Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY200011A
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00:02 I want to spend my life
00:08 Mending broken people 00:13 I want to spend my life 00:19 Removing pain 00:24 Lord, let my words 00:30 Heal a heart that hurts 00:35 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:46 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people 01:08 Hello and welcome to another 3ABN Today program. 01:12 I'm Jason Bradley 01:13 and I'm so glad that you could join us. 01:15 We are going to be discussing a topic 01:18 that is sensitive in nature. 01:19 So viewer discretion 01:21 and listener discretion is advised. 01:23 And if you're a parent and you have young children, 01:26 we suggest that you watch this program first 01:29 and then determine whether or not 01:31 it's appropriate to share with your young children. 01:34 We will be talking about pornography and addiction 01:38 and, and deliverance 01:40 because we want to focus too 01:42 on the deliverance aspect of the journey. 01:47 Here with me to share on this very important topic 01:51 is Michael Carducci, 01:52 co-founder of 'Coming Out' Ministries. 01:54 Great to have you, Mike. Thank you, Jason. 01:56 May call you Mike? 01:58 Of course. All right. 01:59 We have Kezia Chisholm. 02:01 She is the associate, 02:03 one of the associate speakers of 'Coming Out' Ministries. 02:06 And then we have Harrison Umana, 02:09 who is also an associate speaker 02:12 of 'Coming Out' Ministries. 02:13 Welcome, guys. 02:15 Thank you. Thank you so much. 02:16 Yes. 02:17 Now, Kezia, you've been on when we were at, 02:20 I think it was, was it ASI? 02:22 GYC. GYC, yes. 02:24 GYC. 02:25 And we talked to you briefly. 02:27 So I'm looking forward to jumping into your story 02:30 a little bit deeper as well. 02:31 And, Mike, 02:33 I know that you have a powerful testimony. 02:35 I'm excited to hear more about that. 02:38 And, Harrison, 02:39 this is your first time on 3ABN on the Today program. 02:44 So I'm excited to dive into your journey as well. 02:48 But before we do, 02:50 we're going to be blessed in a song by ET Everett, 02:52 she'll be playing "Open the Eyes of My Heart". 08:06 Wow. 08:08 God has blessed ET 08:09 with a tremendous gift on the keys. 08:11 Mike, now, I've known you for a little while, 08:15 and I was really moved by your testimony. 08:18 And I just want you to go into your journey, 08:21 and also talk about 'Coming Out' Ministries 08:24 and the relevance of it in today's society. 08:27 Okay. 08:28 My story started, actually, I would say, 08:31 at 40 years old, 08:33 when I came back into the church culture 08:35 and after living as a homosexual for 20 years. 08:40 The questions that I had for Jesus 08:42 was just two 08:43 and I said, "I want to know 08:44 why I was a girl trapped in a boy's body." 08:46 That was my first conscious thought, 08:48 at like four years old. 08:49 And then I wanted to know 08:51 why I ended up same sex attracted, 08:52 and those were 08:54 the only two questions that I had. 08:55 And the church couldn't answer those questions 08:57 when I left the church at 20. 08:59 But then coming back into the church at 40, 09:01 nobody had the answers for that, either. 09:03 So in this journey of spending this time with God, 09:07 and not only through science, 09:09 but also through the Bible, 09:11 through different sermons that I was hearing, 09:13 the Lord was really answering those questions for me. 09:15 And I didn't realize that there was this thing 09:18 called defensive detachment 09:20 that actually happened between my dad and I, 09:21 even before I was conscious. 09:23 And what that means is that every little boy, 09:25 they have to make this transition 09:27 from the mother to the father, 09:28 and all of that is just healthy gender stamping. 09:31 And so a child doesn't have any kind of idea 09:34 that they're male or female, 09:35 until they get between the ages of one and three. 09:38 So during that time, my dad was in the Navy 09:39 and he'd be gone six months at a time, 09:41 which to someone like me that was almost half my life. 09:44 So I was always with my mom. 09:46 I had three sisters. 09:47 So I didn't have another example of masculinity. 09:50 But then when my dad was home, my dad was abusive. 09:53 He was loud and yelling a lot and so for this little kid, 09:56 for this little boy trying to make this transition 09:58 over to my gender identity, 10:01 he either wasn't available, or he was frightening. 10:04 And so I didn't want that at all. 10:06 I totally rejected that. 10:08 But this is called defensive detachment, 10:10 meaning that in my defense, 10:11 I detached from my father as my role model. 10:14 So the only example left for me was my mom. 10:16 So she was soft and warm, and kind and so I thought, 10:19 all right, that's who I want to be. 10:21 But that wasn't a conscious decision. 10:23 So then at age four years old, 10:26 then the idea was like, 10:27 you know, I'm a girl trapped in a boy's body. 10:29 I started to realize 10:30 that my sisters weren't like me, 10:32 but I wasn't like the boys in the neighborhood either. 10:35 So as I was patterning after my mom, 10:37 I liked playing with dolls, 10:38 I liked dressing up in our clothes, 10:41 you know, I could tell that there was something wrong, 10:43 but I didn't know how to fix it. 10:45 I thought that my body had to change, 10:47 not my mind, 10:48 because there was no way 10:49 that I was even in control of that. 10:51 So imagine the depression of a little kid growing up 10:53 knowing that you just don't fit in. 10:55 And I would actually fantasize. 10:56 I would think to myself, "If I just had a twin, 10:59 if I had a twin brother, 11:00 then I'd be able to look at him 11:02 and then I would know who I was." 11:04 Do see how disconnected I was even with my own identity. 11:06 Yeah, yeah. 11:07 So as I was growing up, 11:09 the kids in school saw my feminine mannerisms 11:11 and they would call me sissy, 11:13 queer little girl 11:14 and what that did is that pushed away the one thing 11:16 that I was desperate for, 11:18 not knowing that I needed that 11:19 but I was desperate for masculine affirmation. 11:21 I was desperate for, you know, someone to say, 11:24 "You're okay as you are, 11:25 you're, you know, you are a guy, 11:26 your biology says who you are 11:28 and it's innate and it's immutable, 11:30 it doesn't change." 