Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY200034A
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00:01 As you're well aware,
00:03 we're living in unprecedented times. 00:05 Join us now for today's special program. 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Mending broken people 00:23 I want to spend my life 00:29 Removing pain 00:34 Lord, let my words 00:39 Heal a heart that hurts 00:44 I want to spend my life 00:50 Mending broken people 00:55 I want to spend my life 01:00 Mending broken people 01:15 Hello, friends, welcome to 3ABN Today. 01:18 My name is John Lomacang. 01:19 Thank you for taking the time to tune in. 01:22 We have a very exciting topic today. 01:25 If you've joined us before you know that 01:26 we are very strong on talking about 01:29 what the Bible teaches, 01:30 but today we're gonna take that to another level. 01:33 We've always attempted 01:34 to keep our topics Christ-centered, 01:36 but today intentionally, we're gonna talk about 01:38 how to make tough doctrines centered on Christ, 01:42 how to do that intentionally. 01:44 And today we have two wonderful guests 01:46 that I'll introduce to you in just a moment, 01:48 but you might wanna hit the record button right now 01:50 if you are interested in studying the Bible 01:54 and trying to find out 01:55 how do I handle difficult topics, 01:58 topics that can sometimes be divisive 02:00 in the minds of those listening, 02:02 sometimes topics that people 02:03 might say that's just really not necessary. 02:05 How can I make the focus totally on Christ? 02:08 Today, we're gonna talk about that, 02:10 but before we get to that, 02:12 thank you for your prayers 02:13 and your financial support of this network 02:15 as we continue going and growing, 02:17 getting ready for the coming of the Lord. 02:19 Everything you do for this ministry is greatly 02:22 appreciated, including your prayers. 02:25 Before we introduce our guests, 02:26 we have some wonderful music 02:28 by a good friend of mine, Stephanie Dawn, 02:31 who always blesses my soul. 02:33 Now she's gonna bless yours 02:34 as she sings a song, "O Glorious Love." 02:57 In my darkness 03:00 Jesus found me 03:05 Touched my eyes 03:08 And made me see 03:14 Broke sin chains 03:17 That longed had bound me 03:22 Gave me life and liberty 03:31 O glorious love 03:33 Of Christ my Lord, divine 03:38 Who gave Himself 03:41 To save a soul like mine 03:46 Through all my days 03:49 And then in heaven above 03:55 My song will silence never 03:59 I'll worship Him forever 04:03 And praise Him 04:05 For His glorious love 04:17 Oh, amazing 04:20 Truth to ponder 04:24 He whom angel host attend 04:33 Lord in Heaven God's Son, 04:37 What wonder 04:40 He became 04:43 The sinners friend 04:49 O glorious love 04:50 Of Christ my Lord, divine 04:56 Who gave Himself 04:58 To save a soul like mine 05:03 Through all my days 05:05 And then in heaven above 05:11 My song will silence never 05:15 I'll worship Him forever 05:19 And praise Him 05:21 For His glorious love 05:29 And praise Him 05:31 For His glorious love 05:47 Thank you so much, Stephanie. 05:50 And also thank you, Dad, 05:51 for accompanying you 05:53 on that wonderful piece of glorious love. 05:55 Well, that's what we're talking about, 05:56 the love of Christ. 05:58 You know that a lot of people 05:59 look at the Bible as just this book 06:00 that is a lot of rules and regulations 06:02 and Christ often get eclipsed 06:04 by what Matthew said or Mark said 06:06 or what Revelation says. 06:08 Well, today, we're gonna put Jesus 06:10 where He needs to be, front and center. 06:12 And our guests today are here to talk about 06:14 how to make that happen in your attempt to share Christ 06:18 and doctrines together. 06:19 Pastor David Klinedinst, good to have you here today. 06:22 Thank you. Yes. 06:23 And tell us briefly where you're from 06:24 and what you do right now? 06:26 Well, I'm originally from York, Pennsylvania, 06:28 where I grew up the first 20 some years of my life. 06:30 And after 20 years of ministry, 06:32 I now serve as the Evangelism Director 06:33 of the Chesapeake Conference. 06:35 Okay. 06:36 That's the closest I've been to home in 20 years. 06:37 Okay. Are you said York? 06:39 I know that Pennsylvania has two things 06:41 in common chocolate and railroads. 06:43 And the York Peppermint Patty, 06:45 is it possible to come from York, Pennsylvania? 06:46 I think so. Yes. 06:47 Okay. You get the sensation. 06:50 That's right. Good to have you here today. 06:51 Thank you. Sensational. Thank you so much. 06:52 We gonna talk about the sensational Christ today. 06:55 And also Pastor Joseph Ikner. 06:57 Good to have you here, my brother. 06:59 Glad to be here. 07:00 Yes, we had a chance to share 07:02 some of the same territory in St. Louis. 07:04 Yes, yes, we did for a while. We did for a while. 07:06 And give us a little bit about 07:07 your background where you're from, 07:09 what you do right now. 07:10 So I am originally from Cleveland, Ohio. 07:13 Okay. 07:14 I work in Central States Conference, 07:15 most specifically in Kansas City, Missouri. 07:18 Well, I pastor the Linwood Boulevard SDA Temple, 07:21 fabulous church, 07:23 and I serve as the area coordinator 07:25 in Kansas City for our pastors 07:27 and also as prayer ministry coordinators 07:29 for Central States. 07:30 Good to have you both here. Thank you. 07:32 Well, I'm gonna dive right into the topic. 07:33 We're talking about discover Bible prophecy 07:37 and particularly making Christ 07:39 the center of all these 07:42 difficult topics and evangelism. 07:45 Just kind of walk us through that. 07:47 How did you even become interested 07:50 in getting to that place 07:51 when people oftentimes preach the doctrines, 07:54 but sometimes Christ is left in the background? 07:57 Give us how that inspiration came to you? 07:59 I can tell you one specific story 08:01 that just burned it into my mind. 08:03 And that was when I lived in Nebraska. 08:06 And we were holding an evangelistic series 08:08 in actually the North Platte area. 08:10 And I remember at the end of that evangelistic series, 08:12 a lady came out on the last night 08:15 into the foyer and said to me, 08:17 "I wanna thank you for making this 08:18 so Christ-centered. 08:20 If I would have known it would have been like this, 08:23 I would have invited my friends." 08:25 And so when she said that 08:26 I didn't know whether to be happy or cry. 08:28 I mean, I was grateful for that kind words 08:30 that she said, but it also told me that 08:32 she didn't invite her friends and I asked her well, why. 08:35 And I remember she told me 08:37 I have brought my friends 08:38 to evangelistic meetings before. 08:40 And as the speaker was up presenting things 08:42 in a very negative way 08:44 that if you don't know these truths, 08:45 that you are less of a Christian. 08:47 I just slumped down in my seat. 08:49 It was embarrassed 08:50 for how my friends were feeling. 