Pure Choices

Sheltering Trees

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Wayne Blakely (Host), Mary Lou Erwin, Sharri Scott

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Series Code: PC

Program Code: PC000117A


00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned
00:04 that some material may be too candid
00:06 for younger children.
00:40 Welcome to Pure Choices.
00:41 My name is Wayne Blakely from Coming Out Ministries.
00:44 Today I'm here with my guest,
00:46 Marie Lou Erwin and Sharri Scott.
00:49 You know, when I came out to my parents,
00:54 it was after an attempt at suicide.
00:58 And everything was centered on me
01:02 and about how I felt.
01:05 I'm not sure that I put much emphasis
01:08 or consideration into how my parents felt.
01:12 And today, I think that we're breaking new territory,
01:16 and speaking to very loving parents
01:20 of gay children,
01:22 who may or may not have suspected at some point
01:26 that their child might come out
01:29 and tell them that they were gay.
01:30 I'm guessing probably in most situations,
01:32 it wasn't expected.
01:35 I'm thrilled to death,
01:37 that you have accepted an invitation
01:40 to talk about your lives
01:43 and how the information about being a parent
01:47 of a gay son, or a gay daughter,
01:51 or daughters affected you.
01:54 And not only that,
01:56 but how this affects other parents today.
02:02 Sharri, I began to communicate with you some time ago,
02:07 and you were kind enough to share with me a story.
02:12 I'm wondering
02:13 if you might share a little bit of that with us.
02:15 Sure, I can do that.
02:18 Our journey began about four years ago.
02:21 My youngest daughter
02:22 invited me out for lunch one day,
02:24 and shared with me about a lifestyle
02:27 I never expected to see her enter into.
02:30 And I went home, I told my husband about it,
02:35 we were both very broken up, very sad,
02:39 very blaming ourselves.
02:41 And we just--
02:43 we're starting to get our feet under us again after that.
02:45 And about five months later,
02:47 our older daughter also invited me out for lunch,
02:50 and shared with me about her life,
02:53 what I certainly didn't expect there either.
02:55 And I--
02:57 Again I was in the position of having to tell my husband,
03:00 and I didn't want to do it, because he was so sad
03:04 and so broken by the first news.
03:07 I just thought how can I break his heart and tell him this.
03:09 So I actually held it to myself for probably about a month.
03:14 We were on a summer vacation
03:16 and he could tell there was something bothering me.
03:19 And so one day he took me out for a walk
03:22 and got me to tell what was going on.
03:25 And I told him and we were both, you know,
03:28 both just so sad over the whole thing.
03:31 So how did you process that information,
03:36 I not being a parent,
03:37 I'm not sure how that would land.
03:39 Oh, having it--
03:40 you start with just blaming yourself,
03:43 and the enemy reminds you
03:45 of every wrong thing you ever did,
03:47 and just, you know, heaps around you that,
03:51 you know, this is all your fault.
03:53 If you had had your eyes open, if you'd been watching,
03:55 if you'd been a better mom, this wouldn't have happened.
03:58 Right, right. So.
04:00 Oh, wow.
04:02 I remember the depth and the pain
04:05 that I recognized when I read your email to me.
04:11 I knew a little bit about Mary Lou.
04:15 We had been communicating a little bit on Facebook.
04:18 And I know Mary Lou
04:20 that you have a son identified as gay.
04:23 And I have to say that in both,
04:26 in meeting both of you from the very beginning,
04:29 all I saw was this intense incredible love.
04:33 So can you share? Sure.
04:38 Well, what came about Kenneth was,
04:42 he was in his last year at Walla Walla,
04:44 and he was home on Christmas break.
04:46 And Walla Walla is...
04:47 A university, an Adventist university.
04:49 And he was in his room, and you know how parents are,
04:54 they periodically check the internet
04:56 to see where their kids had been.
04:58 We have done that forever.
04:59 So we happened to be--
05:01 Robert happened to be checking the internet,
05:04 and he saw a site that said, gaychristian.net.
05:08 And he showed it to me, we both looked at each other,
05:12 and we instinctively knew that it was,
05:15 which child it was.
05:18 So it was just a matter of going in,
05:20 he said, "What are we gonna do?"
05:22 And I said, "Well, we are gonna ask him."
