Participants: Willie and Wilma Lee
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000029
00:30 Welcome to Marriage in God's Hands.
00:33 I'm Willie Lee, your host for this program,
00:37 and my co-host, of course, is my partner...
00:41 and that's Wilma Lee.
00:43 Welcome! Today we're going to talk about intimacy...
00:47 a re-definition.
00:49 Before we begin, let's just offer a word of prayer.
00:54 Dear Lord, it's so good to have you in our lives.
00:58 We don't know what we would do without you.
01:02 But since we don't have to, we'll rejoice and celebrate
01:05 your presence even as we talk today about how we can stay
01:10 in Your hands and follow Your plan for our marriage.
01:14 In Jesus' name, Amen.
01:18 Now that we have established
01:20 that God has a plan, and that
01:23 plan can help us rejoice
01:26 along the way... can help us
01:27 celebrate. We want you to also understand that there are some
01:33 components to marriage in God's hands that will make it
01:38 very special. It's not a component that we are
01:42 unaware of. It's just that this particular component has been
01:47 profaned by the world and it has become something
01:50 other than what God planned.
01:52 Yes, well, marriage totally
01:55 has become other than what
01:56 God has planned.
01:58 And it's our joy and delight
02:00 when we talk about marriage in God's hands to talk about
02:04 restoring the whole image of marriage.
02:07 And so we have to talk about restoring the image of God in
02:11 marriage because, you know, it's fascinating to me to find out
02:16 what marriages cost now days. No, I should back that up
02:21 and say what weddings cost... - there you go, all right -
02:25 now days... because people only plan for a wedding,
02:29 they do not plan for a marriage.
02:31 Well, what we are talking about today really doesn't cost
02:35 because we know that after that special day that is supposed
02:40 to be in the world the epitome and the peak of marriage...
02:44 it's the zenith of marriage...
02:46 and it usually goes downhill from there.
02:48 God's plan has it just the opposite.
02:51 A wedding is just the commencement, just the beginning
02:55 and then it takes off and forever goes up.
02:58 But we must have what God started in the beginning with
03:01 Adam and Eve. Yes. Because we found out that
03:04 even after sin, we read in Genesis the 3rd chapter and
03:08 verse 8, that God came walking in the garden like He usually
03:12 does, looking Adam and Eve and couldn't find them.
03:17 So, there was an intimate relationship that they had
03:20 together AND with God.
03:23 So that intimacy is what we're going to talk about today
03:26 because we need to re-define it back in the image of God.
03:32 And so, first and foremost, that means that intimacy does
03:36 not just mean sex.
03:38 Oh, my, she said the word, didn't she?
03:42 But yet isn't that where the world, isn't that what you have
03:44 found out: that intimacy must be defined according to whoever
03:50 wants to promote a special something you wear or something
03:55 you put on or an activity that you do?
03:58 That if it doesn't reach that that the world has ascribed
04:03 that it's erotic... that there is not intimacy
04:07 unless you do that? The world has sort of put us in a mold.
04:11 We want to break that mold today a little bit,
04:13 and go back to God's plan for intimacy.
04:16 And God's plan was that there would be a man and a woman
04:22 and Him. And so that first defines intimacy:
04:28 that there must be God in the middle and a man and a woman
04:33 who are walking and talking with God.
04:36 So, communication is in the center of that, but...
04:39 it's more than just talking, it's more than just walking...
04:44 even though today there are a lot of activities that I'm sure
04:48 you enjoy that are good physical activities: walking, talking,
04:52 running and talking. I guess if I was running
04:54 I wouldn't be doing a lot of talking!
04:56 I don't think so. I don't think those two go together.
04:59 I know they wouldn't for me!
05:01 So it has to be a walk that's a little bit more in line
05:05 with one other in order to promote more than just the
05:08 physical exercise... it promotes a heart to heart.
05:12 And so there are some ideals that God has placed there.
05:16 First of all, I think you mentioned the fact that it's
05:18 with God, and that must be promoted.