08:52 And when she told me that story, 08:54 I have made the commitment in my mind 08:55 that we will always be faithful to biblical truth, 08:59 but we will seek to present it in a Christ-centered, positive, 09:03 and relational way. 09:05 And that that story and what she said 09:07 just still burns in my mind today. 09:09 Wow, Pastor Ikner, 09:10 what does that say to you as a preacher of righteousness? 09:13 You know, so when I sit and I listen to David 09:16 kind of share that experience, I think about the society 09:20 in which we live in and kind of the focus in 09:23 relationship to church, right? 09:24 Because back in the day, 09:25 we tried to prove doctrines to people 09:27 and we went through a whole lot of texts 09:29 and things of that nature. 09:30 And sometimes Christ would not be clearly seen, 09:34 but now we live in a very relational time. 09:37 And I think that people really wanna know hey, 09:39 how does this relate to my life? 09:41 How does this change my life? 09:42 How does this impact my family? 09:44 How is this going to make me a better person? 09:47 And Jesus has made us a promise 09:48 in His word in the Book of John, 09:50 he says, "If I be lifted up." 09:51 If I be lifted up, not just doctrines lifted up, 09:54 just truth lifted up, but if I'd be lifted up, 09:56 I would draw all men, women, boys, and girls unto myself. 09:59 Yeah, 'cause so many times through the years, you know, 10:03 you've heard the phrases as Seventh-day Adventist 10:05 preachers, you've heard the phrase, 10:06 people of the book, but the book has gotten 10:10 the focus rather than Christ. 10:12 And there was a time coming through the development 10:15 of some of these wonderful Bible truths 10:17 that it could come across 10:18 as a sledgehammer rather than olive leaf. 10:22 And so getting into evangelism, talk about that, 10:25 how did evangelism, 10:27 how did that become a focus for you? 10:28 Well, when I grew up in an Adventist Church, 10:32 but I remember specifically when I was about 20 years old, 10:36 there was an evangelistic meeting in our church. 10:39 And even though I'd heard many of these things before 10:41 I attended every night, 10:43 this was the first evangelistic meeting 10:44 I attended all the way through. 10:46 And when I saw how all these truths 10:48 were just knits together in a whole, 10:51 I remember sitting there thinking to myself, 10:54 that's what I wanna do. 10:55 I wanna be able to share 10:56 these Christ-centered truths with people 10:59 and that that's when I remember the first call 11:01 to really want to be specifically 11:03 in public evangelism. 11:05 So you say, "Well, this is what I need to do, 11:08 but I wanna make sure that people find Christ." 11:10 'Cause, you know, a lot of times people say, 11:13 "Well, I know, I don't have any issue with the Sabbath." 11:16 But I sometimes might have issue 11:17 with Sabbath keepers because people can be so 11:20 and we've seen those examples in Scripture 11:22 where people can be so supportive of the Sabbath 11:25 as that it almost becomes 11:28 "pharisaical" that Christ is lost in it. 11:31 So it's not important. 11:32 Let me ask you the question, as you put this together, 11:36 right doctrine, what's more, 11:39 what's as important as right doctrine? 11:42 I'm throwing that up, 11:43 what is as important as right doctrine? 11:46 I'm throwing that at you. 11:48 That one has a born again relationship with Jesus. 11:51 See, when it comes to the things 11:52 we present in an evangelistic meeting, 11:54 or even a set of Bible studies, 11:56 and I know early in my evangelistic ministry, 11:58 I have to be honest, it was more intellectual. 12:01 Do we intellectually understand the seventh day as the Sabbath 12:04 or that Jesus is my High Priest in a heavenly sanctuary? 12:08 I can intellectually understand that, 12:11 but not have it touched my heart 12:12 in a born again way 12:14 that draws me to Jesus and the cross. 12:16 And I wanted to go beyond 12:17 just understanding intellectual. 12:19 I mean, that part's important too, 12:21 but actually reaching the heart, 12:23 drawing people to decisions 12:25 on what does this topic have to do 12:27 with my relationship with Jesus. 12:29 Okay. 12:31 And so I would add to that 12:32 having right relationship with Jesus. 12:34 I think, David, what you said is just spot on 12:37 because a lot of times in our evangelistic meetings, 12:40 even in our preaching in the church, you know, 12:42 we have been able to convert people 12:44 with head knowledge, 12:45 but we haven't done a conversion of the heart. 12:48 And so many of our members they become discouraged 12:51 because they are trying to overcome 12:55 and find victory in their own power 12:57 not only just with doctrines, 12:58 but with substances and addictions 13:00 and the issues of life and marriage, 13:02 and just day-to-day life, how do I do it? 13:05 And yet for so long, we've just kind of felt like, 13:08 here, I am going to have to do 13:10 this on my own and tag Christ, 13:12 but when Christ in His righteousness 13:14 is seen, right? 13:16 And I come to figure out that it's not me doing it, 13:19 but it's Christ 13:20 and the Holy Spirit working in my heart, they do it. 13:23 All I have to do is surrender and cooperate, 13:26 then I have power to live a victorious life. 13:29 And these truths now become powerful 13:32 because now I wanna do it 13:34 because I've got the help to do it 13:36 because what's happening not only in my mind, 13:38 but what's happening in my heart. 13:39 That's right 2 Corinthians 5:17. 13:41 "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation." 13:44 And a lot of times people, 13:46 we get people to think differently 13:48 rather than to live differently. 13:50 Yes. 13:51 It's the transformation of life 13:53 that makes the transformation 13:54 of thought of any effect at all. 13:56 So if a person just thinking differently, 13:58 but is not transformed. 13:59 You've heard the phrase before you go down 14:01 a wet-sinner come up a dry-sinner 14:03 or go down a dry-sinner and come up a wet-sinner. 14:06 Walk us through this 'cause I know that people 14:08 watching might say, 14:09 even pastors watching might say well. 14:11 Okay, Pastor Klinedinst, 14:13 show me this in a functional way. 14:16 Walk us through some of that? 14:17 Well, in a generic sense before I speak on a subject 14:21 or give a Bible study on it, whatever the context may be, 14:24 I have to ask myself a few questions to think 14:26 through in my mind and pray through it. 14:28 And some of those questions would be, 14:31 what does this topic tell me 14:33 about having a personal relationship with Jesus? 14:36 How does this doctrine point me to the cross? 14:40 You know, how does this doctrine 14:42 somehow enable me to develop a closer walk with Jesus 14:45 and all that He has done for me? 14:48 If I can't show that in whatever topic I'm covering, 14:51 whether it be, you know, 14:52 a 70 week prophecy, or the Sabbath, 14:55 or even the mark of the beast, 14:57 if I can't show how that draws me closer to Jesus, 15:00 do I really need to be talking about it? 15:02 'Cause then I'm just getting the head knowledge 15:04 instead of drawing people 15:05 into that intimate born again relationship with Christ. 