11:32 And so I was looking for that affirmation. 11:34 So because I didn't get it, 11:35 because it became more elusive to me, 11:37 and then I decided that, 11:39 you know, I definitely needed to have a sex change. 11:42 This followed me until I was 20 years old. 11:45 And I remember looking at pornography 11:48 and thinking to myself, 11:49 well, if men desire these women, 11:52 and these women are beautiful, 11:53 then if I was a woman 11:55 then maybe men would love me too. 11:57 The problem was I needed male affirmation in love, 12:00 I needed the assurance to know that I was loved 12:03 and okay as I was, 12:04 because that was missing from my father. 12:06 So that became sexualized at puberty. 12:09 When puberty came, 12:11 I remember 12:12 I actually got a book from the library at school 12:15 and brought it home 12:16 and self taught myself masturbation 12:17 and I knew 12:19 that there was something wrong about it. 12:21 You know, I couldn't share that with anyone but yet, 12:24 it was in a very chaotic world, 12:26 something that I found to be very dependent on. 12:28 My parents were divorced when I was 10. 12:30 So at 13 12:31 we were living in a low income housing project 12:33 in Detroit, 12:35 I was less than 100 pounds, 12:36 and this very mixed school 12:38 and so if I didn't get beat up at school, 12:40 I got beat up by my sister at home 12:43 and so 10 minutes in the bathroom, 12:45 several times a day was really, to me, 12:47 the only relief 12:48 of a really desperate and lonely, 12:50 you know, life that I was living, 12:52 not realizing the stronghold 12:54 that this was going to create 12:56 in me or on me until even as an adult. 12:59 But to the transgender situation, 13:02 that when I came out into gay culture 13:04 at 20 years old, 13:05 because I couldn't get my religion 13:06 and my sexuality to come together, 13:08 they have laws now 13:10 that will protect children like me, 13:11 that if I came forward at eight years old and said, 13:14 "You know, I'm a girl trapped in a boy's body," 13:16 the government now can step in 13:17 against the will of the parents 13:19 and start giving their children hormones 13:20 that will not only block the puberty process, 13:23 but help them to transition to be the sex that they desire. 13:26 Wait a minute, at eight years old? 13:29 Like as a child that would come forward. 13:30 Wow. 13:32 Yes, absolutely. 13:33 And you know, something, I was desperate for that, 13:34 that at eight years old, if that was available, 13:36 when I was a kid, 13:37 I would have been first in line, 13:39 I would have been that one kid there. 13:40 But here's what happened. 13:42 As I became 20 years old, and turned my back on God, 13:45 because I really thought that the only way 13:47 that God would accept me 13:48 is if I had a sex change, 13:50 because, you know, 13:51 that would help me to transition 13:53 to be the sex that I desired that I thought I was, 13:55 but then my same sex attraction would be changed 13:58 because if I had a sex change, 14:00 then my attraction to men would be acceptable to God. 14:03 And this was all messed up in my head 14:04 because it all got kind of twisted around 14:07 even before I was conscious. 14:09 So at 21, I came out into the gay culture, 14:11 I realized that, 14:13 "Oh, masculinity is much more desirable 14:15 than femininity." 14:17 So I realized 14:18 that if I botched it up a little bit 14:19 and worked out in the gym 14:21 that I got the attention from men that I desired, 14:22 and I never struggled again with gender identity. 14:25 But if you stop and think about it now, 14:28 kids as young as 16 years old are having sex changes. 14:31 And you know, we're giving children 14:34 the ability to take charge of their gender identity, 14:36 even when they can't even decide 14:38 on their favorite color, 14:39 their minds aren't mature enough to know, 14:41 you know, what they really want or whatever. 14:43 And so, when you allow a child to change their sex at 16... 14:47 Mm-hmm. 14:48 What would have happened to me if all of a sudden at 20 14:50 I realized that I've made a huge mistake? 14:51 Yeah. 14:53 You know, this is shocking to me to think 14:54 that we would allow children to make these huge decisions 14:58 and it doesn't change your sex. 15:00 It mutilates your body, 15:01 you might appear to be the opposite sex, 15:04 but it doesn't change your DNA. 15:05 Your DNA is immutable 15:07 and it says exactly who you are, 15:09 regardless. 15:10 I'm glad that you brought that point up, 15:12 because that's the opposite of what's being taught. 15:14 You know, that is the complete opposite. 15:16 So I'm glad that you said that. 15:18 A quick story, 15:19 there was a little boy that came to his mother 15:20 at eight years old and said that he was a girl. 15:22 She started the hormone therapy, 15:24 he developed natural breasts, 15:26 his voice didn't drop, his face started to change 15:29 and become more female. 15:30 And so then at 13 years old, 15:32 he realized that this was not who he was 15:34 and he went to his mom, and he said, "Wait a minute, 15:36 I'm not a girl, I'm a boy." 15:38 And so mom, of course, was shocked. 15:40 But they stopped all the hormone therapy, 15:42 but he still had these natural breasts, 15:44 and they had to be surgically removed. 15:46 He has to go to a voice coach now to actually help him 15:48 to lower his voice, 15:50 because of what the hormones all did, 15:51 all because we allow eight-year-old kids 15:54 to determine what their sex is. 15:55 Wow. Wow. 15:57 So continuing in your journey, 16:00 where did you and how did you come out of that, that culture? 16:06 And where did you go to start 'Coming Out' Ministries. 16:11 Okay. 16:13 That's kind of a loaded, a loaded question. 16:14 It's all right, I can do it. 16:15 I can do it. 16:17 So 20 years living in the gay culture, 16:20 at least I finally found 16:21 what I thought I was looking for. 16:23 It was embracing who I thought I was. 16:25 I bought into the whole idea that I was born this way, 16:28 you know, was it nature or nurture? 16:29 I think for me, it was a combination. 16:31 So I didn't realize it, 16:33 but I'd become a sexual addict 16:34 within just a few short months. 