Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY220023A
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00:04 ♪ I want to spend my life mending broken people ♪ 00:13 ♪ I want to spend my life removing pain ♪ 00:25 ♪ Lord let my words heal a heart that hurts ♪ 00:35 ♪ I want to spend my life mending broken people ♪ 00:57 ♪ ♪ 01:06 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn. 01:08 I'm J.D. Quinn. 01:09 And we welcome you to 3ABN Today. We have an incredible 01:15 topic today. One of my favorites And I just want to say this, 01:21 the everlasting gospel, the eternal gospel can be found in 01:27 Revelation 13:8, the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of 01:31 the world. And the goal of the plan of redemption we find in 01:39 2 Corinthians 5:21 that God made Him who knew no sin, Jesus 01:45 Christ, to be sin that we might become the righteousness of God 01:52 in Christ Jesus. I think that is so exciting because 01:58 righteousness by faith is the only kind of righteousness that 02:02 there is. Isn't that what Isaiah said? 02:06 That's what exactly. 02:07 Isaiah 64:6. The best Shelley Quinn can do is like filthy rags 02:11 before the Lord. But when He looks at me He sees the 02:14 righteousness of Christ. Hallelujah. Well we have 02:19 three distinguished guests with us today. Let me introduce them. 02:23 Honey, you want to introduce them? 02:25 Well I certainly can. This is very sophisticated right here. 02:29 I always like talking with doctors. My mother wanted me to 02:32 be a doctor. That's about as close as we got. Doctor, well 02:36 I'm going to say, Bob, Dr. Bob Hunsacker, welcome. 02:41 Thank you. Good to be here. We appreciate our time here. 02:44 Dr. Brian Schwartz, Welcome. 02:47 Good morning. Thank you. 02:48 Amen, amen. And Dee Casper. 02:50 Howdy. Good to be here. 02:53 I just love it. Yeah, that word makes sense. 02:56 That's exactly right. 02:58 You know it's exciting. You've all been at 3ABN before. 03:00 Dr. Hunsaker and Dr. Schwartz serve with ASI. They serve on 03:07 AMEN board. I mean these guys are incredible. We're here today 03:13 to talk about the 1888 Message Study Committee and Bob, you are 03:21 the president (Yes, Uh-huh). Brian what is your position with 03:24 I chair the board. 03:26 You chair the board. And then we've got down here Dee Casper 03:31 who's no...He is no stranger. If you've ever watched Raw 03:36 Questions and Relevant Answers you've seen Dee Casper at his 03:41 best. And Dee, you are the director for CORE Evangelism. 03:46 Yes, that's right. 03:47 Tell us a little bit about CORE. 03:49 So CORE is basically a nine-month discipleship and 03:51 evangelism training program that's giving young people kind 03:54 of a strong foundational core experience with Jesus for 03:57 themselves. It's kind of a conversion and retention program 04:00 teaching young people how to see themselves and God is a healthy 04:03 light through the lens of the 1888 message. And then we have a 04:07 second semester version of our program called Track Two for a 04:10 more mature age demographic like 21 and over. And so um... 04:13 So I'd have to be in the second program. 04:15 That's right. So there's activities 04:17 for everyone but our burden is to disciple people and give 04:20 them the message of the everlasting gospel and Christ 04:22 our righteousness and to empower them to share that with other 04:25 people...(indistinct) 04:26 Welcome back. We're going to get deep into the 1888 message today 04:32 and why it is so relevant for all of us but first, we know you 04:39 love music. Who's going to do our music today? 04:41 Well it's going to be a trumpet solo, a trumpet solo. 'Tis So 04:46 Sweet Melody by Carl Dorve. 05:04 ♪ ♪ Trumpet and Piano 05:53 ♪ ♪ Piano alone 06:20 ♪ ♪ Trumpet Variation and Piano 07:09 ♪ ♪ Trumpet Variation and Piano Variation 08:55 That was just absolutely amazing and I'm sorry that I don't know 08:59 who was accompanying him but anyway thank you for both the 09:04 piano and the trumpet. That was fantastic... 09:08 It was beautiful. Okay if you're just joining us our special 09:10 guests are Dr. Robert Hunsaker, Dr. Brian Schwartz and 09:15 Dee Casper. And they are here today because they are with the 09:22 1888 Message Study Committee and we're here to talk about 09:31 something really important. First of all, why is the message 09:36 that came forth from much study in the Adventist movement in 09:43 1888, why is that so important? 09:46 That's a great question Shelley. I think the thing to remember is 09:49 God's always taking opportunity to communicate to His people. 09:52 Throughout salvation history, throughout Adventist history, 09:55 God has picked out individuals to communicate to us to help us 09:58 advance as a corporate church and as individuals. So in 1888, 10:03 a very significant communication we could say came from God to 10:06 our church. It involved a lot of really important points but it 10:10 was identified at that time by those who were there as the 10:13 beginning of the latter rain and the loud cry of the third angel. 10:16 (Amen) So that tells us we had this unique opportunity, this 10:20 unique privilege of beginning to experience the outpouring of the 10:23 Holy Spirit in this message of Christ's righteousness and 10:26 uplifting Him in a way that we hadn't appreciated in our 10:30 history for a significant period of time. So we always need to 10:33 remember that this is that beginning of the latter rain 10:35 and God has much, much more for us. But that was the 10:38 beginning of it. 10:39 And you know of we don't understand what God showed those 10:45 who began the 1888 message, we are never going to have 10:51 assurance of salvation, ever. And it's something that when we 10:57 talk about righteousness by faith Dee what do you think 11:03 is...Some people are reluctant to accept it. Why do you 11:06 think so? 11:08 I think in our human flesh our tendency is to own our 11:12 experiences. We want to get ourselves out of the problems 11:14 that we've made. There's still sabotage. We don't feel that 11:17 we're good enough or worthy enough or I've got to do these 11:20 things to get myself out of this mess. You know the immediate 11:23 response in Adam and Eve in the midst of their conflict when 11:25 they fell was to fix their problem, to have the fig leaves 11:29 and many of our approaches at righteousness are the same. 11:31 It's a fig leaf solution. But the true solution that God gave 11:34 in the garden was the death of someone else covering their 11:38 shame and nakedness and providing righteousness for them 11:41 And so I think that's the main point. 