Participants: Steve Wohlberg (Host), Antionette Duck
Series Code: TAC
Program Code: TAC000005A
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00:08 When a woman has an abortion or, as they say,
00:11 terminates her pregnancy, has something subhuman 00:14 simply just been evacuated from her body... 00:16 or has the life of a person actually been taken? 00:20 And, what does the Bible say about this? 00:23 You'll find out next on "The Abortion Controversy" 00:54 Welcome to Part 5 of "The Abortion Controversy" 00:56 This is a 13-part series that deals with the big issues 00:59 of life and death given the pregnancy and abortion, 01:03 and whether it's right or wrong. 01:05 I'm Steve Wohlberg and I'm here in our White Horse Media Studio 01:09 with Antionette Duck. 01:10 She is the founder of a ministry called: "Mafgia" 01:15 She has a passion for life. 01:17 She was almost aborted when she was just a little baby 01:22 inside of her mother, but her mother changed 01:24 her mind and we believe that God's providence 01:27 was certainly involved in that, and she's here today 01:29 and she is a speaker, she is a writer, 01:31 and she has a lot to say about this. 01:33 Our topic today is: When is a person really a person?" 01:38 "The kiss for life," based upon the Bible. 01:42 Here we are again... Antionette, this has really 01:46 been a fascinating journey, and I think this is probably 01:50 one of our most important programs because, 01:51 as you know, there's a controversy swirling within 01:55 Christian churches within the religious world 01:58 about abortion and the Bible. 02:00 Some say, "Well, abortion is not forbidden in the Bible," 02:04 and they also say that a person is not a person 02:07 until actually the fetus pops out and takes a breath, 02:10 and so we're going to address this issue and try to do it 02:13 from Scripture as well. 02:14 So, where do you want to start as we move into this? 02:17 Well the first point that I would like to address is 02:21 this misconception that simply because the word "abortion" 02:26 does not appear in Scripture, or just other 02:28 religious authorities, that abortion is permissible. 02:31 Bioethicist, Scott Klusendorf, from The Life Training Institute 02:35 ... I really love his thought on this. 02:37 Is our position that the Bible condones everything 02:41 it does not explicitly condemn? 02:43 Would we really say that? 02:45 Couldn't we think of quite a few things that the Bible 02:47 doesn't actually condemn, but that would grieve 02:50 the Father's heart. Like cigars... 02:52 The Bible doesn't say... I've never read, 02:54 "Don't smoke cigars," but since the Bible is the 02:56 temple of God, and so we shouldn't be... 02:58 well, we're hurting ourselves if we do. 03:00 Absolutely, there are many things we could think of 03:02 that do grieve the Father's heart, 03:04 but they're not specifically listed here. 03:05 And so our position can't simply be, 03:08 "Well, the Bible doesn't say the word and so 03:11 the Lord has made it permissible. 03:14 We are to use Scripture to interpret itself, 03:17 and throughout the entirety of Scripture, 03:20 the value of the human being from creation to the cross, 03:23 to eternity, is proclaimed. 03:26 That's our position as a ministry, 03:28 and what we think really helps to clarify a lot of this issue. 03:31 We know that the Lord is our Creator... 03:34 In Psalms 95:6, it says, "Oh come let us worship 03:37 and bow down; let us kneel before the Lord our Maker." 03:41 In Isaiah 45:18, it says, "For thus says the Lord, 03:44 Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed 03:47 the earth and made it, Who established it, 03:49 Who did not create in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: 03:53 I am the Lord and there is no other." 03:55 And, in Revelation 4:11, we are told, 03:57 "You are worthy, oh Lord, our God to receive glory 04:00 and honor and power, for You created all things, 04:03 and by Your will they were created and have their being." 04:07 We know that we were made in the image of the Lord 04:09 that He is the one who established our humanity. 04:11 In Genesis 1:26-27, "Then God said, 04:15 Let us make man in our own image, 04:17 according to our likeness, let them have dominion 04:19 over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, 04:21 over cattle, over the earth, 04:22 and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 04:25 So God made man in His own image, in the image of God 04:27 He created them male and female He created them. 04:30 We focused on that in the last program, 04:31 we really zeroed in on that, that that's the foundation 04:33 of everything... is the creation account 04:36 and that God is our Maker and we're here for a reason. 