Participants: Dwayne Lemon (Host), Lance Wilbur
Series Code: TKS
Program Code: TKS000003
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00:30 Hello, my name is Dwayne Lemon.
00:32 And I'm Lance Wilbur. 00:34 And we want to welcome you to a True Knowledge of Self, 00:38 where we get to know ourselves from a Biblical perspective. 00:42 We have an opportunity today 00:43 where we're going to interview Lance Wilbur. 00:46 I had the privilege of being interviewed by him 00:48 to give him a little bit of my story, 00:50 but I'm especially excited about talking with Lance 00:52 and hearing about his story 00:54 because that same principle 00:55 that was in our previous episodes, 00:57 talking about overcoming 00:59 and the ability to do that by the word of our testimony 01:01 as found in Revelation 12:11. 01:04 I'm thankful because I had an opportunity 01:06 to share from a different perspective of my experience 01:09 in the hip-hop and R & B culture. 01:11 Brother Lance comes from a different experience 01:13 and I think his experience is going to speak 01:15 to many of the hearts of those who are viewing with us today, 01:17 so I'm very excited about this. 01:19 Lance, I'm really happy to have you with us, brother. 01:21 All right. 01:22 So that we can hear a little bit 01:23 about how the Lord has led you, in your experience, 01:26 as it relates to growing up outside of Christ, 01:29 outside of the Bible, 01:30 growing up in urban youth and urban environments 01:34 and so on, and how the Lord has led you. 01:36 I'll just go ahead and start 01:37 by just asking you a simple question. 01:39 Tell us where you're from, 01:40 tell us a little bit about your upbringing. 01:42 All right. 01:43 Well, I'm from Massachusetts, 01:44 still in the northeast and the east coast, 01:47 slightly a different experience. 01:49 I was born in a suburb, moved into the city, 01:52 there for a short period of time, 01:54 back out to the suburb in which I was born, 01:56 right outside on the outskirts of Boston, 01:59 and as, you know, a young man, 02:02 some of the same challenges as we discussed, 02:06 but I'm raised in a single-parent household, 02:10 a little different dynamic. 02:12 My father is in and out, 02:13 so it's not like I didn't know who he was, 02:16 but he was in and out. 02:18 And some of the memories, complete chaos, and violent, 02:22 domestic violence, and all kinds of madness. 02:25 So I had that coming up, so obviously, 02:28 there's the obvious void, 02:29 when you are growing up as a young man, 02:32 no father figure to speak of, 02:34 boyfriends coming in and out of the picture 02:37 with the mother, 02:39 really no consistent male figure to pattern myself after. 02:44 Now, if you don't mind, just, you know, looking back at that, 02:47 when you think about your experience 02:48 coming from a single-parent home, 02:51 and you said there was domestic violence, 02:52 was that something that was inflicted 02:54 on everybody in your household or was it just, you know, 02:58 how was that manifested. 02:59 How did that affect you, Lance? 03:01 Strangely enough, it was just between my father and mother. 03:04 I mean, my father never touched me, 03:06 never laid a hand on me, 03:08 you know, maybe once in a while for disciplinary sake, 03:10 but never struck me or anything like that, 03:13 but I have seen situations where, you know, 03:15 I've seen him do crazy things 03:17 that I won't mention for his sake 03:19 but the kinds of things that you never forget 03:23 and that you are helpless, 03:25 you know, at a young age, five, six, seven years old, 03:28 you're absolutely helpless. 03:29 You can't do anything to prevent it. 03:31 So it was traumatic 03:33 but it was something that became normal. 03:34 Now, this is interesting because, you know, 03:37 we are hearing unfortunate recent reports about young men 03:41 who go on a gun craze 03:43 and they will not only take the lives of others 03:45 but sometimes, they take the lives of their own parents. 03:47 Yeah. 03:48 In other words, it is something they saw from childhood 03:51 that's obviously stuck in their minds, 03:52 to the point that it seems almost 03:54 as if when they grow up and get older, 03:56 they are thinking, "Once I get my chance, 03:58 I'm going to let it loose." 04:00 Were these the kind of thoughts, 04:01 vengeful thoughts or anything that has gone on in your mind? 04:03 You can say that, but I was, I was... 04:06 I consider myself now looking back, 04:08 I was always thinking, 04:10 so I was always in my own kind of world 04:12 and trying to rationalize and think things through. 