11:43 Amen. You know I think that what...I grew up in a New 11:48 Testament church. We didn't talk about grace. I knew about Jesus 11:53 Christ. But we didn't talk about grace, we didn't talk about 11:57 righteousness by faith. And as I began to study and I studied my 12:01 way out of that church into a church all they talked about was 12:07 grace, but they made it sound like grace was a license to sin. 12:11 And I knew that didn't line up with the scriptures. So as I was 12:16 studying I believe in righteousness by faith 12:18 but I came to 1 John 3:7 that said, Only he who practices 12:26 righteousness is righteous. Wait a minute, we're made 12:29 righteous by faith but that righteousness changes our 12:35 experience so that we walk in obedience. Talk about the 12:37 message. 12:39 I think one of the critical points of the 1888 message is 12:40 that it was meant to move us from a sense of obedience from 12:44 obligation merely; I'm obligated to do this, to a sense of loving 12:48 God's character and wanting to emulate for those around us. So 12:53 one of my favorite authors says those who keep the commandments 12:55 of God from a sense of obligation merely because we're 12:59 required to do so do not obey. So the 1888 message was meant 13:03 to create in our hearts a love for Jesus that produces 13:06 obedience. It produces following Him, not because we have to but 13:09 because we love Him, we love His character, we love His law and 13:12 we see that's the best way for all of us to live. So it's a 13:15 change in motivation. No more am I concerned about protecting my 13:20 own salvation, getting to heaven myself. Now I'm concerned about 13:23 Christ's righteousness, uplifting Him, His character and 13:25 that Jesus receives His reward before and above I receive my 13:28 reward. It's His reward that I care about, not mine. 13:33 Amen. So I think you've got a picture of the 1888 committee. 13:38 Do you want to share that? 13:39 This is a picture in our history This is the event in October/ 13:43 November of 1888. We can put that graphic up on the...This is 13:46 just again...Most people thought this was another just general 13:49 business meeting conference. But this is where the Lord 13:52 communicated to us this very, very special message of the 13:54 righteousness of Christ and it was meant to uplift the Savior, 13:57 Ellen White tells us, in a unique and pivotal way that we 14:01 hadn't experienced before. And that appreciation, that love for 14:05 what God was doing for us would be manifest in obedience to all 14:07 the commandments of God (Amen) not from a sense of obligation 14:10 but a sense of love and appreciation, a change in 14:13 motivation. 14:14 And this is something that I love about you guys when you all 14:16 get together for business meetings you do more studying 14:19 than you do business don't you. (That's right) So what are some 14:23 of the unique points, Brian, of the 1888 message. 14:28 So for me personally, the things that I resonated with especially 14:34 is the aspect that God is pursuing us. I grew up feeling 14:40 like I first of all had to get my life in order before He could 14:44 possible accept me. But I realized eventually that that 14:47 was a hopeless endeavor. But God is pursuing us and He will 14:51 pursue us to the very end, He will never let us go The story 14:55 of good shepherd who leaves the 99 and goes out into the night 14:58 to pursue His lost sheep That is very unique. And another aspect 15:05 that I think we've already touched on but the messengers 15:08 Jones, Waggoner, and Ellen White really brought 15:12 together the cleansing of the sanctuary with the message 15:14 of righteousness by faith. 15:16 They saw that this would produce a people that do keep 15:19 the commandments of God, that do have real righteousness, the 15:23 righteousness of Christ by faith And another aspect that really 15:26 resonates is the faith of Jesus. Anytime we shift the focus to 15:32 what we have to do, if I'm looking at my faith to produce 15:35 righteousness that's a weak and untested faith. But the faith of 15:40 Jesus has never failed. The faith of Jesus has what stood 15:43 every test and it's come through successful and He has conquered 15:47 sin in the flesh, the very same flesh that we have He has 15:51 already encountered and He conquered this flesh and He can 15:55 do the same thing in my life and each of our lives. 15:58 Now I used to read Philippians 2:12 that says, Work out your 16:02 own salvation with fear and trembling. Boy, I did. My knees 16:05 would be knocking. I'd just be trying so hard to be this 16:09 perfect little girl and I remember once I walked away from 16:12 God. I told Him, I can't be what you want me to be. There's no 16:15 use trying. And He chased me down with His love. But I'll 16:20 never forget, I'm reading Philippians 2:12. There were no 16:25 verses, there were no chapters. You can't separate Philippians 16:28 2:12 from Philippians 2:13. Work out your own salvation but not 16:34 in your own strength...For it is God who works in you to will and 16:39 to do His good pleasure. (That's right) I think that...So tell us 16:43 a little about Jones and Waggoner. Who were they? Tell us 16:48 about this message. 