Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY220003A
|
00:01 As you're well aware,
00:03 we're living in unprecedented times. 00:05 Join us now for Today special program. 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Mending broken people 00:23 I want to spend my life 00:29 Removing pain 00:34 Lord, let my words 00:39 Heal a heart that hurts 00:44 I want to spend my life 00:50 Mending broken people 00:55 I want to spend my life 01:00 Mending broken people 01:15 Hello, and welcome to 3ABN Today. 01:17 I'm John Lomacang, 01:18 and I have my lovely wife with me Angela. 01:20 Good to have you here, honey. 01:21 I'm always happy to be here. 01:23 And welcome to 3ABN Today program. 01:26 Do we have an exciting program, honey? 01:28 We do. 01:29 As you have heard the song leading into this program, 01:31 Danny has had this as a theme from the very beginning, 01:35 Spending Our Lives Mending Broken People. 01:38 And this program is about broken people, 01:41 but not generally broken people. 01:43 This is about a category of broken people 01:45 that don't often make conversation 01:48 around the Thanksgiving table or the dinner table. 01:51 Or it's a conversations 01:53 that some people don't want to have with their parents, 01:55 and some parents don't want to have with their children, 01:58 and some spouses 01:59 don't want to have with their equivalent other. 02:02 Like wife don't want to tell husband, 02:03 husband don't want to tell wife. 02:05 True. 02:06 And these are the conversations 02:07 that young people are having with other young people 02:09 that parents wish they knew about and so... 02:13 Yeah, some television programs, it's... 02:14 Yeah. 02:16 We're talking about a very hot topic today, 02:18 LGBTIAQ culture 02:22 and how it fits into a Bible verse 02:26 that I want to share with you at the very beginning 02:28 just before we introduce our guest. 02:30 You know, 2 Corinthians 5:17, it's a powerful passage. 02:34 And it fits so beautifully into our program today 02:36 because as a pastor, 02:38 I've always taught that we can confess our sins, 02:41 we serve a forgiving God, we serve a redemptive God, 02:45 we serve a restoring God and a rebuilding God. 02:48 A God who accepts us as we are 02:51 but never leaves us the way He finds us. 02:54 But somehow, 02:55 with the legalization of the LGBTQ in America, 03:00 and I want to put this in the proper context, 03:02 is that some people have felt, 03:04 "Well, as a song years ago by Billy Joel, 03:07 I love You Just The Way You Are, 03:10 but I'll leave you just the way you are." 03:12 And I've heard a lot of people, even pastor say, 03:13 "The Lord loves you just the way you are." 03:15 But I want to add, 03:17 He never leaves you the way He finds you. 03:19 That's so true. And that's not... 03:21 There's not a single story in the Bible 03:23 where the Lord Jesus met someone 03:25 and left them blind, 03:26 hurt, bleeding to death. 03:29 Even Lazarus, raised him to live, 03:31 the demoniac, He freed him 03:33 and He restored him to his right mind. 03:35 So we're going to talk about that today. 03:37 And you may know of someone, I have family members, 03:40 couple of them that are gay. 03:43 And I'm going to say that openly, clearly. 03:46 But I preach a redemptive gospel, 03:49 not a, "Hey, just stay the way you are." 03:51 And we should... 03:52 But you still love on them, don't you? 03:54 Love them all, and they know that. 03:55 They know you love them. 03:57 That's the wonderful thing about it. 03:58 And so we have to keep in mind that 03:59 we should never look at any sector of society 04:02 as collateral, 04:03 meaning, "Well, the devil can have them, 04:05 because we don't have any answers for them." 04:07 If any place people should come to find answers 04:09 for anything they face in life, 04:11 no matter what it is, 04:12 it should be the Christian church. 04:14 Amen. 04:16 We should have answers for any issue that they face. 04:19 As one person once says, "Whatever the question, 04:23 Jesus is the answer." 04:26 Honey, read that for us, 04:27 2 Corinthians 5:17. 04:28 I'd like you to read that 04:30 since I've been talking so much. 04:31 I'm on my New Yorker, 100 miles an hour. 04:34 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, 04:36 he is a new creation." 04:39 Love this, "Old things have passed away, 04:43 and behold, all things have become new." 04:45 That's right. It's so assuring, isn't it? 04:47 And that's for anyone, isn't it? 04:49 That's for anyone. That's for everyone. 04:50 Sin is sin. No matter how. 04:52 But what has happened in the world today 04:54 and particularly in American society, 04:56 that's what we're dealing with primarily, 04:58 but around the world, 05:00 more tolerant in some areas than others. 05:02 We have, kind of, categorized certain areas 05:04 of people's struggles in sins as, 05:06 "It's acceptable. 05:08 It's legalized." 05:09 You know, alcohol got legalized years ago, 05:11 then smoking got legalized tobacco, 05:14 then marijuana has been legalized recently. 05:17 I don't know how pornography ever got legalized. 05:19 It just didn't make sense to me. 05:21 No. 05:22 And now the gay and lesbian, and bisexual and transgender 05:25 has been legalized in America. 05:27 And somehow we think that legalization 05:29 makes something acceptable to God. 05:31 Well, we're going to talk about it today 05:33 from a loving perspective, 05:34 from a scriptural perspective, 05:36 from a redemptive and rebuilding perspective. 05:38 And I think on that note, we should introduce our guest. 05:41 Honey, would you do that? 05:42 Oh, Wayne Blakely is our guest today. 05:45 Welcome, Wayne. Thank you. 05:48 You are not new to 3ABN. 05:50 You've been on Dare To Dream, 3ABN. 05:52 Yeah, I haven't been here for about five years. 05:55 And it's certainly a pleasure to be back, 05:56 honored to be here. 05:58 Oh, now, could you give us a brief sketch of your story, 06:02 your testimony? 06:03 Sure. I grew up in the church. 06:07 I grew up and recognized, very early in my life, 06:10 that I had same sex attraction. 06:12 Didn't know where this fell, 06:13 but as I was around 13 years old, 06:15 every place I read in the Bible, 06:17 it was certainly wasn't something that 06:19 was condoned by God 06:23 to move on those attractions. 06:26 And by the time I was 18 years old, 06:29 you know, there had been deathly silence in the church. 06:31 And so the LGBTQ community got my attention. 06:35 I left God and the church and lived 06:37 according to how I felt for the next 40 years. 06:41 That would include 12 years of male prostitution. 06:46 Everybody has a story, and I believe that 06:50 whether you believe one lie from the enemy 06:52 of a monogamous relationship 06:54 between two same gender individuals 06:56 or whether you believe a thousand lies 06:57 and you go off 06:59 and you're promiscuous 07:00 or do whatever you want to do, 07:02 none of it is pleasing in God's eyes. 07:04 And so He's seeking to grab our attention. 