Participants: Jennifer Jill Schwirzer Robert Davidson (Host), Christina Cecotto, David Guerrero, Dr. Jean Wright
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC000010A
|
00:27 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:29 So glad you came to our program today. 00:32 We are devoted to helping us all 00:35 better understand mental health, 00:37 psychological issues from a biblical standpoint. 00:39 And also to present to you viable practical solutions 00:44 for some of the most perplexing problems of life. 00:47 I'm sitting here with my treatment team today, 00:49 and I want to introduce them one by one to you. 00:52 First we have David Guerrero, he is from Wisconsin 00:55 and he runs a wonderful ministry 00:57 called Rekindle the Flame, it's a very inspiring title. 01:00 And under that ministry 01:02 he functions in a number of capacities, 01:05 he's really taken very seriously 01:07 the admonition to develop ourselves, 01:10 that's we're told our first duty to God and man 01:12 is self development, Ellen White said that. 01:14 And you've taken that very seriously 01:16 and you have developed competencies 01:18 and coaching, pastoring, 01:20 counseling and now you are getting your doctoral 01:24 in naturopathy, is that right? 01:26 Yeah, that's correct. 01:27 So he is a very thoroughly rounded person. 01:29 You also teach coaching and write books 01:33 and presents seminars, you're crazy man, you. 01:35 But he says that he does well with time managements, 01:38 so I'm gonna trust him on that one. 01:39 Okay. 01:40 I also appreciate the fact that we have Christina Cecotto here. 01:44 She's from Georgia and she is a licensed... 01:49 Why do I blank on this? Masters in... 01:51 Masters in social work, 01:53 there's all these letters sometimes... 01:54 MSW, right? That what they say? 01:55 LMSW. 01:57 LMSW and she is from Georgia, 02:00 and she works at Wildwood Lifestyle Center. 02:03 And she likes to help people through anxiety, 02:06 mood disorders and phobias 02:08 and she offers a lot in regard to lifestyle remedies 02:11 that seem to help people with mental health issues. 02:14 We also have Dr. Jean Wright. 02:16 Dr. Jean is from my hometown of Philadelphia, 02:18 he goes to my home church 02:20 and he's my home boy as they say. 02:23 And he is an amazing guy with a lot of talent 02:26 and a lot of capability. 02:28 He works for the... 02:31 He is the director of 02:33 Behavioral Health and Justice Services 02:35 in the Department of Behavioral Health 02:37 in Philadelphia. 02:38 And I can't believe I remember that one 02:40 and he also has a book out, 02:43 what's the name of the book again? 02:44 "Find Strength in Your Struggle." 02:46 "Find Strength in Your Struggle, 02:48 " I love that title 02:49 and you're shopping that book around 02:51 a lot doing some book signings 02:52 and some speaking engagements as well. 02:54 Absolutely. 02:55 After on the side... Yes. 02:57 Yeah, we need to talk to him about time management too 02:59 and on the side Dr. Jean likes to work 03:01 with community forgiveness and restoration, 03:04 working with the prisons... Yes. 03:05 And he has done a lot of really interesting things 03:07 in the community in that regard, 03:08 hopefully that will come up in the course of the program. 03:11 And also have my co-host here Rob Davidson, 03:15 Rob has a private practice in counseling 03:17 with Abide Counseling Network, 03:19 and he likes to help a variety of presentations 03:22 including individuals, families, couples, 03:25 he likes to help men develop servant leaderships skills 03:28 and biblical manhood and integrity, 03:31 so that is so needed in our world today 03:33 and I'm so thankful that you are here to share with us 03:36 and help direct this program. 03:38 I want to talk about our topic today, 03:40 our topic is Conflict. 03:42 Conflict is a big one, isn't it? 03:43 Yes. 03:44 So a definition of conflict would be a serious disagreement 03:47 or argument. 03:48 The prevalence of conflict would be that 03:51 it is pandemic everywhere, 03:53 we have sinful human beings, we have conflict, don't we? 03:56 In fact sometimes those conflicts escalate 03:59 into what are called anthropogenic disasters, 04:02 did you know that's the technical term for a war? 04:05 An anthropogenic disaster 04:07 and just to mention one statistic, 04:10 World War II alone, 75 million people killed. 