16:49 So E.J. Waggoner was an individual whose dad had been an 16:53 Adventist pastor and he'd grown up sort of I guess you could say 16:56 nominal Adventist. But he had a conversion experience during a 17:01 meeting in 1882 where the speaker was speaking and he had 17:05 a vision of Christ's crucified for him. Something 17:08 unique he'd never 17:09 had before. And he said from that moment on I determined that 17:12 whether I was studying the Bible or I was doing evangelism, 17:15 whatever I was doing, I wanted Christ and Him crucified to be 17:17 the center of my ministry. (Amen!) A.T. Jones was a convert 17:21 He'd been in the Army. He was a super high student of history 17:24 and he came in the 1880s to the Adventist church became an 17:29 active minister and God selected these two young men as they were 17:33 the responsive ones, the ones that were studying and willing 17:35 to begin this latter rain message to our church. 17:39 One of the emphases of the 1888 message though was an 17:43 understanding of what God has done for us before we ever 17:45 believe or acknowledge Him. For example: In John chapter four we 17:50 have the story of the woman at the well. And she goes back and 17:53 tells other people in the village and then they say, Now 17:56 we believe, not just because of you, but we believe because of 17:59 we've seen that Jesus is the Christ, the Savior of the whole 18:03 world. So they saw that even before they'd responded, Jesus 18:07 was already their Savior. In 1 Timothy 4:10 it says God is 18:11 the Savior not just of the believer but of the whole world. 18:13 And 2 Corinthians chapter five says God has reconciled not just 18:18 the believer but the whole world to Himself. (Amen) So as we 18:21 appreciate what God has already done for us, before we were 18:25 searching for Him, before we believed in Him, before we even 18:27 heard about Him. God awakens in us a response of appreciation. 18:30 And that's really sort of the foundation of the 1888 message. 18:33 What has God done for you before you ever heard about Him or 18:35 appreciated Him? 18:37 While we were yet sinners, Paul says. 18:38 Yeah, amen, exactly. 18:39 He demonstrated His love by sending excellence. 18:43 One thing about Jones and Waggoner I really like, because 18:45 it was actually a blended ministry. Wagonner was a 18:49 physician. Jones was a pastor. And so we had the two working 18:52 together in ministry fully engaged. And I really like what 18:56 Bob just said, that the emphasis of this message is that God is 19:00 pursuing us. Everything we do is in response to Him. And so 19:05 whether we love Him because He first loved us. That's the 19:09 goodness of God that is drawing us and leading us to repentance. 19:12 Um, He is the Savior of the whole world but because of that 19:17 fact I can experience salvation. He has justified me but I 19:22 experience justification in a response, justification by faith 19:25 in response to what He has already done. I have faith 19:29 because it's just responding to the faith He's already had in me 19:32 (Amen!) All of those are gospel aspects that make God the 19:37 initiator of our salvation and it just frees me to respond 19:41 instead of feeling like, Oh I'm not good enough, or I have to 19:43 crank up my willpower so that I can be good enough to meet the 19:48 law or to meet the standard. Totally different emphasis that 19:51 gives me peace and assurance. 19:53 I think Dee hit on it. You know, I grew up in a performance-based 20:00 religion. And I felt like I had to be such a good little girl 20:05 and I was a Sunday School teacher and I went off to 20:10 college, they called me Miss Goody Two Shoes. But I could 20:14 never be good enough. And if that's what you think God's plan 20:20 of salvation is, it's very discouraging. Very discouraging 20:25 isn't it? 20:26 Futility is kind of the word that comes to mind. And I've 20:29 seen this with many of our young people. I've been to like 35 of 20:31 our academies and many of them, they find themselves, they know 20:34 what the standard is. They know what they need to be at the end 20:37 of the assembly line. And they look at where they currently are 20:40 with their best attempts at trying to get there and they 20:43 realize that you know if God's just going to ask things of me 20:46 that He knows I can't do, why follow him. Kind of what 20:49 your experience which you alluded to. And so they just 20:51 either, I'm not going to be good enough, I'm a loser, I might as 20:54 well, quit. Or, God is unreasonable. And what I found 20:58 that this message does for that demographic is it helps them to 21:00 recognize that...young people don't mind having a standard, 21:03 they don't mind having accountability and so forth. 21:06 What they struggle with is the fact that it doesn't make sense. 21:09 You're saying I need to be something and there's no clear 21:12 path to success. What I found is in the 1888 message, there's a 21:16 clear path to success that God declares you righteous while 21:21 He's making you righteous. (Amen!) He's doing this amazing 21:23 transformative work of standing in your stead and transforming 21:27 you. And most of our young people don't know that and I've 21:30 even found that many of our adults don't fully understand 21:33 these principles. They kind of wrestle with that same tension 21:35 inside as well of knowing what I should be then, but I'm not 21:39 that now, so where do we stand? And this message brings this 21:44 perfect balance of acceptance and accountability. And this was 21:49 kind of a big point also with the 1888 message was the kind of 21:51 union of the law and the gospel. They're not at war with one 21:55 another. They bring this perfect whole of showing us what the 21:58 standard is. Ellen White has a statement in The Faith I Live By 22:01 p.111. She says: What is justification by faith? It's the 22:05 work of God in laying the glory of man in the dust and doing for 22:09 man that which he does not in his power to do for himself. And 22:13 when men see their nothingness they're prepared to be clothed 22:16 with the righteousness of Christ And so I think when the message 22:19 is done right you recognize what you don't bring to the table but 22:22 you also recognize that God longs to supply for that need 22:26 and to make you into what He longs for you to be. 22:28 Amen. And you know you think about clear back to Abraham the 22:32 father of us all, when God told Abraham follow me, Abraham 22:39 believed God and the Bible says God credited it to him as 22:45 righteousness. Well then God is constantly having these 22:49 encounters with Abraham and when God actually has this vision, 22:57 when He puts Abraham in a deep sleep it's still all we've heard 23:02 of is righteousness by faith, righteousness by faith, and then 23:06 suddenly God comes back and the third time he reiterates it He 23:12 talks about obedience and the reason this covenant was... 23:17 I mean He knew. Abraham was walking in obedience because He 23:22 loved God, because he saw Jesus' day, he knew what was going to 23:26 happen. But when God brought Abraham to that point where now 23:33 He's going to renew the covenant with Isaac, what did He say? 23:37 I'm renewing this covenant with you because your father obeyed 23:42 all of my commandments. Wait! He was made righteous by faith. 