Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY210018A
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00:01 As you're well aware,
00:02 we're living in unprecedented times. 00:05 Join us now for Today special program. 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Mending broken people 00:23 I want to spend my life 00:29 Removing pain 00:34 Lord, let my words 00:39 Heal a heart that hurts 00:44 I want to spend my life 00:50 Mending broken people 00:55 I want to spend my life 01:00 Mending broken people 01:15 Hello, friends, and welcome to 3ABN 01:18 Today where we are always 01:20 all about the gospel of Jesus Christ 01:22 sharing the good news of Jesus Christ 01:25 and His soon return. 01:26 This is the Three Angels Broadcasting Network. 01:29 So we're all about preaching the everlasting gospel 01:31 that's found in those three angels' messages 01:33 of Revelation Chapter 14. 01:35 So here today, and I just want to welcome you, 01:38 want to thank you for joining us, because we know 01:39 you could be doing anything else at this time, 01:41 but I want to encourage you don't change the channel. 01:44 Don't switch this program off because during this hour 01:47 we have a powerful story, 01:50 a life-changing conversion story. 01:53 I'm here with a dear friend 01:55 that I've just gotten to know a pastor 01:57 in the Seventh-day Adventist Church, 01:58 who's going to be telling us all about his experience 02:02 in the church and how he had a true conversion experience. 02:05 And he's also going to be leading and guiding us 02:07 and talking about how the message of righteousness 02:10 by faith transformed his experience as it has mine. 02:13 And I'm sure it has many of yours as well. 02:15 So you don't want to go anywhere. 02:17 But for the time being 02:19 before we come back and introduce 02:21 Pastor Damon Snead, 02:24 we're going to have a special musical number at this time. 02:27 And it's going to be brought to us 02:29 by Miss Tammy Chance. 02:31 And the song is, "I've Never Loved Him Better." 02:47 Since Jesus came and found me 02:50 And He put His arms around me 02:53 And all my binding fetters 02:56 Took away 02:59 Although I've loved Him dearly 03:02 And trusted Him sincerely 03:05 I've never loved Him better 03:07 Than today 03:11 I've never loved Him better 03:13 Than today 03:17 I've never felt Him closer 03:20 Along the way 03:23 And oh how sweet the feeling 03:26 When in His presence kneeling 03:29 I've never loved Him better 03:31 Than today 03:38 OH blessed friend supernal 03:41 My hope and joy eternal 03:44 Keep my soul till shadow 03:47 Flee away 03:50 Anoint me I would pray, Lord 03:53 Till ends this pilgrim's way, Lord 03:56 I've never loved Him better 03:58 Than today 04:02 I've never loved Him better 04:04 Than today 04:08 I've never felt Him closer 04:11 Along the way 04:14 And oh how sweet the feeling 04:17 When in His presence kneeling 04:20 I've never loved Him better 04:22 Than today 04:26 I've never loved Him better 04:29 No, I've never loved Him better 04:32 No, I've never loved Him better 04:34 Than today 04:43 Amen. 04:45 Sister Tammy Chance, it's, 04:46 she's a precious soul, has a beautiful voice. 04:48 I appreciate that song. 04:50 And, you know what? 04:51 I want to get right into our program here today. 04:54 And we have Pastor Damon Snead 04:57 from Wheel of Faith Ministries with us. 04:59 He's from Conroe, Texas. 05:01 In fact, you're the pastor of the Conroe 05:03 Seventh-day Adventist Church. 05:05 How you doing, Brother? I am doing well. 05:06 Thank you for having me. Amen. 05:08 And you know what, Pastor, you have come to tell us today, 05:10 you've come to talk to us about the power of the gospel. 05:14 And after just, you know, 05:15 I didn't know you before you came here today, 05:17 I met you for the first time, just a few minutes ago, 05:19 but after reading through, you know, 05:22 your story that you had put in writing for us, 05:24 just kind of a quick summary for us before you arrived. 05:27 After reading through this, 05:28 I felt like I was almost reading my own story 05:31 because I could relate to many of the things 05:33 that you know that you've been through 05:35 and that you have experienced. 05:36 But before we get right into that, 05:38 I just feel like it's important that we have a quick prayer 05:40 and ask the Lord to lead and guide our conversation 05:42 because I know there's someone watching right now 05:44 who the Lord is going to bless by this 05:46 and hopefully lead them 05:47 to a true, genuine experience with Jesus. 05:49 So let's have a quick prayer. 05:50 Father in heaven Lord, just want to take this time 05:52 to say thank You for the opportunity 05:54 that myself and Pastor Snead here have 05:57 an opportunity to talk about You, 05:59 to discuss how You have blessed him, 06:00 to discuss how You have transformed his life. 06:03 And he's going to spend this time now with us 06:05 Lord to unpack all of that in detail, 06:08 and to give You glory. 06:09 And that's what we're here to do, Lord. 06:11 So as we have this conversation, 06:12 as we have this interview 06:14 and we talk about the gospel of Jesus Christ, 06:16 may this message go out 06:17 to all of those who are watching 06:19 and may it bless someone 06:20 and lead them closer to Jesus Christ. 06:22 That's our prayer. 06:23 And we ask it in confidence 06:25 and in the name of Jesus Christ. 06:26 Amen. 06:29 All right, Pastor Snead. 06:31 Who is Pastor Snead? Where are you from? 06:33 I know we said Conroe, you're from, you know, 06:35 you pastor Conrad or Conroe, excuse me, pause, 06:38 Conroe Seventh-day Adventist Church. 06:40 Were you born there? Were you raised there? 06:42 Have you always been in Texas? Where are you from? 06:44 Well, I was born in Houston, Texas, right? 06:46 And then raised just outside of that 06:48 in a place called Cleveland, Texas. 06:50 And I spent my whole teenage years 06:54 into my early 20s there. 06:55 And then I moved off to Louisiana 06:58 where my dad's people are from, Southwest Louisiana. 07:00 I spent 15 years there, 07:03 then ended up back home in Texas 07:06 and moved right back to the same place 07:08 where I was from. 07:09 And ended up eventually getting into ministry and pastoring 07:12 and went around a little bit, left the Texas Conference, 07:16 went to the Oklahoma Conference 07:17 and then from there out West to California up at Weimar, 07:20 and then now I'm back home in Texas, 07:22 been here for about two years now. 07:24 Praise the Lord, a true Southern boy. 07:26 Yes. Just like myself. 07:27 I was born and raised in Northeast Arkansas. 07:29 And I can relate to all of that. 07:31 So praise the Lord. 07:32 Well, you know what? 07:33 I want to get right into your story 07:35 because I asked you earlier, 07:37 were you raised in the Adventist Church? 07:39 You said you were but, you know, you weren't, 07:42 you didn't really know, your family didn't really know 07:44 about this beautiful gospel message 07:46 or at least the Adventist faith 07:48 until, you know, maybe you were about nine or ten years old. 07:51 Tell us about how your family played a major role 07:54 in your early stages 07:56 and how they came into this faith? 07:59 So it's really interesting 08:01 when I look at a lot of families 08:03 from this part of the world, we all have similar stories. 08:06 Right. And that's the 70s. Okay. 08:08 So the late 60s, early 70s, 08:10 the Barron Brothers had been coming into Houston, Texas. 