04:15 So I felt that I could control, you know, my aggression. 04:22 But if my aggression, you know, let go, 04:25 then it was going to be problems, 04:27 but I tried to, or I prided myself, 04:30 if you will, on my ability to control, 04:33 you know, my environment, my situation, 04:35 my actions, my behavior. 04:36 Okay. 04:37 So now, you know, you are growing up in a home 04:40 where it's broken and Dad is not around, 04:43 anywhere near to the amount he needs to be, 04:45 Mom is obviously trying to play a role of mother 04:48 and father as much as possible, siblings? 04:51 I had a younger brother eventually, 04:52 but he is like eight years younger to me so, 04:55 really I have half sisters that lived in different states, 04:59 so it was pretty much me, 05:01 and my little brother came along, 05:02 but, you know, we had a large age gap. 05:04 Okay, all right. 05:05 So now, growing up, you got your younger brother, 05:08 but, you know, there's a gap, so I don't know, 05:09 you probably didn't have as tight a relationship 05:11 with him? 05:13 No, as it, not like we grew up together. 05:14 Okay. 05:16 I was always way, in a whole another stage of life 05:17 as he is coming up. 05:18 Got you. 05:20 Okay, so now, you're growing up, 05:21 you're at home, 05:22 Mom is obviously trying to work to take care of you all 05:24 and so on, I would assume that 05:27 if Mom is trying to be mother and father, 05:29 and then on top of that, she is busy working and so on, 05:32 that means you had a lot of time to yourself. 05:34 Had a lot of time to myself and that's pretty much 05:37 where some of the challenges and the problems came from. 05:39 So I can't really blame my parents. 05:42 My mother was a nurse. 05:43 She worked long hours, double shifts, 05:45 she was constantly out of the house, 05:47 so, yeah, coming up, 05:49 you've pretty much taken care of yourself, 05:51 'cause, you know, once you hit that age 05:53 where you can take care of yourself, 05:54 you're at home, alone, 05:56 and then I had one of my little brothers coming along, 05:57 I'm taking care of him, you know, at seven, 06:00 eight, nine years old, 06:02 basically watching an infant for, 06:04 you know, eight hours, coming home from school, 06:06 and you kind of living on your own, if you will, 06:10 so it was pretty much in that setting. 06:12 There was no real religion in my household. 06:14 Okay. No church to speak of. 06:16 No prayer or even any religious discussion 06:20 or concepts that I can remember as a little child. 06:24 And my mother was young as well and, you know, 06:26 she had her own life, you know, partying and music, 06:29 it was a biracial household as well. 06:31 So I was exposed to, you know, 06:35 the full spectrum of cultures and music and everything else. 06:42 So, yeah, it was a challenge, 06:43 there's no question about it and at the same time, 06:46 you're going through the normal changes, 06:48 and the normal development, 06:49 and the normal stages, and trying to find your own, 06:51 and trying to find where you fit in, 06:53 and so we found ourselves moving a lot, 06:56 you know, financially, 06:57 we were in poverty pretty much growing up. 06:59 It's not like we didn't eat... 07:01 Yeah, yeah. 07:02 But, you know, we didn't have what everybody else had. 07:06 So I found myself escaping into entertainment, 07:11 escaping into music, escaping into movies, 07:13 and everything else, and now, we're, 07:16 I'm out in the suburbs at this time, 07:18 so I'm getting exposed to hip-hop 07:20 for the very first time through the TV, 07:24 you know, through images, you know, old, 07:28 I think when MTV is just starting out, 07:30 and they had video music box and V66, 07:34 and they're playing these music videos, 07:35 and you have movies, and you had, you know, music. 07:39 We had local in Boston area, 07:40 we had local groups, you know, New Edition, and 07:42 Ed O.G. and Da Bulldogs, 07:45 and so there was hip-hop in Boston 07:48 but it was nowhere near the same scene. 