15:08 Do you remember growing up? 15:10 And I know I had this experience 15:11 before I became a pastor, I remember growing up, 15:14 and you would meet controversy. 15:16 And I remember, you know, 15:18 sitting down and getting all those proof text. 15:20 Do you remember those proof text days? 15:21 Absolutely. Yes. 15:23 Well, how do you see 15:24 the difference now in your life, 15:25 from the proof text to the Christ text? 15:29 How do you see that now? 15:30 Any one of you could answer that. 15:32 So I think that if you talk about the proof text thing, 15:35 you're sitting there and you're going through 15:37 a series of texts, where you're just trying 15:40 to show why this is truth, 15:44 and why this is the right way. 15:47 And a lot of times people are turned off by that 15:50 because if I'm of another denomination 15:52 and you're trying to get me to come across or proselytize, 15:55 then it's you being right and me being wrong, 15:58 but now if I talk about it from a relationship, 16:01 this is what Christ has for me. 16:03 And each one of these doctrines enhances 16:06 my relationship with God. 16:08 So if I'm talking about 16:09 the Sabbath it's no longer of just about a day. 16:12 And in fact, we used to spend a whole lot of time 16:14 just talking about the day of worship. 16:16 Well, we only spend maybe two or three hours 16:19 together worshiping 16:20 or less than that or some other times, 16:22 but now we're talking about 16:23 being in relationship with Christ, 16:25 where he's able to spend time with me 16:27 and talk with me and I have 16:29 uninterrupted time for a 24-hour period of time. 16:33 Instead of just running in for service and running out, 16:35 I am now connecting with Christ in a real 16:38 and personal way. 16:40 And I still do proof text so to speak, 16:43 but what we look for in those texts is 16:45 I like to call a bridge text. 16:47 What in that text is a bridge that's gonna allow me 16:51 to transition from the intellectual truth 16:54 to pointing people to Jesus 16:56 and the cross and how this helps them 16:58 to connect with Christ. 16:59 So I look for the bridge in that text 17:01 that allows me to do that 17:03 so that I'm going not just for the mind, 17:05 but also for the heart. 17:07 Okay, so you're not necessarily 17:08 like a lot of people nowadays say, 17:10 "Well, Jesus only, just tell me, 17:11 tell me about Jesus, tell me the story of Jesus." 17:13 And they're, we're living in a generation 17:15 where the Jesus only is saying, 17:18 "Well, I don't want the doctrines. 17:20 Just give me Jesus only." 17:21 How do you see the balance between the two? 17:23 Because there's a paradigm 17:25 you could go one way or the other, 17:26 but what I hear you saying is something different. 17:28 You're saying, don't go far left or far right, 17:31 but both are relevant. 17:32 Tell me how that works? 17:34 Definitely, I mean, I understand Jesus only 17:35 as far as only Jesus can save me, 17:38 but if I throw doctrine out, 17:40 the problem is for every doctrine 17:42 of the Bible, 17:43 I misunderstand, I misunderstand something about 17:46 the character of Christ, and the plan of salvation. 17:49 So though the doctrine doesn't save me, 17:51 it does tell me something about Jesus' love. 17:54 Okay, Pastor. 17:55 And I would say that 17:57 my loving relationship with Jesus 17:59 leads me to an obedience to everything that He says 18:03 because the Word says in John 14:15, 18:05 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." 18:08 And so if I got this relationship 18:10 and I love Jesus and understand Him, 18:12 then the things that 18:13 He has asked for me to do His commandments, 18:15 I'm going to want to do them. 18:17 That's right. 18:18 That love, it makes a difference. 18:19 Like a marriage, 18:21 you do what you do for your spouse. 18:23 I mean, I've been married a long-time, beautifully. 18:27 And my wife and I've always said you have, 18:29 time flies when you're having fun, 18:31 but when our anniversary, we guard our anniversary, 18:34 we say whatever you do, don't plan on our anniversary 18:37 because we take the whole day, we sometimes go away. 18:40 And I can imagine a wife saying, 18:43 "Well, what are we gonna do today?" 18:45 Well, I have this meeting, I have that meeting, 18:47 I have this meeting, that meeting, wait a minute, 18:48 what is today? 18:49 Our anniversary, so the day becomes relevant 18:52 only as the love relationship between a person exists. 18:56 Do you wanna share that example 18:58 because you talked about making Christ relational. 19:01 I think you brought a video with you that may be 19:03 able to bring that point out. 19:04 We did. 19:06 We created an evangelistic series 19:08 called Forecasting Hope which is meant to incorporate 19:11 these principles of making things Christ-centered, 19:14 positive, and relational. 19:16 And so probably I think the first clip 19:18 is just the intro to that 19:19 'cause it's starting to air in 3ABN this weekend. 19:22 And there's a clip about 19:23 how do you make the Sabbath relational, 19:25 but that's the second one. 19:26 Okay, so let's go with the first one the intro 19:27 and let people see. 19:29 This is what's leading 19:30 into your evangelistic of Forecasting Hope 19:32 evangelistic series. 19:33 Let's check that out. 20:20 Wow, I like that. 20:21 Good friend of ours, Ricky Carter, 20:23 who's that animator. 20:25 Who did that, he's done some work for me too. 20:27 Wonderful, compelling. 20:28 It's showing the kind of society 20:30 we're living in today. 20:31 I mean, let me ask you the question here we are 20:33 in a new paradigm. 20:34 How are we coping in this new paradigm 20:36 because it's transformed the way evangelism happens? 20:41 While people are searching for hope, you know, actually, 20:44 Forecasting Hope was born that 20:46 when COVID started and people were stuck at home, 20:50 we wanted to be able to, can we still reach people 20:52 'cause they were asking questions. 20:53 Google searches 20:55 in the Second Coming are up like 150%. 20:58 Can we still reach people 20:59 and they get enough negativity from the media, 21:01 what can we show that's positive even about 21:04 what's going on right now? 21:05 How can we allow prophecy 21:07 to forecast hope for the future? 21:10 And I would say, you know, during the COVID era, 21:14 it's just become a lot more challenging 21:16 with churches being closed, 21:17 not being able to go in into the doors, 21:20 we've got to find new ways 21:21 to be able to connect with people. 21:23 I think that people have a lot of uncertainty. 21:24 And even as our churches open, 21:26 people may not be as ready to return. 21:28 So being able to use media, 21:30 to be able to communicate with people, 21:31 and I think that David is so right. 