Participants:
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC170035A
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00:27 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:29 We're thankful you've joined us today. 00:31 We're going to be talking about grief. 00:35 The loss of a spouse can be devastating, 00:39 the loss of children doubly devastating. 00:42 But the loss of a spouse and children together 00:46 is completely crushing. 00:48 It's exactly what our guest today 00:49 experienced more than 20 years ago 00:52 when she received news that her husband Jim 00:55 and her two oldest children, Tony, 13, and Joey, 11, 01:00 died in a private plane crash. 01:03 Since then Pat Arrabito has really 01:06 made lemonade out of lemons, if we can call it that. 01:11 God threw her, has recycled this tragedy 01:14 into a wonderful ministry. 01:16 Our program today is called "A Mother's Tears" 01:19 because there's something unique 01:21 about the loss of children. 01:22 Here are some of the things that parents 01:24 who lose children experience, 01:26 the unfairness of it causes anger, 01:29 they experience guilt 01:30 thinking they could have prevented it, 01:32 or guilt about things left unsaid or undone, 01:35 or guilt about needing to grieve, 01:38 or guilt about not grieving enough, 01:40 trauma because it shatters assumptions 01:44 of what should be such as children outliving us, 01:48 or children growing up with their father. 01:52 These horrible traumas can be devastating 01:55 to some individuals. 01:56 And people can develop 01:58 as a result of losses like these, 01:59 something called complicated grief, 02:01 complicated grief sets in. 02:03 When an individual doesn't process the grief 02:06 and rather than getting better, they get worse. 02:09 Symptoms can include extreme focus on the loss, 02:13 and reminders of the loved one. 02:16 Intense longing or pining for the deceased, 02:19 problems accepting the death, numbness or detachment, 02:23 preoccupation with the sorrow, bitterness about the loss, 02:26 inability to enjoy life, depression or deep sadness, 02:30 trouble carrying out normal activities, 02:32 withdrawing from social activities, 02:34 feeling that life holds no meaning or purpose, 02:37 irritability or agitation, and lack of trust in others. 02:40 I don't believe that our guests today 02:42 experienced complicated grief 02:45 because of the level of resiliency 02:47 that God was able to give her. 02:49 But I do believe that she experienced 02:52 complicated loss 02:53 that could have turned into complicated grief. 02:55 But instead there was what in psychology 02:59 we sometimes call posttraumatic growth. 03:02 Post traumatic growth is when an individual 03:04 has a devastating experience, but instead of getting bitter, 03:07 they get better. 03:09 They actually turn that devastating experience 03:11 into the basic materials of personal growth. 03:15 Some of the features 03:17 act over the characteristics of a person 03:19 who experiences posttraumatic growth is spirituality, 03:23 faith in God, 03:24 also social support both before and after the trauma 03:28 tends to lead to posttraumatic growth. 03:30 And then finally, what we call acceptance coping, 03:34 accepting the tragedy 03:36 not in such a way 03:37 that you accept the notion of tragedy 03:40 or think that it was somehow good 03:43 in and of itself, 03:44 but acceptance of it as something that happened, 03:47 and then moving into the future in a constructive manner 03:50 dealing with that tragedy. 03:52 And that's exactly what our guest today has done. 03:55 So glad that we have Pat Arrabito with us. 03:58 Pat runs LLT productions in California, 04:03 and she's going to be sharing with us her story today. 04:05 But let me introduce my panel as well. 04:07 This is Rob Davidson, 04:08 professional counselor from Maryland. 04:10 This is Nicole Parker, 04:12 biblical counselor from Tennessee, 04:14 and also teaches at Southern Adventist University. 04:17 And this is Dr. Jean Wright, my friend from Philadelphia, 04:20 which I missed very much, by the way, 04:22 and he is a forensic and criminal psychologist. 04:26 Did I say that right? 04:28 Clinical forensic psychologist, very close. 04:30 Very close, I switched center. 04:31 So clinical forensic psychologist from Philadelphia. 04:35 We're so glad to have each one of you here today 04:37 so that we can unpack this. 04:38 But let's get into your story first, Pat. 04:42 I just want to ask you, 04:43 what was it like the moment you received that news? 04:46 Let me tell you about it. 04:47 It was, well, you can all imagine. 