Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY220031A
|
00:02 ♪ ♪
00:04 ♪ I want to spend my life mending broken people ♪ 00:15 ♪ I want to spend my life removing pain ♪ 00:23 ♪ Lord let my words heal a heart that hurts ♪ 00:36 ♪ I want to spend my life mending broken people ♪ 00:57 ♪ ♪ 01:07 Hello and welcome to 3ABN Today. I'm Yvonne Shelton and I'm so 01:13 excited. We have such an amazing program for you today. You're 01:16 going to be blessed and inspired by the grace of God because we 01:22 are going to talk about a subject that is near and dear to 01:25 so many of our hearts. All of us are either caught up in or have 01:31 a loved one who is caught up into some kind of stronghold. 01:35 And we're going to talk about strongholds today with our 01:40 guests. I have a scripture that I'd like to share. It's 01:43 2 Corinthians 10 verses 3-5. And it says: For though we walk in 01:51 the flesh we do not war according to the flesh. For the 01:55 weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for 02:00 pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and 02:06 every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of 02:09 God bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of 02:14 Christ. Today we're going to talk about pulling down those 02:19 strongholds and so after our special music I'm going to 02:24 introduce you to our guests and we are going to be blessed. 02:27 Our special music is by none other than my dear friend, 02:32 Reggie Smith who is going to be singing I Have Fixed My Mind. 02:36 ♪ ♪ 02:53 ♪I have fixed my mind on another time, on another time ♪ 03:03 ♪ And here I mean to stand until God gives me more light ♪ 03:21 ♪ And that is today, today today until He comes ♪ 03:33 ♪I have fixed my mine on another time, on another time ♪ 03:51 ♪ I have set my course on the narrow way ♪ 03:56 ♪ On the narrow way ♪ 04:03 ♪ For I know the time is close at hand ♪ 04:09 ♪ for which I watch and pray ♪ 04:16 ♪ And that is today, today today until He comes ♪ 04:30 ♪ I have set my course on the narrow way ♪ 04:36 ♪ On the narrow way ♪ 04:44 ♪ Even so Lord come quickly This is my fervent prayer ♪ 04:56 ♪ For I've caught a Glimpse of glory ♪ 05:03 ♪ And I'm longing to be there ♪ 05:11 ♪ ♪ 05:24 When shall the Son of Man appear The trumpet sound its blast ♪ 05:34 ♪ And Christ descend in glorious fire With all the saints amassed 05:48 ♪ We'll rise with those Who sleep no more ♪ 05:55 ♪ To meet Him in the air ♪ 06:02 When shall the Son of Man appear The Son of Man appear ♪ 06:21 ♪ Even so Lord come quickly this is my fervent prayer ♪ 06:32 ♪ For I've caught a glimpse of glory ♪ 06:38 ♪ and I'm longing to be there ♪ 06:46 ♪ For I've caught a glimpse of glory ♪ 06:55 ♪ and I'm longing to be there ♪ 07:12 ♪ I have fixed my mind on another time ♪ 07:23 ♪ On another time ♪ 07:50 Thank you so much, Reggie. I just love Reggie and Ladye Love. They 07:58 are just such a blessing. Every time I hear them sing I'm so 08:02 blessed. So thank you so much for being with us and now I'm 08:06 going to introduce our wonderful guests. I have to tell you, you 08:10 know sometimes you just have favorite ministries and favorite 08:14 people and these are two of my favorite people right here. 08:17 Michael Carducci who is the cofounder and chairman of 08:22 Coming Out Ministries, and Pastor Ron Woolsey who is a 08:28 cofounder of Coming Out Ministries. And I have known you 08:32 guys for quite some time now and I am so impressed with what God 08:37 is doing through you with this ministry. Because it is so much 08:44 broader than what people might expect. So let's talk a bit 08:48 about Coming Out Ministries. Excuse me, but first, let's talk 08:52 a bit about you because some of our viewers and our audience on 08:58 radio and television might not be familiar with you and so talk 09:02 about who you are, where you come from and Coming Out 09:05 Ministries, how you got to form that. 09:08 Sure. Well it actually started 12 years ago and there were five 09:12 individuals that got together. Ron was speaking in Soquel, 09:16 California and we all decided well you know let's go and check 09:19 out this guy and so I had met Wayne Blakely and then these two 09:23 sisters, Lisa and Vinna Santos. So we went to the camp meeting 09:27 and we all met together and um it was interesting. One of the 09:30 people brought up, they go well if one ministry is good that has 09:34 one story, imagine what a ministry would be like if it had 09:37 five stories. And that's kind of how Coming Out Ministries was 09:41 born. 09:42 And I'd just like to add that we were all speaking individually 09:47 about our perspectives from our testimonies and we did come to 09:53 the consensus that working united we'd have much greater 09:57 impact than all of us individually. And we still 10:00 travel a lot individually but as a team the impact was much 10:05 greater than everyone working individually. 10:08 Yes, yes. So what is Coming Out Ministries? 10:10 Well Coming Out Ministries is really not...I think it's much 10:15 broader now than just our catch verse which was coming out of 10:20 darkness into God's marvelous light. I think of it as more 10:23 like Revelation 18:4 and it says Come out of her my people and be 10:27 not partakers of her sins. So it's much broader and a lot of 10:31 people kind of pigeonhole us into an ex-gay ministry but 10:34 really we do just as much about addressing pornography addiction 10:40 premarital sex, abortion, as well as the LGBT dilemma that's 10:45 going on in our world today. Our motto is, Igniting an 10:48 unquenchable fire restoring all men and women back to the image 10:52 of our Creator God. And I think that that's really what we've 10:55 been looking for what the Lord is going to accomplish you know 10:59 from Genesis to Revelation restoring us back to who we were 11:02 meant to be. 11:04 Yes, so it's more than...you started out being a group of 11:08 people who came out from the LGBTQ community and now it's 11:16 so much broader than that. One of the things I love about your 11:21 ministry is that it is so much broader. It's not just focused... 