Participants: Willie and Wilma Lee
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000032
00:30 Welcome to Marriage in God's Hands.
00:32 I'm Willie Lee, your host, and our co-host is Wilma Lee.
00:38 Welcome, today we're going to talk about marriage,
00:41 - celebrating uniqueness. - And that uniqueness you
00:45 can see in us. We hope that you will join us in prayer as we
00:50 begin this session. Thank You dear Lord
00:54 for creating us in Your image, and we know, dear Lord,
00:58 that as You have created us You will support us and help us
01:02 grow as a person, as well as as a child of God, and we ask
01:09 You to bless us as we discuss this today.
01:13 Lord, we know that You created us, male and female, in Your
01:17 image, so bless us as You bring Your Holy Spirit into this
01:21 conversation. We thank You in the name of Jesus, amen.
01:28 You can tell by our topic that we're going to be talking about
01:34 something that's very, very special and very dear to our
01:38 heart because as we look different, and some people say
01:43 we don't look that different, but we are different, both male
01:46 and female, as well as personality, temperament,
01:49 and we have a fun time together because we are different,
01:54 we're not exactly the same, and we've learned how to celebrate
01:59 that uniqueness and differentness that we have
02:03 as individuals and persons in our marriage.
02:07 Yeah, I think that that's been the fun thing.
02:11 You know, when you proposed you asked me if I'd be bored
02:14 for the rest of my life, and for the past 40 years one thing I've
02:19 not been is bored because we are unique and different.
02:24 And every day I find out something new.
02:28 - Oh, do you...still? - Oh, definitely.
02:31 And I thought I had stopped releasing that new stuff.
02:34 - Are you alive and breathing? - I'm alive and breathing.
02:37 - Okay. - So I'm still releasing, huh?
02:40 - Oh, definitely. - Well, as we look at the Word
02:42 of God. We can see in Luke 2:52, we're very familiar with
02:49 this Scripture, we talk about Jesus in light of the fact that
02:56 He grew in wisdom, and in stature, and in favor with God
03:01 and man. As you read about Jesus, Jesus was often talked
03:07 about as someone different than the norm, people looked at Him
03:11 in a different way, and they all loved Him, and they were dear
03:15 to His heart, and He was dear to many people's hearts because
03:20 He represented a different type of a person than they've
03:23 been used to having in their lives.
03:27 And that is the beginning of our discussion, because obviously,
03:34 when Jesus came to this earth He came fully as man, as well as
03:38 fully God, but His personality, and the personhood of Jesus
03:43 was very unique and very special.
03:46 Yes, in Genesis God says He created the male and female,
03:52 so His plan was that they would reflect His image uniquely
03:57 - as male and female. - That is a very, very special
04:02 understanding, a lot of times we go right past that and we fail
04:06 to realize that when God created you, and when God created
04:10 your spouse, in Adam and Eve, as He did at the beginning,
04:15 the same thing He expects of us - that we represent God
04:19 through our gender, that's first of all, and also through our
04:24 uniqueness of personality, and the way that we are
04:27 as individuals. I guess complicating that a little bit
04:32 is after sin because after sin the roles that are spoken
04:37 of in Genesis 3, He says that there would be certain ways
04:41 that we would approach life and approach each other that would
04:43 be different; that there is not a sameness about man,
04:48 even after sin, and woman, that they both would have
04:53 to go through life with a little bit more difficulty, and would
04:56 have to have different ways in which they approach the world,
05:00 so there is a differentness, and instead of using that
05:04 as a point that we try to make everybody like each other,
05:08 we must celebrate that differentness and especially as
05:11 - it is reflective of God. - But I think that if we just
05:15 look at males and females, not only are they different when you
05:20 look at them, but if you peal back that top layer where
05:26 the brain is, we find that they're wired differently.
05:30 Oh yes, and if you haven't noticed that in the way that
05:34 people respond to each other as male and female,
05:38 there are many different types of humorous stories that are
05:43 told about the differentness of men and women. But more than
05:47 just in a humorous way, there is a definite need to have
05:52 the input of both, because they bring something very special
05:56 from the male perspective and the female perspective because
05:59 of being wired differently, and seeing the world through
06:03 different filters and different eyes, and that makes for
06:07 a blending of something very special in a marriage.
