Participants: Seth Yelorda (Host), Alfonzo Greene, Lola Moore, Michael Kelley, Michael Polite
Series Code: PC
Program Code: PC000002
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00:45 Welcome back to "Pure Choices."
00:47 I'm so glad that you decided to join us 00:48 again for another episode. 00:50 Today we have a very hot topic 00:52 that we're gonna dive right into. 00:54 But before we do that, I just want to take a minute 00:55 and introduce again my colleagues 00:58 who're here to just discuss these sensitive and hot issues. 01:03 Right here we have my brother Alfonzo Greene, who's a pastor, 01:07 one of the pastors at the first SDA Church 01:09 in Huntsville, Alabama. 01:10 We have my brother Michael Polite, 01:13 who is the associate pastor at the Riverside SDA Church 01:16 in Nashville, Tennessee. 01:19 We have my sister Lola Moore, who is with us. 01:23 She is one of the pastors 01:24 from the Huntsville Oakwood University Church. 01:27 And then we have my brother Michael B. Kelley 01:30 who pastors in Riverside, California., 01:33 the Mt. Rubidoux SDA Church. 01:34 I'm so glad that you all back here with me again. 01:37 And today our topic is one that is, kind of, taboo 01:41 within the Adventist Church specifically, 01:43 and maybe just in any church. 01:45 We're dealing specifically with self pleasure, 01:46 masturbation, pornography. 01:48 Now even saying the word masturbation is kind of like, 01:52 should I be saying that, 01:53 you know, it's kind of like one of those tough, 01:54 tough topics that we don't really deal with. 01:56 But I'm gonna say it again just we'll are comfortable. 01:58 Masturbation. Right. Right. Thank you. Thank you. 02:00 Yeah, this is what we're dealing with today. 02:03 And so let's just talk about it. 02:06 What is it? Is it right? 02:07 Is it wrong? How do we deal with it? 02:09 How does the church approach it? 02:10 What does God's word say about it? 02:11 You know, let's just throw it out there 02:13 and just wrestle with it. 02:14 Well, you know, one of things that, 02:16 you know, I'm glad that 02:18 we're talking about, this is appropriate. 02:20 There was somebody I had to deal with it at a time, 02:23 who has coming to me for some counseling, 02:25 two different situations. 02:26 One situation was they were trying 02:29 to remain pure in their minds 02:32 and pure for them was not having sex. 02:34 But when they would go and be with their significant other 02:37 they found themselves very tempted to do that. 02:39 So one of the things that they turned to was they said, 02:42 if I would masturbate sometime before that would, 02:46 it will make lot easier-- 02:47 Calm, calm him down. Right. 02:48 Don't have to, you know, resist. So that was one scenario. 02:50 Then there was somebody else who-- 02:53 their spouse had passed away 02:55 and what happens is obviously, even though the spouse is gone, 02:58 they didn't feel the need to get remarried. 03:00 However, those urges were still there. 03:02 And so what they want to say is pastor, 03:04 is it inappropriate that as I'm thinking 03:07 about my spouse in the intimate moments 03:11 that we used to share and I do that, 03:13 is that inappropriate? 03:14 So it is--because the people are really confused, 03:18 I think, as to, you know, 03:20 is it wrong just black and white? 03:22 Is there certain context, you know, that's where-- 03:24 And just for those who-- just we're all clear, 03:27 masturbation is, Pastor Greene, give us a good definition. 03:30 What do you say masturbation is? 03:31 I mean, just kind of what the show is, self-pleasure. 03:33 I mean, it's just, you know, pleasing yourself sexually. 03:39 I don't know what else you would-- Okay. 03:41 I mean, I know you don't want, 03:42 like, some slang here but, I mean. 03:45 I mean that thing is pretty much there, 03:46 I mean, pleasing yourself sexually. 03:48 So the question is, is it right? 03:50 And you gave us a few good contexts, 03:52 one where there's two people who are dating and they want 03:57 to kind of remain pure, they don't want to have sex 03:58 with each other 'cause they're dating. 03:59 But yet they still have this urge 04:01 so one would masturbate, that was first. Right, right. 