Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY220022A
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00:04 I want to spend my life
00:10 mending broken people. 00:15 I want to spend my life 00:20 removing pain. 00:26 Lord, let my words 00:31 heal a heart that hurts. 00:36 I want to spend my life 00:42 mending broken people... 00:47 I want to spend my life 00:52 mending broken people. 01:05 Hello and we welcome you to 3ABN Today. 01:09 I'm Shelley Quinn and as you saw in the open 01:12 I'm sitting here all by myself. 01:14 But not for long. I'm actually just introducing 01:18 a program that you're going to find very inspiring 01:23 and instructive, and hosting the program 01:27 will be our Director of Discipleship 01:30 Pastor James Rafferty. 01:32 And his guest is Pastor Steve Wohlberg 01:36 who is the speaker/director for White Horse Media. 01:41 Now if you know anything about Steve Wohlberg 01:44 he is a prolific writer. 01:47 He's written over 30 books. 01:49 And he's here today to talk about his book 01:54 Six six six: The 666 Beast Identified. 02:00 Boy, I tell you: when you look even at the news 02:04 we hear people talking about 666. 02:08 It's only mentioned once in the Bible. 02:11 Let me read that to you. 02:13 And it comes in Revelation - I'll find it - 02:17 chapter 15, and here's what the Bible says. 02:22 "Then I saw another sign in heaven great and marvelous: 02:25 seven angels having the seven last plagues. " 02:29 Gettin' serious! 02:30 "For in them the wrath of God is mingled with fire, 02:35 and those who have the victory over the beast... " 02:38 That's where I want to be. 02:40 "and over his image and over his mark... " 02:45 Victory over the beast, his image, and his mark: 02:48 "and over the number of his name. 02:51 And the number of that name is 666. " 02:57 What is this mysterious 666? 03:00 Well stay tuned for Pastor James Rafferty 03:04 and for Steve Wohlberg. 03:07 Right now we're going to first, go to a song 03:10 with one my favorite singers: Pastor Wintley Phipps. 03:14 He's going to be singing in that booming bass voice 03:19 of his. He has sung for over five presidents 03:23 and this man is just really special. 03:28 His song today is so apropos for this topic. 03:33 It is Coming Again. 03:36 So after Pastor Phipps we'll go on with the interview. 04:16 Why stand ye gazing there 04:21 up into the sky? 04:26 Be not discouraged 04:32 for we have brought good news. 04:39 This same Jesus 04:44 who we do magnify 04:50 soon He will come again 04:56 for all to glorify. 05:03 He is coming again! 05:09 He is coming 05:13 again. 05:17 Son of the Father 05:22 He is coming again. 05:28 On Calvary He claimed my destiny. 05:34 Lord, I humble myself 05:44 to Thee. 05:54 Lord, I want to see Your face. 06:00 Just help me be strong. 06:07 I know You will return; 06:12 I know it won't be long. 06:19 He is coming again! 06:26 He is coming 06:29 again. 06:33 Son of the Father 06:38 He is coming again. 06:44 On Calvary 06:46 He claimed my destiny. 06:49 Lord, I humble myself 07:00 to Thee. 07:05 Lift up the trumpet 07:07 and loud let it ring: 07:10 Jesus is coming again! 07:14 Cheer up, ye pilgrims... 07:17 be joyful and sing: 07:19 Jesus is coming again! 07:24 Coming again, 07:26 coming again, 07:28 Jesus is coming again! 07:32 Coming again, 07:35 coming again, 07:37 Jesus 07:39 is coming 07:41 again! 07:49 Amen and Amen! 07:51 Powerful powerful message there from Bro. Wintley Phipps. 07:54 I love that message and I love that messenger of music. 07:58 So, Steve, we are in the con- text of the book of Revelation 08:03 talking about the number 666. 08:05 Of course, all of it centers around the second coming 08:08 of Jesus Christ. And we recognize that Jesus 08:11 is the center of the book of Revelation. 08:13 Really it is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, 08:15 one that is from Him and of Him. 08:18 And in that book we have this counterfeit system 08:20 that comes in and seeks to undermine 08:23 and put itself in the place of Jesus Christ 08:25 and it's identified with a number. 08:28 Now this number is a pretty well-known number, isn't it? 08:33 There's no question about that, James. 08:35 I think the most famous or infamous number 08:38 in all of history: 666. 08:40 People think about it. When Apple Computer first released 08:44 its first computer and put it on the market 08:46 the price was $666.66. OK! 08:50 And people you know kind of... It raised eyebrows 08:53 and people thought maybe this was a sign 08:55 that computers are bad. 08:56 And people see 666 on subway walls. 09:00 It's in movies... apocalyptic movies. 09:04 People wonder if it's going to be something to do with 09:06 the barcode or Social Security. 09:08 And the list just goes on and on. But it's a very well-known 09:11 number but few people have any clue 09:14 what it's really all about. 09:16 Yeah. I remember when I was a young man 09:18 you know partying and all that kind of stuff 09:21 I knew about the number 666. 09:22 I'd watched a movie about it: The Omen. 09:24 And it was embedded in the skull of a little kid. 09:28 But is this where it comes from? 09:31 Where is this number in the Bible? 09:33 That's really what we want to start out with, don't we? 09:36 Yes, we do. And the primary place 09:39 that it is is in the book of Revelation. 09:42 OK. It's mentioned once in I Kings chapter 10 verse 14 09:46 in connection to the amount of gold that Solomon had. 09:50 But the main verse that most people are familiar with 09:54 or at least those who have studied the Bile 09:56 is in the book of Revelation chapter 13 verse 18. 10:01 And let me just read that to you: 10:04 Verse 18 says: "Here is wisdom: 10:06 let him that has understanding 10:09 let him count the number of the beast 10:12 for it is the number of a man 10:14 and his number is six hundred three score or 60 and 6. " OK. 10:20 Which comes out to 666. 10:22 So here is the mother text: Revelation 13:18. 10:26 So what does that mean? I mean when I think about 10:30 666, OK you mentioned a Bible verse. 10:32 And of course the book of Revelation is built on 10:36 the rest of the Bible. That's where all of the 10:38 information in Revelation comes from. 10:40 It's a distillation if you will of the rest of Scripture. 