05:23 So he went--
05:25 I went in, took in his room and ask him,
05:27 you know, "Are you gay?"
05:29 And he was stunned, wait and stunned,
05:36 and just quiet for, seemed like it forever.
05:39 And he said, "Yes."
05:40 And I think
05:42 it must have been a period of real relief for him.
05:45 Sure. You know.
05:46 He, as I look back now and know,
05:50 there weren't but a couple of people
05:51 that he'd shared it with.
05:53 But my first thinking was fear for him.
05:59 I remember the story about--
06:03 I can't remember now.
06:04 The young boy's name--
06:05 I think it was in Idaho, Sheppard was his last name.
06:08 Mathew Sheppard. Mathew Sheppard.
06:09 And I thought,
06:11 what are they gonna do to my child.
06:12 Right. You know.
06:14 Yeah, that's what was my first thought.
06:15 It wasn't a heaven or hell,
06:18 because I thought Kenneth is been brought up
06:19 in the truth.
06:20 He's gonna be, you know, he's gonna be celibate,
06:23 he's gonna be--
06:24 I don't have to worry about that,
06:25 but what is the world gonna do to my son.
06:28 And then the next thing I think that I felt was sadness
06:32 that he had carried this for so long.
06:35 And then, you know, so many things you go through.
06:38 I thought, "Oh, I wasn't a good enough mom,
06:42 that he could come to me and tell me about it,
06:43 that he had to share this--
06:45 keep this burden to himself, and not share it with me.
06:49 And, yeah, guilt, mothers are good at guilt.
06:51 Yeah. Sure.
06:52 So.
06:54 I'm just thinking, I remember a night--
06:57 a long after I had told my parents that I was gay.
07:01 And I was very frustrated.
07:03 And we had a tense conversation,
07:06 and I was in my parent's home,
07:07 and I had gone upstairs to the bedroom and laid down.
07:13 A little bit later, my mom came up,
07:17 and she lay down by me and she said,
07:21 "I don't know what to do about this,
07:23 but I want to tell you something,
07:24 that I love you no matter what."
07:27 And so, I know that there is a great sense of love
07:31 that comes from parents for their children.
07:33 And at the same time, I think, we have to consider,
07:40 we need to consider
07:41 of what this is like for a parent, thinking
07:45 that they have some kind of responsibility in this.
07:48 Today, I look at it from the standpoint
07:50 of knowing a lot better about it than I ever have.
07:53 Because we finally delved into the matter
07:55 looking at the fact
07:56 that we're all born with the sinful nature.
07:58 And we have the sins of our fathers on.
08:01 We have circumstances beyond our control.
08:04 Sometimes, molestation,
08:06 there are so many different reasons
08:08 that somebody can end up gay.
08:10 But it's so important today, that I convey,
08:12 and that we convey
08:14 that the parent not blame themselves
08:17 for causing something
08:19 that they weren't responsible for.
08:20 Now I have to add to that in situations
08:23 that it is possible
08:24 that a parent did molest their child,
08:27 and of course, that would be a whole different scenario,
08:29 different circumstance.
08:31 When I had the communication from both of you,
08:34 I began to think, I wonder if it would be helpful,
08:39 if these parents could talk to each other.
08:42 And initially, Sharri, there was great resistance,
08:46 you were like no, no.
08:48 Can you tell me a little bit
08:49 of what was going through your head?
08:51 Yeah, I was very fearful that--
08:58 it was still so new, I think to us.
09:00 And we didn't--
09:01 we were still hiding behind this fear
09:03 of anybody finding out.
09:05 And I knew that where she lived
09:08 was close to where we had lived few years back.
09:10 And I was--
09:11 my thought was, well, what if she know somebody
09:13 who knows me or know somebody,
09:15 who knows somebody who knows me.
09:16 And I was going through the whole thing,
09:18 and I was just really scared to talk about it with anybody.
09:21 And I think, I even told you,
09:23 that I would make up a new email account
09:28 with a new name and everything.
09:30 And I would get to know her through that, because I just,
09:32 I wanted to stay hidden at the time.
09:34 Yeah.
09:38 Eventually there was an agreement,
09:40 where you wrote me, and you said
09:42 that you thought you would be ready
09:44 to make an attempt to have some communication.