04:02 And the other context was a woman who's widowed, 04:05 her husband has passed away 04:07 and she masturbates to the thoughts of him. 04:10 She's doesn't want to get remarried 04:11 but she just thinks about the good times they had together 04:13 and then she'll go on to masturbate. 04:15 In those contexts is it right, is it wrong? Let's deal with it. 04:17 What are your thoughts? 04:19 Well, I'm really feeling like we need to breakdown 04:22 those two situations to their bare elements. Okay. 04:26 And that is that self pleasure is a counterfeit. 04:31 It's counterfeiting the real experience. 04:33 So what we're really asking is, 04:35 is it ever okay to use a counterfeit 04:38 to keep from further sin? 04:40 Now why is it a counterfeit? 04:42 The counterfeit is what God made for orgasm 04:46 and getting that release is the sexual experience 04:50 between male and female, that's what He made. 04:53 So a counterfeit of that is-- In the context-- 04:55 Okay, I can get a release when I please myself. 04:59 So is it ever cool to use that self pleasure counterfeit-- 05:03 Self stimulation. That's it. 05:05 To--to get away from other sins. 05:08 Like for an occasion with someone else 05:11 or adultery or things of that nature. 05:13 I mean, the question that I know 05:14 lot of young people have is, what's wrong with it? 05:16 I mean, I'm not hurting anyone. 05:18 You know, I may be looking at pornography 05:20 but I may not be looking pornography when I masturbate. 05:22 It might just be some mental images 05:24 I have in my mind, what's the big deal? 05:25 It's not like I'm belittling a woman per se. 05:29 I'm just, you know, I'm in my closet, I'm in my bed, 05:32 I'm in my shower, and I'm doing whatever I wouldn't actually do 05:34 and I'm not-- it has no effect on anyone else. 05:37 So what's the big deal with masturbating? 05:40 I think the big issue for us 05:42 or the way that we ought to formulate our thoughts 05:44 as Christians is by looking at what God intended. 05:48 When we talk about what God intended, 05:50 we understand that all of this conversation 05:53 about self pleasure is a neighbor 05:56 to actual sexual intercourse. 05:59 That's what you were saying. 06:00 And what God designed for human beings, 06:02 He gave us a desire for sexual intercourse 06:04 in order for us to be fruitful and to multiply. 06:07 But not only that, in order to foster and forge 06:10 a deep relationship between 06:12 two individuals who are married. 06:14 And so you ask yourself in that context 06:17 or understanding what God intended for sexuality now. 06:21 When I engage and what we're calling self pleasure, 06:24 what I am saying is, I am going to do by myself, 06:28 for myself, what God intended for me 06:30 to share with someone else. 06:32 What God intended for me to do 06:33 in order to bind me with another person, 06:36 now I'm doing it for myself. 06:37 It doesn't seem harmful. 06:41 When you're single, when you're young 06:44 and things like that, and not seemingly hurting 06:46 anyone else but then when we come to a place 06:49 where you're supposed to be binding with another person, 06:51 when you're supposed to be in a relationship 06:53 where you share this with another, 06:55 now you're handicapping yourself 06:57 because I'm used to do this by myself. 06:59 If this other person cannot do for me 07:01 what I like, what brings me pleasure. 07:05 Now I am-- what shall I say, 07:08 now I am tempted in a whole new way 07:10 because I want to go and have an affair with myself. 07:13 Well, I don't know if people really think 07:16 along those lines, though. 07:17 I mean, if I'm masturbating, as in what Pastor Kelley said, 07:20 if I'm masturbating because I know 07:21 I don't want to have sex with my girlfriend 07:24 because either it's wrong, she may get pregnant. 07:26 You know, it's not God's ideal and so I masturbate. 07:29 I'm just kind of like holding myself over until I get married, 07:33 until it is legitimate for me to have sex with my girlfriend. 07:35 And then once I get married 07:37 I won't be masturbating anymore. 07:38 You know, that goes back to a previous discussion 07:40 that we had in the last episode. 07:42 And that is that what is the goal? 07:44 Is the goal just not engaging in the activity 07:48 or is the goal purity? Right. 