Participants: Mike and Gayle Tucker
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000089B
00:01 We're back.
00:02 We are talking about some really big issues
00:05 that are destroying marriages today.
00:07 We've already talked about pornography and an affair.
00:12 Lets talks today about addictions.
00:15 We're talking here primarily about
00:16 drug and alcoholic addiction,
00:18 the different types of addictions.
00:19 But those are the main things that we want to discuss today.
00:23 This again,
00:25 is a detrimental effect upon marriages because actually,
00:28 alcoholics divorce at four times the rate of those
00:30 who are not alcoholics.
00:33 And there seems to be direct co-relation between
00:35 the amount of alcohol you consume
00:37 and your likelihood of divorce.
00:39 Even if you're not an alcoholic,
00:42 if you just drink socially,
00:43 there's a direct correlation between
00:45 alcohol consumed and likelihood of divorce.
00:47 It is not interesting,
00:49 even when it's not an alcoholic?
00:50 Yeah, the more you drink
00:51 the more likely you are to be divorced.
00:53 Well, and I think we talk about actual addiction,
00:56 we're talking about a situation where it's hard to be
00:59 in a relationship with that person.
01:01 Marriage to an alcoholic or an addict
01:03 is not a truly a marriage.
01:04 No, its not.
01:06 And the reason
01:07 that I would say that is because
01:09 this person will make choices that will not make any sense.
01:12 They will choice the drug of the choice
01:14 over the marriage every time,
01:16 they'll choose it over their children,
01:18 over their Job,
01:20 over thing that makes absolutely no sense.
01:23 But that's because this has such a strong hold on them,
01:26 you know.
01:28 And so it's very hard to be in a relationship with a person
01:30 whose judgment is so impaired.
01:33 The drug of choice becomes more important than the marriage.
01:36 It becomes more important than their own health,
01:38 it becomes more important than their relationship to God.
01:40 It is the most important thing in the world to them.
01:43 And you can't be in a marriage with someone
01:45 who has that kind of priority set.
01:47 It's very difficult.
01:49 And that doesn't mean that the addict
01:51 or the alcoholic is a bad person.
01:53 No, not at all.
01:54 It doesn't mean that they are unloved by God,
01:56 it doesn't mean any of that.
01:57 What does it mean is,
01:59 it shows how strong a hold this can help on an individual.
02:02 That's right.
02:03 You know, Satan gets hold of people
02:05 in a lot of different ways,
02:06 this happens to be the way
02:08 that he is able to grasp that particular person.
02:11 And there is a lot of hard ache
02:13 they goes through this experience,
02:15 not just for the person married to the addict or the alcoholic,
02:19 but to the children
02:20 and for the addict and the alcoholic themselves.
02:22 Themselves. Yeah, that is destructive.
02:24 Now, there are some stages
02:26 that usually takes place in the life of a family,
02:28 someone whose married to an alcoholic or an addict.
02:31 Let me share what these.
02:32 The first stage is usually denial.
02:33 Oh, he just drink too much at the Christmas party,
02:35 he won't do it again.
02:36 But when he or she does again and again
02:38 then there are attempts to eliminate the problem,
02:41 usually by begging, by threatening, by cajoling.
02:44 But when those fail,
02:46 and you see that problem persist
02:47 then the family usually falls into disorganization and chaos.
02:51 Children begin to act out,
02:53 the relationship itself starts to fall apart, there's this...
02:56 So the family is just a disaster at that point?
02:58 And absolute disaster.
03:00 Then there's a reorganization
03:01 in spite of the addiction or the alcoholism.
03:05 So the alcoholism still exists.
03:08 It still exists.
03:09 But they reorganize around it?
03:11 There's a reorganization,
03:12 but it's an unhealthy reorganization.
03:15 Usually, around form of love we call co-dependency,
03:17 which is a rescuing and being rescued form,
03:20 its a very sick form of love,
03:22 but I've never worked with the spouse
03:25 of an addict of an alcoholic
03:27 who was not a co-dependent.
