Participants: Jennifer Jill Schwirzer (Host), Christina Ceccoto, Paul Coneff, Shelley Wiggins, Elise Harboldt
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC000018A
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00:26 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors
00:29 where we tell our stories 00:31 because the last chapter is healing. 00:32 We're going to be talking today about: Beyond Bulimia. 00:37 Bulimia is an eating disorder 00:39 characterized by undue focus on weight and food 00:42 and bingeing... purging behaviors 00:44 which includes self-induced vomiting, 00:46 laxatives and exercise. 00:48 Prevalence is... 00:50 across the US... about 1.5 percent of women 00:53 and 0.5 percent of men have bulimia. 00:56 There is no isolated cause to this illness 00:59 but I think, the media has a lot to do with it 01:01 because we see a couple of things happening 01:04 in the media more and more, 01:05 one is that the ideal of beauty is far thinner than the average 01:09 and the real woman is heavy... is getting heavier 01:13 as the ideal of beauty is getting thinner and thinner. 01:16 We also hear a message in the media often 01:19 about hyper-palatable foods or, what we call, junk foods 01:23 and how wonderful they are 01:25 and so we're just bombarded with these conflicting messages 01:28 and it sets up a lot of stress in women's minds. 01:31 The prognosis is that it is a serious illness... 01:35 suicide is higher among people with bulimia. 01:39 Early aggressive intervention 01:41 is the best way to approach this illness 01:43 and there is much more positive outcome 01:45 if it's done early on in the game. 01:48 Bulimia responds to both talk therapy 01:52 and antidepressant therapy. 01:53 We find that people with bulimia are what we call, "ego-dystonic" 01:58 the illness is dissonant to their self... 02:00 they don't like having the illness... 02:03 they feel ashamed of it... they're embarrassed of it 02:05 whereas anorexia which is another eating disorder 02:08 is an "ego-syntonic" disorder 02:10 meaning it is in sync with the ego... 02:12 in fact, people with anorexia 02:15 are often happy that they have it... strangely enough, 02:18 so, as a result, people with bulimia often have mood issues, 02:22 they're depressed about it 02:23 and anti-depressants can sometimes lift the mood 02:26 and give them enough impetus to get out of the cycle 02:29 but then, there's always God 02:31 and what He can do in our experience 02:33 and we have an amazing story today 02:35 from my dear friend, Elise Harboldt, 02:37 she's going to be sharing with us today, her story... 02:41 and I want to introduce her, she's a freelance writer... 02:44 creative... what do you call yourself? 02:47 I'm a Communicator. 02:48 Okay, she's a Communicator and currently you live in Oregon... 02:52 part time in California, part time? 02:54 Elise: Little bit... 02:55 Jennifer: Yeah, she's creative in the way she lives too 02:58 because she moves around a lot 03:00 and does a lot of interesting things. 03:01 We're so thankful you're here, 03:03 I'm just grateful you're willing to come and share your story. 03:05 We also have our Licensed Professional Counselor, 03:08 Shelly Wiggins from Michigan, 03:11 Marriage and Family Therapist, Paul Coneff from Texas, 03:15 Professional Counselor Christina Cecotto from Georgia. 03:19 So glad each one of you is here as well. 03:21 So, Elise, let's start with your story, 03:24 when did it all start? 03:26 Sure, so, I think... 03:28 I like to think of it starting in the womb 03:31 because it says in Psalm 139 03:34 that God knit us together in our mothers' wombs 03:36 and that we're fearfully and wonderfully made 03:39 but because we're not aware of that, 03:42 we run into different stories 03:45 where that's not part of the way 03:47 that we're thinking and living our lives 03:49 so, the real problem started when I was about 12, 03:52 I was... I moved a lot growing up 03:58 and definitely had family that cared about me 04:00 but I did not feel like normal and accepted 04:03 and just like... as part of the peer group, 04:06 and so, I became convinced which was really easy to do 04:11 as a young woman, that if I was... 04:14 if I had the perfect body... 04:15 then I would be loved and accepted 04:17 it was like this "easy fix" to just wanting to be okay. 04:23 So, I started... 04:24 my journey started actually with anorexia, not bulimia. 