08:13 And then Halverson came in. 08:16 And so when Ron Halverson came into Houston, Texas, 08:19 that's when my family all began to convert, uncles, aunts, 08:23 my mother and my father, there was this excitement. 08:26 There's a video tape or not a video tape, 08:28 it's actually a cassette tape from back in them days. 08:30 And I can hear my, 08:33 myself and my little brother on the tape. 08:35 And you can hear in the background 08:37 Halverson and he's preaching about these animals. 08:41 Actually, when I was a kid, 08:43 I was waiting for these lions and leopards 08:45 to appear on the stage. 08:47 Right. 08:48 But looking back now, I realize he was preaching Daniel 7. 08:50 Sure, sure. 08:51 So that was what my family came into. 08:53 They were excited about the signs of the times, 08:55 the end of the world, 08:57 the enforcement of this false system of worship 08:59 and the second coming of Christ. 09:01 And so my whole family came in 09:03 that whole group of us, 09:04 you know, 15 or 20 of us came into the faith 09:06 at about that time in the mid-70s. 09:09 And so I woke up one day 09:10 and all of a sudden I was Adventist. 09:11 I was about nine or ten years old. 09:13 That's awesome. 09:15 So, you know, you mentioned Halverson 09:17 and the, I'm not as familiar with the Barron Brothers, 09:20 but certainly with Ron Halvorson, 09:21 these are powerful preachers, right? 09:23 These are evangelists 09:24 who do this full-time for a living. 09:26 So I can relate to the excitement 09:28 because that's basically how my family 09:29 came into the faith 09:31 is we heard this powerful evangelistic style message, 09:34 you know, and it has its place and it's a wonderful thing. 09:37 And it certainly hooked us. 09:38 And that seems like what happened to your family 09:40 as you were 19 years old? 09:41 Sure. Yeah. 09:42 We woke up one morning, 09:44 there's no Saturday morning cartoons. 09:45 I was sitting on the couch 09:47 and that began about a five or six year journey 09:50 is about as though I can remember 09:52 from there about 10 till about 15 or 16. 09:54 All right. 09:55 So you and your family pretty involved in the faith 09:59 and then what happened? 10:00 What's the next phase? 10:02 What's the next? What happened next? 10:03 Well, typical story. 10:04 Okay. 10:06 You're awaiting all these great events to take place 10:09 and looking back now, 10:10 I can see my family was excited, 10:11 but then life begins to happen. 10:13 You know, the end of time doesn't happen. 10:16 Right. 10:18 You know, the enforcement of worship 10:19 doesn't happen tomorrow and life begins to happen 10:21 and slowly but surely, 10:23 my family, like so many others in that time period 10:26 begin to drift away 10:27 and then three or four years into it, 10:30 they're out of the faith. 10:31 They're just living life. 10:32 They're not, they don't consider themselves 10:34 non Adventist, 10:35 but they're just not practicing no more. 10:38 Got you. 10:39 So you're, you know, you said four or five years, 10:42 so this is between the ages of, 10:44 I'm guessing what 10 and maybe 15, 16 years old. 10:48 So what was that like for you? 10:50 Because we, I know that adults, 10:52 you know, they're very influential, 10:53 my parents, my family, I'm sure your family, 10:56 you were just kind of going along 10:58 with the ride at an early age, 10:59 but what was it like for you 11:01 between those years of 10 and 14, 15, 16 years old, 11:04 going through all of the motions 11:06 and in this particular instance, 11:08 you know, especially with your family, 11:10 leaving the faith, 11:11 you know, what was it like for you? 11:14 You know, of course, 11:15 the only person that didn't leave really the faith 11:18 in that time was one of my uncles, 11:20 but my grandfather, so he kept me really, 11:24 he was the one I kept looking to. 11:26 And even at a young age, 11:27 I remember praying for my mother and my father, 11:30 my cousins, uncles, aunts. 11:33 So there was always that struggle, 11:34 always felt like they were going to be lost 11:37 and I always had that in me and that fear and that worry. 11:41 And so I kept, I continued to go to church. 11:44 We had some neighbors that were Adventists, the Leos, 11:46 Mr. and Miss Leo, they picked us up in an orange AMC Gremlin, 11:50 every Sabbath morning. 11:52 So they kept me connected in that way. 11:54 And I just remember always having this feeling 11:57 of worry and fear, 11:59 which would later would be why I ended up 12:01 getting into ministry more involved in my life. 12:03 But you have that, you realize that something's coming. 12:06 I believe that even as a kid, but to see my family begin 12:09 to just leave and evaporate was very disheartening to me. 12:12 Wow. 12:14 That's amazing. 12:15 So your family kind of disintegrates and leaves, 12:18 maybe it's you and your grandpa, 12:21 what happens next now for you? 12:23 Did you leave, or did you stay in the faith? 12:24 What would transpire after those years? 12:26 Well, high school, of course, in high school football 12:29 and sports and Friday nights and Saturdays. 12:31 So for a few years there in my own life, I just kind of, 12:35 I always had this knowledge, hey, you can't stay here long, 12:39 but you know how high school was. 12:40 Right. 12:41 And so, I got into the high school world 12:43 and left for a little bit, 12:46 even went to a Baptist church for time or two 12:48 with some other friends 12:49 and explored some other options. 12:52 And at that time, 12:53 the Cleveland Seventh-day Adventist Church 12:54 was building their brand new church 12:56 down there on 321. 12:57 And I had been passing this building, 12:59 this construction going on and on. 13:01 And every time I go by there, 13:02 something would just nod at me to go. 13:06 So I waited for this one particular afternoon. 13:09 I drove by there and just something compelled me 13:11 to pull over and just go look at the building. 13:13 So I pulled in there and no one was there. 13:15 So I got out of my car 13:17 and I was looking at this new Adventist building 13:19 and out from the back come Mr. and Miss Leo. 13:21 Okay. 13:22 And she said, "You need to come visit us." 13:24 And so I remember 13:26 I'd probably been out of church for a couple of years. 13:28 And I remember that next Saturday, 13:30 the next Sabbath morning, 13:31 I was getting dressed up and my mama said, 13:33 "Where are you going?" 13:34 I said. "To church." 13:35 How old were you at this time? I was 18 now. 13:37 Eighteen, okay. Eighteen at the time. 13:38 I was just like, "I'm going to go to church." 13:40 She's like, "To church?" 13:41 I said, "Yeah, they built a new church down there." 13:43 And I'll never forget this. 13:44 When I walked in the doors of that church, 13:46 that Sabbath morning, man, it was like home, 13:50 the Holy Spirit moved on my heart. 13:53 And that was it. 13:54 I knew that is where I belonged. 13:56 I didn't ever want to leave again. 13:58 So that's how I got back into the really into the faith. 14:00 Okay. 14:02 So we're leading up in your story 14:04 to something that happened at the age of 28, 14:07 but how, what was your experience 14:10 for the next 10 years? 14:11 Ten years. 14:13 So you're in the church. 14:14 You've come back home. 14:16 Now what? 14:17 Well, when I turned about 20, I moved to Louisiana. 14:21 Okay. 14:22 And so I went to a little church called the DeRidder 14:24 Seventh-day Adventist Church. 14:26 And there I got involved with about, 14:29 probably about the age of 21 or 22. 