21:33 I mean, you watch the news. 21:34 In fact, they tell you that 21:36 you should limit the amount of time 21:37 that you watch the news, you know, 21:38 less than an hour, 30 minutes or whatever. 21:40 People do need hope. 21:42 And so how do you know we look at all of these things 21:44 that have happened, COVID, the racial unrest, 21:48 how do we give people a sense of hope 21:51 and make a difference? 21:52 And I think that we can do that through prophecy 21:55 and through this program that David has rolled out. 21:57 Yeah, prophecy is a line of hope. 22:00 I like, you know, Isaiah 46:9-10. 22:03 You know, "I am God and there is none like Me. 22:06 I am God and so declaring the end 22:08 from the beginning from ancient times 22:10 things that are not yet done." 22:13 So prophecy gives us hope. 22:15 And why would you say prophecy gives us hope? 22:18 Well, because we know how it ends. 22:19 Okay. 22:20 You know, a lot of times prophecy 22:22 is all about doom and gloom 22:23 and this terrible thing is gonna happen. 22:25 And though we don't skip over the reality 22:27 of what things may happen in the last days, 22:30 we need to keep Christ in the center of it 22:33 because He is the one we are looking forward to. 22:35 We have a relationship with Him all the way through, 22:37 heaven is coming our way. 22:39 And if all we're gonna do is doom and gloom, 22:41 people might as well watch the news. 22:43 We wanna give them a hope 22:44 when they open up the scriptures 22:46 'cause prophecy has a lot of good things to say, 22:49 hopeful things to say. 22:50 So we wanna be like that surgeon 22:52 who says to, you know, 22:54 you have an abscess, we got to get that out. 22:56 It's not good news, but I'm gonna be as anesthetic 22:59 as I possibly can and when you're done, 23:02 when I'm done, you're gonna feel a lot better. 23:03 So we don't avoid what's happening, 23:05 but we try to stay 23:07 on the other side of this surgery 23:08 'cause the world has taken us 23:10 through a surgical process right now, 23:11 if you think about it, 23:13 who could have ever predicted we're in environment. 23:14 We're gonna be in the environment 23:16 that we're in today. 23:17 We didn't see it coming. 23:19 And I would say, you know, 23:20 prophecy doesn't just show Jesus as a judge, 23:22 which He rightfully is. 23:24 We know that He's King and that He's Lord 23:26 and that He's coming, right? 23:28 But it also shows Jesus as a Savior, 23:31 it shows Him as a Deliverer, right? 23:33 And it creates the opportunity 23:35 that there is a better life that's coming. 23:37 So all that we're dealing with, again, with this virus with, 23:41 you know, racial unrest with all that happened 23:43 with George Floyd knees being put on neck, 23:45 not being able to breathe. 23:47 Listen, Jesus is saying to us, 23:49 I'm coming to give you a better life 23:51 where there's no more pain, there's no more hurt, 23:53 there's no more sorrow, there's no more death, 23:55 there's no more suffering, there's no more suffocation. 23:57 We're gonna be able to live and breathe 23:58 and I'm gonna be there with you. 24:00 It makes God personable, right? 24:01 He's going to live amongst us, He with us, us with Him. 24:06 You know, as an evangelist, David, I could see, 24:09 it really gives you a passion to say to people, 24:12 "Hey, there's a great big dark cloud coming, 24:15 but if you drive through it on the other side, 24:17 there's some beautiful sun, there's some great time 24:20 that you'd be able to enjoy what's beyond that." 24:23 So we're letting people know that 24:24 there's something beyond what we see right now. 24:26 Am I saying that correctly? 24:27 And what makes the light go on 24:29 in my eyes gives me my passion is when I hear people 24:32 whether it be an evangelistic meeting 24:34 or whatever context, when they come out and say, 24:37 I never heard it that way before, 24:38 even church members who have heard 24:40 some of these doctrines all their life, 24:41 I never thought of it or heard it that way before 24:44 or saw Christ in the middle of this, 24:46 that just stokes my passions when I hear people say that 24:49 because then you know, 24:50 the Holy Spirit is working 24:52 and they're seeing Jesus 24:53 through these doctrines the way it was supposed to be 24:56 from the beginning. 24:57 That's right. Like the lights are off, 24:58 but I know my dad is still in the storm with me, 25:01 like a little girl's story always talked about. 25:03 We alluded to the Sabbath 25:05 being a Christ-centered approach, 25:06 but you said you also have a clip 25:08 to show how that can be possible 25:11 and how we can take the Sabbath, 25:13 which is in fact, an identifying mark. 25:16 And not just make it 25:17 our point of identity to the day, 25:20 but a point of identity to the Christ. 25:22 Let's just take a look at that right now. 25:25 Now what if I said that to Marquita? 25:27 I say that to her, 25:29 and when that special day comes, 25:31 I'm doing other things. 25:33 We're out taking a walk, 25:34 or we're out at that special candlelight restaurant 25:37 on our special day. 25:38 And all I'm doing is on my cell phone 25:40 talking to my friends, 25:42 or I'm on the iPhone trying to check the NBA scores 25:45 and see what my favorite basketball team did, 25:47 or I'm trying to sneak in reading a few pages 25:49 of my favorite book. 25:51 How well do you think that 25:53 would come across with Marquita? 25:55 Well, I can tell you, it won't go very well 25:58 because she would say something 26:00 because what I would be communicating is 26:03 these other things are more important 26:06 than our relationship. 26:07 I'm not willing to set them aside. 26:10 And so apparently I only value the relationship 26:13 up to the point of convenience. 26:17 You see, that's why God invites us 26:20 to set aside our secular labors. 26:23 Six days a week, we have to do that. 26:26 And that seventh day 26:28 that Sabbath set aside is a blessing 26:30 from the beginning for all mankind. 26:33 We're able to come into the presence of Jesus, 26:35 focus on our spiritual life, and grow to know and worship 26:41 and acknowledge our Creator. 26:43 It's a blessing from the beginning. 26:46 To illustrate it further, let's ask another question. 26:51 What do you think would be the easiest way to destroy 26:54 a relationship between a man and a woman? 26:56 What would be the easiest way? 26:59 Now someone might say, "Well, throw another woman 27:01 or put another man into the picture." 27:04 Well, I'll grant you that certainly won't help, 27:06 but that's not the easiest way. 27:09 The easiest way to destroy a relationship 27:12 is to simply take away the time they spend together 27:18 because when you make them so busy, 27:21 and their life so chaotic, even if they don't have 27:24 other marital issues, 27:25 if you take away the time they spend together, 27:29 the relationship, the intimacy, 27:32 the closeness deteriorates, 27:34 and that relationship is on its way down. 27:39 That is exactly what the devil has done with God's Sabbath. 