04:28 I was restricting at 12 and 13... 04:31 and I had been relatively thin to begin with 04:35 and it quickly spiraled into 04:38 just something really out of control. 04:40 I was hospitalized a couple of times, 04:42 this is a picture right before I went into the hospital 04:47 with my grandparents and... like you said... 04:52 there's a... just... almost a euphoria 04:56 and an excitement about having this illness 04:59 because, the belief is that there's a goal inside 05:03 and that there's love in that goal, 05:05 so, I was very resistant to getting help 05:10 and getting treatment 05:11 because I felt like that was just being... you know... 05:13 like, taken away from me... 05:15 where this is, like, clearly the solution to my problem 05:18 and I worked so hard towards that, 05:22 so I was just very resistant 05:25 and the next picture is taken from my art journal 05:29 when I was in the hospital 05:30 and I think it really speaks to 05:33 the way that the enemy gets into our minds 05:37 I wrote... this is a picture of me 05:39 and I said, "Will somebody please give this girl freedom?" 05:43 But by freedom, I didn't mean freedom from being sick, 05:46 I meant freedom to be as thin as I wanted to be 05:51 where, now I look back and I'm like... 05:54 "Oh my goodness, I'm just so grateful to be free 05:57 but I'm not free in the way that I thought... " 06:00 It just crushes me inside to see that picture... 06:03 don't you just... oh... when I see you 06:06 and I know you so well and I love you and care about you 06:08 and I just see you and want to just... like a wounded bird... 06:11 how did you get out of it, what happened? 06:15 Well, I had the opportunity to go to academy 06:19 and I had to make a decision, 06:20 "Do I want to be skinny?" or "Do I want to go to school?" 06:22 Because they said, 06:23 "You have to weigh 115 pounds in order to go to academy. " 06:27 And I thought long and hard about it, 06:28 and I just really believe God gave me that grace 06:31 to decide that I wanted to go 06:32 but I still thought in my mind, 06:34 "Well, as soon as I'm 18... I'm just going to lose the weight. " 06:37 While I was in Academy, the Dean there, J.P. Mathis, 06:41 was such a special lady and she was teaching NEWSTART 06:46 for part of the chapels, 06:47 so every week we'll learn about nutrition, exercise, water... 06:52 all the different health habits 06:53 and I remember... that was really the first time 06:55 I'd see the big view of the health message 06:58 and I thought, "Whoa, God has a health plan for me 07:01 and He probably... 07:03 that probably doesn't include an eating disorder... " 07:06 so that's where I had to make a... 07:09 I had to struggle because it was like this conviction 07:12 that, you know, 07:15 that part of my identity wasn't part of God's plan 07:18 and so, even though I had already 07:20 kind of recovered weightwise... 07:22 that's when I made the decision, like, "I'm going to recover" 07:26 because it's my decision 07:28 and not because somebody is forcing me to. " 07:29 Jennifer: And isn't this what they... 07:31 Shelly, isn't that the way they treat... 07:32 particularly anorexia, they get your weight up, 07:35 they don't even try to work with the cognitive stuff until... 07:37 Shelly: The re-feeding process has to take place 07:39 in order to deal with the depression 07:41 because normally, they're co-existing morbidly 07:45 so if you can't get a person re-fed... 07:48 then their brain isn't going to be working 07:50 to make the cognitive decision to say, 07:53 "Yeah, I'm going to embrace life I'm going to choose life, 07:55 I'm going to embrace my spirituality 07:57 and invite Jesus in to this process... " 07:59 so, first things first, we got to re-feed... 08:02 Jennifer: The brain is a physical organ, 08:03 it has to be nourished to function, 08:05 and so, "Talk Therapy" at that point 08:06 is going to be useless, so, 08:08 that's kind of how it worked out for you 08:10 because you get back your strength 08:11 and then, a little ways down the road, you realize... 08:13 you see this vision of health and you decide to embrace it. 08:16 Right, and yet, it can be really challenging 08:19 because if... like I remember as I was getting better, 08:24 people... I mean... 08:25 just not getting better... but gaining weight, people said: 08:27 "Oh, you look so much better, you look so healthy... " 08:28 well, that to me, that just means, "You're fat" 08:30 and so, we need to be careful 08:32 to not view a healthy weight as health... 