04:39 And of course in Psalm 139... 04:41 I'd like to read that... Absolutely! 04:43 This has really impressed me. 04:46 This is Psalm 139:13-14, where David is talking to God 04:51 and David wrote, "You formed my inward parts. 04:56 You covered me in my mother's womb," or the margin says, 05:00 "You wove me in my mother's womb." 05:02 "I will praise you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made, 05:05 marvelous are Your works and that my soul knows very well." 05:09 I was dialoging with a friend of mine, a missionary friend, 05:13 and we were emailing back and forth 05:16 about whether a person is really a person 05:19 until you come out and take a breath. 05:22 And he wanted to know, "Well show me from the Bible 05:25 that a person is really a person inside the womb." 05:27 So I quoted this text where David said, 05:29 "You wove me in my mother's womb." 05:32 And I said to my friend, "David was me 05:36 when he was in there." 05:37 When my first... well, I have a daughter and a son, 05:40 but when Seth was inside of Kristin, we had an ultrasound 05:44 done and I still remember, he was inside 05:48 and the little camera, you know, zeroed in on him, 05:50 and he had his hands on his ears like this, 05:53 and he was just sort of in a certain position 05:55 and I remember distinctly recognizing that 06:00 after he was born that many times, he would be in that 06:02 same position and I thought to myself, 06:04 Seth was there and Seth was there - it was Seth! 06:07 It was my son. Yes, absolutely 06:09 We see that we're not merely human beings, 06:12 we're human beings created in the image of the Lord. 06:14 And in that passage, David is talking literally, 06:17 not just metaphorically, he's talking literally 06:19 about the care with which the Lord crafted his being, 06:22 and it wasn't just after he was born, it was when he was 06:26 unformed and forming, and when was that happening... 06:28 from the beginning, from conception in those 06:30 early moments and in those early months. 06:32 It's an incredible process, isn't it? Absolutely! 06:35 We'll talk about later the scientific evidence, 06:37 but just when you really understand what's going on 06:40 in there, it's definitely, as the Bible says, 06:44 where David says, "Marvelous are Your works," 06:47 and I can't imagine how any Christian wouldn't recognize 06:52 that that was the work of God 06:54 as well inside of a woman's body. 06:57 Yes, and so we see then that being fearfully 07:00 and wonderfully made, it wasn't for David alone. 07:03 That applies to each and every human being 07:05 who has ever walked the face of the earth, 07:07 from our very beginning till we take our last breath... 07:10 the Lord's hand has been on us. 07:12 Now, there are certain verses that I've discovered 07:15 in my research and you've been reading about 07:16 this for a lot longer than I have. Yes 07:18 I'm fairly new to this, but I'm a fast learner. 07:20 I've learned that there are a number of Bible verses 07:22 that are used to support the theory that 07:27 a human being really isn't a person or a soul 07:31 until they come out and take a breath. 07:33 And, what's the main text that is used to support that theory? 07:37 I believe that's Genesis 2:7. 07:39 Should I read it, or would you like to? Sure 07:42 It says, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust 07:45 of the ground and breathed into his nostrils 07:48 the breath of life and man became a living being." 07:51 People have used this verse as evidence that 07:56 you're not actually alive until you come out of the womb 07:59 and you take a breath through your nostrils. 08:02 There are several problems with this just on a practical level. 08:06 First, there are some babies who are born 08:09 and they don't actually breathe through their nostrils 08:11 for several minutes. 08:14 Does that mean that because they haven't 08:16 breathed through their nostrils that their parents 08:18 would then be allowed to take them and end their life? 08:21 Well, no one would say "yes" because everyone would say, 08:24 "Well no, the baby is out in the world, 08:25 it's now a human being." 08:29 We can't then make that argument that because 08:32 that was the way that Adam breathed through his nostrils, 08:35 that that then applies to the child as well. 08:39 On another level, when we say that this is how Adam 08:43 became a living being, because the Lord breathed 08:45 into him, He breathed through his nostrils, 08:47 and... the breath of life. Right, the breath of life. 08:49 Then he became a living soul. Right 08:51 When we equate Adam to the unborn, 08:54 we're saying that at their very beginning, 08:57 they were the same and they simply were not. 09:00 Creation and procreation are night and day totally different. 