Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY220073A
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00:04 ♪ I want to spend my life mending broken people ♪ 00:15 ♪ I want to spend my life removing pain ♪ 00:26 ♪ Lord let my words heal a heart that hurts ♪ 00:36 ♪ I want to spend my life mending broken people ♪ 00:57 ♪ ♪ 01:06 Hello friends, welcome again to another edition of 3ABN Today 01:10 My name is Ryan Day and as always we are blessed and 01:14 thankful that you are taking time out of your busy day to 01:17 join us here during this very, very special hour. Now you may 01:21 be new to 3ABN and obviously we have people who are joining us 01:25 as repeat viewers and we want to thank each and every one of you. 01:28 But the Today program has many different versions of it. 01:31 Sometimes we might have a Today cooking program where you learn 01:34 about how to cook good vegetarian meals and maybe a 01:38 Today's music program where we just sing God's praises and 01:40 maybe a Today Bible Q and A program where we answer your 01:44 Bible questions or a Today family worship where we sit 01:47 around the table and worship God on Sabbath evening and then we 01:51 also have the Today interview programs where we interview 01:54 people for testimonies and just to hear what God has done in 01:58 someone's life. But one of my favorite Today programs is the 02:01 one that's happening right now. In fact I want to encourage you 02:04 get your family, get your friends, your enemies as Pastor 02:07 Danny would say, everyone around the table, around the TV at this 02:11 time. You're going to want to tune in because during this hour 02:14 we're going to be taking on one of the most powerful and much 02:17 needed subjects for our time especially a time as this. 02:21 I want to go ahead and introduce my guests that are with me today 02:26 and then we're going to set this up. We're going to dive right 02:28 into this topic. We have across the table here founder and 02:33 consultant for 3ABN Brother Danny, I'm going to call you 02:36 Pastor Danny, Brother Danny, Elder Danny. You're all of those 02:39 things to us. Brother Danny Shelton. It's always a blessing 02:42 to have you, Brother. 02:43 Thank you. It's good to be here. It's kind of nice to be on this 02:45 end and not have to worry about all the intros and all that. 02:49 You're doing a great job. I may just do this end from now on. 02:52 I don't know. We like to see you on this end also. But it's a 02:57 blessing to have you. We have a very special topic in which 02:59 you're...I mean you have recently contributed a lot to 03:04 this subject that we're going to be talking about today. And 03:06 we're going to dive into that in just a moment but I also want to 03:08 introduce our second guest here that's going to be with us and 03:11 he's coming to us via Skype. Pastor James Rafferty is not in 03:16 the house but yet he's in the house. 03:17 There you go. 03:19 Both ways I guess you could say. How are you, Pastor Rafferty? 03:22 Technology is a blessing. It is so good to be here with you both 03:27 and especially to deal with this topic which is so important, so 03:34 vital for our country and for our church today and of 03:38 course to the world. 03:40 Amen, amen. Well it's a blessing to have you here with us my 03:43 brother. You know I want to go ahead and take this time to 03:46 introduce what it is we're going to be talking about today. One 03:49 of my favorite Today programs, as I said before, is the 3ABN 03:52 Today Bible topic in which we take a Bible topic, a much 03:56 needed topic for discussion and we go deep into the word of God 03:59 We discuss it together as brothers and sisters in Christ 04:03 and today we're going to be taking on, man, it's a subject 04:06 that can be controversial. Not that God wants it to be that way 04:10 Because there's an enemy out there who is doing everything he 04:15 can to kill, steal and destroy away the truth regarding 04:19 this subject that we're going to be talking with today. And how 04:21 I'm going to set this up as I want to be reminded of a 04:25 powerful sermon Brother Danny that you preached recently. 04:28 It kind of rocked and shook the Adventist world, the Christian 04:32 world because it's a topic that you don't hear many people 04:36 preaching on or talking about today. It's a very sensitive 04:40 subject and you know in the culture and times that we live 04:43 As we can see it seems like the the devil is using the culture, he's 04:47 using this postmodern mindset to kind of hijack the truths of 04:52 God's word and to distort and pervert the truths of God's word 04:55 and he's doing that through many different facets of many 04:58 different aspects of life. But it seems like the church is also 05:02 getting caught up in the blurriness of what the devil is 05:05 doing to deceive and to kill and to destroy this truth. You 05:10 recently preached a sermon, okay in which you addressed two 05:14 important topics: Homosexuality and abortion. Now when I say 05:19 that right there automatically people Huuu, what's going to be 05:23 said, right? What are they going to say about homosexuality 05:24 What are they going to say about abortion. But these are two very 05:27 very vital important subjects that the Bible addresses and God 05:31 recently gave you a sermon at our recent camp meeting in which 05:35 you addressed and dealt with these two subjects. And I want 05:37 to start just...before, actually you know what. Before we get 05:40 started we should probably just take just a moment to pray as 05:44 we're taking on this very sensitive topic. Why don't we 05:47 go to the Lord in prayer at this time. (Yes) 05:49 Father in heaven, Lord we simply praise you on this day God. We 05:53 uplift you and we say thank you Lord for the opportunity that we 05:57 have to open the bread of life and to learn of you, learn of 06:00 you, learn of your will, your ways and your powerful truths. 06:03 And so Father, we ask that you rain the Holy Spirit down on our 06:06 hearts and minds and for all of our viewers at home, Lord, draw 06:10 us to your truth. Not our ideas Lord, now what the human mind 06:14 might desire but what the Spirit of the Lord desires for us. And 06:17 so give us your word. May we rightly divide your word of 06:20 truth right now and may each and every one of us is drawn closer 06:24 to Jesus Christ and His word. We simply turn this over to you 06:28 Lord and we ask that your will be done. In Jesus' Holy Name 06:31 Amen (in unison) amen (again) 06:33 Okay so the Lord laid upon your heart to preach a sermon and I 06:39 just want to kick this off by just asking, What was going 06:43 through your mind as you're preparing the sermon, because 06:45 I've been in a situation many times as Pastor James has where 06:49 we're always in that prayerful mentality, Lord what would you 06:51 have me to share? And this is what the Lord put on your heart 06:54 so walk us through that as the Lord laid that subject upon your 06:58 heart. 