23:47 But he obeyed. Can I tell you real quickly, I don't mean to do 23:52 all the talking. Exodus 31:13 of all things. As I was studying 23:57 out a couple of years before I became an Adventist, I was 24:02 studying the sanctuary and I came to understand Whew! the 24:06 commandments are eternal, the 10 commandments and I got to 24:11 Exodus 31:13 because the only commandment I wasn't keeping was 24:15 the Sabbath. When I got to Exodus 31:13 where God...I knew 24:21 the Sabbath was a memorial. I mean I was studying, understood 24:24 it as a memorial of creation, a memorial of redemption but it 24:29 was when God said this is a sign that I am the one who sanctifies 24:34 you. Do you know out of pride I think, we all try to sanctify 24:41 ourself. Only God can sanctify you. And only God can set you 24:47 apart and empower you. So I say that even grace is by obedience. 24:52 So let's look at how did Ellen White accept this message, this 24:58 1888 message? You've got a beautiful quote. 25:02 Yeah. Her endorsements are literally in the hundreds. So we 25:06 don't have time for all those obviously but here's one we can 25:08 read here that's probably one of the most familiar where she 25:10 talks about the Lord in 1888 sent us, as she describes it, 25:14 a most precious message. 25:16 She doesn't use that for any other time in Adventist history 25:19 but she says this message was the most precious message. 25:21 Let's read that. 25:23 The Lord in His great mercy sent [us] a most precious message to 25:27 His people through Elders Waggoner and Jones. Now she's 25:30 going to get to the message. What was it about, what was the 25:32 content of it? This message was to bring more prominently before 25:36 not just the Adventist church but the whole world, the 25:39 uplifted Saviour, the sacrifice for the sins of the, again not 25:43 just the Adventists, not just for believers but the sacrifice 25:46 for the sins of the whole world. So Jesus on the cross didn't 25:49 just pay the sins for the believers but for the sins of 25:52 the whole world. So when we do evangelism, when you do 25:55 evangelism at CORE, we interact with our neighbors, 25:57 we're not telling 25:58 them, if you do this, then God will do this for you. We're 26:02 telling them God has already done something incredible for 26:04 you. In fact, you're living today based on the sacrifice of 26:07 Christ. So now all you're doing is responding with gratitude and 26:10 appreciation for what God has already done for you, not a 26:13 grasping for personal security that you don't currently have. 26:15 (Oh man) I think there's a huge difference there. 26:17 Multiple voices...that quote. 26:20 It presented justification through faith in the Surety; 26:23 meaning Jesus. This is what you were referring to. 26:26 Now let's stop there. What is justification? 26:29 It's the setting right or the changing of the heart of the 26:32 individual from self-interest to other-centeredness. 26:35 Yeah...I mean what he does, justification by faith, it's 26:40 that God as our judge looks down and He says, okay, He's paid the 26:44 penalty so He covers our sin and we are legally justified before 26:51 Him. And you know when it says that... (cleaned) cleaned. 26:56 He changes our heart, exactly. 26:57 He changes our heart and we're free from the penalty of sin. 27:00 But when she talks about the surety, that's one of my 27:03 favorite verses. Hebrews 7:22 That Christ is the surety, the 27:10 guarantor of the covenant. You know what, all of God's promises 27:15 He's the guarantor from God to us all of God's promises are yes 27:18 and amen in Christ Jesus. But He's also the surety from us to 27:25 God because He's working in us to will and to do His good 27:28 pleasure. Okay, keep going. 27:29 it invited the people to receive the righteousness of Christ, 27:34 and then we might say what's the tangible revelation of that 27:39 righteousness?...which is made manifest in obedience to all the 27:41 commandments of God. And that was what Dee's point was I think 27:44 a second ago. So there's a production in our life not of a 27:48 grasping again for personal security but an appreciation of 27:51 what God has already done for us and our response. Not a 27:54 desire for reward, not a fear of punishment but an appreciation 27:57 for the goodness of God and His love for me that produces I 28:01 don't want to say automatically but almost automatically a life 28:04 of obedience. 28:05 It did, it did. 28:08 You know if you have the opportunity to live long enough 28:10 kind of somewhat being involved just enough to think that you're 28:17 okay, if you have the opportunity to live long 28:20 enough then you get to live back to see the things that kind of 28:23 happened. Why did that happen? I didn't deserve that. So He's 28:28 always been there, He's always been working it's just that we 28:33 just didn't connect those dots. 28:35 Multiple voices. Yeah, that's right, exactly... 