10:43 We could say that all the books of the Bible begin and end 10:46 in the book of Revelation, right? 10:48 But when we think about this particular verse 10:51 666 in relationship to this man 10:54 which is connected to a beast... 10:55 and we'll get into all of that... how do we? 10:59 What does? What is Revelation actually saying? 11:01 Because you mentioned the Apple computer. 11:03 $666 was the price of this computer. 11:06 And I've heard stories of people 11:09 who... well, I'll just give you my own example. 11:12 You know, when I was purchasing something 11:15 at one time the number actually of the dollar amount 11:19 of my purchase actually came out to $666. 11:23 And the person looked at me kind of like 11:26 "Oh-oh. " And I thought, of course, 11:28 by that time I understood this is a Biblical number 11:31 but I thought: "Ah, you know, no big deal. " 11:33 But people kind of maybe freak out a little bit 11:36 when they think about three sixes in a row. 11:39 Three sixes in a row: is that the point here? 11:43 What is the Bible actually saying? 11:46 Yeah, and you know, James, this is such a big topic 11:49 and we only have so much time today. 11:51 We could really do a 10-part series on this. 11:53 And I've packed so much infor- mation into the 666 book: 11:57 The 666 Beast Identified. 11:59 So I'm just going to kind of distill 12:02 a lot of information in a short time. OK. 12:06 I've got 10 facts about 666 12:11 that we can glean from the book of Revelation. 12:14 And my conviction is in order for us to get on the 12:17 right track on this topic to avoid speculation 12:20 and all kinds of different theories 12:23 is to put all of these different points together. 12:25 And I'll just read them to you really quickly. 12:27 Great! Ten facts about this number. 12:29 Number 1: It's in the Bible. 12:31 Number 2: We need wisdom to understand it. 12:34 Which implies that we CAN have wisdom. 12:36 Number 3: We have to do some counting and calculation. 12:40 It says "Let him that has under- standing count the number. " 12:43 Number 4 is it's the number of the beast 12:46 and we have to look at the whole context of Revelation 13 12:49 to identify that beast correctly. 12:51 OK. Number 5: Also it's the number of a man. 12:54 That's what it says. It's the number of the beast 12:57 and the number of a man. 12:59 And the number is 666 13:02 which is point 6. Many people 13:03 are looking for three sixes in a row. 13:06 A 6 followed by another 6 followed by another 6. 13:09 But the text actually says: "Six hundred sixty and six" 13:14 which is a little bit different. Oh yeah. 13:16 And we'll get to that a little bit more. 13:18 Point number 7: It's also the number of his name. 13:23 It says that in verse 17. 13:25 The number of the name... a specific name. 13:29 Number 8: A name in the book of Revelation is 13:31 often used synonymously with a title. 13:34 Jesus in Revelation 19 comes down on the white horse 13:39 and it says in verse 16 13:41 "He has a name written, and the name is King of kings 13:45 and Lord of lords. " OK. And in verse 13 it also says 13:47 "His name is the Word of God. " 13:49 So His personal name is Jesus 13:52 but in Revelation name is also synonymous 13:56 with title. OK. So: King of kings 13:59 and Lord of lords is really a title. 14:01 Point number 9: 14:03 we must overcome this number whatever it is 14:08 because it says that in Revelation 15 verse 2. 14:11 And Number 10 is that Revelation 13 14:14 connects us with Daniel 7 14:17 and we have to study Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 14:21 together in order to correctly identify the beast: 14:24 the real beast and its man. 14:26 So that's just 10 quick facts. 14:29 And when people speculate and come up with all kinds 14:32 of different interpretations like could it be 14:36 Apple Computer you have to compare that theory 14:39 with all 10 of those Bible points. 14:42 And really those 10 points point us 14:47 in the right direction so we don't go on rabbit trails. 14:51 And all the information that you're sharing right now Steve 14:54 is in the book, right? In the book that you are providing. 14:57 Yes. In the book that you have written, and basically 15:00 we're distilling down all the information 15:03 that has been historically searched out 15:06 concerning this number, this man, and this beast 15:09 in Revelation 13. 15:11 That's right. OK. Exactly. 15:13 And we can test all theories by those ten points. 15:15 If they don't line up with every one of those points, 15:18 we know that it's just myth- ology & fanciful speculation. 15:23 And of course, you know and I know, and this is what 3ABN 15:26 is all about as well as what White Horse Media is all about 15:29 and your ministry is we don't want to go off 15:32 in speculative directions. We want to teach people 15:35 what the Bible says. Amen! And that's really 15:39 the big issue. And there's one more point I want to mention. 15:41 When you look at Revelation 13 as you mentioned 15:44 earlier or alluded to 15:46 Revelation is a battle between the beast and the Lamb. Um-hmm. 15:50 And so the beast and its man and its number is all 15:52 a counterfeit working of the devil 15:57 to lead people away from Jesus Christ. 16:00 Amen! And that's really the heart of the matter. 16:03 We're not just here to expose the beast and the man 16:04 and the number... we're here to lift up Jesus Christ - 16:07 Amen! who is the Truth? And I love that, Steve, 16:10 because when you look at Revelation chapter 13 16:12 the very center of this book directs us to 16:16 the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world. 16:19 And so those who are listen- ing - our viewing audience - 16:22 we really need to remember that Revelation chapter 13 16:26 is not really focusing on the beast. 16:29 It's identifying the beast - definitely - and giving us 16:31 the characteristics, but the whole point of 16:33 Revelation chapter 13 is to direct us back to 16:36 the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world. 16:39 And you have that emphasis in Revelation chapter 13 16:42 because really that is the direction of Scripture 16:45 and the direction of the book of Revelation. 