07:50 And when we think about masturbation, 07:51 what are the things that we have to-- 07:54 what are the types of thinking do we have to, 07:56 you know, be engaged in to excite ourselves to the point 08:00 where we actually do have to masturbate and release. 08:03 So is the goal just not having intercourse? 08:05 Or is the goal to be pure? 08:07 In your thinking and your actions. 08:09 So where does it-- where do we draw the line? 08:11 Okay, you can imagine an adolescent young man. 08:14 In fact, this is a real life scenario. 08:15 Someone came to me one day and they said, 08:17 "Pastor, I don't know what to do about my child. 08:19 I have like a six or seven year old boy 08:23 and he's feeling himself. 08:24 You know, he discovered that he has a penis--" 08:27 I think they're about six or seven, 08:28 they might be little bit younger. 08:29 "He discovered that he has a penis 08:31 and he just won't stop touching it." 08:32 In her mind, she's like, 08:34 "Yo, stop touching it, stop touching it." 08:35 But in his mind, it's discovery. 08:36 You know, he's just realizing I have this thing down here 08:39 and when I touch it, it feels good. 08:41 Is that considered masturbating? 08:43 Like where do you draw the line between-- 08:45 and specially in adolescence, between discovery 08:48 and the other side of the coin? 08:49 Well, I think there's diff--I mean, 08:51 I think you could tell clearly when it's discovery. 08:53 You know, doing different things, 08:55 you know, what they should, 08:57 they do not need stimuli as it were. Right. 09:00 You know, usually, you know, 09:01 young boys at that age don't necessarily need stimuli, 09:05 something that they're looking at, to get that. 09:07 It's just, you know, part of it. 09:08 But going on to what, you know, Pastor Greene said, 09:10 which is why I want to explore that from a different angle. 09:14 The idea that the person-- 09:15 the goal is purity, absolutely it is. 09:18 So that person might have to do something impure 09:21 to in their minds remain pure from sex. 09:23 Right. That's one thing. 09:24 However, when you put in the context 09:26 where the thought is acceptable, 09:29 and I go back to this scenario with the spouse 09:31 where that situation of me thinking like-- 09:36 if I were to think right now. Right. 09:38 Just think, because before I act. 09:39 Because remember, we're talking about 09:41 being pure even in thoughts too. 09:42 If I think about a scenario with my wife 09:44 right now, that's acceptable. 09:46 So the question, I think, also turns into is well, 09:49 if I think about something that is acceptable 09:53 and then perform this act, 09:56 is the act make the thought unacceptable? 09:59 Or even if it's in the right context, 10:01 it's just never okay for me to touch myself in that way. 10:05 So if I'm away and my wife is at home 10:07 and I'm in a hotel in another city doing something 10:10 and I'm horny and I think about her and I masturbate, 10:13 you're saying within that context, is it okay? 10:15 I'm wondering. 10:16 I wonder if it is because I think it's a very easy answer 10:19 and straight forward to be able to say, "You know what? 10:22 If you're 17, 18, 19 years old, 10:25 what are you thinking about when you masturbate?" 10:27 I mean, you're not thinking about the wall. Right. 10:29 You think about a woman or you think about-- 10:30 You think about a woman or whatever it is. Yeah. 10:32 But if I'm-- in that certain context, 10:35 well, I'm thinking about a woman who is my wife. Right. 10:39 Is it okay? I think Kelley is right. 10:41 It's really boiling down to the act. 10:45 The thought that leads you to the act could be appropriate. 10:49 So the question is what about the act itself? 10:52 Can it all of a sudden turn it towards inappropriate? 10:54 I think it can't. 10:56 I think whenever we get away from original intent, 11:00 whenever we get away from that-- 11:01 and I think that is foundational to understanding sexual purity, 11:05 is what's originally intended? 11:07 Are you saying, like, God's original intent? 11:08 Right, very much so. Okay. Original intent. 11:11 Whenever we get away from that, that's when I'm feeling 11:14 we're veering away from appropriate. 11:16 Right. So, okay, go ahead. 11:17 You know, the Bible says, 11:19 there's a way that seems right to men 11:21 but the end there of is destruction. 11:23 And for us being sexual beings, you know, we have urges. 