14:30 I became a Bible worker, literature evangelist really, 14:34 but wasn't making any money. 14:36 But it was my desire. 14:38 I thought that to be a good Adventist 14:39 I had to spread the message of keeping the law, 14:43 the Sabbath, you know, 14:44 the end-time events that we talk about with false worship 14:47 and who the beast is and what the mark is. 14:49 And the second coming 14:51 and the truth about the millennium. 14:52 And there's a, it's like a, I have a running, 14:55 it's not a joke, but it's a thing 14:56 that I say Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. 14:58 In other words, every Adventist knows what that means. 15:01 That's right 15:02 And so that was my burden to spread the truth 15:04 about Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, the little horn, 15:07 the truth of the law, the Sabbath. 15:08 Right. 15:09 And that's all, that's what I emerged myself 15:11 into for those 10 years of just knocking on doors. 15:14 I literally knocked on every door in DeRidder, 15:16 Louisiana in a space of four or five years. 15:19 And I was just going to do it myself. 15:21 And then I had a little book called Steps to Christ, 15:23 I would hand out to people. 15:24 I don't think I ever really read it. 15:25 It was just the handbook, you know, 15:27 just all life about Jesus. 15:28 And so that was during that 10 year period, 15:31 that is what I was so focused on was prophecy 15:34 and that Sabbath. 15:35 Right. 15:37 So it seemed like and I, 15:38 and I've heard this language use before, 15:40 and I know you have as well. 15:41 It seems like you were, as I was at one time, 15:43 we tend to sometimes get so focused on the rules. 15:46 We leave the ruler out of the equation, right? 15:50 And I can relate to that because my very first year, 15:53 year and a half, two years in the faith, you know, again, 15:56 I knew all of the fundamentals and, you know, 16:00 just for those who are watching at home, 16:01 these certainly have an important place 16:03 in our overall experience, you know, 16:05 the Sabbath, the law, 16:06 and all those things that you just mentioned, 16:08 they are important and they have their proper place, 16:10 but the Lord is going to lead you. 16:13 Something's going to happen when you turn 28. 16:15 And tell us a little bit about that, what happens? Okay. 16:19 And there may be something you want to tell us 16:21 about leading up to that, 16:22 but something transpires 16:23 or happens in your life at the age of 28, 16:25 that kind of begins to set you on a different course? 16:28 So... Well, 26, 27, 28, 16:32 I'm getting more involved and, you know, 16:36 I call it the list, the Adventist list, 16:39 Sabbath school director, Pathfinder director, 16:40 board meeting school. 16:42 But I mean just, you're so involved, 16:44 doing so much into me, that was, 16:46 that's what you need to do. 16:48 The more you get involved, 16:50 the better an Adventist you are, the more you're. 16:52 So by the time I'm at the age of 27 or 28, 16:57 my personal life is in total shambles. 16:59 Right. 17:00 I'm a great church person. 17:02 I was like, I think by that time I was a head deacon, 17:04 was Bible worker. 17:05 All right. 17:06 You know, I was just involved in the fabric of the church, 17:10 you know, then we had about a hundred members, 17:12 but my personal life was in total chaos. 17:15 I mean, I was I come, my mother comes from an Italian family. 17:19 So we had this very, 17:21 to me, it was just vociferous way of speaking, 17:23 but it was foul tempered is what you call, 17:25 a lot of hatred. 17:27 I was very physically abusive, to some extent, 17:30 mostly verbally abusive, just an absentee father, 17:35 a terrible husband in my life at that age, you know? 17:38 And it's weird because you wouldn't have known 17:40 it from my church life, 17:41 but my personal life was a total shipwrecked. 17:44 You know what, the life that I lived on the job site, 17:47 you know, in the construction world was much different 17:51 than the life I lived at church, 17:53 but I felt safe in that church life 17:56 because I had all these truths and doctrines and beliefs, 17:59 but these two worlds at the age of 28 are about to collide. 18:02 And I'm about to see that there is something 18:06 I tremendously missed. 18:07 You know, it's amazing as you're talking, 18:09 because I had somebody that say this to me recently, 18:11 and it really caught, 18:13 It's got some much of, some, somewhat of a comic feel to it, 18:18 but at the same time it's truth. 18:20 And that's why toward the beginning of this pandemic, 18:23 we're four or five months into this pandemic. 18:25 And somebody sent me this little message 18:27 and it was just kind of a funny little gag message, 18:29 but it said, well, I don't know why everyone has, 18:32 is fighting and complaining about wearing masks 18:35 when most of them have been wearing one most of their life. 18:38 Oh, yeah. 18:40 As you were sitting there talking about that, 18:41 that's what came into my mind is that, you know, 18:43 a lot of people, they come into the church, 18:45 they put their mask on 18:46 because that's kind of what's expected, 18:48 you be the church person you're supposed to be. 18:49 You go through the motions, you say the right things, 18:52 you do the right things 18:53 because you have to appear to be that good Christian 18:55 that everybody expects you to be, 18:57 but yet what's happening outside the church, 18:59 what's happening at home. 19:00 And that seems to be what you were experiencing, 19:02 what you were just describing? 19:03 Sure. 19:05 I had, my wife and I at the time. 19:06 My first wife, we ended up separated 19:10 going through a divorce just this mayhem 19:14 was happening in my life. 19:15 And then a man came down from California 19:19 and it was the first time I ever heard 19:22 of righteousness by faith. 19:24 Okay. 19:25 The very first little simple ideas I had of it. 19:29 And he began preaching about our truths, 19:32 all having to cluster 19:34 in this idea of Christ and His righteousness. 19:35 And I couldn't comprehend that. 19:37 How do you do that with state of the dead? 19:39 Or how do you do that with the come out of Babylon? 19:42 I couldn't fathom. 19:43 I couldn't even think of how to even write a sermon on 19:46 righteousness by faith, but he got my wheels turning. 19:49 He was there for a week and this brother really got 19:54 my heart turned towards 19:56 the conversion that righteousness by faith brings. 19:59 I began to look at myself and see my sin. 20:02 I began to understand repentance, conviction, 20:04 these deeper things. 20:06 And that was the watershed moment. 20:08 That first watershed moment in my life 20:10 came when I really started to understand 20:12 what is this everlasting gospel, 20:14 the impact that it has on my life 20:16 and things begin to change at that point. 20:18 So was it personal conversations 20:21 he was having with you? 20:22 Was it literature, he was sharing, you know, 20:25 maybe tapes or, you know, 20:26 what was it that he did that just kind of 20:29 sparked that understanding in your mind? 20:31 It was actually a seven part series on the Song of Solomon, 20:34 actually. 20:36 But through that, he was showing how righteousness 20:38 by faith is everywhere, even in the Song of Solomon. 20:41 And I just really began to see the love that my Savior 20:43 has for His bride, the unworthiness of His bride, 20:46 the condition of His bride. 