Participants: Mike and Gayle Tucker
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000081B
00:01 We're back.
00:03 We've been talking about mottos for marriage
00:05 and we're talking about choosing
00:07 as the first category of these mottos.
00:10 And the motto that we were talking about
00:12 just before we left for the break was,
00:15 it's a partnership, we're in this together.
00:17 We've talked about the business plan
00:19 that successful businesses have.
00:21 They kind of set a corporate identity,
00:23 do they not?
00:24 They do, and I think that's good for us as a family,
00:26 you know, to know our identity.
00:28 Who we are? Where we're going?
00:31 What drives us? How are we going to get there?
00:35 I think all of those things are things
00:37 that we can actually sit down and decide.
00:39 And then we can articulate them.
00:41 You know, this is something that happen in my family.
00:45 My dad used to articulate the identity in this family.
00:48 You know, this is what we do.
00:50 This is who we are.
00:51 And I never really thought about that
00:53 because it was so much a part of our culture,
00:56 you know, he just talked about whom we were,
00:59 you know, my maiden name was Whittaker.
01:02 And, well, the Whittakers do this
01:04 and the Whittakers believe that.
01:05 And I grew up being just a part of that identity
01:09 and this is what we do, this is the way we behave
01:12 because we're part of this family.
01:15 So, I think it's important for all families to do that,
01:17 to have an identity.
01:19 What is, what are our goals? What are we accomplishing?
01:22 How are we blessing the people around us?
01:25 How are we going to behave?
01:27 How will people see us because we are the Tuckers,
01:30 or because we are the Smiths or we are the whoever?
01:33 And as the Tuckers, what is our corporate identify.
01:37 Therefore, every decision we make,
01:39 every choice we make
01:40 is based upon the ultimate goal.
01:43 As the corporate identify is this,
01:46 what do we do to get there.
01:47 If the corporate identity
01:49 as we discussed before the break
01:50 is to make the ultimate driving machine,
01:53 then everything goes
01:55 into making that ultimate driving machine.
01:57 It doesn't mean that the engineers are now at war
01:59 against the frontline employees who are assembling.
02:02 They are not at war against the management
02:05 or against the adverting people or the sales people.
02:08 We are a corporation
02:10 and our job is to create the ultimate driving machine.
02:13 As Tuckers, we are not at war against each other.
02:15 I'm not war against you,
02:17 I'm not in competition against our children.
02:19 We are a corporate unit accomplishing the goal
02:23 of proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ,
02:25 establishing His love in our family,
02:27 demonstrating that love to the world.
02:29 That's a part of our corporate identity.
02:30 Yeah, and I think the second part of the saying,
02:33 we're in it together.
02:35 I think that also reminds us
02:37 that we have to have a heart for one another.
02:40 We have to have a heart of compassion
02:41 toward one another.
02:43 Compassion is a tremendously powerful part of a relationship
02:48 because compassion says, I understand who you are,
02:52 I understand where you're coming from,
02:54 I see when you hurt, I identify with you.
02:59 And how can I be in partnership with you
03:01 if I don't really understand you
03:02 and I don't open my heart enough
03:04 to see who you are and what's going on.
03:06 Compassion is, is a word
03:09 that someone define for me not long ago
03:11 and their definition was your pain in my heart.
03:16 That's awesome. I love that.
03:17 You know, it's just a simple down-home definition
03:20 but it's your pain in my heart, that means,
03:22 I'm going to really see you, I'm going to know who you are
03:26 and when something hurts you, I'm going to understand that,
03:29 I'm going to feel that pain and have compassion for you.
03:32 Part of God's self proclamation is to His personal identity
03:35 in Exodus 33 and 34 was that He was compassionate,
03:38 slow to anger.
03:40 But being compassionate means that He says,
03:42 "Your pain in my heart."
03:44 Our pain is in the heart of God.
03:46 And so, He models this role of compassion,
03:49 that compassionate leader,
03:50 the compassionate head of our church family
03:53 and of me, Mike Tucker, follower of Jesus Christ.
03:58 He has compassion for me.
04:00 And I'm to take that compassion that is given to me,
04:03 my pain in God's heart
04:05 and extend that to you as my wife
04:07 and to my children, and then extend it more broadly
04:11 to people in the church, people in our neighborhood,
04:13 to the world, your pain in my heart,
04:16 the compassion of Christ for others.
04:18 The compassion.
04:19 You know, Steven Stosny talks about this.
04:23 He has a foundation called Compassion Power.
04:27 And he really talks about the power that we have
04:31 in this little thing called compassion.
04:34 Compassion allows me to not abuse people
04:39 because I understand who they are.
04:40 Abusers he says have lost the ability
04:43 to have compassion toward another individual.
04:46 And toward themselves. And toward themselves.
04:48 They've lost touch with their core values
04:50 and they abuse the very people that they love the most.
04:53 So, when we practice compassion and as Jesus Christ did,
04:58 then we begin to understand the other person,
05:02 and we are less likely to ever want to hurt that person.