04:14 Now that's what I called conflict. 04:16 But realize that all of those conflicts 04:18 begin with emotional conflicts 04:23 and breakdowns in communication 04:25 and arguments between individuals 04:27 and then they escalate and fan out 04:29 into those anthropogenic disasters. 04:32 So I would say that the cause by and large 04:35 is poor listening. 04:37 People don't generally listen, 04:40 they typically want to advance their own agenda, 04:43 their own view, their own rights, 04:44 their own righteousness in many cases, 04:48 but they don't often listen to the other person 04:50 and take in their subjective standpoint. 04:53 We see in James 1:19 it says, 04:56 "Let every man be quick to hear, 04:58 slow to speak, and slow to wrath." 05:00 What we find is that people are generally quick to speak 05:04 and slow to hear and so they are quick to what? 05:06 Become angry. 05:08 Wrath, they're quick to escalate and typically, 05:10 if we can learn to change that around, 05:12 we can learn how to deescalate... 05:14 Is this why God gave us the two ears and the one mouth. 05:16 And one mouth, that's right. It's just a thought. 05:18 It's true, it's the symbol of what God wants 05:21 is to be really big on listening 05:22 and kind of slow on speaking. 05:24 That's powerful. 05:25 The prognosis though is always positive, right, 05:28 because Jesus heals. 05:30 People can learn how to listen 05:32 and they can learn how to resolve conflicts. 05:35 So some of the methods of resolving conflict 05:37 would be simply meeting with the person 05:40 with whom you have a conflict 05:42 and in the Spirit of Christ like love pray 05:44 and talk through the issue, we don't typically do that. 05:48 When we have a disagreement, 05:49 there is some psychological tension 05:51 that builds up and we need to release that tension. 05:54 Often we release it with another person, 05:56 instead of going to the source of the tension 05:59 and trying to release it in the context 06:01 of that disagreement with that person 06:03 and bring it to a productive conclusion 06:05 instead of a destructive conclusion 06:07 which is gossiping and backbiting 06:09 is what it often devolves into. 06:12 Now I'm not saying that in every case, 06:13 if there has been abuse and someone with 06:16 much more power has exploited a person of much less power, 06:20 I do not recommend if that person 06:22 goes directly back to the abuser 06:24 for a second helping. 06:26 I recommend that they find an advocate 06:27 and that it is resolved through advocacy, 06:30 but in most cases it's adult on adult 06:32 or brothers and sisters and we can go directly 06:34 to the source of that conflict and we can work it 06:36 through in a spirit of Christ like love. 06:38 But sometimes it's gotten beyond that point 06:40 and that's where an advocate comes in 06:43 and I'm always throwing up my hands 06:45 and saying who advocate, who will be that third person 06:48 in the conversation that will help mediate, 06:50 and that often needs to be a professional counselor, 06:53 in my experience someone who is like 06:55 literally designated in their career 06:58 to helping people through these things. 06:59 So some of the things I like to use in a counseling context 07:02 is the ear technique, E-A-R empathy 07:06 and communication is all about establishing empathy 07:09 with one another. 07:10 Empathy equals ask and reflect, 07:13 you ask questions of that person to draw them out, 07:17 that means not defensive questions like 07:19 how long have you been this stupid 07:20 or something like that. 07:21 But sincere questions, wanting to know more 07:25 about that person's subjective experience, 07:27 and also reflecting back to them 07:29 what you heard them say, and making sure that 07:31 you got it right. 07:33 And we're gonna talk more about that 07:34 I'm sure in the course of this conversation, 07:36 but also I want to bring out that the FBI uses something 07:39 called the Behavioral Change Stairway Model. 