04:50 But my husband had taken our two oldest boys 04:52 on a trip to Alaska. 04:54 He was doing some photography up there, 04:55 and he had enough miles for two free tickets. 04:58 And, of course, the boys were outdoors kids, 05:00 they loved the thought of going to Alaska, 05:01 it's a dream come true. 05:03 So for 10 days, they were up there, 05:06 you know, fishing and getting to know 05:08 native kids and loving it. 05:10 They flew home on a private plane 05:12 while they flew into Anchorage that was the goal. 05:15 It was late at night, a storm blew up, 05:18 and the plane was missing. 05:20 I didn't know that until one of our helpers 05:23 had gone to the airport to pick them up 05:25 on that afternoon. 05:27 They're supposed to fly out early in the morning, 05:28 he went to pick them up, they didn't come off the plane. 05:31 And I hadn't heard a word, 05:33 and I had to call up to Alaska 05:34 to find out that there's small plane, 05:36 it never landed in Anchorage the night before. 05:39 So, of course, there was a bit of a shock. 05:42 But I thought, I know that God is taking care of them 05:46 because first of all, we prayed for their safe return 05:48 the whole time they were gone, me and my two younger kids. 05:51 And secondly, Jim was doing this work 05:52 that we had watched God bless, 05:54 and open doors for and provide for, 05:56 and I knew that that job wasn't done. 05:57 So I didn't panic. 05:59 I called my other two kids in and some friends 06:01 and we prayed for them. 06:03 And then we just had to wait because weather was bad, 06:06 search and rescue was out, 06:07 but they hadn't been able to do much. 06:10 So it wasn't until the next afternoon 06:12 that I was called by search and rescue 06:14 that they had located the plane. 06:18 And in the meantime, when I went to bed that night, 06:21 you know, I was confident that everyone was fine. 06:25 But I asked God, you know, 06:26 "Talk to me, I need to hear some words from You." 06:30 And I opened my Bible, and I'm not just big on, 06:33 you know, opening it, but I did, 06:35 I opened my Bible and my eyes went right 06:37 to this verse in Job 23:10, and it said, 06:41 "I know the way that you've taken 06:43 when I've tried you, you should come forth as gold." 06:45 And I thought, you know, how can You give me that one? 06:49 Is it just because it's a trial to have to wait? 06:51 You still, at this point, 06:52 weren't not sure if the status or... 06:54 I mean, I sure am, I was sure at this point 06:56 that they probably had to make an emergency landing, 06:59 but they were okay 07:00 because God wasn't done with them yet. 07:02 And the other thing was, 07:03 I knew that God would not allow me to lose a child. 07:07 Because I had that verse in 1 Corinthians 10:13, 07:11 it says, "There's no temptation will come to you 07:12 that's cometh to man. 07:14 And with every temptation," 07:16 and there would be nothing that you can't bear. 07:18 And God would try to provide a way of escape. 07:20 And in my heart, I always knew that 07:21 I couldn't bear to lose a child. 07:23 So I knew that God would not allow me to lose a child. 07:26 So it wasn't really an option for me, I come to that promise. 07:31 And the next afternoon, 07:32 then search and rescue called that 07:34 they had located the plane, but they didn't. 07:36 They said they were sending a helicopter in. 07:39 And my brother, who is a pilot 07:40 had been keeping in touch with them also. 07:42 He lived in Sacramento, you know, 07:45 less than an hour's flight away. 07:46 And he called them, 07:47 then he called me back, and he says, 07:49 "I'm going to fly over and just be with you 07:50 when you get the news." 07:52 So he flew over, 07:53 my house was full of people by this time, 07:55 our neighbors, our friends, my dad, our pastor, 07:59 just everyone waiting for news. 08:01 And my brother, my dad went to pick Tom up 08:04 with our little airport there, and they came in, 08:07 and they took me outside. 08:09 And my dad and brother 08:10 just wrapped their arms around me. 08:12 And they said, there are no survivors. 08:16 And, you know, I don't even... 08:19 Sorry. 08:20 I don't even know how long I was out there. 08:22 You know, I felt like I was spinning out 08:24 in the universe somewhere. 