16:36 And I think that the LGBT community 16:39 really take advantage of the naivete 16:42 of the Christian community 16:43 because they promote this idea that homosexual relationships 16:46 are the same as heterosexual relationships, 16:48 but I can affirm to you that that's not true. 16:50 But after spending 20 years in that culture, 16:53 unfaithful in the five significant relationships 16:56 that I had within that time, 16:58 I was at the end of my ropes. 16:59 I knew that I was toying with this thing called AIDS 17:03 which was out of control. 17:05 And I came out the very same year 17:06 that AIDS came out 17:07 and I had unprotected sex with men 17:09 that would be dead three months later. 17:10 And yet that wasn't enough to stop me. 17:12 My addiction to pornography back in 1997, 17:15 when I got my first computer, 17:17 I'd be up until like, two, three o'clock in the morning, 17:20 looking at porn, going into chat rooms, 17:22 lining up these elicit situations, 17:25 and my behavior was absolutely out of control. 17:28 So because I had three sisters praying for me, 17:31 and that was, that's the part, 17:32 because you know what, 17:34 if they weren't praying for me, I wouldn't be here. 17:35 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'd be in the grave. 17:37 But because somebody was praying for me, 17:38 and they didn't accept the ideology that homosexuality 17:42 was a blessing from God 17:43 or that this was a gift from God, 17:44 or that it was immutable, 17:46 they were just praying for me 17:47 because they knew I was out of control. 17:49 I wasn't praying for myself because I wanted nothing to do 17:52 with a God that I thought wanted nothing to do with me. 17:55 But you know what? 17:56 The Lord heard those prayers. 17:57 And when the time was right, I was 40 years old, 18:00 I was in the best relationship I'd ever been in, 18:02 a rich, rich guy with big blue eyes 18:04 and big arms and he was a millionaire, 18:06 and we both had convertible Mercedes, 18:08 I was a hairdresser to the stars, 18:10 I just had everything 18:11 that the world said was valuable. 18:13 But at that time 18:14 when the Lord really pulled me out of all of that, 18:18 well, it was kind of a process 18:20 because He didn't just pluck me out. 18:21 It was a process 18:23 when I accepted Jesus as my Savior 18:24 at this evangelistic series 18:26 that my sister invited me to, 18:27 I still had a boyfriend and a sexual addiction. 18:30 But in that process, the Lord was patient with me 18:33 and long suffering with me 18:34 because I was trying to prove to Him 18:35 that if He would just baptize my boyfriend, 18:37 that we would be this mighty team for Him. 18:40 So of course, you know, God was working with me. 18:42 And in that process, 18:44 as I started to read the word of God, 18:45 God did not condemn the person that had same sex attraction 18:49 or that person that felt like they were in the wrong sex. 18:52 He condemns the behavior, 18:53 because every time that my aunt would tease my hair 18:56 as a little boy in the bathroom, 18:57 it gave me this immense feeling like, "Wow, 18:59 I could actually be convincing as a girl," 19:02 and then living in that life. 19:03 The more that I was participating 19:05 in same sex behavior, 19:07 what it did is it detached me from God 19:09 that I thought, 19:11 you know, cared about me into this idea 19:13 that now I was worshiping the idols of sexuality 19:17 and the labels and that was my whole focus. 19:20 So, God didn't condemn me because I was transgendered 19:24 and same sex attracted. 19:26 He was condemning the behavior because it drew me 19:28 further and further away from a God that I could love 19:31 and interact with intimately. 19:34 And I'm so glad that you made that distinction 19:36 because, you know, God loves everyone. 19:38 Oh, yes. And He wants to save everyone. 19:41 But nowadays, when you say anything about, 19:45 you know, somebody being able to gain 19:47 the victory over... 19:49 That's hate speech. The gay culture. 19:50 Exactly. That's hate speech. 19:52 It's deemed as hate speech, 19:53 but really, it's a loving message. 19:55 Yeah. You know? 19:56 Well, love has to go with it. 19:58 And you know what, 19:59 we as Christians have done a terrible job 20:00 of misrepresenting that love of Christ. 20:02 That is true. 20:03 And it's interesting because, you know, 20:04 what I heard 20:06 when I left the church at 20 years old 20:07 was that God hates people like me, 20:10 and that we were going to burn 20:11 in a hotter hell than everybody else. 20:12 So why would I stay, you know? 20:14 Why would I stay in a religion 20:16 that just tells me that I'm condemned. 20:17 So I walked out of there at 20. 20:19 So it was so funny, because at 40 20:21 when I came back into the church, 20:23 we completely went the other side like, 20:25 first they said, 20:26 gays can't change and God hates them. 20:28 Now we come back into the church, 20:29 and people say, 20:30 "Oh, gays can't change but now we love them 20:32 and that God loves them." 20:33 And here's the problem. 20:35 The message was wrong both times. 20:37 You know that, did you forget 1 Corinthians 6:11, 20:41 because it said such were some of you, 20:43 but you've been washed and you've been sanctified, 20:45 you've been cleansed and those are the things 20:47 that I can't do for you. 20:48 You know, 'Coming Out' Ministries 20:49 isn't here to make gay people straight. 20:51 You know, I could never do that. 20:53 But what God can do is He can take your heart, 20:56 He can fill it in such a way that He can draw you 20:59 out of those things that have pulled you away 21:00 and identified you for so long. 21:02 And that's a message of love. 21:04 That's not a message of hate 21:05 to tell you to come out of that. 21:07 And you know, when you take 1 Corinthians 6, 21:09 and you look at all of the abominations 21:11 that, you know, 21:13 somehow the churches plucked out 21:14 homosexuality and made that the crowning sin, 21:16 now guess what? 21:18 There's hope for you, Harrison, there's hope for you, Kezia. 21:19 Right. 21:21 You know, and you too, Jason. 21:22 So now we all have the promise that Revelation 18:4, 21:26 "Come out of her, my people," 21:28 you know, I'm not the only one to come out, 21:30 we're all coming out of sin. 21:32 You know, into God's marvelous light. 