09:04 From the beginning and we will explore this more 09:06 in the scientific defense of the unborn, 09:09 but from its earliest moments, the unborn is alive. 09:12 We know that scientifically. 09:15 The unborn is also receiving oxygen as it is 09:19 in that gestational period from its mother. 09:22 Adam, at his very beginning, was formed. 09:26 He was a form of a man, but he was not alive. 09:29 He was inanimate clay, he was just lifeless. 09:33 Absolutely... he needed the breath of life to become alive. 09:37 To jumpstart him! Absolutely 09:39 The unborn is already alive. 09:41 They've already been jumpstarted. Yes! 09:43 And so, I mean Eve, when God took Adam's rib, 09:46 and made a woman, she was alive, 09:49 and then as the baby is then conceived, 09:51 and then begins to grow, that baby is alive, 09:54 and to correlate and say because Adam needed the breath of life 09:58 in order for an inanimate object or inanimate person 10:02 to become a real person or a real soul 10:04 based on Genesis 2:7, then to move from there 10:07 to a life coming out and breathing, 10:09 then they become a living soul, it's apples and oranges. 10:12 It's totally different, it really is. Yes 10:15 Vastly different and, as you mentioned, 10:16 it also... well to me, it assumes that the 10:19 breath of life is oxygen. 10:20 Now, if it is oxygen, then still the baby has oxygenated blood 10:26 as it is growing in the womb. Yes 10:28 And so, to me, it's just a huge jump leap in logic 10:33 to look at the creation of Adam and say - until a baby comes 10:36 out and breathes or at least breathes through the nose, 10:40 then it's a living soul. Yes 10:42 I just can't see it. Yes, absolutely 10:44 Well, and as I read "Greg Koukl," a bioethicist, 10:48 with "Stand to Reason" said: 10:50 "Basically, this verse proves that you need the breath 10:54 of the Lord to, as you said, jumpstart an inanimate object 10:57 made out of clay - that's in essence 11:00 what this verse has proven here. 11:01 Right, I want to just read a quotation from the 11:04 world famous medical director, he is dead now, 11:07 of Battle Creek Sanitarium, years ago, 11:09 Dr. John Harvey Kellogg. 11:10 He was one of the most well- known physicians of his time, 11:12 and in little book he wrote called: 11:14 "Man, the Masterpiece" in 1894. 11:17 He said that "from the very moment of conception," 11:21 he said, "processes have been in operation which result 11:25 in the production of a fully developed human being 11:28 from a minute cell. 11:30 As soon as this development begins, 11:32 a new human being has come into existence." 11:35 So, he is very clear on this, and I think we can continue to 11:40 build our case that that is the truth. 11:41 I mean, David said, "You wove me in my mother's womb." 11:46 It was Him and I think whether Seth was 11:49 inside or outside, it was still Seth. 11:52 We're inside a building right now and when we go outside, 11:55 we're still us. 11:56 We're who we are inside and we're who we are outside 12:00 that in the fetus' case, and from what I understand, 12:02 "fetus" is Latin for "little person." Absolutely 12:05 Little person that whether they're growing and developing, 12:10 they're still who they are even before they come out 12:14 and take their first breath whether it's from 12:16 the nose or from the mouth. 12:17 Seth, when he came flying out and I was right there, 12:20 he was screaming and I'm pretty sure that 12:23 his breathing was coming from the mouth, not from the nose, 12:26 at least right away. 12:27 What I also think is interesting before we move 12:28 on is the Bible, when it refers to the unborn, 12:32 a baby in the womb versus a baby outside of the womb, 12:35 in the Greek, the same word is used "brephos." 12:39 It's used to refer to the baby. 12:41 We see that in Luke 1:41-44, where Mary went to Elizabeth 12:47 and the baby leaped in Elizabeth's womb... 12:50 That was John... Yes, John the Baptist 12:54 leaped in her womb. 12:55 The word in the Greek that's used there is "brephos," 12:59 when the babe leaped in her womb. 13:03 In Luke 2:12, then when we're referring to the Savior, 13:06 who is now born in the world, in the manger, 13:09 the same word in the Greek is used to refer to the Savior. 13:13 The Scripture is not drawing a distinction in value there. 13:16 It's not calling the baby inside the womb by a certain term, 13:19 and calling the baby outside the womb by a different terminology 13:23 to somehow establish a subhuman versus human value scale. Right 13:29 The baby is human from the beginning 13:31 throughout until it's born. 13:33 Got it. Now, what about... there are other Scriptures 13:37 we've looked at Genesis 2:7 briefly. 