09:48 At that time, I revealed emails to each other,
09:52 and tell me how, Mary Lou, what was it like
09:55 when you began to share with Sharri
09:59 about your circumstance in your life?
10:03 It was comforting to have somebody to talk to,
10:07 because I wasn't telling anybody in our family.
10:09 I wasn't telling any church people,
10:13 you know, I didn't want to have the finger pointed at me,
10:17 "Oh, well, you must have been a bad mother," you know.
10:20 So you keep it to yourself, and it was refreshing,
10:26 and right away from reading from her,
10:29 it was apparent that she got it.
10:32 She understood
10:33 and we related quickly to each other,
10:36 it was wonderful.
10:37 And today you communicate quite frequently.
10:41 Yeah, yeah.
10:43 So I happened to know that eventually
10:47 the two of you met face to face,
10:49 how did that happen?
10:51 Thanks to you. Yes.
10:54 Wayne, you decided
10:56 that this was important for us to meet each other,
10:58 and you snuck Mary Lou out to my part of the world,
11:03 without telling me you were bringing her.
11:05 And it was so exciting to meet her,
11:09 and to be able to spend that first time together,
11:12 and we found out, when we met in person,
11:14 that it was even more wonderful
11:16 than the relationship we had formed over the internet.
11:18 So it's just amazing to have somebody,
11:21 like she said before, who got it,
11:23 you have friends around you, who are supportive,
11:25 and loving, and caring, and they are praying for you.
11:28 And because some of them are parents,
11:31 they get it to a little extent.
11:33 But to have somebody who is a kindred spirit,
11:38 we call each other.
11:39 We--
11:40 it's just wonderful.
11:42 And, Mary Lou, I went with you,
11:43 and it was quite an adventure of itself.
11:49 We speak and travel all over the world
11:51 and I accumulate miles
11:52 and so, God had impressed me to use this ministry miles
11:57 to put parents together,
11:59 because I saw the long needed connection
12:02 to have communication and to be supportive
12:05 and helpful of one and other.
12:06 And I know, Mary Lou, you was about as excited as I was.
12:09 I know that after the first night
12:12 that it was the right thing.
12:15 I stayed in someone else's home,
12:16 and you went and stayed with Sharri.
12:19 So tell me what was that like
12:20 to be able to finally talk to someone,
12:22 another parent face to face?
12:24 It was good to talk, not just her, but then Ron too.
12:27 You know, your hubby to be able to hear an other man's,
12:32 you know, thinking about what was going on, and yeah,
12:36 just to be able to put a face with the name.
12:40 And to be able to just share more of our story together,
12:45 it was a wonderful experience.
12:47 You know, you mentioned, Shaari's husband,
12:51 and I know a little bit of your husband as well.
12:54 They seem to sometimes
12:55 be in the background a little bit,
12:56 but they are very much part of this conversation
13:00 and you guys might be able to share a little bit
13:03 about what your husbands share with you.
13:05 The types of conversations that you have
13:08 about their love--
13:09 Do they also blame them--
13:11 I mean, I think the father, particularly in male situations
13:15 might tend to blame themselves a little bit too,
13:18 is that the case, Mary Lou?
13:19 I think initially, that was true.
13:21 And, you know, when we first found out
13:23 about Kenneth, it was very little sleep for me,
13:26 it was reading, reading, constant reading, you know.
13:29 And then, you would read something about a dad,
13:31 who didn't spend time with the men.
13:33 And that, I felt like, "Whoa, that was true."
13:36 And there was a period of time, a small period of time,
13:38 where I was thinking, "Oh, oh, oh,
13:40 maybe this was Robert," you know.
13:41 Because he was not playing basketball,
13:44 he was not playing football, you know.
13:46 So Kenneth didn't get the manly thing,
13:50 so you go through all kinds of--
13:52 well, somebody that you can blame.
13:54 You know, it has to be somebody.
13:58 But we were definitely, you know, on the same page
14:00 as far as what we believe.
14:02 And Kenneth knew immediately,
14:05 that we love him desperately, you know.
14:08 So, and that was a relief to him.
14:11 Because he's seen kids
14:13 who have been kicked out of their homes.
14:15 And he was so grateful
14:17 that he didn't have those parents.