11:26 It's focused on sin and victory. It's not focused on just one 11:30 particular group and one particular sin. Sexual sin is a 11:36 huge umbrella and you guys focus on getting victory from that 11:41 stronghold. 11:42 Well Yvonne, it kind of revealed itself. You know we had always 11:46 been marginalized and we'd always felt that we were not a 11:50 part of something or felt like we didn't belong. But when 11:53 people started coming up to us and saying, Oh I was never gay 11:57 but everything that you said I really relate to. So it's really 12:00 about victory over sin. Somebody even called us the a, oh what is 12:06 it, the...you know it's like the issue of the day. It's like this 12:10 is really about victory over sin and righteousness by faith. 12:14 So they kind of opened our eyes a little bit and said Oh so it's 12:17 much broader than just coming out of the gay culture. It's 12:20 really about coming out of sin. 12:22 Yes, yes. 12:23 You know in the church today not just in the world but in the 12:26 church today the thinking is that people can just be saved 12:32 in their LGBT issues. This issue is being used to shed a great 12:41 deal of light on the two ideologies of salvation in sin 12:47 or salvation from sin. And for some reason you know Satan 12:52 thinks he's so clever that he's found one issue where he thinks 12:56 he has God over a barrel. Because even in the church 13:01 people will say well God made you that way or God loves you 13:05 just the way you are. And there's this movement to embrace 13:09 homosexuality, not adultery, but homosexuality, not alcoholism 13:16 but homosexuality. In other words they're taking this one 13:22 issue and separating it from the basket of sins and looking at it 13:27 through a cultural perspective. And so there's a movement now 13:32 throughout Christianity called posture shift that is trying to 13:37 get the church to shift its position on this one issue. I 13:43 don't know why not all issues but this one issue to shift away 13:47 from the Biblical approach to accommodate and to embrace, to 13:53 affirm homosexuality or the LGBT community. So that is looking at 14:00 scripture through the lens of culture but we believe now we 14:04 need to view culture through the lens of scripture and rather 14:07 than the church changing its position we're trying to help 14:11 the sinner change his position to come back to being in harmony 14:18 with Biblical principles. 14:19 That is such...you gave us so much to chew on right there 14:23 because that's what's going on. I think combining the LGBTQ 14:33 issue with civil rights was something that made more people 14:41 open to saying well a person is born this way or this is a group 14:47 that needs to be protected so to speak. And yeah, we do need 14:54 to protect every group but the point is that what does that 14:58 protection mean? Does that mean that we endorse it as Christians 15:03 or does that mean that we try to help people who are in that life 15:07 style, in that community, help them to see that there's a 15:11 better way that God has for them and I think it's all about love, 15:16 is it not? Not loving endorsing but loving enough to tell them 15:22 that there's a better way. 15:23 Well you know as long as this issue is separated from the 15:27 category of sin there's no hope. And it was when in my own 15:32 personal life, I know Mike you had the same experience, when we 15:37 came to the position of acknowledging this is a sin 15:40 issue. Put it back in the sin basket. And then apply the 15:45 Biblical remedy for sin. That's when I could walk away. Not 15:50 without a struggle. I mean we all struggle with temptation. 15:54 But struggle just makes you stronger. But I was hopeless 15:59 as long as I was justifying my life as an acceptable 16:04 alternative lifestyle or I was born this way or God made me 16:08 this way. But when I read in Jeremiah 3, Only acknowledge 16:11 thine iniquity and then I will heal you from your backsliding. 16:16 That's when I was able...That's when I got hope and I developed 16:24 a courage to take a step because He promised that if I would just 16:28 acknowledge this as a sin issue, it's not a birth defect, it's a 16:32 sin issue, and then God can help and can work miracles in our 16:37 lives. 