06:11 And God made it so from the beginning, and it's unique,
06:15 and it's very interesting that it's taken scientists here, now,
06:21 as they study the brain to find that out, but that was God's
06:25 plan because He said that it was a help meet,
06:30 a completing of one and the other, because male and female
06:35 - reflect the image of God. - Ahh, that is something unique
06:41 and special because when you have 2 people in a husband and
06:46 a wife, as Adam and Eve were created in the image of God,
06:51 and they were created by the Father, the Son and the Holy
06:55 Ghost, who are 3 persons, but yet bringing their unique
07:00 purposes, even though they're combined into the Godhead,
07:05 they represent different parts of God, and the way He works
07:12 with us, and the way He works with the universe.
07:15 And so it is with the husband and wife, that we must
07:18 maintain and celebrate our uniqueness and differentness
07:23 in our perspective in the world because as we see through
07:26 the eyes that God has created in us, and as we reflect through
07:30 the Word of God, and through our relationship with God,
07:33 we are to know that that differentness creates something
07:36 that is going to be very, very practical in the way that
07:41 we not only see the world, but work in the world
07:44 and represent God in the world.
07:46 Yes, because we are told that Holy Spirit gives gifts
07:50 and talents to whom He will, so that means that everybody
07:54 comes to a relationship with their own set of gifts, talents,
07:59 personalities and temperaments, and they're usually not the same
08:03 - as their spouses. - So not only ties into
08:06 Galatians 5:22,23, it also ties into 1 Corinthians 12 as well,
08:14 that talks about gift through the Holy Spirit.
08:17 The Holy Spirit gives those gifts, that that's when you're
08:19 connected with God, and you are really in tune with Him,
08:24 then God can take who you are as a husband and wife
08:27 and create something that is more than just a male or
08:32 a female, but in their unit itself, then the marriage
08:36 becomes unique and we celebrate the fact that not every marriage
08:41 is going to look alike, just like individuals are not going
08:44 to look alike, they're all going to reflect God, but they're
08:46 going to reflect the gifts that the Holy Spirit has brought
08:50 - to that marriage. - Definitely, and no husband
08:53 and wife will look like any other husband and wife because
08:57 everybody is unique and God celebrates that because He's
09:03 - a big God. - Okay, so even though they may
09:06 not look alike, or even act alike, but their behaviors will
09:10 be respective of God's behavior, they will be
09:15 Christ-like in their behavior, they will reflect the fruits
09:19 of the Spirit in their relationships with each other,
09:22 as well as with others, but each one will have a unique
09:26 and special flavor Now, maybe you can share
09:29 with me some ways that that's expressed within the marriage
09:34 when a woman looks at the marriage, and looks at being
09:40 the wife of the husband, and the husband looks at the wife.
09:45 How do we celebrate that uniqueness as man and wife with
09:50 each other in our marriage. Well, I guess that goes back
09:53 to where we talked about boundaries because when
09:56 a husband and wife look at each other, then they look at what
10:00 they uniquely bring to the marriage. You know, as a couple
10:06 we're kind of strange because people think that I'm the shy,
10:12 retiring one in this twosome. Not!
10:15 Oh my, that would be a strange thought, yes.
10:19 So often times it looks like I'm the more outgoing,
10:26 talkative one when that's not really the case.
10:30 I just talk a lot sometimes.
10:34 I'm not going to try to parse that.
10:38 No, don't do that, but at any rate, because people make
10:44 assumptions, because of what they see, then it isn't always
10:50 what people see, but that's not their boundary.
10:54 Okay, so what you're saying is that whatever a wife may bring
10:58 to that marriage, or the husband brings to that marriage in
11:00 their personality, temperament, the way they interact,
11:04 is not to be determined by people outside of that marriage.
11:06 - Exactly. - That's something they work out
11:09 with God within their marriage, and we ought to be able
11:13 to celebrate with them the differentness that each of them
11:17 brings. That's not an easy thing, is it?