07:51 There was the industries that labels, 07:53 the industry was not present in Boston like that. 07:56 There weren't many studios to speak of 07:58 and exactly to speak of, so most people, 08:01 if they wanted to make it big, or they wanted to get in, 08:03 they had to go to New York, 08:04 they had to go through New York to do that, 08:06 so I'm getting exposed in that way, 08:09 and pretty much now as I'm going into... 08:13 We moved into another section of the city 08:16 and this was supposedly the bad section of the city, 08:21 and new group of friends, new neighborhood, 08:25 I'm going into junior high, 08:27 and I'm always, I was always big. 08:31 I was always taller than everybody in my class 08:33 and so I always hung around with older people, 08:36 you know, older age groups. 08:38 Now, what was your attitude like 08:39 when you transitioned into high school? 08:41 'Cause you remember, when I went to high school, 08:42 I'm a nobody, nobody is recognizing me, 08:44 no one wants to be my friend, I had to use something, I mean, 08:47 when you came into high school, were you going in insecure? 08:50 Were you going in like, "Look, I'm the man," I mean, 08:52 what was your attitude like going into high school, 08:54 as you're branching into this new phase in your life? 08:56 Yeah. 08:57 It was slightly different in that, 08:59 I felt that I had a reputation, I had a niche. 09:01 As I'm getting older, I'm always bigger, and that, 09:05 you know, that holds weight in the street, 09:08 so I found myself being able to establish myself 09:12 and do anything I wanted to do, and lead other people, 09:14 so I had my crew and lead other men 09:17 and, you know, other kids 09:18 and pretty much make my own way. 09:22 So by the time I'm getting into junior high, 09:24 that's development, 09:25 so by the time I get into high school, 09:26 I already had, kind of a reputation 09:28 that preceded me and, you know, I felt like I was... 09:34 I was, where I needed to be and if anybody, you know, 09:37 wanted to challenge that, 09:39 then I was ready for that challenge. 09:40 So now, right now, you're at a point where, 09:43 you know, you're what I'm going to say 09:45 was the typical urban youth that we see a lot going on, 09:49 sometimes single-parent home, 09:52 growing up with the television, videogames and friends 09:54 are pretty much what's around us 09:55 more than own parental guidance, 09:57 then on top of that, you're in school. 09:59 You're using the influences what you got naturally, 10:01 you're a big guy, so you figured, 10:03 "Let me use that to my influence 10:04 to be influential to others" and so on, 10:07 where is the role of, you know, 10:10 the influence of hip-hop culture 10:11 at that point in your life? 10:13 Like I said, 10:14 when I moved to this new section of the town, 10:16 this outside as what we called it, 10:18 and I got a new group of friends, 10:20 and there's a new junior high I'm going into, 10:23 I moved right at like the tail end of the summer. 10:27 I got exposed to the music. 10:30 Basically, you know, we had the tape store, a record store, 10:33 and go down to the record store, 10:35 and they will put out new music and I just remember, 10:38 just one summer in particular, 10:41 a couple of individuals that I had met through my mother, 10:44 they worked with my mother, 10:45 they had just gone out of New York. 10:47 There was a brother from Holland 10:49 and a brother from Brooklyn, 10:50 and so they were talking about, you know, 10:51 these different groups, 10:53 some of the groups I never heard of, 10:54 so I go to the record store and I pick up, you know, 10:58 Slick Rick, and your Tribe Called Quest, 11:01 and your KRS-One, and your Kool G Rap and your, 11:05 so I started getting into this. 11:06 There were other young people, like out of way, 11:09 I can go back to elementary school, 11:11 and some of my classmates, their older brothers, 11:15 and Beastie Boys comes out, 11:17 you know, I think it was called, 11:18 Licensed to Ill, and they're coming in schools, 11:20 singing these songs, 11:21 never heard anything like that in my life, 11:23 completely different. 11:25 Run Diam comes out 11:26 and these things that are completely different, 11:29 you know, new, and so that is attractive, 11:33 you know, becomes attractive. 11:34 It's the new thing, it's the cool thing, 11:36 it's the popular thing, 11:37 at least amongst the young people, 11:39 so I started just becoming a junkie, you know, 11:42 like a music consumer to the max. 11:46 And, you know, I didn't have money to buy, 11:47 I was just going in and steal the stuff, 11:50 so as I saw being practiced in my surroundings, you know, 11:54 theft, and beat downs, selling drugs, partying, 11:59 I just got into that at an early age. 12:00 You know, at 10 years old, I was smoking, 10 years old, 12:04 I was drinking, 10 years old, I was going to parties 12:07 and getting involved with girls and all that stuff. 