07:07 And after 40 years, within the culture itself, 07:11 I had lost all my friends to AIDS. 07:13 And I found myself in my bedroom one day, 07:16 thinking, "Hmm, what does my destiny look like 07:19 knowing all that I know as it relates to the Bible?" 07:21 And I knew that 07:23 unless there was some kind of change in my life, 07:25 I only had one life to live. 07:27 Wow. 07:29 And you know, talking about that topic, 07:30 I know that as we're diving into this, 07:33 there may be someone watching or listening to the program 07:35 that may have just turned the volume up, 07:37 or may have just turned the volume down. 07:39 But I want to encourage you that this is a very real topic 07:43 in our world today. 07:44 And I've seen, many years ago, 07:46 there's the burying your head in the sand, 07:49 that is going to go away. 07:50 That's not really going to happen in our world today. 07:52 So that's why we decided... 07:54 And the focus of the program, 07:55 we're going to talk about four things 07:57 that are significant. 07:58 And the four R's, 08:00 I'll tell you what that is in a moment, 08:01 and I'll have Wayne introduce those. 08:03 And we have two books today that we want to talk about. 08:06 And as a pastor, I received a copy of this book, 08:09 one is called Guiding Families. 08:11 And I'll have Wayne talk about that a little bit. 08:13 Do you see it on the screen, 08:15 Guiding Families of LGBT Plus Loved Ones? 08:19 And by the North American Division 08:20 of Seventh-day Adventist, 08:22 and I'm a pastor in the North American Division 08:23 of Seventh-day Adventist. 08:24 So this... Ordained minister. 08:26 Ordained minister for 34 years now, 08:28 in my 35th year. 08:30 Wow, it's amazing. Went fast. 08:32 And this is another book that... 08:34 Wayne was the founder too? Yeah. 08:36 It's called, Line By Line. 08:38 It's a response to the Guiding Families book. 08:41 And it's also a biblical analysis 08:44 of Guiding Families. 08:46 It's a... 08:47 It's another words, 08:49 comparing what this says to what the Bible says. 08:52 And what I want to make very clear as a pastor 08:55 in the Seventh-day Adventist Church 08:57 in the North American Division. 08:59 One other things that 09:00 we want to make very clear at the very beginning 09:01 is there's no blanket statement that all pastors believe this 09:05 or all pastors believe that, 09:07 but in the varying communities 09:09 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church 09:10 and the Christian community in general, 09:12 because this is not something that's just denominational. 09:14 This is across the spectrum in all denominations. 09:18 It's a real issue that people have to confront. 09:20 It has split some congregations, 09:22 some churches have split right down the middle 09:24 and gone off into one direction 09:26 and others have remained. 09:27 Some have become more conservative, 09:29 some have become ultra liberal and accept anything. 09:33 But the key today in the program 09:34 is very simple question. 09:39 If this topic 09:42 is one that the Bible is silent on, 09:46 then it gives us no foundation to address it. 09:48 Then it's an opinion topic. 09:50 But if the Bible talks about this topic, 09:54 then we need to find out what the Bible says about it, 09:57 what God's view is on it? 10:00 And if the Bible puts this in the category of sin, 10:05 the Bible will also put this in the category of showing us 10:08 how people that are embracing this life 10:12 can be redeemed. 10:13 There's not a sin in the Bible that cannot be redeemed. 10:16 And so if we teach that, 10:18 well, the Lord loves you just the way you are, 10:21 and He'll leave you just the way He finds you. 10:22 Then we've lost the power of the gospel. 10:25 So I'm going to just, kind of, throw this back to Wayne on... 10:28 Let's just start with... 10:29 I'll give you a chance to start from 10:31 where you feel comfortable to start from. 10:33 Well, I'd like to start with what, 10:36 for some of the viewers, 10:37 would be a bit of an elephant in the room. 10:40 And that is that I am a retired co-founder 10:44 of Coming Out Ministries, 10:46 a ministry who is a parallel ministry 10:49 of mine. 10:50 I'm sharing about restoration, 10:52 reconciliation and redemption through Jesus Christ 10:55 as it relates to the LGBT issue. 10:57 When I got baptized, 10:59 I didn't go under the water gay 11:01 and come up straight. 11:02 That disappointed a lot of people. 11:04 But if I started chasing women around, 11:06 I don't know that that would be, 11:07 or that would just be a new addiction. 11:10 But in my walk with God, 11:12 the first four years were basically 11:15 a honeymoon with God. 11:16 And then the enemy... 11:18 The more I would speak out, the more the enemy, 11:21 you know, will taunt you, 11:22 because he doesn't want anybody speaking out 11:24 about redemption on this topic. 11:27 And in my walk with Coming Out Ministries 11:30 as a co-founder there, 11:32 I came to a point in the road 11:33 where I did experience moral failure. 11:36 And as a result of that moral failure, 11:38 there was a consequence, 11:39 and that brought about my retirement 11:41 from Coming Out Ministries. 11:42 I would spend the next year and a half on the sofa. 11:44 I was watching crime drama 11:47 and cooking shows on television and saying, 11:50 you know, "God, what do I do now?" 11:52 Because I didn't stop believing Him, 11:55 I had only experienced failure, 11:58 and Satan had taken advantage of my weakness. 12:01 So I want to make a point today 12:03 that regardless of whether I would be sucked back in 12:06 by the LGBT community or not, 12:08 it doesn't change the truth 12:09 and the love of Jesus Christ no matter who you are, 12:12 or what you might suffer from. 12:15 One of the first things I did when I came up off 12:17 of that sofa, I was... 12:19 I met with a phone call that said, 12:22 "Are you familiar with the book Guiding Families 12:24 of LGBT Plus Loved Ones 12:26 that came out of our North American Division?" 12:28 I was not, but I got a copy of it. 12:30 And the pastor that called me said, 12:32 "I see an awful lot of love in here, 12:34 but I don't see any Go and Sin No More." 12:38 So I got a copy and I began to read through it. 12:41 And what I found from the first page 12:43 until the last was a cultural adaptation 12:46 of the LGBT community. 12:48 And as it relates to a church 12:51 whose foundational beliefs are in Scripture as it reads, 12:55 it didn't make sense to me 12:56 because it didn't offer hope and help and healing. 13:00 In the Guiding Families book, 13:02 you will not find the words restoration, 13:04 reconciliation or redemption. 13:07 And that was concerning to me. 13:09 And then I got a call that said, 13:12 "Would you be willing to write an analysis 13:16 of Guiding Families 13:18 as to why it doesn't work for our denomination 13:23 or for Christianity?" 