16:48 There's just this aside that we have in many of the chapters 16:51 that warns us about the counterfeit or the undermining 16:55 by the dragon, by the devil of the work of Jesus Christ 16:58 that has been laid from the foundation of the world 17:00 for our salvation. So let's get right into it, Steve. 17:02 How can we... 17:05 how can we identify the beast? 17:07 You've got the mark of the beast, the number of the beast. 17:08 And that's the big... Right. And that's one of the... 17:12 the big issues at the very get-go. 17:14 We need to identify the beast, and in order to do that 17:17 we need to look at the whole chapter of Revelation 13. 17:20 OK. Because the beast is described. Many different clues 17:23 are there... characteristics. 17:25 The dragon gives him his power, his seat, and great authority. 17:28 He rules for a certain amount of time. 17:30 He has a mouth speaking great things. 17:32 He makes war on the saints. 17:33 And when you look at Rev. 13 and look at the characteristics 17:36 of that beast the same characteristics 17:39 are referred to in Daniel chapter 7. 17:42 Those two chapters go together just like a lock and a key. 17:45 Um-hmm. Just like two people. Like me and my wife 17:47 and you and your wife. They fit together perfectly. 17:51 And so when you look at Daniel 7 17:53 you find four beasts. You see a lion, a bear, 17:56 a leopard and a dragon-like beast. 17:58 And Daniel 7:23 tells us 18:01 that the fourth beast is the fourth kingdom upon the earth. 18:03 So those four beasts represent nations. 18:06 And most people who have studied this know 18:09 that those four beasts represent Babylon, Persia, 18:11 Greece, and Rome. 18:13 The rise and fall of these great nations in history. 18:15 And then the fourth beast - the dragon-like creature - 18:18 he has 10 horns and then a little horn comes up. 18:22 And that little horn has a mouth speaking great things. 18:24 It make war on the saints. 18:26 It changes God's law. It does various things. 18:28 And Protestants in the 1500's and 1600's 18:32 during the height of the Reformation... 18:35 There's no secret to this; you can Google this 18:38 and all the facts are there in history. 18:40 They looked at Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome. 18:42 They looked at the 10 horns as the breakdown of the Roman 18:45 Empire, and they saw that little horn that came right out 18:48 of the Roman Empire in western Europe 18:51 and it had a mouth speaking great things, it made war 18:54 on the saints, and they unanimously understood 18:57 that to be a symbol of the papal power. Um-hmm. 18:59 It's not a reference to Roman Catholic people per se 19:04 but to the system of Catholicism centered in the pope. 19:08 And that's what happened. The Roman church grew up 19:10 out of the Roman Empire. It grew up among the 10 horns. 19:13 It grew up right there in Italy. 19:15 And when you compare those verses with Revelation 19:18 it says in Revelation 13:2 that the dragon - which was 19:21 the fourth beast of Daniel 7- 19:24 he would give to this beast his power and his seat 19:29 and great authority. Um-hmm. And that's what happened. 19:31 The rule of the Caesars went down when Rome collapsed 19:35 and the rule of the popes rose up. 19:38 And the dragon of the Roman Empire 19:41 gave its seat of government in Italy 19:43 and its power and its authority 19:45 to the beast which was the Roman Catholic church system. 19:50 And if you look at history, the Catholic system 19:53 is really centered in one man... in a man. 19:56 Um-hmm. And that man is called the pope. 19:58 And that man has become shockingly today 20:02 the most influential religious leader and politician really 20:06 on planet earth. And he's really... Historically 20:09 he's really like a Caesar/pope. 20:11 He continues the authority of the Roman Empire. 20:14 And it's interesting: even Pope Francis has a Twitter 20:17 handle which is pontifex. 20:19 And pontifex, really Pontimus Maximus, 20:22 goes back to the titles of the Caesars. 20:24 And they've inherited those titles. Um-hmm. 20:27 And so the Protestant Reformers when they tried to get people 20:29 back to the Bible and away from the traditions of men 20:34 and the church opposed them 20:36 they put all these pieces together and began to really 20:39 study prophecy and they finally realized 20:41 Wow! that the pope is the representative 20:46 of the system that the book of Revelation 20:49 identifies as the beast. 20:51 And this may be shocking to many people 20:54 but if you Google it that's what Luther believed 20:58 who started the Lutheran church. 20:59 John Wesley, who founded the Methodist church, 21:02 Charles Spurgeon, the great Baptist pastor in London, 21:05 and this was just the dominant view of Protestantism. 21:09 And as they... as the Reformation continued on 21:14 finally they knew who the beast was 21:17 and then they zeroed in on the end of Revelation chapter 13 21:22 and they started pondering this verse that says: 21:25 "Here is wisdom: let him who has understanding 21:27 count the number of the beast 21:30 for it is the number of a man and his number is six hundred 21:34 three score and six. " And eventually in the 1600's 21:41 the application of this verse 21:44 to the papal power and to the pope and to a specific 21:48 name of the pope it surfaced 21:50 and then it became the dominant view 21:53 within the Protestant world 21:56 more than any other interpretation that's ever seen 21:58 the light of day. You know it's really interesting, 22:00 isn't it, Steve, because like I was raised Catholic 22:03 and I remember my mother saying... 22:05 When people asked her if she was Catholic she would say: 22:07 "I am Roman Catholic. " 22:10 Right? 'Cause there are Catholics 22:12 but Roman Catholic connects you specifically 22:15 to the see of Rome, to the papacy, to the pontiff. 22:19 Roman Catholic is what my mom used to tell people that we were 22:22 and I was proud of it. 22:24 And I remember, you know, as you look at your history 22:26 you talk about these Reformers like Martin Luther 22:28 and Zwingli and Hus and Jerome. 