20:48 I was like, whoa. 20:49 And I started seeing my life is shipwrecked 20:53 because I didn't know this. 20:54 No, I'm not blaming the pastors or the denomination. 20:58 I'm saying that I was so myopically focused on 21:02 which are, like you said, doctrines and prophecy, 21:04 which they are very fundamental to what we believe. 21:06 Sure. 21:08 But to the exclusion of this other 21:09 really is what tore my life to pieces. 21:12 You know, and so he, so this guy comes down 21:14 and I really began to look in a direction out 21:18 to bring all of my doctrines and prophecies through. 21:21 Okay. 21:22 So now you've had this big kind of light bulb experience now. 21:26 There's something else that you're missing, 21:28 you're starting to click in your mind. 21:31 Now, where does this go in your ministry? 21:33 Because you were a Bible worker before. 21:34 And was this around the age of 28 that this happened? 21:37 Twenty seven or twenty eight is when it happened. 21:39 And that started a time period in my life 21:43 where I started thinking, you know, 21:45 I don't want to be an electrician forever. 21:46 I love electricians. 21:48 But I was an electrician. Me too. 21:51 I was really, you know, 21:53 at that time I was happy being a lay worker, 21:55 driving, you know, in construction, 21:57 you go from state to state. 21:58 I followed the circuit, 22:00 the construction circuit at that time 22:01 when the oil industry was booming 22:03 and I was just going to wherever I went, 22:04 I did Bible work and held classes, 22:07 but now I was thinking maybe more formerly, 22:09 I want to actually be a pastor. 22:12 So I started thinking about how to, 22:15 how does that work? 22:16 What's the process? 22:17 And so, it wasn't until I was 32 22:20 that I started going to Southwestern, 22:22 but from 28 to 32, I went through, 22:23 went ahead and the personal life completely caved in. 22:26 The consequences of those years, you know, 22:29 so I'm repenting and this is what I tell people. 22:31 Yes, God will forgive you, but there's consequences. 22:34 And those early years, all in the church 22:37 ignoring the personal life, 22:39 just focusing on the doctrinal things it gave to me divorce, 22:44 estrangement from children. 22:46 I ended up moving back home to Texas, 22:48 you know, with nothing, 22:49 just nothing but my suburban and the clothes 22:52 on my back and my two eldest children. 22:54 And we started, I was living with my mother, 22:55 started all over again, but I was in school. 22:58 I started, I enrolled at Southwestern. 23:02 To make a long story short, I become, I ended up 23:05 getting about two years into my degree in the Texas Conference, 23:09 Elder Holly, God bless his soul, 23:11 and Elder Steve Gifford started working with me 23:14 as a bible vocational pastor. 23:16 And they put me in this little bitty, 23:17 small area out in Huntsville, Texas, 23:20 and that's where my personal ministry began. 23:22 Okay. 23:23 So now, your new adventure, your new ministry has begun. 23:28 So now what happens now with this new experience, 23:31 this new knowledge, a pastor and you're a pastor now, 23:36 now what happens? 23:37 Well, you would think that I would have learned my lesson. 23:40 I said, okay, I'm going to preaching this gospel 23:41 that converted me, but I don't, I'm young. 23:44 And I default back to my previous. 23:47 I thought that what the church needs is just some 23:50 really strong preaching on getting out there 23:52 and doing our work. 23:53 So for the first six or seven years of my ministry, 23:56 five years there in Texas, and then I moved to Oklahoma, 23:59 man, I was just preaching up a storm 24:01 on what it means to do our work 24:03 and our faithfulness to it, 24:05 and leading out in evangelistic series 24:07 and doing Bible studies and starting, 24:09 discover Bible schools, anything that, 24:12 that would get our people up and out 24:14 and working was my focus. 24:15 And then I preached, you know, like a lot of pastors 24:17 do eclectically through the scriptures, 24:19 just grabbing a new topic. 24:20 There's nothing cohesive, 24:22 nothing systematic about the gospel. 24:24 So God allowed me this time period 24:27 where I tried literally everything. 24:30 So this was the time period when Bill McClendon was doing 24:33 like massive work in Oklahoma and Tulsa, 24:36 the church was growing out there. 24:37 And so we, I went down there 24:39 and learned all these new skills and tactics 24:41 and, you know, just always doing something like that, 24:45 looking for the newest cutting edge 24:47 thing that would cause my church to grow. 24:50 And I would go out and do it and come back and implement it. 24:52 And it would be, you know, 24:54 it'll be some minor little things that we, 24:57 but it was just, everything was a total failure. 25:01 Okay. 25:02 So, but at some point through all of this failure, 25:07 you've got to have another light bulb moment 25:09 at some point that says, 25:10 okay, this isn't working, 25:12 evidently all that I've been doing, 25:13 I'm not really seeing any fruit from my labors, 25:16 you know, in a larger sense. 25:18 So now what step, what happens now? 25:20 What step next do you take 25:22 that kind of sets you on the right course 25:24 to where you are today? 25:26 Ketchum, Oklahoma. 25:27 Okay. 25:28 I take a call to Ketchum, Oklahoma. 25:30 And I think I'm going to be the next best thing 25:31 that they've ever had. 25:33 Right. You know, I'm a great preacher. 25:34 I could do that. 25:36 I can, you know, so I get there 25:37 and I'm going to take this place 25:39 and I'm going to take everything 25:40 that I've learned at this time. 25:42 My wife had come through, Mary Snead. 25:43 She had come through AFCO Amazing Facts. 25:47 So she was now, she was a Bible worker, we trained. 25:49 So we were going to put all this together 25:51 and about a year into it, 25:53 I sat at this board meeting and our treasurer 25:57 said to the board, 25:59 our tithe is worse than it's ever been before. 26:03 Our giving is at its lowest, 26:04 the people are disgruntled there. 26:07 We've got members moving to another church. 26:09 Our church is in the worst shape that it's ever been. 26:11 And I remember feeling the board looking at me 26:15 and I'm thinking, God, 26:17 I am in total failure again. 26:20 And I remember when that board meeting was over, 26:22 I sat there in that church sanctuary 26:24 and I told God, I said, I am done. 26:26 I've been doing this. 26:28 I mean, I've been going through this for, you know, 26:30 at that time probably 12 years in the ministry I'm finished. 26:33 I just want to go back to being an electrician, go back home. 26:36 Because at this point they're all pointing. 26:37 I mean, it was almost as if 26:40 the weight of it's on you, right? 26:42 You're our pastor, you're leading us. 26:43 Rightly so. Got to be your fault. 26:45 We're here we're in this low spot because of you. 26:46 Right. 26:47 And this is what I was upset with all the pastors before me, 26:50 when I was younger, why did my family leave the church? 26:53 You know, why are my kids not in the church? 26:54 Why my uncle and aunt leave the church? 26:55 Well, I'm a living example of why people leave the church. 27:00 Because I didn't have 27:01 that which everything has got to be about? 27:05 And so I sat there and I wept and wept. 27:07 And the next day my brother said, 27:08 "Hey man, I found these old tapes. 27:11 I want you to listen to them." 27:12 And I drove out there that weekend 27:15 and picked up this series of old cassette tapes. 