13:24 And I was like, "Ah, man, 13:26 who wants to wade through mud to try to apply the truth?" 13:31 And I really didn't want to write it at all, 13:33 but I said, "You know, I'll pray about it." 13:37 And so I prayed. 13:39 And the next morning, I had an email from somebody, 13:41 who was very close to me, 13:46 who I had talked to about Guiding Families 13:51 about two months earlier. 13:53 And she wrote me, 13:57 she knew all about my departure from Coming Out Ministries, 14:01 and she sent this in this email. 14:03 And the only thing she said was, 14:05 "I believe that 14:06 God still has plans to use you." 14:09 And attach to the email 14:11 was a cover of the front of the Guiding Families book. 14:16 And I went, "Wow, God, I guess that's my answer." 14:19 And so I would take the next year and a half 14:22 in writing... 14:23 And that's why it's called, Line By Line 14:25 because I literally go line by line 14:27 through Guiding Families 14:29 to help the reader understand 14:31 what it is about Guiding Families. 14:33 It doesn't work from a cultural standpoint. 14:36 We need to look at things 14:37 from a biblical redemptive standpoint. 14:39 Amen. 14:40 Now, let me just embrace something here. 14:42 I've heard you say the word, Cultural, a couple of times. 14:46 Why not the word, Lifestyle? 14:49 Lifestyle is a word that is basically detested 14:53 by the LGBT plus community. 14:56 It's a demeaning word to, or a derogatory term 15:02 towards the LGBT community. 15:04 So there may be some in the LGBT community that, 15:06 actually, have a monogamous, same sex relationship. 15:09 Those people don't necessarily go out to the clubs, 15:12 the sex clubs, the bars 15:14 and do all the things that would be associated 15:15 with what would be termed, Lifestyle. 15:18 So when you use the term, LGBT Culture, 15:21 you're meeting people on level ground. 15:24 You're not making an insinuation 15:26 that you're scum, no. 15:28 And so I try very hard today to help people understand 15:32 that what we should be doing 15:34 is referring to the culture rather than to a lifestyle. 15:39 Now, this book, what were your observations 15:41 after reading this book? 15:43 Well, the book tells us that 15:45 we need to accept people for who they are, 15:48 who they say they are, 15:49 that we shouldn't be disappointed in that. 15:51 We shouldn't express our disappointment. 15:53 We shouldn't sit down and talk to them about the position 15:57 that God has or what His Word has to say, 15:59 because that would basically be offensive 16:01 to the person, 16:03 you know, who we're referring to. 16:04 Now, that might be the case 16:06 if you were standing outside of a gay bar. 16:08 You're not, necessarily, going to clobber them 16:09 over their head with, 16:11 "Jesus," as soon as they walk out. 16:12 But to somebody, 16:13 who's been raised in the church, 16:15 or for instance, in our Adventist institutions 16:18 or colleges and academies, 16:20 you should very much be able to talk to them 16:22 about their identity in Christ. 16:24 And that it shouldn't be based upon sexuality 16:28 but who Jesus says that they are. 16:29 That's right. 16:31 That's a good point, because a lot of times 16:32 when you look at the scriptures, 16:34 and having done so for as long as I've been pastoring, 16:37 even before that, Jesus sees the person first. 16:40 Amen. 16:41 You know, we see a blind man. Jesus sees... 16:46 Literally in the story 16:47 about the young man who was born blind, 16:50 see, He saw the man first, who was born blind. 16:53 He sees the person first before He sees their condition. 16:57 And so when we see people in society today, 17:01 for example, we will say, "A man who's an alcoholic. 17:04 A woman who is whatever." 17:08 The connection is to whatever the challenge is in her life. 17:11 And so what I'm hearing you say is, 17:13 if we could see the person first, 17:15 like Jesus saw the person first, 17:17 then we could... 17:19 They will sense that acceptance? 17:20 Right. 17:22 And so, you know the approach that I would take, 17:23 and the approach I take in my book 17:25 is that God loves every single person 17:27 who He's given the breath of life to. 17:29 But in our circumstances, of which there are many, 17:34 and there is a large contingency 17:36 of the LGBT plus community 17:38 that has so much silence even in the church 17:40 for so many years 17:41 that since the 70s have drawn a spotlight 17:45 to the LGBT plus agenda. 17:47 So while you have the spotlight, 17:49 let's talk about it in spiritual ways, 17:52 in godly ways 17:53 of which God wants to offer to you hope, 17:56 healing and restoration in Him. 17:59 So the book, Guiding Families, it just... 18:04 It leaves you where you are. 18:06 It tells the reader that the parents 18:08 and loved ones and pastors, 18:10 you must refer to this person by the gender 18:12 they wish to be referred to as, 18:16 or their sexual identity and their sexual orientation. 18:19 And I think that we've gotten lost, 18:22 because as you look at Scripture, 18:24 Scripture doesn't have a compass in it 18:26 for the sex that you desire. 18:29 What Scripture prescribes is that 18:32 God has given the gift of intimacy. 18:35 Not a sexual orientation, 18:36 but the gift of intimacy between the confines 18:40 of one man and one woman, 18:42 and that's in Genesis all the way to Revelation. 18:44 That's right. 18:45 If God did condone same sex monogamous relationships, 18:49 wouldn't it be mighty unfair of Him to not tell us 18:52 or give us an example of such somewhere in Scripture? 18:55 True. 18:56 So that's a big clue to me, 18:57 because that would be a tricky evil God. 18:59 I couldn't serve a God like that. 19:00 That's right. 19:01 So Satan, as he was able to deceive 19:04 and convinced a third of heaven to leave 19:06 and then starts out with Eve in the garden, 19:09 is doing the same thing to you and to me today to say, 19:13 "You know what? 19:14 God isn't fair on this. 19:16 You can't trust God on this. 19:17 You should be able to go and live 19:19 according to what you think is right. 19:21 You should be able to define love 19:22 the way you want, 19:24 as it relates to someone of the same gender." 19:27 And then God will wink at that. 19:29 God is going to be perfectly fine with that, 19:32 but that's not what Scripture tells us. 19:34 That's right. No. 19:35 Now, in this book, well, Guiding Families, 19:39 there's nothing about the redemptive power of Jesus. 19:42 What are your thoughts on that? 19:44 So this became very personal to me, 19:46 because I recognized 19:48 when I left the LGBT plus community, 19:51 I even asked the person 19:52 who helped with my redemptive process, 19:55 and I said, "So who am I today?" 