11:21 And I think that for a lot of contemporary couples
11:24 where some wives make more money than their husbands, and as we
11:29 look at times past, husbands made more money than wives
11:34 and that was the expectation, there's the discussion about
11:40 who should be in charge because money was usually
11:44 the determining factor. There's discussion about
11:48 - then who is in charge? - Well, was money the only
11:53 determining factor or was it also gender?
11:57 Well, society said that the person who made the most
12:01 money, usually the man, was the person in charge.
12:06 But times have changed now, so sometimes women make the most
12:12 money, and there's the tug of what they say, society,
12:17 versus the reality of the person who makes the most money
12:22 may not be the man. So does it mean that because
12:26 he does not make the money that he shouldn't be respected
12:29 as Ephesians 5 says, as the head of the home, or the head
12:34 - of the family? - No, not at all, however,
12:39 that does not mean then that that is an unequal marriage
12:44 as some people would imply because she makes more money
12:48 - than he. - Well, this is an interesting
12:51 thing. Just to talk about one area of differentness
12:54 and uniqueness, but there are many other things that are
12:58 other than just financial things that cause a couple to have
13:02 to struggle with the issues of uniqueness and how we
13:06 celebrate that, and how we respect that.
13:09 And you brought another thing in and that's the boundaries,
13:12 so our next period of time when we talk we're going to be
13:15 talking about some other areas in which boundaries,
13:18 and uniqueness, and special celebration of that uniqueness
13:22 will take place, so stay right there please, and let's continue
13:26 our discussion as we talk about managing marriage
13:30 in God's hands.
13:39 There are many "How to" books available, but there's one
13:42 that's free, and perfect for every couple:
13:44 "How You Can Build a Better Marriage".
13:47 Bible-based matrimonial advice is given in a light
13:50 hearted, easy to read manner for those contemplating marriage,
13:54 newly weds, couples in their golden years, and everyone
13:57 in between. Simply call or write for your copy of this amazing
14:01 little booklet, a handy little tool to help build a better
14:15 Welcome back to Marriage in God's Hands.
14:18 We're discussing marriage as a celebration of uniqueness
14:24 in a couple of different ways, and as we've been talking
14:27 about that we've been showing from the Word of God how God
14:32 has created us special and unique, both as male and female,
14:35 but also with our personality and temperament,
14:38 and gifts of the Holy Spirit as provided for us based upon
14:43 how the fruits operated as well. You have some things
14:48 you can share with us a little bit more about how that might
14:51 look when God gets into the lives and begins to express
14:56 Himself through husbands and wives in their unique roles,
15:01 or their unique place in marriage.
15:03 Well, Galatians 5:13-15, from the Message, paraphrased, says
15:10 "It is absolutely clear that God has called you to a free life, "
15:16 "just make sure that you don't use this freedom as an excuse"
15:19 "to do whatever you want to do and destroy your freedom. "
15:23 And I think that's interesting because we often think
15:27 "I'm free to do whatever I want to do", but here we're talking
15:31 about using freedom to destroy freedom. It says:
15:34 "Rather use your freedom to serve one another in love, "
15:38 "that's how freedom grows. For everything we know about"
15:41 "God's word is summed up in a single sentence: love others"
15:46 "as you love yourself. That's an act of true freedom. "
15:50 "If you bite and ravage each other, watch out, in no time"
15:54 "at all you will be annihilating each other and where will"
15:57 "your precious freedom be then? "
16:00 That's a terrific translation because it really brings it down
16:06 and makes it very real to us. We're living in an age now
16:11 where people are saying "I'm free to do what I want to",
16:13 and even in marriages, especially among younger couples
16:18 coming in and saying "Well, I have my life, you have your"
16:20 "life, we can live it like we want to live it",
16:23 and sometimes we find them giving up on marriage very
16:26 quickly because they're not utilizing the freedom God gives
16:32 them to be who they are to complement one another,
16:35 or to supplement each other, they're using it rather,
16:37 to devour each other, or to test, or threaten one another
16:42 because "I've got to have it my way, I've got to do what"
16:44 "I need to do". God says that's not the way
16:46 to celebrate uniqueness, there is a better way that that
16:52 freedom can be used in Christ to celebrate uniqueness.