06:59 Absolutely. Seeing so many changes, not only in the world 07:02 but in the church and I can say this, I've never studied so long 07:06 and so hard to do a sermon or talk of any kind. But this I 07:12 knew, I said Lord it really needed to be right because we 07:14 live in such a time where everybody's offended about 07:17 everything. I mean, you can hardly say anything. To some 07:21 people you'll say how are you. You can't say he or she. You've 07:25 got to say they. I mean there's people that want to be referred 07:28 to all kinds of things that are way beyond me. So I said, Lord 07:33 you...I need you to give me the words I need the people 07:37 to hear what they need to hear. But on the topic of 07:42 homosexuality and abortion, why those ones? Because in the last 07:46 several years the devil has been working where literally...and 07:53 I'm going to say this straight up to begin with. (Sure) When 07:56 the program's over there are probably going to be people on 07:58 the left and the right, all going to be mad at me. I don't 08:01 mean to say that in an arrogant way, in a prideful way. I'm just 08:06 saying what we want to talk about today is what the Bible 08:09 says about truth. So we really don't care what the ones on the 08:12 far-right say, the ones on the far left say. So we're just 08:17 really going to talk about the truth today. So when it comes to the 08:22 homosexual community it's like I'm going to use the word that 08:25 they use often. It seems in the last several years they have 08:28 bullied their way into our church because everybody's 08:34 afraid to offend someone that you don't want to say that they 08:37 come to church and well, hey, I want to hold an office in the 08:41 church. You know, yes, I'm gay but I was born that way, I can't 08:45 help it so people don't want to say no. It's like well this is 08:51 so offensive you know too...how do we do this? And so with me, 08:56 I mean, if you look at this, now I've thought, from a common 08:59 sense angle, Ryan if I came to your church and said Hey look, 09:03 and I've mentioned this a time or two before, I don't know if 09:05 on air or not, but if I came to your church and say I'd like to 09:10 get a job, I'd like to be your treasurer. And you say, Oh great 09:14 Now I'll admit I'm a thief but you know my father was one. It's 09:19 just kind of something I do but I really want to be your 09:21 treasurer. You're not going to have a problem offending me and 09:23 saying no we're not going to allow you to be the treasurer. 09:26 If I say look I really want to teach your kids but you know 09:32 I have a little trouble with pedophilia, whatever. You're not 09:36 going to have to trouble anything ...you're going to say sorry 09:40 we're not going to have you around these kids. No matter 09:43 what I say you know I really want to get up and I love 09:47 telling stories in church. Now I lie a little bit but you know my 09:51 family, I came from a family of people who lied, they stretched 09:54 the story so far. You're going to say any commandment that I do 09:58 hey I want to take part in your church but I use the Lord's name 10:02 in vain. You're going to say no. Except when it comes to if I 10:06 come to you and say you know I'd like to have a position in your 10:10 church as a leader but now I am an adulterer. I was kind of born 10:15 that way. I like women and can't help, so you're going to say no. 10:18 But if I come to you and say look now, term they use is gay. 10:23 I don't use that because it's a misnomer. Way back in the 30s 10:27 and 40s people would say we're having a gay time. It's 10:29 something happy, something good, you know great a lot of songs 10:34 written. So I usually say the LGBTQ or the homosexual 10:38 community. So when you look at it, I think it's so much 10:46 emotional. I'm born that way, I can't really help it so we don't 10:49 want to say no because it's offensive. But when we say no 10:53 it's like they go tell this crowd and then this crowd and 10:56 then others and then everybody's suing or picking in your church 10:59 to your pastor or they're saying man these people are prejudiced 11:02 you know they've got all these ...they're homophobic, they're 11:06 whatever. So to me, we have 10 commandments and we as a church 11:14 a Seventh-day Adventist church we've always preached all 10 11:16 commandments. Back I used in my sermon there are churches a couple 11:20 weeks ago we showed a little clip of C.D. Brooks and Elder 11:24 Brooks talked about homosexuals and lesbians and he talked about 11:28 even in one place, I didn't show transgenders, you know then 11:33 called transvestites. And he talked openly and out front 11:37 But that was only maybe 20, 30 years or so ago. But today I 11:42 don't think he could preach in any of our universities because 11:45 you have to be so careful of what you say. So what I'm seeing 11:50 is more or less I say a bullying I say that in terms of the way 11:55 people talk today, but they're forcing their way into the 11:58 church and getting sympathy from everyone else because they say 12:02 well I was born that way I can't really help it. I should be able 12:05 to do. But, so, I also want to clarify this. None of us are up 12:11 here...I can speak James and Ryan and myself. We're not here 12:15 because we're beyond sin. We're not here because we have no sin. 12:17 All of us are sinners saved by grace. We're talking about open 12:23 sin, open rebellion. And if every pastor said well I can't 12:28 preach until I quit sinning, there'd be no pastors. Or if I 12:32 were perfect, let me say it like that. If any pastor said well 12:35 I'm perfect, now I can preach. That's an imperfection. He 12:39 shouldn't preach. So we're all sinners saved by grace. So we're 12:41 not here today judging, we're not here downplaying about how 12:46 this is no worse sin than any other. I just can't get it 12:49 through my little mind why it's not on equal grounds according 12:55 to you know culture today that if it's still wrong to you know 12:59 Thou shalt have no other Gods before me, you know, make no 13:02 graven images, you know don't use the Lord's name in vain. 13:06 Remember the Sabbath day, you know, honor thy father and 13:08 mother, thou shalt not kill, thou shall not steal, thy shall not 13:11 commit adultery. Why as we go down it's just this one. We 13:15 still think adultery's wrong and we'll talk about it but when it 13:20 comes to homosexuality we don't want to say anything because 13:22 we're pressured by our peers around us and so it's tough. 