27:18 And then this guy had been doing new stuff 27:20 and it was on righteousness by faith. 27:23 What I had heard 10 years before. 27:26 And I listened to this whole series 27:28 on righteousness by faith. 27:30 And I said, "Oh, man, this is it. 27:33 I am missing the gospel. 27:35 I am not presenting the third angel's message 27:38 with it right in its verity is the righteousness of Christ. 27:42 That's right. 27:43 What the sinner needs to know is that A they're sinful 27:46 and B that there's a righteousness 27:47 for them in the heavenly sanctuary 27:49 there to cover them. 27:50 And when you receive that, the spirit then ask permission 27:53 to show up, right? 27:55 I love what Ellen White says this, she says, 27:57 "Christ's righteousness is my credential 27:59 to receiving the Holy Spirit." 28:01 And so I had it always backwards. 28:03 I had all this work and stuff that I thought 28:04 I had to do to please God. 28:07 And once I started understanding the gospel 28:09 of righteousness by faith, 28:11 then I was on the track to the light bulb moment, 28:15 which is about to happen. 28:16 That's just the moment where I'm thinking, 28:18 okay, I need to regear everything. 28:19 Okay. All right. 28:21 So you've read you've listened to this series. 28:25 It's clicked with you, okay. 28:27 There's something here. This is it. 28:28 So now what happens next? 28:30 Because now you've got to take what you've learned, 28:32 what you've heard 28:33 and you've got to manifest it into something 28:34 that's going to be fruitful in your ministry? 28:36 So what happens next? 28:38 So what happens next 28:39 is Don Mackintosh in Weimar, California 28:42 because no sooner had I learned that, 28:45 we went to a Pathways to Health event. 28:47 Mary, she was doing a lot of work for them at that time. 28:52 And before COVID knocked all that out, 28:54 but that was a great ministry. 28:55 So I had went up there to help out as a chaplain. 28:57 And I ran across Don Mackintosh. 28:59 He says, "Hey, you ready to come to Weimar?" 29:01 And I'm like, California, man. 29:02 Like I'm already west far enough to Oklahoma. 29:05 Right. 29:06 You know, I get past that Red River, 29:07 I don't want to go any farther, but I ended up saying, 29:11 okay, you know I wanted to learn 29:15 the more of the health side of the ministry. 29:17 I thought that was something else 29:18 that I might add to the mix. 29:20 So we ended up going to Weimar with Don 29:23 and I became the NEWSTART chaplain there. 29:26 And then I was in horror because I realized 29:28 what they were asking me to do was 29:31 so you would have a group of people 29:32 from all over the world. 29:34 I mean, literally from every kind of a place 29:36 you can imagine come to the NEWSTART facility 29:39 and usually a group anywhere from 15 to 30. 29:42 And so my job for 18 days every morning at 7 o'clock 29:47 was to present some kind of devotional. 29:51 So I was like, so I had 15 lectures. 29:53 I'm like, what am I going to do? 29:54 I went through all kinds of stuff, 29:56 trying to figure out what am I going to do? 29:58 And then I, it just clicks, you know what to do. 30:02 That's right. 30:03 So then I start, I had about a month 30:05 or two to prepare before I actually went to Weimar. 30:08 And so I'm going through all the books 30:09 you can imagine on righteousness by faith. 30:11 You've got the hard, you know, right conservative view. 30:15 Then you got the more left liberal view, 30:16 all the stuff in between 30:18 all the crying babies and weeds 30:21 that you can get in through. 30:22 And I'm getting so confused on what to do. 30:24 And then I just sat down 30:27 and it was the Holy Spirit. 30:29 Someone, I had heard someone say before that Ellen White 30:31 was in the same situation with the message in her day. 30:33 Oh, my goodness. Yes. 30:35 Trying to keep people out of the hedge rows 30:37 and into the center of the message. 30:39 And so in 1892, she wrote a little book 30:41 called Steps to Christ. 30:42 Okay. So pause, Hit the pause button there. 30:44 Because everything you just said. 30:48 I think this is every minister's experience. 30:50 Even, you know, I'm a young minister, 30:52 but I've been in the ministry now for, 30:55 you know, almost 10 years now. 30:57 And so, this has been my ongoing experience, 30:59 the battle in my mind, you know, 31:01 growing from that early stage to where I am now, 31:06 it seems like every minister who's genuinely trying 31:09 to seek the Lord's will goes through this battle 31:11 of you're hearing that far right perspective and that, 31:14 you know, left, not trying to add politics, 31:16 it's not political conversation here, but again, 31:17 that ultraconservative versus that ultraliberal, 31:20 trying to find that happy balance 31:23 is not always that easy. 31:24 And it doesn't, it's not easy because we're always, 31:27 at least in my experience, 31:28 I was listening to other people, 31:30 you know, reading this book and reading that book 31:32 and reading that article or reading that 31:34 because you always are looking to other people 31:37 of more experience or of a higher intellect 31:40 or a higher intelligence in this area. 31:43 My experience came to the point to where I was just gleaning 31:45 from other men and trying to formulate this balance 31:48 perspective of what's right. 31:50 And, but you said something that's crucial. 31:52 You finally had to just, 31:54 and just listen to the Holy Spirit. 31:56 The Holy Spirit still works. 31:59 God's Holy Spirit still works. He wants to lead and guide you. 32:02 And I think that that's what was revolutionary, 32:04 even in my own experience, as I finally got to a point 32:07 in my life, it's like, I'm not, 32:08 I can't listen to any more sermons. 32:10 I can't read any more books. 32:12 I can't, not that those things are necessarily bad 32:14 because a lot of them are good, but Lord, 32:16 I need You to teach me. 32:17 I need You to show me, 32:18 as You said you would. 32:20 The Bible says that the Holy Spirit, 32:21 the spirit of truth will lead and guide us into all truth. 32:24 And so that seems to be the experience you had. 32:27 Here you are the Holy Spirit now is leading you 32:29 to that place in the middle, that happy balance. 32:33 Now take us from there? Yeah. 32:35 So I basically threw 32:36 all my books away because 32:37 I was more confused than ever. 32:39 And I realized when I went over to the library 32:41 I talked to, like she says, "Yes, 1892, 32:43 it was written to set this record straight 32:46 on what the steps to righteousness by faith is." 32:49 And so I just took that little book 32:51 and I tore it to pieces. 32:53 You know, I realized 32:55 that what I had in front of me was gold. 32:56 I used to just hand it out to people. 32:58 That's a Southern expression, tore the pieces by the way, 33:00 because someone may have thought 33:01 you actually literally tore. 33:02 You tore it up in a Southern way, 33:05 in a good way. 33:06 You know, you just peeled through it, 33:07 you looked through it, you studied it 33:09 from start to finish, fine-tooth comb, right? 33:11 Yeah, yeah. 33:13 And this is where Wheel of Faith comes from. 33:14 Right, I got you. Okay. 33:16 I didn't have, I needed a rubric to put it in. 33:17 So I just thought of a wheel 33:20 and a circle with these pins. 33:22 And I put what's the first step in righteousness by faith. 33:25 And, of course, chapter one is God's love. 33:27 And in chapter one, there is the cross of Calvary. 