19:58 And she said, "Oh, you're still gay." 20:01 And I said, "I didn't go through 20:04 all this repentance 20:05 and all this giving up myself for Christ 20:08 to still be called gay." 20:09 And then come to find out, 20:11 as you just read earlier, 20:12 I have an identity in Jesus Christ 20:14 as a new creation in Him 20:16 when I submit my will to Him. 20:18 And that's, whether you're LGBT or some other kind of sinner, 20:21 you can be a new creation in Christ 20:23 as you give your life over to Him. 20:25 You made a point. Go ahead. 20:27 It's like alcohol, AA, Alcoholics Anonymous, 20:29 they say you'll always known as an alcoholic. 20:31 I use that as an example. 20:33 You do? Yeah. 20:34 I say that to audiences where I speak today, 20:36 especially in the church, 20:37 that Jesus doesn't say, "Oh, here comes my alcoholic son," 20:40 when he comes to the foot of the cross. 20:42 He goes, "Here comes my new creature in Christ." 20:44 So let's get the identity correct. 20:47 And let's make sure that when we are offering something 20:50 that is from the Word of God. 20:51 We've been stagnant in our church 20:54 about not having the answers for people, 20:57 who are LGBT plus. 20:59 And we have statements on homosexuality that says 21:02 that this isn't behavior that God condones, 21:04 but what are you offering those people? 21:08 You're so right. 21:10 I mean, the Bible is so replete, 21:12 so filled with the topic of redemption. 21:15 Amen. 21:16 And, you know, when Paul says, 21:18 "Forgetting those things that are behind you, 21:19 reaching to those things that are ahead, 21:21 pressing toward the mark for the prize 21:23 of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus." 21:24 In our conversation, when we had lunch together, 21:27 and one of the things that really struck me 21:28 is when you said, "I wanted more." 21:32 I feel like I was robbed. 21:34 Christ is offering so much more, 21:37 but it's like I have not been told, 21:39 but I want to experience that abundance. 21:41 Talk about that for a moment? 21:45 Well, this is, kind of, 21:46 where the four R's come into the picture. 21:48 And, you know, I have been very blessed 21:52 and God has been very generous to me. 21:55 And today, because of the failures that I'm... 21:57 You know, my life has been a combination 21:59 of faith and failure. 22:01 And praise the Lord for stories 22:03 of Mary Magdalene and King David, 22:06 and Samson and others, you know, that God is there. 22:12 Proverbs 24:16 says that a righteous man 22:14 may fall seven times when... 22:16 So who gets him up? 22:18 You know, we should come around people 22:19 and help them get back up 22:21 and walk with them on the journey. 22:23 The journey can be a little bumpy along the way, 22:25 but don't turn and abandon. 22:27 God doesn't abandon us 22:28 so let's not abandon one another. 22:31 I found in ministry that I had reached a point 22:34 that's been somewhat of a plateau. 22:36 I surrender my life to Christ. 22:39 I deny, you know, myself, you know, as I walk with God, 22:43 that temptation thing, the desires that come. 22:45 But there's got to be something more. 22:47 And I discovered that there are what are called 22:51 the four R's 22:52 as it relates to this topic within Christianity. 22:56 We have the Rebel column, which basically says that, 23:00 "Hey, I'm gay. 23:02 I'm transgender. 23:03 I'm fine just the way I am. 23:05 God created me this way 23:08 and He doesn't have a problem with it." 23:10 Then we have... 23:11 And, you know, I would call myself 23:13 a gay Christian at that point, 23:14 in that column. 23:15 Then there's the Resist column that says, 23:18 "Well, promiscuity is not good, incest, abuse. 23:22 All these things, those things aren't good, 23:24 but God doesn't have a problem with me 23:25 having a monogamous, same sex relationship. 23:28 He may condone a same sex marriage, 23:31 but He, you know, He doesn't want us... 23:34 He gives us a little sense of morality there." 23:37 And so we... 23:38 The book, Guiding Families, 23:40 is actually written from a Rebel 23:42 and a Resist perspective. 23:45 Then we arrive at the third R, which would be Renounce, 23:49 and Renounce is where I've kind of been 23:52 in the last 12 years in ministry in that, 23:55 "I don't want a gay label. 23:56 I want who I am in Jesus Christ." 23:58 It says, "I'm a new creation in Him." 24:01 That I would deny myself for Christ. 24:03 I would walk with Him. 24:04 And that, yes, temptations and desires can be, 24:08 they can become sin if we sit 24:11 and consider them for very long. 24:13 James talks to us about, 24:15 you know, when things become sin in our lives. 24:18 But what we don't talk about, 24:20 and much because of the mudslinging 24:22 that has come from LGBT activist, 24:26 is with reference to things 24:28 like conversion and reparative therapy. 24:30 It was recently pointed out, 24:31 brought to my attention 24:33 that conversion and reparative therapy, 24:34 these aversive techniques of shock therapy, 24:38 immersing people in cold, 24:41 ice-cold baths and things like that. 24:43 These, kinds of, things were done 24:45 when homosexuality was still in the DSM, 24:47 which was a diagnostic tool 24:49 for psychologists to use. 24:51 But when the homosexuality 24:55 got removed from the DSM, 24:58 there weren't counselors doing behavioral therapies like that. 25:01 And so Christian therapists and all today 25:03 are seeking to give, 25:04 offer you what Jesus offers you. 25:07 It's a conversion of the heart, not a behavioral approach. 25:12 Okay, wait, say that again. 25:13 I don't want to run past that. 25:15 That's huge. I mean, that's like... 25:16 I know. That's huge. 25:19 It's the conversion of the heart, 25:21 okay, not a pursuit to be any particular... 25:25 Yeah, it's not a seeking out 25:28 to make you straight or heterosexual. 25:30 But God is after your heart to come into a point with Him, 25:35 where you want to live in agreement with Him. 25:37 Now, there's many single people that don't marry. 25:40 There are some people 25:42 that are celibate their entire lives. 25:43 But what I want to point out here, 25:45 sexual orientation wasn't given unto us 25:47 like a compass in the Bible that says, 25:49 "If you prefer this kind of sex, 25:51 go this direction. 25:52 If you like that kind of sex, go that direction." 25:54 It's still within the confines of which God gave it to us 25:58 in the gift of intimacy 25:59 between one man and one woman. 26:01 So let's drop sexual identity 26:03 and sexual orientation right from the get go, 26:06 because I don't know how we as a denomination 26:10 came to a point where we were so considerate 26:13 about somebody's sexual orientation, 26:15 instead of their orientation in Jesus Christ. 26:18 Wow, very good point. 26:19 That's powerful, 26:21 because I want to share something with you, 26:22 and this is, you know, why this topic 26:24 is so vitally important. 26:26 And we're talking to those who are watching the program 26:28 and those who are listening. 26:30 It's because we know in the experience 26:33 of the many years in ministry. 26:34 There are some pastors, who have children, 26:36 who are struggling in these areas of their lives. 