13:28 And another, then I want to hear James's opinion part of the 13:32 reasons for our schools and our educational systems is when we 13:37 have a lot of government money coming in because we're not free 13:41 to say what we want to say so we have to really be careful 13:44 Because I put up the statement by Loma Linda. Some people were 13:50 upset about that but I didn't say anything you know that Dr. 13:55 Hart didn't say himself. I was just reading what he put out 13:58 publicly and so I'd like to get maybe James your opinion on this 14:03 why is this...it seems like it's not in the category if you talk 14:12 about if people want to take you to a political site. Oh you must 14:13 be a Republican if you talk about you know the sin of the 14:18 sixth and seventh commandments if you talk about that or 14:21 the other says 14:22 well if you do this you must be a Democrat. So as I was saying 14:25 earlier Ryan today I'm going to have people on the left and 14:28 people on the right that's not going to be very happy but we 14:31 have to tell the truth as we know it but I'd like to hear 14:35 James. 14:36 Well we made a mistake you know as probably a church and as a 14:40 community, we've made a mistake in the past We put homosexuality 14:45 in a special category. We made it a special sin. I had a man 14:49 just a few weeks ago tell me you know there's one sin that 14:56 God hates worst in the Bible. And I said what is that? He said 15:00 it's homosexuality. And I said no actually if you read Proverbs 15:04 six the sin that God hates the most that's actually an 15:06 abomination to Him is pride and lying. Actually these six the 15:13 Lord hates and seven are an abomination unto Him. A proud 15:16 look and a lying tongue and a false witness. So when we put 15:20 homosexuality in a special category in the past we've born 15:25 a false witness to the truth of God's word. Romans chapter one 15:28 says homosexuality, dishonoring parents, gossip, all of these 15:36 sins are in the same category. So we owe the LGBTQ community 15:42 an apology. But in a sense it's too late. They've already felt 15:48 the ramifications, the implications of the way that 15:52 we've treated them as a Christian church and Christian 15:56 believers. And now that we've put them in a special category 15:59 they want the special category. So we're seeing a swing now so 16:05 that homosexuals are saying there's nothing wrong with our 16:09 sin. Yes we acknowledge all the other sins, but we were born 16:15 this way. We can't help it. There's nothing we can do about 16:18 this. You put us in a special category over here. Now we want 16:21 a special category over here. That's what I see taking place 16:25 in our society and church. I see a lot of church leaders, a lot 16:29 of Christians saying you know what: We have made a mistake 16:33 in the past. We need to make it up to them. We need to go easier 16:37 on the LGBTQ community. We can't identify what they're doing as a 16:42 sin. But the truth of the matter is that's a false witness that's 16:47 a lie. When we lie 1 John 1 verses 8 to 10 tell us we 16:52 deceive ourselves. Let me put it this way. When we don't identify 16:59 sin as sin and deceive ourselves and we make God a liar. So we 17:03 have to hold to the Bible but we owe an apology to the LGBT 17:07 community with the grace of God and the love of God just like we 17:12 would with any other person. Like myself for example. I 17:16 inherited inclinations to alcoholism on both sides of my 17:20 family. And I give up. I just felt like I can't be a Christian 17:24 because I can't stop drinking. I gave that to God and He gave 17:27 me the grace and He took that away from me. It wasn't easy but 17:32 God grew me out of that inherited and cultivated sin. 17:39 And God can do the same in every category of sin. 17:44 Thank you. Ryan. 17:47 Now I back everything, you guys have said so far. What makes 17:49 this subject so difficult is God's word never changes. We 17:55 know that. God doesn't change, His character doesn't change, 17:58 His word never changes. So it's not like we're going to look at 18:03 a historical shifting of God changing over time. We can never 18:06 find a point in history where we can say well God once was 18:09 here but then He changed to this. Or He used to press this 18:13 issue but now he's changed to this. God doesn't change, his 18:17 word doesn't change and that's the most consistent and constant 18:19 thing that we can ground ourselves in. But yet people change. 18:23 Cultures change and it changes with time. And it seems that 18:27 we've reached a point in today's society where the culture has 18:31 now reached a point where it is challenging and it's hijacking 18:36 and trying to pervert and shift the truth of God's word to be 18:41 something else. Or to try to abandon it or leave it alone or 18:45 ignore it and try to still pitch this idea, this twisted, 18:48 perverted idea that we can still be professed believers, we can 18:52 still love Jesus and be lovers of Jesus and have the love of 18:55 Jesus but yet these principles and these ideas that we find 18:58 in the Bible that talk about homosexuality, well that's not 19:02 up with the times. In fact, I had a professed Christian 19:05 recently tell me that they've stopped reading the "manmade" 19:09 Bible because it's homophobic. That was their comment. The 19:14 Bible's homophobic. Now this is the same person that used to 19:18 go to church with me and used to grow up with me. Now they've 19:21 shifted their views to try to make the Bible out to be 19:24 something that it's not when the Bible has never changed. And so 19:27 I have even found myself in the past because I have homosexual 19:31 friends. I have friends and family who are of that lifestyle 19:35 And I love these people. They're brothers and sisters that you 19:38 put me in a room with them, I mean my goodness we love each 19:40 other to death and I love the mess out of them because they're 19:43 just great and wonderful people to be around but I do disagree 19:47 based on my Biblical beliefs with that particular lifestyle. 19:50 And I've even had these people speak to me and they'll say 19:53 things like well Ryan this is my struggle, this is my sin. Some 19:58 of them have even told me like I recognize that the Bible calls 20:01 this out as a sin and I know I'm dealing with this between me and 20:03 the Lord. But when it comes to others that are not homosexual 20:06 or that stand against it or have spoken up against it, they'll 20:11 say well those people, you guys don't know what you're talking 20:12 about. You're not presenting it the right way. You don't know 20:14 this. So it makes it difficult to speak on it in today's time 20:17 because it's such a controversial issue. 