Participants: Willie and Wilma Lee
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000035
00:30 Welcome to Marriage in God's Hands.
00:32 We are very happy that you are with us today
00:35 and that we can be a part of your life on this day.
00:38 I am Willie Lee, your host, and our co-host is Wilma Lee.
00:43 Welcome. We're happy to have you here today as we talk about
00:47 marriage and sexuality.
00:50 Before we get started, why don't we pray?
00:54 We are thankful, Lord, that You have provided such a
00:58 wonderful experience for marriage.
01:01 Our sexuality is a part of what You have given us, but we
01:06 want to reflect You and the image of God in all that we do.
01:10 Lord, you are such a gracious God.
01:13 You give wonderful gifts, and we thank You for them.
01:17 In the name of Jesus we pray, Amen and Amen.
01:23 When we talk about sexuality in marriage,
01:26 it's something that people think
01:29 is automatic.
01:31 And it might be... but it might
01:33 not be automatically right.
01:36 It might not be a natural thing that's done in a way
01:41 that is healthy and lends itself to God's plan for marriage.
01:47 So, I think it's good for us to be able to share some things
01:50 today about sexuality in marriage because it has
01:55 become a real issue in these days and times we are living in
01:58 right now. Well you know, often times Christians
02:02 don't believe that they can be sexual beings because they don't
02:06 equate the two. But I'm always
02:10 referring to Genesis
02:13 because it says "God created
02:16 male and female. " So right there at the beginning
02:20 we begin with sexuality... male and female.
02:25 That's right. And He said that the two should become one flesh.
02:30 And the very statement is housed in the language of the
02:35 Bible, which gives us an understanding that one-fleshness
02:39 is a sexual union. It is not just looking alike
02:45 or acting alike, it is being together sexually as one
02:49 in marriage - which is a gift from God
02:53 of the highest expression of God's love inside of a marriage
02:58 and the love that then issues forth between
03:02 the husband and wife. Now God has said that
03:06 there should be no relationships that are sexual before marriage
03:11 that enter into sexual relationships that are saved
03:16 for marriage. And the sexual relationships that are for
03:20 marriage are those that involve sexual intimacy.
03:24 And so that needs to be carefully parsed,
03:28 very carefully thought about because God says that's also
03:32 one area that when there's unfaithfulness and there is
03:37 a sexual intimacy that you have with someone that you're not
03:41 married to, that that can be a cause for divorce
03:44 or separation or the dissolution of a marriage.
03:49 Well, I think it's interesting that God said that
03:52 before there were any other people on the earth.
03:56 Because that, too, came out of Genesis. He said
04:00 that a man should leave his family
04:04 and cleave to his wife and there was only Adam and Eve.
04:08 That's right. So it was a direct reference to the coming together
04:14 of husband and wife after marriage,
04:18 and that that's done after you have left your own home...
04:22 not before you leave home and have the marriage ceremony
04:26 and have it solemnized and recognized and supported by
04:30 your church congregation and, as well, the state
04:35 or the governmental authorities.
04:37 But God did say in Matthew 5, verses 27 and 28,
04:42 that it can be a cause for separation and divorce.
04:47 But there is something else that enters in, and we need to
04:51 talk about this because there is a confusion between
04:55 sexual intimacy and sexual relationships
04:58 and lustful relationships. And Jesus made that very clear.
05:02 He says: "I will tell you this much, it's not just a matter
05:07 of having a sexual relationship, physical relationship,
05:10 with another person that's adultery. "
05:13 There can be lust. And if you lust after someone
05:19 and have a desire for someone lustfully,
05:23 that that also can be considered an adulterous situation.
05:28 Well, that's because when we talk about sex and sexuality
05:34 one... THE LARGEST... sexual organ in the human body
05:39 is the brain. That's true!
05:42 That once the mind has grasped and visualized
05:45 and has thought of and considered and planned
05:48 and at the opportunity taken advantage of the opportunity
05:51 for sexual relationships, that's a part of what lusting
05:55 is if it's not with your wife, and you can even - if we are...