11:27 Urges that God placed there in order for us 11:29 to do what He original-- Desires. 11:31 You know, desires that God placed there. 11:33 And it may seem that us fulfilling 11:36 or satisfying that physical desire is okay 11:39 because it's natural. 11:40 But we find that what we're doing in order to compensate 11:45 for we don't have is drawing us away from the original intent. 11:50 Even in, I mean, in--I think it is a different conversation 11:54 when we're talking about people who've been married 11:56 and in a marriage context and people who are single. 11:59 And, I mean, we can talk a little more about that 12:01 but I'm-- in the context of singleness, 12:04 in the context of those who are young people, 12:06 you know, there masturbation is drawing us 12:09 away from the ideal because it is substituting for ourselves 12:14 for what God intended to be shared with someone else. 12:17 Well, we have to ask-- 12:18 Well, I was just gonna say, though, 12:19 I don't know really is addressing 12:21 what Pastor Kelley was saying in the sense that, 12:24 you know, I mean, yes, the intent but remember, 12:27 you know, it's also the intent of intimacy 12:30 within a marriage relationship. 12:32 Because the scenario that you just told us about, 12:35 what if you are thinking thoughts of your wife? 12:38 Or you're thinking thoughts of your husband 12:40 when you're in a hotel or somewhere else 12:41 and then you masturbate. 12:43 Is that appropriate? Is that okay? 12:45 And I think when we talk about that original intent, 12:47 we have to remember 12:49 what is the act of sex all about as far as 12:52 what was God's intention? 12:53 Yeah, I think we should probably establish that again-- Okay. 12:55 You know, when we look at sex and we're saying intent 12:58 and just for the viewers I want to make sure 12:59 they're on the same page that we are. 13:00 When we say intent we're saying, 13:02 that God created the sexual act to be other centered. 13:06 So when I go into the sexual act, 13:08 I'm going into it thinking, how can I please my spouse? 13:12 How can I please my wife? How can I please my husband? 13:14 That's the think that's on my mind. 13:16 And my wife, she goes into sexual act thinking, 13:18 how can I please my husband? Right. 13:20 And so you have two individuals-- 13:22 It's giving. Right. 13:23 You have two individuals who are coming together 13:25 and they're other centered 13:26 trying to out love the other person. Right. 13:28 So then would their principle be-- 13:30 because one thing we did make clear, 13:31 the Bible speaks about principles 13:33 but it doesn't mention masturbation. Right. 13:36 Right, we know Onan, 13:37 that whole example of him spilling his seed on the ground, 13:40 that's not talking about masturbation. Right. Right. So-- 13:42 That one's about pulling out. Right. A contraceptive tool. 13:46 Especially when God's will, stay in. 13:48 No the thing is--but I think the question is so-- Amen. Amen. 13:53 I think we have to be clear with the audience 13:55 because I know there might be some who are married 13:56 who are watching but there are some young people like, 13:59 I'm not going to married for another 14:00 12, 15 years maybe even. 14:02 So are we then saying that we're giving the idea 14:06 from this ideal that God has presented 14:08 that orgasm was never indented to be by yourself? Yes. 14:12 Yes, exactly what we're saying. 14:14 Even in any context. 14:16 You just not-- no orgasm by yourself. 14:17 Orgasm's always meant to be experienced with someone. 14:19 What's occurring to me and I'm sorry to jump in 14:21 but sex in itself as God indented is an act of worship. 14:26 It's an act of worship. 14:28 It brings us closer to the other 14:31 and it helps us to see God in a whole new way. 14:35 And the question is, I mean, as a principle, 14:38 am I worshiping God if I'm masturbating? 14:43 Even if I'm focusing now on the other person, 14:45 am I not worshiping the memory 14:47 of that other person as I'm masturbating? 14:49 You know, it's funny 'cause-- Am I worshiping God? 14:51 when you say sex is an act of worship. 14:52 You know, it's interesting 14:54 'cause when you look at the sexual act, 14:55 the sex-- each individual, 14:57 each spouse is to be so other centered. 