27:45 Make us so busy, make the world so hectic, 27:49 make us believe that it's not important anymore, 27:52 that he seeks to take away that special Sabbath time 27:55 that God gave us in the beginning 27:57 so that we aren't able to spend 27:59 that special time growing in a relationship with Jesus. 28:05 Wow, thank you, David. That's true. 28:06 It's about relationship. 28:08 I like the fact that you brought your wife 28:09 into the scenario. 28:11 Am I correct? I don't know. 28:12 With her permission. Okay, with her permission. 28:14 It's important, it's about relationship. 28:15 And as married men we, 28:17 you can bring another person into the relationship, 28:21 or on that special day you don't say, 28:23 "Well, you know, honey, 28:24 let's hurry up and have this dinner. 28:26 My friends are waiting to go bowling." 28:27 She says, "Wait a minute, it's our day." 28:29 So that's inspiring. 28:31 What do you say to people that say, 28:34 "Well, okay, relationship is more important 28:37 than the day 28:39 because like I talked about avoiding the extremes? 28:42 Well, I mean, the Bible, of course, 28:44 is very clear on the day, but to be honest, 28:47 it's not hard to show 28:48 which day is the Sabbath biblically, 28:49 the seventh day, but early on in our ministry, 28:52 I used to think of I just could prove that 28:54 the Sabbath is the seventh day, 28:56 I've done my job as an evangelist. 28:58 And I don't think that way anymore 29:00 because now it has to be about 29:03 what does the Sabbath provide for me in order to have that 29:07 born-again relationship with Jesus. 29:09 You know, when I have that 29:11 born-again relationship with Jesus, 29:12 then I want to honor the day 29:14 that He specifically set aside, 29:16 but it has to do with relationship, 29:18 makes me so busy, 29:20 that I don't even have that special time with Jesus. 29:23 That's why the devil hates the Sabbath. 29:24 It's not just 'cause it's the seventh day 29:26 is because it's that special time 29:28 that that he wants to do away with, 29:31 so that I don't have that time to connect with Jesus. 29:33 And that's what the seventh day is set aside for. 29:35 That's right. A sign between Him and us. 29:37 He said, "This is My sign between you and Me." 29:39 Pastor Ikner. 29:40 If I was, as I was to add, if we were talking about time, 29:43 as David said, 29:44 I think one of the important things is, 29:47 we see that from the very beginning 29:49 the Book of Genesis that that this is God's ideal. 29:52 We have a relational God 29:54 and He makes us a relational people. 29:57 So He creates Adam and Eve on the sixth day. 30:00 And as soon as the sixth day is done, 30:02 what is He ushered them into. 30:04 He ushers them into a relationship with Him. 30:08 I think it's also important to point out. 30:09 Jesus says, you know, in New Testament. 30:10 Mark 2:27-28. 30:13 "He says that, 'The Sabbath was created for man 30:17 and not man for the Sabbath.' 30:18 It is a day for us to be in relationship with Him.'" 30:21 So I don't think that we can disconnect, 30:24 you know, the two. 30:25 If I love my God, then I understand that 30:29 He loves me so much 30:30 that He wants uninterrupted undivided time 30:34 with Him on a Sabbath day. 30:36 I like that you pointed. 30:37 I'm glad you brought that to the point of uninterrupted 30:39 because we have a relationship with Christ every day, 30:43 when it is, but then on that seventh day, 30:45 He says, shut everything else down. 30:47 This is just My time and yours, it's not the office time, 30:49 not the news time, this is not Facebook time, 30:53 this is just our time. 30:55 I wanna have that one to one with you. 30:57 Thank you for bringing that point out, 30:58 but there's another difficult doctrine, 31:00 you know, the 70 weeks, people talk about the 70 weeks, 31:02 that's just such a beautiful time prophecy. 31:07 How were you able to bring that, 31:09 make that so Christ-centered? 31:10 You know, it comes to the 70 weeks. 31:12 Sometimes people wanna skip that, 31:14 but, you know, that there's not another more 31:16 Christ-centered prophecy in the Old Testament. 31:18 And a lot of times if we're not careful, 31:20 I know what I got caught up in the beginning, 31:23 is I will use the 70 weeks and just use that as a way to, 31:26 "Hey, I got to prove that these dates are right. 31:28 And I got to show that 31:29 there is no seven-year tribulation period 31:31 in a secret rapture like those last seven years." 31:34 And I get into talking about those things, 31:37 but I missed the opportunity to talk about Jesus. 31:39 The central focus of it. 31:41 Sure, like He gives Israel 490 years to repent, 31:44 you know, the 70 weeks. 31:46 Did they really need 490 years? 31:48 That shows God's mercy, God's patience with us. 31:52 So now I can transition from talking about 457 BC. 31:56 I mean, that's important, 31:57 but I can transition from that to now 31:59 talk about maybe a story, 32:01 how has God been patient in my life? 32:03 What has Jesus Christ done for me 32:05 and shown me His mercy 32:06 or I can tell a story of someone else 32:09 or even bring someone upfront to share 32:11 a five-minute testimony. 32:12 This is how Christ has demonstrated mercy in my life. 32:15 I can do that while talking about 32:17 the 70 weeks and 457 BC and 31 AD. 32:21 And to me, that's a bridge 32:23 as to how we can make a prophecy 32:25 or a topic Christ-centered relational. 32:27 That's right. Pastor Ikner. 32:29 So I would say when you get down 32:30 to the 70 week, right, 32:32 you talk about Christ being introduced, right? 32:34 He's shown up the anointed one, the beginning of His ministry, 32:38 Him coming being Immanuel, living amongst us, 32:42 being our Savior, being our Deliverer. 32:44 We see in the middle of the week 32:46 He has cut off and yet when you talk about mercy, 32:49 and you talk about grace, I mean, 32:50 listen, maybe if I was God, 32:53 and you put me on a cross, right? 32:56 And you crucify me and kill me, I would be done, 32:59 but mercy and grace of God beyond that, 33:01 He still extends it another three and a half years 33:04 down to 34 AD, 33:05 still trying to give His people another opportunity. 33:09 And if He would give an opportunity then, 33:11 is that He's still giving that same opportunity today, 33:15 our Messiah is still alive. 33:16 Okay, I can see the bridge. 33:18 That's beautiful 33:19 because as an evangelist you say, 33:21 He gave all this time to His own people 33:23 from the time that they were let out of captivity, 33:26 from the time He restored their city. 33:28 He wanted them to catapult the gospel 33:31 and share Him to the world, 33:32 but they got bogged down in all this time past. 33:35 And you ask yourself now, pastor, 33:37 how much time has passed in your life? 33:40 How many times have Christ appealed to you? 33:42 So you see that whole time period, 33:44 now we're all pastors 33:45 so we're kind of evangelizing in the examples, 33:46 but that's what you're doing there. 