03:30 Never once. And I've done...
03:32 Is just the nature of the beast, isn't it?
03:33 I've done drug and alcohol rehab
03:35 in psychiatrist facilities as a Chaplin,
03:38 never once seen anyone married to an alcoholic or an addict
03:40 who was not co-dependent.
03:42 Well, you are trying to fix,
03:43 and you are we trying to rescue them,
03:44 you're trying to make it better,
03:46 and they want that, and they come back to it,
03:49 but then they self-destruct again.
03:52 And then you're back, rescuing again.
03:54 Becomes an ugly recycled that repeats itself.
03:57 And then, you began to feel your worth by being rescued
04:00 and the person rescuing feels loving
04:03 because they are rescuing.
04:04 Because they are rescuing. They are rescuing.
04:06 But eventually, once you rescued
04:07 and you're nurturing this person is been rescued,
04:09 feels suffocated by it,
04:11 and so they sabotage the relationship again,
04:14 and spiral once again by using,
04:16 and again they are rescued over and over again.
04:18 It's an exhausting kind of thing.
04:20 It's exhausting; it's a sick way of loving.
04:22 And both people become sick through the process.
04:25 Then, eventually, when that no longer works and eventually,
04:29 even that sick reorganization no longer has an effect,
04:33 there's an attempt to escape.
04:35 The person married to the alcoholic or the addict
04:38 just got to get out.
04:39 And eventually, then there is family reorganization
04:42 usually without the alcoholic or the addict,
04:44 because the divorce will occur unless,
04:47 the alcoholic or the addict gets sober and clean
04:50 and then the family can reorganize around sobriety.
04:54 And that we would really hope for the people.
04:58 Now those are typical stages, you know,
05:01 the stages may be a little bit different
05:03 from one family to another
05:04 but that's pretty typical.
05:05 You can see that over and over again.
05:08 And you know, if indeed
05:10 you find yourself in this situation,
05:11 the first thing to do is to admit it.
05:13 That is the first step of every 12 Step program.
05:16 "I got a problem."
05:17 And 12 Step program has been around a long time,
05:19 they've had a lot of success.
05:20 But the very first thing is to say,
05:22 yes, this is going on.
05:25 Admit that it's happening, admit that you are the addict,
05:27 you are the alcoholic, and then get help,
05:30 be willing to get help.
05:31 There are lots of agencies they can help, you know,
05:33 Alcoholics Anonymous, Al-Anon/Alateen.
05:36 There is a Christian recovery program
05:38 called Celebrate Recovery, that many Churches conduct.
05:41 12 Step program also
05:43 for narcotics and Narcotics Anonymous (NA).
05:45 So it is another related to AAA.
05:49 And so but recovery I think talks about
05:50 all kinds of addiction,
05:52 so that's one, you know, that might be helpful,
05:54 you can find some times the local church is doing that.
05:57 AA and NA started out
05:59 as purely Christian programs
06:01 and they've been more secularized through the years,
06:03 they're still a valuable program and valuable aid.
06:07 But Celebrate Recovery is on a bashley Christian
06:10 and it is a very successful program.
06:12 And then refuse to keep the secretes, you know,
06:15 once you uncover those,
06:16 they don't have as much power over you.
06:19 You get in this unhealthy kind of situation
06:21 where everybody is trying to cover it up,
06:23 it's not been really happening.
06:24 Uncover those secrets,
06:26 let them out there and deal with them,
06:28 because they don't hold the power over you
06:30 when you uncover them.
06:32 You're not having to like word any word,
06:33 doesn't have any power.
06:35 It breaks the power
06:36 and it makes recovery a possibility.
06:38 And it helps you realize you are only one
06:40 that's ever experience this.
06:42 You'll find the many, many people
06:44 have come through it, they had the same problem.
06:47 Again, the alcoholic, the addict,
06:49 this is not a bad person.