14:59 Sex is a-- how can I say it? 15:01 Sex is something that your need can only truly be satisfied 15:05 when you meet the need of someone else. Right. 15:07 You know, so it's like the only way 15:08 I can breathe is when I exhale. 15:10 I can't hold on to my breath, if I hold on to it, I'll die. 15:13 And so I've to exhale and then when I exhale, 15:16 my body is functioning holistically. 15:18 So the same thing with sex like-- 15:19 the only way you can really be pleased in sex 15:22 as if your whole goal is to please someone else. 15:25 I go into the sexual act 15:26 not thinking what can I get out of it? 15:28 Or how can I be pleased by? 15:29 I just want to please my wife. I want to bless my wife. 15:31 I want her to be happy about this thing. 15:32 Hallelujah. Thank you, Lord. Thank you. 15:33 So when I go into that that's when I truly experience 15:36 fulfillment and satisfaction in the sexual realm. 15:40 Masturbation, it turns the object of my-- 15:44 my satisfaction onto myself. Right. 15:46 So rather than please my wife, 15:49 I'm trying to get what I can get out of it. 15:51 You know, as much as I can get out of it 15:53 or as long as I can it out of it, you know. 15:54 Let me support what Kelley is saying 15:57 because from the standpoint of pleasing my spouse. 16:01 My spouse would be mostly pleased if I stay faithful. 16:06 So if I am on this two week long road trip 16:10 and they are not there, would my spouse choose, 16:14 "Okay, his urge is building, his drive is building, 16:18 he's looking at others, it would really help him at that point 16:21 to be able to release that to get back focus." 16:24 I'm wondering if my spouse would prefer for me 16:27 to release there in order to keep 16:29 the longevity of our commitment solid. 16:32 Yeah, but remember now, again though, 16:34 I mean, we have to ask ourselves what is the final goal though. 16:38 Yes, the goal is to be intimate 16:40 and for your spouse to be pleased. 16:42 But then, I mean, there are things within relationships 16:45 that your spouse may be pleased with but is it pure before God? 16:49 And I think that as we look at also being intimate, 16:53 pleasing one another, giving, 16:55 I think, the other angle of it is, 16:58 is what we're doing pleasing unto God? 17:00 So to summarize, what we're saying is that, 17:03 that masturbation regardless of whatever context it's in 17:07 is not God's ideal because 17:09 it's self-centered and not spouse-centered. 17:12 We all kind of-- kind of-- 17:13 I think, that there have to be a way to say it 17:16 because again if we use-- 'cause a lot of the arguments 17:19 I've always heard for masturbation was, 17:21 "What are you thinking about?" Right. 17:22 And then like I said, in that scenario, 17:24 you know, in one of my sessions was presented to me I say, 17:26 "Well, wait a second." 17:27 Then I'm thinking about something 17:29 that's-- that's out there. 17:30 So the principle must be-- and I think I'll also want to be 17:32 a little practical with the two. 17:34 That even in that right context, as we could say, 17:37 we're not thinking about the wrong thing. 17:39 It could turn into well, if you don't-- 17:43 if I'm not happy here and you know sometimes 17:45 when you're not connecting all the time emotionally, 17:47 it's a little hard to connect physically, 17:49 well, I'll still be okay. 17:51 Did you go take care of yourself? 17:52 Because I'll take care 17:54 and I might have still think about you 17:55 but it still will be that disconnect. 17:57 I also could be used to-- 17:58 It still self-centered sex. Exactly. 17:59 I could get used to my own self. 18:01 So now when I move into that realm, 18:05 I'm so used to how I feel all myself 18:08 that now somebody else might have hard time 18:10 bringing me to that point. 18:11 So I think the pitfalls as well, married-- 18:14 but especially, I know the context 18:15 for our audience is youth. 18:17 The more you do that, the more-- 18:19 it's you're gonna be more accustomed to you. 18:22 And I know we're also talking about, 18:24 you know, pornography a little bit 18:25 and I think that ties into the same thing. It does. 18:27 The more that becomes a part of it, 18:28 the more you'll need that kind of stimuli to get you-- 18:32 Pornography is essentially the same thing as self sex, 18:34 I mean self-centered sex 18:35 because rather than having a real person 18:37 that you're going to please, 18:39 you're using this magazine, this internet, 18:41 whatever to stimulate and to please yourself. 