Pure Choices

Re-winning Same-gender Friendships - Part 2

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Mike Carducci (Host), Gene & Bernadette Nanton

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Series Code: PC

Program Code: PC000031


00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:05 may be too candid for younger children.
00:42 Hi, I am Mike Carducci with Coming Out Ministries,
00:44 your host today on "Pure Choices."
00:46 I have with me some very good friends.
00:49 This is Gene and his wife Bernie Nanton.
00:52 Actually Bernadette, I guess I should be more formal.
00:54 But we're very informal
00:56 Bernie and Gene are friends of mine
00:57 from back home in Greeneville, Tennessee.
01:00 And I asked them to come today to help to explain
01:07 the beauty that God puts into His church
01:11 to help with the redemption process.
01:14 For me, I had, even as a young child,
01:17 I went to nine different elementary schools
01:18 before I graduated high school
01:21 and because of that, I didn't have any long-lasting
01:24 friendships with the boy,
01:26 so I didn't identify with my gender.
01:28 I had a broken gender identity which started with my father.
01:34 And from an early, early time,
01:36 I had never known what it was like
01:38 to have my own masculinity affirm.
01:40 So what I want to do today is I want to explore a little bit
01:43 about coming back into church culture,
01:46 the road that the Lord has led me to restore the manhood
01:50 that I had been in search with ever since
01:52 I would say even as a young boy.
01:55 And so, today I want to introduce Bernie and Gene again
01:59 and then to talk about our friendship
02:02 that has evolved together.
02:04 Okay.
02:05 So, thanks for coming, Gene
02:06 You're welcome. Thanks, Bernie.
02:08 You're welcome.
02:09 So, one of the first things that I want to talk about is,
02:12 when was the first time you met me?
02:15 Well, when we moved to Greeneville, Tennessee
02:17 which was not that long ago about three or four years ago
02:20 and we met you at a Bible study.
02:22 And you seem like a good Christian guy.
02:26 We did detect that there might have been
02:28 some gay tendency somewhere,
02:30 but it didn't bother us because...
02:32 You know, we call that residue, right?
02:33 Okay. Okay.
02:35 So we started our residue. Right, right.
02:37 But what we saw instead was the person
02:39 in love with the Lord.
02:40 And that just banished
02:43 any other feelings that we might have had
02:46 that would have been negative
02:47 towards gays given our background.
02:50 What I saw was just a very friendly guy loving
02:55 and for us just coming to Tennessee,
03:00 it was nice to see somebody
03:02 who was just openly nice to you.
03:06 All right so.
03:08 What I want to talk a little bit about is
03:10 what kind of history,
03:11 I know that you come from the Island of Antigua,
03:14 a byway of New York City
03:16 and then down to Greeneville, Tennessee.
03:17 So you've gone through culture shock
03:19 probably a couple of times.
03:20 True. Yes.
03:22 All right, so New York City is full of homosexuals
03:24 and full of every kind of vice that you can think and so...
03:29 If you would, just kind of give me a brief history
03:31 of what your exposure has been to homosexuality
03:35 starting with maybe Antigua
03:36 and then taking it to New York City
03:38 and then even bringing it down to here if you would.
03:40 Sure.
03:41 Well growing up in the islands,
03:43 there weren't a lot of homosexuality,
03:46 it was not rampant or widespread
03:48 like it is here in the United States
03:50 and it was not necessarily well accepted.
03:54 You know, we came from a more "macho culture"
03:58 and we really dist homosexuals.
04:02 So we weren't like friendly and open to them,
04:06 unless of course they had warm personalities
04:10 in which case if you did, but there were so few
04:12 that we really didn't have a lot of contact
04:16 with homosexuals
04:17 and the little contact that we did have,
04:19 we didn't really want to have too much to do with them.
04:23 So was homosexuality in Antigua,
04:24 was it a covert kind of thing, it was more or less hidden
04:29 or was it something that was, excuse me, more open.
04:34 Well, we're talking about when we were in Antigua
04:36 and that was a good 35 years ago.