07:42 Have you guys heard of this? 07:44 So when there is a hostage situation 07:46 and someone who is trained and then the FBI goes 07:49 to deescalate that hostage situation, 07:51 they use this Behavioral Change Stairway Model 07:53 which begins with no surprise here active listening, 07:57 and on the foundation of that active listening, 08:00 they develop empathy with that person 08:02 and then on the foundation of that empathy, 08:04 they develop rapport 08:06 and on the foundation of that rapport, 08:08 they develop influence over that person 08:10 and finally when the influence is established 08:13 they get ask for behavior change, 08:14 put your gun down, come out of the hotel room, 08:17 let the people go or whatever it happens to be. 08:19 If this is used by the FBI 08:21 to deescalate hostage situations, 08:24 how much more can we use active listening and empathy 08:27 and rapport to deescalate our own conflicts. 08:30 Can I get an amen from you on that? 08:33 Amen. Amen. 08:34 Okay guys, so what have you used that has helped 08:36 in your efforts to help deescalate your own conflicts 08:39 and resolve conflict used with other people, with clients? 08:42 One thing I think that's important, Jennifer, 08:44 and I know we'll probably talk about a lot of methods 08:49 and tools that people can use in conflict, 08:53 but in today's world the reason why people can't come together 08:57 and resolve their conflict is time. 09:00 We live in a world where people are not taking the time 09:03 to listen, the time to speak. 09:05 And so one thing that I try to do 09:08 when I'm counseling a couple is I will ask the question, 09:10 how much time are you spending together 09:11 to resolve these issues? 09:13 And usually what I hear is, "Well, we don't have..." 09:17 Time. Time. 09:19 We are too busy. We're too busy. 09:21 I'm working, I'm taking care of the kids 09:23 and so what I try to help them to see that 09:25 if there's an issue, and it's just laying there 09:29 and they're just letting it lay there 09:31 and it's just laying there, 09:33 what's happening to each individual, 09:34 the emotions are building 09:37 and they're not resolving their conflict, 09:39 and then the conflict will take care of them, 09:40 because one day it's going to do what? 09:42 It's gonna explode... Explode. 09:44 Yeah. 09:45 So I believe helping individuals 09:47 to see the importance of spending that time together, 09:50 to come together to resolve the issue 09:51 is critical, it's crucial. 09:52 You are saying that people can't really 09:55 in the close relationship, 09:57 people can't really avoid conflict. 09:59 For instance, in the marriage you can't really avoid it 10:02 and so you are saying make it priority, 10:04 it's more important than the food you eat almost. 10:06 Yeah. Yeah. 10:08 I think that's important because 10:09 one of the things I try to do is take the emphasis 10:12 of a negative definition of conflict is. 10:15 Conflict just means a disagreement, 10:16 it means you have an opinion and I have an opinion. 10:18 I love that. 10:19 And so, if we can start there with removing 10:22 that negative connotation... Amen. 10:24 And say let's talk about our difference of opinion, 10:27 you know, that kind of softens it a little bit 10:28 and we can move forward. 10:30 It's kind of like the word confrontation. 10:31 You know, confrontation just means in the here and now, 10:34 not waiting two weeks to tell me 10:35 what I did wrong, okay. 10:37 Let's talk about what the disagreement is now 10:39 and so the conflict is actually, 10:41 it's an energy thing, it allows things to change. 10:45 A conflict allows things to change. 10:46 I love that. 10:47 So you are normalizing and really redeeming conflict. 10:50 You are not like dreading and catastrophizing, 10:52 you're saying this is a good thing, 10:54 and we can use it right, it's gonna link 10:56 to good answers, it's great. 10:57 It's a positive energy to cause change. 10:58 That's beautiful. Yeah. 11:00 And now I can relax myself and I think about, you know, 11:02 the negative part of. 11:03 So can we see it as an opportunity, 11:04 conflict is an opportunity. 