18:43 You know, it's interesting because I'm thinking about this, 18:45 I'm saying, okay, there's probably people in the audience, 18:47 people who are watching are saying, 18:48 "Okay, pastor, I get it, I see what you're saying. 18:50 Self-centered sex is not right. 18:52 Masturbation is not God's ideal. 18:54 But the reality is, is I masturbate 18:57 and I keep on masturbating. 18:58 And though I know that's not God's ideal, 19:00 I've tried to stop masturbating. 19:02 I've tried to quit. 19:03 You know, I take cold showers, try to wear gloves. 19:06 You know, I try to do whatever I can to get over the hump 19:09 and so I won't masturbate but the reality is, 19:11 I feel like I'm someone either addicted, bound, 19:15 have this habit that I can't break." 19:16 What do we say to that individual who's watching, 19:19 who says, "I get it, it's not God's plan but I'm just bound. 19:24 How do I get over this?" 19:26 I think you have to identify. 19:27 One of the main things you have to do is 19:29 identify what triggers happen when you masturbate? 19:33 Is it a certain hour at night? 19:35 Is it after certain type of conversation? 19:37 Is it after certain type of T.V. show 19:39 that you're watching? 19:41 Behind the show, you actually gave us an example, 19:44 what's that example you gave us? 19:46 Yeah, you know, like, there's this one individual 19:48 who had shared the idea that you know, 19:50 when they're on the phone with their girl for instance 19:53 at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. 19:55 It's all good, you know, we're just talking. 19:57 But man, we have those 11 o'clock conversations. P.M. 20:01 Yeah, that messes with me. 20:02 And that's not to say 20:04 that there's something wrong with the p.m. 20:05 per se 'cause someone might be the reverse, 20:07 at 11 o' clock, they barely awake on a phone 20:09 but at 2 o' clock-- and so it's just 20:11 the idea of identifying when this is usually happening. 20:14 If it is something also with pornography, 20:16 where you're connecting that, 20:18 make sure when you are on your computer, 20:21 it's facing towards an open door. 20:22 You know, very, very practical things. 20:25 But I think the first thing is 20:26 identify what is it that happens in my life that-- 20:29 after that happens, I usually find myself doing this. 20:32 And when you identify what the trigger is then-- 20:35 no one's saying that all the time 20:37 you got to stop the trigger, 20:38 let's say something inappropriate 20:40 because sometimes they're just certain moments of the month-- 20:41 That you feel-- That you feel that. 20:43 But you got to replace that feeling with something else. 20:46 Right. And you can't just leave-- 20:47 You know, it's interesting, you know, 20:49 I actually heard of an instance 20:50 where there was a gentleman 20:52 who had been masturbating for years 20:54 and he was just so frustrated, so upset with himself, 20:56 he finally went to talk with his pastor about it 20:58 and the pastor, you know, did what you did and said, 21:01 "When are you doing this?" 21:02 He says, "Well, it only happens like Saturday nights." 21:05 He said, "Well, what's going on Saturday night?" 21:06 He says, "I come home, I'm at house-- 21:08 at the house by myself, all my friends, 21:11 all my married friends are out with their families 21:14 and I'm here by myself." 21:15 And as the pastor began to dig a little bit deeper, 21:18 he realized that him masturbating was almost him 21:21 being angry at God. 21:22 Why am I still single? Wow. 21:24 You know, why are all my other friends married 21:26 but I'm not married? 21:27 And I'm at home by myself 21:28 when everyone else is out having a good time. 21:30 And so once he realized that-- 21:31 he was masturbating almost to say, God, I deserve this. 21:35 You know, until you get me a partner, 21:37 I'm gonna masturbate. 21:38 When the pastor was able to kind of pull that thing apart 21:42 and kind of get down the root, he was able to identify, 21:44 man, it's not a sexual issue 21:47 that I'm so dealing with as much as a spiritual issue, 21:51 that I have this disconnect with God 21:52 because of my, my status. 