28:37 Even before we became Christians or Adventists or whatever we 28:39 could have been an atheist but God was working, God was working 28:43 He was pursuing us the whole time. 28:45 Praise the Lord. Every single person on this planet He's 28:48 pursuing full throttle 100 percent with His love. (Amen) 28:51 When we believe it's just our awareness of that fact. We 28:54 become aware of it. It doesn't activate anything in God, it's 28:57 just our response and appreciation to Him. 29:00 I've been saved you know rather He saved me. 29:03 Oh, He was my Savior. Now I just recognize it. 29:06 And so she closes the quote by kind of showing some of the 29:10 historical context of why it was so needed. And so the very last 29:14 part of the quote it says: Many have lost sight of Jesus. They 29:17 needed to have their eyes directed to His divine person, 29:21 His merits, and His changeless love for the human family... 29:25 And so the purpose of the 1888 message was to show the 29:28 sufficiency of Jesus and the insufficiency of human attempts. 29:32 And to help us understand this is part of the Laodicean message 29:36 She would also say later that the Laodicean message isn't just 29:39 that you're a sleepy Christian or that you're lax in lifestyle. 29:42 You're not who you think you are at every aspect of your being. 29:45 And the call to the Laodicean church was you think you think 29:49 that you have everything but you really have nothing and your 29:52 answer's found in my provision, my white raiment, gold tried in 29:56 the fire, a faith that works by love, we're told later in 30:00 Galatians and then lastly the eye salve, the spiritual 30:02 discernment to recognize our true condition. So the 1888 30:05 message was also meant to bring before us an understanding of 30:09 our insufficiency. Not to put us in the pit of despondency but to 30:12 help us recognize that you desperately need a righteousness 30:16 that you cannot create. But that righteousness is freely 30:19 available to you in Christ. So it brings out kind of a theme of 30:24 Romans 5 that you don't just need the death of Jesus. You 30:27 also need the life of Jesus. We are reconciled by His death 30:31 but we're saved by His life. Romans 5 and verse 10. 30:35 And so that's another aspect of this message that was meant to 30:37 be brought before the people. 30:38 And it is a message that lifts up Jesus, because he is our all 30:44 in all. 30:45 Let me ask, take two minutes. Two minutes. What were the 30:50 "the Adventists" thinking before then? 30:53 That's a good point J.D. So Ellen White gives a lot of 30:58 sort of quotes about where at. One of the things she says, 31:02 We've preached the law, the law, the law, till we're as dry as 31:04 the hills of Gilboa. She says we've emphasized the 31:07 commandments of God but the faith of Jesus had been 31:11 "strangely neglected." The faith of Jesus is a metaphor in a 31:14 sense for righteousness by faith We'd strangely neglected that. 31:17 So we were sort of in this position where we were using 31:20 argumentative discourses. So we were theologically going into 31:27 towns and debating the local Baptist or Presbyterian whatever 31:30 minister to show them that they were wrong and we were right 31:33 doctrinally. But what that produced in us was an 31:37 appreciation for true facts but not the truth as it is in Jesus. 31:41 We can have the truth, but not have the truth as it is in Jesus 31:45 And the 1888 message was to reframe truth in a raw sense 31:50 to the truth as it is in Jesus. So taking the Sabbath from 31:54 obligation to keep the right day to a rejoicing experience in 31:58 Jesus. So that's the truth and the truth as it is in Jesus. 32:00 So we were sort of in that mold and God said I need to send 32:03 these people a most precious message about Jesus to awaken 32:06 in their hearts a love and appreciation for me. That's 32:09 fundamentally what God was trying to do for us and prepare 32:10 us as the rest of that quote was saying for the second coming. 32:13 Don't forget, in our history at this time, there was a Sunday 32:17 bill in front of the congress. So God's saying here's a Sunday 32:21 bill before congress. I need to prepare my people to meet this 32:24 event and bring in the second coming. That was possible in 32:27 1880s and 1890s. 32:29 So the world was ripe for the second coming but God's people 32:31 were not yet prepared. 32:33 Thanks, Brian. I think that's such a critical point because 32:36 that helps us frame this 1888 message in terms of the whole 32:40 great controversy and what God was trying to do at that era. 32:42 So let's go back to that quote and show Ellen White will frame 32:44 for us what the 1888 message was accomplishing or meant to 32:47 accomplish in that era. So she said: 32:50 This is the message that God commanded to be given to the 32:53 world. This is a reference to Matthew 24:14 that this gospel 32:56 of the kingdom is to be preached in all the world, then the end 32:58 shall come. So she's identifying that Matthew 24:14 text with 33:02 the 1888 message of Jones and Waggoner. 33:04 So this is work of evangelism (exactly) to tell about 33:08 righteousness of Christ. 33:10 Yes, critical point yes. So it goes on there then. 33:12 It says: It is the third angel's message. So Jones and Waggoner's 33:15 1888 message is the third angel's which is to be 33:18 proclaimed with a loud voice... That's a reference to the angel 33:22 of Revelation 18, the fourth angel, which we don't talk about 33:25 as much. And another critical point it is...attended with the 33:28 outpouring of His Spirit in a large measure...which we'd also 33:31 call the latter rain. So God's saying through his prophet, 33:35 saying listen this is the message, give it to the world. 