06:51 This is a broken person.
06:53 Everyone we're talking about
06:54 with this big issues are broken people.
06:56 They are not terrible people,
06:57 these are the people for whom Christ died.
06:58 That's right.
07:00 People who loved by him.
07:01 And He is standing there,
07:02 waiting and willing to help with this.
07:04 So I don't think we say, all right,
07:06 go to a program and that your whole solution.
07:09 You go to a program with God's help,
07:11 with him right there besides you,
07:13 walking through every moment with you.
07:15 And with all of the 12 Step program
07:17 there's this spiritual component
07:18 and that's how makes them successful.
07:20 That's why they succeed.
07:21 That's it, the spiritual compounded is key.
07:23 There's one more issue that we need to talk about,
07:26 and again, it's one of those that
07:28 no one likes to talk about.
07:30 And the churches especially
07:31 doesn't like to talk about this.
07:33 We hate to admit that it exists in the church.
07:35 Yeah, it's just shameful that it doesn't exist.
07:37 We hate to admit it but it does exist.
07:40 And this one is called Spousal Abuse.
07:43 We need to talk about abuse
07:44 because its going on in every segment of the society
07:48 and the church is no exceptions.
07:50 No exceptions.
07:51 We've heard a lot about it in the news
07:52 in the last couple of years,
07:54 really, with professional athletes
07:57 and things like that,
07:58 some of the stars in Hollywood that you hear of
08:00 that have Spousal Abuse situation.
08:02 And you know, isn't it nice
08:04 that the sporting organizations,
08:07 the professional organizations are now taking
08:10 very proactive steps regarding this
08:12 and saying, by the way,
08:13 if you're convicted of spousal abusive,
08:15 there are penalties from your work over this.
08:19 You know, may be the motivation for this
08:21 is public pressure and money.
08:23 And may be it's not just that they are good people doing this
08:27 but at least they are doing it.
08:29 And may be they are almost leading
08:33 the rest of the society at times in this.
08:35 We need to take this proactive stands
08:36 or even more so in the church.
08:38 We do.
08:40 And I think one of the things
08:41 that we need to do is to understand it.
08:42 Yeah. What is spousal abuse?
08:44 Well, it has such a wide range that sometimes
08:47 we don't acknowledge what's going on.
08:50 It starts on one end if we continuum,
08:53 down at this lower end of the continuum
08:56 it may be just cruel remarks,
08:59 it may be jokes that the spouse experience,
09:02 but then it continues on
09:03 and it goes to isolation
09:06 where you try to isolate that person
09:08 from family and friends,
09:10 you know, keep them in a box.
09:12 It goes to financial imprisonment
09:14 where they can't really get out of this situation
09:16 because they can't afford it,
09:17 they can't manage, they don't have any resources.
09:21 It goes on,
09:22 there's great emotional abuse with verbal abuse,
09:26 it can go then to the physical abuse.
09:29 When you get all the way,
09:30 and there are still many more steps,
09:31 when you get all the way to the other end,
09:33 it's actually homicide.
09:35 So when you realize that this, it's abuse all the way through,
09:40 we got to be able to acknowledge
09:42 and recognize that it's going on.
09:43 And no one wants to recognize that.
09:46 If you are abuser,
09:47 you don't want to be recognize it,
09:48 if you are the one being abused,
09:50 you don't want to recognize it, because if you are abusive,
09:52 you don't want to recognize that you are hurting
09:55 the people you love the most.
09:58 And if you are the victim, you don't want to admit
10:01 that you are some weak little victim,
10:03 as I've heard them call themselves,
10:04 "I can't take care of myself."
10:06 Well, that's exactly what one woman said me.
10:08 She says, "I'm not a some weak little thing
10:10 that can't take care of myself."
10:11 And yet, she showed every sign of abuse.
10:15 In her case, it wasn't physical abuse
10:16 so you couldn't see a black eyes or a bruise.