08:36 because there are many people that are at a healthy weight 08:38 that have an eating disorder. 08:40 Jennifer: Hmmm... hmmm... that's right. 08:41 Paul: Because they're hearing our words... 08:44 we're trying to affirm them, "Be positive... " 08:46 but they're hearing the words... 08:48 our words... through their filter... 08:49 through their negative thought patterns 08:51 and negative identities. 08:52 Christina: Through their cognitive distortions. 08:53 Elise: Yeah, right. 08:55 Jennifer: And through the false standard 08:56 that you're laboring under, 08:57 which is, you have to be "stick-thin" 08:59 and basically be underfed and you're... 09:00 if that's your standard, someone says, 09:02 "Oh, you look great, you put on some weight... " 09:03 it sounds like you failed that standard, so... 09:05 Elise: Yeah... yeah... Jennifer: Wow! 09:07 Shelly: Do you ever remember praying a prayer 09:09 "God give me the eyes to see myself, the way you see me... " 09:15 to be able to get that cognitive distortion turned around. 09:21 Elise: More recently, when I was anorexic, 09:26 I so identified with that 09:31 and so believed that that was my ticket to being loved, 09:35 that I actually stopped praying and I stopped singing 09:39 and I was like... 09:40 "Well, I'm not allowed to be happy if I'm fat... " 09:44 like, "I'm not allowed to be enjoying myself... " 09:47 it made me feel like I was better at being sick 09:50 if I could, like, punish myself by not doing it 09:53 and I remember, one time, something really funny happened 09:55 and I laughed... and that was like, 09:57 "Oooooh... " like, feeling guilty for laughing... 10:00 Jennifer: For laughing...? 10:01 Elise: At that time, no, but more recently... 10:03 and we're going to talk a little bit later about... 10:05 like the "body-image healing" 10:07 which very much has been separate 10:08 from the actual recovery of weight. 10:10 Jennifer: So you went from anorexia 10:12 to somewhere down the road... got into bulimia. 10:14 Elise: Yeah... right... well, before... 10:17 before I talk about that, I just want to share something 10:19 that I think was a "God thing" 10:21 so when you invited me to be on the Program, 10:25 and I was reading the list of all you guys, 10:27 I was like, "Oh...!" 10:29 I was excited because I knew all of you in some capacity 10:32 and you've all been a blessing to me 10:34 but Christina actually was part of my story of anorexia. 10:37 We were very close friends during that time 10:43 and I've got a picture of us together 10:45 when we were like, 12, I think, 10:47 so Christina watched that whole thing happen 10:51 well, part of what happened was, I was very isolated 10:54 and really just shut people out of my life, 10:57 so, 10:58 I was so sick that I wasn't aware 11:01 of how it impacted everybody else 11:03 and I realized, when I saw her name I was like, 11:06 "Whoa, we never really talked about everything. " 11:10 Jennifer: Let me just insert something really quickly here, 11:11 I had no idea that you too even knew each other 11:14 when I was setting up these programs 11:16 and I just randomly put you with her 11:18 and then this whole thing unfolded. 11:20 Elise: Yeah, and so I thought, 11:23 Man! I don't think we ever talked about that 11:26 and I think we were able to talk before... and just I was able... 11:29 I was just praying like, 11:31 "Lord, what should I... what should I do here?" 11:35 And I had been praying, a couple of months before, 11:37 like, "Please make me aware of the people that I've hurt... " 11:39 because I know there are people that... 11:41 we all hurt people unaware and we have blind spots 11:44 and so, I felt like I should ask Christina like, 11:47 "What was that experience for you?" 11:49 and, you know, I was just really grateful that she could share 11:53 and I realized, "Wow! I've hurt other people 11:56 and they didn't know why I distanced myself whatever... " 11:59 and she was super gracious and being understanding 12:02 but I think it's... one of the beautiful things 12:04 about sharing our stories is that God brings further healing 12:09 just in the process. 12:10 So, what was... tell us from your angle... 12:13 all of a sudden, you see her name on the Program 12:16 with you in the Program. 