06:01 if we really want to parse it very carefully,
06:03 you can be lustful in your marriage with the person
06:07 you are married to. And that may not be a healthy marriage
06:13 if lust is the basis of all sexual relationships.
06:18 But let's stop first before we go there
06:21 and also talk about I Corinthians 6
06:24 and I Corinthians chapter 7.
06:28 Within those chapters at the end of chapter 6
06:32 verses 19 and 20 it talks about that our bodies are the temple
06:37 of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost.
06:41 And if our bodies are the temple of the Holy Ghost, then
06:44 we ought to not allow that which is unclean
06:47 to come into our bodies or come into who we are
06:52 as the instrument or the temple of the Holy Spirit.
06:56 And this is a perfect way of understanding
07:01 that sexuality within marriage that is a sexual relationship
07:07 is blessed and ordained of God, and God considers it so.
07:11 It's when you take it outside of marriage that it creates
07:14 problems that are so severe that they could lead to divorce.
07:20 And that is acceptable by God... BUT...
07:23 It is not absolutely necessary that you divorce
07:26 just because there has been a breaking of the marriage vow
07:30 through a sexual encounter.
07:33 However, it must be said that we are not going to get into the
07:37 details of that, but we'd rather talk about the positive side -
07:41 wouldn't we - of the sexual relationships? Yes.
07:43 And I think that Christians ought to realize the wonderful
07:47 gift that God has given them with sexuality within the
07:51 marriage and not take that gift lightly.
07:54 And it's based upon intimacy.
07:56 Before you even get to sexual intimacy. Exactly.
08:00 And we are going to be seeing some of that as we go through
08:03 some of these areas today. As we look at the growth of
08:08 a marriage and the growth sexually,
08:10 we also would like to say that
08:12 there is a lot of help and
08:14 assistance for couples
08:16 who run into difficulty.
08:17 There are people who are professionals and who are
08:19 licensed and who have studied and are prepared to counsel
08:24 and to give therapy to people who have difficulties
08:28 in some of these areas.
08:30 And it's good to make sure that you locate someone
08:33 who is, as a Christian, on the same Biblical base
08:39 as you are when you look for someone outside of your marriage
08:44 or outside of your church relationship with your pastor
08:47 to have counseling with.
08:50 Well, I also think it's important for couples to
08:52 be in the best physical health -
08:54 all right - as possible.
08:55 And that means that you've had
08:57 a complete physical and that
08:59 you've taken care of all of your
09:01 physical health needs. Because often times we don't
09:05 do that. And I think women are very guilty of doing that
09:09 because they've taken care of everyone else
09:12 but they haven't taken care of themselves.
09:14 And so it's important that we've had our yearly physical.
09:18 That we've had all of our health check-ups:
09:21 our breast exams, our Pap exams.
09:25 And men need to take care of all of those health exams that
09:28 they're supposed to do on an annual basis.
09:31 To not say "Oh, I'll do it when I get around to it. "
09:35 You know, that goes along with keeping the body temple,
09:38 doesn't it? Yes it does!
09:39 And I think it's important for us to understand
09:42 that what you have just shared is such a key thing.
09:45 Because not only does the physical support a good, healthy
09:51 sexual life, the physical also supports a good, healthy
09:55 mental outlook as well. Yes it does.
09:58 And since that affects the way we feel, the way we respond
10:03 sexually as mates, that is very important for us to make sure
10:08 that that is done. However, I would like to also
10:11 say that we are not here today to unpack all there is to know
10:16 about sexuality in the way of detailed sexual therapy
10:21 or to become so intimately involved that we go into every
10:26 part of what is good sexual practice.
10:30 We're not here to share that as much as we are to share
10:33 the foundation that you lay in thinking about sexual
10:38 relationships. Because one of the areas that is a problem
10:42 even within marriage is that sometimes there is such a thing
10:47 as being able or the possibility of doing a rape
10:53 inside the marriage where you force your sexuality
10:57 or force a sexual relationship upon your mate who is not
11:02 prepared for it. And I think that's because we don't always
11:05 know the difference between love and sex.