11:06 It is an opportunity. Yes. 11:07 And as the Christian, 11:09 it's an opportunity to invite Christ... 11:10 Yes. Amen. 11:11 Into experience and let Him help us. 11:14 See this is why I have a team, 11:15 I feel like, and if I was up here, 11:16 I probably just be catastrophizing conflict 11:18 to telling people what a problem it was 11:19 and how to fix it. 11:21 But, you know, you are right. 11:22 It can be a problem. Yeah, I know. 11:24 Let's approach it as if it is just a disagreement. 11:26 That's right. It's an opportunity. 11:27 I love that. It's an opportunity. 11:28 This I exactly how I approach a couple 11:30 when they first come in. 11:31 I start exactly where you started there 11:33 and I really flush that out, I take my time 11:35 because they never see conflict as something positive. 11:37 Right. But I say, you know what? 11:40 If we don't have conflict, we don't get to know each other 11:42 at our core, but through conflict 11:44 we can not only get to know each other 11:46 but in the conflict itself, if it's done right 11:49 and we can teach them in the right way, 11:50 we can bond closer together. 11:52 Yes. I love that. 11:53 And then I take it to another level, 11:55 I say look at the great controversy 11:56 that we are in today. 11:58 Look at the... 11:59 In fact if we really study Revelation, 12:01 God will be closer to us in closer bonded 12:04 as Jesus is with his scars forever 12:06 because of the conflict that happened. 12:08 That's right. 12:09 But we are learning to do this conflict 12:11 together correctly. 12:12 Yes. 12:13 And so and it just puts a new perspective. 12:15 You are saying that God redeems conflict? 12:17 Oh, absolutely. 12:19 To great ends and to great good. 12:21 In my experience when people never have conflict 12:24 for instance in a marriage, one person is completely 12:27 losing their individuality to the other. 12:30 And so conflict really shows 12:34 that there are two individuals there 12:35 and that is a positive. 12:37 Yeah, a relationship without conflict 12:39 is one without energy. 12:40 Yes. That's right. 12:42 Yes. 12:43 And I think there is research from what I've read, 12:44 there is research that the couples that do the best, 12:47 that have the healthiest relationships 12:48 are the ones that do escalate but they know 12:50 when to back out of an escalation, 12:52 then no one is getting too hot versus the couples 12:55 that never escalate really are usually kind of, 12:57 but they're stonewalling or they're detached 12:59 or something has gone wrong in the relationship. 13:01 So we can help the couple see that's in conflict 13:04 or the individual to see that, you know, 13:06 that we're all created in God's image 13:09 and God wants to restore us into His image and in conflict, 13:15 God is trying to come in, He's asking us to invite Him 13:18 into the experience, 13:20 so He can help us to become more like Him. 13:21 Right. 13:23 Love that, love that. 13:24 One of the things that I will do 13:25 when I have a couple come in 13:27 and many times it's only one individual 13:28 while their husband and wife is at home, 13:30 when they're in the lifestyle program 13:32 is really try to get them to be connected, 13:34 redevelop their relationship with Christ 13:36 or have a deeper connection with Christ 13:38 because if I can just read this real quick 13:40 and then I'll explain more about it. 13:41 It says, "The heart filled with that love, 13:43 which thinketh no evil will not be on the watch 13:47 to notice discourtesies and grievances 13:49 of which he may be the object. 13:51 The will of God is that His love shall close the eyes, 13:54 the ears and heart 13:57 to all such provocations and to all the suggestions 13:59 with which Satan would fill them." 14:02 So if you notice the key here, 14:04 it's when they are filled with the love of Christ, 14:08 then they won't notice every little thing 14:10 because I think the conflict can sometimes be... 14:13 Exacerbated by little triggers that you could just overlook. 