16:56 Can you maybe share with us another way that uniqueness
17:01 can be celebrated that adds to the marriage and adds
17:05 to the image of Christ being restored in us.
17:08 Well, I think we go back to where we were talking about
17:11 communication, words of encouragement, because we look
17:18 at what happens when 2 unique individuals come together,
17:23 you always have your own cheering squad because that
17:28 other person rejoices when you rejoice, and Solomon talks about
17:34 a chord being bound together where 2 are always better than
17:39 1 and that you become a strong team. So therefore you know
17:46 you always have somebody on your side cheering for you.
17:50 So no matter what happens outside you know you have
17:55 somebody in your corner, and that's always the best part
18:00 of having that spouse who has that encouraging word for you,
18:05 or the Kleenex for you when things get tough, or somebody
18:09 to say "I know you can do it, no matter what anybody"
18:13 "else says", so that's a part of celebrating the uniqueness
18:18 because you need somebody in your corner.
18:21 That's a very important part of what we have found to be
18:25 very, very special for our lives. As we got married,
18:29 of course, we made decisions about children, about who was
18:32 going to stay at home and raise the children while the other
18:35 was out, and that was fairly traditional at that point,
18:41 but there was also another decision that was made in which
18:45 we said after the children are in school, and of course,
18:48 we chose church school because we wanted them taught of
18:50 the Lord in the home as well as in the school, then there was
18:54 an opportunity for you to finish your education and to pursue
18:59 your work for Christ with the training and the background
19:04 that you wanted to follow, so we celebrated your uniqueness
19:08 and your gifts, even while we were still allowing the gifts
19:12 of the Holy Spirit through ministry and the pastorate
19:16 in my life. And that's another way that we can say God is able
19:22 to celebrate the uniqueness. John 15 talks about how we love
19:28 one another, the commandment "love one another as I have"
19:31 "loved you", or He also says: "Love one another as you love"
19:39 "yourself", so in marriage we have another self who is
19:47 our wife or our husband, and they're not the same
19:50 personality, they're not the same temperament, but we read
19:55 in Genesis where the 2 become 1, but the self is not destroyed
20:03 of each person when they become one they become so united.
20:08 Because Adam said: "This is now bone of my bone, flesh of my"
20:13 "flesh, but she shall be called 'woman'. "
20:18 And you know, as we look at that the gender difference is
20:24 downplayed today in many aspects. Now a woman can pursue
20:30 careers that only men pursued at one point, but that should not
20:34 separate or cause the decisions in the home to be changed
20:41 just because we can change them, they ought to be changed
20:46 and reflect the gifts at home, it ought to reflect also your
20:51 gender at home. Mothers are still great mothers.
20:56 God, I think, built into motherhood something that a man
21:00 who is a father could never really do, not completely.
21:04 You might parent and you might be a great nurturing parent,
21:08 but a father can't be a mother, and a mother can't be a father.
21:12 - Definitely. - So the uniqueness of those
21:15 roles in parenting, and in making the home special is still
21:21 something that God wants us to celebrate and to keep in its
21:26 order and in its place. I feel very strongly about
21:33 that celebration, that freedom,
21:35 and the boundaries that each couple has to decide which role,
21:41 and when, and how, God gives us that privilege of working
21:46 - that out within our home. - And I'm so glad that we serve
21:49 a God who trusts us with that freedom. So often we think
21:54 that God is very limiting, but we serve a God who created
21:59 us with a brain, and an intellect, and the opportunity
22:03 to exercise that, and to have that type of freedom within
22:09 the walk we have with Him. I am so excited about that
22:14 opportunity to celebrate that, and for couples to develop that
22:19 within their home, I think that's so wonderful to have that
22:24 - kind of God. - So we won't have to destroy
22:28 each other, we can build each other up in Christ.