11:08 Ahhhh. So there is a difference.
11:11 You know sometimes we equate the two. In fact,
11:14 I think the younger generation today equates the two.
11:18 That sex means love,
11:20 and that we can enjoy being in love
11:24 and have sex and have no further responsibilities
11:26 toward our partner. It's almost recreational.
11:30 Is that a difficulty? I think that's a difficulty
11:33 because there is a big difference.
11:35 Because we are talking about in the image of God.
11:38 Definitely. And it's very important.
11:40 And when we move into the second part of our program today
11:44 we are going to put up some graphics that are going to
11:47 discuss in detail... I'm going to spend just about the whole
11:50 second half of our program discussing the difference
11:54 between love and sex or love and lust.
11:58 Because it is something that you ought to know
12:03 as a marriage partner and as a spouse about that which is
12:08 healthy... that which is a foundation for love.
12:12 And I think that that's what makes a Christian marriage,
12:15 OK, and Christian sexuality so much different than what we
12:20 see portrayed in the media. What we see hyped everywhere.
12:26 And what makes a Christian marriage so much delightful
12:30 and makes a marriage... makes it a marriage for a lifetime.
12:33 That's right. Because you are going to be able to see
12:37 the source and the foundation that's laid from which
12:41 all of this should rise and should come.
12:43 And it is based upon an excellent relationship
12:46 between yourself and God. And that relationship, again,
12:51 in that sacred circle - with boundaries - between the
12:56 husband and wife. God is in a relationship that is sexual
13:00 with the boundaries in place and with the right kinds
13:04 of care for your spousal partner.
13:07 So, when we come back, we are going to spend
13:10 most of the second half discussing this, and you won't
13:13 want to miss it. So if your husband or wife is not sitting
13:17 there, your spouse is not with you,
13:19 you'll want to get them to come in and you all share together.
13:22 And you'll have something else to dialogue about.
13:24 And you'll find that it will be delightful.
13:27 We'll look for you in just a moment.
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14:15 Welcome back to Marriage in God's Hands.
14:18 And today we are and have been
14:22 discussing marriage and
14:25 And we have some important
14:27 graphics that we are going to share with you
14:29 as we talk about marriage and sexuality. So, I'm going to
14:35 let you begin that because... as the graphic comes up,
14:39 will you please share with us, Wilma, how we should
14:43 understand these. Well, we want to talk about the difference
14:46 between love and sex. And I think that's important
14:50 because I'm not sure people are
14:53 often clear about what those two
14:56 differences are.
14:57 And I think the graphic
14:59 will help people understand what we're talking about
15:03 when we talk about the difference between love and sex.
15:06 OK, we'll look at the first graphic now.
15:16 And that versus sex, which is:
15:20 OK. So what we are seeing and what we are understanding
15:23 is that sex alone does not promote intimacy
15:29 and the growth of the husband and wife together.
15:34 Exactly. It just becomes an act, a physical act,
15:38 without the emotions and the heart entering into it.
15:41 And, of course, you notice that love requires thoughtful
15:45 conversation. So here we are talking about the intentional
15:49 dialogue and sharing between the two.
15:52 And that requires time. OK.
15:56 That requires commitment, and that requires intention.
16:00 OK. Well that helps us.
16:02 Let's look at the next graphic, then, and see what that says.
16:15 where on the other hand you find
16:27 Forever an illusion...
16:30 You mean you are always getting there but it never really...
16:34 Having happiness and joy is not found just with sex.
16:39 Well, it's kind of like that pot of gold at the end of the
16:42 rainbow: you're always trying to get there
16:44 but you never get there.
16:46 But love develops in depth, and it requires an effort.
16:51 Um-hmm. So that means it's something that you are going to
16:54 have to work toward and for... Because love, I guess, is
16:58 more of a principle of relation- ship than just a feeling.