16:39 So I kind of want to pull what I've been hearing together 16:41 because the verse that you said Everything that exalts itself 16:44 above God and so you were also talking like where did this come 16:48 from, this posture shift. Well for many years, and the reason 16:52 why we left the church when we were young was because the only 16:55 message that we heard was Christianity was making 16:59 exclusive the homosexual sin out of 1 Corinthians chapter 6 and 17:02 they were exalting that as the sin that God just can't help, 17:05 that God hates that sin so much. So now what we find is that it's 17:10 still being exalted. It was drawn out of all of the other 17:13 sins verses 9 and 10, and it's made exclusive and you really 17:18 hit the nail on the head. It's like if we take it out of this 17:21 group of people because verse 11 says such were some of you that 17:25 gave me hope. That was the verse that we weren't hearing in our 17:29 church culture when we left the church culture into the gay 17:32 culture. But now Coming Out now it's being exalted again and it 17:35 is, it's still denying people access to the power to be 17:39 restored and to be redeemed. (yeah) 17:41 And that was such a pivotal text for me when someone showed me 17:45 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. And these are people or behaviors that 17:49 would not be in heaven and I found myself in there three or 17:53 four times (laughter) three or four times and then the fellow 17:58 said look at verse 11, such were some of you. I go whoa. That was 18:05 so dynamic. I mean it was so impactful for me. But ye are 18:12 washed, ye are you know sanctified, justified and I go 18:18 wow. There again the scriptures give the remedy. 18:22 Can I read that scripture so the audience can hear because they 18:26 might not be familiar with it. It's 1 Corinthians 6 verses 9-11 18:31 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the 18:35 kingdom of God. Do not be deceived, neither fornicators 18:40 nor idolators nor adulterers nor homosexuals nor sodomites 18:44 nor thieves nor covetous nor drunkards nor revilers nor 18:48 extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God and such were 18:52 some of you, but you were washed but you were sanctified but you 18:59 were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit 19:03 of our God. (Amen) And that is so hopeful. It's saying yes you 19:08 were here but now you're here. You're no longer that. You can 19:12 have victory over that. And it doesn't just isolate 19:16 homosexuality. It puts all of these sins together under the... 19:22 And the King James Version is even clearer because it says 19:26 such WERE some of you but ye ARE justified, sanctified, and washed 19:33 So I love that. That's clearer. 19:37 Yeah, this is the New King James 19:38 It's much clearer. (Yeah) 19:39 I think what's also beautiful about that verse is that it 19:42 talks about you're justified, sanctified and it's not 19:44 a power, it's not something that we could do. So you know when 19:47 somebody said I was born this way you know I give that to them 19:50 it's like yeah you're right. I could never change. Yes you're 19:53 right, I couldn't change either. This is work that only Jesus 19:55 Christ can do. So when you make one of those sins exclusive 20:01 you've now cut them off from the sanctifying and the justifying 20:04 process of what Jesus died on the cross to give to all of us. 20:08 So that's not love, that's lost. 20:11 Yes, yes, yes, Some of our viewers and our radio audience 20:15 might not be familiar with your testimony. If you guys could 20:19 just give a synopsis of where God brought you from to where 20:23 you are now. 20:25 Sure Um when I was four years old my first conscious thought 20:27 that I could remember was that I was a girl trapped in a boy's 20:31 body. And I didn't realize that there was a difference, a 20:35 detachment that happened between me and my father and as I grew 20:39 up I was reminded that I was inadequate because of my 20:43 feminine mannerisms after patterning after my mom. 20:45 I only liked playing with dolls, I liked dressing up in her 20:48 clothes. Kids in school that saw my mannerisms would call me 20:52 sissy, queer, little girl and what that did is this lack of 20:55 masculine affirmation just drove me into these feelings of 20:59 inadequacy, so I thought well if I'm inadequate as a boy maybe if 21:02 I was a girl I would be loved. Maybe I would be accepted. That 21:05 followed me until I was 20 years old and at 20 years old I even 21:08 thought as a Christian that the only solution, because at 13 I 21:12 had same-sex attraction. I wasn't born gay. That actually 21:15 developed or revealed itself when I was 13 again because of 21:19 the lack of affirmation and love that I wasn't receiving from 21:23 males that became sexualized at puberty. So then I thought okay 21:29 well if God doesn't approve of homosexuality and I have 21:33 attractions to men then if I change my body then God will be 21:36 okay with that right because then I'll be you know a female 21:39 and my attractions will be okay. So that followed me until I was 21:42 20. But when I walked out of church culture and into the gay 21:46 culture I found that masculinity was more valuable than 21:50 femininity so that if I butched it up and work at it in the gym 21:52 I found that I got all the attention from men. I never 21:55 struggled with that again. So then 20 years of living in the 21:59 gay culture hoping that I would have a relationship with just 22:02 one person and that maybe God would just accept that I was 22:05 just doing the best I could. But after 20 years of that, sexually 22:10 addicted, in five significant relationships, I found myself 22:14 once again being invited to accept Jesus' grace and only 22:18 because I had three sisters that were praying for me. I'm still 22:22 amazed that that invitation came around again and that was 22 22:25 years ago. 22:27 Wow, wow. So 22 years ago you accepted the Lord Jesus Christ 22:31 into your life and you've been walking with Him... 22:34 Yes, with a boyfriend. Yeah. And an addiction. And the Lord was 22:37 so patient in that process and you know nobody should have 22:41 baptized somebody like me but you know God was taking me on 22:44 this journey and I believe that He knew that I needed to be 22:48 baptized to begin that journey out of all of that confusion. 