20:19 But I find myself still in all the love that I can muster up and 20:23 all the respect that I can for these people in this community 20:26 who are struggling with this sin just like I'm struggling with my 20:29 sins. Everybody else is struggling with their character 20:32 defects, I still have to go back to the word of God and say 20:35 this is what God's word says. You know culture may change, we 20:39 may change, but God doesn't change. And so whether it's my 20:43 problems, my struggles, my character defects, or your 20:46 problems, your sins, your struggles, your character 20:48 defects at the end of the day we have to go back and say God 20:51 is God, God is love, and we have to bring our life and our 20:55 beliefs in harmony with His word. 20:59 Right. We're talking about open sin and people accepting open 21:05 sin. Now may you could give us a little bit, maybe go in the 21:08 Bible just a little bit and show us because some people say well 21:12 I really don't think homosexuality is a sin and you 21:16 know when it refers to it in the Bible it's not really...you know 21:20 everyone has their own opinion so why don't we before we go any 21:23 further, you establish the fact whether homosexuality is indeed 21:27 a sin. So my thoughts on this and I've thought about it a lot 21:33 is the fact that any sin that's open sin, God is not going to 21:38 take anybody to heaven who wouldn't be happy there. 21:40 That's right brother. 21:42 God is love so he wants us to be happy. No matter which 21:45 commandment we rebel against and we openly reject that's 21:51 called a sin. So when we break God's law, the wages of sin is 21:57 death but the gift of God is eternal life. It's our duty to 22:02 teach people that open rebellion against God on any of his 22:06 commandments will end up in death. So we have to love people 22:10 enough to tell them the truth. 22:12 That's right, that's right, absolutely. Just simply 22:15 considering what the Bible teaches about this, you know, 22:18 there are many Bible texts, not going to have time to read them 22:20 all but I'll read a few prominent ones. First of all 22:22 we want to establish the fact that right there according to 22:26 God's original plan in Genesis 2 We know Genesis 2:24 tells us 22:29 And this is God speaking: Therefore a man shall leave his 22:32 father and his mother and be joined to his wife and they 22:35 shall become one flesh. So this is God's design plan that the 22:39 marital sexual relationship that was blessed and given by God was 22:43 a marital relationship between one man and one woman. Okay. 22:48 But man perverts this, the devil comes along. He works in the 22:53 hearts of men and they pervert this designed plan that God set 22:56 forth and blessed in the beginning. So the devil sees the 22:59 plan and he says No, one man, one woman, well he's going to 23:02 sneak in and he's going to try to pervert that original plan 23:05 that God designed so that by the time you get further into the 23:08 story, the days of Noah. Remember Jesus says in Matthew 23:11 24, As it was in the days of Noah so shall also the coming of 23:14 the Son of Man be. Well there may not be an explicit text that 23:17 talks about this but we know if we're dealing with it down here 23:20 prior to the second coming of Jesus, you better know that 23:24 homosexuality, you know this abortion issue and many, many 23:26 other sins related to it and all types of sins were being dealt 23:30 within the days of Noah. So this was perverted over time and 23:33 all the way down to Moses's time as God is calling His people. 23:37 He's saying now I want you to be my people, my special chosen 23:40 people. He gives them instruction. So right there in 23:42 the book of Leviticus for instance, chapter 18 verse 22 23:46 that's an example, God says to His people. He says you shall 23:49 lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. So He's 23:53 speaking, I don't want to see my men laying and having relations 23:56 with other men. He repeats it in the 20th chapter of Leviticus 24:00 verse 13 if a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman 24:03 both of them have committed an abomination. And this was God's 24:06 attitude towards it. If they'd given themself over to that 24:09 debased mind and that debased lifestyle, it goes on to say, 24:13 they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon 24:16 them. This was a personal choice 24:17 Verse 13. 24:19 Absolutely. In Leviticus 20 verse 13. Thank you, brother. 24:20 Appreciate that. Now that was just a few...a couple of Old 24:23 Testament texts and some people say that's Old Testament. You 24:26 know I'm a New Testament Christian, Ryan. And I've even 24:28 had some friends who are homosexual that know, who I went 24:31 to college with who are now in the clergy of their church who 24:35 are active practicing homosexuals. But they say, 24:38 New Testament does not preach on this, does not declare 24:42 homosexuality as a sin. Well Pastor James just quoted in 24:46 reference Romans chapter 1. You go read Romans chapter 1. My 24:50 goodness! I'm just going to read a few passages here. This is 24:53 Romans chapter 1 beginning in verse 26. Notice what he says 24:56 here. He's addressing the unrighteous and the wrath that 24:59 God will bring upon the unrighteous and he gives a 25:02 description of this unrighteous. Starting in verse 26 of Romans 1 25:06 He says for this reason God gave them up to vile passions for 25:10 even their women exchanged the natural use, for what is against 25:15 nature. Going back to what God had set in place. They're going 25:18 against what God set in place as the rightful act in nature 25:23 but then it clarifies in verse 27. Likewise also the men 25:27 leaving the natural use of the woman burned in lust for one 25:30 another, men with men committing what is shameful. And then you 25:35 go ahead and read through this passage. By the time you get to 25:39 the last verse here, verse 32, it says, Who knowing the 25:42 the righteous judgment of God that those who practice such 25:46 things are deserving of death. Not only do the same but also 25:50 approve of those who practice them. So you have God's 25:54 condemnation of this act in the Old Testament and then a repeat 25:59 of it even in the New Testament in the writings of Paul where 26:01 God's attitude is, Look this is not my plan. This is not what my 26:06 plan was for you and if a person remains in this particular 26:08 persistent lifestyle what they have to look forward to is a 26:12 life of destruction and death. And then of course, you have 26:16 1 Corinthians chapter 6 verse 9 and 10. It says: Do you not 26:19 know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God 26:22 Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor 26:27 adulters, in the New King James it says, nor homosexuals. The 26:32 original word in the Greek there is malakos which means Calamite. 26:36 Now I'm not going to explain what a calamite (sic) (catamite) 26:38 is. I'm going to stop there. I'll let you do that research. 