22:31 All of them were Catholic, & the evidence was so overwhelming - 22:35 the Biblical evidence - that when they discovered this 22:38 evidence they didn't want to in any way 22:41 sever from the church or start a new organization 22:44 or even be critical of the church 22:46 in tearing it down in any way. 22:48 Their idea was to bring reformation to identify 22:51 because in their minds a lot of the popes were immoral 22:55 and there were a lot of problems that needed to be taken care of 22:57 in the church and they were wanting to take care of those 22:59 problems. BUT, in time, of course, 23:02 we know Biblically that they had to pull themselves away. 23:05 They had to protest; they had to stand up 23:07 against the immorality; against the departure from truth; 23:10 against this Roman system that is a continuation 23:14 like you said of the history of pagan Rome 23:17 which followed Greece which followed Medo-Persia 23:20 which followed Babylon. All of it laid out perfectly 23:23 for us in the books of Daniel and Revelation. 23:25 In fact, recently started a class on Daniel 23:28 and asked the students or said to the students: 23:31 "You know, it'd be really nice 23:33 if studying Daniel chapter 11 " You know, that's the fourth 23:37 repeat and enlarge of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome... 23:40 I said to the students: "It'd be really nice if we had 23:42 a Daniel chapter 13 you know because Daniel stops 23:46 in chapter 12. And you get to the end of Daniel 11 23:49 you've got the king of the north and the king of the south 23:51 and a lot of controver... 23:52 you know misunderstanding or different views on that. 23:55 And I said: "It'd be nice if we had a Daniel chapter 13 23:59 that had another outline of Babylon, Medo-Persia, 24:02 Greece, and Rome. " And they're all looking at me 24:03 and I said: "But we have a REVELATION chapter 13. " 24:06 And just to highlight what you mentioned here: 24:08 Revelation chapter 13 and verse 1: "I stood upon 24:12 the sand of the sea and I saw a beast 24:14 rise up out of the sea having 7 heads and 10 horns 24:17 and upon his horns 10 crowns 24:19 and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 24:22 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard" - Greece - 24:26 "His feet were as the feet of a bear" - Medo-Persia - 24:28 "and his mouth as the mouth of a lion" - Babylon - 24:32 "and the dragon gave him his seat and power 24:35 and great authority. " 24:37 So you have the 4 kingdoms there just like in the book of Daniel. 24:40 We have a Revelation 13, a Daniel 13 if you will. 24:44 A connection between the two books. 24:46 And then Revelation 13 goes on to bring us more history, 24:50 more prophetic history, taking us all the way down 24:52 to the second coming of Jesus Christ. 24:54 That's right... exactly James. 24:56 And the last verse of Rev. 13 hits the nail on the head 25:01 and says: "Here is wisdom. 25:04 let him that has understanding 25:05 let him count the number of the beast 25:07 for it is the number of a man. " 25:10 A man... and his number is 666. 25:13 In The 666 Beast Identified on page 62 25:17 it zeroes in on one particular German scholar - 25:22 a Protestant scholar - named Andreas Helwig. 25:25 And he first proposed 25:27 after he had studied this carefully 25:31 in the year 1600 25:32 that there was a title that belonged to the popes 25:36 specifically that calculated out to 666. 25:40 And then in 1612, he expanded his documentation on this. 25:46 And in the year 1630 he came out with a 91-page 25:49 document - hmm - and this was the title of it: 25:52 I'm going to read it to you: 25:54 It was in Latin and here it is in English: 25:57 The Roman antichrist revealed by his own name 26:01 and against the glory and the authority of our Lord 26:04 Jesus Christ, the supreme and only High Priest 26:08 of the church. This vaunted by Vicarius Filii Dei 26:12 which is a Latin title which means 26:14 Vicarius means the vicar 26:17 and then going on the Filii means the vicar of the Son 26:21 and Dei means God. So this title - this Latin 26:24 title for the pope Vicarius Filii Dei 26:26 means that the pope is the Vicar of the Son of God. 26:28 He is the representative of the Son of God on earth. 26:31 And Helwig said: "This vaunted Vicarius Filii Dei 26:34 claims for himself and imposes upon the entire world. " 26:37 It's quite a long title but in that title 26:40 he put these three words: Vicarius Filii Dei 26:44 which is the Latin title for the pope... 26:47 one of the most infamous titles in history. 26:50 And then he calculated out. If you add up the Roman numeral 26:55 values of Vicarius and then Filii and then Dei 26:59 when you add up the numbers 27:02 it calculates out to six hundred sixty-six exactly. 27:08 And Helwig was the first one that we know of 27:12 that proposed this interpre- tation of this verse. 27:16 And in the last 15-20 years some Internet archaeologists 27:20 have gone into the libraries of Europe 27:22 and they have found original copies 27:26 of Helwig's book and his tract. 27:29 And eventually this interpretation 27:31 it grew in power within Protestantism 27:36 until you get to the late 1700's and early 1800's 27:40 it became interdenominationally the dominant interpretation 27:46 of Revelation 13 verse 18 27:49 that had ever been published in the history of Christianity. 27:55 And that's very significant. 27:56 And I've done a lot of research on this 27:58 and the research is inside The 666 Beast Identified. 28:01 And I'm absolutely convinced that this title 28:05 fits every single one of those ten facts 28:09 that are there in the book of Revelation 28:12 like no other interpretation. 28:15 And it's interesting. You know, some people say: "Well, 28:17 how can you take a Latin title 28:20 and apply this to the book of Revelation? " 28:23 Because Revelation, of course was written in Greek. 28:25 But it's very interesting, James. In John chapter 19 28:28 when Jesus was crucified in verses 18 to 20 28:31 Pontius Pilate put a title above His head. 28:35 It was some kind of a wooden... piece of wood. 28:39 And he wrote on it a title 28:41 and the title was: This is Jesus of Nazareth, 28:44 the King of the Jews was the title. Hmm. 28:46 And the Bible says it was written in Hebrew 28:49 and Greek and Latin. 