33:31 What is real righteousness, imputed righteousness? 33:34 You know, and so I went from the cross of Christ, 33:37 the second death to righteousness by faith, 33:40 in His righteousness. 33:41 The chapter two, the sinners need, 33:43 my righteousness is filthy rag. 33:45 My righteous is unequivalent. 33:47 It cannot pass the judgment. 33:49 That's right. I need a perfect righteousness. 33:52 So I just went right through sinner's need. 33:53 Then chapter three is repentance. 33:56 And when you get into chapter three repentance, 33:57 it's so easy to blow right over the most important, 34:00 one of the most important statements, 34:01 because you're thinking, okay, turning from sin. 34:03 But she says, before you can ever repent, 34:05 the sinner must come unto Me. 34:07 You come to Christ as you are 34:09 with all of your wretchedness. 34:10 If you understand that you have a need 34:13 that your sin is causing you trouble with God, 34:17 then you come to Christ as you are. 34:18 And she bases that on Matthew 11 34:20 that called come unto me. 34:22 And then after come unto me, now, conviction can take place. 34:26 And that comes from the Holy Spirit. 34:28 Now a real repentance, right? 34:30 Not a manufactured repentance. 34:32 Genuine. So explain that for a moment. 34:34 Because there's somebody watching who is like, 34:35 I repent every day. 34:37 What is that genuine repentance? 34:39 Yeah. Psalm 51, Psalm 32. 34:41 She uses Psalm 51 to say, 34:43 this is real repentance and no man can degenerate that. 34:46 Real repentance is an acknowledgement 34:48 of what you had done. 34:50 And the life of sin, you know, people say, well, 34:52 I repent of my sin, but what's sin? 34:55 God wants you to know this sin. 34:57 This is what it's done for you. 34:59 And this is what real repentance. 35:00 This is back at 28 in my conversion experience, 35:03 real repentance was God saying, Damon, 35:05 every time you yelled at your wife, 35:07 every time you screamed and hollered, 35:08 every time you threw this across the room, 35:10 real repentance was going through my life 35:13 and looking at everything 35:15 that God had brought to my mind. 35:16 And you're feeling that, that brokenness of soul 35:19 and then asking God to forgive me 35:21 and to cleanse me and to cover me. 35:23 That's what causes 35:25 the real desire for righteousness 35:26 is to see your unrighteousness. 35:28 That's what it's there for. 35:30 Then you reach out and cry out with Jacob's 35:32 grip on that righteousness, because I see mine, 35:35 that's the importance of repentance. 35:37 And then after repentance, she goes right into consecration, 35:40 which is baptism, really die into self, 35:42 what that really means. 35:44 You know, not just becoming a member 35:45 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 35:47 And it's true. And yes, it's true. 35:49 I accept these at that time, 27 fundamental beliefs, 35:52 but a dying to self is a dying in Christ 35:55 and a dying to the world. 35:57 And then you've just follow that flow 35:59 where she goes right out of that into when you come up 36:01 out of that water, now you receive 36:03 the gift of the Holy Spirit. 36:04 Now sanctification or the importation of that 36:07 righteousness begins and now the new life. 36:10 And then the reason why I put it on a wheel 36:11 is because really the work of the Holy Spirit 36:13 is to bring you right back to coming to me, conviction. 36:16 It's just, it's like... It's a daily experience, right? 36:21 I love that, wheel of faith. 36:22 That's really nice. 36:24 And so, and then, of course, on the wheel of faith, 36:25 I also bring in the centrality of the law 36:28 to the gospel because that is important to an Adventist. 36:31 How does the law work in relation to the gospel? 36:35 That should be important to a Christian. 36:36 Yeah, period. Absolutely. 36:38 But yet, you know, even when you say that, 36:40 especially within the Adventist Church, 36:42 but you know, in many people's lives, 36:44 they have placed the law at the center 36:47 of their gospel experience, right at the center 36:49 of their Christian experience and that, you know, the law, 36:52 while it plays a major role, it's not the center, right? 36:56 So yeah, go ahead and continue through. 36:57 Right. No. 36:58 So when I developed that and I put it out 37:01 at my first session, 37:04 I had a call for baptism, 37:06 something they didn't do at the NEWSTART program, 37:07 very rarely. 37:09 You know, it was a health thing. 37:11 So I did this 15 part series or 11 part series. 37:15 And at the end I had a call. 37:17 So in 18 days, you're not going to get a lot of, 37:21 you know, it's very difficult to get people to get them 37:24 through the doctrines and all that stuff. 37:25 But I had a lot of people that had Adventist background. 37:29 And I, that first time I made a call I had one baptism, 37:32 right? Then the second session, 37:36 two baptisms, and then to make a long story 37:39 short over about a two and a half year period 37:41 that I was there we had a hundred baptisms. 37:44 Wow. 37:45 Now here's the part, 30 of them were new baptisms. 37:48 But the part that floored me was the 70 rebaptisms. 37:52 This is people that had the experience 37:54 like I had, who had left the Adventist Church. 37:57 And the first time they really heard 37:58 the message of righteousness by faith, the gospel, 38:01 how even all of our doctrines are funneled through that, 38:04 our prophecies are funneled through the gospel 38:07 when they heard that, they were coming into that pool, 38:11 that baptismal pool came alive. 38:12 That's amazing. 38:13 And that's when I realized I just stumbled 38:15 on to something. Okay. 38:16 So something is I've never seen that many baptisms, 38:20 at least as me, as a pastor. 38:22 And I knew then that I had stumbled on some gold. 38:26 This is like working where all this other stuff, 38:29 goodness gracious. 38:30 you have one baptism every two months 38:31 or maybe every six months, or once a year. 38:34 Now I'm staying in the water. 38:37 And so I met a division president 38:38 who came to the program. 38:40 He says, young man, 38:41 he was on his way out. 38:42 He's retiring. He wasn't a president. 38:44 He was one of the vice, something of the division. 38:47 He was on his way out. 38:49 And he says, "If you want to see if this really works, 38:51 you need to take a church 38:53 and see how it works 38:54 in an Adventist Church setting." 38:57 So what I started doing was in between the NEWSTART 39:00 sessions, because I would have like two weeks in between, 39:02 I started taking calls to go preach in other churches, 39:06 you know, and so I have some slides 39:10 on what happened at Weimar. 39:11 Let's look at some of them. I want to tell you about those. 39:13 All right. So what's happening here? 39:15 Okay. So this, this, the next three 39:17 or four slides, this is people. 39:19 So this is young. 39:21 This is a young woman from Weimar. 39:22 Here's another person. 39:23 This is Maggie Belau. 39:26 I know Miss Maggie Belau. 39:27 Yeah, she... Now, she's a strong Seventh-day Adventist. 39:29 She's not a backslider. 39:31 But this woman saw the gospel in a deeper way. 39:34 And she, she represents a lot of people that I meet. 39:38 They got the gospel, 39:39 but they never saw the implication 39:41 of the depth of it. 39:43 And they want to be baptized into the fullness 39:44 of this gospel message. 39:45 And so this young lady right here was one of my favorite. 