04:39 And at that time it was more covert then overt.
04:44 Okay.
04:45 But there were always a few who were quite overt.
04:49 Like, like where I went to school,
04:51 there was one right across the street
04:52 and he was very flamboyant.
04:54 Was this a high school or grade school?
04:56 High school. Okay.
04:58 Very flamboyant, but very funny,
05:01 and so therefore you treated him
05:04 just like a funny guy, he was almost like comedian.
05:08 And so it wasn't for me there was no dissing.
05:12 It was just that guy who dresses up
05:15 and make fun and is funny.
05:18 So I didn't see it as anything but just that, a funny guy.
05:22 Okay.
05:23 You say dressing up, what do you mean by...
05:25 Dressing up in his sister's clothes
05:26 and sashaying around the place.
05:29 So he made us laugh, you know,
05:33 but he wasn't going after the guys at school
05:36 or anything like that.
05:37 So for us, for me it was funny.
05:44 Other than that I really to be honest,
05:46 I can't remember having any dealings even in New York
05:50 with anybody who is homosexual.
05:52 We've really didn't have much contact,
05:54 personal contact with homosexuals
05:56 until we came in contact with you
05:59 and you're no longer a homosexual,
06:01 so that doesn't even count.
06:02 That's right.
06:03 Well, one thing that I,
06:05 that we were talking earlier about, Gene,
06:06 is you had a certain confrontation if you would
06:09 when you were a young man in Antigua.
06:10 Yes. Would you mind explaining that?
06:12 I was in my teens and there was a priest,
06:15 I think he was either an Anglican or a Moravian
06:19 who was known to be homosexual
06:22 and more of a covert than an overtly.
06:24 You know sometimes people think that nobody else knows,
06:27 but everybody knows except the person
06:29 who thinks that nobody knows about him,
06:31 but I was approached by him one night.
06:34 He stopped his car next to me
06:36 as I was walking right into the movies
06:38 and basically propositioned me, he asked me
06:40 if I would go with him down to the beach,
06:42 I mean this was at night,
06:44 so you don't go to the beach at night
06:45 unless you had some ulterior motive.
06:48 But I was very off put by that.
06:52 Matter of fact, to be perfectly frank,
06:54 I was pretty upset and I was like,
06:56 how dare you even think that to me
06:58 and I was quite ready to threaten him
07:00 and he just drove off
07:02 but that was my really only contact
07:06 that I've ever had.
07:07 Okay, so did that contact
07:10 possibly influence you in any way
07:13 when you heard about homosexuality
07:15 or when you saw
07:17 say on television gay pride parades
07:18 or did a thought ever come into your mind
07:21 of a certain attitude
07:23 or a feeling that would come up?
07:26 Oh, yeah, a very negative feeling.
07:27 Okay, all right.
07:29 Oh, yeah, like just don't even come close to me.
07:32 Okay, all right.
07:33 So my next question then is, when you met me,
07:37 you told us what your initial impression was
07:39 and I believe that was Jesus Christ
07:40 what you saw because if you had seen me
07:44 before in that lifestyle I believe that,
07:47 that I would have been a totally different person
07:50 to you at that time.
07:51 So describe the circumstances of when I joined your church.
07:56 That was interesting.
07:59 You came to our church
08:01 and we accepted you with open arms.
08:05 Absolutely.
08:06 Actually I was very glad that you came to our church,
08:09 our church is a small church as you know.
08:11 How many members?
08:12 Well, at the time we probably had 12 members.
08:15 Wow. Maybe 14.
08:17 But you know since you came and since we came
08:20 and more people just started walking through the door,
08:23 and I believe in many ways, you were responsible for that.
08:26 Can I say Michael's like a magnet.
08:28 He is.
08:31 From the time you joined the church,
08:33 so many more people came to church.
08:36 I don't know if they're following you at first
08:38 or they were just liking our church.
08:40 But I found a lot of people came
08:43 either when you're speaking or maybe when you invited them.
08:48 But again coming back to that person
08:50 who is loving and always willing to talk to you
08:56 and give you a hug and ask you how you're doing
08:59 when most people don't even notice,
09:01 you notice everything.