26:40 It's very graphic okay? It's talking about homosexual actions 26:46 and it goes on to say nor sodomites and the original word 26:52 arsenokoites is the Greek word here for sodomites which is 26:55 literally talking about male homosexuality or in this case 26:59 the homosexuality in general. Women lying with women, men 27:01 being with men. And it goes on to describe...Nor thieves, nor 27:05 covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will 27:09 inherit the kingdom of God. This same principle is repeated in 27:12 1 Timothy chapter 1 verses 9-11. I'm not going to read that 27:15 particular text but the texts in scripture is clear on this. The 27:20 one thing, I love about these texts though and that we have 27:22 already emphasized because it seems like we're highlighting 27:24 the homosexuality, right, or we're beating up the homosexuals 27:27 Every single one of these passages that I've read it talks 27:31 about the thieves, it talks about the extortioners, it talks 27:35 about the liars, the adulterers, the fornicators. So we're not 27:38 here to say only the homosexuality is the worse sin 27:40 of them all and you all deserve to go to hell. No! We're saying 27:45 sin is sin and this happens to be one of those sins that our 27:49 current culture they're shunning from, they're backing away from 27:53 and it's politically incorrect to address this issue in our 27:58 time but the word of God is clear upon it. 28:01 But I want to say Ryan just because you've made this point 28:03 if I could is that we have made that mistake in the past and the 28:08 man that I talked to my church was a previous generation. 28:10 I mean this guy was in his 70s or 80s. And he's isolating that 28:14 and like Proverbs 6 says and Romans 1 says and like 28:18 1 Corinthians says it's all of the sins are all in one category 28:24 When we isolate 28:26 we are bearing false witness That's why I think we're seeing 28:30 this kickback that's taking place in our time (garbled). 28:36 One of the reasons I wanted to deal with it is because of 28:40 culture and the times in which we're living even Adventist 28:44 Christians, many of them are placing this into a political 28:49 platform. You're either on the left or you're on the right. And 28:52 what I'm telling people. This has nothing to do with politics. 28:56 I don't care if you're democrat or you're republican if you 28:59 read the Bible sin is sin is sin is sin is sin, whether it's 29:03 adultery or whether it's homosexuality or abortion. You 29:07 name it. But for some reason when we get up I've never had 29:12 pushback from Seventh-day Adventists. We've been on the 29:15 probably 36 years at least and I've never had pushback from 29:19 Seventh-day Adventists when we preach about adultery, when we 29:23 preach about lying, when we preach about stealing, when we 29:26 preach about you know breaking the Sabbath. But when you preach 29:30 about homosexuality also part of the seventh commandment along 29:35 with committing adultery people push back. And they'll say oh 29:39 you're just on the right side of politics, and then, then, well 29:48 No this has nothing to do with politics whatsoever though 29:51 that's the way people want to line you up. And so James, it's 29:55 a problem within the church. Now you talked about someone that 29:59 you went to college with and maybe not an Adventist in their 30:04 particular church. They want to believe...and I think it's so 30:07 interesting because it hit me the other day. Now these people 30:10 will say there's pastors in some churches already that you know 30:15 they have a number of clergies that are openly homosexual. 30:19 Because they say this, now think about this James, they say this: 30:23 Well the fact that God is not going to hold someone 30:28 accountable, God is not going to be that unfair that He would 30:33 make somebody you know they're born that way and they can't 30:36 help it. God wouldn't be that unfair. My question for you 30:39 Pastor, from whatever denomination, thankfully it's 30:43 not in ours and hopefully it won't be that we have ordained 30:48 homosexual pastors or ordained open adultery, saying that every 30:53 time but isn't it interesting you think God would be unfair 30:57 but yet you teach that God will torture you if you don't agree 31:00 with Him. He would burn you forever and ever and ever. 31:04 He'll torture, God will torture people throughout all eternity 31:07 You preach that but then you uphold and say well God wouldn't 31:11 be so unfair that He would not let me live this kind of a life. 31:16 My ears are like what did they just say? I mean which would be 31:21 more unfair. I mean it's the character of God that's been 31:26 attacked. So this is not just about...people want to say well 31:30 these are the last six commandments and we can't 31:32 mandate any laws of the last six these moral laws. This is a 31:38 worship, this is a worship. It's about the Creator God who 31:41 created Adam and Eve, as we say not Adam and Steve. And so when 31:46 people are openly, blasphemously and trying to come into the 31:51 church. We already have as I mentioned in the sermon at least 31:55 one ordained, maybe more, elder that's transgender. So I mean 31:59 think about that in the church already because no one wants 32:04 to say well this is a sin. We can't be against it. So why do 32:08 we want to do it? The reason I spoke about it when I found out 32:12 that even within our church we have some of our universities 32:16 and I gave a statement I think from PUC (Pacific Union College) 32:19 where they said one of the professors says, and it's a 32:22 public statement so I'm not dogging, you know, talking 32:25 saying anything negative. What he said you can love anyone you 32:29 want to love, we have an affirming theology of all things 32:33 and you can marry whomever you want to marry and still 32:36 basically, go to heaven. I'm paraphrasing. So I thought you 32:39 know when we have people so openly as a church. Now Seventh- 32:44 day Adventists are known for teaching all 10 commandments of 32:47 God. But all of a sudden here we're preaching you've got to 32:51 keep the Sabbath, you've got to keep the Sabbath, but we're 32:54 literally excusing the sixth and seventh commandments because of 32:59 culture. It's time that we stand up. So we kind of named this 33:01 program Silence Is Deadly. And I think for too long too many of 33:05 us and a lot of folk don't know what to do because it's just 33:08 maybe you're one voice at your church or you say I don't have 33:12 an impact or an influence, but I think we have to stand up and 33:16 let people know. If you're on a church board, you're a member of 33:19 a church and they're wanting to bring this in, it's one thing to 33:24 even accept it, it's another thing to celebrate it. So this 33:27 is the statement we read on Loma Linda, we celebrate Pride Month. 