12:10 So by the time I'm 11, 12, 13, 14, going into high school, 12:15 I mean, that was my lifestyle everyday. 12:17 Now curious. 12:19 When you were listening 12:20 and getting more heavily exposed 12:23 to the hip-hop culture and all that comes with it, 12:25 and, you know, and we're saying hip-hop culture for a reason, 12:28 because sometimes, people just focus on the music 12:31 and the industry 12:32 but it's not just music and industry, 12:34 it's a culture, it's a complete lifestyle, 12:36 so we're being very deliberate about that, 12:38 and we're going to build on that in, you know, 12:40 further programs just so that we can all be on the same page 12:42 and understand this. 12:44 But, you know, Lance, when we're talking about that, 12:46 you're exposed to this hip-hop culture now, 12:47 all these things are coming in, 12:49 one of the things I'm curious about 12:50 from the artist's standpoint, 12:52 you just mentioned all these hip-hop artists, 12:53 who are the ones that appealed to you most and why? 12:56 There is a reason I'm asking this question. 12:57 Yeah, I understand. 12:59 Obviously, what appealed to me most was the intellectual, 13:05 you know, the knowledge, 13:06 not just the guys they're rhyming, 13:09 and just, you know, making words connect, 13:10 and just the party songs, the club songs, but, you know, 13:14 the brothers that are actually putting together 13:17 and constructing complex, deep, intricate rhymes, 13:21 the word play, the syllables, you know, the metaphors, 13:26 those kind of things, 13:27 that's what I dedicated myself to, 13:31 like memorizing, and studying the artists, 13:34 and seeing how this is going to happen. 13:38 And we had a local, you know, we had local MCs. 13:39 Yeah. 13:41 And so there was one, 13:42 he was like in the next grade above me 13:44 and he was like the local main MC, 13:47 so every school party, 13:49 dances, every get-together, he was the MC, 13:54 so he became part of my crew and so we used to get together, 13:59 you know, party, listen to music, 14:01 and I would always memorize the rhymes, 14:03 and at a certain point, he used to, you know, 14:07 write rhymes and kind of try to, 14:10 not kind of teach, but he challenged me one day. 14:12 He was like, "Listen, I notice that you can memorize 14:15 all of these rhymes and you can repeat 'em exactly, 14:17 you know, precisely, with the delivery, 14:19 the timing, all these things, 14:21 why don't you try writing your own rhymes?" 14:23 And I said, "I never thought about that." 14:25 He said that's the interesting challenge 14:27 and so there was an event, a little, 14:31 I had an altercation at my high school 14:34 and, you know, they threatened to kick me out. 14:36 They wouldn't let me come back in 14:38 without like a psychological evaluation, 14:40 I had to go through this counseling, 14:42 and kind of like anger management, 14:43 before there was anger management, 14:45 and at that moment, 14:48 that's that moment when I was waiting to go 14:49 see the psychiatrist or whoever it was, 14:51 the counselor, I wrote, you know, my first rhymes. 14:55 And I wrote my first rhymes, I mean, that was it. 15:00 Now when you wrote your first rhyme, 15:02 you were realizing, 15:03 "All right, I obviously have a talent." 15:04 Somebody challenged you. Yeah. 15:06 And that helped bring it out. 15:08 Were you at this point when you wrote 15:09 your first rhyme thinking, "You know what? 15:11 I want to take this to the next level." 15:12 Like some people are just content being the local MC. 15:16 Did you want to bring it to the next level 15:17 and say, "Look, I want to actually get into the industry, 15:19 I want to penetrate this thing." 15:20 I definitely considered it, 15:22 but I'm probably 14 at that time 15:25 and I'm always anti-establishment, 15:27 I'm anti-authority and all those things. 15:31 I'm naturally rebellious. 