12:18 Well, it was definitely a shock and it was... 12:21 when I heard that she wanted to speak with me 12:25 before we even considered doing the show, 12:28 that was definitely scary... 12:30 but I'm very grateful to have that opportunity 12:34 because it allowed me to understand 12:36 that what had happened wasn't my fault... 12:38 it was actually something I had lived with 12:40 and thought that it was my fault... 12:42 what happened to Elise and so, to hear more about... 12:45 the intricacy... the intricacies of what had happened helped. 12:50 Jennifer: It's so cool how God literally validated 12:54 what we're saying here on this Program 12:56 by letting... just orchestrating this whole thing 13:00 so then, kind of moved into bulimia mode, what... 13:03 talk to us about that. 13:05 Right, so, I had strong recovery for five or six years 13:10 after anorexia and then I was in college, 13:13 I went through a really intense time with... 13:16 very dark picture of God, very performance based... 13:19 very legalistic... and I kind of cracked under the pressure 13:25 of trying to be perfect, 13:27 and that's when I developed bulimia 13:29 so, I don't do anything halfway 13:32 and that applies to bulimia too... 13:36 I quickly started having really out-of-control binge eating, 13:40 I would eat just 1,000s and 1,000s of calories at a time 13:43 and then vomit... 13:45 and... whereas anorexia was kind of like... 13:49 like you said at the beginning, you're proud of it... 13:52 even though I was... it's so messed up, 13:55 bulimia was more... just a lot of shame 13:57 and I had kind of like double and triple layers of shame 14:04 because I... I had gone to a Bible college 14:06 and I was... figuring out... considering myself a missionary 14:10 and I'm doing outreach and I knew the health message 14:14 so it was like, "What is wrong with me 14:15 that I can be acting out 14:17 when I had all this information. " 14:18 Jennifer: With the shame and the triggers, 14:22 were there certain environmental triggers 14:25 that made you feel more... like you said... 14:29 made you drift over to legalism 14:30 or, was it just, from within yourself? 14:33 Or was it both? 14:34 Elise: Yes, yeah, it was definitely both, 14:36 like, I... I had been 14:39 learning a lot about standards and the right way to live, 14:43 really awesome things that I can celebrate when I... 14:48 understand them in the right context 14:49 but I just had tremendous pressure on myself 14:52 to... like, be the perfect student 14:54 and to manage my emotions perfectly 14:56 like, I was going through a breakup and I thought, 14:58 "Well, because I feel like 15:00 God lead me away from this person, 15:01 I'm not allowed to be sad" 15:03 and so, I have to be happy all the time 15:05 and I have to exercise every day and just like 15:09 trying to be perfect and I kind of cracked 15:13 because I didn't feel a sense of love and acceptance 15:15 so, the bulimia was not an attempt to find love 15:20 but just giving up on the fact that I was able to find love 15:24 within Christianity 15:25 because I just couldn't keep up with, like, trying to perform. 15:28 Jennifer: So there seems to me 15:30 like there are two different kinds of eating disorders, 15:32 one is more spiritual... 15:33 sounds like you've got elements of that... 15:35 like, people just want to be righteous... kind of thing... 15:37 and then there's the body-oriented one 15:39 where you're very oriented towards seeing your body 15:42 and comparing it to standards and fashion, 15:44 did you kind of have both going on or...? 15:46 I mean, definitely through both eating disorders 15:50 there were the body-image issues 15:52 but I think they were also both very much driven 15:58 by spiritual and emotional needs, 16:01 so, I wanted to share a story that... 16:04 it just kind of highlights, 16:06 I think, the way that God reaches out to us 16:08 when we're in that place of darkness. 16:09 There's a picture here of my adopted grandma, Rita, 16:14 and she... really sweet lady who kind of adopted me 16:19 when I was in college 16:20 and I started binge eating at her house 16:23 and I would like, eat her food 16:25 and then I would go to the grocery store 16:27 and I'm trying to replace it 16:29 and I was just so ashamed about the whole thing 16:30 and I remember, one day, she was like, 16:33 "Is there a mouse in my kitchen?" 16:35 I was like... so embarrassed... 16:36 and I told her what was going on 16:38 and she said, "Sweetheart, are you eating regular meals, 16:43 are you sitting with people?" 