13:39 There are other Scriptures that are used, a couple of them. 13:42 There's one in Exodus 21, there is one in Numbers 5 13:44 that are used and I've read these arguments. 13:46 People have used these arguments, these Scriptures 13:48 to try to prove that a fetus is subhuman, 13:53 and, you know, that's not really a person. 13:56 So let's just - why don't we look at those verses? Sure! 13:59 Exodus 21:22 is one that is quite controversial... 14:06 Okay, I'll get there as quick as I can. 14:12 Exodus 21... All right, I'll just read it, 14:14 and then you can comment. Absolutely 14:16 Verse 22 says, "If men fight..." I'm assuming it's 2 men fighting 14:20 ... and they hurt a woman with child... 14:21 and I'm assuming that means that the wife has 14:24 gotten involved in the tussle... got 2 men fighting 14:27 and the wife gets in the middle of this... 14:29 "... and so that she gives birth prematurely, 14:32 yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished..." 14:35 meaning the other person, not the husband, 14:37 "he shall be punished according as the woman's husband 14:39 imposes on him and he shall pay as the judges determine." 14:44 And I've heard this interpreted to mean that the 14:47 fetus, which supposedly there is a miscarriage, dies, 14:54 that if the fetus was truly a person, then God would 14:58 give a more stricter punishment, but the punishment is 15:01 simply a fine that the husband imposes upon the other man, 15:05 and they use that term to prove that, really, 15:08 it's just something subhuman in there. 15:10 What do you think about that? 15:11 Well, I think, first of all, the Lord is simple. 15:17 He's not complicated, He is very complex, 15:20 but He asks us to come to Him with faith like a child. 15:23 ... Not seeking to twist things to make them mean 15:26 what we want them to mean, but approaching His word simply. 15:28 Just reading this text on its face, we have on scenario. 15:33 The scenario is... 2 men are fighting, they strike a woman, 15:36 and her child comes forth. 15:38 If no harm follows, then the person who hit her, 15:43 will pay a fine. 15:45 Same scenario... 2 men are fighting, they hit a woman 15:48 and a child comes forth, if any harm follows, 15:51 it will be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, 15:55 burn for burn, stripe for stripe. 15:56 Just reading the text on its face, 15:59 the context doesn't imply death. 16:04 It implies a child coming forth and it's the same 16:09 scenario both times where we're talking about 16:12 harm that either is done or not done, 16:14 both to the mother and to the child. 16:17 If the child comes forth and no harm follows... 16:20 Well, the implication that is no harm to the mother, 16:23 and no harm to the child. 16:24 So people are reading into this that the baby is dead. 16:26 Yes, and in the research that I did... 16:30 phenomenal research has been done by many people 16:34 interested in this issue. 16:36 One of them is "Stand to Reason Organization" 16:39 that's just really wonderful. 16:41 I read about the Hebrew, the way that the actual Hebrew 16:45 that's used here, there are two Hebrew terms... 16:49 "Yalid and yasha" and I may or may not be 16:51 pronouncing those correctly. 16:52 But they refer to the child coming forth, 16:57 and they do say that a child comes forth in the Hebrew. 17:01 What's fascinating is this term "yasha," when it's used, 17:05 throughout Scripture, it's always used in the context 17:09 of life - something coming forward. 17:14 The Lord said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures." 17:18 When the Lord was talking to Noah, he said, "Bring out 17:21 with you every living thing of all flesh." 17:24 And these are all in Genesis... 17:28 "Then man will not be your heir, but one who shall 17:30 come forth from your own body." 17:33 Again in Genesis... "Now the first came forth 17:35 all over like a hairy garment." Talking about Esau, 17:38 when Jacob and Esau were born. 17:41 It's the same word, "yasha," 17:42 and it's used in the context of life. 17:44 I've heard that some Jewish scholars will say that 17:46 the baby did die, but that doesn't necessarily mean 17:49 that that's what happened, that's just their view. 17:51 A friend of mine, as we researched this and he 17:54 explained to me, he said, "Really, what's 17:56 happening is that God cannot and does not justly 18:00 assign blame, full blame in the situation 18:02 because there's three people involved. 18:04 The woman might have just run into the fight, 18:06 she might have fallen down, the husband might have 18:10 hit her a little bit or the other man might have 18:12 hit her and so it's hard to assign blame, 18:15 and there might have been other factors. 