09:02 You notice if your dress is not fitting right
09:04 or if you're looking sad or your hair don't look right.
09:08 It's a gift and a curse, right?
09:10 So because of that, you attracted more people,
09:15 more ladies
09:17 because they know that you will tell them,
09:19 hey, Bernie, let me fix your hair for you
09:20 or something or, you know, that sort of stuff.
09:23 So I think that there is that overly,
09:28 like I need a friend attitude that comes from you
09:32 and somebody might look at it negative,
09:34 but most people I think look at that positive
09:37 and so they become more into speaking with you
09:41 and getting to know you.
09:43 Well, let me add a little bit to this because it's not,
09:46 it's not all what, what you may perceive
09:48 because at the time that I came to your church,
09:51 I had belonged to another church
09:52 for about six years.
09:54 And in this church everyone again knew my history,
09:57 but what I really wasn't getting is,
09:58 I wasn't getting an affirmation from the men at my church.
10:01 So matter of fact,
10:03 I was the Sabbath school superintendent
10:06 and I was on the board and I'd ask the pastor
10:08 if we could have a men's ministry,
10:10 because I needed to know what that type of healing was,
10:13 you know, to be affirmed by men not in a sexual way,
10:16 but in an intimate way, you being included and being,
10:19 you know, part of the men.
10:20 And so he said, well, Mike, come to the meeting tonight
10:22 and pitch your idea and I had a speaker all lined up
10:25 and we were going to use this camp,
10:26 you don't have like a men's retreat.
10:28 So I brought my books, you know,
10:30 I made my pitch to the board and one of the good doctors
10:33 that were sitting on the board in front of the pastor
10:35 and the head elder looked me square in the eye and he said,
10:39 I don't want to be running around in the woods
10:40 like a bunch of gay men
10:42 and that was such an affront to me
10:44 but to tell you the truth,
10:46 I wish that was the only time that, that happen.
10:48 And through this six years, you know,
10:50 I would go back home and I would say,
10:52 God, you know, I hate this church,
10:53 I hate these people here whatever and God said, "Well,
10:56 are you serving me or you gonna serve them."
10:59 And it was a constant, you know, humbling myself again
11:02 and just saying, well, I'll stay
11:04 because that's where you're sending me and I got,
11:07 I guess it as much as you would,
11:08 I got very comfortable with that.
11:10 So when I had a Bible study
11:12 that they wanted to try your church
11:14 and you remember I brought them to lunch
11:16 and because of you, they said, Mike, you know,
11:19 we're really not comfortable in that other church,
11:21 we would like to try this little church.
11:22 And I prayed and I said, well, God what I might gonna to do,
11:24 you know, take my friends to this little church
11:27 and drop them off and go back to church in.
11:28 And I basically got the release from God saying, No, Mike,
11:32 go with them, stay with them and so that was my release
11:35 and when I, when I came into your church, you know,
11:38 I looked at the head elder and I said, hi, you know,
11:40 I come from homosexuality and sexual addiction
11:43 and do you have any room in your church, and he said,
11:45 sure, have a seat with all the other sinners
11:47 and can you preach every now and then
11:48 because we don't have a regular preacher.
11:50 So, I mean the reception that I got at your church,
11:54 it was almost like it was
11:55 something that hadn't been discovered yet.
11:58 And so all I did was turn people on to it
12:01 that I felt would appreciate the openness,
12:04 the loving reception that I got from your church,
12:07 so it wasn't what they saw in me,
12:09 I believe that's what they saw in the church
12:11 and watch that Holy Spirit was leading them to.
12:15 But anyway, something's really majorly change for me,
12:18 Gene, and they basically came from you.
12:20 And I believe that God was using you
12:22 as God with skin on because there was...
12:26 There was one time, it was actually
12:27 the first foot washing service that we had
12:30 and it's such a small church,
12:32 there are two little rooms behind the pulpit.
12:35 And anyway, the men were in one room
12:37 and the women were in the other and it was very tight quarters.