33:37 This is the third angel's message it's the fourth angel's 33:40 message it's the beginning of the latter rain. And so that 33:43 should call our attention saying this is significant. I need to 33:46 pay attention to this, I need to process this, I need to study 33:48 this so I can share it. 33:50 For some of our viewers that may not know what latter rain is: 33:56 The outpouring Holy Spirit is referred to as the early rain 34:00 and the latter rain, the second one. And you know when we become 34:04 Christians what happens? We are born again, we are filled with 34:08 the Holy Spirit but then what happens is some people begin to 34:14 rely on themselves again. And you know all false religions 34:22 are religions of work but what happens...Paul told the 34:29 Galatians when they started getting away from the true 34:31 gospel he said, You foolish Galatians, this is Galatians 3:3 34:36 Having begun in the Spirit are you now trying to perfect it in 34:41 the flesh? Oh Lord, deliver us from trying to perfect it in the 34:45 flesh. But then he says, those of you who are trying to do this 34:49 to work through the law, he's referring to the old covenant 34:54 law at that point, not the 10 commandments. Even if you're 34:57 trying to keep the commandments in your own strength, he says 34:59 you become estranged from Christ But we do...You made a comment 35:06 during the song, I think that you said we all have a little subtle 35:11 legalism. What do you mean? 35:13 Yeah, as a human being, since the fall of Adam and Eve, we are 35:17 really born self-centered. I would equate legalism as wanting 35:22 to do my own will as opposed to doing God's will. And so you 35:27 mentioned the covenants but I can work out my own salvation 35:30 trying to do the things that satisfy me just like trying to 35:35 keep God's law, trying to keep the Sabbath, trying to pay a 35:39 faithful tithe. If I'm doing those who that I can earn God's 35:44 favor, if I can make myself feel good toward God that is a form 35:48 of legalism. (Amen) If I'm doing those because I have appreciated 35:51 what He has already done for me and I want to spend time with 35:55 Jesus the Sabbath is going to become a delight. And we've 35:59 presented the Sabbath as Seventh day Adventists often as well not 36:03 one single thing is going to change, it's God's law and it's 36:06 still in effect so you have to keep it. But the Sabbath as the 36:10 1888 messengers presented it, it becomes the actual sign of 36:14 righteousness by faith. The sign of legalism is Sunday worship. 36:19 Keeping man's law as opposed to appreciating God's law. And so 36:26 all of us, there's a battle with self so there's a battle to root 36:29 out the legalism that we have and to rely purely upon Christ 36:33 and His righteousness. That's what this is all about. 36:36 And if as Romans 8 Paul said that if God gave us His Son how 36:42 much more will He do all things for us. So Dee how did the 36:46 1888...You grew up, we don't have time to go into your whole 36:51 story but tell us how the 1888 message impacted your heart when 36:56 you learned it. 36:57 So it was the love of God that won me before I knew the 37:00 Adventist message and then I stumbled across 3ABN some years 37:04 and was hearing things I knew were true but I was wondering 37:08 it wasn't aired on 3ABN, it wasn't showing that. I was just 37:11 trying to find my introduction to the Adventist message and 37:13 church and the way that I was hearing. I was trying to make 37:18 sense of what you're saying is true but where's the thing that 37:19 won me. And there were a few instances in my life where I 37:22 encountered threads of this message and I realized that I 37:26 cannot only embrace what I found to be true but also embrace the 37:31 fact that there's a God in heaven who is head over heels in 37:33 love with me pursuing (Amen) And that perfect union 37:35 of truth and God's 37:37 true character of love, when I saw those I realized that my 37:42 life can never look the same and I committed my life to the fact 37:44 that I'm never going to commit the sin of not preaching that 37:47 message ever again. I knew that this had to define anything else 37:50 I would share for the rest of my ministry. 37:53 Joe Waggoner's experience. 37:54 Exactly it was very much like that you know in a sense of I 37:58 never felt that God was against me. I was just trying to figure 38:00 out how to put the experiential understanding of God's love for 38:05 me with the theological structure of Adventism. 38:07 And when those two came together it was just an explosion that 38:10 made perfect sense. (Amen) 38:11 And you know, as you said Brian when Jesus said if you love me 38:17 keep my commandments. What he's saying is, because you love me 38:21 you're going to walk...you know you're going to walk with God 38:27 like Enoch walked with God. Like Moses walked with God. 38:30 He will write His law on our hearts. 38:32 We will delight to do the will of God. So how did it impact you 38:39 when you really started studying this message? 38:41 Well I grew up a fourth generation Seventh-day Adventist 38:45 but steeped in the idea that I still had to do something, 38:49 enough to earn God's favor. And growing up on the conservative 38:54 side, going to a conservative academy. I got involved with... 38:57 When I went to academy, to boarding school academy, I said 39:02 all right, Lord, this is the year I'm going to finally be perfect. 39:04 I became a Sabbath School teacher, I got involved with 39:08 studies. And it just took a few months to realize this is never 39:12 going to happen. I do not have what it takes. So while a 39:16 student at Andrews I actually left in my mind for about a year 39:20 being an Adventist. Told my parents, I don't believe this 39:24 any more. It wasn't that I gave up on the doctrines. I still was 39:27 a vegetarian, I still was living the lifestyle but I just 39:30 believed that deep inside I didn't have what it took, I 39:34 didn't have as much will power as you guys did and also I was 39:37 starting to see that there were a whole lot of other Adventists 39:40 that didn't have the will power and they were going through the 39:42 motions and I'm just not somebody who can do that. I'm 39:44 either all in or all out. But in the very end of my first year 39:50 in medical school God...Really I had what was a personal vision 39:54 to me. I could see Jesus coming in the clouds and people saying 39:57 praise the Lord Jesus is coming. And I woke up inside of my bed 40:01 and I could still see this vision and I realized that I was 40:05 lost. I knelt down right then and there and said all right 40:07 Lord, I am going to begin studying the Bible. I'm going 40:10 begin reading and surprisingly I began reading Christ's Object 40:13 Lessons but I also told Him but I'm not going to become a 40:16 Seventh-day Adventist. And so it began about a year and a half 40:20 struggle to study everything. I studied with Mormons and 40:23 Nazarene's and Jehovah's Witnesses and little by little 40:27 realized that I knew all the doctrines but I didn't have the 40:31 appreciation that Dee mentioned and that was where I first heard 40:34 this message. It was a message about agape. That just clicked 40:38 in my mind...God is pursuing me. The cross shows us that Jesus 40:41 me more that He even loves Himself. In fact, He'd even 40:45 rather not exist than for me to be lost. That's the same 40:50 experience that once you couple the doctrines that we have with 40:52 the message of Christ that's the only thing that has kept me 40:56 engaged in Adventism. 