14:20 I know, Sharri, that having met Ron a couple of times
14:24 that this is heavy on his shoulders,
14:27 on his heart.
14:28 I know that your daughters have actually gone individually
14:31 with him at times, and communicated
14:34 and the dynamic has always been such that,
14:38 you have this immense love for both of your children.
14:41 Yes.
14:42 And, yeah, there is so much weight
14:44 that you carry through this.
14:46 Tell me a little bit about what that's like,
14:49 and I think the component
14:52 that really needs to be brought in here
14:54 is that so many parents love their children.
14:57 And they think that
14:59 in order to demonstrate this love,
15:01 they have to endorse the behavior and say,
15:04 it's okay, it doesn't matter who you love,
15:06 but you guys have decided to hold to a biblical
15:10 and very spiritual position
15:14 of which the word of God gives us.
15:16 And it's very difficult at times too,
15:19 because our children,
15:22 our girls particularly want us to support them
15:26 in the choices that they've made.
15:28 And when we have said, you know,
15:31 we love you to pieces
15:33 but we can't support the choice that you've made,
15:37 it's made them push us back.
15:40 And, or push back from us.
15:42 And so that's a real challenge that we've got.
15:45 But it's--
15:47 at the same time it's really drawn Ron and I closer together
15:50 as a couple, because of what we've
15:53 you know, had to experience with them
15:54 pushing us away, because we won't support
15:59 everything that they're choosing.
16:01 I can't imagine--
16:03 it's like a child disowning their parents
16:06 in certain aspects,
16:08 because they can't get the approval
16:09 that they desire to have.
16:11 And to hold on to--
16:14 I know there is a verse and I can't remember,
16:16 if it's in Isaiah, somewhere.
16:18 It talks about, "If you love your husband more
16:21 or your children more, then you love God,
16:24 that God holds us accountable for that."
16:26 I mean--
16:27 and yet God is not, you know, in our physical presence,
16:30 we don't see Him, we don't interact
16:32 like we do with other human beings.
16:34 So to put your faith, and your trust,
16:36 and your love in your God
16:38 beyond even your children has to be--
16:42 It has to come at great cost.
16:44 Your faith has come at a great cost.
16:46 Can you share anything about that?
16:48 It hurts. Yeah.
16:50 It's--
16:51 I always think about the verse in Matthew, you know,
16:53 there will be a time
16:57 where there will be a mother against son,
16:59 or father against brother, whatever.
17:01 And I think, you know, that's a possibility.
17:05 Yeah. But I love Jesus more.
17:11 And not choosing to support our children
17:13 doesn't mean we don't love them.
17:15 It's absolutely love that's doing that,
17:17 because we want to see them
17:19 have everything that Jesus has planned for them.
17:21 And if we buy into what they're choosing to do right now.
17:26 And they happily go along
17:28 knowing that they have our support with that.
17:30 I mean,
17:33 how is that showing the love that we need to show.
17:36 I know that I'm sitting here today
17:39 only as the result of the prayers of my parents.
17:43 And they prayed for nearly 40 years.
17:45 I know they have to be on their knees at times
17:49 thinking, is God really hearing our prayers,
17:52 'cause I don't see anything happening.
17:54 And I share, you know, when I'm on the road,
17:58 and I'm speaking in different churches
18:00 about this being a two part prayer,
18:03 that there is never a prayer that God doesn't hear.
18:06 But that we don't tell God what to do,
18:08 we share our desires with Him.
18:10 And that when I come,
18:14 or the person you're praying for comes to the point
18:17 of which they're open to listening
18:19 to the Holy Spirit.
18:20 God just unleashes the whole host of heaven.
18:23 And sends the Holy Spirit, and take all those prayers
18:27 and surrounds that person,
18:28 and you begin to see that there is really truly hope,
18:32 because you see something changing in somebody's life.
18:35 And I pray that you're both alive
18:37 to be able to see that change take place,
18:40 because it may not happen while we're living, you know.
18:43 And that's, I think heaven is gonna be so incredible,
18:46 and that the mother or father who didn't think
18:49 that their child would be there,
18:51 is there before him, because later, you know,
18:53 they gave their heart over to Jesus Christ.
18:56 There'd be surprises.
18:57 Yeah, many, many great surprises.