08:26 And the words are going around, and then I was feeling like, 08:29 "No, but there are survivors because I'm still here, 08:32 and my two other children are still here. 08:34 And, you know, we were, we were one, 08:36 our family was a unit, and Jim and I were one." 08:39 And I felt that, you know, that, 08:41 "No, we're still surviving." 08:44 And finally, someone from the house 08:47 came out and said, "You know, 08:48 your kids are getting really restless, 08:49 you need to come in. 08:51 And I went in, and Andy, who was seven, 08:53 just ran toward me, 08:55 and he just flung out these words, 08:57 my daddy's dead, isn't he? 09:01 You know, as parents, you want to protect your kids. 09:05 It's your job to protect your kids, 09:07 then I couldn't protect him. 09:09 And I had to acknowledge to him, 09:14 even if I'd said it wasn't true, it was true. 09:16 And I had to be the one that landed that blow on him. 09:21 And I just could hardly bear it. 09:23 And then they were, both my kids are on my lap. 09:25 My daughter, Adele was almost nine. 09:28 And they're both on my lap. 09:29 And she said, "What about Tony and Joey?" 09:31 And I had to do it again. 09:33 And I had to say they're gone too. 09:35 And I felt like 09:38 we were this tiniest dot in the universe, 09:42 and we're this tiniest dot of the most intense agony 09:45 in the whole universe. 09:47 And I thought, you know, does God know? 09:49 And does He see us down here, does He know our agony, 09:54 you know, and I had then such a sense 09:59 that God was there, 10:00 I had this peace that just filled me inside. 10:04 And there was the sense like, 10:06 I felt like God was saying to me, 10:08 "You know, it's My loss too. 10:11 You know, I love them too, this is My agony too, 10:13 and this is My loss, 10:15 and I won't get to see them either 10:17 until the resurrection." 10:18 And I felt such a sense of His presence 10:21 in this core piece that I knew it was not me. 10:24 And then my daughter said, 10:27 "Mom, I'm sure glad you're not the kind of person 10:28 that blames God for everything." 10:30 And I thought, 10:32 "Wow, does she feel God's presence too?" 10:34 And yet at the same time, my son is blaming God 10:37 because, you know, we're all so different. 10:39 And God understands that, and in his mind was like, 10:43 "If God is so good, 10:45 He wouldn't have let this happen to me." 10:48 You know, and he has, "If God is so strong, 10:51 He would have stopped it." 10:52 You know, and those are the things 10:53 that are going through his mind. 10:56 And yet, there was God in the midst of it. 10:58 And I've never once in all the times 11:00 we've talked about this, 11:02 I've never noticed even the slightest bit 11:04 of blaming of God 11:06 or resentment toward Him or anything like that. 11:08 And I think that's why you've been able to move on. 11:11 You know, I could see the ways that God gave me preparation. 11:16 And when it happened, I almost had this feeling, 11:18 oh, like this is what you're preparing me for. 11:21 You know, from the time my boys were little, 11:24 I could see God giving me preparation for that. 11:27 How so? Can you unpack that a little? 11:29 Yeah, I remember reading, you know, 11:32 from one of my favorite authors, 11:33 from Ellen White, long ago, you know, 11:35 that before things got really bad on earth 11:38 that God will lay some of our children to rest. 11:42 And I remember when I read that, 11:43 feeling impressive, that was for me, 11:45 and my Tony and Joey were probably 11:46 one and three years old when I read that. 11:48 I remember feeling this sense there for me. 11:50 And I remember feeling like, "Moses' mom knew that 11:53 she had 12 years with him, I don't know 11:55 how long I have with my kids. 11:56 But I'm preparing them for heaven." 11:58 I know, as parents, as Christian parents, 12:00 we all feel like 12:01 we're preparing our kids for heaven. 12:03 But there was more than, you know, 12:05 there was a bigger sense of that with my boys. 12:08 In here, they were 11 and 13 when I lost them, 12:11 and I could look back and see. 12:13 And in other ways, for some reason, 12:15 I had just wanted to study the Book of Job. 12:19 I was on my way through it for the second time, 12:21 I wanted to understand Job's brilliance. 12:22 And that's really weird because you had this 12:24 like idyllic life kind of, 12:26 and then you're reading the book in the Bible 12:28 about tragedy. 12:30 Well, and the other thing, you know, 12:31 I remember reading in Hebrews 2 12:34 where Jesus Himself perfected a character through suffering. 