39:48 She was a, had the similar story, 39:52 that idea had been raised in the church. 39:54 You know, was a hard worker there at Weimar 39:56 and a Bible worker just doing different things. 39:59 And when she heard the fullness of the gospel, 40:02 she, that's what she wanted, to be rebaptized. 40:06 It's amazing. 40:07 And this last one, this lady was a non-Adventist. 40:09 And she came into the... 40:11 She had some back, Adventist background. 40:14 I caught her up on all the doctrinal thing, 40:16 but we was on the gospel is what brought her to baptism. 40:19 And so I, when I saw all that working, 40:23 I decided to go try it 40:24 in different Adventist churches. 40:25 And so I started doing this little, 40:27 I made them 11 day lectures. 40:29 So we'd start on a Friday 40:31 and end on the following Friday. 40:32 On Sabbath, we have three in a row. 40:34 And I watched the same thing happened 40:37 in every church that I went to, 40:39 whether it was in an Indiana, there at Grass Valley 40:42 or wherever we went with this, 40:46 it was the same thing. 40:48 There was always a number of new baptisms, 40:51 but a greater number of rebaptisms 40:54 of Seventh-day Adventist saying, 40:55 "I've never seen the gospel in the light 40:58 of righteousness by faith." 40:59 Amen. 41:01 And so then we went to Curaçao. 41:02 This, I've got a slide up here. 41:03 All right. So this was interesting, 41:05 because we've decided to go, 41:07 okay, we go international with it. 41:08 Let's see what happens in an outside 41:10 of American frame work. 41:12 And so here we went to the Dutch Caribbean. 41:15 Okay. And it was, 41:17 I was doing a health event there at the hospital. 41:20 And so I did the same 11 night lecture series there. 41:23 I think I had to shorten it up a little bit. 41:25 But anyway, at the end I was told, 41:28 don't give a call for baptism 41:29 because down here in the Caribbean, 41:31 we don't believe in rebaptism. 41:33 And so, or people were unfavorable to it. 41:37 It was something you only did 41:38 if you had left the church and grow sin. 41:40 And so I was really struggling. 41:42 I said this is part of my ministry. 41:45 I've got to make, let me at least make the call. 41:48 And so I'm at the end of the series, 41:50 I made the call for baptism and we had 30 people 41:53 come forward for rebaptism. 41:55 And the problem was though 41:57 the president didn't want to okay the baptisms. 41:59 Oh, no. Okay. 42:00 So he's like, no, we don't do that down here. 42:03 And so I took him through the biographies 42:06 where Ellen White was rebaptized. 42:08 So at 17, she was baptized as a young Methodist girl. 42:10 And then at 31 or 32, 42:13 when she had a fuller understanding of the gospel 42:15 and of the three angels' message, 42:17 her husband rebaptized her. 42:19 So I go through this with him 42:20 and I talk about it and he's like. 42:22 Okay. I'm in but I want to help. 42:24 So that's the pictures of him. 42:25 That's the conference president. 42:27 Let's pull that back over here. 42:28 So this is you and the Let's see... 42:30 if we can get that previous picture back up there. 42:32 So this is you and the conference president. 42:34 Yes. He's to the left there 42:36 and he's in there. 42:37 So he wants to help baptize. 42:39 So he is helping me rebaptize 42:41 all these church members. 42:44 And so I, at this point, I know 42:48 that this message of righteousness by faith, 42:50 it is a simple message. 42:52 Gospel. 42:53 Right, any clog kicker like myself can preach it. 42:55 Anybody can preach it. 42:57 Absolutely. 42:59 Anybody can promote this gospel 43:00 and it's always going to do this same work. 43:01 It's always going to do this work. 43:03 Okay. So let's kind of dial back here for a moment 43:06 because you quickly walked us through 43:09 this Steps to Christ where this wheel of faith idea 43:12 kind of manifested itself and came about. 43:15 So now as a pastor, you've been implementing this 43:19 in your own church. 43:22 Have you had any experiences with challenges along the way? 43:25 Perhaps, maybe some church members who've been in 43:28 the church for a long time who said this isn't the way, 43:31 or I don't agree with this. 43:33 Have you experienced any challenges along the way 43:35 in presenting, you know, implementing these methods 43:38 in your new ministry? 43:40 Yeah. Elder Moyer, the Oklahoma 43:42 conference president, when I first told him 43:43 that I was thinking about preaching this, 43:45 he told me be very careful young man. 43:48 He goes you should, but I'm just going to tell you, 43:51 my conference president told me 43:52 this years ago, be careful. 43:54 So I took that lightly and where I'm at now, 43:57 I want to be careful 43:59 because some of this is still fresh, 44:00 but I also want to be honest, 44:02 wherever I've ever preached this, 44:04 there is also a backlash to it. 44:06 There's also a resistance to it. 44:10 In Conroe, I've been here two years. 44:12 I've taken the wheel of faith as a backdrop. 44:15 And I have preached the Elijah message, 44:17 12 chapters of Daniel, the sanctuary, everything flows 44:21 together so beautifully 44:23 that we, that typically it's disconnected stuff. 44:27 The sanctuary is over here. 44:28 Daniel's over here, Revelation's here. 44:29 The Book of Hebrews is here. 44:31 When you take the message of righteousness by faith, 44:33 and that's all that the wheel of faith is. 44:35 And you take that matrix, that rubric, 44:37 everything that we believe fits together so beautifully. 44:41 But like you said, one of the things that I've had 44:43 is that there are people that just don't have 44:45 the stomach for it, because it is 44:47 the true and faithful witness to Laodicea. 44:49 It is the shaken message. 44:51 And when you preach it, 44:52 you are going to have people that rebel against it, 44:53 don't like it, don't want to hear it for various reasons. 44:56 And so, we've gained a hundred people at Conroe, 44:59 but we've lost a 20- 25 people. 45:04 They went somewhere else because it's just not. 45:08 And you know, and that's, and it's sad to think 45:10 about that because you don't want that to happen. 45:12 But it's just the reality that, 45:15 you know, again, as I was brought in, 45:17 I was taught this very hardcore, 45:19 very firm, you know, just kind of 45:23 doctrinal related, you know, 45:25 bullet point messages. 45:26 You know, go tell them about where they go when they die 45:28 and make sure they understand and go tell them 45:30 about how they've got to keep the seventh day Sabbath 45:32 and, you know, teach them the importance of the law. 45:35 You know, really teach them that investigative judgment. 45:37 Let them know about 1844. 45:39 And so even as a, even early on in my ministry, 45:42 as I'm trying to learn how to become an evangelist, 45:45 that seemed, it seemed to me 45:46 that that's what my ministry had become was 45:48 this kind of bullet-pointed, all right tonight 45:50 I'm talking about this, and we've got to really explain 45:52 that and talk about this. 45:54 And so it became all of these individual messages, 45:57 again, which are great. 45:58 The beauty of the message is great, 46:00 but kind of like what I said at the beginning, 46:02 I was, I felt like 46:03 I was teaching the rules 46:05 rather than the ruler. 46:06 And if you don't have, 46:07 if you're not teaching bringing them to Christ first, 46:10 the rules and all those other things, and the messages 46:13 that, you know, all those individual doctrinal messages 46:15 aren't going to mean anything to someone 46:17 if they don't have a personal relationship with Jesus. 