18:16 So the reason why God doesn't give a stronger punishment 18:20 is simply because it's impossible to assign full flame 18:22 in the situation and as you said, 18:24 we don't even know that the baby has died, 18:26 and so, He gives a reasonable consequence which is a fine. 18:31 But to take this text and to use it to mean 18:34 that the fetus is subhuman because the fine was not 18:38 stricter, again, it's a big stretch just like in Genesis 2:7 18:42 Now, we've got to move along... 18:43 Let's go to the other one in the book of Numbers 18:46 because I know that's another verse that's used Numbers 5, 18:50 and these are verses that I've encountered as 18:52 I've been studying this. 18:54 Numbers 5 talks about a woman who is unfaithful 18:58 evidently to her husband, and she is then brought 19:02 before the priest and the priest does a test 19:06 to see whether she is lying or not; 19:08 whether she really was with another man or not. Yes 19:10 And that's in Numbers 5:11 onward and in verse 17, 19:17 the priest takes certain holy water and he has her drink it, 19:21 and then it says in verse 22, "May this water that causes 19:26 the curse go into your stomach and make your belly swell 19:29 and your thigh rot if she is guilty, 19:31 but if she's not guilty, then verse 28 says, 19:34 "The woman has really not defiled herself, 19:36 she is clean and then she is free and may conceive children." 19:40 Yes... So comment on that. 19:43 Well okay, some have read that the thigh rotting 19:47 it's actually a euphemism for the reproductive system, 19:50 and so when her belly would swell and her thigh would rot, 19:53 that means something happened to her reproductively. 19:57 Now, proponents of abortion would say, 20:01 having read into this text, that this woman was pregnant 20:04 and so when her thigh rots, that's the child being 20:08 expelled from her body or having a miscarriage. 20:11 I've heard people say that God is really causing an abortion 20:13 so if God did it, then... it must be okay 20:15 or at least in some situations. Yes 20:17 That has been an interpretation. 20:20 The problem... there are a couple of problems with that. 20:24 The first is the text doesn't say anything about 20:26 the woman being pregnant. 20:28 It doesn't give any indication with that. 20:30 That really is being read into the text. 20:33 The second is, if when we read the text itself, 20:38 it says that, "if she is found innocent, she will be 20:43 released and she will still be able to conceive children." 20:47 Well, what's the opposite of being able to conceive? 20:49 It's barrenness, and so a solid interpretation of this 20:54 would be her thigh rotting, she's struck barren, 20:58 she's no longer able to bear children, 21:00 if in fact she was lying. 21:02 And in that case, it's a judgment of God. 21:05 It's not any kind of allowance for abortion. Yes! 21:12 A totally different situation. Yes! 21:14 In both the Exodus passage and the Numbers passage, 21:16 there is a tendency to say, "Well, we think this caused 21:20 the child to die and so elective abortion is permissible." 21:24 Elective abortion is an intentional act where 21:27 the life of an innocent human being is taken. 21:31 Particularly in the Numbers passage, 21:33 if, in fact, she had been pregnant and she had lost 21:36 the child, that was from the hand of the Lord, 21:39 that was not a carte blanche permission for us to 21:44 then go ahead and take the lives of our unborn children. 21:47 Got it, got it... So Genesis 2:7 about Adam 21:50 becoming a living soul is not a model for a person 21:55 becoming a person when they breathe because it's 21:56 totally different from what happens in procreation. 21:59 And Exodus 21 is not assigning the fetus to a subhuman 22:05 status when you really look at the context, 22:07 and Numbers 5 is not even really dealing with abortion at all, 22:11 and we don't even know if the woman was pregnant. Yes 22:13 She's probably just having a judgment upon her 22:15 so she can't have children. 22:17 So these Scriptures are really being, as I see it, 22:21 Peter talks about people that twist the Scriptures, 22:25 and they read in and they take them where God really didn't 22:30 intend for them to be taken. 22:32 And I've seen in print these interpretations, 22:37 and I've looked at the verses myself and I've just thought, 22:39 "How do they get that?" 22:41 It's just really not there. Yes 22:43 Well what's really fascinating, going back to the 22:47 Numbers passages briefly, this idea that, 22:49 "Well the Lord did it and so I'm allowed to do it too," 22:52 if you consider the story of David and Bathsheba, 22:54 David had an affair with Bathsheba, she got pregnant, 22:58 and the punishment was that he was going to lose that child. 