12:37 I remember thinking, 12:39 "I've never really suffered in my life. 12:41 Really, I've had a good life." 12:43 I would argue with that knowing about your childhood, but... 12:45 Well, for the most part, 12:47 it was a great childhood for the most part, yeah. 12:49 Okay. 12:50 Anyway, I mean, there's no abuse in our home 12:53 or anything like that at all. 12:54 Okay. 12:56 Pat, here we are 20 years later, 12:58 and you have feelings 13:01 now as you're telling the story again. 13:03 How often did these feelings come up 13:05 where you just intensely feel the loss? 13:09 Not as often as they used to. 13:11 I cried every day for a year, but I don't cry every day now. 13:15 You know, time gives you some history, 13:20 so that there's history between the loss and now, 13:22 and those are things you think about, 13:24 but, you know, 13:25 a loss of somebody you love is with you forever. 13:28 Do you envision what your kids would be 13:30 if they were still alive? 13:31 That's something that often grieved parents do. 13:34 I sometimes think of that 13:35 because my son's had three cousins, 13:38 three male cousins, all of the same age. 13:39 There was five boys all born within a year of each other. 13:42 So I've watched my nephews grow up, 13:44 and I think about what my boys were like, 13:47 and what they would be like now, 13:48 my oldest son, Tony was very scholarly. 13:52 And, you know, he read very, you know, he read widely, 13:58 he had probably read, I mean, 14:00 he'd read the Bible through by the time he was 13, 14:03 and he had read just scores of other books. 14:05 And he, you know, he loved nature, 14:08 he'd go bring in fresh road kill, and skin it, 14:11 and, you know, tan hides, 14:14 and he'd look at all the organs and see what they were like. 14:16 And I thought, "You know, 14:17 maybe this boy will be a surgeon. 14:21 Homeschooling mom. 14:22 Yeah, you know, that's another thing 14:24 I'm still grateful for, is I homeschooled my kids, 14:26 and I got to be with them every day, 14:28 you know, I'm the one that got to see their first steps. 14:30 And I'm the one that got to hear their first words, 14:31 and I'm the one that got to watch them, 14:34 you know, expand and grow. 14:36 And, you know, 14:37 much as every parent feels like, 14:38 they didn't do well enough. 14:40 I'm so grateful 14:42 for getting to be a part of all of that 14:44 and be the one to do that. 14:46 You know, Jennifer said something 14:48 earlier about you didn't blame God, 14:49 and you didn't do any of those bitter, 14:52 those bitter things against God. 14:53 I'm interested in, 14:55 did you go through any stages at all. 14:56 I mean, I know that the Elizabeth Kubler-Ross 14:58 stages have been kind of fallen on disrepute lately, 15:01 but just wondering for your situation. 15:03 Not really, you know, when I got the news, 15:06 I knew it was true. 15:08 There was nothing in me that, that can't be there. 15:12 I knew it was true. 15:14 I accepted it, I believed it. 15:16 I mean, you know, I've been spending 15:17 two days praying about it up till that point. 15:21 And while I knew that God wouldn't let me lose a child, 15:24 God, let me lose two children and a husband all at once. 15:27 And I could see that God carried me. 15:31 You know, He was right there. 15:32 I wasn't alone in it. 15:34 I didn't bear the whole weight of it all by myself. 15:37 There was such a sense 15:38 that God was right there with me. 15:40 And like, and, you know, 15:42 he'd given me words before that. 15:44 There was a time when I'd be so discouraged at my kids, 15:47 you know, you feel the weight of their salvation 15:49 on your shoulders, and one time, 15:51 and my husband traveled a lot 15:52 because he was doing evangelism. 15:54 And one time he had gone, 15:56 been gone for six weeks out of a seven week trip. 15:58 And I was just like, this is too much. 16:01 I'm home with four kids and all week long, 16:04 all I could see was their faults, 16:06 and they just loom huge before you. 16:08 And Friday night, I put them all to bed early. 16:10 And I sat down on the couch and I cried. 16:13 I said, "God, look at my kids, you got to talk to me. 16:16 Look at my kids. 16:17 I can't even save myself, much less them." 16:19 And I was so, so discouraged. 16:21 And again, it's another of those times 16:23 when God led me right to words. 16:25 And He led me to Isaiah 49:24, 25 16:28 where it says, you know, 16:29 "I'll contend with him who contends with you, 16:31 and I will save your children." 