21:54 And so because of that, 21:56 it manifested itself in the sexual realm. 21:58 So understanding the triggers, 21:59 why do I do what I do, is very, very important. 22:03 Yeah, and I think, just kind of, you know, 22:05 the common sense thing that we all know. 22:07 I mean, you can identify triggers but ultimately, 22:10 really, you know, we get strength 22:12 from God to help us overcome. 22:14 And I mean, you know, 22:16 I think, maybe some of our young people may feel like, 22:17 "Oh, well, you know, that's the, 22:19 you know, the pat answer that pastors would give you, 22:23 you know, seek God."-- 22:24 Well, make it practical. What does that look like? 22:25 What does strength from God mean? 22:27 I mean, to a young kid, 16, 17, who struggles with it. 22:29 What is strength from God? 22:31 Yeah, you know, I mean, that's really just really 22:33 developing a relationship with God. 22:35 And I think within that relationship 22:37 as far as spending time with God, 22:40 spending time in His word, prayer, 22:42 doing things that are gonna build you up spiritually. 22:45 It gives you more strength to-- in those times of weakness, 22:49 for God to be able to work through your life. 22:51 Now that's not the only component, 22:53 he said triggers as well, that you also have, 22:55 just man, being accountable. 22:57 Like the guy at the Saturday night thing. 22:58 If you know Saturday night is your night, 23:02 you know, I got to--yo, bro, someone that you confide in. 23:06 Man, I struggle on Saturday nights, brother. 23:09 Let's talk about video games. Let's go play video games. 23:11 Yeah, let's go play, yeah. Come through man. 23:13 You know, 'cause, you know, you're not going-- 23:15 well, you're not going to do your thing. 23:17 Somebody else did. 23:18 When Mike's over at the crib, you know. Amen, amen. 23:21 Let's just deal with the sneak 23:22 into the bathroom-- Yeah, right. 23:24 But piggy backing off of what Alfonzo said, 23:27 I think that strength from Christ-- 23:30 whenever we're getting to that point 23:31 where that urge is driving us to self pleasure, 23:34 we really have to look at it as either this or this. 23:39 We have to go through a comparison. 23:41 We have to get to the point 23:43 where we're willing to admit, okay, 23:46 this is outside of God's will or on this hand, 23:49 this is in God's will for me to abstain. 23:51 Which one is more important to me at this point? 23:54 And we have to continue to ask these questions. 23:57 Is my closeness to Christ more important 24:00 or is my release of this urge more important? 24:03 And the Bible, especially Romans Chapter 8, 24:06 really gives us a promise 24:08 that as we seek our importance rooted in Christ, 24:12 the Holy Spirit will come on the inside of us 24:15 and give us victory over those besetting sins. 24:17 And let me say though, that part of that victory though, 24:20 because I love-- I think 24:21 we need to make spirituality very practical. 24:24 The fact is with that victory, 24:26 the Holy Spirit might lead you to talk to somebody 24:28 because these behaviors like masturbation, pornography, 24:31 are clinically proven to be addictive behaviors. 24:35 These are things that there's nothing wrong 24:37 and I think people need to know 24:38 that after you spend a lot of time in prayer about it. Right. 24:41 After you've been moving that, 24:43 God has set up Christian counselors 24:46 and people to deal with this kind of behavior 24:48 because some people who come to me even as a pastor 24:51 and they say, and I say, 24:52 hey, let's do some of these things we've even talked about. 24:54 You know, God, is sometimes, I think, He's gonna lead him. 24:57 You know, what, there's something else. 24:59 There's another tool that you need to use 25:01 whether it's a recovery program, those things 25:03 because it gets to a point, 25:05 I don't know all of the psychological things 25:07 behind it and physical things 25:09 where it literally becomes this addictive behavior, 25:12 where when you stop it you go through withdrawals 25:15 and those kinds of things. 