15:34 I just won't do something 15:35 just because somebody told me to do it. 15:37 So in my mind I gravitated 15:39 what I considered to be the underground 15:42 aspects of hip-hop. 15:44 Those people that, yeah, 15:45 they were maybe putting out albums, 15:47 they were doing shows, 15:48 but they weren't selling millions of records, 15:51 they weren't super-rich, 15:52 they still may be sleeping at home with their parents, 15:55 but they're making maybe videos and albums, 15:58 so I was more gravitating, in my mind, 16:00 I considered the fact that 16:03 if I stay true to the craft then I wouldn't become popular, 16:07 I would never be popular, 16:09 so I was perfectly content with being an underground MC 16:13 and just make a career out of crushing other suspect MCs 16:19 and spreading knowledge, 16:21 spreading what I believe to be, you know, 16:23 the truth and what people need to know. 16:24 So it sounds to me like, in my experience, 16:27 I was looking more towards the fun and the enjoyment 16:30 and a lot of the emotional stimulus and all that stuff, 16:34 but you were caught up from the hip-hop perspective 16:36 more on the intellectual, the deep knowledge, 16:40 to the point that you were not even aspiring 16:41 to go into the industry. 16:42 You were like, "Look, I want to keep you underground" 16:44 almost to the point, would you consider 16:45 that to go into the industry 16:47 was almost a stepping stone to possibly selling out? 16:49 Oh, that to me, industry was sell-out. 16:52 You know, major labels sell out. 16:56 To me, I couldn't, because I was still, 16:57 I was in the streets, 16:59 I was, I was selling drugs if I had to, 17:01 I was, you know, committing acts of violence, 17:04 theft, I was completely corrupt. 17:07 So in my mind, if I went into the industry, 17:09 I couldn't do those things anymore, 17:11 I couldn't still be street and be a professional. 17:16 I had to do one or the other or else, 17:17 you know, they wouldn't mix, they wouldn't be compatible. 17:21 So I would have to sell out the street in my mind 17:24 as my rationale at, you know, at 14 or whatever. 17:27 I had to sell out the street and leave that life 17:30 in order to make this image and this career, if you will. 17:33 So, you pretty much brought us now up to the point 17:36 that you're at least 14 or 15 years old, 17:39 attraction to hip-hop culture and entertainment 17:42 and is that the point where, you know, 17:44 you are now seeing yourself not only with the skill set, 17:48 but you want to preserve it 17:50 and you're not getting caught up 17:51 into the pull of the industry or anything like that? 17:53 At this stage in your life, was there anybody, 17:56 grandmother, grandfather, friend, enemy, anybody, 18:00 who was trying to have 18:02 any type of godly influence in your life, 18:05 at this point in time? 18:06 Not that I can remember. 18:07 I mean, the only kind of religious influence 18:09 I had at that time, 18:11 my mother started getting into, like, 18:13 new age things and that kind of stuff. 18:17 I really didn't listen to. 18:18 We didn't have those conversations in my home. 18:22 There were a couple of brothers that I mentioned, 18:24 the brothers that came from New York, 18:26 one was associated with the Zulu Nation, 18:28 which we'll be talking about in short, 18:30 one was associated with the Five-Percent Nation, 18:34 so, you know, they had an angle, 18:36 but it wasn't, 18:38 you know, it was just kind of theories. 18:39 So I was garnering a lot from the music, 18:43 you know, from the messages coming through, 18:46 the philosophies coming through. 18:48 I didn't like to read, 18:50 so I pretty much was just ingesting 18:52 what was coming through the culture. 18:54 Now, some people, you know, 18:56 you mentioned Five-Percenter or what have you, 18:59 there may be some of our viewers 19:00 who don't know what Five-Percenter is 19:03 or any of these type of things, 19:04 could you explain what that is real quick? 19:06 Yeah. 19:07 Basically, in short, 19:09 'cause I hope we're going to dedicate 19:10 an entire program for this. 19:12 But the Five-Percent Nation 19:14 or the Nation of what they call, 19:15 the Gods and the Earths came up in the '60s, 19:19 through one individual named Clarence 13X, 19:22 and he was kind of, 19:25 he left the NOI or the Nation of Islam, 19:27 if you heard about Malcolm X or Elijah Muhammed, 19:29 currently Louis Farrakhan. 19:31 After Malcolm X was assassinated, 19:33 he left Harlem Temple No. 7, 19:35 and he just like many others, 19:38 and he started to craft his own world view, 19:42 if you will, 19:43 and it became known as The Five-Percent Nation, 19:45 the Nation of the Gods and the Earths 19:47 and he basically, 19:50 recruited young men in the Harlem area 19:53 and it's essentially obtaining a true knowledge 19:59 that they believe came 20:00 from an individual named W.D. Fard Mohammad 20:03 that was the mentor to Elijah Mohammad 20:06 and this secret knowledge 20:08 was come to be delivered 20:11 to the black man, if you will, 20:14 that he is the original man, or essentially god. 20:18 They broke down these numbers, there was a lot, 20:20 what they called supreme mathematics 20:21 and the supreme alphabet 20:23 and there was the idea that 85% of humanity, 20:29 and especially, the individuals that came 20:31 from the African nations over to the, 20:35 in the slave trade, 20:37 that 85% of the world if you will, 20:39 or particularly the black man 20:41 were deaf, dumb, and blind, ignorant. 