21:34 That's not a message of hate. 21:35 It's totally a message of love. 21:37 And that's what 'Coming Out' Ministries 21:39 is all about sharing that message of love... 21:41 Sounds so good when you say that. 21:42 Sharing the fact that you know you can gain victory 21:46 over sin through Christ Jesus. 21:48 Amen. Thank you. 21:49 And now, Kezia. Yes. 21:52 We have to jump into your testimony. 21:54 Let's start with your childhood. 21:55 You're biracial of course. Yes, I am. 21:57 So my mom's Filipino. And then my father's Guyanese. 22:00 So automatically from a young age, 22:02 I already knew that there was something different 22:04 just for seeing how my mom is being that she's the woman, 22:07 I'm the girl. 22:08 And just seeing her complexion, 22:09 her hair texture was different from mine. 22:11 And then my dad, he's from Guyana. 22:13 And so I related a bit more with him 22:15 than my mom. 22:17 And so just from a young age, 22:18 I just always knew that there was something different. 22:20 And eventually, over time, this was by like, 22:23 kindergarten, 22:24 I ended up having my first sexual encounter. 22:26 And this was at a public school with another girl. 22:29 And so this already started from such a young age. 22:32 And so from that, it just kind of trickled down 22:35 to other things. 22:36 And I didn't really think it was an issue, 22:38 because I wasn't taught that, you know, 22:40 if someone touches you, you should say something. 22:42 And so at home, we were, you know, 22:44 kind of like a normal family in a sense. 22:46 God wasn't really the center of our household. 22:49 I came to know about God through my grandparents. 22:52 Anytime I would visit them, I always noticed, 22:55 you know, Friday nights, they would turn off the TVs. 22:58 They would just have worship. 22:59 Saturdays going to church. 23:01 And so with them, I noticed their calm demeanor. 23:03 And anytime I would go back home, 23:05 I would notice things were a little bit different. 23:07 And there was like a lot of arguing going on. 23:09 And I, you know, I thought this was a regular, 23:11 typical thing. 23:12 But it really wasn't until when I turned 12, 23:15 that things really went downhill from there 23:17 where my parents divorced, 23:20 you know, due to certain, certain circumstances. 23:22 And so with my dad leaving the home now, 23:24 I was just left with, you know, my mom, 23:27 who I didn't look like. 23:28 I'm trying to figure out, you know, "Who am I?" 23:30 Trying to figure out my self identity. 23:32 And so with having that struggle, 23:34 a lot of hatred just started to build in 23:36 within my heart, a lot of anger. 23:38 And so with all that anger that came about, 23:40 I just started to look for a lot of things, 23:42 anything that could really just numb the pain 23:44 I was feeling. 23:45 And so I just became very promiscuous 23:47 with both guys and girls. 23:49 Just kind of looking for love in any way 23:52 I could get it. 23:53 Even if it was wrong, 23:55 at least it was some sort of love 23:56 that I was able to attain. 23:58 And so that I also just turned to, 24:00 like smoking marijuana, 24:02 drinking, just a lot of partying, 24:04 just having a lot of depression, 24:05 suicidal thoughts, 24:07 just anything to really numb what I was feeling, 24:09 because I was just realizing that I had a lot of anger. 24:12 You were really trying to escape your reality. 24:14 Yeah. Yeah, for sure. 24:15 It was just anything to just, you know, 24:17 get away from what was going on at home. 24:20 Because I know at one point for several years, 24:22 I really just wanted both of my parents dead, 24:24 because of the level of anger. 24:26 Just knowing that, you know, 24:27 I understood that they had their issues 24:30 but to see that now, 24:31 me as an only child trying to figure out, 24:33 "How do I go about life?" 24:35 So my teenage years was just really filled with 24:37 just a lot of self medicating, 24:39 just trying to figure out 24:41 how to go through day to day basis. 24:43 And so it was just a lot of buildup of things 24:45 just going back and forth. 24:47 So you continue to journey down that downward spiral 24:52 and things were just getting worse and worse, 24:54 would you say? 24:56 It was. 24:57 It really wasn't until one time how, 24:59 it's really amazing how God can meet us 25:01 where we are because there was one evening, 25:03 I was just really stressed out 25:04 with some things that were going on. 25:06 And so I figured, you know what, 25:07 I'll just smoke some weed and just get my mind off 25:09 of what was going on. 25:11 And so I called up a friend and the plan was for just him 25:14 and I just to smoke. 25:15 But unfortunately, because we were both high, 25:17 we ended up having sex that evening. 25:19 And so that was just really difficult, 25:21 where I was really bothered and seeing how I allowed myself 25:25 to get to that point as that wasn't the plan. 25:27 I just planned to just, you know, 25:29 numb just to not think about what was going on. 25:31 And so by the following day, 25:33 I knew I had to go to work. 25:34 I was a lifeguard at that time. 25:36 And I knew that because it was a Sunday, 25:38 no one was going to be coming to the pool. 25:40 So I figured you know what, I'll just take a little nap, 25:42 no one's going to know. 25:44 And in that nap, 25:46 I ended up seeing myself getting re-baptized. 25:48 Wow. 25:50 So it was one of those moments where it was eye-opening for me 25:53 that God was meeting me in this place 25:55 because when my, 25:56 around the time when my parents divorced 25:57 when I was about 12 and 13, I did get baptized. 26:01 But that was only to appease Bible workers 26:03 who, you know, sometimes they can be a little bit eager, 26:06 which is understandable. 26:08 But at the same time, 26:09 I didn't really know God as a personal Savior. 26:11 And so at that time when that dream occurred, 26:14 where I saw myself getting re-baptized, 26:16 it was really a moment where I was seeing 26:18 that God was able to reach me at my lowest point. 26:21 So that was really the turning point for me, 26:23 where I was now seeing that I could call on God. 26:27 Because normally I had called on Him 26:30 when I was going through situations, 26:32 as I normally just saw him as a genie 26:34 that, you know, anytime I was like sexually active, 26:37 I just figured you know what, Lord, 26:39 just make sure I don't get pregnant 26:40 or have any STDs. 26:42 And it's honestly by His grace and His mercies 26:44 that nothing had happened throughout all those years, 26:46 because God knew that deep down, 26:48 if I were to get pregnant, 26:49 my plan was just to have an abortion. 