14:16 Love covers the multitude of sins. 14:18 Now it is necessary sometimes to, 14:20 of course to address things and not to have 14:22 all being avoided which many of us are 14:25 and so it is important to address things, 14:26 but if we're filled with that right spirit, 14:28 with the love of Jesus Christ and we're gonna have 14:30 the right spirit to be able to address those issues 14:33 that are needed to be addressed. 14:35 Christina, I love that so much. 14:36 She's gonna bring out a really good text. 14:38 I'm not gonna take the time to read all this 14:40 but what I will say to couple is before you decide 14:43 to talk about something, before we get into the head, 14:47 I want you to take the time to look at Colossians 3. 14:49 And just look at, I say the whole chapter 14:52 but it's particularly verses 12 through, it looks like 17. 14:58 Oh, my goodness that just softens the spirit, 15:00 I can almost see it on their faces 15:01 when we take the time to read that. 15:03 Oh, can you read just a little bit of it? 15:04 Oh, sure. Yeah. 15:06 "Therefore as the elect of God, holy and beloved, 15:08 put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, 15:11 meekness, longsuffering, bearing with one another, 15:14 and forgiving one another, 15:15 if anyone has a complaint against another, 15:18 even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. 15:21 But above all these things put on love, 15:23 which is the bond of perfection. 15:25 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, 15:27 to which also you were called in one body and be thankful 15:30 and let the word of Christ dwell 15:34 in you richly in all wisdom, 15:36 teaching and admonishing one another in psalms 15:38 and hymns and spiritual songs, 15:39 singing with grace in your hearts and on and..." 15:42 Just hearing that, I feel my heart softened 15:45 toward people that I have conflict with. 15:46 Amen. 15:48 I'm just being honest. Amen. 15:49 Yeah, it's the spirit working before we actually get it to. 15:52 And I think to that, you know, one needs to, 15:55 what I tell people is that when they experience a conflict 15:58 that they might need to take a little time out. 16:01 And they might need to go away, pray, 16:03 be on their knees and spend time with God 16:05 until they have that, the spirit of God, 16:07 until they are, have the Lord's love in their heart 16:10 and then they can go out and address it 16:12 in the right spirit. 16:14 So it does take some time, it doesn't mean that 16:16 we have to address it right when it happens, 16:17 it does sometimes take, sometime to be able to do that. 16:21 And listening is key because the verse started put on 16:24 and some of the questions that we get from people, well, 16:26 how do I put that on, just what she just explain 16:28 how to do it. 16:29 Come aside, pray, 16:30 ask for the baptism of the Holy Spirit 16:32 and filling God's spirit, so I can put that on 16:34 and then I could come out 16:35 and ready equipped by the spirit, yeah. 16:37 Be with Jesus, day by day, moment by moment, 16:39 we can't do anything right without Him. 16:41 I think another key is to 16:43 understand your intension with trying to resolve a conflict. 16:48 What is your intension and especially with couples, 16:49 is your intension to win the argument, 16:52 you know, what is your intension? 16:54 You know, with love and mercy, 16:56 your intension should be to resolve our love 16:59 and resolve our commitment to one another. 17:01 Amen. 17:02 And to understand the other's heart 17:04 rather than to justify ourselves. 17:05 Save the relationship. Yeah. 17:07 And you say something in another program about, 17:08 you know, defending ourselves and we just take 20 minutes 17:11 to just be quiet and listen 17:12 to what the other person has said and not respond, 17:14 there is no need for self defense 17:16 if I'm in this with you. 17:18 And so what is my intension? Yeah. 17:19 You know, it shouldn't be to win. 17:21 Yeah. 17:22 It should be for us to move forward. 17:24 That's beautiful. 17:25 Oh, boy, that's like an arrow to my heart. 17:27 Real quick, just real quick, Jennifer, 17:29 'cause this is a powerful point, 17:31 when I'm counseling couples, 17:32 when I'm doing marriage coaching, 17:34 one thing that is key and it seems to help is I say, 17:37 let's look at, let's focus on counseling the marriage, 17:40 let's focus on coaching the marriage, 17:42 and it takes... 