33:48 So you understand that's the bridge. 33:49 That's the bridge. 33:50 That's the bridge to talk about now 33:52 I can make an appeal to accept Jesus Christ as my Savior 33:54 right in the middle of the 70-week prophecy. 33:56 I don't have to wait till the end of that, 33:59 you know, and it's all there. 34:00 Joe talked about those last seven years. 34:03 Do I wanna spend 20, 30 minutes 34:05 trying to disprove a seven-year tribulation period? 34:09 And though I will talk about that some 34:10 or do I wanna take what happened in the middle 34:12 of those seven years, which is Christ crucified 34:15 and talk about the last days of his life 34:17 and what Jesus has done for us, 34:19 and how we can surrender our lives to Him, 34:22 what's delaying me, what's delaying you 34:24 from accepting the Messiah into your lives? 34:26 Yeah, go ahead. 34:28 And I would say, 34:29 even at the end of that prophecy, 34:31 you know, while we're living in a time 34:32 where there's so much racial tension 34:34 with all this happened with George Floyd 34:36 and Breonna Taylor and all of these things, right? 34:39 This doctrine, 34:40 particularly when you get to the end, 34:42 shows that God is a God of all people 34:44 because He opens up the 70-week prophecy 34:47 and He extends it beyond Jews, He extends it to the Gentiles. 34:50 It's for everyone. 34:52 And so we see that our God is a God of love, 34:54 that He loves everyone 34:55 that everyone is a part 34:58 that God is not exclusive, 35:01 but He's inclusive of all people. 35:04 And that's the hope that we need during this time. 35:06 That's right. I mean, it's beautiful. 35:07 I love the way you're doing that. 35:09 Not only is and I'm looking at this, 35:10 I mean, my mind is just, 35:12 I'm from New York, my mind is always moving, 35:14 but not only is He the center of the 70th week, 35:18 He's the center in three crosses. 35:21 And you ask the people that are listening, 35:24 is Christ center in your life? 35:26 Or is He just one of the three guys 35:27 that you have to pick from? 35:29 And so that's the bridge you're talking about. 35:31 See, that's the beautiful thing about evangelism. 35:33 We have a clip kind of showing you illustrating 35:35 that in your sermon and I really appreciate that. 35:37 Can we go to that right now? Sure. 35:38 Let's go to that clip. 35:41 I remember doing a prophecy seminar similar to this, 35:44 in Pennsylvania, my hometown, where I grew up there in York. 35:49 And while I was there, 35:50 I got to meet so many different people. 35:52 And I remember meeting Betty, but that's not her real name, 35:56 but that's the name we're going to use. 35:58 I remember Betty had come to the meetings night by night. 36:01 And I had the opportunity later on 36:03 to just visit her in her home. 36:05 And she was sharing with me a story of her life 36:08 and just a little bit about her spiritual journey. 36:12 And I remember she looked at me 36:13 and she said, "Pastor, I need to ask you a question. 36:17 You see, I did something horrible 36:19 many, many years ago. 36:21 And for a long-time, 36:23 I've just felt so guilty about it. 36:25 I felt so bad. 36:27 I have felt that I've never been forgiven. 36:29 I have just been wracked 36:30 by the burden of guilt and regret. 36:33 And I just can't seem to shake that burden, 36:36 that weight that's upon me." 36:39 I remember looking at her 36:40 and I asked Betty, "I said, Betty, 36:42 have you ever just talked to Jesus about it?" 36:45 And she said, "No." That she hadn't. 36:48 You see, Betty was used to talking 36:49 to earthly religious leaders. 36:51 And no matter how many times 36:53 she talked to a religious leader, 36:54 no matter how many times 36:56 she may have confessed to her priests, 36:58 she just never felt that she was forgiven. 37:01 And it seemed as though 37:02 when she just read repeated prayers 37:04 that were already listened, 37:06 she just felt she wasn't connecting with God. 37:09 And I said, "Betty, 37:11 let me share something with you. 37:12 You know, the other night we talked about Jesus 37:14 being our High Priest, 37:16 in the heavenly sanctuary that that He intercedes for us. 37:19 He brings our prayers to the throne room of God. 37:22 Betty, I wanna invite you to do something. 37:25 Sometime this week, just set an hour aside, 37:30 and I want you to go up into your bedroom, 37:32 close the door. 37:34 I want you to talk to Jesus about it. 37:37 Just pour out your heart. 37:39 Don't worry about the kind of words that you use. 37:41 Don't worry about your prayer being scripted, 37:43 just talk to Jesus like He's your friend. 37:46 If you have to cry, cry, it's okay. 37:49 If you have to sob, sob, it's okay. 37:51 Just be real. Be genuine. 37:53 Just tell it to Jesus. 37:56 He wants to hear from you." 37:58 And she said, "Okay, Pastor, I'll do it." 38:01 And I remember a few nights later, 38:03 at the prophecy seminar I saw Betty. 38:06 And I was able to go up to her and say, "Betty, did you do it? 38:09 Did you set aside that time? 38:11 Did you talk to Jesus about it?" 38:13 I remember, she looked at me and she said, "Yes, Pastor. 38:15 I did." 38:17 I said, "Betty, how did it make you feel?" 38:20 And she said, "Pastor, the weight is gone. 38:23 I finally sense forgiveness, that shame, that guilt, 38:27 that request is gone because I went 38:30 and I talked to Jesus about it. 38:31 I talked to my High Priest about it. 38:33 I have been wiped clean." Can you say amen? 38:36 I will never forget the look of absolute peace and joy 38:41 on Betty's face because for the first time 38:43 she experienced what it meant to have Jesus 38:46 has her High Priest. 38:47 She experienced what it meant to know 38:50 that a living Savior was interceding for her 38:53 in a heavenly sanctuary. 38:57 Now that's the passion of the gospel, 38:59 not just presenting the factual Christ, 39:02 but the passion of Christ. 39:03 Praise the Lord, you got some fire in there 39:05 from a guy from PA. 39:07 And that's the joy of the Lord. 39:09 Now what you wanna share about what we just saw there? 39:11 We see that that cut, there's kind of an example that 39:13 that was the message in the 2300 days, you know, 39:15 Jesus, our High Priest in a heavenly sanctuary. 39:18 And so often we get bogged down with dates, etcetera, 39:21 which again, are fine, but there was an example where, 39:26 when it talks about Jesus being our High Priest, 39:28 now I can take a bridge from that, 39:30 and I can talk about what does that actually mean 39:32 that He's my High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary? 39:35 Is that just intellectual? 39:36 What does that mean 39:38 for having a relationship with Jesus? 39:39 So I tell the story about Betty. 39:41 And you can use that as an opportunity 39:43 then we couldn't do it there on that clip, 39:45 but now I can talk about how do you talk to Jesus? 