26:38 And so the pastor, the clergy, 26:40 the husband and wife 26:41 are in this precarious situation 26:42 as a pastor. 26:44 Well, how do I shepherd my flock, 26:46 knowing that they know that my son or my daughter 26:48 is living a different life 26:50 than what I've proclaimed from the pulpit? 26:52 And so in some cases, some children have been, 26:55 you know, sequestered off stage 26:57 in a soundproof room feeling that 26:58 they've been rejected by their parents 27:00 so that they can be successful ministers. 27:03 Others have taken the next road. 27:04 They have left the ministry to give love and attention 27:08 to their child, whether boy or girl. 27:11 But then some have gone to the other extreme. 27:13 They've left the ministry, 27:14 and they've become proponents of that whole thing, 27:17 you know, the gay marches, the gay rallies. 27:19 And endorsement, yeah. 27:20 And endorsement, they went from acceptance 27:23 to endorsement to campaigning and saying, 27:27 "Well, this is who they are, 27:28 accept them as they are, and don't try to change them." 27:30 But I just heard you say is this whole shock therapy, 27:34 sticking needles, trying to brainwash people, it's... 27:37 It's obsolete. 27:38 That doesn't happen. 27:40 So, let's talk about things from a redemptive standpoint. 27:44 Let's talk about how we grow in Christ 27:47 and what Christ asked for us. 27:48 And, you know, so I was... 27:51 I was like a bulldog at the door of the church 27:53 when I first was converted. 27:55 I was like, "Let the gay people come in 27:58 and don't try to make them heterosexual." 28:00 You know because that's what they're so sure 28:02 that the church wants to do. 28:04 But the church has not been educated on this. 28:06 And most people think, 28:07 "Oh, the opposite of homosexuality 28:10 is heterosexuality." 28:11 So I tried to say today that you know, 28:16 the opposite of homosexuality is holiness. 28:19 Now we have... 28:20 We actually... Say that again. 28:22 The opposite of homosexuality or any sinful behavior 28:25 is holiness. 28:26 Okay. 28:27 Now, I just heard recently through LGBT activists 28:30 that are ministerial graduates 28:32 from one of our universities say, "Holiness." 28:37 "What in the world are you talking about? 28:39 What is holiness?" 28:40 And I was like, "Whoa, wait a minute. 28:42 So you went through years 28:44 in seminary and study of the Word 28:46 and you don't know what it is to be drawn to holiness?" 28:49 Wow. That is... 28:50 That is heartbreaking to hear that 28:52 because they're scoffing at ministries like 28:54 Know His love and Coming Out Ministries, 28:57 when what we're seeking to do 28:59 is put people in a relationship with Jesus Christ, 29:02 where He brings about hope and healing. 29:05 Now, what we've done, and I'm guilty of this too, 29:09 is I stopped, I did stop 29:12 at surrendering and repentance to Jesus 29:15 as though there wasn't any more available for me. 29:18 And now, I learned about the fourth R. 29:21 Okay, don't go to it yet. 29:23 I want to segue into that with this scripture. 29:25 Sure. 29:26 Because as people are listening, 29:27 somebody might say, "Well, 29:29 could you give me some Bible?" 29:30 Yes, let's get some Bible. Yes. 29:31 And some people say, "Well, not the Old Testament." 29:33 For some reason, some people have an aversion 29:34 to the Old Testament. 29:36 I think, well, that's how it was under the Jewish system. 29:38 Let's go to the New Testament. I want to read... 29:40 I'm reading now Paul's writings in 1 Corinthians 6:9, 29:46 and listen to this list. 29:47 And what I want to read is... 29:49 What I want you to listen to, 29:50 as I read this list is Paul is not singling out 29:52 any particular challenge in any person's life. 29:55 He's putting all these... 29:57 It's inclusive, not exclusive. 29:58 And he's putting all of the categories 30:02 that he lists here as places 30:05 where you can be redeemed from. 30:07 Listen to this, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 30:09 "Do you not know 30:11 that the unrighteous will not inherit 30:14 the kingdom of God?" 30:15 And he says, "Do not be deceived." 30:18 That's what you're saying, 30:19 "Don't be deceived." 30:21 Listen to the list, "Neither fornicators, 30:23 nor idolaters, nor adulterers, 30:26 nor homosexuals, nor sodomites," 30:30 verse 9, now verse 10, "Nor thieves," look at... 30:33 He goes from, now, sexual sin to other types of sin, 30:37 "Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, 30:40 nor revilers, nor extortioners 30:44 will inherit the kingdom of God." 30:45 But he doesn't stop there. 30:47 How many did you count? Ten of them. 30:48 Ten, but some people single out one and say, 30:51 "No, this one is special. 30:52 Let's leave this one alone." 30:53 That's what's happening today. 30:55 But now, look at the next verse, verse 11. 30:56 And this is what you're going to talk about now 30:58 on the fourth R, 31:00 "And such were some of you. 31:04 But you were washed, but you were sanctified, 31:10 but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, 31:15 and by the Spirit of our God." 31:19 That's huge. 31:21 That's what you're saying, Wayne. 31:23 Why are we not saying that? 31:24 Yeah, exactly. We're not saying... 31:26 And can you imagine 31:27 if a thief come to our church and say, 31:29 hey, he's a thief. 31:30 We want him to be our treasurer. 31:31 And I say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 31:33 He just said he's a recovering thief, 31:34 why would we make him a treasurer, right?" 31:37 He could say... 31:38 Well, we're here, waiting for him to say is, 31:40 "You know that was what I used to do. 31:42 I've been so redeemed 31:44 that doesn't even come to my mind. 31:45 You can trust me 31:47 with the finances of the church." 31:48 Because the Apostle Paul, 31:49 what was he before he became 31:51 the strongest proponent in the New Testament? 31:54 He consulted to the persecution and the killing of Christians. 31:59 But when he met Jesus, such was some of that. 32:03 Amen. 32:04 Okay, now, let's go to the fourth R. 32:06 Yeah. 32:07 So I just want to put out quickly 32:08 that there are smokescreens 32:10 within our own denomination 32:12 to keep us from seeing what God really has to offer. 32:15 And so LGBT Christians or Adventists, even today, 32:18 put up what is called Queer Theology. 32:21 That we can go outside of Scripture 32:24 that we can go and do some historical background 32:26 to find out that 32:28 what God really had a problem with 32:29 were molesters and rapists, 32:31 and these kinds of things, 32:33 but that God doesn't have any problem with monogamous, 32:35 same sex relationships. 32:37 And again, this is, kind of, 32:39 what the Guiding Families book kind of goes down 32:41 that same type of smokescreen. 