22:51 Yeah, here I am. 22:54 Wow, look at God. Look at God. You know so many people...I 23:00 think one of the things that I've heard over the years about 23:01 people in the LGBTQ communities that when they are in their own 23:06 environment there's total acceptance and love and that 23:09 they can feel you know loved and appreciated. And I think if we 23:15 could just show love to people who are going through this. 23:20 Again not an endorsement of the lifestyle just like you wouldn't 23:23 endorse somebody who's in adultery. You know but you love 23:26 them through it. They can have a safe space to share their 23:31 journey. What about you Pastor Ron? 23:32 Let me just add to that about being loved in the gay community 23:35 It is a counterfeit because if God is not in the mix then that 23:41 love does come up short. (That's a good point) And it is a love 23:47 that is I like to call it a cheap love. It's really more of 23:50 a self-focused love again because without God in the mix 23:57 it is a self-focus rather than an outward focus. But I think 24:03 I was conditioned through a warped perspective on life. 24:07 As I was growing up I was actually molested when I was 24:13 four and I was repeatedly violated when I was grade school 24:16 as a young person. And I did have this perception of 24:19 rejection. I didn't feel like I fit in. Because I think when a 24:23 little boy is molested by an older boy or a man it tends to 24:29 rob him of his masculinity. It robs him of his manhood and so 24:33 I grew up with that warped perspective. My parents had no 24:37 idea. I found out years later that they were very loving and 24:41 very caring parents. But I had that warped perspective. So I 24:46 was always longing for male acceptance. I didn't feel like I 24:50 was getting it through my father and the male members of the 24:55 family in my life. And so I had this void. The gay community 25:01 will fill those voids. You know Satan would love to step in and 25:06 fill the voids in your life if they're not filled by a 25:10 wholesome relationship and by God. In my youth, I thought that 25:19 marriage would take care of all of the confusion because I was a 25:23 spiritual young person. I actually started to be a pastor/ 25:27 medical 25:29 missionary, taking premed and theology. But my confusion was 25:33 so great I thought well if I just get married it'll take care 25:37 of everything. Well I think anyone that's ever been married 25:41 is married knows that being married is the beginning of woes 25:45 But you never 25:47 imagine if you're not married for the right reason or the 25:48 right person with the blessing of God and with the right 25:52 chemistry. And you know I chose to have a Christian home and to 25:58 make Christian babies and have a Christian education and all of 26:01 that but I realized very quickly I'd made a terrible mistake. 26:04 And I ended up falling into the gay culture and breaking up my 26:08 marriage and lived that way for many years. But even with a 26:11 degree in theology I did not have an understanding of 26:16 salvation from sin. And I'm not the only one. I've met a number 26:21 of people with that same misconception about the plan 26:24 of salvation. But I too had praying family, praying parents. 26:28 They would not let me go through their intercessory prayers. They 26:32 loved me unconditionally, loved my friends and the Lord worked 26:37 through that to draw. And I didn't have piece I didn't have 26:42 rest with my situation and I finally turned to the word of 26:45 God looking for answers and I know I tell this story all the 26:49 time. I started out with a margarita in one hand a 26:53 cigarette in the other reading Steps to Christ. And that's how 26:56 I started my journey back. But the Lord worked through all of 27:00 that and I found all of my answers through the word of God. 27:04 Previously I went through counseling with my wife before 27:11 I divorced and we were told that that kind could never change. 27:15 And that left me bitter and angry against God and the church 27:19 and pastors because... 27:21 Even that expression, that kind 27:23 That kind yeah that kind. It was very demeaning but I never 27:29 really could fully accept that. So as I studied for myself 27:34 rather than for the professors I was no longer studying for a 27:38 degree. I had that. Now I was studying for my survival. And 27:41 then I found the answers because in studying for myself I 27:44 developed a relationship with the Lord. And when I got to the 27:48 point where I loved the Lord more than I loved my gay life 27:52 then I was able to make the break. And a Godly love is 27:57 really a very key stepping stone and a turning point in the life. 28:02 And then within a year, I was married again. We had more 28:07 children, more Christian babies. We made more Christian babies. 28:10 Now we have more children. I've been in ministry at least 30 28:15 years now. And having been on both sides of the issue, I can 28:20 vouch for the fact that God's way's better. Father does know 28:25 best. And Satan is a deceiver. He's a counterfeiter and his 28:31 love for you is not really love. His love is really a disguised 28:36 hate for Jesus. And he will make you think that his way is a 28:42 loving way when really it's a way of hate and destruction. 