39:49 I can spend some time teaching people in the series, 39:51 how do you pray? 39:53 How do you talk and connect with Jesus in a real way? 39:55 So I can transition from, you know, 39:57 1844 as important as that is, 39:59 but now I can also make a bridge to teach people. 40:02 How can they connect with their High Priest? 40:05 What are the principles of learning how to pray, 40:07 and that's what takes it from here 40:10 and brings it here and makes it real. 40:12 Wow. 40:13 Pastor Ikner, anything you wanna add to that? 40:15 So when I'm sitting and I'm watching this clip, 40:18 it really kind of spoke to me 40:20 because when we talk about the 2300 days, 40:22 we talk about the investigative judgment. 40:24 So often we just talk about 40:26 the judgment and judgment can be scary. 40:29 You talk about, you know, when He comes in my name, 40:31 what if I'm not ready, all those things 40:33 we've heard through the years. 40:35 And yet, even though judgment it's true, 40:38 that there is favor in the judgment, 40:40 and there's a hope in the judgment. 40:42 And so I'm sitting here thinking that 40:45 I have a High Priest, 40:47 who's also my judge, who's working for me. 40:50 I think it gives hope to people who struggle with knowing, 40:55 can God ever forgive me or can I forgive myself? 40:58 I've got one who's been tested in all points as I have, 41:01 yet done it without sin, who's working to forgive me, 41:05 working on my behalf, 41:06 pleading His blood on my behalf. 41:09 It's awesome. 41:10 That's right, you know, a lot of people, 41:12 years ago when I was a young man, 41:15 and maybe this had been 41:16 how some people may have thought they might think, 41:18 "Well, God is the judge. 41:20 And Jesus is pleading with the judge 41:23 who wants to condemn us all." 41:25 Please don't do it. 41:26 Well, Jesus is the judge 41:28 and the learned and the attorney. 41:31 He's our advocate. 41:33 And the most beautiful picture 41:34 I got many years ago in the Roman court, 41:36 where he says, I'll give you a white stone 41:37 with a new name on it. 41:39 And I like to point you made, 41:41 judgment is made in favor of the saints of the Most High, 41:45 that's relational evangelism, 41:47 but now let's talk about your ministry, 41:51 Discover Bible Prophecy Ministry. 41:54 Let's talk about that. 41:56 That's the name of our evangelistic ministry. 41:59 Our desire is really to get even more 42:01 into media ministry, 42:03 what we'd really like to see happen. 42:04 I mean, I serve as the evangelism director 42:06 of Chesapeake, that's my full-time job, 42:07 but I'm still an evangelist. 42:10 And one of the things we'd really like to do 42:12 is like Forecasting Hope that you saw, 42:14 right now they're on some Christian television networks, 42:17 but one of our passions and dreams is to be 42:19 able to put them on some secular TV stations 42:22 on the weekend to really reach maybe secular-minded people 42:26 or people that maybe 42:27 they're not thinking about God right now, 42:30 but maybe spiritual things are going through their mind 42:32 to just reach a whole array of people. 42:34 And of course, as you know, airtime is not free, you know, 42:36 particularly in the secular world. 42:38 And then there's always the need for, you know, 42:40 using some of the graphics that we do, 42:42 graphics aren't free. 42:43 There's licensing fees, and, you know, 42:45 if you want to be ethical, 42:46 there's licensing fees and things like that. 42:48 And so that would help in a great way 42:50 to make more programming available. 42:52 And even to be able to go 42:54 to conference, pastors' meetings, 42:56 and teach other pastors, 42:58 how can I present these things in a Christ-centered way? 43:00 So that you can, you know, in a sense, 43:03 duplicate yourself through the Holy Spirit. 43:04 That's right. 43:05 I like that because a lot of young pastors 43:07 coming up that are like new race horses, you know, 43:10 they wanna get out there and run. 43:12 And they're doctrine, doctrine, doctrine, doctrine, doctrine, 43:14 and they might be able to win an argument, 43:17 but to win the heart, I remember Pastor Finley 43:19 talking about that. 43:20 He said, "You can win the intellectual argument, 43:23 but you could leave the heart stone cold." 43:25 So that's, I'm glad you're thinking about that. 43:27 So, you know, for those 43:28 who may be watching the program, 43:30 you may be a pastor or a young evangelists 43:34 or young person that may wanna say, 43:36 "Well, I wanna find out how to do that. 43:38 I'm at a very novice level. 43:41 I'd like to find out how to get access to the tools. 43:43 We'll let you know in just a moment 43:45 how you can do that, 43:46 but one of the points you brought out 43:47 that I'd like to appeal to the audience before, 43:49 you know, you wanna share about 43:51 your wife's ministry, just briefly there. 43:53 There those of you that 43:55 as Pastor Klinedinst pointed out 43:58 to develop graphics, to develop animation, 44:02 to use pictures, people today we live in a society 44:05 where we wanna do everything above board. 44:08 And a lot of times people go on the internet 44:09 and copy a picture that's not public domain 44:14 that belongs to someone else and they drop it 44:16 into their evangelistic presentations. 44:18 That's not permissible for those of us 44:20 who are part of gospel. 44:21 We have to do all things decently 44:23 and in order and legally. 44:25 And I know like Adobe stock photo, 44:27 Shutterstock photo, 44:29 there are a lot of companies out there 44:31 that provide this means, 44:32 but just give an idea if somebody was saying, 44:35 "Well, I wanna donate towards your ministry." 44:37 Give us some things 44:39 that you feel will be important, 44:41 not only just the graphics needed 44:43 or the licensing fees, 44:45 but what are the ways can people donate toward making 44:48 the Discover Bible Prophecy School important? 44:50 Well, obviously they can go to our... 44:52 Or successful. 44:53 They can go to our website and donate through there 44:55 or mail it in, but again, 44:57 it'll help us to create other programming not just, 45:00 of course, evangelistic series, 45:02 but also training tools that will help train other pastors 45:05 how to be able to present these things 45:09 because do you want just one or two people doing it 45:11 or do you want a whole army of pastors 45:13 or lay evangelists or lay pastors, 45:15 being able to present things in a Christ-centered way? 45:18 And we wanna turn people on, you know, public evangelism, 45:20 in some places has gotten a bad name 45:22 because of the way people 45:24 have heard it presented or done before. 45:26 Our passion is to show them no, it can be positive, 45:30 it can be Christ-centered, 45:32 and to just reignite that passion for evangelism. 45:35 You know, even Jesus doesn't kick down doors. 