12:40 And so in these tiny little rooms,
12:41 you know, the water is being passed around in the pans
12:44 and there was a guy with one foot
12:45 and I washed his one foot and I thought I got off easy,
12:47 so I turn around as I'm getting ready to leave
12:50 and you approached me and you said.
12:52 Mike, has somebody served you.
12:53 And I said, "Yeah, I served you know, one legged Willie,
12:56 so you looked at me and you said, no, Mike,
12:58 I want to serve you.
13:00 Now I might know a little bit more than the situation now,
13:02 but to me at that time, I really saw it as unnecessary.
13:06 I certainly saw it as you wanted to reach out to me
13:11 which I wasn't used to and because I was so used
13:13 to the rejection of men, you know,
13:15 in church culture that I really thought
13:17 it was even unnecessary and kind of like,
13:20 I don't know why you would bother, right.
13:22 But you push the issue and you insisted
13:24 and so I thought, all right, I sat down as I,
13:27 as you started to serve me, Gene,
13:29 you started to pour over me the love of Jesus
13:32 just in a personal way, you, you started telling me
13:35 what a joy it was to have me there, you know,
13:38 the good things that you'd observed in
13:40 and just affirmations.
13:42 You weren't trying to puff me up
13:43 but you were affirming to me
13:45 that I belong there which was something
13:47 that I wasn't getting from church culture.
13:49 And so as you were bathing me in that,
13:52 I'm looking and I'm just in awe
13:53 that somebody would bother to extend themselves to me.
13:57 And then when you started to pray for me,
13:59 all the men in that room came up
14:01 and they put their hands on me and that was so incredible,
14:04 because I don't even think that you know
14:06 what you were doing, but by acknowledging me
14:09 and including me in the men,
14:10 just doing whatever the Holy Spirit was saying
14:12 include the new guy, he might be a little strange
14:15 but you know include him, right.
14:17 But by doing that, what you were doing, you was,
14:19 you were affirming to me and the healing
14:21 that I experienced from that has actually elevated me
14:25 to recognize that, that God did make the male
14:28 and female and that he made me male purposefully.
14:31 And as I started to get that affirmation
14:33 that in itself is healing.
14:35 So, you may not have recognized that
14:37 but that I think began our friendship.
14:40 The Lord does work in mysterious ways.
14:42 Yes, yes, incredible.
14:43 Because I wasn't out to affirm your masculinity
14:46 'cause in my eyes I never questioned it.
14:49 I wanted to wash your feet
14:51 and I specifically wanted to wash your feet
14:54 because even though you don't recall it
14:56 at this time, we did have a conflict,
14:58 but you didn't even see it is a conflict,
15:00 but I saw it as a conflict.
15:02 I knew that you were going to become a leader in our church,
15:05 simply because of your forthrightness,
15:07 your love for the Lord
15:09 and the way that you're not afraid to stand up
15:11 and to speak and to speak truly.
15:13 And we had a little discussion because we had prayer meeting
15:19 and because our pastor only comes,
15:22 he handles three churches as you know,
15:24 so he only comes to prayer meeting
15:25 every other week.
15:27 So one week, I would take it and the other week he would.
15:29 But the week when I took it, we did Bible study
15:32 and the week when he took it, we did prayer meeting.
15:35 And you had said to me,
15:36 if it's gonna be prayer meeting,
15:38 it should be prayer meeting and not Bible study.
15:40 Have mercy. And needless to say, I was no.
15:42 We need Bible study too.
15:44 So I felt that we had a conflict.
15:46 But I recognized also and this time
15:49 neither of us were officers in the church,
15:51 but I recognized that it doesn't make any sense to us
15:54 to have a conflict.
15:55 And the foot washing is an opportunity
15:58 to address a conflict.
16:00 So whereas I was addressing a conflict between us
16:03 because I know we must be on one accord.
16:05 You were actually receiving it
16:07 as an affirmation of your masculinity
16:09 when I never even questioned it.
16:11 If you're so used to rejection, then the fact
16:14 that you saw me as valuable enough
16:16 and that you saw our relationship
16:17 is valuable enough to address it and confront it.
