Participants: Mike and Gayle Tucker
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000086B
00:01 Welcome back.
00:02 We're talking about raising children
00:04 and how that affects their marriage.
00:06 And we've mentioned that it's important to start
00:08 with the end goal in mind.
00:10 If we are in survival mode
00:13 that's a prescription for disaster.
00:15 It is and it puts stress on your marriage.
00:17 But to have a big plan is going to be helpful for us.
00:20 We have to have the end goal in mind.
00:22 I think we have to decide ahead of time,
00:25 what our goals are,
00:27 what our discipline style is going to be,
00:30 what our style of parenting is going to be.
00:32 Now that will vary as the years go by
00:35 and as you get more experience with it,
00:37 but I think it's important to say, all right,
00:40 here's what we really want for our children,
00:42 and here's how we're going to get there.
00:45 You need to decide is your discipline going to be,
00:48 you know, are you going to use corporal punishment.
00:51 Are you going to use time out?
00:52 Are you going to use... What are you going to use?
00:54 How is that going to be...
00:55 Or you're just going to scream frantically.
00:58 And if you don't have a plan that's what you will do.
01:00 That's what you'd do. Yeah.
01:02 So when you have a plan.
01:04 I think the thing that is helpful with that as well
01:07 in terms of the marriage,
01:08 is that you both are on the same page.
01:12 You've decided together
01:13 how you're going to handle things
01:15 and then even if you happen to be separated at the moment
01:18 one of you is dealing with the situation,
01:20 you already have the foundational principles
01:22 that you're going to use.
01:23 This is the way we deal with our children
01:26 and this is the way we handle things
01:27 and then you're not going to create conflict
01:29 with the other parent,
01:30 because you did something that they didn't like.
01:32 Plus, you don't create confusion in your children.
01:34 That's right.
01:36 It was always helpful for me
01:37 to know that you and I had a plan we were on the same team
01:40 and if we were apart from each other and the children
01:42 and, you know, our children
01:44 unlike any other child in the world, I'm sure,
01:46 because they try to play one of us against the other.
01:49 And no other child on the face of the planet
01:51 has ever done that,
01:52 but we had a habit
01:54 and that is that they came and asked us for something
01:55 and we were apart from one another,
01:57 we would always ask the question,
01:59 "Did you ask your mother? Or did you ask your father?"
02:01 Did you ask daddy?
02:02 You know and what did daddy say?
02:04 What did mom say?
02:05 And it frustrated the children,
02:06 but it also let them know that we were a team
02:09 and that kept the conflict down between us,
02:12 and it also gave the children a sense of solidarity
02:14 because mom and dad are working together in this.
02:16 That's right.
02:18 It's always helpful. Yeah.
02:19 And, you know, basically what your rules are
02:21 what you're approach is and so if you stay with that approach,
02:26 it keeps the children better off
02:28 and it keeps you on the same page.
02:30 I think it's also important for us to not assume
02:32 that we already know everything about parenting.
02:35 The most obnoxious experts on children
02:38 are those who don't have any.
02:40 Is like the story of this child psychiatrist
02:43 who started his career was
02:44 six theories of raising children
02:46 and he ended his career having raised six children
02:49 and they had no more theories.
02:50 That's right. Yeah.
02:52 A theory is wonderful, until you try to put into practice.
02:56 The truth is though...
02:58 Don't assume that you know what is right to do,
03:01 it's better to check with people who really are experts
03:04 who've done the research who know.
03:06 That means read some books.
03:08 There are so many resources out there
03:10 and we thought we'd mention a few, you know,
03:13 James Dobson's Dare to Discipline.
03:15 It's an oldie but goodie.
03:16 It's an oldie but goodie
03:17 it's been updated a few years ago,
03:19 he has some very solid principles.
03:23 Kevin Layman... Yeah.
03:25 "Have a New Kid by Friday."
03:26 It's a newer book, it's a good book.
03:28 "Have a New Kid by Friday," Isn't that a great thing.
03:30 And he just reduces parenting to simple things, you know,
03:33 just simple ways to do this and it's solid material.
03:37 Ron Flowers book, Rare Kids Well Done,
03:41 is another more recent book, it's excellent.
03:43 And Claudio and Pamela Consuegra
03:45 have created resources,
03:47 a video resource and titled, Help, I'm a parent.
03:51 It's hard to find a more apt description
03:53 or a more apt title, I think.
03:55 And I think that's, that's a good one
03:57 because it is a video resource.
03:59 It's something you can sit down you can pop it in and watch it.
04:02 You and I were a part of that resource as well.
04:05 We were on camera for some of that is as well.
04:07 So we know that there are resources out there,
04:09 it's important not to just think,
04:10 well, I already know what I need to know.
04:12 But to raise them in the same way
04:14 my parents raised me.
04:15 That may be good and it may not be good.