22:33 That's something about wholeness that comes out of that,
22:36 it really creates a whole when you're looking at the wife
22:40 and the husband in the home, and they're sharing that
22:43 leadership position, but recognizing and understanding
22:47 that God wants a man to take the spiritual leadership
22:50 and to exercise the leadership in that home and make sure
22:53 the family goes the way it needs to go, and that wife
22:58 is a coregent with her husband, and submitting to his leadership
23:04 - in Christ. - Yes.
23:06 Now, once again, these boundaries have to be
23:09 established in the home by the couple in their study of
23:14 the Word of God, in their relationship with Christ.
23:17 And realizing that everybody has a responsibility to answer
23:21 to Christ for the gifts and abilities given to them
23:25 individually, and that Christ would have an accounting to them
23:30 for what they have been given, and if both people
23:34 are growing in Christ with what they have been given,
23:37 how exciting can that be, that's just an awesome experience,
23:42 and to see that for 2 people to grow together in Christ,
23:47 I mean, isn't that what Christ was doing every day when He
23:49 came and walked and talked in the garden with Adam and Eve?
23:52 That's right, and we not only have Him walking and talking
23:56 with them, but in many of the aspects after sin we need help
24:05 because we do make missteps and mistakes along the way,
24:09 and who better to love you unconditionally is Christ,
24:13 except your mate, your spouse in Christ ought to be the first
24:17 one to say "I know that's rough, and yes, it was tough going"
24:21 "through that, but I'm not giving up on you, I love you, "
24:25 "Christ loves you, and I will exercise my freedom"
24:31 "to support you to continue to grow, and to learn from"
24:35 "your experience. " We all need that.
24:37 That's right, and it's often nice to have another
24:41 perspective, to look at things and say "Well, what do you"
24:46 "think about this... ", or "here's an alternative... "
24:50 because sometimes out of your frustration or your hurt
24:55 you don't have that ability to see that for yourself.
24:58 And we don't have to collapse into a "Mars/Venus" thing
25:01 because often times in homes you do have people on different
25:05 planets, and we don't need to be on different planets,
25:09 or from different planets, we need to be in relationship
25:14 with Christ, and to be one with Christ, and to feel with
25:19 each other and support one another. This has been a very,
25:22 very meaningful discussion and I hope that you at home
25:27 can continue to use the dialogue as we have discussed in
25:31 a previous program to exercise that uniqueness, and to share
25:38 with each other how you feel and how you would like to see
25:41 your marriage, and your relationship grow.
25:45 Who needs the support? Who needs help?
25:49 Who needs to be encouraged? So make sure that your dialogue
25:54 is encouraging and up building in Christ with one another.
25:58 Maybe it's time for us to pray.
26:01 - I think so. - Dear Lord, thank You so much
26:05 for sharing with us through Your Word the different instructions
26:10 on how to be united and one, and at the same time be very
26:15 special and unique. May we continue to uphold one another
26:20 in Christ according to the power and the understanding
26:24 - through Your Spirit. - And thank You for being
26:27 a big enough God to make us different, and yet unique,
26:31 and to reflect Your image. We thank You for this privilege,
26:35 in the name of Jesus we pray, amen.
26:40 I think there are many thing that can be discussed out of
26:44 this in our coupleness in our marriage. Don't you feel
26:49 that there's a lot of things that will grow out of this?
26:52 I think so, and I think that there's a lot of cause for
26:55 celebration maybe where we haven't found a reason
26:59 to celebrate our uniqueness. Yes, it's a lot better
27:04 to celebrate uniqueness than to challenge one another
27:08 and to devour one another and destroy each other.
27:11 There's no need for that, there's room enough in God's
27:15 kingdom, in God's economy, and in the family, in the marriage
27:19 for both of us to exercise the gifts of the Spirit after
27:24 having developed the fruits of the Spirit.
27:25 - Yes. - And remember, the fruits
27:28 are needed in order to know how to exercise the gifts.
27:32 - Yes. - So in your prayer, in your
27:35 dialogue, in your togetherness, remember, there is a uniqueness
27:39 that God has given to each one of you, celebrate that,
27:42 and celebrate it as a couple of God, God bless you.