16:45 and I just remember being like, so surprised 16:50 because I was coming at it from this angle of like, 16:53 "I'm bad... I'm doing the wrong thing... " 16:56 and she was just like, "Are you okay?" 16:59 Jennifer: You're not taking good enough care of yourself. 17:01 Elise: Right... 17:02 Jennifer: Like, you're not being good enough to yourself, 17:03 instead of needing to punish yourself, 17:05 you needed to be good to yourself. 17:06 Elise: Right, and usually, I think, 17:08 a lot of times when we're caught up in patterns of sin 17:10 and brokenness... like... 17:11 we think about it from this angle of 17:13 we think we're so sure about how God feels about us 17:16 and we're just so messed up 17:17 when He is coming at it from a different angle, like, 17:19 "I want them to be okay. " 17:21 I listened to a TED Talk recently called, 17:24 where "Everything you think you know about addiction is wrong. " 17:27 and in the closing statement... 17:29 Jennifer: For Love, care... for addiction... 17:30 Elise: Yeah, and I don't remember everything 17:32 they talked about but there were some beautiful points 17:33 and in the closing sentence, he said, 17:35 "For a hundred years we've been singing 17:36 war songs about addicts, 17:38 when really we should be singing them love songs... " 17:41 and it reminded me... because I still remember 17:44 there were like two times when I was purging 17:47 where I felt like... so ashamed and so sinful and just... 17:54 I'm like, "God must be so upset... " 17:56 where I had this distinct impression of Him 17:59 singing over me, 18:00 and like, these two moments of other songs... one said, 18:05 "When you're here, lowest of lows... 18:07 I want you to know, 18:08 I think more of you than what you could yourself... " 18:11 and just being just so caught off-guard 18:13 like, because that cycle of shame 18:17 that drives eating disorders and drives many addictions 18:20 is that... it just perpetuates the problem 18:23 and it's not from God. 18:24 All: Hmmm... hmmm... Jenny: Powerful... 18:26 Didn't you recently write a blog about shame? 18:30 Do you want to talk about that 18:32 or do you have more to say before we get to that point? 18:34 Sure, I would love to talk about that... 18:36 can we talk about body image? 18:38 Jennifer: Yes, let's talk about body image, yeah. 18:39 Elise: Okay, so, again, when I was asked to be on the Program, 18:44 I started thinking about, 18:45 "Well, I still have a lot of body insecurities... " 18:48 I mean, I still do... 18:49 but I think some... I always just like, thought, 18:52 "Well, I'm in God's work and it's not slowing me down 18:55 so, you know, just keep going 18:56 and if you feel bad about your body or whatever... " 18:58 and I thought, 18:59 "Well, maybe if God wants some more healing here... " 19:01 just in the last couple of months... 19:02 so I started praying about, like, 19:04 finding new ways to think about my body, 19:07 because I... you know... 19:09 everyone has insecurities about their bodies, like, 19:14 I'm pear-shaped and so there's some parts of my body 19:17 that I feel great about 19:19 and then there are others I don't feel so great about 19:21 and so, it was just kind of funny, like 19:24 God gave me a couple of different tools for body image 19:27 and I want to share because 19:28 probably more people can relate to that 19:30 than having an eating disorder, 19:32 so I realize, when I look in the mirror, 19:34 I automatically look at what I don't like, 19:37 and then I start to feel, like, shame about it 19:40 or just this negative self-talk so, I was like, 19:43 "I have to have a plan for what I'm missing instead. " 19:45 so, instead I started saying, like, 19:48 "Thank you God that I'm fearfully and wonderfully made, 19:51 like, I'm zooming out from this body part that isn't my favorite 19:54 and like, thinking that I have a body 19:56 and it's healthy and strong and it climbs mountains and... 20:01 thank you that I have thighs because if I didn't... like... 20:04 they connect my leg to the rest of my body... 20:07 it's this utilitarian thing... " 20:09 Jennifer: And if you had stick-thin thighs, 20:11 you'd have a lot harder time getting up those mountains. 