04:17 And even if it is good, it may not agree
04:19 with what your spouse wants to do so,
04:21 you've got to make these decisions together.
04:23 Check it out together, find what the experts say
04:26 and then come up with a plan based on that.
04:28 So keeping your own relationships strong,
04:31 setting goals for what you want to do,
04:34 being willing to reach out
04:35 and have resources is also important
04:37 and then maintaining just romance
04:40 in your own relationships.
04:41 That's going to be key.
04:42 To know that it is the foundational part
04:45 of your family.
04:47 But to keep the joy in it
04:49 because there are romantic times
04:51 that you still need even though you have kids,
04:53 keep it as a priority.
04:55 And that's just basic principles
04:56 for raising children.
04:58 Dobson talks about the fact that healthy children are found
05:03 they are produced by a relationship with parents
05:06 that begins with warmth and then add structure.
05:10 Warmth first, structure later and so if the children
05:14 first and foremost know that they are loved and accepted.
05:17 That they are the treasure that the apple of mom and dad's eye,
05:23 then when we add structure,
05:24 as we add the rules
05:26 they grow out of that experience of warmth
05:29 and it's harder to produce rebellion,
05:30 not impossible but harder to produce rebellion.
05:34 If the rules or as few as possible,
05:36 well chosen and consistently enforced,
05:38 but they grow out of warmth,
05:40 then you're going to have a much more
05:42 pleasant experience with the children.
05:43 Well, I think we've talked a little bit
05:45 about two different types of leadership,
05:48 two different types of parenting
05:50 and I think it would be helpful to talk about it again here,
05:52 because it fits so well with our children.
05:55 Well, the one style that a lot of people resort to
05:59 is authoritarian.
06:02 Authoritarian, it starts with command and control.
06:05 It's I give the rules, I give the orders
06:07 and when I say jump on the way up,
06:09 you ask how high.
06:10 So a lot of shouting of orders and it's tends to be cold,
06:14 but it tends to be forced discipline and forced structure
06:19 and it starts with structure and command and control.
06:22 The problem is that control itself
06:25 is one of the elements of abuse.
06:27 Power and control are abuse of the elements
06:29 and so authoritarian leadership in the home
06:33 almost always produces rebellion.
06:36 But parents are the authority in the house, right?
06:38 So how does that work if we're not to be authoritarian?
06:41 Well, there is a second model.
06:43 Okay. And that is authoritative.
06:45 And this is more of the model of leadership of Jesus.
06:48 It begins with warmth and adds structure.
06:52 It's important to have the structure.
06:54 We're not saying throw away the rules.
06:56 That's ridiculous, that's also a prescription for disaster.
06:59 Some people have warmth and nothing else.
07:01 But it starts with warmth and then add structure
07:04 in the midst of that warmth.
07:06 So when the children know, daddy, first of all loves me
07:11 and he cares for me, therefore,
07:13 he has rules and daddy adds structure
07:15 but the structure is for my protection.
07:18 We tried to never add a rule to our children
07:21 that we didn't have an explanation for.
07:24 The explanation because I said so,
07:27 is usually not strong enough,
07:28 especially as the child gets older.
07:30 It seems forced and it seems arbitrary and it seems angry,
07:34 but if indeed I have a reason for this,
07:36 well this is for your protection.
07:38 This is what I know is the possible result of this
07:40 or this is about a choice.
07:42 Your mother and I have made this choice
07:45 and this is the reason we made the choice.
07:47 This is what we encourage for you to do the same thing
07:50 because the result has been good for us.
07:52 So when you're in our houses this is the choice we make
07:55 because this is who we are,
07:56 eventually you make your own decision on this,
07:58 but this is what we've chosen now and this is why.
08:01 So it starts with warmth and then add structure.
08:05 You know, I had an experience with our grand daughter
08:07 just a couple days ago.
08:08 She's learning.
08:10 You know, she's only four and she is learning to obey
08:14 and to follow directions and follow rules
08:16 and she was reaching for something and I said, no,
08:20 and she kept reaching, you know,
08:22 and went ahead and did whatever it was.
08:25 So we had to stop and have a conversation
08:27 about that and to explain to her why?
08:31 Why is this important that you obey right at the moment
08:34 that you've been asked to obey.
08:36 And so I told her a little story.
08:39 But I think it's those moments that you are just teaching
08:44 as you go along in life, you know,
08:45 you're not shouting rules screaming yelling.
08:48 You're saying here's what we need to do, and here's why?
08:52 Finding those teachable moments.
08:54 She was, you know, I told her if,
08:56 if I can't trust you to obey me at the moment when I say it,
09:01 then I can't protect you
09:04 because then you might be in danger
09:06 and but you haven't learned to obey the moment
09:09 you've been asked to obey.
09:11 And then you might step into danger
09:13 because you didn't listen.