28:45 And God's way is a way of life. 28:48 Yes, I love the fact that you've been able to see it from both 28:54 sides and that you can say, This is the better place to be in, 28:57 both of you can say this is the better place to be in. And I 29:02 think you know we've all had one kind of stronghold or another 29:06 and this is the better place to be in because we know that the 29:11 Lord will give us victory and the Lord's not sitting there 29:13 waiting to zap you. I think so many people when they're dealing 29:20 with people who have strongholds a lot of Christians are very 29:22 condemning, very negative. It's not a safe space. Who would want 29:29 to talk about that with them. And that's why I love you guys' 29:33 ministries so much because people of all different groups 29:37 under this one umbrella of sexual sin can come and say hey 29:43 how did you guys get free from the thing that was holding you 29:48 that was binding you so much? So tell us, walk us through, 29:52 what...when people come to you how do you meet their needs? 29:57 What do you do for them? 29:58 Thank you for that. And I think it's real important to address 30:01 the fact that it wasn't like an immediate flipping of a switch 30:05 and Ron and I were redeemed and all of that kind of stuff. 30:10 Mmm, that's a really good point. 30:11 Right, right. It's a process. You know when we share the 30:14 stories of Mary Magdalene had to be healed of demons seven times 30:19 and the general that had to dip into the river seven times 30:22 before he was clean. It's like wow it would have been a whole 30:24 lot more convenient if you just hit me with that magic wand and 30:27 boom it was all over. But I think that in the process of 30:30 that, the falling and getting back up and the falling and 30:32 and getting back up, I think that it helps any person that 30:38 says why do I still have those thoughts and those feelings? 30:40 Why do I still have this draw to that you know? And to address 30:46 that in a realistic way but in a redemptive way saying that Jesus 30:50 would rather us struggle to learn how to depend on Him for 30:54 each and everything rather than if He just took it away for our 30:57 convenience and it didn't improve our relationship with 31:00 Him at all. I find that I have to hang onto Jesus Christ every 31:04 second of every day recognizing that He doesn't take away the 31:08 thoughts and the feelings but He promises to give us victory 31:11 over that. And so I think that the first thing that we do to 31:15 relate to anybody is to let them know that through our experience 31:18 we get you. We understand what you're going through and 31:21 hopefully what they also see is that wow change doesn't 31:26 necessarily come in the way that you think it does, but change 31:29 will come because He promised it 31:31 Oh, that is so beautiful. And I think it is really important for 31:36 people to know that it is a process again just like getting 31:41 through any other kind of sin. It is a process that depends 31:46 upon our relationship with Jesus Christ. He, if we abide in Him, 31:51 you know John 15 If we abide in Him, we can do anything 31:55 but if we let go of that power source, we're lost. 31:59 And that is the key for every sin is abiding in Christ. 32:05 You know Yvonne there's a great misconception among well the gay 32:11 community, LGBT community, in particular and I imagine it 32:15 spreads beyond that as well, but the misconception is that, and 32:22 we've heard it many times, people say Oh I've prayed the 32:24 Lord would take the gay away and He didn't take it away, so it 32:28 must be okay. He made me this way, He loves me this way, He 32:31 didn't take it away. And that's such a terrible misconception 32:35 because God doesn't promise to take away temptation. He 32:40 promises that His grace is sufficient to meet that 32:44 temptation. If He took everything away we'd be weak. 32:48 He says no, My strength is made perfect in your weakness so He 32:54 promises to give us strength so we try to help people see that 32:59 you don't need to identify yourself by the nature of your 33:03 temptations. Don't think that because you accept Christ that 33:07 you'll be free from temptation. I've had people come to me and 33:11 ask when you accepted Jesus did you stop being tempted in that 33:15 area and I say well I was baptized, but Satan wasn't. 33:18 I chose a new direction for my life. Satan didn't change his 33:24 methods and his behavior. So no. And if you want to define me by 33:30 the nature of my temptations what are you going to say about 33:34 Jesus who was tempted in all points like as we are, yet 33:37 without sin. You're not going to define Jesus by the nature of 33:41 temptation. Don't define me by the nature of temptation. And 33:45 don't define yourself by the nature of the things you're 33:49 struggling with. Because struggle makes you strong. 33:53 So Jesus resisted unto blood striving against sin then maybe 34:00 we will too. But just don't define yourself by that. And 34:05 that to me was such a great help to come to that realization that 34:10 temptation is not sin. And temptation does not need to 34:14 identify. Satan has a customized plan for everyone's life and 34:18 temptation reveals his plan for your life, not God's plan and 34:24 not my plan. Because I don't have to yield and I can choose 34:29 a different path. And we really try to help people see that 34:32 because when they see that then they stop getting so discouraged 34:36 over temptation. They realize that they're in this great 34:40 controversy between Christ and Satan and they can choose to 34:45 resist that and not identify with that but identify with 34:48 Christ's plan for their life in spite of the temptation. 