20:14 Elise: Right, right, and then... 20:15 I was praying about... because I have this thing 20:18 where when I sit... you know, when you sit down... 20:20 you're legs squash down... so they feel bigger, 20:23 and I just... you have gotten used to, like, 20:26 "Yeah, when I sit down, I don't feel good about myself" 20:28 I was like, "that is so lame... 20:30 am I going to go the rest of my life, like, feeling insecure 20:33 when I sit down, of course, my legs are going to be bigger" 20:36 so, I was like, "God, how do I think about this?" 20:37 and then I thought... 20:39 it's because of gravity that my thigh is squishing down, 20:42 right, so I'm like, "Thank you, Jesus, for gravity," 20:45 it's like, if my thighs weren't squishing down, 20:47 we wouldn't be able to have this interview, 20:49 like, we would just be floating around out there... 20:52 right, and so, I love how God can make 20:55 something that feels so broken and shameful, like, actually, 20:58 just bring it into the light and like, 21:00 there can be humor and we can talk about it 21:03 and that doesn't mean that... 21:04 that's not my favorite part of my body 21:06 but it takes away some of the power. 21:08 Jennifer: Hmmm... amen... that's so... thankful for that. 21:11 Christina: Praise has really been a way of coping with this, 21:14 praising God for what you do like 21:16 as opposed to focusing on what you don't like. 21:19 Jennifer: And even praising God for what you don't like 21:21 and reframing it... looking at it through a different lens. 21:23 you know like, 21:24 "I'd be floating around if it wasn't for those thighs 21:27 that I think I don't like... " 21:29 that's great reframing, I think, 21:30 because you're looking at it from a different angle. 21:32 Elise: Yeah, and I... I... 21:34 something about being on national television 21:36 is motivating so... hopefully this work will continue 21:39 because I certainly don't feel like an expert. 21:41 Shelly: I have a question about the treatment that you got 21:44 when you had to go in-patient... 21:45 just from my experience of working with 21:48 eating-disorders clients, 21:50 I've learned that there's like seven tenets or a team approach, 21:58 what was a part of your team? 22:00 Because, obviously, "faith" played a huge part in it 22:02 which helps our thoughts and our cognitions incredibly... 22:06 research has shown that that's a huge part of it 22:09 if it's incorporated... not just in secular therapy 22:12 but bringing "faith" into it, 22:15 but what were the other tenets that were in your team? 22:18 Elise: I don't think I had an ideal situation, 22:22 I did counseling and saw a dietitian briefly 22:25 and then I... because my weight was stabilized 22:29 and I was in school it just stopped 22:30 but definitely having a team approach is really important... 22:34 and I think eating-disorder recovery 22:38 has come a really long way, like, one of the doctors I had 22:40 first time, he was like, 22:42 "You don't love God and you don't love your family... 22:44 or else you wouldn't be doing this... so... " 22:46 Jennifer: Oh great... more shame... 22:47 Elise: Yeah, and back to the shame thing... 22:49 I feel like... a common thread in anorexia and bulimia 22:54 and many other things we struggle with, is shame... 22:58 and recently I was able to share a message on "shame" 23:01 and if anyone wants to hear it, it's called: 23:03 "When Jesus put shame to shame... " 23:05 so you can just Google it, 23:06 but what the Lord really impressed me was 23:08 we have two types of shame we deal with as humans, 23:12 "silly shame and sinful shame" 23:15 so "silly shame" is like, the things we feel insecure about, 23:19 my thighs or my position or my salary... 23:23 or things we know shouldn't matter 23:25 but we still feel a lot of shame over it, 23:27 and then "sinful shame" is like, 23:29 the shame that results from our sins 23:31 and knowing that we're broken 23:33 and God made me think about, it's Hebrews... something... 23:38 "Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith... " 23:42 it says, "who for the joy set before him... " 23:45 okay, so the "joy set before Him... " 23:47 that's the solution to the "silly shame," right, 23:50 because all these... all these things we have to do to... 23:53 the things we have to do to build an identity... 23:55 we're forgetting that we're His joy... 23:59 no matter what we look like or no matter how we perform... 24:01 we're His joy... 24:03 and then it says, "He endured the cross, 24:05 despising the shame... " 24:07 and that really speaks to the "sinful shame" 24:11 because He... in taking our shame on Himself... 