28:51 So Latin was right there. 28:52 Because Hebrew was the language of the Old Testament; Right. 28:56 Greek is the language of the New Testament; 28:57 and Latin was the language of Rome. Um-hmm! 29:00 And that Latin language became the language 29:04 of the Roman Catholic church. 29:05 That's why for years their masses were said in Latin. 29:07 So Latin is really the Roman language. Um-hmm. 29:12 And when you take that Latin title Vicarius Filii Dei 29:16 which was a title for the pope... And there's a lot of 29:18 documentation behind this as well... 29:20 and you calculate it out - you count it out - 29:23 as the Scripture says: "Count it out; calculate it out" 29:26 it comes out to exactly six hundred sixty and six. 29:31 Now Steve, I've... By the way, I remember 29:34 going to church and having the church in Latin 29:37 and I couldn't understand anything that was going on. 29:39 So I can totally relate to this 29:41 but a lot of people have said and I've heard this 29:45 you know over time and it gave me a little bit of a 29:48 stir because I thought about all of the information 29:51 you've just shared, what you put in the book. 29:53 But people have said: "Well that name, that calculating of 29:57 that number can apply to a lot of different people. 30:00 A lot of different titles. " 30:03 People have applied it to... I remember hearing it applied 30:06 to Ronald Wilson Reagan. You know six six six. 30:10 Even Ellen Gould White. Six... you know. 30:14 So how? Just open that up for us a little bit 30:17 and explain how you see the difference. 30:20 Sure. And my book goes through 30:22 nine different false interpretations - OK - of 666 30:27 and that's one of them. One of the ideas is 30:28 well that name or number of if you take different 30:32 people's names like Ronald... There's six letters 30:34 in Ronald. Wilson, there's 6. Reagan, there's 6. 30:37 That maybe it's him and they just kind of 30:39 dismiss the whole idea because you can apply 30:43 you know 666 to a number of different names. 30:47 But the fact is... And that's why we started out with 30:49 those 10 facts in Revelation... 30:51 10 facts about the number... 30:54 is that Ronald Reagan - if he's the guy 30:58 if he's the 666 man - 31:00 he has to fit all the other facts of Revelation 13. 31:06 He has to fit ten facts. 31:08 He has to come out of the Roman Empire. 31:10 You know, he has to have a mouth speaking great things. 31:12 Make war on the saints. 31:14 He has to follow in the history of the breakout of the Roman 31:17 Empire and all of the other pieces need to fit together. 31:21 And they don't. Um-hmm. And some people say: 31:23 "Well, it's Nero. " But he doesn't fit all those facts. 31:26 And all the different interpretations of 666- 31:28 all those alternative views - they don't fit the facts. 31:32 There's only one... only one beast 31:35 that fits all the facts and only one name. 31:38 There's only one man - which is the pope - 31:40 and there's only one name - Vicarius Filii Dei - 31:42 that when you break it down adds up to 666. 31:45 And so my book deals with all these swirling issues. 31:48 If people go on the Internet today and Google 31:50 Vicarius Filii Dei 666, 31:52 they're going to find all kinds of different views. 31:54 And the Roman church has certainly countered this. 31:57 They say: "Well, Protestants say that Vicarius Filii Dei is 32:00 on the mitre of the pope or a papal tiara but we've never 32:04 found that tiara" so they dismiss it that way. 32:06 Some people say: "Well it's impossible to understand 32:09 it anyway... it's all speculation. " 32:11 But the text says: "Here is wisdom. 32:13 Let him that has understanding count this number. " 32:15 So we CAN understand it. 32:16 And again, you have to apply all the ten facts. 32:19 And when you really look at any different alternative theory 32:23 and if you apply the Biblical facts of those ten points 32:27 there's only one interpretation, James, 32:31 that fits all the facts. 32:33 And this one interpretation used to be the dominant 32:37 interpretation of the Protestant world. 32:40 And it's been lost sight of, but my book resurrects it! 32:43 OK. This is growing, and we've gotta understand this 32:46 because 666 identifies 32:49 the power that is going to deceive the world 32:52 and the man that is at the head of this. 32:55 OK. So we've just got a little bit of time left. 32:58 We've got about 15-20 minutes left. 33:01 You just brought up something, Steve, that kind of is... 33:03 is significant to me. 33:05 When you came out with this book I got a copy of it 33:08 right away. I wanted to look through it, go over it 33:10 because within our church 33:14 there were scholars... and I'm talking about people 33:17 that have lots of letters behind their names... 33:20 who made the claim that we made a mistake 33:23 about this historically. Even in some of the best books 33:26 that were written and are recommended 33:28 to this day saying that this name was written on 33:32 the mitre of the pope's crown 33:35 you know there was some question mark about that. 33:38 And I remember reading these scholarly reports 33:42 and thinking in my mind: "Oh, wow! We've actually 33:45 maybe misunderstood this or misrepresented this. " 33:48 How would you respond to that kind of a claim? 33:51 Yeah. In The 666 Beast Identified 33:54 I go into that whole controversy about the mitre. 33:57 It's true that there were some eye-witness accounts 34:00 in the 1800's that claim to have seen 34:03 Vicarius Filii Dei on the papal tiara. 34:06 OK. And this become... There was quite a discussion 34:09 about this, but we've never actually been able to find 34:14 a tiara that has that. So the Catholic church 34:16 has responded and said the whole idea is bogus 34:20 because "no mitre no crown... we've never found it. " 34:23 OK. And some people even within our own church 34:26 have looked at that and said: 34:27 "We don't really have a leg to stand on because 34:29 we used to say it was on the mitre 34:31 and we've never found a mitre so therefore the whole 34:33 interpretation just goes out the window. " 34:35 But that's not true. 34:37 The fact is that whether it ever was on a mitre 34:40 or a tiara that's really irrelevant 34:43 because the text doesn't say it has to be on the papal headgear. 