34:50 That is such a good point. Temptation itself is not sin. 34:55 It's what you do with it. It's how you respond to it that's 35:00 sinful. So if a man sees a woman walking down the street and 35:06 she's attractive, you can acknowledge that she's 35:09 attractive but if he starts gawking you know sweating and 35:13 stuff like that (laughs) lusting letting the mind just...you know 35:19 and nurturing those thoughts then that's another whole... 35:22 that's yielding to the temptation. But the temptation 35:25 itself comes from the accuser of the brethren, so of course he 35:28 wants to tempt. So I'm glad that you are saying this because what 35:32 you're saying to us is that the temptation doesn't necessarily 35:38 go away. 35:39 Or define you. 35:40 Or define you. Those are two really important points. It 35:44 doesn't go away necessarily. Because I think, I think some 35:47 people will say oh yeah now they say they're saved so they 35:51 don't ever have any of these temptations again. That's not... 35:55 We all have temptations. 35:57 I think it misrepresents the gospel. 35:59 How? Tell us. 36:01 Because if you have this kind of perfectionistic kind of you know 36:05 attitude about that then, then you give me no hope because I'm 36:08 still struggling with those thoughts and those feelings. 36:10 So I think the better thing is to show that that dependency on 36:14 Christ is what's really going to make it. You know the people 36:17 that get to heaven...Remember Jesus said to those that you 36:21 know ran out of the oil, He goes you know I'm sorry I don't know 36:23 you. It's only the people that know Jesus Christ, that know 36:26 what it's like to hold onto you know His grace and to beg and to 36:30 plead for it. I wouldn't beg and plead for it if everything was 36:33 gone for my convenience and I was perfect. I think that what 36:36 Ron said is His strength is made perfect in my weakness. Lord, I'm 36:41 weak again. Lord, again those thoughts. You know Lord help me. 36:43 You know that I think is the intimacy of what Jesus is really 36:47 desperate for each one of us. It's not a gay thing. It's not a 36:50 straight thing. It's a sin thing right? 36:53 But we can...there is a biblical principle that we can starve the 36:58 old and feed the new. And what we feed gets stronger. What we 37:03 starve gets weaker. And you know we're told in Corinthians about 37:07 bringing every thought into captivity under the obedience of 37:11 Christ. And so Satan can throw something our way but we can 37:15 flick it away. We can immediately turn away from that. 37:19 I came up with this little routine about flipping the 37:23 switch and changing the channel and changing the subject and 37:25 turning the page and turning my head you know as a way of 37:29 turning away from all those things because you never know 37:32 when you're going to get hit in the face, not literally, but you 37:36 know like a billboard or something that flashes up on TV 37:40 or on your phone. And it's what you do with it. If you 37:44 immediately bring that thought into captivity and think about 37:47 something else then you're starving the old, feeding the 37:49 new. Submit yourself therefore to God, James says, then resist 37:54 the devil and he will flee from you. So these things can 37:57 eventually, become nonissues because you starved them. 38:01 And these are strategies for strongholds. 38:04 I'm so glad you said that. 38:06 Love that segue. 38:08 I'm so excited because thank you, thank you from the Lord. 38:11 We are going to talk about the upcoming series that you have 38:15 Dare to Dream is producing an upcoming series called 38:20 Strategies for Strongholds featuring Coming Out Ministries. 38:24 Tell us what we're going to look forward to with that. We have to 38:28 look forward to. 38:29 Wow! Well what's really been amazing is we've been scrambling 38:34 trying to put together you know different programs or whatever 38:37 and all of a sudden we found ourselves with more than enough 38:41 people to interview. But we want to be broad enough in our reach 38:45 to really address sexual integrity and not just 38:48 make it about an 38:49 LGBT thing. And the reasons why I think is to make it more 38:53 relevant to everybody that. A lot of times Christians think oh 38:56 it's not my issue, change the channel, when really it's all of 39:00 our issue, we're all humans, we're all prone to you know 39:02 these thoughts and these feelings. So we've lined up... 39:05 we're going to address issues like adultery and abortion and 39:11 yeah, all kinds of stuff, pornography addiction as well as 39:15 the LGBT experience. 39:16 You know when you talk about strategies for strongholds there 39:20 are two kinds of strongholds. And I think it's going to be 39:23 exciting to talk to people about strategies that they came up 39:29 with, Biblical strategies, to break down the strongholds of 39:32 addiction as you mentioned earlier in that scripture but 39:36 also, we want to look at strategies for building new 39:40 strongholds, strongholds for victory. And so I'm excited 39:45 what's coming? And also we have our program is not just about 39:52 LGBT issue as we've been alluding to. Another passage of 39:57 scripture that we refer to is Come out from among them and be 40:01 ye separate, you know from sin and all of that. And we're 40:05 finding that many people relate to our message not because it 40:09 comes from the ex-gay perspective of and experience 40:14 but because it is about overcoming sin