23:01 But the child was born and the 23:04 Lord allowed the child's life to be taken. 23:06 That was not a permission for David to go forward 23:10 and take the life of his born children simply because 23:14 something has happened... and again, 23:16 this text is not at all clear that that is what happened 23:19 as if she had a miscarriage or an abortion. 23:21 But simply because the Lord acted in a certain way, 23:25 that doesn't mean that we're allowed to take it 23:27 upon ourselves to do that particularly when 23:33 it's taking the life of an innocent human being. 23:35 Right, and we need to look at all the Bible. 23:37 We need to look at the whole Scripture, 23:38 and to me, the situation with John the Baptist 23:42 inside of Elizabeth's body when Elizabeth 23:45 ran into Mary and they met each other, 23:47 and it says that "the babe leaped in her womb," 23:50 and it says, "for joy." 23:52 For joy... that shows me that was a happy camper! 23:56 That was a happy little guy, little Johnny that was 23:59 inside there... and that's the Word of God. 24:03 And to say that, "Well, he wasn't really a person, 24:06 or he wasn't really a soul until he came out," 24:08 you know, to me, it just doesn't make sense. 24:11 Someone that I work with told me recently that 24:13 there was one situation where there was an ultrasound done 24:15 on twins, 2 little girls that were inside the mommy, 24:20 and that the ultrasound showed them holding hands 24:24 together inside and then when they were born, 24:28 it wasn't long after that when they were together, 24:30 you know, lying next to each other, 24:32 and they're holding hands still. 24:34 And it was just so touching and I think to myself, 24:36 "These little girls, once they eventually got names, 24:40 maybe they had been named before they came out, 24:43 it's them there and it's them there whether they're in 24:47 or whether they're out, it's those little girls. Yes 24:50 And, I mean, my little boy was my little boy; 24:53 when he was inside, we talked to Seth before he came out. 24:56 We talked to Abby and it just doesn't make sense 25:00 to me logically and biblically and we'll look in the next 25:04 program, scientifically, that a person is a person 25:08 when they're inside and then when they come out, 25:11 they're just developing more. 25:14 Yes, yes, yes - from conception. 25:17 As we've seen in Scripture, it was the Lord who 25:19 established our value, made in His image 25:21 and, hopefully, we'll begin to accept that as a people. 25:25 Right, all Christians need to really understand that. 25:28 We need to look and see what the Bible says and 25:30 we need to be aware of different interpretations, 25:34 but we need to look to the Bible ourselves 25:36 to see what saith the Lord. Yes 25:38 And, to me, it's just so clear this passage again in Psalm 139. 25:44 As I mentioned, I have a friend of mine that we were 25:46 dialoging about this and I showed him this text, 25:50 and he didn't have a good answer that this was not David 25:55 when he was there growing inside of his mother. 26:00 And so, may God help us to stick with His Word, 26:06 and as we wrap up this program, again just want to zero in 26:10 on Psalm 139:13-14; we started with these verses 26:14 and these are just so clear. 26:17 David said about God, he said, "You formed my inward parts. 26:24 You covered or wove me in my mother's womb. 26:31 I will praise You for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. 26:37 Marvelous are your works, 26:40 and that my soul knows very well." 26:45 God wants us to know this. 26:47 He wants us to know His Word. 26:49 He wants us to know that He formed you, He formed me, 26:53 He formed us all way back inside the womb. 26:56 It's a miracle of life. It's a miracle of procreation. 26:59 There's no comparison, really, in anything in the world to 27:05 the formation of a human being inside the body. 27:10 And, God values us, He loves us. 27:12 He created us. He formed us. 27:13 He has an eternal plan for our lives. 27:15 He has an eternal plan for YOU! 27:17 And we want you to know that God and to find happiness 27:21 in the fact that He loves you 27:23 and He has an eternal plan for your life. 27:25 Dianne Wagner and Antoinette Duck 27:27 share powerful life-changing information in this 27:30 13-part series, "The Abortion Controversy" 27:34 To order this 6-1/2 hour DVD set for only $34.95, 27:38 call the following: 27:45 Or you can write to the following: 27:51 Or order online at www.whitehorsemedia.com 27:56 If you have been blessed by today's program, 27:58 and would like to help "White Horse Media" with 28:00 your financial support, you can call our toll free number 28:04 listed on the screen or donate online at whitehorsemedia.com |
Revised 2015-09-03