26:51 And so just to see His grace, 26:52 how He had worked things out, 26:54 is still eye-opening to me. 26:55 It's still humbling to see that even in my own ignorance, 26:59 He was still working with me. 27:00 Yeah. Wow. 27:01 So you, I mean, you said, I'm just taking it all in. 27:05 Just put it out there. Yes. 27:07 And, you know, 27:08 I want to say that I really appreciate 27:10 your transparency, all... 27:12 And, Harrison, we'll be getting to you. 27:14 And I already know 27:16 that you are very transparent as well. 27:17 But I want to say 27:19 that I really appreciate your transparency 27:20 because there is somebody at home 27:22 that is struggling with the same things 27:25 that, you know, somebody might be struggling 27:27 with what you struggled with at one point, 27:28 somebody may be struggling with what you struggled with, 27:31 Kezia, and you, Harrison. 27:33 And so, you know, being open, honest, 27:35 transparent and having this conversation 27:38 is very important. 27:40 You know, something that transparency 27:42 and I would ask, 27:44 you know, whether you agree or not, 27:45 that's part of my recovery. 27:46 Yeah. Yeah. 27:48 That transparency reminds me 27:49 of what God has brought me through 27:50 and what I've been through and then it's like, 27:52 when I think about that guy 27:54 and what he went through all those years 27:55 in the gay culture is like, 27:57 all right, yeah, I don't want that anymore. 27:59 This is what I wanted. 28:00 It's affirming for me. 28:02 So that transparency, 28:03 I think is just as important for me as it is 28:05 for someone that might be listening. 28:06 Amen. 28:08 So, Kezia, let's go back to where, 28:10 you know, you start walking with Christ, 28:12 you had the dream about being re-baptized. 28:14 Yes. 28:15 And so let's transition into you 28:18 walking with Christ now. 28:19 And what did that look like? 28:21 For the most part, it seemed very typical nothing. 28:25 Some things did change for sure. 28:26 Like when it came to the smoking 28:28 and the partying, 28:29 I did let go of that. 28:30 But when it came to the sexual activities 28:33 that I was still doing, 28:34 I realized that was the hardest thing 28:35 for me to let go of 28:37 as I was learning to walk with God, 28:38 as I was learning to not go to church 28:40 on my own 28:42 learning to open the Bible on my own, 28:44 learning to pray for myself. 28:45 So there was, there were things 28:47 that were gradually changing over time, 28:50 but I realized that when it came to sexuality, 28:52 when it came to pornography and masturbation, 28:55 that was really the hardest thing 28:56 for me to let go of. 28:58 And so I had desires to go on mission trips 29:01 just to become more active in doing God's work. 29:04 And so I was able to go to Cuba for a mission trip. 29:07 And on that mission trip, that's where I came across 29:10 'Coming Out' Ministries... 29:11 As we were on the team together. 29:13 And so that's where God really showed me 29:15 that what I was going through 29:17 in regards to the sexual addiction, 29:18 the pornography, that I had to let go of that. 29:21 So as I was doing God's work, 29:24 that's where he really met me now that he was telling me 29:27 to let go of what I was holding onto. 29:29 Yes. 29:30 And then there was also a situation where you had... 29:33 What was it, there was a twist in your hair, 29:35 what did you have in your hair 29:37 that led to an uncomfortable conversation? 29:39 Yes, it did. 29:41 So while we were in Cuba, we were there for two weeks. 29:43 I know I had to leave a few days earlier, 29:45 to go back to work 29:46 and so there were a lot of things 29:49 that had happened within the trip in Cuba, 29:51 where I was seeing that God was telling me 29:53 to let go of the pornography and the masturbation. 29:56 There really was one time that really stuck out to me 29:58 where during our morning devotions, 30:00 we would come together 30:01 and in the midst of the morning time, 30:03 the sun is shining 30:05 and I remember just hearing Mike mentioning 30:07 during our devotion time 30:09 that pornography to him was his best friend, 30:12 that at any time he felt lonely, 30:14 tired or angry, he would turn to it. 30:16 And so I remember 30:17 just sitting there with my sunglasses on 30:19 because it was sunny and I just started to tear up 30:21 because it really hit me 30:22 that what I was quietly going through 30:25 was really just hurting me. 30:26 And so it took time for me to recognize that, 30:29 you know, what I was doing was not healthy for me. 30:31 And so, from that situation and several other situations 30:35 that God allowed to happen, 30:36 it showed me that it was time for me 30:38 to truly and seriously let go. 30:40 But it really wasn't until I went back to Florida, 30:43 where Mike so happened to have to, 30:45 he had to come to Florida as well. 30:47 And I had twisted my hair, 30:49 and I needed help just taking it out 30:51 and it was a day 30:53 where I knew I had to do my hair 30:55 to take it out 30:56 but also that was Mike's only time 30:58 to come to Florida. 31:00 So I was hesitant in going to talk with him 31:02 because I knew this was now a time to really unload, 31:05 to unpack. 31:06 And so I was hesitant with even, you know, 31:09 really going to talk about it. 31:10 So I told him over phone... Wasn't it your out? 31:13 It's like, "Oh, where's the time, God, 31:15 I got to take out my hair." 31:16 Yeah, I was like, "I don't think I could come. 31:17 I have to do my hair." 31:19 That almost sounds like a date excuse. 31:23 So I was just like... You had a date with Jesus. 31:26 I did. 31:27 And so I just told him I was like, you know, 31:29 "Well, I won't be able to come anymore 31:31 because I have to take out my hair." 31:33 And he was like, "Oh, don't worry about it, 31:35 I could help you." 31:36 And at that time, I was just thinking to myself, 31:37 you know, "What does this white man 31:39 know about hair?" 31:40 And I didn't know 31:41 that he was actually a hairdresser. 