17:00 Yes. OK. So, when you are talking about this relationship
17:05 that involves effort, does happiness come as a part
17:11 of the act or just at the end?
17:13 Well, I think it's a part of the act, but happiness is something
17:17 that both people bring to the act. OK.
17:20 So, sexuality, then, increases when you both enter into it
17:24 with an expectation that I am happy with you
17:28 and we are going to create that happiness between us.
17:32 Yes. OK. And here, let's look at the next graphic where:
17:41 OK. So that takes, again, time... where:
17:48 Oh, wow! Now that says a whole lot!
17:51 That sounds like if there's not respect required for sex
17:55 then that really is something that is just a recreation
18:00 and it's a "ME-CENTERED" thing.
18:02 I just want something for me and I could care less about you.
18:06 Exactly. And so there is not even evidence of caring
18:12 if it doesn't require respect, that's just anything anybody.
18:17 Well, I've heard people say:
18:19 "Will you respect me in the morning? "
18:22 But, will you respect me even before I start? Exactly.
18:26 Then the respect has to be built into the relationship
18:30 in order for love to exist and to be sustained.
18:34 Exactly. So, again, when we look, here is another powerful
18:39 difference between love and sex.
18:41 Because this graphic talks... it's just very succinct
18:46 but very important because here:
18:51 Ahhh. And, of course:
18:57 You know, one of the components we talked about in intimacy
19:00 is humor. That's right; that's right.
19:02 And so, therefore, love is lots of warm laughter.
19:07 And if you take yourself too seriously
19:11 in a sexual relationship and things do not always happen
19:15 like you imagined they might,
19:17 then it's a real downer, isn't it?
19:19 It can be - certainly - a very difficult thing. Whereas
19:22 if you enter into it with joy and happiness,
19:24 your happiness is not depending upon performance.
19:27 Ummmm, yes. And, you know, our world
19:31 is so bent on performance.
19:35 Everything is what does... how do you do.
19:38 How am I doING? Um-hmmm -
19:41 that there couldn't be a lot of laughter.
19:44 So it sounds more like a being and how you are being.
19:47 Are you being a person who is enjoying and you can laugh about
19:52 the faux pas or that which is a little bit less than what you
19:56 imagined because you are both approaching it with a sense of
20:01 joy and happiness. Yes! Joy and delight.
20:03 All right. And then the next graphic
20:05 talks about another difference.
20:15 OK. And...
20:22 Ho, ho. Now that's interesting, isn't it?
20:25 You know, when you stop to think about it carefully,
20:29 that nails it, doesn't it? I think so!
20:32 Talking about a big behavior versus what?
20:37 Small behavioral changes that bring about good feelings.
20:41 So we are talking about the nuances of approaching
20:44 a sexual relationship in that there is more than just one big
20:50 behavior. There's a lot of things that are happening
20:53 before you even get there.
20:54 Like one book that we read together that was a great book -
20:58 and that was about sex begins... in the kitchen. In the kitchen!
21:02 Even before you get to the bedroom, there's little things
21:05 you do... the things you do between yourselves
21:07 that support one another and... that's right...
21:09 that help one another in other areas of life,
21:12 help to enjoy a sexual relationship later.
21:16 There's a song that... I'm certainly telling my age now...
21:19 that "These little things remind me of you. "
21:22 Small behavioral changes. OK.
21:26 And then there's another graphic that I think talks about
21:29 what happens:
21:39 OK. Here's that feeling thing again.
21:47 Oh, ho. It sounds like a demand to me.
21:51 Yeah. Because it sounds like somebody is saying:
21:54 "I don't care about you but I'm going to get what I want. "
21:57 OK. OK. That becomes very clear.
22:00 And once again it's that "ME-CENTEREDNESS."
22:02 That ego must be fed in me,
22:06 and I must feel like a big person because of what I do.
22:10 What happens if you don't like me?
22:14 I don't have to. Isn't that something?