40:58 You know when you put the infinity lens as so many camera 41:04 buffs do you get the infinity focus. Did you know God's plan 41:08 has always been salvation by grace and righteousness by faith 41:12 Even as you go through...and I want to prove something to you. 41:15 Here, in Hebrews, this is New Testament, this is the faith 41:22 chapter, Hebrews 11:7 says: By faith Noah being divinely warned 41:28 of things not yet seen moved with Godly fear, so he's walking 41:32 in obedience, prepared an ark for the saving of his household. 41:35 And he's preaching for 120 years But because he accepted God's 41:41 message it say that his actions he condemned the world. Get this 41:47 He became the heir of righteousness which is 41:52 according to faith. Noah was righteous by faith. (I know) 41:57 I love that chapter because even Samson's in that chapter. Samson 42:02 who loved failure after failure after failure but ultimately he 42:06 conquered by faith and when God writes the history that's 42:09 written in the faith. 42:10 You know what, I love what James Rafferty says. He says 42:14 Hebrews 11 is a picture of what God thinks of us after the 42:19 investigative judgment. 42:23 So how did it impact you? 42:25 Well I think I was a member of one of God's toughest 42:27 demographic groups to reach. So I was an Adventist and I think 42:32 you'd probably describe me as a cultural Adventist. I still went 42:35 to church and I wasn't way out there taking drugs or whatever. 42:39 But I was a basic cultural Adventist (a Laodicean). I was 42:44 one of God's toughest demographic groups. I think I'd 42:46 be better off as an atheist or someone _. My need would 42:47 be obvious. But my mom invited me to a series of meetings. 42:52 And I was like oh they're just meetings, I don't want to go. 42:55 I'd upset my mom. And I went and I heard some presentations on 42:59 the character and the goodness of God, number one. And number 43:02 two something about our history where people were saying you 43:04 know what, Jesus could have come in our past. He could have come 43:07 in our past but we weren't ready we weren't willing. I'd never 43:11 heard that before. I'd always heard Jesus is coming soon but 43:13 it's in the future. But he was saying Jesus could have come 43:16 and between the beauty of God's character and the understanding 43:20 of our history, it put together why we're still here. And I said 43:21 you know I need to keep studying this why we're still here. And I 43:24 said you know I need to keep studying this and understand 43:26 this so I can share that so we don't keep having a delay in 43:28 Christ coming back. Time at it to be active and studying and 43:32 thinking and understanding so we can move this second coming as 43:35 fast as possible. 43:36 And we can have assurance of salvation; 1 John 5:10-13 says 43:40 that he who has Jesus has salvation, he who does not 43:46 does not. But we don't want to just tease you with all of this. 43:51 We want to tell you where you can get all these wonderful 43:56 resources that are on the internet. So let's talk about... 44:00 I don't know if you brought a video graphic of this but tell 44:05 us about your website because J.D. went to your website last 44:09 night. He was super impressed. 44:12 Well our name is the 1888 Message Study Committee 44:17 (1880) 1888 Message Study Committee. So this defines 44:19 what our ministry is. It takes study ministry and a propagation 44:22 sharing ministry. So on our website is a lot of 44:25 material by A.T. Jones 44:26 and E.J. Waggoner, Ellen White's endorsements and clarifications 44:30 of their messages and study materials from others that have 44:34 synthesized these messages into sort of...because they were 44:36 voluminous authors so it's needed to synthesize down and 44:39 boil down what they were saying at incredible points to 44:43 understand those. So our website has a lot of Jones and 44:45 Waggoner's material, a lot of material from others who have 44:48 studied this out both in terms of history and the message. We 44:50 have seminars that we sponsor on weekends, seminars. We have a 44:54 national conference. This year we're at Southern Adventist 44:57 University, July 20-23. So we'd love to have anybody come join 45:01 us to study the 1888 message July 20-13 at Southern Adventist 45:05 University. 45:07 Wonderful, wonderful. 45:08 And then the application of that message is programs like CORE 45:11 where people take...okay, here's the message, here's the 45:15 motivation we all want to experience. Now let's share that 45:17 along with the others. 45:19 Yeah, and so that's what we're doing is as a school, we're just 45:23 kind of training young people and adults alike to kind of 45:26 better understand this message. And the beautiful thing is kind 45:29 of our tag line is it's a life transforming experience. It's 45:32 not just a place where you learn information. It's actually 45:35 changing your life. I've got a student who grew up in a kind of 45:37 really conservative church background, really wholesome kid 45:40 but just never thought he would be good enough, just never 45:42 really understood it. And as he was reading through...we went 45:45 through the three angels' messages with Christ at the 45:47 center in one of our classes and then he went through Jones and 45:51 Waggoner's book, Lessons on Faith, and then we went through 45:53 A.T. Jones's 1893 General Conference sermons and as he 45:57 read those for the first time in his life he finally got it. God 46:00 actually loves me, that Christ's