31:43 And so when we came to gather we were talking... 31:44 Not just about hair, 31:45 but your particular style of hair, yeah. 31:48 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Precisely. 31:49 So I was just really shocked. 31:51 And so we finally met up, we spoke for the whole day, 31:53 he was helping me taking out my hair. 31:55 And at that moment, as he was helping me, 31:58 you know, unravel my hair there was also work 32:01 that was going on within me internally and spiritually. 32:04 So as we were physically just taking out my hair, 32:07 there was also just the internal work 32:09 where now I was realizing that God was asking me 32:12 to let go of the things I was holding onto, 32:14 the pains and the traumas, 32:15 the things I was holding onto for all those years. 32:18 But it was one of those moments where I cherish 32:21 because I was seeing that God was really patient with me. 32:23 Yeah. 32:24 Because even though I had that dream, 32:26 it wasn't a moment where I just said, 32:27 "Okay, you know, I'm letting go of everything." 32:29 But it took time for me to get to that place 32:31 where I was ready and willing to finally surrender to Him. 32:34 Amen. 32:36 So God was using that situation. 32:37 Yeah. 32:39 He was constantly just saying, Kezia, like, 32:40 "Come back to me, come back to me, 32:41 come back to me." 32:43 Yeah. 32:44 And He was just showing His love to you and for you. 32:48 That's incredible. 32:49 And a situation where, you know, 32:51 it involves just taking hair out. 32:53 And the conversation 32:55 God was speaking through you to her. 32:57 I mean, that is amazing. 32:59 Harrison, let's go ahead and hear your journey. 33:03 And let's start with your childhood. 33:06 Yes, well, as you have been seeing, 33:09 there is a problem of identity, 33:12 you know, the identity problem with Michael, 33:14 Kezia and myself also, 33:16 because I was born in an Adventist home. 33:19 So my identity, my spiritual identity 33:22 was the thing that I didn't know 33:25 how to get together, you know, 33:30 and so being in an Adventist home, 33:34 well, I thought 33:36 that it's supposed to be a safeguard, 33:39 you know for the children, for the family itself. 33:44 But in my case I was in a family 33:47 that when we went to the church, 33:50 everything was okay, was good, 33:53 all the people have this, an example... 33:57 They put the perfect face on. 33:58 Yes, the perfect face. 33:59 But when we get home, when we come back to home, 34:03 it was totally different. 34:05 Was many... 34:07 My parents arguing constantly, 34:12 fighting, physically violence, 34:17 me trying to be protective to my brothers also so... 34:23 Your brothers, you have younger brothers? 34:24 Yes I have. I am the oldest one. 34:27 Okay, okay. Yes. 34:28 So it was too difficult for me to understand, 34:32 "Okay, why in the church we need to be like this 34:38 being or acting like this 34:41 and in home it's completely different?" 34:43 "It should be the same in both places." 34:49 But it was too difficult for me so there was a moment 34:54 when I said, 34:55 "I don't really want to be like my parents. 34:58 I'm tired of this." 35:01 I don't even have in my mind 35:06 happy moments with them. 35:08 Or maybe a moment of study the Bible 35:12 or a moment of prayer 35:14 so for me the religion was, okay, 35:17 let's go to church, go sit down, be quiet. 35:23 Pay attention to the preacher. 35:26 Be part of the different activities 35:28 that the church 35:31 gives you like the adventurers club, 35:34 pathfinders. 35:37 Cheering choir, etc. So that was my life. 35:41 So your idea of Christianity was basically 35:46 the outward appearance 35:47 but not having that inward transformation. 35:50 That's right. That's right. 35:51 So there was, there was a moment 35:53 when I was 11, 12 years old, when I was in my school, 35:58 it was an public school, 36:01 there was a classmate that they were talking, 36:06 they were talking about sexuality. 36:08 They were talking 36:10 about masturbation and pornography. 36:12 At the moment, I didn't know 36:13 what they were talking about. 36:15 But that curiosity took me and so I fail on those sins... 36:20 At 11 or 12 years old? Eleven years old. 36:22 And that's exactly 36:24 why towards the beginning of this, 36:26 you know, we've made the disclaimer for parents 36:29 to watch this program first 36:31 and then determine whether or not 36:33 they want to share it with their children. 36:35 Because as you just stated, you were 11 or 12 years old, 36:39 when you were approached 36:40 about masturbation and pornography. 36:43 Kezia was four. Yeah, yeah. 36:45 I mean, it's starting earlier and earlier. 36:48 And if we're not sharing God's truth with people, 36:52 you know, they're finding their information, 36:55 but they're getting misinformation 36:56 and they're getting it from their peers. 36:58 They're getting it from the streets. 36:59 They're getting from all kinds of different places, 37:02 and it's leading them down the devil's path, 37:04 as opposed to God's path. 37:06 That's right. Please continue. 37:08 So at that moment, 37:09 I thought that it was something normal for men. 37:14 I was certainly, you know, keeping it in secret 37:16 from my parents, from my family, 37:18 but been talking about these kind of things 37:21 with my classmates, my friends, 37:25 and I even was like that kind of child 37:29 that start to make fun of those who were not practicing that. 37:35 And even we were the kind of saying, 37:38 "Oh, if you are not doing that, you are gay." 37:42 So that's what we thought. Oh, wow. 37:44 And I remember one day, 37:46 I remember one day and I understood 37:49 these until in my adulthood. 37:52 Mm-hmm. Adulthood. 37:55 Yes, because I remember 37:59 making fun of one of my friends, 38:01 and he said to me, 38:03 "No, that's not correct. 38:04 That's not good. 38:06 That is that is something that we need to wait for 38:10 when we are married." 38:11 And I thought at that moment that he was crazy. 38:15 I said, "This is normal, why are you saying that?" 38:18 But right now I understand 38:20 how important is that the parents take time 38:25 to talk to their children, 38:28 because he was receiving the right information. 