32:44 But when I go to Scripture alone, 32:47 and I believe that you can trust God 32:49 from beginning to end, 32:50 from Genesis to Revelation, 32:52 from first breath until last 32:55 that He offers me something so much more 32:58 if I walk with Him and surrender to Him. 33:00 Amen. 33:02 And so the fourth R... 33:06 Is the Rebuild. 33:09 In Rebuild, the Lord takes you, 33:12 and literally He does the work for you. 33:15 He makes you into someone new. Beautiful. 33:17 He doesn't say that, "I promised you 33:21 that I will give you opposite sex attraction." 33:23 But He does show that if we will go to His Word, 33:27 and if we combine this 33:28 even with mental health specialists 33:30 that are in agreement with God's Word, 33:33 that sometimes we can find out 33:34 some of the reasoning 33:36 for why we've had some of the weaknesses 33:38 that we have. 33:39 And when we do that, from... 33:41 You know, there's AA 33:42 and things outside of the church 33:43 for various types of problems, 33:45 drug addicts and various things. 33:47 But we should be coming inside the church, 33:50 where the true healing is, 33:52 where James 5:16 says, 33:53 "Let's confess our weaknesses to one another 33:56 and experience the healing that God has promised us." 33:59 So when you go to someone, 34:01 who might have a better understanding, 34:03 who is trained to help you to get in the mud 34:06 and wallow with you through the dirt to say, 34:08 "Hey, you know, let's look at that your childhood. 34:11 Let's look at various things along the way." 34:14 That when we begin to dissect some of those things 34:17 that we might, 34:18 a health professional 34:20 or a mental health professional, 34:22 somebody of the Word 34:24 maybe able to put tools in your hands 34:27 that help rebuild you as a person 34:29 to get all that Jesus has promised you. 34:31 I love that. 34:33 Why wouldn't you want everything that God intended 34:36 if you've surrendered and given your life to Christ? 34:38 Are you putting up a roadblock and saying, 34:40 "Oh, I only want to go this far. 34:42 I don't want anything more 34:44 or I don't believe anything more as possible"? 34:46 Or are you open to receiving 34:48 what God has in store for you? 34:51 I don't know. 34:52 Maybe that is somebody of the opposite sex. 34:54 Maybe it's not. 34:55 But if I don't discover it, 34:57 if I don't walk further along the path, 34:59 I'll never know. 35:01 And I want everything that Jesus has promised me. 35:04 That's beautiful. 35:05 We're all on a journey. 35:08 You know, honey, you know, that was my favorite scripture 35:11 in the Bible, 1 John 3:1-2. 35:15 It's so beautiful. 35:16 You know, 1 John 3:2, 35:18 "Beloved, now, we are children of God, 35:22 and it has not yet been revealed 35:24 what we shall be." 35:25 That's the journey you're talking about. 35:26 Yeah. 35:28 "But we do know that when He is revealed 35:29 we shall be like Him 35:30 for we shall see Him as He is." 35:32 So the Lord meets us where we are, 35:33 and He doesn't immediately reveal to us 35:35 what we're going to be. 35:37 But He says, "When I'm done," Philippians 1:6, 35:39 "He who has begun a good work will complete it." 35:41 Amen. 35:42 Okay, so that's what you're talking about? 35:44 Yes. Yeah. 35:45 And John 10:10, 35:46 "The thief comes, not but to steal, 35:48 to kill and destroy." 35:50 But what you're saying is, 35:51 "But I've come that you might have life 35:52 and have it more abundantly." 35:54 Amen. Am I hearing you say that? 35:55 Yes. So whether... 35:57 I've been studying, you know, recently about, 35:59 you know, the parable about the sower of the seed 36:03 and where the seed has fallen. 36:05 You know, if the seed falls on rocky ground, 36:09 and there's a certain amount of rebellion... 36:10 And you don't want... 36:12 God is not going to force you into anything you don't want. 36:14 That's right. 36:16 And so is the soil within me fertile 36:20 for what God wants to do? 36:22 Has He planted a seed in me that's going to grow 36:24 or have I stopped the growing? 36:28 Have I stopped watering the seed myself? 36:30 I have to be in this Word every day. 36:32 I need to be in the presence of Christ every day 36:35 in order to get the healing that He has promised me. 36:38 And so in ministry today, my focus is now, 36:41 kind of, switching to all that Jesus has promised. 36:45 And I'm not going to live in fear of the accusation 36:48 of conversion and reparative therapy. 36:49 But I am going to pull and hold up a big capital C 36:53 for the conversion of the heart 36:55 that Jesus intends for all of us. 36:57 And, you know, I used to be that 36:59 my focus was on leadership, which is really, 37:02 you know, where the book Guiding Families, 37:05 kind of, came from. 37:06 And I think that people were either ignorant, 37:12 or perhaps even willfully blind 37:15 to not want all that Jesus offers. 37:17 So that's why I wrote Line By Line again, 37:21 for the viewer. 37:23 And, you know, you can go to knowhislove.org 37:26 in order to get your copy of this. 37:28 You can also go... 37:29 I want you to have the Guiding Families book, 37:31 because I think it's important that you read the book, 37:34 read the two books together. 37:36 And you can go to adventsource.org 37:39 to get a free copy of Guiding Families 37:41 then read them together. 37:42 I can't make the this... 37:44 I'm not Holy Spirit Junior. 37:45 So I don't bring conviction upon your heart. 37:48 Only you and asking the Holy Spirit to guide you 37:52 in between these two books 37:53 can understand and see 37:55 what it is that Jesus has to offer all of us. 37:59 So my focus today is in providing an education 38:02 from God's trusted Word to parents, 38:05 to family, to pastors, and most of all, 38:08 to the person who struggles. 38:09 It's not that God is trying to turn you 38:12 into a raving heterosexual, 38:14 but that He wants your heart for Him. 38:17 He knew you before you were born. 38:19 He wants only the very, very best for you. 38:22 But if you have these brick walls up, 38:24 and He can't get through to you. 38:26 So yes, lots of things have been done 38:30 that are not good, 38:32 even from within Christianity today. 38:35 I think we're sharing with you yesterday 38:36 what my pipe dream is. 38:38 And my pipe dream is this. 38:39 I believe that is our church 38:42 should look towards the LGBT people 38:45 into their families and apologize 38:47 for only having had a statement on homosexuality, 38:53 and to say, "We haven't known how to minister to you, 38:56 but you are precious in God's sight. 38:58 And you are valued in God's sight 39:00 and we want only the best for you also." 39:03 And then the LGBT community or even LGBT Adventists 39:07 would step back and go, "Wait a minute, 39:09 I was not expecting an apology." 39:12 But humbling ourselves before God and saying, 39:16 "We accept your apology. 39:19 Could we come together at the foot of the cross? 39:21 Can we study this out together? 39:23 Can we see what it is that God does desire 39:26 and expect of me 39:27 so that I can be whole in Him?" 39:29 Amen. 39:31 That's well said, beautiful. 