20:44 They had no guidance. 20:45 They were completely inept and inebriate, 20:48 intellectually and morally corrupt, 20:51 and then they were 20:52 what was called the ten-percent. 20:54 The ten-percent were those that knew 20:56 but that deliberately kept the lie, 21:00 perpetuated the lie, 21:01 and the base lie 21:04 was that there was a false religion, 21:10 what they call trickenology or spook religion, 21:13 where eventually, these corrupt individuals 21:15 through the ages 21:17 introduced a religion 21:19 that took the mind away from self 21:21 and directed it towards an unseen god 21:24 that you can't see, that's in some place 21:27 that you can't see, that you can't go, 21:29 and developed all of these laws 21:31 and this is where the Bible came from 21:32 and Moses introduced this 21:34 and Mohammed of Islam, of traditional Islam 21:38 developed these spook religions 21:40 where they're chasing a lie 21:43 and the truth was that God is in you, God is you. 21:47 We are the sole controllers 21:49 and this kind of question and answer to that method, 21:53 where you memorize kind of a catechism 21:55 of question and answer 21:56 became the lessons, became the core doctrine, 22:00 and you were ingratiated to memorize these things 22:02 and it was just very intriguing 22:04 'cause there was a lot of information, 22:06 a lot of "knowledge" 22:08 that never really amounted to anything, 22:10 at least in my estimation, 22:11 it was very circular in its reasoning, 22:14 but it was just information, it was knowledge, 22:15 it was a position, 22:17 there was something to stand for, 22:18 there was something to be a part of, 22:20 and it gave an alternative to the traditional story of, 22:24 like it was said though, 22:25 The white Jesus and, you know, 22:27 all of these things. 22:28 So that's it in a nutshell. 22:30 So then, at this point, 22:31 when you were learning about this, 22:33 'cause I know now, 22:34 you don't embrace these teachings. 22:35 Right. 22:37 But back then, I would imagine 22:38 this was really intriguing to you. 22:40 Yeah. I mean, absolutely. 22:41 It captured an area of my mind 22:44 where I was seeking for answers. 22:46 At some point, 22:47 I was looking to make sense 22:49 and put the knowledge that I had 22:52 or the philosophies that I began to develop 22:55 into a package 22:56 because I was, at least in my approach, 23:00 I was anti-establishment, anti-authority, 23:04 but I was very particular 23:05 and things had to be very organized, 23:07 and thoughtful, and reasonable, 23:09 so I didn't want to just kind of float around, 23:13 I wanted to know what the answers were 23:16 and I wanted to have something to deliver 23:18 that was tangible, practical, not theoretical. 23:22 Okay, so then, at this point now my question is, 23:25 what was your view of Christians at that time? 23:27 I remember when I was kind of engrossed into the industry, 23:30 I looked at Christians like a bunch of happy people 23:32 that don't even know why they're happy. 23:34 They are always emotional, 23:35 but they couldn't go back to anything that was 23:37 "intellectual" and say, 23:39 "This is why I believe what I believe" and so on. 23:40 I mean, what was going on in your mind 23:42 and your view towards church and Christianity? 23:43 Yeah. 23:45 Traditionally, at least on my mother's side, 23:46 her family was Catholic, Roman Catholic, 23:49 so in my mind, all Christianity was Roman Catholic. 23:53 You know, that was Christianity. 23:54 So to me, 23:56 they were corrupt and hypocrites. 23:59 And I didn't even consider them happy people, 24:01 I just saw them as just, you know, 24:03 confused and lost individuals of no practical worth. 24:07 They had no presence, if you will. 24:09 There was a church, 24:10 that you always knew was a church. 24:12 But where were the people? 