09:15 So those kinds of things where they understand why,
09:20 and yet they're still learning the lesson.
09:22 Teaching those lessons is a proactive approach
09:25 because it sets a personal identity
09:27 and a corporate identity as a family.
09:30 We always try to tell our children,
09:32 this is how we do it in our household.
09:34 You're a part of the Tucker family
09:35 and the Tucker's do it this way.
09:37 This is why we do it this way.
09:39 And then when we would see
09:41 someone making a different choice,
09:42 maybe with a disastrous result,
09:45 we would look at the children say
09:46 we're so proud of you
09:47 because you've decided to do things our way,
09:50 we do things this way because Jesus feels like
09:52 this is a better way and we see the results are much better.
09:55 So I'm proud of you, for making those choices
09:57 and when we continue to rehearse that
10:00 with the children they would gain an idea
10:02 of who they are, they gather a personal identity.
10:06 It was tied up with Jesus, following Jesus,
10:08 it was tied up with their identity
10:09 with the family, as of Tucker's this is how we do things.
10:13 This is a part of what our team is like and this is what we do.
10:17 And so it became a teachable moment.
10:18 I know some of those moments came for you
10:20 at the kitchen sink with your mother.
10:21 They did.
10:23 I've often said that I could write a book called,
10:25 "Lessons from the kitchen sink,"
10:26 you know, because I remember so many times standing there
10:30 with my mom and we're you know,
10:31 we're scrubbing potatoes or we're washing dishes
10:35 or whatever it happened to be.
10:37 And she would just talk to me and we would talk about
10:41 so many different things.
10:42 I remember her teaching me to sing the song
10:44 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow',
10:46 while we're standing at the sink.
10:47 I also remember asking her about what it would be like
10:50 when Jesus came and her talking about all the things
10:53 that would happen at the time that Jesus came
10:57 and I could just picture it, you know,
10:59 that was the moment there
11:01 when I remember having a calling on my life
11:03 to be in ministry, because we were talking about,
11:07 Mary, the mother of Jesus, and how special she was
11:11 and how she listened to God's voice
11:14 and he just spoke to me at that moment and said,
11:17 "I have something special for you to do as well."
11:21 And so you know there are those moments you don't know
11:25 what moment is going to stick in your child's mind.
11:27 No free passes, are there? There are no free passes.
11:30 Sometimes, we think, oh, they won't remember this.
11:32 But the other thing that we do is we create a special event
11:36 or something or a moment that we think
11:39 is a teachable moment and we make it very special
11:43 and later on you figure out they didn't even remember it.
11:45 They don't remember it.
11:46 But they remember some little tiny thing over here
11:48 that you never had in your mind at all.
11:51 You thought it was just nothing.
11:54 Yeah and yet they learned a basic life lesson from that.
11:56 I think a part of one of the final things
11:59 we can share with parents
12:00 is don't be afraid to be the parent.
12:01 You know, that's one of the things
12:03 that we share with young parents a lot.
12:06 There is so much information out there.
12:09 There are so many psychological principles
12:12 and so much on the Internet and everything.
12:15 There's information being thrust at parents.
12:18 It's overload.
12:19 It is overload it's at a rate they cannot even comprehend
12:23 and most of it ends up with the feeling of
12:27 I can't possibly do this.
12:28 Inadequacy. Inadequacy.
12:30 They feel overwhelmed.
12:32 And they feel like they're going to damage their children
12:35 because, they've read so many things
12:37 that they're supposed to do
12:38 and they can't possibly do all of them.
12:40 That now my child is going to end up
12:42 like you said in therapy.
12:44 In therapy.
12:45 You know, in fact, I have some nephews
12:47 that tease their mom's and say,
12:48 "Well, this is going to be years of therapy
12:49 over this one you know."
12:51 So they've they feel that way and it paralyzes parents.
12:56 It does. So we need to not be paralyzed.
12:58 You are the parent you are the authority
13:01 and you want to be an authority in an authoritative manner...
13:05 Rather than authoritarian. Not authoritarian.
13:07 But don't be afraid to parent.
13:09 Set the guidelines, stay with them,
13:13 make sure that you guide your child
13:16 and they're not the one in control.
13:17 One of the ways you can do that
13:19 is by giving your child lots of choices.
13:21 You know, sometimes there are choices you can give them,
13:24 when they're real little, they can start making choices
13:27 and it's important to allow them to do that.
13:30 But you need to make those choices within boundaries
13:34 that you are comfortable with.
13:36 In other words, you don't say to your little toddler,
13:39 "Do you want to eat a sandwich?
13:41 Because, typically they will say, "No."
13:44 But if you want them to eat a sandwich you ask them,
13:47 "Do you want a peanut butter sandwich
13:49 or cheese sandwich?"
13:52 That's right. You know.
13:53 And don't forget that Jesus is a part of this
13:55 and he can help you stay madly in love forever.