16:33 You know, how much more clearly could God have told me 16:36 it's His job not mine, and that He will do it, 16:40 you know, and I can trust Him, I can trust Him to do it. 16:44 So that was another way of preparation, 16:46 and I felt like, "Wow, you know, He already did that 16:48 for two of my children now. 16:50 Does your son know that scripture 16:52 that's so dear to you, 16:54 the one that right now today is... 16:57 I would guess that he's heard it, 16:59 but, you know, he's an adult now, 17:01 hasn't been home for a while. 17:03 But that would be an interesting thing 17:04 to bring that up to him. 17:07 You know, I get kind of aggravated 17:10 when I hear a sort of a version of God caring for us, 17:15 that's almost trivialized, where it's like, 17:18 everything ends up being okay. 17:20 With the loss that's devastating, 17:22 everything is really never okay. 17:25 And there isn't a little bow on it, 17:27 that you can say, "Oh, look how pretty." 17:28 You know, it's a constant process of God 17:31 recycling the devastating effects of sin 17:34 into something 17:36 that produces growth in us, growth in our characters. 17:38 But it doesn't necessarily produce a pretty life. 17:41 And if our goal is to have a pretty life, 17:44 and have happiness, 17:46 we're going to be sorely disappointed on earth. 17:48 But if our goal is growth, 17:49 it's going to be a completely different story. 17:50 There is no such thing as just a pretty life. 17:53 There is no such thing. 17:56 You know, if Jesus Himself suffered 17:58 in order to develop a character, 18:00 how could any of us be like Him without that? 18:02 And I realized that, 18:04 that was part of the preparation 18:05 that I never really suffered. 18:07 I'm really going to be like Jesus, you know, 18:08 my life will have suffering too. 18:10 And I don't know anyone that hasn't had suffering. 18:13 That's the human condition on planet earth. 18:15 And yet there is God, 18:18 He's right there in the midst of it. 18:20 And He's there, you know, for me, He comforted me, 18:23 it wasn't a painless study, 18:25 like I said, I cried every day, over and over again. 18:29 And you think, how can someone be alive this minute, 18:31 and they're not alive the next minute, 18:32 how can that be, you know, it's incomprehensible. 18:36 For our understanding, yeah, we weren't created for death. 18:37 Yeah. 18:39 And yet, you still had two kids to raise. 18:41 I had, still had two kids, 18:42 and what happens to them happens to me. 18:44 Right. 18:45 And I'm wondering about the effects, 18:46 the long term effects of grief on them because, you know, 18:49 the little bow on it whole pretty life thing, 18:51 like they don't fake, kids don't pretend 18:54 everything's okay if it's not okay. 18:55 Did you watch this... 18:57 And I would think, you, being a mother, 18:59 and so and emphatically connected to your kids, 19:01 it would be almost worse what they were going through 19:03 than what you are going through. 19:04 You know, at first I thought, 19:06 "Well, God, you let this happen to my children. 19:08 I had the ideal home. 19:09 In that, I got to be home with my kids, 19:11 my husband and I loved each other." 19:12 We got, you know, in so many ways, 19:13 I had everything that really counted, 19:15 and now I'm minus. 19:17 One of the most important factors for a kid, a dad. 19:21 And I thought, "Well, God, you let this happen to my kids, 19:23 but You will protect them from the damage of it." 19:27 But no, it's not true, 19:28 they're damaged, we're all damaged. 19:31 And I watched that, you know, 19:32 kids without a dad 19:34 have their own unique set of problems. 19:36 And especially for my son, he, you know, 19:40 his two older brothers were his mentors, 19:42 his heroes, you know, 19:44 all the men in his life were gone. 19:46 And it was like, gravity was gone for him. 19:48 And he was always a challenging kid, 19:51 and they helped people led on him. 19:52 And literally, it was like, gravity was gone for him. 19:55 And he, you know, 19:57 he didn't know how to deal with it. 19:59 He's a very bright, particular creative, 20:03 kind of amazing person. 20:05 He's, you know, he developed himself 20:07 out of that in ways that I would never expected. 20:11 Like he became a navy seal, and I asked him, 20:15 "Is that have anything to do with 20:16 losing your dad and brothers?" 20:18 He says, "Oh, yeah, everything, 20:19 you know, they weren't protected, now. 20:21 I'm the ultimate protector." 20:22 You're gonna make yourself invincible. 