righteousness stands in my stead 46:05 and I can have assurance now. And so we're training people to 46:08 take this message and use it in active evangelism, which is who 46:13 W.W. Prescott, someone we haven't mentioned yet was 46:14 championing in Ellen White's day He was someone who was an 46:17 opposer of the message initially and then became some who kind of 46:21 not redefined but certainly came up with a different way of doing 46:26 evangelism. Instead of just giving the facts, he would show 46:29 Jesus at the heart of every teaching and Ellen White gave a 46:31 resounding endorsement to that model. The Armadale sermons that 46:35 he preached. There were kind of the most famous ones. You need 46:38 to search A-r-m-a-d-a-l-e, Armadale sermons, W.W. Prescott 46:41 You can find a PDF for free, the 1888 (two voices). They have it 46:46 at their store as well. The way he did evangelism is the way 46:49 that we do evangelism and it works. It not only revives our 46:53 members but it also inspires and wins the souls of people who 46:56 don't know this message. And so it's incredibly powerful as an 47:00 in reach and an out reach tool. It works. 47:03 Amen. You know when we were talking about the early rain and 47:06 the latter rain...I'll tell the story. I've shared it before but 47:10 it's worth telling. The early rain is when we receive the Holy 47:15 Spirit, when we're born again. And we receive the Holy Spirit 47:19 and we are empowered. When God said my grace is sufficient for 47:25 you, my strength is made perfect in your weakness, He empowers us 47:30 He works in us to will and to do I can't even obey except by 47:35 grace. You know I can't even love the Lord my God with all my 47:38 heart, soul, mind, and strength except by grace. Romans 5:5 says 47:44 He pours His love into us and it's by the power of the Holy 47:48 Spirit that I can respond in the kind of love that God wants. 47:55 But here's a quick story. We were in Texas. We'd just moved 48:00 to central Texas. Five year drought. Walking around the farm 48:06 I'm not kidding you there were cracks that are six inches wide 48:10 in that dirt. I mean the ground was as hard as a rock. And all 48:15 the locals were praying for rain I joined my voice to the chorus 48:21 of the locals praying for rain. One night came a thunder 48:28 storm like you would not believe Gully washer is what they called 48:31 it in Texas. And Oh I was so excited. I got up and I looked 48:37 out the window. You couldn't even see two feet out the window 48:40 it was raining so hard. The next morning I got up and went out 48:45 and guess what? The ground was just as hard as it had been. 48:51 It was so hard that that gully washer just [swept away] 48:58 and then the Spirit of the Lord impressed this thought on me. 49:01 So it shall be at the time of the latter rain. Those whose 49:06 hearts had not been softened by the early rain, the latter rain 49:11 come when God pours out His Spirit and you know that's 49:15 what's going to get us ready for these last days. That's why this 49:18 message is so important is because we need to be ready for 49:22 the last days. We need the outpouring of the Holy Spirit 49:25 so that the latter rain can make it through these last days and 49:32 if we don't understand it that we...God made Him who knew no 49:38 sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness 49:42 of God in Christ Jesus. We're going to miss it all. 49:47 Absolutely. (Yeah) We're at a time now when God wants to pour 49:49 out the latter rain just as He did in the 1880s and 90s. This 49:55 is the time to be studying the message. I'm convinced that 49:57 Seventh-day Adventists are called to be giving this message 50:01 to the whole world to prepare them for His very soon second 50:03 coming. 50:04 Amen. Before we go to pray, Dee look in the camera and talk to 50:08 somebody at home that's saying What!? Righteous by faith? 50:12 I'm fully convinced that this is a message that can radically 50:15 change your life. I would encourage you, take the time to 50:18 study it for yourself. There's great resources that have been 50:22 made. Prescott's Armadale sermons give you a great example 50:25 for evangelism. Jones and Waggoner have a book called 50:28 Lessons on Faith and another book called Living by Faith are 50:30 compilations that were put together. Jones has an amazing 50:33 book called The Consecrated Way to Christian Perfection that 50:35 kind of explains the journey and how God makes us righteous. 50:39 Waggoner has another great book called The Everlasting Covenant 50:42 that radically changed my life. There's gorgeous gospel content 50:46 in there. And just do the research. There's another book 50:51 called Return of the Latter Rain Vol. 1 by Ron Duffield that 50:53 gives you the whole historical background of what happened 50:56 leading into the General Conference session in 50:59 Minneapolis and afterward. And what type of revival was 51:01 brought to the church as a result. The latter rain was 51:04 beginning to fall in 1889, 90, 91, 92, 93. God wants to do it 51:09 again. He desperately needs us to see this message, to preach 51:12 this message and to receive it for ourselves. When that happens 51:15 we're going home. (Amen) 51:16 And I guarantee you when it happens your life will be 51:21 changed because it brings joy to your heart when you understand 51:26 God's true plan of salvation. Well we're going to be back in 51:29 just a moment for closing comment but first we know that 51:33 you want to hear how you can get in touch with these wonderful 51:37 people. The 1888 Study Message is just their website. It's how 51:43 you can contact them if you want them to come do a seminar 51:46 Here's the information you need: 51:49 If you would like to contact or know more about 1888 Message 51:53 Study Committee you can do so in the following ways: 51:56 You can write to them at 8784 Valley View Drive, 52:00 Berrien Springs, MI 49103. You can call them at (269)473-1888 52:10 That's (269)473-1888. You can visit their website at 52:18 1888msc.org. That's 1888msc.org. You can also send 52:27 them an email at info@1888msc.org |
Revised 2022-07-25