39:32 I can't even break in. That was so beautifully said. 39:33 No, you said it so beautiful. 39:35 Now in your book Line By Line, you have 21 testimonies. 39:40 Yeah. Why 21? 39:43 Amazing testimonies, why 21? 39:45 Well, I was just about finished writing the analysis, 39:51 and I was on my way to take shower one morning, 39:53 and God got my attention. 39:55 And I said, "You know, Lord." 39:57 I said, "There's a lot of people 39:59 that know Wayne Blakely's opinion." 40:00 I said, "This is not about me. 40:02 This is about You. 40:04 Would You give me something to help the reader know 40:07 that this is honoring and glorifying Jesus." 40:11 And I got this impression that, 40:12 "Well, Wayne, you know there's a lot of people 40:14 on the Adventist Church that just think, 40:16 you know, there's Coming Out Ministries 40:17 and there's you." 40:18 And that's basically all there is 40:20 and that's the narrow sight on this. 40:23 But when you know 40:24 that this is not a denominational issue. 40:27 This is a faith issue, 40:28 and it goes well beyond Adventism. 40:31 And there are multiple ministries 40:33 in the world today 40:34 about leaving the LGBT plus culture for Jesus Christ. 40:37 And He says, "Why don't you get their testimonies 40:40 and add them to your book." 40:41 So in the book, there are seven testimonies 40:44 from Adventists. 40:45 But there are 14 testimonies 40:46 that are in agreement with Scripture 40:48 that are from non-Adventists as well, 40:50 because we are God's people and God's people are universal, 40:54 certainly, not just from one denomination. 40:57 But you also deal with pornography too? 41:00 Yes. Yeah, they're... 41:01 One of the testimonies in the book, 41:03 particularly, Kezia, 41:06 who is with Coming Out Ministries, 41:08 and often you don't expect to hear this type of testimony 41:11 coming from a female. 41:13 And so she shares about her walk 41:16 within the world of pornography 41:17 and how it captivated her life for a very long time. 41:20 And then how God brought about freedom to her, 41:24 actually, through Coming Out Ministries, 41:25 which is an amazing testimony. 41:27 And I highly recommend Coming Out Ministries 41:31 for a resource of speakers and people 41:33 who are willing to speak out on redemptive ways, 41:35 to leave the LGBT world, 41:37 as well as from my own ministry, 41:39 I Know His Love ministries, who I'm... 41:42 I've spoken around the world on this topic, 41:45 to pastoral retreats and to churches today. 41:49 I think that it's something that 41:50 we need not hide from anymore. 41:52 These are current issues. 41:54 This topic has divided many churches, 41:56 most recently the Methodist Church, 41:58 but it's done the same with Presbyterian 42:00 and Lutheran and others. 42:02 And questions have come about 42:04 will it split the Adventist Church? 42:06 You know, it has the potential to do that 42:09 unless we get the education 42:11 that we should have in order to reach out and help people, 42:15 who are finding themselves in the struggle. 42:17 Go through those four Rs very quickly. 42:20 The first is Rebel. 42:22 Rebel, so basically, I'm fine just the way I am. 42:24 I don't need to do anything. 42:26 Okay, Resist. 42:27 Resist is well, I understand how God doesn't want me 42:32 to just be openly gay 42:33 and to be promiscuous and those kinds of things, 42:36 but He will honor my monogamous relationship 42:39 before Him. 42:40 Okay, Renounce. 42:41 Renounce is letting go of the world terminology 42:45 of being gay or LGBT, 42:47 and accepting an identity in Christ. 42:49 But now you, kind of, have this albatross 42:51 around your neck that you're going to walk 42:53 with these temptations and desires, 42:55 and you're just kind of stuck there. 42:57 You arrive at a point of walking with Christ, 43:01 but you're not necessarily looking beyond to see 43:03 what else He might have to offer, 43:05 which is in... 43:07 Rebuild. Rebuild. 43:09 And Rebuild is where I plan to stay 43:12 until Jesus comes 43:14 because I want everything that He promises me. 43:17 He who has begun a good work in you will complete it. 43:20 You know, if anyone is in Christ, 43:22 he is a new creation. 43:23 And in Isaiah 1:16 say, 43:24 "Cease to do evil, learn to do good." 43:26 And that's what you're talking about. 43:28 A lot of people have not been exposed to the learning. 43:31 The Bible even tells us that 43:32 "Parents train up your child on the way he should go." 43:35 And so we as pastors, when we baptize people... 43:39 And, honey, you know that we have a baptismal class. 43:41 We have a continual ongoing class 43:45 because there are some people that come in, 43:47 that come from different denominations, 43:48 different doctrine of beliefs, and they say, 43:49 "Okay, I understood then they'll say, 43:51 see you next Sunday. 43:52 I mean, see you next Sabbath." 43:54 And there's some who have been doing that for years. 43:56 And they say, "You know I have to be in that way 43:58 for a long time." 43:59 It takes a while to get it out of your head. 44:01 But they said they're learning that. 44:03 Am I hearing you say that? Yes. 44:05 Wait, wait, wait, after being 44:07 in the LGBT plus community for over 40 years, 44:13 I like this question, 44:14 have you struggled with your past? 44:16 Well, clearly, failure has indicated that, 44:20 yes, it has been a struggle. 44:21 I believe this that, 44:24 you know, none of us need to have entered 44:27 into the depths of sin. 44:28 And there have been many who have walked with God 44:31 throughout their entire lives, 44:32 and we know that that's possible. 44:35 But if you've been derailed and you find 44:38 that you have walked in the depths of sin, 44:42 it can be a real challenge when you walk back with God 44:46 because Satan's not so readily relinquishing you. 44:50 And so, today it is often a struggle 44:53 I'm reminded of how my past used to define me. 44:58 And so I have to keep reminding the enemy as like, 45:00 "I'm not there anymore. 45:02 I'm here with a new identity in Jesus Christ." 45:04 I love that. 45:06 Galatians 6:1, 45:07 the Bible is filled with redemptive scriptures. 45:09 Here's another one. 45:11 "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, 45:14 you who are spiritual, 45:17 restore such one in a spirit of gentleness, 45:21 consider yourself less you also be tempted." 45:25 Paul is talking about the frailty of humanity 45:27 but the brotherhood of redemption and restoration. 45:30 He says, "You're just as weak as he is, 45:32 don't think you're not. 45:33 But be spiritual when you work with this person, 45:36 help restore that individual." 45:37 Why is that not being taught in the context of 45:41 helping people in the LGBTIQ community? 45:45 You know, I've often heard today, 45:48 even in congregations today is like, 45:51 "Well, you know, I'm a sinner too. 45:53 And my, your sin is no worse than mine." 45:55 And so people aren't getting what God promises. 