16:20 To me for the first time,
16:22 it was actually somebody reaching out,
16:23 even though you were looking for reconciliation
16:25 which was the furthest thing from my mind,
16:27 what it did and I believe the Holy Spirit
16:29 had intended to do was again to affirm
16:32 that you saw value in me.
16:34 And I think that, that's what a lot of homosexuals
16:36 really struggle with is that, you know,
16:38 if you've been rejected for so many years
16:40 and some of us in my ministry had been rejected
16:43 since before they were born.
16:44 And so, if you've experienced that kind of rejection
16:47 over and over again, then I think that it has merit
16:50 to tell the body of Christ that if you want to minister
16:53 to not just homosexuals, but anyone
16:55 who may be outside your understanding
16:58 or what you think your reach is or scope,
17:01 that just by making them a value,
17:04 holding them as a value that they're worthwhile
17:07 or that they're worth something,
17:08 right then you start to create this atmosphere
17:11 that I think not only will help to heal,
17:13 but also to help Christians to grow.
17:16 Go ahead.
17:17 You know, what I...
17:19 As I'm listening to you and thinking about you
17:21 at church and stuff.
17:22 What you being at our church has done for me
17:27 is to make me question myself, how does,
17:30 how does the Lord see me?
17:33 How does somebody else see me?
17:35 Whereas you're looking for save value,
17:37 my worth, what am I worth?
17:39 Does anybody see me as worthy of anything?
17:43 Whereas when I think of about you
17:45 and what you're going through and what you are saying,
17:48 it makes me begin to look at myself and say Bernie
17:51 in the sight of Michael or anybody who are you?
17:56 Are you a Christian?
17:58 Are you trying to be a Christian,
18:01 like what are you doing?
18:02 So instead of just seen as say homosexuality,
18:06 I'm seeing it the whole picture.
18:08 Each one of us have sinned
18:09 and come short of the glory of God.
18:12 And until we start looking at our self in heaven's eyes,
18:16 just trying to imagine when Jesus look at me,
18:20 I wonder what He sees.
18:22 Then I stop seeing you as a homosexual
18:25 and I just see you as a child of God.
18:27 You know, Michael, to pick up on what Bernie just said.
18:31 You coming to our church, my attitude before
18:36 to homosexuals was one of disdain.
18:39 We would even call them derogatory names.
18:42 But what you did for me was to make me see myself
18:48 because we have all sinned as Bernie said
18:50 and fall short of the glory of God.
18:53 If God could save you and bring you back
18:56 into the church despite all the things
18:58 that you encountered in the church,
19:00 it made me questioned my own Christianity.
19:03 Am I a Christian to have such an attitude
19:06 towards people regardless
19:09 whether they have same-sex attraction or not
19:12 because God sees us all as sinners to be saved.
19:17 And we need to emulate Jesus as our role model
19:21 and that's what you did for me.
19:23 You strengthened my Christianity.
19:26 You allowed me to get rid of the biases
19:28 and the prejudices that I had and just take people
19:33 and love people for what they are,
19:35 so that we can bring them to Christ.
19:38 You know, it's awesome to sit in this chair
19:40 and to hear those things because again,
19:43 it's just, it's like the Lord just keeps giving
19:45 as we are having this discussion.
19:47 Again, I just see the goodness of God to, you know,
19:50 to move me into certain paths to, to create friendships,
19:53 I thought that our friendship was just for me.
19:55 And so then when you start to see
19:57 that it has a benefit to everybody,
19:59 God doesn't leave anybody out, right.
20:01 So another question that I have is.
20:04 How has your relationship
20:05 changed your understanding of Jesus
20:07 and His ability to change lives?
20:10 How that relates to me?
20:12 Well, how that relates to me is like that day
20:15 when we had Mother's Day, right.
20:16 And we had all the roses sitting up there
20:18 and the idea was the men were gonna serve the women.
20:21 You know, the men had the meal, the men did the sermon,
20:23 the men did the Sabbath School, the men did, you know,
20:26 everything, the ladies didn't have to do anything.