38:31 Yeah. 38:32 He was receiving the right information and so... 38:35 Right now I understand, but it is so sad for me to say, 38:39 "Okay, well, I didn't have that opportunity 38:42 to receive that counsel from my parents." 38:45 And I don't want to use 38:50 putting my parents, 38:52 you know, as the or you know, hitting to my parents 38:57 or making them, the word... 39:02 Yes, look bad, you know, 39:04 they didn't have the information, 39:05 they didn't have that relationship with God 39:09 in order to give us to us the same thing. 39:13 So because they came from a difficult situation 39:18 in their families too. 39:20 So when I was 19 years old, 39:25 I decided to leave the church 39:27 because I was tired about everything there. 39:30 I didn't want to be more part of the activities 39:35 and I wanted to know what the world could... 39:38 You thought it was going to be greener on the other side. 39:40 Give to me. 39:41 Right. Right. Yeah. 39:42 So I say, "Well, if well, 39:45 I need to know 39:47 what's the difference of these." 39:49 So when I left, 39:51 I started to go to bars, to get drunk, 39:55 to party with my friends, 39:58 and eventually I wanted to get deeper 40:02 into the music, 40:04 the music scene. 40:08 I wanted to be a DJ at the moment, 40:10 yes, but it was something that I was from my childhood 40:15 because my parents they were used to listen Christian 40:20 and worldly music at the same time. 40:23 So even that I didn't have the, the different. 40:25 Okay, this music talks about God 40:28 that this other music, well, is normal. 40:30 All the people listen to it. 40:33 So there is no problem. 40:36 The Bible says that, you know, 40:38 a double minded man is unstable in all his ways. 40:40 And it sounds like what you saw as a child 40:43 was that double mindedness, one face at church, 40:46 one face at home, 40:48 and then for you as a child, 40:50 like, that's very confusing. 40:52 It's confusing for an adult, 40:54 you know, so you being a little kid 40:57 that's really confusing, 40:58 especially when you're following 40:59 that leadership and it's not just your parents, 41:03 of course, we know that 41:04 you're not putting your parents down. 41:06 It's not just your parents that are like that. 41:08 There's a lot of people, you know, 41:10 just like people struggle with different things. 41:12 Like there are a lot of other people 41:13 that are like that as well. 41:15 So you wanted to be a DJ, 41:18 you left the church for a little while. 41:20 You got into the bar scene, 41:21 drinking and partying and stuff like that. 41:24 How did you transition out of that? 41:28 How did you come back to the Lord and gain 41:33 the victory or start to gain the victory? 41:35 Yes. 41:36 Well, there was a moment 41:37 that I went to visit my friends in the church. 41:41 So the preacher was talking about something 41:46 I don't exactly remember what he was saying, 41:49 but it touched my heart that I said, 41:51 "Well, I need to return to God's hands 41:54 because if I don't do it, 41:56 I will never come back." 41:59 So God has started to work in me. 42:01 I returned to church. 42:05 But that is something that I would like to say, 42:08 at that moment, well, practically all my life, 42:11 the church... 42:14 Well, in my church, my local church, 42:15 they were used to talk about, 42:17 now we are going to keep singing 42:20 until God comes. 42:22 So... 42:23 Wow, So they didn't believe it... 42:25 That was... 42:26 Yes, that was the message 42:27 that I was receiving all my life. 42:29 So imagine my identity as an accretion 42:32 as an Adventist was messed up. 42:35 So when I come back, 42:38 I didn't know that the problem 42:41 that I had was bad. 42:45 And then 42:47 when the time continued, 42:51 I realized when I started to meet 42:55 these people from another churches, 43:01 Adventist churches 43:02 but near or close to my local church 43:06 and there, they were, 43:08 they wanted to have that relationship with God. 43:10 So, in that moment, meeting them, 43:13 I understood 43:15 that what I was doing was not right. 43:17 Yes. 43:18 But I say, 43:20 why until now I am receiving this gospel, 43:24 this message all my life, 43:27 I told it was something different that, 43:29 okay, I have this problem but anyways, 43:32 God understands me. 43:34 And so I think 43:36 that only being here in the church 43:38 is enough to be saved. 43:41 But I understand that knowing them 43:44 and then I met people from UAC 43:49 and that was the moment 43:50 when I started to get 43:53 or to have that kind of relationship 43:56 with people 43:58 who really wanted to have a deeper relationship with God. 44:02 So then eventually I met 'Coming Out' Ministries 44:05 at 2016, 44:09 being part of USC, Costa Rica, 44:11 we brought them to our country. 44:14 And it was, for me, 44:17 it was difficult to understand 44:19 that even gay people could have victory 44:24 over their sin. 44:25 I didn't, it was so difficult. 44:29 I could not understand that, but I wanted to know, 44:33 what could that happen? 44:36 So I could be, yes. 44:39 You know, because in Hispanic culture, 44:41 homosexuality 44:42 is a very degraded kind of thing 44:45 and kind of in Hispanic culture, 44:47 it's like, that's the worst of the worst. 44:49 You just can't get any worse than that. 44:51 And there's no redemption for that. 44:52 Right. Okay. 44:53 It used to be that way in America too 44:55 but it became normalized. 44:57 It seems like... 44:58 Right. 45:00 As it is and also 45:01 in Latin American countries as well. 45:03 That's right. 45:04 So I understood that being with them 45:08 day by day in those, 45:09 in that event and so in the sense 45:12 that I need to have a deeper relationship with God. 45:16 I had the opportunity to baptize my dad, 45:19 me being as an elder, 45:21 and I don't at the moment 45:22 I started to have the real victory over my sins, 45:27 but then something that I understood 45:32 that, I learned is that 45:36 the victory is something daily 45:37 because there was a moment some several months 45:42 that I had victory, but then I fail again. 45:44 Yes. 45:46 I fail again 45:47 because I thought that problem was gone. 45:51 I said, "Okay, everything was gone 45:53 and I don't need to worry about it." 45:57 But then I fell again. 45:59 And I said, "Well what happened?" 46:02 But I remember a friend of mine, 46:03 he came to me 46:05 and I talked to him what happened. 