34:47 The text just says it has to fit all the Biblical 34:50 characteristics and it does. 34:52 Now another wind of doctrine even within our own church 34:56 is that 666 really... You have the number six, 35:00 another six, another six. 35:02 Adam was made on the 6th day. 35:04 Six is the number of man. 35:05 So triple 6's really means like 35:08 the ultimate rebellion or imperfection 35:12 or humanity. It doesn't apply to the pope. 35:14 It's just sort of a symbolic number of the imperfection 35:17 of man. But that's a false view 35:19 because it assumes that the number 6 is a bad number 35:23 which it isn't. On the 6th day of creation 35:26 God said it was "very good. " 35:28 And in Revelation chapter 4 you have 35:30 these living creatures that have six wings. 35:32 And so... you know and they're holy beings. 35:34 So the idea that 6 is inherently a problematic number 35:38 is just numeral fiction. 35:42 It's not Biblical at all. 35:45 And not only that but the text doesn't say 35:47 six six six. The text says 35:51 "six hundred sixty and six" 35:55 and that you have to calculate it to get to that number. 35:59 So Helwig's interpretation which like I said became 36:02 the dominant view of Protestantism for a long time 36:05 this really does fit. And my conviction is 36:08 as we get closer to the end of Revelation 13 36:11 where we're getting closer to the time of the mark, 36:13 we're losing our freedoms, the world is heading 36:17 rapidly toward the final crisis 36:19 God wants us to get down to those final verses 36:22 and not only understand the mark 36:25 but also the beast and the name and the number of its name. 36:29 And we need to know this, and before we're done 36:32 we need to also talk about the spiritual meaning to us 36:35 which is really to me the biggest issue. 36:39 I think that is the biggest issue, Steve, 36:40 but I really appreciate the clarification on the mitre 36:43 and a little bit of the history here 36:45 because I think that Satan is coming in and he's trying 36:48 to dismantle the foundation of truth 36:52 and the identifying marks that we have to remind our viewers 36:54 that God has put in His Word. So God has written Revelation 36:58 chapter 13 and God has pro- nounced a blessing on this Book: 37:01 "Blessed are those that read and hear and keep the words 37:04 that are written therein. " So it's really significant 37:06 I think that we remind ourselves 37:09 that these words are written by 37:11 a God who cares for us; a God who loves us; 37:13 a God who does not want us to be deceived. 37:15 You know, in Matthew 24 Jesus warns several times 37:18 about deception... especially before His coming 37:21 or before His return for His church. 37:24 And we need to recognize that deception is in the air 37:28 we breathe. Today of course we might call it 37:30 misinformation, right? Or fake news. 37:33 But there's a lot of deception taking place, Steve. 37:35 But yes, let's move to that. 37:37 I think that's the primary reason why we're having 37:39 this whole program is really to move to 37:42 you know: what does this mean to me personally? 37:43 Is this all just a bunch of history and symbolism? 37:47 Or does it have a personal application to me in my own 37:50 heart and experience? 37:52 Right. Well, one thing it means to us personally 37:54 is the whole world really is looking to one man 38:00 as the dominant religious authority on this planet 38:04 which is the man who's dressed in white all the time 38:06 and who the politicians and the media are looking to 38:10 to give guidance in world affairs. 38:13 And we need to recognize that that man 38:16 is really the 666 man according to the Bible 38:19 and he's not a reliable guide. 38:21 Now the second point has to do with what it means 38:24 in my heart. In Revelation 15 verse 2 38:28 John says: "I saw as it were a sea of glass 38:31 mingled with fire, and them that had gotten the victory 38:34 over the beast and over his image 38:36 and over his mark and over the number of his name 38:40 standing on the sea of glass having the harps of God. " 38:43 So this verse tells us that God's going to have a people 38:46 who get the victory over the beast, the image, 38:49 the mark, and the number of his name. 38:51 And as I thought about this, James, I prayed about this 38:54 and I've searched into this 38:55 I've concluded that the beast itself 38:59 and the man and the name 39:02 and the interpretation of 666 39:05 really points to a person who claims to be the voice 39:09 of God in the earth. 39:10 He claims to be the ruler not only of the church 39:16 but of the state. OK. He has TREMENDOUS power. 39:18 And in II Thessalonians 2:4 39:21 it describes this power as being a "self-exalting power. " 39:27 It says he will "oppose and he will exalt himself 39:30 above all that is called God or that is worshiped. " 39:33 And if you really study this out 39:35 the principle of self-exaltation 39:38 is just immersed and interwoven 39:43 with the whole history of the papal power 39:46 and this man claiming to really be the voice of God 39:50 upon the earth. 39:52 And that principle of self-exaltation 39:54 is not just a papal problem. 39:58 It's a problem that really goes back to the devil 40:01 who exalted himself in heaven and wanted to be... 40:04 be his own God. 40:05 And when Adam and Eve sinned 40:07 it's a problem that has infected humanity. Um-hmm. 40:12 You know, it's infected Babylon. 40:14 It infected the Pharisees. 40:16 It infects Laodicea. 40:18 It has infected people all throughout history 40:21 and it's something that sad to say has infected 40:25 you know me and you. We all have a fallen nature 40:28 that is prone to self-exaltation. 40:32 And that's where the scripture that says 40:35 "Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord 40:38 and He will lift you up. " 40:40 And Jesus said in Matthew 11 verse 29... 