46:19 So for me, you know, for me, you know, just hearing 46:22 what you're saying, for me, 46:23 what revolutionized my experience was 46:25 I was introduced to the series called all about Jesus 46:28 Revival seminars by Lee Venden 46:30 and his father was Morris Venden. 46:32 And I watched the series 46:33 and it just revolutionized my thinking. 46:35 It's not a complete abandonment 46:37 of our doctrines and our beliefs, but certainly 46:40 what it does is it says, why do we have all of these 46:43 beautiful doctrines? 46:44 It's because of the righteousness of Christ. 46:46 And if you can approach it from the perspective 46:47 of the righteousness of Christ, 46:49 then your ministry is of no avail. 46:51 You're not going to penetrate the hearts and minds of people. 46:53 And it's amazing that you talked about the 46:56 rebaptism because at every, almost every single one 46:58 of my evangelistic series, 47:00 we would have new converts. 47:02 We would have non-Adventist come into the church, 47:05 but in every, almost every single one of my series, 47:07 the vast majority of rebaptism was a whole lot more 47:12 than the number of new baptisms, 47:14 because people come up to me and say, 47:15 man, I've never heard the sanctuary 47:17 from that perspective, or I've never seen 47:20 our doctrines from the perspective 47:21 of righteousness by faith. 47:23 And so, I can completely relate to what you're saying. 47:25 Right, because the doctrines are protective truths 47:28 to righteousness by faith. 47:30 State of the dead for example, 47:32 stand-alone topic, it's true. 47:34 The proof text that we use, 47:35 but there is life only in Christ, 47:37 and you can only have life if you have righteousness 47:39 and righteousness alone is in him. 47:40 So that teaching that we try to correct out 47:42 in the Protestant world is to protect the gospel, 47:45 you know? And you think about how exciting it is for pastor. 47:50 You know, usually you sit down with Bible studies 47:52 or you do an evangelistic series, 47:53 within three or four nights you're at the Sabbath, 47:55 you're at the law and you lose people. 47:57 But if you have sat down with people 47:58 and brought them through the gospel 48:01 and they're converted when they show up 48:02 at your meeting or they're converted before 48:04 you ever get to the Sabbath. 48:05 So I don't do, we do not do, 48:07 at my church we're doing a training program right now. 48:09 I'm actually training our church 48:11 on how to go out and do these themselves, 48:13 how to find it in the Bible themselves. 48:16 And we will not do doctrines or prophecy without the gospel 48:20 first or mingling it through at the same time, 48:23 because that is the power of God. 48:25 He says, "The power of God unto salvation 48:27 is through the gospel, 48:28 through this righteousness of God." 48:30 In Adventists, we have got to start 48:32 bringing that gospel to the forefront and bringing 48:35 everything in through it. 48:37 And this is my burden 48:38 because this is where families are going to be healed. 48:40 This is where divorces 48:41 are going to stop in our church. 48:43 This is where churches are going 48:44 to start to get along. 48:45 This is where churches are going to finally start 48:47 to go out and do their work is win this conversion. 48:48 It's where our young people, 48:49 we're going to be able to retain our young people 48:52 because our young people are leaving 48:54 out the back door and not coming back. 48:56 And it's just amazing how much our young people 48:58 are just leaving in our church. 49:00 We need those young people. 49:01 They're the next generation, but they're not hearing 49:03 the true righteousness of Christ 49:05 righteousness by faith gospel. 49:07 We think it's an old Victorian doctrine. 49:09 And so we want to default to entertainment, 49:11 or we default to this new mode 49:13 that's out there or this new crusade to fight. 49:15 No, bring them this way, give it, 49:17 at least give it a try and watch what your youth, 49:20 because in my church right now, our youth are coming 49:22 to our training events. 49:24 Our youth are excited, not all of them, 49:26 but there is a segment of our youth 49:28 that are sitting down with their Bible 49:30 going through, what does this mean, 49:32 righteousness by faith. 49:34 That's right. 49:35 And I just want to say just really quickly, 49:37 and I'm sure, Pastor, you can reiterate this as well. 49:39 You know, as powerful as this true gospel message is, 49:43 it is not going to win everyone. 49:44 It didn't matter how well or how awesome 49:47 of this you present. 49:48 You know, this is, it's a personal decision. 49:50 People have to make the personal 49:51 decision to follow Jesus. 49:52 And so I've really enjoyed our conversation. 49:55 And anyway, as you were speaking there at the end. 49:57 It reminded me of, you know, Ellen White says, 49:59 and I can't remember if it's in Steps to Christ 50:01 or not, but she says somewhere in her writings 50:03 that in no other clearer place is salvation 50:05 made more simple than in there in John Chapter 3, 50:08 when Jesus is talking to Nicodemus. 50:10 And I go back to that chapter. 50:14 And the revolutionary point 50:15 there that just really stands out to me 50:17 is, you know, He's having this conversation. 50:18 He says, Nicodemus, you know what? 50:20 You've got to be born again." 50:21 What? I've got to go back in my mother's womb. 50:22 No, no, I'm talking about spiritual things. 50:25 And then the real breaking moment is not John 3:16, 50:28 which most people hold on to, 50:30 it's that, it's the few verses before I believe it's verse 14 50:32 where he says, "As Moses lifted up the serpent 50:35 in the wilderness, 50:37 so shall also the Son of man be lifted up." 50:39 Brother. 50:40 What is he doing? He's pointing to the righteousness of Christ. 50:44 Which is, keep your eyes 50:47 on that sanctuary in the heavens. 50:48 It truly is. 50:50 Wheel of Faith Ministries. 50:52 So I love that, Pastor. I appreciate it. 50:54 We were actually coming down 50:56 to the last few moments of this. 50:57 We have just a couple of minutes left. 50:59 We're actually going to put up an address roll 51:01 in just a moment and how you can contact 51:05 Pastor Damon Snead here and Wheel of Faith Ministries. 51:08 Perhaps, maybe you have questions, 51:10 perhaps you want to support the ministry, 51:12 donate to his ministry. 51:13 Maybe you just want to connect with him and say, 51:14 "Hey, I'm a pastor. 51:16 I'm a Bible worker. I'm a leader at my church. 51:19 I want to be educated. 51:20 Can you point me in the right direction?" 51:21 And so, we're actually going to put up 51:23 that roll right about now. 51:24 So here's how you can contact 51:26 Pastor Damon Snead at Wheel of Faith Ministries 51:31 Wheel of Faith Ministries seeks to train and equip members 51:34 to preach and teach the gospel 51:37 in all its components, 51:38 so that each church may experience that long awaited 51:41 return to primitive godliness. 51:44 To find out more, just visit their website 51:47 WheelOfFaithMinistries.org. 51:50 That's WheelOfFaithMinistries.org. 51:54 You may also call them at area code 51:56 (832) 293-2855. 52:00 If you'd prefer to write, their mailing address 52:03 is Wheel of Faith Ministries, 52:05 212 Valley Drive, Conroe, Texas 77303. |
Revised 2021-04-29