that you want us to cover in programming,
57:44 please let us know
57:46 and if our programs are being a blessing to you,
57:49 also, let us know that
57:50 because we want to know who is being reached
57:53 by these programs.
57:54 Our goal is to help people to find Jesus
57:58 through these programs.
57:59 Thank you so much for joining us,
58:01 join us next time
58:02 because it just wouldn't be the same... without you.


Home

Revised 2016-05-17