40:43 28 and 29 He said: "Come to Me 40:46 all you who are weary and burdened 40:47 and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you 40:50 and learn from Me for I am meek 40:53 and I am lowly in heart 40:55 and you will find rest to your souls. " 40:57 And I've concluded that in order to get the victory 40:59 over the beast, the image, the mark, and the # of its name 41:02 which is symbolized by that individual who claims to really 41:07 practically be God on earth 41:08 who is called "His Holiness, " "the Holy Father, " 41:11 things like this which are titles that should NEVER 41:13 apply to any mortal man 41:15 then we ourselves need to get the victory over that same 41:20 principle of self-exaltation and pride. 41:24 Um-hmm. And we need to humble ourselves and focus on Jesus 41:27 because He's the Lamb who is meek and lowly in heart. 41:31 And the battle, James, is between the beast and the Lamb, 41:34 between pride and humility. 41:36 And we need to be purified from that self-exaltation 41:41 which is so natural to all of us - um-hmm - 41:46 and become Like Jesus through His grace and through His power. 41:50 And that's really what it means to me and to you. 41:54 Amen; Amen! So, friends, we need to recognize 41:58 that what God is doing in Revelation chapter 13 42:01 is He's pointing us to the Lamb in contrast to humanity. 42:06 Because really the beast is a composite of the whole 42:09 human race. It's a composite of who we are. 42:11 And the reason why the world "wonders after the beast" 42:13 is because the beast is revealing the very principles 42:17 that we are imbibing ourselves individually. 42:20 One of the ways that I see us imbibing this principle more 42:23 than any other in these last days is through media. 42:26 You know: through Facebook; through Twitter; 42:28 through Instagram where the focus is very much 42:31 on ourselves. We get our little hits, you know. 42:33 Our little likes, and we just get consumed in all of that 42:38 in order for us to feel better maybe about ourselves. 42:41 And the more likes we get the more followers we get 42:44 you know as if we were to have people following us. 42:48 We need to follow the Lamb and there's the contrast. 42:51 In fact, it's really interesting, isn't it Steve? 42:53 that in Revelation chapter 14 you have the antidote 42:56 if you will to the beast power. 42:58 And the antidote to the beast power in Revelation chapter 14 43:02 and verse 4 says: 43:04 "These are they which are not defiled with women 43:07 for they are virgins. These are they which follow 43:09 the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. " 43:13 And I don't want to speak negatively about Facebook 43:17 or Twitter. A lot of people use those accounts 43:20 you know to witness and to share and to stay connected. 43:25 And Paul even says in I Corinthians 11 43:28 "Be ye followers - even as I also - of Christ. " 43:31 And if we're following Christ 43:32 praise the Lord that we can lead other people. 43:34 You know, use those platforms to lead other people 43:37 to follow Christ. But many times Satan comes in through 43:40 the back door you know as he has done so many times 43:43 with God's people and is doing in these last days. 43:47 And he undermines that motiva- tion to direct people to Jesus. 43:51 You know, we think about Daniel for example. 43:54 You remember when he first was brought in before the king 43:57 because he was going to die with the rest of the wise men 43:59 of Babylon. And King Nebuchadnezzar 44:02 had that dream that he couldn't remember. 44:04 And Daniel was asking Arioch, 44:08 the king's guard: "What's 'troubling the king? " 44:10 And he went in to inquire of the king 44:13 if he could be given time. He went back to his friends. 44:15 They prayed together, and as they prayed God gave him 44:17 an answer. And Daniel goes back in 44:19 and Arioch says: "I found the man! " 44:21 Nebuchadnezzar says: "Are you the one? " 44:24 "Can you answer this dream? " 44:25 And Daniel says: "None of your wise men, 44:27 your soothsayers, none of your astrologers 44:29 can answer this but there is a God in heaven. " 44:31 He complete obscures himself. 44:33 He gives all the glory to God. That's right! 44:35 And that's really the principle we're talking about here. 44:38 That's right exactly. And the big metal man 44:41 finally gets hit with a rock 44:43 and the man crumbles. Um-hmm. 44:45 And there's a message there: 44:47 "Man and self-exaltation is going to go down - 44:52 um-hmm - and the Rock of Ages is going to endure forever. " 44:55 The rock represents Jesus Christ and His kingdom. 44:58 And Jesus said we must "fall on the Rock & be broken. " 45:01 Our self. You know, you could say "selfies. " 45:06 I think it's funny or instructive that the word 45:10 "selfie" - that's our problem 45:12 is we're selfies... we're too self-exalting 45:15 and we need to learn humility from Jesus Christ. 45:18 And I want to make it clear that my book 45:19 The 666 Beast Identified is not an attack on Catholics 45:23 'cause we all have this problem. 45:25 But it does identify the real beast and the real man 45:28 that we need to not be led astray by 45:30 and it points us all - ALL of us - Catholics, Protestants, 45:33 Jews, everybody - to Jesus Christ our Savior. 45:36 Amen! I think one of the things you mentioned just now, 45:38 Steve: you know we all have this "I" problem. 45:40 You know, we have our iPhone; we have our iPad; 45:43 and we have our iMac... all of it. 45:45 It's just so prominent we don't even think about it. 45:48 But the "I" problem is right here in the Bible. 45:51 Isaiah chapter 14 verses 12 through 14 45:54 where this first issue is identified 45:58 in the heart of Satan and his desire. 46:01 Let's just read those verses. His desire in chapter 12: 46:04 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, 46:06 son of the morning? How art thou cut down 46:09 to the ground which did weaken the nations? " 46:11 Right? "For thou has said in thine heart... " 46:13 So it wasn't necessarily out loud, but in his heart 46:15 he said: "I will ascend to the heavens. 46:18 I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. 46:20 I will sit on the mount of the congregation 46:22 in the sides of the north. I will ascend above 46:24 the heights of the clouds. I will be like the Most High. " 46:28 So he had an "I" problem; we have a self-problem. 