46:07 And he said to me, 46:08 "You need to understand that the victory, 46:11 the yesterday's victory, 46:14 will not work for today. 46:16 And today's victory will not work for tomorrow." 46:19 It's something that is daily, it is something, 46:22 this is the real gospel that told, 46:26 what Jesus can do in us 46:30 if we put ourselves in His hands, 46:34 every day, every hour, every minute. 46:38 In other words, our identity is in Christ. 46:40 And, you know what, as we've been talking, like, 46:44 I've heard, you know, identity issue, 46:48 identity issue, identity issue, 46:50 you know, whether it was the double mindedness, 46:52 whether it was, you know, biracial and figuring that out, 46:56 and then the pain 46:57 from the separation of your parents 46:59 and all of that stuff. 47:00 Or whether it was you feeling like you were trapped 47:03 in a man's body, 47:05 like you were a girl trapped in a boy's body. 47:09 It was identity, identity, identity. 47:11 But our identity is in Christ. 47:14 I can't believe our time is running short. 47:17 But I want to talk about some tips, some tools, 47:23 some resources that people can implement 47:27 as they're seeking to gain victory. 47:31 The biggest tip I think for me was Philippians 2:5, 47:34 letting this mind be in you, 47:36 which was in Christ Jesus, 47:37 and somebody had to unpack that for me. 47:39 And it was when somebody said, 47:40 the only word you have 47:42 the right to do is the first word, let. 47:44 Means, give me permission 47:46 to put my mind inside your mind. 47:47 You know, Christ doesn't look at pornography, 47:49 He doesn't engage in masturbation 47:51 or pre-marital sex or those kind of things. 47:53 So if I want the mind of Christ, 47:55 I can have it at any time. 47:57 My victory isn't elusive, 47:58 and it isn't conditional 48:00 except as I give Christ permission 48:02 to give His mind to me, 48:03 and you know what, 48:05 there been many times when I'll say, 48:06 "Lord, there's dirty thoughts in my head." 48:08 And I'll say, "Lord, you know, I claim that promise, 48:10 you know, give me the mind of Christ." 48:11 And bam, 48:13 my next thought is about baseball, 48:14 and I, everyone knows, I hate baseball. 48:17 So God was able to do that miraculously for me 48:20 when I couldn't do that for myself. 48:21 That's my favorite tip. 48:24 Kezia. 48:26 For myself, the biggest thing was recognizing 48:28 that the mind that got me into this mess 48:30 would not be the same mind to free me from it. 48:32 So it really took me some time to really recognize 48:35 that I had to come to a place of realizing 48:39 that I really needed help, 48:40 acknowledging what was going on. 48:42 That's the biggest step. 48:43 Because Romans 12:2 talks about 48:45 be transformed by the renewing of your mind. 48:47 And so my mind had to be renewed. 48:49 Like, as Harrison had mentioned 48:50 that the victory that I had yesterday 48:52 is not the same victory that would keep me today, 48:55 that it's a daily process and learning about God. 48:57 I'm taking time out to really be intentional 49:00 in regards to my devotional time with God, 49:03 really seeking Him, getting to know who He is, 49:06 because as we were mentioning, 49:07 when it comes to our identity, 49:08 sometimes we place our identity in these things 49:10 that are inconsistent. 49:12 And so I had to learn 49:13 to really rely upon someone who is consistent. 49:16 And so that was learning about God, 49:18 learning about, 49:19 you know, how can I become more like Him? 49:21 How can I find comfort in Him, 49:23 despite the things that change within my life. 49:28 I'm speechless. You're ready to preach. 49:30 That was the closing prayer. Preach right there. 49:34 And, Harrison, really quick. 49:36 Yes, for me. 49:38 It is 1 John 5:4, 49:44 about the faith is a victory that overcomes a world. 49:48 That really makes sense to me 49:52 in the way that who is God. 49:56 God created everything that we see with eyes, 49:59 the sky, the sun, the different, 50:05 well, the nature, its era 50:07 but what can really do in my life 50:11 and we see miracles, okay. 50:13 This man was ill, had cancer and he was healed. 50:17 But what about our spiritual illness? 50:21 Yes. 50:22 And so when I put myself and say, 50:25 "No, God can give me the victory right now 50:28 at the moment of temptation," 50:29 as, because something happened to me 50:32 like Michael, 50:33 I say, "Okay, God, 50:35 I feel tempted right now. I cannot do anything by myself. 50:40 I will fall. 50:41 But I trust in You that You can take away 50:45 those thoughts right now 50:49 because You are my Creator and now You know me." 50:53 And so in that moment, 50:54 it was just a second, 50:57 I didn't have any thoughts 50:59 about that and he gave me victory. 51:01 And He keeps doing it. 51:03 Time after time. Time after time. 51:05 Amen. 51:06 Mike, you guys being 'Coming Out' Ministries, 51:09 go to different churches and all that stuff 51:11 and speak in schools and everything, 51:13 we're gonna go to your contact info 51:15 in a little bit. 51:16 Okay. 51:17 But I also want to share 51:19 what are some of your needs of the organization real quick? 51:22 Well, the Bible says, 51:23 "You have not because you ask not." 51:24 So I hate to talk about, you know, the money part 51:27 but what 'Coming Out' Ministries 51:28 really needs is committed people 51:30 that would be willing to on a monthly basis, 51:32 even just $2 a month or $20 a month, you know, 51:35 just sending that donation in to support the ministry 51:38 from within from our operating expenses, 51:41 and also 51:42 for the long term plans that we have. 51:43 Amen. 51:45 Well, we are going to put your contact information up 51:48 and we'll go to a news break and we'll be right back. 51:54 God's people are not immune to addictions, 51:56 and yet we have a God who can break them 51:58 and restore us to the men and women. 52:00 He always meant us to be. 52:02 Hear the experiences of those who have found a way out 52:04 through the transforming power of Jesus Christ. 52:07 If you'd like to find out more about 52:08 'Coming Out' Ministries just visit their website 52:11 ComingOutMinistries.org. 52:13 That's ComingOutMinistries.org. 52:16 You might also write them at Coming Out Ministries, 52:19 PO Box 107, Tilly, Arkansas 72679. |
Revised 2020-04-09