24:15 Jesus said, in this really beautiful way... 24:19 He would rather put Himself to shame than put us to shame, 24:24 so the way He wants to relate to us 24:26 in our "every form of shame" 24:29 is just the most loving, 24:31 beautiful way we could ever imagine... 24:33 kind of like the way that Rita spoke to me. 24:36 Jennifer: You're the story of freedom, I love it. 24:39 Paul: You know as you're thinking about 24:40 God's brought you out of anorexia 24:42 which is a very deadly disease, 24:43 I think, Jennifer, you said, one out of ten... 24:45 Jennifer: One out of ten die, 24:47 it's the most terminal of psychological disorders. 24:49 Paul: Yeah, and then He's brought you out of bulimia... 24:52 so you're really a walking miracle... 24:54 in the fact that He's restored you 24:55 and I'm just curious, with that... 24:58 and teaching you how to praise Him 25:00 and to reframe things, 25:01 how do you see this flowing out, 25:02 what difference has that made 25:04 for the healing that God's brought you 25:05 you're still in a journey... we're all still in a journey... 25:07 and I'm just wondering, 25:09 "How has that made a difference in your life... 25:10 that you're really a walking miracle for Him? 25:13 Elise: Hmmm... I think it's good to remember 25:16 because I used to watch "Testimony Shows" 25:18 and I'm like, "And now that person has everything together" 25:20 and then, you get asked to be on a Program 25:23 and you're like, "Oh, but I'm not one of those people 25:25 that has everything together... " 25:26 Jennifer: We really want to clarify, on this Program, 25:29 that that's not what we're saying here, 25:30 we're saying, "You're on the road... 25:32 but everybody is a work in progress. " 25:34 Elise: Still, I think, to put it in a nutshell, 25:37 one of my favorite quotes says, 25:39 "The glory of God is man fully alive... " 25:43 and I have seen and felt and experienced 25:47 like, the thief coming to steal and kill and destroy me 25:50 and yet God infusing me with... with life 25:54 and helping me be more fully alive 25:56 so I believe His goal for me 25:58 is to make me feel more fully alive 26:00 and so when I'm struggling with other things, which I am... 26:03 and do... just being able to come back to that framework 26:06 is like, "I can trust Him... " 26:08 like, it's a work of healing 26:09 and that that freedom that I want... it comes from Him. 26:13 Jennifer: Amen... 26:14 Paul: You can go back to that track record 26:15 of remembering what He's been doing for you. 26:17 Elise: Yeah. 26:18 Jennifer: Wow! Love that. 26:20 Well, any closing words, we have, maybe, 30 seconds... 26:23 what would you say to someone who's struggling with shame 26:27 and the various manifestations? 26:29 Paul: Self-harm and... Jennifer: Yeah... 26:31 Elise: I think... for me... just like 26:35 imagine yourself being hugged in the brokenness... 26:40 imagine the most beautiful song being sung over you 26:46 and just knowing that we have that kind of God 26:49 that His love is so unconditional 26:53 and so... all encompassing... 26:56 and being able to... to know and feel that 26:59 is really the only thing that can help. 27:02 Christina: So finding security in His love, 27:05 that's what you're saying. 27:06 Shelly: Praise God. Christina: Amen. 27:08 Jennifer: Amen... Christina: Praise God. 27:10 Jennifer: You know, we are just all so incredibly broken, 27:13 every single one of us 27:14 and yet, in the depths of our shame, 27:17 God rejoices over us with singing... 27:19 not in some sadistic way but because He sees the future 27:22 and He sees the path out of that shame 27:25 and He knows His ability to restore us 27:27 and He also knows that He will restore us 27:30 and so, if you're someone 27:31 who has struggled with eating disorders, 27:33 if you're someone who's struggled with 27:34 one of the various manifestations of shame, 27:37 we want you to know that it's not over yet 27:39 and that God... you're story continues 27:41 and that the God of heaven is looking down on you and saying, 27:45 "I see the potential here, 27:47 I see this person complete in Christ, 27:49 even though, right now, they're in a broken state, 27:51 I can see them complete in Christ... " 27:52 and He bids us to allow Him fully into our lives 27:56 so that we can experience that healing day by day... 27:59 moment by moment... |
Revised 2017-08-14