10:19 It was emotional abuse that was so bad
10:22 that it was stressing her entire life.
10:24 It's important to recognize
10:26 that abuse is not just about violence.
10:28 The key of the abuse is the power and control.
10:32 Any relationship that is based on power and control
10:35 rather than love and partnership
10:37 is by definition an abusive relationship.
10:40 And that's not just marriage relationship, it's friendship,
10:43 it's work relationship, church relationship,
10:47 entire congregation can be abusive.
10:49 Because, if they're based on power and control,
10:52 I'm going to control the minutiae of your life
10:55 and I'm going to enforce this
10:57 rather than just uplift Christ and say,
10:59 there's a better way to live, if I'm enforcing it,
11:01 if it is about power and control
11:03 it becomes abusive by nature.
11:05 Well, in a marriage relationship
11:07 there are some red flag statements
11:09 that you hear from time to time.
11:10 There are things like, well, if you'd behave better,
11:13 I wouldn't have to treat you this way.
11:16 And that's said over and over
11:18 and the sad thing is people start believing it.
11:21 They start to believe that must be true of me,
11:23 I'm causing this by my baby behavior.
11:27 Oh, I don't deserve anything better than this.
11:30 And you're told that you don't deserve anything better.
11:31 In fact, another of the red flag statement says,
11:35 "If I didn't keep you around, no one would ever want you.
11:38 You're just lucky that I even let you live here."
11:41 "If I got rid on you, you would be out on the street
11:44 because there is no one that would want you."
11:47 And it seems so outlandish and yet, people believe it.
11:52 The victim begins to believe that about themselves.
11:57 Those are the red flags.
11:58 And I think that if indeed you find yourself in this situation
12:02 and you're the one who is been victimize,
12:04 the first step is to admit it.
12:07 And like you said,
12:08 it seems like that would be easy to admit
12:10 and obvious, but it is not.
12:11 It's not.
12:12 You don't want to be seen as a victim
12:14 and don't want to be seen
12:15 if you are the abuser as abusing the people.
12:18 You, basically as the abuser lost
12:20 the power of compassion.
12:22 You lost the ability to have compassion on your spouse
12:25 or on another person.
12:26 Or even on yourselves.
12:29 And an abuser, again, is not a bad person,
12:30 but this is a person who's lost touch with their core values.
12:34 And by losing that touch
12:37 and by losing the ability
12:38 to have compassion for themselves and others
12:40 they engage and behave
12:41 as they never thought possible for them to engage in.
12:43 And so the first step is to admit it,
12:45 the second step may be to get some help.
12:47 Get help.
12:48 Yeah, there is help available.
12:50 You know, they are hotlines that you can call.
12:54 You can Google and find...
12:55 A National hotline or local hot line.
12:59 Be willing to do that,
13:00 it's very hard, it is very hard.
13:03 It's something that people,
13:04 they feel like they have failed
13:06 or they feel they are afraid.
13:09 You may need a safety plain if you are in a physical...
13:10 physically abusive situation.
13:12 Having the safety plan can be key.
13:13 And I think that there's also a work
13:15 that friends and churches can do here.
13:18 That's right.
13:19 And that is by helping people safe,
13:22 recognize when abuse takes place.
13:24 Open our eyes.
13:25 Open our eyes
13:26 and help develop safety plans for someone,
13:28 be a resource for them
13:30 so that they don't have--
13:31 the bottom line is it's not God's plan
13:33 for you to live that way.
13:35 You are not a more spiritual person
13:36 because you allow someone to beat you up
13:38 or to degrade you, or to belittle you.
13:41 God has a better plan.
13:43 Because, this, the abuser has abrogated their marriage vows,
13:48 they have failed to keep those vows
13:50 and it's placed you and your children at risk.
13:52 We need to help.
13:53 Those are few of the big issues.
13:55 The key is let's deal with them
13:56 because you need to be madly in love with one another.