19:00 I'm so impressed by the solidarity
19:04 that you've kind of gotten with each other.
19:06 And at one point you began to share with me,
19:10 that you thought also,
19:11 that there needed to be support for other parents.
19:14 And so as a result of that,
19:16 you formed an organization under Coming Out Ministries,
19:19 called Sheltering Trees.
19:20 Right.
19:22 Mary Lou, how did you arrive at that?
19:25 I tell you, when you said, you wanted us to cover group,
19:28 that it was--
19:30 I call them God wings.
19:32 It was just a God wing
19:33 as far as a title for our group,
19:36 and it was Sheltering Trees.
19:38 And I don't know
19:39 how many people are familiar with new song,
19:41 which is a contemporary Christian group.
19:44 But they have a song called Sheltering Trees.
19:47 And so I was gonna share with you
19:49 some of the lyrics here.
19:51 Please.
19:53 It's been said, a friend is like a Sheltering tree,
19:56 a place of refugee
19:57 when trouble comes for you and me.
20:00 Someone we can count on through thick and thin,
20:02 when the storms of life are blowing.
20:04 There's just nothing like a friend.
20:06 We all need Sheltering Trees, friends in our lives
20:09 who will get down on their knees,
20:10 and lift us up before the King of kings.
20:13 We all need Sheltering Trees.
20:16 There been days that I wasn't sure,
20:17 I could make it.
20:18 Clouds of doubt came rolling in,
20:20 and I didn't know what I would do.
20:23 I would have given in, and said I can't go on.
20:28 If it hadn't been for a friend that helped me to be strong.
20:32 We all need Sheltering Trees,
20:34 friends in our lives who'll get down on their knees.
20:37 You can face the highest mountains and climb,
20:41 they feel so high
20:43 or come through the darkest valley
20:44 and it won't seem so wide.
20:46 Nothing is impossible when a friend is by your side.
20:49 We all need Sheltering Trees,
20:51 friends in our lives who'll get down on their knees.
20:53 Yeah.
20:55 And that was what encompassed to me,
20:57 all these parents that were out there
21:00 needing a friend who would get down on their knees,
21:03 a prayer warrior for their children.
21:06 So our list has grown very long.
21:08 Yeah.
21:10 When we speak--
21:11 we share with congregations
21:13 and people that we encounter about Sheltering Trees.
21:17 Sheltering Trees exist on Facebook as a private form.
21:22 It's not there to exploit anyone.
21:24 I mean, it's to be a private place
21:26 that people can come to.
21:28 So I recommend, if there is a parent
21:31 who wants support from other parents
21:35 to contact Mary Lou Erwin, or Sharri Scott on Facebook
21:40 and then and get access to Sheltering Trees.
21:45 You know there is a fear factor
21:48 that you both were part of early on,
21:50 and you know that Sheltering Trees
21:52 has been a slow beginnings.
21:54 Kind of like in this ministry,
21:56 we had slow beginnings, but, you know,
21:58 God just kept opening up one door after the other.
22:01 And today we find that we're able to help parents
22:06 come and contact with you.
22:08 Can you give me a little basis
22:11 about what takes place in Sheltering Trees,
22:15 and why it would be a safe place for a parent
22:19 to come and share?
22:21 First of all, it's a secret group.
22:22 Nobody can get in there unless we bring them in,
22:25 and nobody is gonna see that you're there.
22:28 Right.
22:29 It's a place of hope and encouragement.
22:32 And the kind of things we share are Bible passages,
22:36 passages from other sources
22:38 that have been really encouraging.
22:40 Songs, prayer requests
22:43 if we're really struggling with something
22:45 or some issue with our child.
22:47 We share prayer request and everyone can pray about it.
22:50 It's a very hopeful place, a very encouraging happy place.
22:54 And most of the times--
22:56 I mean sometimes, when there is a prayer request,
22:58 you know, it's not as happy,
22:59 but we know that we can band together,
23:01 and we can pray about these things together.
23:03 We know that there is people out there all over,
23:06 who are holding our children up in prayer,
23:07 and that's huge, huge.
23:09 Huge. Yeah, yeah.
23:10 And we message back and forth,
23:12 you know, with the people in the group.
23:15 We do private messaging.
23:16 Yeah, oh, great. Oh, yeah.