20:27 We even cooked.
20:29 That's right and we even played the piano.
20:30 Yes. That's right. Right, okay.
20:32 So as we're standing there, you know, Gene starts
20:34 and he takes out a rose and he honors his wife, right.
20:37 And then he invites anybody else
20:38 and a little kid came up an honored
20:40 his mother and there it began.
20:41 So as we started to honor the women in our church,
20:44 all of sudden what I realized was
20:47 God was affirming me again that I was in the boys club
20:49 because I wasn't out there in the audience,
20:53 I was up there with the men and even thought,
20:55 you know, my role was minimal as far as just holding a rose
20:58 and to honor somebody,
21:00 the fact that I was included as a guy with the guys,
21:04 that in itself was just basically
21:06 an affirmation to me again.
21:08 Another situation is Brother Bill,
21:10 you know, it was one day after, again, you know,
21:13 I have the opportunity now to give sermon occasionally.
21:16 Brother Bill is our head elder at the time.
21:18 Yes, yes.
21:19 And so he does, he's great.
21:21 What do you call at the end of the sermon?
21:22 The benediction.
21:23 Yes, he does a great benediction, so I was done.
21:25 He comes up and Brother Bill puts his arm around my waist.
21:29 And normally what I found that I do with men is
21:32 if I give them a hug, it's like hug release
21:34 because I really don't want them to think
21:36 that I'm copping a feel or that,
21:37 you know, it's going further than that.
21:39 And so for the first time in ten years to have someone
21:42 holding me around my waist, I could feel his words coming
21:46 through his chest into mine and it was the first time
21:49 that I've been held like that and he wasn't letting go.
21:51 And here I am standing in front of the whole congregation
21:54 and being affirmed by Brother Bill as,
21:56 you know, as he's given this beautiful benediction.
21:58 And just then I realized that it wasn't a turn on
22:03 and that God was speaking in my ear
22:05 and He says this is what it's like Mike
22:07 to be a man and to be affirmed by men.
22:10 And so he was using this opportunity
22:12 that wasn't designed to stimulate me,
22:14 what it was as it was designed to affirm me.
22:17 And again that's the, that's the situation
22:20 that I keep getting in church now that I've come there
22:22 so the blessing has been just as much mine as
22:26 anybody else's so.
22:27 You know, I can tell you something else about that too.
22:29 And not about Brother Bill holding you,
22:31 because Brother Bill is just like that.
22:33 He is a lovable, friendly guy.
22:35 He has seen what you have done.
22:37 But going back to the Mother's Day issue,
22:40 maybe you don't realize it but you led out,
22:43 you led the man out in that whole Mother's Day
22:48 thing that we did, that tribute.
22:50 You were the one who initiated the idea
22:53 and we embraced the idea,
22:56 but you were the one who led out in it
22:58 and we were so grateful to you because, you know.
23:01 you are a man of ideas
23:03 and the church just followed your lead,
23:05 so you might not have thought that you were affirm,
23:09 but the fact that all the men
23:11 turned to you for leadership at that time.
23:15 Can you ask for more affirmation than that,
23:17 you demand.
23:18 Wow. Well...
23:20 You know coming, coming out and allowing everyone to see
23:25 you wear your sorrows and your heartache
23:28 on your sleeves has allow us into church to love you
23:33 as a person and bring you into the family with us.
23:37 And that's why Brother Bill can hug you
23:39 and Gene can wash your feet, you're part of the family.
23:42 And it just reminds me, what it's as gonna feel like
23:45 when we get to heaven, we are part of the family.
23:49 Doesn't matter who we were, where we came from,
23:52 God loves us anyhow.
23:54 Thank you for that thought
23:56 because now I see also the benefit of the unit,
24:01 of the church family because the example
24:03 that I'm receiving now is the safe environment.
24:06 You know what? I'm not perfect and--
24:08 You know, you see the good, the bad and the ugly
24:10 and you know you've seen it.
24:12 And so in spite of that you still, you know,
24:15 include me, you still accept me who I'm.