20:25 But that's what we always do. 20:26 If we can't believe that God is good, 20:29 we try to get into His place and be better than He has been. 20:33 If we can't believe that God is love, 20:35 we either try to make somebody else be love for us 20:39 or we try to be love through somebody else. 20:41 We try to become our own gods. 20:42 We become codependent in our relationships, 20:44 either by trying to be God 20:46 or trying to make someone else be God for us, 20:48 satisfy us in those ways. 20:50 And in the same way, 20:51 if we can't believe God is powerful enough, 20:53 we try to be powerful. 20:54 It's an essence of sin. 20:57 Yeah, we all have our own journeys, 20:59 and your son's journey is not over by any means. 21:02 It's part of the story, it's not all of a story. 21:04 I still have that promise. 21:05 Absolutely. 21:07 And I still believe it with all my heart. 21:08 I have no doubt that God does what He says He'll do. 21:12 Beautiful faith. 21:14 How about your relationship with him? 21:16 Is that been kind of 21:17 a stabilizing force in his life? 21:19 Probably we've had our ups and our downs, 21:23 but I'm always there. 21:24 Yes, yes, we've all experienced that. 21:27 You know, we have a unique bond, 21:30 and partly just because he was a child 21:32 that required a lot of mothering. 21:34 I always said he was a five mom child. 21:36 I thank God for every other mom in his life. 21:40 For my daughter, you know, 21:41 the process was completely different. 21:42 She didn't want to think about it. 21:44 She didn't want. 21:46 She didn't like it when Andy and I cried every day. 21:48 Oh, he cried with you. 21:49 But she would kind of let you off. 21:51 Yeah, she didn't really want it. 21:53 She, you know, wasn't like she didn't acknowledge it, 21:55 but she just didn't want to dwell on it. 21:57 Yeah. 21:59 And it took her five years 22:00 before she was able to set herself down 22:03 and really look at a hugeness of it. 22:06 And how old was she at that time 22:07 when she finally did that? 22:08 Fourteen. Fourteen. 22:10 And then when she was 14, she let herself look at it, 22:14 and she made her adult commitment to God 22:17 at that time because she realized 22:18 there's nothing she could do about it. 22:21 She was devastated. 22:22 She could acknowledge it, and no way to fix it. 22:25 You know, almost everything in life, 22:26 we have some choice over. 22:28 Yeah. 22:29 But the only choice we have is how we're going to react. 22:31 But people can refuse to accept a tragedy like that, 22:35 and they can push back on it and keep asking why, 22:38 not that it's always bad to ask why, Jesus asked why, 22:41 but you keep asking why in such a way 22:43 that it really amounts to not accepting. 22:46 It's a way of not accepting. 22:48 I never felt like why was my question. 22:50 I always felt like, my question was, 22:52 do I trust God, or do I not trust God? 22:55 And I had already decided that God is good. 22:57 You know, I read here that God is good, 23:00 and I read here that God loves me. 23:01 So if God is good, and God loves me, 23:04 then I have to look at everything through that lens. 23:06 And don't you think 23:08 when people look to what happens 23:09 or doesn't happen in this world, 23:11 there's evidence of whether God is good or not, 23:13 they end up setting themselves up 23:14 for coming to the wrong conclusion. 23:16 But if we look at the cross, 23:18 and we look at the story of redemption, 23:20 we see that God is good. 23:21 So we really need to take care 23:22 as to look to the right evidence 23:24 to find out if God is good or not. 23:25 Yeah. 23:26 And this is the same experience that Job went through. 23:28 He knew God was good, 23:29 but he couldn't stand what was happening to him. 23:32 And same with David in the Psalms. 23:34 David continually convinced himself that God was good, 23:37 even though he couldn't stand on. 23:38 He did rail on him. 23:40 Yes, he did... 23:41 Did you ever do that? 23:44 Not in your soft, gentle way. 23:46 You I know, there's so... 23:47 I did a lot of journaling, and there were times 23:49 when I would just start out, you know, 23:52 with all that, and I'd always end up praising. 23:54 And I thought, this is so, you know, this is so weird. 23:58 How can... How does it happen? 23:59 But isn't it great that HE didn't strike you dead 24:01 with lightning bolt before you got to that point? 