05:06 What Stosny and others teach also is that when we submit,
05:09 what we submit
05:11 is the compassion of our spouse.
05:14 We submit to their compassion for us,
05:16 their ability to identify with us to see,
05:19 to have our pain in their heart.
05:21 We submit to that compassion.
05:22 And that's a safe place to submit,
05:24 that's why we submit to in God
05:25 is that I have compassion for you,
05:27 therefore God is ultimately safe for me to submit to.
05:30 Ultimately safe. Yes.
05:31 So, if we're going to be in a partnership,
05:33 we're going to be in this together.
05:35 And I know that you have compassion for me,
05:38 I'm gonna be drawn into that much more
05:40 because I know, I'll be safe there
05:42 and you will be safe with me.
05:44 It's a partnership.
05:46 Again, I want to get back to this idea of compassion.
05:50 I think that this is something
05:51 that not only do we need is a family
05:55 but as a church.
05:57 The church needs to be seen as the centre of compassion.
05:59 Compassion draws people.
06:01 We talked about the aunt who is always right.
06:05 Being right did not draw people to her.
06:09 In fact, you had to make--
06:10 You had to decide to love her
06:11 because she was not easy to love.
06:13 Being right doesn't make you loving.
06:15 Sometimes the church focuses more on being right.
06:17 It's always good to be right.
06:19 I'm not suggesting anything else.
06:20 We know we want straight sound doctrine,
06:23 but even more important than have straight sound doctrine
06:26 is having compassion
06:28 which is the love of God for others.
06:30 And if we're seen as a place of compassion,
06:33 then people will care what we're right about.
06:35 And you know, we saw that with that aunt.
06:39 Because there were times when, you know,
06:40 when you can kind of past the exterior with her
06:44 and really begin to ask her, how are you doing?
06:47 Yes. How are things with you?
06:49 And when she would really begin to open up,
06:51 then I found that there was a place of connection there
06:55 and when she was dying,
06:58 I talked to her on the phone when she first had a stroke.
07:01 And I begin to hear from her, she started to ask me questions
07:06 about what do you think God thinks about me.
07:09 And would you sing with me, and she began to sing
07:11 "Lead me gently home, Father."
07:13 And so, you know,
07:15 just reaching out to her in compassion
07:18 began to soften her and draw her in.
07:21 Compassion draws the other person,
07:23 it draws us to each other.
07:25 If I want to be the leader in my home,
07:27 I must first demonstrate compassion
07:28 and if I do, my children follow me,
07:32 you follow me.
07:33 Again, a lot is made of being head of household,
07:35 I've never once declared, I'm the head of this household.
07:38 But my children have told me that I am,
07:40 that you've told that I am.
07:42 And by God's grace as I demonstrate compassion
07:45 toward you and toward the children
07:47 and now toward our grandchildren.
07:51 You know, that's what they look to as a leader,
07:54 because that's the leadership model of Christ
07:56 is the one of compassion.
07:57 So, I think establishing that corporate identity,
08:00 this is who we are, this is what we do
08:02 and then rehearsing that corporate identity,
08:05 because we are Tuckers, this is what we do.
08:07 And we found out with our own children,
08:10 when we would observe with them someone else making a mistake.
08:14 Ordinarily what we do instead of condemning the mistake,
08:16 we would say, you know, I want to thank your children,
08:19 because you're part of our family.
08:21 That's not what we do, is it?
08:23 We've chosen differently. We make different choices.
08:26 And that just reinforced in their little minds
08:29 exactly who we are, because we're part of this family.
08:31 These are the choices we make,
08:33 because this is the family we are.
08:34 And there's a wisdom to making these choices
08:36 versus the choices we see others make
08:38 because we avoid that heartache,
08:40 we avoid that sorrow.
08:41 We are making different choices,
08:43 because this is a part of our corporate identity.
08:45 This is who we are as followers of Jesus Christ.
08:48 This is who we are as a part of team Tucker,
08:51 that shared corporate identity.
08:53 And we have another motto that came in.
08:56 We thought we would talk about it
08:57 just for the last few minutes.
08:58 It says, I'd rather be poor with you than rich without you.
09:03 Is that true? I know rich sounds pretty good.
09:05 It does sound good, doesn't it but...
09:07 I had the poor part. Yeah.
09:10 We understand what it's like to be poor together
09:12 but being rich together.
09:14 But, you know, the truth is that,
09:16 that says I value you more than I value money.
09:20 It doesn't mean that it's wrong to have money together.
09:24 It means that what I value is first Jesus
09:27 and then you and, you know, if we have money, that's nice.
09:31 And if we don't have money, okay, we can deal with that,
09:34 but I want you more than I want money.
09:37 It also says, I recognized the fact
09:39 that there will be ups and downs financially.
09:43 Every couple will have financial ups and downs.
09:46 Things will happen that you do not plan on.