05:21 There ought to be a spiritual intimacy that each mate has
05:24 with God. Do you have time with your Bible?
05:28 Do you as an individual, as a spouse, go off to yourself
05:33 and read your Bible and pray about you and God
05:37 and then come back and have moments of devotion or
05:40 moments of time discussing and sharing what you have grown
05:45 into in your talk with God?
05:47 There must be an intimate relationship with God first
05:50 as an individual and then with each other.
05:53 I think there's a law of physics - you're right - the closer two
05:57 bodies are to a third body the closer they are to each other.
06:02 Yes, and God operates within His laws in all areas of life...
06:07 be it natural law or the relational laws.
06:11 So, it's amazing to us and a surprise sometimes
06:16 when God does exactly the same thing that
06:21 we see in nature.
06:23 But, God hasn't messed up with nature;
06:26 it's man that messes up with nature.
06:28 So we need to stop messing with "Mother Nature, " don't we?
06:32 And do it God's way. Yes!
06:35 So, you have four components that you share.
06:40 Where will you start with your sharing of that today?
06:42 Well, before we get there I'd like to talk about
06:46 the fruits of the Spirit. OK, let's do that.
06:48 But it comes from the message because in an intimate marriage
06:53 where we are re-defining, we have to talk about commitment.
06:57 OK. Because we can't use the throw-away method
07:03 for an intimate marriage.
07:06 OK. So you are saying that commitment is one of those
07:10 values that helps to make for an intimate... How so?
07:15 Because, you know, again, we have to go back to where we are
07:19 in today's society. Unfortunately, I've had the
07:25 displeasure of watching some of these programs like
07:29 Bridezilla. And it's amazing to me that,
07:35 first of all, anybody would allow themselves to be filmed
07:39 and secondly... and to be titled... Bridezilla.
07:43 And secondly, that people would spend an awful amount of money
07:49 for a day and they have no clue what they are going to do
07:54 after this day. But if some of these fellows
07:58 are really going to marry these women after this behavior,
08:02 I'm afraid, I'm very afraid. But commitment is not anything
08:08 that's ever discussed in all of these programs.
08:11 So it seems to me it's like: Well OK if this doesn't work out
08:15 Hmmmm. OK, so you are speaking of commitment
08:18 to the concept of marriage as a
08:23 method of staying together, and building and growing
08:26 forever marriages? YES! YES! Oh, it's not just for the
08:30 wedding time? NO! But it's so much fun having weddings.
08:34 NO! It's not just for the wedding, it's for a life...
08:38 it's for a life-long relationship.
08:40 There is something about wedding vows for better, for worse...
08:45 If we didn't even go to the
08:48 richer, poorer, sickness, health
08:49 just for better, worse...
08:51 And you make it through all of those in your marriage, too.
08:54 You DO get through all of those. That's right.
08:57 So you need to have a sense of commitment to the marriage
09:02 as well as to the person.
09:04 Because you have to have a concept that "I'm in this,
09:08 and I plan to be in this. "
09:11 So, a wedding vow that is taken
09:14 is not just a set of words
09:16 you say during a certain time.
09:18 It's actually a form of a covenant with God.
09:22 Did you make a covenant with God in your marriage?
09:26 Did you start with the idea that this is forever
09:31 with God and with my spouse?
09:34 And that's where you're starting... Yes.
09:37 And I'd like for you to listen to Galatians 5:22-23
09:41 as The Message Paraphrase puts it:
09:44 "For what happens when we live God's way?
09:47 He brings gifts into our lives much the same way that fruit
09:52 appears in an orchard. Things like affection for others,
09:55 exuberance about life, serenity. We develop a willingness
10:01 to stick with things, a sense of compassion in the heart,
10:06 and a conviction that a basic holiness permeates things
10:11 and people. We find ourselves involved in loyal commitment,
10:16 not needing to force our way in life, and able to marshal
10:21 and direct our energies wisely. "
10:23 Wow, that's a mouthful, isn't it? Yes!