period. I shared 40:19 with you earlier about this prisoner that just contacted me 40:24 I don't know whether this would be a good time to mention that 40:27 or not (yes, no it would be perfect) but it's an example of 40:30 how our ministry is reaching people that are not in the LGBT 40:37 community but are struggling with sin. And it was just Friday 40:42 that I got this letter and it was kind of cute because the guy 40:46 he greeted me by every name that I go by. I have multiple 40:51 personalities I guess, multiple identities. He says greeting 40:56 Jesse, Ron, Victor, Pastor Adamson. This very minute I have 41:03 finished reading your book, That Kind Can Never Change, Can They? 41:07 and this is my personal testimony I requested it and 41:11 received it three and a half years ago. It has taken that 41:14 long for me to open and read it. So this is a book that was 41:19 shrink-wrapped and sitting in his cell for three and a half 41:21 years. Our precious father has used you to be an amazing 41:26 testimony. Your life is perfect in that sense for if not for 41:30 your major far from perfect old life portion of your earthly 41:35 life you could not have been and now be the testimony you are to 41:39 me. Hallelujah, how perfect. I hope this letter reaches you 41:43 and that you would read it as you must get tons of mail weekly 41:46 please do read this if you get it. I am a gifted songwriter of 41:51 Christian and worldly music, increasingly worldly. Your 41:56 testimony may change that now. I had ideas to write you 41:59 primarily about music. But I'm so moved by your testimony and 42:04 life story that my interest is expanding more to your testimony 42:07 There is quite a bit of homosexuality in the prisons 42:11 but I'm still naive about much in here even after 40 years. 42:16 So this fellow, he's straight but he's moved by my story. 42:23 I don't know how you could possibly make time but if it can 42:26 be possible somehow I would hope to become friends. You would be 42:30 an excellent pastor for me. We have many interests and 42:34 activities in common, hang gliding, airplane pilot, music, 42:37 biking, motorcycles, running, water skiing and I absolutely 42:43 love to dance. See I used to be a dancer, dance instructor. 42:47 We both fought against court and DA corruption though you won and 42:52 I haven't yet. I've been in prison over 39 years on an 42:57 eight-year sentence for defending my life against a very 43:00 violent home invasion intruder with my legally owned gun and no 43:04 other criminal history every. But most of all I relate well to 43:08 Christian victory principles something I need so much more of 43:12 to hear about and to apply in my daily life and immense struggles 43:16 of prison life wrongly imprisoned. He goes on to talk 43:21 about how his own brother is a pastor but has abandoned him 43:26 many years ago. He says I am a practicing Christian but I have 43:30 fallen much away from much stronger Christian practices 43:34 over previous years. I hope your testimony will continue to pull 43:39 me more fully into living my Christianity better than I am 43:44 now and I hope you will respond. Thanks for hearing me out. 43:49 And this is just...you know I think about that text again 43:52 where you overcome Satan by the blood of the Lamb and by the 43:54 word of our testimony. This fellow is not gay He's in prison 43:59 very straight and yet my testimony really resonated with 44:04 him and gave him hope. This is the point of our ministry. We're 44:08 reaching out to of all different struggles and addictions. It's 44:12 about victory over sin salvation from sin rather than in sin. 44:17 That's great. So what would you say your target audience is with 44:24 your ministry? 44:25 Well at first we wanted to provide the resources that we 44:28 were desperate for and then what we realized is that the church 44:32 isn't ready to receive people like us, many churches aren't 44:35 but through the 12 years of our ministry we've been trying to... 44:40 Ron, what's your catchphrase? 44:41 Well we have like a three pronged approach and it's not 44:46 just for the sinner in need but for the church because we want 44:50 to inspire with our testimonies, we want to enlighten through 44:55 dispelling the myths, you know through science and research 44:59 and reason and experience and we want to equip the church and the 45:08 sinner, like this fellow, equip with the resources that we were 45:14 lacking because we grew up in the church when there were no 45:18 resources, no discussion, no one to talk to and it's just 45:21 amazing. I mean we marvel that the Lord is using us and you 45:25 folks at 3ABN to actually create the very resources that would 45:30 have been so helpful to us in our youth. And we really owe 45:35 you folks a great debt of gratitude for allowing us the 45:39 opportunity to actually create these DVD series and so forth. 45:43 Because people are responding and they're being blessed. 45:46 Praise the Lord. And people need it. You know this is such a need 45:51 across the board. The Lord is coming and we have to have 45:55 victory over sin. We can't just say well I'm a sinner and that's 46:00 it or make excuses for sin when the Lord has promised us victory 46:05 in His word. So how do we get that? So this man, I was going 46:11 say young man, but he's been in prison for almost 40 years. 46:13 He's still young. 