09:50 You know, sometimes things are totally out of your control.
09:52 Sometimes you make bad decisions
09:54 and put yourself in a bad spot.
09:55 That happens as well.
09:56 Sometimes, you know,
09:58 there are just a lot of expenses,
09:59 maybe there is illness, whatever.
10:01 There are expenses, there are ups and downs
10:04 and yet the team is what's important,
10:07 the two of us together.
10:08 I'd rather be with you and not have anything
10:11 than to not have you
10:13 because you're what's important in my life.
10:15 There's more reason why couples fight today,
10:17 still about money.
10:19 And I think it's because we get our priorities messed up
10:21 as much as anything else.
10:23 But those ups and downs that you've talked about.
10:26 Obviously you and I have gone through those as well.
10:28 You can't be married as long as we've been married
10:31 and not have ups and downs.
10:33 And, I want to take the opportunity
10:35 to thank you for something.
10:37 A number of years ago, those of you are watching,
10:39 you don't know the story and you never will know it
10:41 and that's fine.
10:42 But years ago, we had a significant,
10:44 I mean a catastrophic financial loss.
10:47 And it wasn't because of anything we had done,
10:50 it was something that happened to us,
10:52 that was actually for the most part
10:54 out of our control.
10:55 But if you had to caste blame anywhere,
10:58 if you had to look at one of us and say it's your fault
11:00 and not yours, you can point the finger at me.
11:02 It was closer to being my fault than it was Gayle's.
11:05 And yet through that entire experience,
11:07 and I mean, this is a catastrophic loss
11:09 that we've not fully recovered from yet.
11:12 I don't know that we will.
11:13 We may work until we're 90
11:15 and then retire because of this catastrophic.
11:17 And that's okay, you know, as Lord gives us health,
11:20 we'll work till we're 90.
11:22 But through that whole experience,
11:24 even at the worst and you never once blamed me.
11:28 You never once threatened to leave.
11:29 You never once put guilt or shame on me as a man.
11:35 And instead,
11:36 you always had this identity of I want to be with you,
11:39 that decision has been made.
11:41 Now, let's make the next decision
11:43 how do we recover from this.
11:44 What are we gonna do about it.
11:46 You know, and that's always the question,
11:47 it's not whose fault is this,
11:50 where we're gonna place the blame,
11:51 it's now, what's the next step?
11:53 Where do we go from here?
11:55 And by the way I've never seen a marriage improve
11:57 by knowing where to place the blame.
11:59 No. But we tend to think that's important.
12:01 Yeah, we do. Whose fault is this?
12:04 It's again to being right, is it not?
12:06 It is. It is.
12:07 And it's natural, we all feel that.
12:09 And it's okay, and I think to go through that stage of,
12:12 you know, how did we get here and why?
12:14 Yeah, it's fine.
12:15 That's understandable. That's all right.
12:17 But ultimately we have to come to the point
12:18 where we say, regardless of how we got here,
12:21 we're moving forward, what's our next step.
12:24 And we're going to move forward together
12:26 because I don't want to be without this person
12:29 that God gave me.
12:30 Yeah, that's you.
12:32 And it's valuing the other person.
12:33 And quite frankly, as catastrophic as this was,
12:36 there was a time when I wondered, you know,
12:38 surely, she is having thoughts about this.
12:41 Surely, she doesn't want to be in the midst of all this mess
12:43 that we got going on.
12:45 Oh, certainly not. Yeah.
12:47 But, you made it clear to me through not just words
12:51 but behavior and attitude
12:53 that there was never a thought in your mind
12:56 of cutting and running.
12:58 Got to cut my losses and get out of dodge quick.
13:00 Not at all. You never once came that way.
13:02 And I've seen couples who have done that though.
13:04 I've seen them where they said, you know,
13:05 this is just too big, I got to get out of here.
13:07 Well, and sometimes it's a really big stress,
13:09 you know, and when if it has to do with people
13:12 making really bad decisions
13:13 and repeated decisions that are bad,
13:15 that's very difficult.
13:17 Yeah, it is tough.
13:18 But basically what we're saying in this motto is just a fact
13:22 that in all those ups and downs of life,
13:24 whether it's finances or anything else,
13:26 we're gonna be together.
13:28 And so, finances are one part of that.
13:30 And realizing that we're in it together,
13:33 George Mannes says this,
13:35 "Spouses who get in each other's face over money
13:38 seldom succeed financially."
13:40 So, basically what he is saying is it's not going to help you
13:43 to have those arguments,
13:45 to get in your spouse's face and say,
13:47 what's wrong with you, this is your fault,
13:49 that's not gonna help.
13:50 But you also got a quote
13:52 about couples that have financial harmony.
13:54 It says, "It's rare to have financial harmony
13:56 and still want to dump each other."
13:58 All right.
13:59 But the truth is, I still want you
14:00 more than I want money.
14:02 That's right.
14:03 We want you to choose this
14:04 because you need to be madly in love.