22:17 Because if I don't respect you or anything else,
22:19 that is not important. Where the basic tenor
22:24 of what we are seeing about love
22:25 it's about us. OK. OK.
22:28 And I think that's real
22:29 important that it's not
22:31 the me or the you, it's about the we or the us.
22:36 OK. US. That brings back an important picture,
22:41 doesn't it - yes - when you talk about the story of US.
22:44 Yes. Yeah, that's great.
22:46 Here's another thing that love is important to think about:
22:51 The graphic says:
22:56 Um-hmm... where:
23:01 Wow! Now that is a picture that's startling.
23:06 Why startling? I mean, if you don't require respect
23:10 it's one big behavior, it doesn't take any effort.
23:14 But love, remember, takes small behavioral acts.
23:19 That says something about commitment.
23:22 It does, doesn't it?
23:24 For the long run. Not just for an instant.
23:27 Not just for a moment.
23:29 It's relationship that builds and grows and develops...
23:34 and sustains anything... even changes physically.
23:39 Because that happens as we talk about the development
23:42 of marriage. And as you get older, things change
23:45 and things have to be adjusted.
23:48 And if it's not dependent upon a big act but those little
23:51 incremental changes and the attention that you get
23:54 all along the way,
23:56 that is an important thing to understand.
23:59 And then there's another point of this when you look at
24:01 the comparison between love and sex.
24:04 The next graphic says:
24:15 Oh, OK. And?
24:27 Oh, ho, ho. Ah, yes.
24:31 That is seemingly what we get from the world around us
24:37 that is not even the human world.
24:40 Because that sounds more like an animal reaction and response.
24:46 Well I'll let you say that.
24:48 Because we see that it doesn't
24:51 take animals acculturating
24:55 to each other or developing
24:57 anything. It's either this is
25:00 the time, the instinct, or the dog that is in heat,
25:04 or whatever... and then you move on.
25:06 What you have just shared talks about a life together.
25:10 That's true. You can't really develop good sexuality
25:14 unless you've got the promise of many tomorrows.
25:17 That's very true. And I think that what happens particularly
25:23 in a marriage that's for a lifetime.
25:25 People find as they age that things aren't what they were
25:30 when they were younger. Um-hmm. And so when we talk about
25:33 love and sexuality through the seasons of life -
25:37 yes - those things change as well.
25:40 And that doesn't mean that there is love more or less.
25:44 It's just different. OK.
25:46 You know, I would like to suggest... if you haven't...
25:50 Read the Song of Solomon, a tremendous book,
25:54 to understand the very specialness of approaching
25:57 sexuality and intimate relationships and growing
26:01 and developing that relationship.
26:02 God put the Song of Solomon there for a reason.
26:05 And that's to help us to understand married love.
26:09 You know, this is something really we need to pray about
26:12 because the world is attacking it and is not supporting
26:16 the Christian and Biblical sexual relationships
26:20 in marriage. Loving Father,
26:23 there is so much in the world that is annoying
26:28 and beginning to affect all of us.
26:32 And unless we really focus in with You on the Word of God,
26:36 we cannot understand how to grow our marriage.
26:39 And especially in this very special gift... in sexual love
26:43 for married couples. Lord, we are so thankful
26:46 for Your Word and thankful for the fact that You know us,
26:50 You created us, and You have a plan
26:53 for every part of our lives.
26:55 Help us to listen to You and to be open to Your Spirit.
26:59 In the name of Jesus we pray, Amen and Amen.
27:04 You know, this can be a very tremendous area
27:07 for us to share together as couples knowing that closeness
27:13 and developing something that's slow and steady
27:16 and ongoing... that it's best that way.
27:19 God has given us something very special and unique.
27:24 A gift for us to be able to enjoy and experience
27:29 sexual love in a Biblical way.
27:32 And that's going to be something that we can treasure
27:35 for the rest of our lives. And we hope that you will
27:37 with your spouse enjoy and appreciate and develop
27:42 that special love. God bless you!