24:05 You know. I never saw God that way. 24:07 I never saw God as punitive or... 24:10 So you felt free to vent, if you needed to vent. 24:13 But on the other hand, you just didn't need to really 24:16 after at least a short time. 24:17 You know, I was more about for me, I... 24:19 When I journal, I'm like trying to identify how I feel, 24:23 and why I feel that way, you know, 24:25 and what triggers that feeling. 24:27 And so I'm always trying to get down to the meaning 24:29 of how I'm feeling. 24:31 And in that process, 24:33 it really helps me figure it out. 24:35 I mean, I come to answers and conclusions, 24:37 just by going through the process of understanding. 24:40 You were doing cognitive behavioral therapy also. 24:43 Before we even knew what it was. 24:46 Essentially these kinds of circumstances force us 24:50 to grapple with what we really believe about 24:52 how the universe runs, if God if really is good. 24:56 I mean, we all know that terrible things are happening 24:59 over in Africa, India or somewhere 25:01 to people we don't know. 25:02 But we like to live in an illusion 25:05 that if we're good people, and we don't do bad things, 25:07 then bad things won't happen to us. 25:10 And that, that kind of discounts the value 25:13 of all those other people, 25:14 is it their faults that bad things happen. 25:17 Right, so have to grapple with at some point, 25:20 you know, why not me? 25:22 I went through a difficult time when we thought, 25:25 my husband was likely to die too. 25:28 He had a terrible diagnosis, and I had small children, 25:31 and I could see myself at the grave. 25:34 Over and over, it just came to me, 25:36 what are we going to do? 25:37 How old are my kids going to be? 25:39 But I also didn't really grapple with 25:41 why because what's the use of why me? 25:44 Why not me? 25:46 Why everybody else, but not me. 25:48 Does everybody else deserve it? 25:49 Yeah. That came to me too. 25:51 With the amount of suffering that we see in this world, 25:53 why shouldn't it happen to me too? 25:55 That's right. 25:56 Especially when we're the ones who are actually equipped 25:59 to grapple with questions about the character of God 26:01 because we see so much in His Word. 26:03 We know that there's this great controversy going on 26:06 between Christ and Satan. 26:08 Why should we not have to suffer pain 26:11 in order to learn to hate sin? 26:13 So if you have wrong expectations of God, 26:15 you're setting yourself up for disappointment, 26:17 and from really being estranged from God 26:19 or resentful toward Him. 26:20 If you expect Him to make your life a piece of cake, 26:23 I'm sorry, but it's not going to go that way. 26:24 It happens all the time. 26:26 Yeah, that people expect that. 26:27 Yeah, look how many people reject God or throw Him out 26:31 because something bad happened to them? 26:32 Yeah, it does. 26:33 But that's based on false expectations. 26:35 Yeah, He gives us a ministry, and a mission, 26:38 and a vision after tragedy. 26:40 And when you mentioned some people 26:41 never come to grips with it. 26:43 It kind of hit me that 20 years after, 26:45 not only have you survived, you thrived, 26:47 and you're probably helping many, many people, 26:50 and so that's the outcome. 26:51 I call her the counselors' counselor 26:53 because when I need help with something serious, 26:55 I call her, I call her in tears, 26:57 she's got a gift. 26:59 Yeah, what better person that has experienced 27:00 what you have experienced. 27:02 To then, pour into others who are suffering. 27:04 It amazes me that God takes, you know, 27:06 the things that caused us the deepest pains, 27:09 and He uses it to bless somebody else. 27:11 Absolutely. 27:12 Things that were not His will, 27:13 but He uses to accomplish His greater purpose 27:15 of changing us into His image and revealing 27:18 to the universe that He really is good, 27:20 and that sin really is bad. 27:22 And what we're going to do during the second half 27:24 is we're going to probe that because actually, 27:26 your life went on from there. 27:27 In fact, it was more than 20 years ago. 27:29 So amazing things have happened since then, 27:31 and we want to hear about those amazing things 27:33 because you took this tragedy 27:35 and you took up where Jim left off, 27:38 and you carried that ministry into the future. 27:40 And God has been able to do amazing things 27:42 through that ministry. 27:43 And we want to hear about it. 27:44 I'm assuming you want to hear about it too. 27:46 Absolutely. Yes. 27:47 So we want you guys to tune in on part two 27:50 of "A Mother's Tears," and learn how God can make 27:54 triumph out of tragedy. 27:56 God bless. |
Revised 2018-12-30