45:58 And we go to church and we hear each... 46:00 You hear messages, and you go to potluck 46:02 and it's just been a routine. 46:04 But I want to reach out to anybody 46:07 who thinks that they're lost, 46:09 and that they're not redeemable. 46:11 If you're sitting in a church pew today 46:13 and you struggle, or in a pulpit today, 46:16 and you struggle with pornography, 46:20 God still has His hand on you 46:22 and redemption is possible through Him. 46:25 Do not give up. 46:26 Reach out and talk to somebody often. 46:28 The question is, who do pastors... 46:30 How can... 46:31 Who does a pastor have that they can talk to, 46:34 otherwise they may get kicked to the curb 46:36 and alienated and pushed away? 46:38 Get in touch with Coming Out Ministries. 46:40 Get in touch with Know His Love Ministries. 46:42 Talk to somebody, 46:44 who will help you along the way, 46:45 who will pray with you, 46:47 who will encourage you and let you know 46:48 that God is not done with you. 46:50 This is... 46:52 We want to walk with people today 46:53 that are in the journey. 46:55 There can be stumbling along their journey. 46:57 If we were all converted and ready for Jesus to come 47:01 when we were baptized, 47:02 well we'd be in heaven already. 47:03 That's right. You know, but this is... 47:05 It can get a little dirty along the way, 47:08 but Jesus has answers and solutions. 47:11 And that's what sanctification is all about. 47:13 It is a growing, rebuilding process. 47:16 It has not yet been revealed what you will be, 47:19 but we know that when the Lord is done 47:21 it's going to be complete. 47:22 What are you thinking, honey? What about Queer Theology? 47:25 What is that? 47:26 So Queer Theology, you know, I mentioned... 47:28 I alluded to it a little bit earlier. 47:29 And there's lots... 47:31 There's even a Bible called, 47:32 The Queen James Version of the Bible. 47:33 Queen? 47:35 The Queen James Version of the Bible. 47:36 It's removed all the references to homosexuality 47:39 in order to prevent homophobia in the church. 47:42 And I'm like, "Well, if God wrote had His Word 47:45 written for Him under His divine pan, 47:47 I don't think that we need to be removing any text." 47:50 And I don't see that the texts that deal with homosexuality 47:56 to be clobber text but to be guardrails, 47:59 to keep us from falling off the cliff. 48:01 God wants to keep us in His care. 48:04 I also want to say to parents and loved ones out there today, 48:08 it's important to emphasize the power of prayer. 48:11 I think my parents must have gone through 48:13 a number of kneepads 48:14 over the course of 40 years, 48:16 because they didn't clobber me with, 48:20 "You're living a life that's wrong 48:21 and you're going to burn for it." 48:23 But they continued to love me 48:25 while they didn't endorse my life. 48:27 They reached out and showed love... 48:29 They showed love to me. 48:30 They showed love to my gay friends 48:33 that would come and spend time in their home. 48:36 And, you know, those prayers came and got me. 48:39 They paid off. 48:40 But today parents are praying 48:43 and they're wanting results tomorrow morning. 48:45 And, you know, God doesn't necessarily work like that 48:48 because He needs to wait upon the person 48:51 that is going to be receptive to the Holy Spirit, 48:55 letting the Holy Spirit work in their lives 48:57 as they're ready to receive Him. 48:59 That's right. 49:00 "Wait upon the Lord 49:02 and He will renew your strength." 49:03 Yes. 49:04 That's that waiting that a lot of us 49:06 are fearful of doing. 49:07 I want to also bring out... 49:09 If you were at a place where you're saying to people, 49:13 what is the next step in this rebuild process? 49:17 I want to, once again, 49:19 talk about the book Line By Line. 49:21 And let me just make the statement. 49:23 As a pastor in the North American Division, 49:26 we are in a pool of wanting people 49:30 to know Christ. 49:31 You know, when the Bible says, 49:33 "Come to Me all you who labor and are heavy laden 49:35 and I will give you rest." 49:36 Rest is for the person who was a thief, 49:39 an adulterer, a liar, a profligate, 49:42 whatever the category maybe, 49:43 struggling with drugs or alcohol, whatever it is, 49:46 and also LGBTIQ issues. 49:48 But what has happened in America, 49:50 and what's happened around the world, 49:52 is because we have been told that 49:54 as it was in the days of Lot, 49:56 which when the men showed, 49:58 tried to break down the door to get to the guest of Abram, 50:02 they wanted the men instead of the women. 50:04 And Romans 1 says, "Men with men doing that, 50:08 which is unseemingly, 50:09 and women burned in their lust one toward another." 50:11 Not Abram. Was it Abram? 50:15 I think Lot, my mistake. 50:17 Thank you, honey. Yeah. 50:18 And so when we look at those issues in the Bible, 50:20 we see that the Lord is not condoning any of that. 50:23 But the Bible is continually saying, "My yoke is easy. 50:26 My burden is light. I could rebuild you. 50:28 I could change your life." 50:29 If that weren't the case, we would have no gospel. 50:32 The gospel is good news, not fearful news. 50:35 How do you speak to that as we... 50:36 Before we go to the news break? 50:40 Well, you know, I, kind of, want to point out this is that, 50:44 you know, it's important that we, as individuals, 50:50 put our faith and our trust directly in the Word. 50:56 I know I grew up 50:58 really looking up to corporate entities. 51:03 And so I know that today that it's difficult... 51:06 You know, I think as a denomination, 51:08 certainly we've had some mistakes along the way, 51:11 but it becomes extremely difficult 51:13 to apologize or ask for forgiveness 51:17 for having made mistakes. 51:19 You know, we're... 51:21 Not everyone in every position within our denomination 51:25 has the ability 51:29 to not be 51:32 stepping off in a direction 51:34 that may not have been exactly what God intended. 51:37 And so I want to be sure to bring it to a point 51:40 that we're looking to Christ 51:42 and not always to, necessarily, 51:44 the literature that's in front of us 51:45 that makes sure that literature agrees with God's Word. 51:47 That's right. 51:49 And we're going to take a short break. 51:50 And on the other side of the news break, 51:52 we're going to have a few closing thoughts 51:53 about this vitally important topic. 51:55 Don't go away. 51:58 If you would like to contact 51:59 or know more about Know His Love Ministries, 52:02 you can do so in the following ways. 52:04 You can write to them at P.O Box 701, 52:08 Battleground, Washington. 52:10 You can also call them 52:11 at 360-936-8514. 52:16 That's 360-936-8514. 52:22 You can also visit their website 52:23 at knowhislove.org 52:26 That's knowhislove.org 52:30 You can also send them an email at 2knowhislove@gmail.com 52:35 That's the number 52:36 2knowhislove@gmail.com |
Revised 2022-02-21