17:44 Two. 17:46 Takes two and it takes their eyes off each other 17:47 and on to the marriage, 17:49 what we have to do to fix that marriage? 17:50 And that's beautiful. 17:52 I like that, yeah. That's good. 17:53 Very quickly I'm gonna do this presenting problem. 17:56 It says here in their 60s, upper middle class and Hispanic 17:59 Mr. and Mrs. Fernando reporting longstanding conflict 18:02 with their ex best friends which are actually 18:05 Mrs. Fernando's sister and husband the Acostas. 18:07 The couples came to the area 20 years before 18:11 to plant a church in order to reach 18:13 the Hispanic population in the city. 18:15 All went well until the church voted Mr. Fernando 18:17 into the position of lay pastor of the church 18:20 because the same honor was not extended to Mr. Acosta, 18:23 he wrestled with her feelings. 18:25 As you chat with Mr. Fernando, you sense that 18:28 his approach to the situation could have been more sensitive 18:31 and gracious in a very delicate situation. 18:34 Mrs. Fernando is quite for most of the session, 18:37 how do you proceed? 18:39 I just want to say some real quick 18:40 and that is that these presenting problems, 18:42 you know, resemble to some of the things 18:44 that I've worked with, 18:46 and this particular couple hadn't spoken 18:50 to the other couple for 12 years. 18:52 Wow. 18:54 And of course, using the reflective listening 18:56 but also praying for the Holy Spirit 18:58 for over several days, the ice finally broke 19:01 and this couple just they loved each other really 19:04 and all this conflict that piled up, 19:06 that was just so gratifying for me to see that breakthrough 19:10 and that they sat down together, 19:11 start chatting like old friends, 19:13 it was just so meaningful. 19:14 Shows you how powerful heart feelings can be. 19:16 Yes. Oh, my goodness. 19:18 Yes. Yeah. 19:19 And the feelings, oh, my goodness, 19:21 you know before we can resolve any conflict, 19:23 we have to hear each other's feelings 19:25 and you talked about this in the beginning 19:28 and we talked in another program 19:29 about the listener speaker technique. 19:31 This is very powerful in terms of hearing each other's 19:33 feelings with I statements, 19:35 because if we can hear each other, 19:37 we don't have to agree but we're hearing 19:40 or validating that the other person's feelings 19:42 are real to them 19:44 and then this softens the mood before we even attempt 19:47 to get into resolving the conflict, 19:49 we have to hear one another. 19:50 So what happened here was Mr. Fernando got the position 19:55 and Mr. Acosta didn't and there was, 19:57 it was a delicate situation, 19:58 it was a difficult situation right there, 19:59 but Mr. Fernando's insensitivity to that 20:02 and Mr. Acosta's inability to just admit, 20:06 my feelings are wounded, I'm feeling, you know, 20:08 hurt really compounded the situation very quickly, 20:11 so what is it about actually putting your feelings 20:14 into words that is so helpful 20:17 because people do communicate their feelings 20:20 whether they put them into words or not. 20:22 Here you see communicated by, I'm not talking to you, 20:25 you know, stonewalling, you know, 20:27 what is it about putting him into words, just help me... 20:29 We'll start with I statements. Yeah. 20:32 You know, and sometimes when you start... 20:34 What is it about an I statement though? 20:35 'Cause I'm owning and I'm accountable for bad feeling. 20:37 Exactly, exactly. 20:38 When I seems like obvious... 20:40 Yeah. 20:41 But not, I mean, maybe the person may think oh, 20:42 it's obvious that they know how I feel. 20:45 I don't really need to say anything 20:46 but in fact nobody knows... 20:48 Right. That's right. 20:49 And so it's actually very important to say that 20:51 but I do want to say there is a balance of course, 20:53 we are not to be subdued to our, 20:55 our emotions are not to be in control of us 20:57 but we are to root out on holding emotions. 20:59 Yeah. 21:00 And so we do need to identify emotions 21:02 so that they can be better though, 21:04 and they can be resolved. 