24:14 I never saw the people, where did they go? 24:16 Where did they come from? 24:17 You know, so to me, they were just, 24:19 you know, they just took up space 24:20 and I considered them weak 24:22 as I began to now pursue 24:24 some of these things aggressively, 24:26 I considered Christians weak, double-minded, 24:29 unsure of themselves, insecure, no answers, 24:33 something like a detestable creature. 24:35 Now, now, this is sharp, because you know what? 24:39 I believe firmly 24:41 that the thoughts 24:42 that you had are the thoughts that many have today. 24:47 My question is when, 24:49 have Christians ever approached you 24:50 when you had this type of thinking? 24:52 Eventually, yeah. 24:53 I mean, as I get into that transition point. 24:56 Yeah. 24:57 There's definitely, we're going to talk about that. 24:59 Okay, so then you got to a point 25:00 where you see that, 25:01 you know, these folks are coming in. 25:03 If you could just, in a brief picture, 25:06 and then what we will do is we'll expand on it 25:07 as we go further in our next sessions, 25:10 what was like your average response 25:13 to the Christians 25:15 who would come to you at this time frame 25:16 when you were doing that? 25:17 And I'm asking these questions for a reason. 25:19 Yeah. 25:20 Aggression, animosity, 25:22 a kind of a disgust, a disdain, 25:24 and, you know, wouldn't give 'em an inch. 25:29 I would consider them just pushovers 25:31 and they didn't know what they were talking about, 25:33 I knew what I was talking about 25:35 and I'm just going to bulldoze you 25:37 and steamroll you intellectually or physically 25:41 if you want to take it there. 25:43 Now at this stage, 25:44 what were the books that you were reading 25:46 that gave you this picture 25:47 because since you were into intelligence, 25:50 you were more than likely reading something, 25:51 so what were you reading at that stage? 25:53 Well, that's the thing, is I hated reading. 25:56 Why? I hated reading. 25:58 So it was really... 26:00 Listening? Yeah. 26:01 It was up to that point where I didn't read. 26:02 I didn't really read, I mean, I read some things as a child, 26:05 reading, you know, different books here and there, 26:07 but I just didn't have any passion for reading. 26:12 I would get interested in something 26:13 and pick it up and read it, 26:14 but, you know, 26:16 I didn't even go at it like that. 26:17 I was more of the mindset 26:19 that I don't need to read some exterior book, 26:23 I need to observe 26:24 and master my surroundings 26:26 and deal with the physical, 26:28 you know, tangible level, 26:30 and you got people studying books, 26:32 their heads in a book and they don't know, 26:34 they don't know how to govern themselves. 26:37 Would you say at this stage in your life 26:39 that you were the reflector of other men's thoughts? 26:41 Absolutely. 26:43 It has to be the truth 26:44 because you're developing an image 26:47 that you're getting from outside. 26:50 A whole lifestyle, a whole culture 26:52 that I'm adopting and accepting as it. 26:56 Where did it come from? 26:57 Who perpetuated it? What are its origins? 27:00 And you can study that out 27:01 but still even the people at the beginning 27:03 don't have an answer. 27:04 Right. 27:05 You know, it came from somewhere 27:07 and then now, once the industry gets involved, 27:09 they're doing all kinds of things 27:10 that people don't have any control of, 27:12 so things are just getting mixed, 27:13 and mashed, and mingled, 27:14 and amalgamated, into this package 27:17 that they are offering the consumer. 27:19 And I was a consumer for the most part. 27:22 You know, I don't know about you 27:24 but as I listen to brother Lance 27:25 share these things, 27:27 I know that it is very convincing 27:29 and it's to the point that you wonder, 27:30 how do you come out of this? 27:32 But I'm trusting that in our next episode, 27:35 we're going to get to hear about 27:36 how the Lord was able to bring him 27:37 out of this type of thinking 27:39 into the present understanding of his truth at this time. 27:41 And, Lance, I believe that a lot of people 27:43 are going through similar struggles 27:44 like what you were going through at that time, 27:46 so again, I really appreciate you 27:47 sharing that with us, brother. 27:49 Well, our time is up. 27:50 We want to thank you all for joining us here at TKS 27:51 and we want you to come back and this time, invite a friend, 27:54 so that hopefully, 27:55 we can all enjoy the blessings together. 27:57 Until next time, remember Proverbs 2:6, 28:00 that it's the Lord that gives wisdom 28:01 and out of His mouth 28:03 comes knowledge and understanding. |
Revised 2017-05-01