23:18 So that's, you know,
23:19 maybe you want to put something on the page
23:22 that's going on with your child,
23:24 but you want to talk to somebody
23:25 specifically about it.
23:26 Then we message back and forth.
23:28 Right, so that we can...
23:29 Or we share phone numbers, you know, if we want to talk.
23:31 Yeah, so--
23:33 So there is confidentiality there.
23:34 Sure. Oh, yeah.
23:35 And it's, you do feel like it's a safe place.
23:38 Yes.
23:39 And a parent can share their struggle
23:41 or their story openly,
23:43 if they so desire under Sheltering Trees,
23:45 is that right?
23:46 Yes. In the form there.
23:48 Yeah.
23:49 I want to take opportunity to put a plug in there
23:51 for the prayers, that are the prayer requests,
23:55 and I know you pray amongst yourselves.
23:57 We also have a prayer line.
24:01 If you go to comingoutministries.org,
24:04 you can click on the prayer line
24:06 and see the phone number.
24:07 Michael Carducci hosts this prayer line
24:10 on the east coast on Fridays,
24:13 from six to seven in the morning,
24:15 and I host the one on the west coast on Thursdays
24:19 from six to seven in the morning also.
24:22 If we're gone or out of town,
24:23 we try to have somebody else facilitate that.
24:26 But we have seen amazing things happen,
24:29 we've seen results of prayer.
24:32 We have a man on the prayer line
24:35 that's been calling
24:36 since we started three and half years ago,
24:39 whose wife left him because she identified as lesbian.
24:43 And he had all biblical rights
24:46 to go on and seek someone else to have in his life.
24:51 But he chose to hold to God's word
24:54 and to God's promises,
24:55 and claim those promises in prayer,
24:58 on our prayer lines.
25:00 And over the course of time,
25:02 we have watched the Holy Spirit at work.
25:05 And we are on a brink here
25:07 of possibly even seeing this husband and wife reunited.
25:13 Oh, wow.
25:14 And so it's very exciting to watch and so, you know,
25:16 I just want to lift them up in prayer.
25:19 Sure.
25:20 It's through your prayer line
25:21 that you have shared more parents with us
25:24 that can, you know, feel a support in our group,
25:29 so we appreciate that.
25:31 Absolutely.
25:33 So to tell me just briefly here
25:36 in the short time that we have left.
25:38 What your relationship is like with your children today?
25:42 Well, Kenneth, it's good as it can be,
25:46 you know, we have the situation between us
25:49 that he is gay and living in the lifestyle.
25:53 But he knows and he's welcome in our home,
25:58 he knows he's loved, he brings his partner.
26:00 Yeah. He is very respectful in that.
26:03 When they come--
26:05 they are in different bedrooms, their behavior is appropriate.
26:12 So, you know, it's good as it can get.
26:17 I praise the Lord for that,
26:19 because Kenneth knows that--
26:25 I think he would like nothing more than that
26:27 we could step back and say,
26:30 "Oh, no we support you, and you know,
26:31 and it would just make everything great.
26:34 But he loves us and I know that he does.
26:38 He's reflected that in his behavior so many times.
26:44 So--
26:45 Great, that's good to hear. How about you, Sharri?
26:49 Our girls have--
26:52 I guess you can say, sort of dismissed themselves
26:54 from our lives in a lot of ways.
26:55 They've fixed it,
27:00 so communication is very difficult.
27:03 As much as we love them,
27:04 and we try every little way to relay that to them.
27:08 They moved away from the area where we live,
27:10 and they have blocked most of the ways
27:16 that I could communicate with them.
27:18 And when we do try to send them a letter or email
27:24 or something like that,
27:26 we get no response from them whatsoever.
27:28 Well, that's a perfectly good reason
27:31 why again Sheltering Trees exist,
27:34 and why our prayer line exist.
27:36 And so I want to encourage parents
27:39 to participate in these opportunities
27:42 to lift up their children.
27:43 I want to thank you so much for joining us
27:46 on Pure Choices today,
27:48 and to our viewing audience,
27:50 I pray that you're blessed in this program.
27:52 Thank you for joining us,
27:53 and please view again Pure Choices
27:56 whenever you have the opportunity.


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Revised 2016-06-09