21:05 But if I'm in a situation like this 21:06 and I'm genuinely wounded 21:08 and maybe by lack of maturity but it's not gonna help for me 21:12 to go, oh, I shouldn't feel that way, 21:14 so I'm just gonna pretend I don't. 21:16 There comes an integrity issue, you are who you are 21:19 and in the situation like this, I think 21:21 it would have been appropriate for Mr. Acosta to say, 21:24 you know what? 21:25 It hurts, it hurts maybe because I'm not grown up yet 21:28 but it hurts, and I just want to be honest about that. 21:30 I think that would be a lot better than I shouldn't, 21:33 you know, because that's only gonna stifle it 21:35 and then he's gonna show it another way. 21:38 And these are not just friends, these are family members. 21:41 This is like a really close relationship. 21:42 And this is Fernando, this, you know... 21:43 I don't go up to the mailman and say, 21:45 "You know how I feel today mailman 21:46 but my close friends, they need... 21:48 There is a relationship here. Exactly. 21:49 Okay, and the silence by Mrs. Fernando tells me 21:52 she was quietly supporting her husband. 21:53 Yeah. 21:54 But maybe didn't agree with how he handled it. 21:56 Right. 21:57 And when you look at this, yeah, why couldn't Mr. Acosta 21:59 say to a friend or family member... 22:00 Yeah. 22:02 You know, I worked as hard and I feel badly 22:05 that I wasn't recognized. 22:06 Yeah. My hard work wasn't recognized. 22:08 Yeah. 22:09 Mr. Fernando knows they did it together. 22:11 Yeah. 22:12 Mr. Acosta knows they did it together. 22:14 That's right. 22:15 But that's where they split out. 22:16 It needed to be talk about. 22:18 And I think our role as therapist is to be able 22:19 to identify those emotions so that we can help them 22:23 root out those unholy emotions, 22:25 that's when they can be in harmony with the... 22:27 So suppression isn't what we're going for? 22:29 No, no. 22:31 We are getting for, we're going for the... 22:32 If they're there, they are there, 22:33 if so if they're suppressed, they are still there. 22:35 So really confessing a sin really when they admit that 22:38 they are having these unholy emotions 22:39 and we can't get pass our sins unless we confess them. 22:42 And are we also helping them to identify those feelings 22:46 and to maintain them because that's very important. 22:49 You know, I have question for you and it's this. 22:52 How you were able to get them to come together? 22:54 Yeah. 22:55 Well, I actually went to where they lived 22:56 and spent several days with them 22:59 and it was just a little kind of a long drown out thing 23:01 but it really, it really was key just spending that time. 23:06 They set aside, you know, the chunk of days 23:09 with me to work through 'cause they knew that 23:12 they needed the help so, yeah. 23:14 And that is so important and we were taking about that 23:16 earlier and as our audience is listening, 23:20 I would encourage them, if they are having conflict 23:23 to take the time, to come together, 23:25 to resolve the issues and if they can't do it 23:27 on their own to find competent counselor 23:30 or therapist to help them to work through this. 23:31 And, you know, and it didn't like 23:33 I had made a list, they both made their grievance lists 23:36 and as we worked through, 23:38 it didn't look like it's gonna resolve, 23:39 there was one individual that he got so wounded that 23:42 it just didn't seem like it was gonna change 23:44 and so I told them, you know, you may have, 23:47 one of you may have to move away, we probably 23:49 not gonna get through all this items on the list 23:51 but all of the sudden, the Holy Spirit came out, 23:54 I really can't explain it and there was just this 23:56 softening that came, this influence it came 23:59 and the one that I thought was gonna hold out 24:01 actually said no, you know, 24:03 I was wrong took even though I got hurt. 24:04 I was wrong in the way I handle it. 24:06 And from that point forward, it just, 24:08 like the flood gates of heaven, I'm serious like opened up, 24:11 and all of a sudden this healing wave came in 24:14 and they were within a couple of hours 24:16 talking like old friends, it was truly remarkable. 