33:30 So this has gone so far it's like you know what we have to 33:34 stand up and say look this is not right because we look so 33:38 inconsistent as Seventh-day Adventists. We put out books, 33:41 here's a new one I have called The Lord's Day. And there's a 33:44 reason why I wrote this book because so many people have 33:47 forgotten Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Most of the 33:50 Christian world has it confused. So why do we talk about it? 33:54 Adventists have been harping on it for 150 years. Why? Because 33:59 people seem to have forgotten about it. So the same way now 34:02 we're seeing the sixth and seventh commandments and the 34:05 same thing is happening but it's being accepted in the church and 34:09 so again it's love everybody but we also have to stand up and be 34:15 consistent in our theology. We have people writing us. We went 34:20 on YouTube and there's several people who've put out, not just 34:23 3ABN but others put out the sermon. There's one therefrom 34:28 You want me to take it? (Yes) Okay this comes from someone on 34:31 YouTube. Danny, I have a new respect for you and 3ABN. As a 34:35 person who identified as gay and I and two others came to a 34:40 seminar 22 years ago, agree with your statement. Can't say it's 34:45 not been a struggle but God has done amazing things in my life. 34:47 My friend and roommate of 22 years now whom both of us lived 34:51 that lifestyle have been changed by the grace of God. He took 34:55 what was broken and made it right. He with his very own 34:59 hands developed this friendship out of a gay relationship. We 35:05 both ever since that Adventist seminar knew right from the 35:08 beginning were hearing the truth so we both decided that we were 35:13 going to let God deliver us and build to this very day a solid 35:15 friendship. We are both still active in our church and God has 35:19 seen us through. Preach the truth. Stand by it because all 35:22 of us need it. Conviction is important. Today everything is 35:26 watered down. Can't get into all the details of our walk but let 35:30 me tell you God is very real and in the business to change us. 35:33 Praise God! 35:36 That's not an isolated statement I could tell you there's other 35:40 people who have that experience because I was pastoring a church 35:42 and there was a man who went through the exact same 35:46 experience with his partner. When they came back to the Lord 35:50 both of them said we're going to stay friends but no more of this 35:54 lifestyle and they lived that through until one of them passed 35:57 away and the other one is still alive today and told me his 35:58 testimony, powerful. (Amen) 36:00 So what we're saying is that it's a sin like any other sin 36:05 and therefore if people don't know that it's a sin they won't 36:09 repent. So it's our responsibility as 36:13 Seventh-day Adventist Christians to call out the sin. Again God 36:17 loves the sinner but He hates sin. So by calling it out, 36:21 because when you read and see how it's being so accepted and 36:24 in our universities and our educational system that 36:28 people are accepting it and many of our kids poled, taking a pole 36:33 say well we think it's okay. We don't see anything wrong. And so 36:36 what we have to do is say look we have to love these people. 36:39 We have to call it a sin or their blood will be on our hands 36:42 But I can't believe our time has gone so quickly but I think 36:46 we're going to have to...there's much. We could do a whole 36:48 program and more but we're going to have to switch this... 36:51 I have two Bible verses. (All right) 1 John chapter 1 verse 8 36:56 If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the 37:01 truth is not in us. Verse 10: If we say we have not sinned, we 37:05 make Him a liar and His word is not in us. And then the middle 37:08 verse of this, what I call the gospel sandwich, 1 John 1:9: 37:12 If we confess our sins, He's faithful and just to forgive us 37:15 our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. That's God's 37:20 job and He'll do it. Guaranteed. 37:22 Amen, amen. So now we have to turn. We've been saying the 37:26 sixth and seventh commandments but thou shall not murder. 37:31 Um I think this is a very tough topic to deal with again and 37:35 once again when you talk about what the Bible says so many 37:38 people, even within this church, say oh you're just identifying 37:40 with politics and the people on the right. So I'm saying, I 37:45 could care less in this sense, take this right, it's not 37:51 important what Rowe vs. Wade and how the Supreme Court deals with 37:53 with it. What's important is how does God deal with it? What does 37:55 God say about abortion and that should be the standard. So we 38:00 don't care if the republicans are for it or against it or if 38:03 the democrats are for it or against it. We have to say how 38:06 does God look at it? Now what I brought out in my sermon was 38:11 that God does not make a distinction between the born and 38:16 the unborn. So man does that. So one of the very, very 38:21 difficult things, and I didn't deal with it in the sermon, but 38:25 I want to deal with it a little bit here today because people... 38:29 and I've seen this over and over and over again, when pastors say 38:33 that well we're against abortion but remember we think a woman 38:37 has a right to choose. God created us as free moral agents 38:41 so what are you really saying when you say that is that but is 38:47 a huge word because I'm against abortion but God made us free 38:51 moral agents. Well we talk about yes He did but the wages of sin 38:56 are death so if I choose sin. So it's important to understand 38:59 that there's no...God doesn't differentiate, makes no 39:02 distinction between the unborn and the born. So the same 39:07 principle applies to killing a baby in the womb as one outside 39:10 the womb. But I made a statement and I think I should address it 39:15 because what's happening so many people have written me and said 39:17 we agree with you all except in the cases of rape and incest. 39:21 We think that rape and incest is excused. And once again what 39:30 happens is culture and it's people's emotions. Maybe we've 39:34 had personal experiences or whatever happens and so all I 39:39 can say is what the Bible says. Like looking at you now. We're 39:44 not condemning people. It's not for us to condemn what you do. 39:48 But as people God has given us a platform, we just have to tell 39:53 you the truth, what the Bible says. The Bible does not make an 39:56 exception for rape and incest. Now we can justify it and maybe, 40:02 I'm going to go so far to say you know are there exceptions? 