10:26 And it's a whole lot to talk about because that's a level
10:30 of commitment that sounds very much like
10:35 God planned for this thing to be for eternity.
10:39 Yes, He did. But there are enough things in there
10:42 to make it fun. OK. So you're saying it's enjoyable.
10:45 It's not stick in it for better or worse, and if it gets worse
10:50 just stay there anyway because, you know, there's a way of
10:53 thinking in the world today, and part of the way that...
10:55 I don't know if you've heard this or experienced this:
10:58 that people are saying that if your marriage is not bad,
11:02 it's bad to stay in a bad marriage with your children
11:07 experiencing everything that's going on in your marriage.
11:10 God has another plan, folks, from what I'm hearing.
11:13 That it doesn't have to be bad; it never HAS TO BE bad.
11:17 You go through bad times and difficult
11:20 and challenging periods of time,
11:22 but God has a plan for it to be a commitment
11:26 for a great marriage for a long time.
11:29 He says "exuberance about life. " That doesn't sound
11:33 like drudgery to me... or a stick in the mud, huh? NO!
11:36 So, when we talk about marriage commitment, first of all
11:41 we have to understand that God is committed to marriage.
11:44 He will uphold a marriage, and He will bring happiness and joy
11:49 to a marriage. So if He has a commitment, we ought to have
11:52 a commitment with His commitment and we ought to have a
11:56 commitment to each other to do our part in making sure
12:00 that the marriage stays exciting and viable.
12:05 When I say viable, that means that it's something
12:08 that is worth staying in.
12:10 That it's something that's good for both of us.
12:13 And of course, this talks about we develop a willingness
12:17 to stick with things. So, we're not in this because we
12:21 have to be, it's because we want to be.
12:24 So, when we look at Galatians 5:22 and 23
12:27 the fruit of the Spirit now is applied to what we bring
12:32 to the marriage itself. That if we bring those values
12:36 that are in Galatians 5:22-23, the Spirit provides us with them
12:41 that it will make the marriage a great marriage.
12:45 And two people will bring these fruits... not just one.
12:48 Oh, you mean, I thought maybe the wife does everything, right?
12:53 Oh, no. You're confused. And the man just goes out and
12:55 hunts and brings home the bread. No, no, no, you're confused.
12:58 Remember the two bodies close to the third body?
13:02 Oh, so our staying together with God in this...
13:06 This is a contract, a covenant with God and a commitment
13:11 with God - yes - for the marriage to be great
13:13 that two people make. OK.
13:15 Then we're ready to move on and we will move on
13:18 and discover some of the very special, practical ways
13:21 that we can discover that make our marriage not only
13:26 just a committed marriage but a marriage that's exciting
13:29 and fun and intimate.
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14:17 Welcome back to Marriage in God's Hands.
14:20 I'm your host. I'm Willie Lee
14:23 with our co-host, Wilma Lee.
14:26 And we're here to continue our discussion about intimacy.
14:31 A re-definition of intimacy.
14:34 So, now that we've established some ground rules...
14:39 First of all, the spiritual connections.
14:41 Because even after there was Cain and Abel
14:47 there was an altar experience, there was a giving to God.
14:51 And, of course, when you give to God, God imbues you with
14:56 the Holy Spirit's fruits, and you have talked about that.
15:01 Are there some practical ways that that comes out in the
15:05 communication that you can share with us?
15:08 Or how we related to each other as husband and wife
15:11 in practical ways. Share some of those steps of intimacy
15:16 or elements of intimacy that will make it special
15:20 that's not just sexual. It might be some sexuality ultimately
15:25 but... before that... Well, I think that there are
15:28 4 basic components of intimacy
15:31 that you have to have
15:33 in building an intimate relationship.
15:35 And the first one I think of is
15:37 time because you can't build an intimate relationship in haste.
15:43 OK. You have to have time.
15:46 Well, I'll give you five minutes of quality time.
15:50 Um, um... you're confused because if you have to define it
15:55 as quality time then first of all we're already in trouble.