24:18 Amen, amen. 24:19 Do you all find as Christian counselors 24:21 that sometimes we wonder what in the role did we do? 24:23 And all of the sudden the Holy Spirit is doing 24:25 something that, we just, we just see that 24:27 it's not really us but somehow the spirit is in the session. 24:30 Yes, He is the great counselor. That's right. 24:32 Yes, yes and we need to always invite him 24:34 into our counseling sessions, the Holy Spirit. 24:36 Absolutely. 24:37 Amen, I know I'm helpless without Him, 24:40 I would wreck people and I know that as a counselor 24:43 so I pray with my clients, you know, 24:46 and I tell them I need God, this is why I want to pray, 24:49 you know, this is too much for me. 24:50 How important is it for us to be so abiding with Christ 24:54 to ourselves so in tune. 24:56 That's right. That's right. 24:57 Amen. Yeah, shall I recap? 24:59 Yeah, go ahead. 25:00 Okay, so you started out talking about the EAR 25:04 which is love is empathy, ask, reflecting back 25:07 and even the FBI uses this to deescalate situations. 25:10 They don't use EAR that's 25:12 I wrote but the FBI uses reflective listening. 25:15 Reflective listening. Yeah. 25:16 So that's something... 25:18 That will be cool if FBI use something 25:19 that I wrote but, you know, not yet. 25:21 So we can model that for our clients 25:23 the reflective listening and the whole bit. 25:26 I really like what you said, David, 25:27 about life is so busy that we're not taking time 25:30 to resolve our conflicts. 25:32 We just need to learn to take the time. 25:34 We talked about that. 25:35 And I love what you said, Jean, about conflict 25:39 is not a negative thing, 25:41 it doesn't have to be negative thing. 25:43 We can normalize conflict because so many couples 25:46 just hate the conflict itself but yet, 25:50 if we can put a new face on it and say that 25:53 this actually can be for our good, 25:55 if we learn how to do this the right way. 25:56 See that as an opportunity. 25:58 Absolutely. Yeah. 25:59 It can be a bonding experience... 26:01 It means people care. Yeah. 26:03 And also through the bonding we can actually learn 26:05 to know one another on a deeper level 26:08 more so than we knew each other before. 26:10 We talked about getting our spirits 26:13 not only as counselors but the couples 26:15 or whoever going through conflict 26:16 in a right spirit using scripture, 26:18 using prayer to soften the spirit. 26:21 We talked about what is our intension, 26:23 what are we thinking in conflict, 26:25 are we just in this to win? 26:28 And if we are, then we shouldn't be in a big rush 26:30 to win, we need to slow down. 26:32 I statements were talked about. 26:34 I statements are wonderful ways to get to the emotions 26:38 that each of us are feeling. 26:40 I'm feeling such and such because such and such, 26:43 and then how can we not validate 26:46 the other person's feelings. 26:48 We don't have to agree with those feelings 26:49 but those feelings are real, 26:50 so I statements are important to learn. 26:52 Emotions are critical when we want to move 26:56 towards conflict resolution, we have to do that. 27:00 Our role is to help identify those emotions as counselors. 27:04 A lot of times those emotions are just so mixed up 27:06 in the conflict that it's just a big jumble. 27:10 And then we talked lastly spending that time, 27:12 spending time to come together, letting the Holy Spirit work. 27:17 Someone said that it is better to remain silent 27:19 and be thoughtful than to speak up 27:21 and remove all doubts. 27:23 The Proverb says something similar, Proverbs 17:28, 27:27 even if the fool is thought wise, he keeps... 27:31 "Even the fool is thought wise if he keep silent, 27:34 and discerning if he holds his tongue." 27:37 I think we all agree that we need to learn 27:38 better listening skills and we've tried to help you 27:40 do that in this program of A Multitude of Counselors. 27:46 We're gonna be talking in future programs about anger, 27:49 about communication, so please join us again. 27:51 We so appreciate your support, and pray for us 27:54 as we work through some of life's 27:56 most perplexing problems in the faith 27:59 and strength of Jesus. |
Revised 2016-11-17