40:05 There may be exceptions. People bring out a good one; well what 40:09 about the life of the mother or the life of the baby, they both 40:13 can't live. Those are things that you and your doctor and 40:18 you know the parents have to decide. But knowing because now 40:22 I've read some statements and I won't put those out but even 40:26 people within this church saying well if you find out a baby in 40:31 the womb is Down's syndrome that's okay. No, it's not. 40:35 There's nothing in the Bible. There's some wonderful Down's 40:38 syndrome children. I've seen them before congress begging 40:42 congress Please don't make laws to you know to kill us. We 40:50 should have the opportunity of life like everyone else. And so 40:53 I can tell you straight up, Down's syndrome is no exception 40:58 and people that is murder when we kill those babies. Are there 41:02 some exceptions. There's exceptions to everything in life 41:03 But I said I could take that to if I wanted to say what about 41:08 lying. We could never lie. We don't preach exceptions. Like 41:12 I've heard stories in World War II. The people were hiding 24 41:15 Jews. Nazis came to their house to kill them. Are you hiding 41:19 Jews and they said No. They were. Had they said yes they 41:23 would have killed 24 Jews. Now if they said no, it's a lie. Now 41:30 if that person between them and God. I doubt they're going to be 41:34 like really scared of saying maybe I did the wrong thing. 41:36 But we can't live on exceptions. And we as those representing the 41:42 gospel can't teach exceptions. So we can just tell you what 41:46 the Bible says. So for people who say well I believe that 41:49 every bit I'm against abortion except in the case of rape and 41:53 incest. I'm sorry. We don't have...You can feel the way you 41:58 want about it, you can make your own decision what you want to do 42:02 about it but there's no scripture in the Bible that we 42:05 can give that actually says that's okay. So it's between you 42:10 and God. So I don't know how to say that... 42:13 No, I think that's the way you say it. You said it just the way 42:15 in needed to be said. In fact you were talking about 42:17 exceptions, you were talking about exceptions. I just found 42:19 out recently, I'm 33 years old, I just found out recently, my 42:22 dad was telling me. I was talking about your sermon and 42:24 how many you preached on this subject and my 42:26 dad tells me a story about my own birth. He says yeah 42:30 he says when you developed you developed in the Fallopian tube 42:33 because you didn't move down to the womb or to the uterus. 42:36 He say so you were growing and growing in the Fallopian tube 42:38 and there came a time when the doctor...it was becoming serious 42:41 and the doctor said if this baby doesn't move down in a week we 42:45 we're not going to have any other choice. You know it could 42:47 potentially harm the life of my mother. I was one of those 42:50 babies. So my mom had a week where she was going to have to 42:54 make to abort me or not. And praise the Lord, within that 42:59 week I moved down to the right department, (that's prayer) I 43:01 I moved down to the right department and praise the Lord. 43:06 But I didn't know this, My dad was recently telling me Now that 43:08 would have been an exception. Not that my mom wanted to 43:10 selfishly take my life but that was a serious medical situation 43:14 that could have...obviously going to take the baby's life, 43:17 but it would have potentially harmed my mother's life if she 43:21 would have said, I'm keeping this baby. I'm having this baby. 43:23 I'm going to let it continue to grow whatever the case may have 43:24 been. And so there are serious situations like that and there 43:29 are exceptions but in your case you're saying rape, incest... 43:31 Ninety-eight to 99 percent, 98 percent at least of abortions 43:36 are just from inconvenience. Very rarely is it a case of rape 43:44 or incest. So there are cases. Again, the Bible doesn't make a 43:49 distinction so people have to decide between them and God and 43:52 your answer to God what to do with that. I wish I could say 43:56 yes this is the case because emotionally it sure seems like 43:59 it. To be honest with you, if that happened and I had a 44:02 10-year-old daughter and she was raped I don't know what I 44:06 would do at this point. I'd have to have it. But I can't give you 44:09 any exceptions from the Bible because it's just not there. 44:13 So for preachers who want to wipe it under the rug and just 44:16 say well you know I'm against abortion but in the case of rape 44:20 and incest it's okay. I just don't think we should preach 44:23 that you know people have to make that decision. You see they 44:26 are free moral agents, but we have to tell them the truth. 44:28 I want to quickly deal with the mother. The mother having... 44:35 these are terrible decisions that affect them the rest of 44:36 their life. We as a church and as a body of Christians need 44:40 to love these mothers. We need to support these women that make 44:44 these decisions and so to do everything we can for the mother 44:49 in the valley of decision. Loving them, talking about other 44:52 options if they have the baby. We should do all that we can. 44:55 And all sins are forgiven. Isn't that great. We have the love of 45:00 God. So all sin. We're not again doing...But we have to deal with 45:03 these things in the church and people can't just go about 45:08 making statements. Because that's exactly what Sunday 45:11 pastors say about the Sabbath. Well you know I think all the 45:13 commandments are important but on the Sabbath one I really just 45:16 that's you know it's really up to a decision. People are free 45:21 moral agents and it can be an exception that we don't have to 45:24 do it. But we as Adventists, we jump over sin like what, what 45:28 are you talking about? There's 10 commandments. You've got to 45:30 keep all 10 of those commandments. 45:33 You see but when it's a different one and we're 45:37 emotionally involved then we say well maybe...but so, anyway. 