25:17 And so I just want to make that clear that some people think, 25:19 "oh, if I can't stop, I'm not close enough, 25:21 you know, to God and He's not answering, 25:23 then they say, that means it's okay 25:25 because He's never taken it away." 25:26 Sometimes what God's gonna do, is say, 25:28 "Yeah, I'm gonna be with you but I'm want to be with you 25:31 while you're talking to somebody that's, 25:33 you know, that you could be there." 25:34 And I hope that made it clear. 25:36 So there's some practical things that-- 25:37 You got to do that. You know-- 25:38 He's got be important enough to you do that. Right. 25:40 And I love that idea. 25:42 Being in God's will is so important. 25:44 That I'm gonna do whatever it takes to clear those things-- 25:47 And if I could, I just want to go back 25:49 to this triggers conversation 25:50 that Pastor Kelley brought up earlier. 25:52 Triggers are not always external. 25:55 And, pastor Yelorda, you brought it out clearly 25:58 that this guy had an internal battle. With God. 26:00 This is--with God. Yeah. 26:01 And you could have an internal battle with mom 26:05 or an internal battle with your school environment. 26:08 These triggers can be emotional. 26:10 They could be internal and that's why it's so important 26:13 to be willing to get professional help, 26:15 to go to counseling and say, 26:17 "I know my problem, I just don't know why I do it. 26:20 Can you help me on that journey?" 26:21 And I think we have to be intentional 26:24 as we present this program 26:25 in sharing that it is going to be a battle. 26:29 I think that word is very apropos. 26:32 It's going to be a battle and we have to be intentional. 26:35 I think as spiritual leaders in sharing with our young people 26:39 that it really is that deep. 26:41 We spoke in another program 26:42 about how our media is telling us that, 26:45 you know, expressing your sexuality 26:47 even if it's outside of God's ideal, is not that deep. 26:50 Everybody is doing it, it's natural, it's okay. 26:53 And I think that we have to be intentional about saying, 26:55 it really is that deep. 26:57 It really is something so important 26:59 that you need to go get spiritual help. 27:01 You need to get counseling. 27:03 You need to be able to talk to somebody 27:04 because reaching God's ideal is that important. 27:08 It really is that important to God 27:11 and God is wanting us to experience 27:12 the fullness of what He intended our sexuality to be. 27:15 You know, and we probably need to lift up God's ideal, 27:17 you know, so that everyone understands 27:19 what God has in store for you is something 27:22 so much better than you can imagine the world giving you. 27:25 That God's ideal 27:26 between a husband and a wife is so beautiful. 27:29 It's unfortunate because so many marriages fail. 27:31 They say like 56% of marriage, 27:32 first time marriage end in divorce. 27:34 And so a lot of our young people 27:35 have these distorted pictures of what marriage is. 27:38 But as God designed a husband and wife to come together, 27:40 that thing will satisfy your every need. 27:44 You know, and so masturbating, engaging in illicit sex, 27:49 pre-marital sex is almost like 27:51 rather than waiting for the cake to bake 27:52 you just want to eat the raw eggs. 27:54 You know, rather then waiting for everything to come together, 27:56 you just want to eat the flour, you know. 27:58 And that thing was important to say 27:59 'cause I love the analogy-- That's good. 28:01 Because they're parts of that, that taste good. Yeah. 28:03 But it's not as good as the actual cake. 28:06 And you got to understand that. 28:08 It is good but God always has something 28:10 that is that much better. 28:12 Right. You know. Listen, we got go. 28:14 Our time is up but this was the conversation 28:16 that we need to continue. 28:17 You know, we need to have after show wrap session, 28:19 after the fact we can continue to discuss this issue. 28:22 And for all of our viewers 28:24 we're glad that you've tuned in again. 28:25 We hope we see you next week. 28:27 We're in the process of setting up our Facebook page 28:29 that you could follow us there. 28:30 Facebook, go to Pure Choices. 28:31 If you have questions, comments, 28:33 the five of us will be willing to engage you 28:35 on a personal level there as well. 28:37 And we're just so glad that you're here. 28:38 He hope to see you next week, 28:39 same time, same place, be blessed. |
Revised 2014-12-17