45:37 He says, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock." 45:40 If you hear my voice, and I like that, 45:41 not just the doctrines, but are you listening for me 45:44 and we have to present the voice of Christ. 45:46 Pastor Ikner. 45:47 Yeah, and I think 45:49 that's what's so important in a day and age 45:52 where we have, 45:54 we know that the sign of the end 45:57 is that the gospel will go to the entire world. 46:00 And then Jesus says, the end will come, right? 46:04 And so Christ has to be lifted up, 46:06 we have to have a way to be able to share. 46:09 And I think that using media and that, you know, 46:12 we don't know what the future is gonna hold, 46:14 we don't know 46:15 when the end of this pandemic is gonna come. 46:18 So, you know, being able to step 46:20 beyond the church and inviting people 46:21 just to come to, you know, into our doors. 46:25 That's why I like the whole idea about media. 46:28 I like the whole idea about this series. 46:30 And the other series that are out there 46:32 where people can tune in 46:33 on various websites on Proclaim 46:36 or 3ABN or YouTube or Facebook whatever 46:39 and be able to hear the gospel from the comfort of their home 46:42 because we never know, the Holy Spirit has the ability 46:45 to take what goes out into the air ways 46:46 and media ways 46:48 and to bring souls unto himself. 46:49 That's right before we reach out to our viewing 46:51 and listening audience. 46:52 You had to share about your wife's ministry? 46:55 Yes. Yeah. 46:56 Of course, I'm very biased. She's my favorite speaker. 46:59 But my wife's name is Marquita. 47:01 She has a ministry called Moments With Jesus. 47:03 And she speaks a lot at women's retreats, 47:05 prayer convocations, prayer conferences, 47:08 and she loves to be able to connect and speak 47:12 about how to genuinely connect 47:13 with Jesus in a practical way, the power of prayer. 47:17 She's done her own evangelistic meeting as well. 47:20 And people may wanna go to that website 47:22 and see some of her resources. 47:23 I mean, right now, 47:25 she has a Friday Night Live Bible study that 47:27 she does every Friday night at 9 pm Eastern, 47:30 where they just go through 47:31 different Bible studies together 47:32 and people join in 47:34 from different parts of the world. 47:35 So I just encourage people 47:36 to check out MomentsWithJesus.org. 47:40 Now let's just give us summary 47:43 'cause one of the toughest topics presented out there 47:46 is probably the mark of the beast. 47:47 Give me a hint on how you make 47:49 the mark of the beast Christ-centered? 47:52 Well, the first thing I have to ask myself 47:54 is how would I feel on the other side of the pew 47:57 if I didn't know these truths 47:59 about Sabbath etcetera, and I'm hearing this. 48:02 Do I wanna communicate to the other person, 48:03 they're less of a Christian 'cause they don't know this 48:06 or that God loves them any less 48:07 because I know the truth and you don't, 48:09 I don't wanna communicate that. 48:11 What I wanna communicate to them is, 48:13 here's some truth, 48:14 Jesus is leading you on a journey. 48:16 Your relationship with Jesus 48:17 has been genuine all the way up to this point. 48:20 And He's just leading you in the next step. 48:22 And when it comes to, yes, 48:23 the mark of the beast is a testing truth, 48:25 but what it really comes down to is this, 48:27 it goes beyond just the Sabbath Sunday issue. 48:30 It really comes down to surrender. 48:34 And if I can take time 48:35 in the mark of the beast message, 48:38 to talk about what has Jesus done for me 48:40 how He surrendered in the Garden of Gethsemane, 48:42 not My will, but Thy will be done. 48:44 How He surrendered His life on the cross, 48:46 how He gave up heaven for you and me, 48:49 talk about Jesus surrender. 48:51 And then from there, 48:53 I can appeal Jesus surrendered everything for us. 48:56 Are we willing to surrender everything to Jesus, 48:59 our hearts including 49:00 our cherished preconceived ideas. 49:02 Am I willing to surrender? 49:04 'Cause that's really what it's all about. 49:05 Wow, that's beautiful, surrender. 49:07 What do you say about that, Pastor Joseph? 49:08 So I would say that 49:10 that the mark of the beast with the antithesis of that 49:13 being the seal of God 49:14 kind of speaks to our loyalty to God, 49:16 and the need to have a relationship throughout, 49:18 as David has said. 49:20 So if I'm working on relationship now, 49:21 when I'm faced with this crisis, you know, 49:24 at all points and times, 49:26 our relationships are tested. 49:28 And it doesn't, the tests don't create the relationship, 49:31 the crisis doesn't create the relationship, 49:33 it really tells what type of relationship we have. 49:36 So if I'm in that relationship, 49:38 then I'm gonna be prepared for that moment. 49:40 And I also think, a lot of times 49:42 when we talk about the mark of the beast, 49:43 we like to build it around people, 49:45 but I think if we can show that 49:47 there is one that want to interfere 49:50 with our relationship, 49:51 Satan himself that this thing is bigger than 49:54 just flesh and blood, right? 49:56 And that we wanna make sure that 49:58 we keep Satan away from our relationship, 50:00 the demons away from our relationship, 50:02 and we wanna stay close to Christ. 50:04 When we hit that moment, 50:06 we will be able to overcome and be victorious. 50:08 That's right. 50:09 If people go to your website, 50:11 and I'll give them that information 50:12 in just a moment, what could they look for? 50:14 Are there media tools there? Give us an idea? 50:17 They can order the Forecasting Hope series, 50:19 which will be obviously available very soon. 50:21 There is other series that are on there. 50:24 There's other resources they can take a look at, 50:26 they can watch some of the things 50:27 that we have there on our website, etcetera. 50:30 They can even submit prayer requests, 50:32 and there's just a lot of different things 50:34 that they can peruse through it 50:35 and wherever they can use for their witnessing endeavors, 50:37 they're welcome to do so. 50:39 Wow. Well, I appreciate that. 50:40 We're gonna take a news break in just a moment here, 50:42 but before we do that, I wanna remind you 50:45 the address that you need to use to get in touch 50:48 with Pastor David Klinedinst is Discover Bible Prophecy. 50:53 And here's the information that you need to be 50:55 able to get in touch with this marvelous ministry 50:58 and find out how you can not only financially, 51:00 but experientially and maybe training 51:02 if that's something you need 51:04 can be a part of your experience. 51:09 To find out more information about Discover Bible Prophecy, 51:12 and how you might support them, 51:14 please contact them at 855-774-HOPE. 51:19 That's 855-774-4673. 51:24 You may go to their website at DiscoverBibleProphecy.org. 51:28 That's DiscoverBibleProphecy.org. 51:32 You may also write to them 51:33 at PO Box 850, Columbia, Maryland 21044. |
Revised 2020-09-04