24:18 And that in itself is not only healing
24:20 but it's an example of what every church can do to not just
24:25 receive homosexuals which I think is definitely
24:27 a need that we have in our denomination,
24:30 but also in receiving anyone that has fallen,
24:33 anyone that has experienced rejection
24:35 from the outside world and even other churches,
24:37 they should be able to come into our church
24:39 and receive that, that safety
24:41 and that confirmation that no matter what you are,
24:44 no matter what you do that you will be loved here
24:46 and that you'll be affirmed here
24:48 and you're accepted here and welcome.
24:50 Absolutely.
24:51 I mean what is the purpose of our church?
24:53 Is not Jesus soon to come?
24:55 Are we not to prepare a people for the coming of the Lord
24:58 to make ourselves fit for heaven?
25:00 If we have a biases and prejudices,
25:03 we're not fit for His coming.
25:05 And we don't want that to tarry any longer.
25:08 So, you know, thank you, Michael,
25:10 because you have helped us on that road towards
25:13 been able to love one another regardless
25:16 because we want Jesus to come.
25:18 You guys are so cool.
25:19 You don't know how awesome this is to experience
25:22 this dialog back and forth.
25:25 Just even in the general things,
25:27 I remember one time, Gene,
25:28 you know, I was doing a health fair
25:30 and it was in Knoxville,
25:32 it was like an hour and a half away
25:33 and I left all my stuff in my garage
25:36 and you left your house which was way,
25:38 you went an hour from me
25:39 and you went an hour to my house
25:41 and then another hour out to meet me halfway
25:43 in the highway to give me those thing so.
25:46 Again your friendship and just in the general
25:49 casual things as well as in the big things,
25:52 you know, those little everyday occurrences like the day
25:55 that we helped move somebody in the mud
25:57 and we shared a sandwich at Subway
25:58 and we were just goofing off and that kind of stuff.
26:01 All of those little things are actual affirmations
26:04 that I think helped to restore lost masculinity.
26:07 The reason that I rejected my father at a young age
26:10 is because his masculinity was scary to me.
26:14 And I can actually look back and it wasn't so much
26:16 that I rejected my dad, I rejected masculinity.
26:19 So my friendship with you and my relationship with you,
26:22 you've made it very easy, I come to you,
26:24 you don't judge me.
26:25 And if I do something bad or wrong or whatever,
26:29 you don't chastise me, you accept me back in,
26:31 you confront me with it.
26:33 And you know what?
26:34 You're showing me what that's like to be real,
26:37 to be authentic and to also know
26:39 that no matter what happens,
26:41 I'm still a member, I'm still a friend
26:43 and that investment in me
26:45 has been incredibly healing for me.
26:47 It's been healing for us too.
26:49 It's been strengthening for us
26:51 and it has allowed us to grow as Christians.
26:53 And I truly believe that's what our church needs.
26:56 You know, we have hid this issue
26:57 under the carpet for so long, that we really need to come out
27:02 to recognize just as Jesus did.
27:04 He loves sinners, it's sin that He hates,
27:07 but we need to emulate Him
27:09 and make Him our role models at all times.
27:11 Wow.
27:13 You know, Gene, thank you so much
27:14 for your example and, Bernie,
27:17 thank you also for including me into your family as well.
27:21 As matter of fact when your, when your kids are in town,
27:22 you always drag them to my house
27:24 and we have popcorn or something.
27:25 They love to come. Yeah, yeah we have...
27:26 Especially since you've fixed the hair.
27:28 Yeah, okay, all right.
27:30 So I want to close with Proverbs 27:7 it says,
27:33 "Iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens
27:36 the countenance of his friend."
27:38 It's truly is an example of God's restoration power
27:42 within the church.
27:43 And I want to thank you for taking the time
27:46 to watch our episode today.
27:47 Thank you, Bernie and Gene, for coming all this way...
27:49 You're welcome.
27:50 You know out of your own time and I appreciate your time.
27:53 Thank you for viewing Pure Choices today.


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Revised 2016-02-18