46:15 Bless his heart. I guess it's all in perspective right? It's 46:18 all relative. But his life has been so torn up 46:24 and he's acknowledging his need for deliverance from sin. And 46:31 that's what everybody needs to know, how do we have victory, 46:35 how do we live the victorious life? And that doesn't mean 46:39 we're not going to make mistakes or have sin, you know, or sin 46:42 occasionally but we know that if we do sin we have an advocate 46:48 with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous. So what would you 46:54 say your greatest challenges are as you're promoting this victory 46:59 kind of perspective. What kind of challenges, what roadblocks, 47:04 are you running into? 47:05 Sure. I think contemporary sexuality and identity have 47:10 really influenced our churches and our schools a lot. It's very 47:14 difficult to get on our Adventist campuses now, to give 47:18 our story of deliverance and walking with the Lord. And I 47:22 think that that's largely because we're not educating our 47:27 children, we're not letting our children know at a very early 47:30 age, you know, what the problem is and when they're 47:33 indoctrinated by the world through YouTube and through 47:35 other relationships when the church and the schools are 47:39 silent then they have no other option. They buy into that 47:42 identity. President Wilson said at one of the General Conference 47:46 sessions, they did a study and found that 49 percent of our 47:50 Adventist students think that gay marriage is acceptable. 47:53 That's almost 50 percent. 47:56 Right, right. And so to me that means that we've missed the 48:00 opportunities to really affirm identity and sexuality even from 48:03 cradle roll on up. And that doesn't mean that you're 48:06 educating your children about sex but when you are afraid to 48:11 talk about the flag and the rainbow and the seven colors 48:14 you know that God has in His rainbow or you know then what 48:17 happens is we're left for the only option that we have that's 48:20 being promoted and celebrated. 48:22 Our young people are not being educated through the church and 48:26 through Christian institutions. Then all of their information is 48:30 coming from the wrong source. It's coming from the world. 48:32 And that's really a big challenge for us because of this 48:37 cultural approach to a sin issue rather than a biblical approach. 48:41 And so it's kind of an uphill spiritual battle for us to 48:48 convince people to go back to the word. The word of God never 48:51 changes. Culture changes every generation or five times within 48:55 every generation. It's constantly changing but the word 48:58 of God never does. And so that's a big challenge for us to help 49:07 people in the church to turn away from the cultural solutions 49:12 and turn to the Biblical ones. Because we have a world of 49:19 Christians that are in the Christian culture but is it a 49:23 Biblical Christianity or is it just culture. Christian culture 49:29 or Christian faith. And that's a challenge that we're dealing 49:33 with. 49:35 And I think that's a real dilemma you know. The culture 49:38 has turned so...it has made sexuality just recreational. 49:49 It's okay, do whatever feels good. Do you? I mean all of 49:54 these things that are so anti scripture. You were going to say 49:57 something. 49:58 Yeah, because the culture now is saying that even the word of God 50:00 is cruel and hate speech. (Right) Right. You know there's 50:04 a verse in 2 Timothy 3 verse 5 and the first few verses talk 50:07 about living at the end of time. In verse one it says: Know this 50:11 that at the end of the days perilous times shall come. And 50:14 in verse five it talks about that there's a group of people 50:17 that have a form of godliness. You know they have the love 50:20 message and they talk about you know how much you're loved and 50:25 accepted and all of this, this warm fuzzy feeling but they deny 50:28 the power thereof and then we're told from such stay away. Well 50:31 what's the power that they're denying? They're denying the 50:34 power of a re-creative God that came to rescue us, not to leave 50:39 us in our sins, but to rescue us through the power of what He did 50:43 on the cross and that to me is now infiltrating into our church 50:46 culture and again I believe that's the capstone of what we 50:49 really want to reconnect people back to the power of God to 50:52 restore and to redeem. 50:55 That is so beautiful. I mean that is the key. Denying the 50:58 power thereof. What power is it? A form of godliness but denying 51:04 the power thereof. 51:06 A transforming power. 51:09 The transforming, the saving, the delivering power of God, of 51:13 Jesus Christ. That is so powerful. 51:16 I looked up the word salvation. I was studying with a friend and 51:20 I looked up the word salvation in the concordance and it said 51:22 to rescue. The plan of salvation isn't to judge you or to reject 51:27 you. It's to rescue us. And that was really mind-blowing for me. 51:32 It's like that's right, I need to be rescued and if I don't 51:34 accept the power of what Jesus did on the cross I'm not 51:38 going to experience that rescue. 51:39 It's to restore to his original plan. 51:42 Exactly, exactly. Well I know that you want to know how to get 51:47 in touch with these gentlemen with this ministry so let's take 51:51 a look. 51:53 If you would like to contact or know more about 'Coming Out' 51:56 Ministries you can do so in the following ways: You can write to 51:59 them at P. O. Box 107, Tilly Arkansas 72679 52:06 You can visit their website at ComingOutMinistries.org 52:13 You can also send them an email at Admin@ComingOutMinistries.org 52:24 ♪ ♪ |
Revised 2022-08-23