45:40 James, we've got a couple of minutes What do you say? 45:44 Well you know mankind has been given a free will. We had a 45:47 question come in about this. And a woman has a right to choose an 45:50 abortion but does that mean that choosing an abortion is not a 45:54 sin in God's sight? You know mankind chose to sin and they 45:57 had the right to choose and even God supported the right for us 46:01 to choose. Otherwise, we'd be mere robots. But this choice 46:05 comes with a consequence, an awful consequence. So yes a 46:10 woman can choose to sin but aborting the baby just like a 46:13 thief can choose to steal and a liar can choose to lie. But the 46:17 consequences of choosing the abortion is murder. So what 46:19 we say to someone who wanted to murder their own child. You say 46:23 I support your right to choose to murder your own child or 46:26 would we say no please do not use your free choice to murder 46:30 your child. As believers we can't force people to choose not 46:33 to sin, however, and this is huge we cannot support sin in 46:38 anything. We cannot say that abortion is not sin in God's 46:41 sight. Therefore, while we recognize that women have this 46:44 free choice we cannot in any way say that free choice to have an 46:48 abortion is anything less than the murder of an innocent baby. 46:50 And we can't take an exception to destroy the rule. God has a 46:56 rule. This is the fifth commandment or the sixth 46:58 commandment. We can't say these exceptions can do away with that 47:00 rule. You know I before e except after c but exception doesn't 47:03 destroy the rule i before e. 47:07 And Ryan we have to...I know we're getting ready to close out 47:10 But we have to make our decisions not based on culture 47:14 not based on politics. And if I had time I wanted to go into it 47:19 more because as I was saying the left wouldn't like what I 47:22 have to say and the right doesn't like...way back as far 47:24 as I had one preacher challenge me; say something about 47:28 Christian nationalism which I'd never heard that word. Or say 47:30 something to the right. You won't do that. That's absolutely 47:33 when Jerry Falwell came up with moral majority and I saw where 47:38 it was going and then Pat Robertson. I didn't vote for Pat 47:41 Robertson, wouldn't have because why? I realize what they're 47:44 trying to do is establish the government, in other words, put 47:48 in place politicians who will make laws forcing people to do 47:54 what they want. So I'm against that part of the right. So I 47:56 will say that to the whole world But the left when you see how 48:00 Godless they are, wanting to do away with God, do away with His 48:04 commandments, do away with... I mean, and accept homosexuality 48:08 abortion, all of these things even after the child is born. 48:12 I mean, that's just unthinkable. So what happens have the people 48:16 on the right the Christians were watching people on the left and 48:20 when they came with Roe vs. Wade and then they said, Man our 48:23 country's getting ungodly, let's go so...What happened we're all 48:27 in a boat and the right fell out and the left fell out and the 48:29 boat's empty just about because people fall out on one side of 48:33 the boat or the other and that's where we are today. So for us to 48:37 get caught up in politics to the point you know, I'm republican 48:41 and I'm democrat, you know whatever. We have to be very 48:45 careful about doing that because the only party that will last 48:48 for eternity is Jesus' party. So let's be on the side of Jesus 48:52 and on His party. But no. We can't go by the left and I can 48:56 tell you now, if when I talk about things like the group 49:00 organization Black Lives Matter and talk about the ungodly and 49:05 lawlessness of it people...I'll get 2000 emails people upset 49:09 about it but lawlessness and righteousness don't meet up so 49:12 I don't really care what they say. Will I say the same thing 49:15 about white supremacists or KKK? Absolutely. Lawlessness and 49:21 righteousness does not match up, they don't mix and so we can't 49:25 be over here on the right defending this. We can't be on 49:29 the left but just because we talk about it sin is sin is sin. 49:32 And so we have to stand up while we have time and have a voice to 49:37 do it. James, we want to do another program with you. We 49:42 don't have time today but there's so much going around 49:43 about America in prophecy, some stuff I've never heard before 49:46 and I feel like we're having a hard time saying even within our 49:50 church we're having some differences. And I know you've 49:52 been doing a tremendous amount of study so we'd like to 49:55 dedicate a whole program come back with you as soon as we can 49:58 I'll come back with my democrat/ republican tie. See I've got 50:03 both colors right here. Because we need to let go. We need to 50:07 love everyone. That's what the gospel is all about. (Yeah yeah) 50:10 You know I have friends that support both of the things that 50:16 we are preaching against today. Because the Bible addresses the 50:20 issue clear. And I have friends that are going to watch this 50:23 program and I'm going to get messages and they're going to... 50:26 I can't believe you. And these are people that I love, people 50:28 that you know these are my friends and family that I love 50:31 dearly and I'm just going to address them. You know I love my 50:35 friends and I love my family. You know who you are. And the 50:37 situation is that I want everyone to like me as a 50:41 minister. I think as ministers we want people to like us, we 50:43 want people to love us and we want people to support us but at 50:45 the end of the day I want God to like me more and I have a 50:49 responsibility as a minister that even in those difficult 50:52 situations when having to address these difficult issues 50:55 there are ministers that compromise, they sugarcoat, 50:57 they water down because they're terrified to say what needs to 50:59 say what needs to be said because they're going to lose a 51:02 friend, they're going to lose support. And you know, I don't 51:04 want that either. My human side says I don't want to lose my 51:07 friends and I don't want my friends to think negative of me. 51:11 But I also want to go to heaven and I also want to be grounded 51:16 in Jesus Christ so I have to preach the word. The Bible makes 51:18 it very clear that we are to be sanctified by the word, His word 51:22 is truth. 51:23 Absolutely. And remember silence is deadly because we 51:28 will be held accountable when we don't stand up against open sin. 51:31 When we see things coming in our church that are wrong we need to 51:34 hold our leaders and our church boards accountable. I'm not just 51:38 talking about General Conference whomever. Our local boards, 51:42 start there. Hold them accountable when you see them 51:45 compromising or diluting the word of God because being silent 51:49 that blood will be on our hands I really believe and it's going 51:52 cost many, many souls. We have to call sin for what it is. 51:55 Today's culture, we talked about some of the things but we need 51:58 to come back and do some more programs and show how sin 52:03 progresses when we compromise. And James we got to do that 52:06 program on you also. 52:10 That's right. And the word of God is powerful, the word of God 52:11 is clear and you know we need not be confused on these issues. 52:14 So it's been a great time talking with you guys. We're not 52:16 quite through yet though. My friends we're going to take a 52:19 short break and we're going to come back with some final 52:22 thoughts in just a few moments. So don't go anywhere. We'll 52:24 be right back. |
Revised 2023-02-15