46:31 We inherited that from Satan - that's right - as we obeyed him, 46:35 as we followed him we've inherited that from him. 46:38 And the problem with this of course, is that 46:41 these verses are actually a mischaracterization of God. 46:44 You know, God is not One that wants to exalt Himself. 46:47 God is One that humbles Himself. 46:50 And I think about that in the manifestation of Jesus Christ 46:53 who came. Being equal with God didn't 46:56 think it a thing to be grasped onto to be equal with God. 46:59 But humbled Himself; became a man. 47:01 Took the form of a servant and died the death of the cross 47:05 that we might be saved. 47:06 And when we get to heaven we are actually there 47:09 by faith in Jesus Christ and His righteousness alone. 47:12 We're going to sit at that great marriage supper of the Lamb 47:14 and who's going to serve us? 47:16 Jesus Christ is going to serve us. It's going to be Jesus! Yes! 47:19 And that's the character of God. 47:21 The character of God is a character of service. 47:23 And we think about... The other day I was thinking about 47:27 Christianity, friends, and I was thinking about how 47:29 we view Christianity. And many times we view Christianity 47:32 as something that we get. We get eternal life; 47:34 we get blessings; and God's going to give us this 47:36 and God's going to give us that and God's going to do 47:38 this and God's going to do that for us 47:40 and that's really not the pic- ture that we find in the Bible. 47:42 In the Bible we find a picture of Christianity 47:45 that's a picture of service, of giving, of humility, 47:49 of other centeredness. 47:51 And that's the way we were made; that's the image in which 47:53 we were created. And it's when we are restored 47:56 to that image that we find our greatest joy. 47:58 Our greatest joy is in serving and giving. 48:01 Our greatest joy is in humbling ourselves 48:04 and being like our Master Jesus Christ. 48:06 And this spirit in Revelation chapter 13 is exactly 48:09 the opposite. And so the way out of this, friends, 48:12 is to follow the Lamb. That's the only option that we have. 48:15 We can't pull ourselves out of this by our bootstraps. 48:17 We have to have our focus on Jesus 48:20 and He'll lead us out of this. 48:22 Because who can discern the heart? You know, who can 48:24 know the depth of the heart? It's wicked above all things 48:27 and desperately... 48:29 So... But Jesus does know our hearts and He's the One that 48:32 can lead us out of this deception 48:35 which is not just a worldwide deception. 48:37 It's also a self-deception, you know? 48:39 We deceive ourselves... the Laodicean church: 48:41 completely deceived. We deceive ourselves 48:43 and lead us away from the name, the mark, and the image, 48:48 the number of the beast. 48:50 So Steve, what else? Is there anything else 48:52 you'd like to say in closing as we wrap this up? 48:54 Any other thoughts that come to your mind 48:56 other than the fact that I'd like to encourage everyone 48:58 to get a copy of this book 49:00 for sure and be familiar with this history. 49:04 Yeah, I think you've done a great job, James, 49:07 in summarizing that whole issue. 49:08 That the issue of the beast, the image, the mark, 49:10 the number: the bigger issue swirling through those issues 49:15 is the ultimate issue of God's character 49:17 and love and service versus self-exaltation. 49:20 Amen. To me, it's very interesting 49:22 in the last verse of Revelation chapter 13 verse 18. 49:25 Says: "Here is wisdom: 49:27 let him that has understanding count the number of the beast 49:30 for it is the number of a man 49:32 and his number is six hundred-three score and six. " 49:35 And then the next verse says: 49:37 "I looked, and lo, a Lamb stood on Mount Zion 49:41 and with Him 144,000 49:43 having His Father's name" which is God's character 49:47 "written in their foreheads. " 49:49 So you have the contrast right there 49:51 between the beast and the Lamb. 49:54 Between the beast/man and the humility of Christ 49:57 and the people that are following Him all the way. 50:00 And we all want to be... Hopefully we want to be part of 50:03 the Lamb followers and not the beast followers. 50:07 And these are Biblical issues; they're in the Word of God. 50:10 The Lord wants us to understand them, 50:12 to have wisdom about them, 50:15 to understand what's happening in this world 50:17 when the world is wondering after this man in white 50:21 that they think is the voice of God on earth. 50:23 We need to know he's not the voice of God. 50:26 We need to listen to the voice of Jesus... Jesus Christ 50:31 and the Word of God, and stick with Him 50:34 humbly and closely - um-hmm - and trusting 50:39 that Jesus is going to bring us through 50:42 and get us out of here and into glory. 50:44 And develop His character of service like you said. 50:48 Of other centeredness. Um-hmm. 50:50 That's what the Bible's all about. Amen! 50:53 And there's nothing greater than the Lamb 50:55 who sacrificed Himself for you and for me. 50:58 Amen. Praise the Lord, James. 51:00 Glad that we could do this even though I'm not there 51:03 with you. You're over there at 3ABN and I'm in Idaho. 51:06 God can still use what we're doing together 51:09 to glorify His name and advance His truth. Um-hmm! 51:13 Yeah, I've always appreciated that about you, Steve. 51:15 I've always appreciated that about the emphasis 51:17 of your ministry. And that is that it's not just an emphasis 51:21 on history and prophecy; it's not just an emphasis 51:23 on the truths that we've been looking at here 51:26 but it's also an emphasis on practical Christian experience. 51:30 I really think that's important 51:32 for those of you who are listening in. 51:34 We need to... As we decipher all of this 51:36 we need to remember that this is about our relationship 51:39 with Jesus Christ. 51:40 It's not just about our head knowledge; 51:42 it's about a heart experience that God wants us to have 51:44 with Him. Anyway, we have just about run out of time. 51:48 We want to encourage you to get ahold of this book. 51:49 Don't go away... we'll be right back. |
Revised 2022-09-22