15:59 So, time means that kind of time that you give that you're not
16:05 checking your watch. You don't have your PDA set.
16:09 You don't have your beeper on,
16:12 and your cell phone isn't going to ring.
16:14 You know it's the time that, back in the day when we were
16:18 kids, it was you walked me to the corner,
16:21 then I walked you back. And then when you got home,
16:24 you called me on the phone and we talked.
16:28 And then the parents said: "Well, didn't you just see them?
16:30 Can't you hang up the phone? " It's that kind of time.
16:34 Oh, you're talking about after marriage time is like it was
16:38 before marriage? YES! Oh, OK.
16:42 So, that's one of those elements of intimacy: that time is given
16:48 by both of them to each other? YES!
16:52 OK. And what happens when that time... what does that time do?
16:55 Is it just that we get bored with each other, or what?
16:59 No. You defined it. It's the before marriage time that you
17:04 have after you get married but you're still married.
17:07 OK. So, you're talking about maybe time for dates.
17:10 When's the last time you've been on a date with your spouse?
17:13 Intentional dates. When you get around to it,
17:17 is that what you're saying? That instead of that, then you
17:19 have to have planned - yes - time together.
17:22 Yes. Now, that's when you pull out your PDA and you mark down
17:26 this time is for... and it cannot be scratched over.
17:30 OK. Or, you pull out your cell phone - because it has an
17:33 organizer in it - and you can have an alarm that goes off
17:36 and says "This time belongs to... MY HONEY,
17:39 MY SWEETIE, whatever that pet name is. "
17:43 OK. So, that's the kind of time that doesn't allow the
17:48 interruptions and on that time period, or within that time
17:53 period, do we make sure also that there is no problem
17:58 with interruptions from others?
18:01 It's date time. What do you do on dates? DATE!
18:06 OK. So, we're talking about a time that we give to each other
18:11 exclusive of anyone else.
18:14 Exactly. All right, so that's an important part of building
18:19 intimacy. YES. You can't have it...
18:22 Unless it's bleeding profusely - um hmm - or on fire,
18:25 it's not an emergency. OK.
18:27 Well, you've heard that. Have you had some time recently
18:30 and have you planned some time intentionally to spend
18:36 with your spouse? It doesn't have to be a lot of money
18:39 exchanged... even though it's nice to do something
18:42 that costs a little bit, that you invest in.
18:44 Because I can think of no better investment than to invest
18:48 in the one you love.
18:50 Hmmm. I like that!
18:51 But anyway, moving on to the next component...
18:54 and then there's that word again: commitment.
18:57 You have to be in it for the long haul.
19:01 It can't be "Baby, baby, I love you but I'll be over
19:05 tonight if it doesn't rain. "
19:06 That doesn't sound like much commitment to me!
19:10 In some of these times right now, you wouldn't be over
19:13 for very much, would you? Not at all.
19:16 In other words, rainy days should not allow you
19:21 to have a... no time available for you.
19:27 Because there are rainy days in our lives.
19:29 I know you have rainy days.
19:31 There are rainy days in our lives when things just happen
19:34 that we hadn't planned for, and it makes it very difficult
19:37 to manage the job or manage the children
19:40 or manage some things that are going on in our lives.
19:43 So, there's got to be a commitment for me toward you
19:48 that is above and beyond the rainy days.
19:51 When the rainy days are over, then we have to make up for it.
19:54 And there are definitely rainy days in marriages.
19:58 So, if there isn't that commitment through the
20:01 rainy days to hold me, to put up the umbrella,
20:05 to bring out the rain coat, we're in trouble.
20:08 OK. So, it's not only time, we are talking about a commitment
20:13 to be there... BE THERE...
20:17 Don't be somewhere else when you need to be there.
20:21 Or don't run when you see the tough times coming. Wow!
20:24 Yeah, I guess we can create some moments, can't we?
20:28 Things can come up all of a sudden that I need to do
20:31 because I'm uncomfortable. There's going to come a time
20:34 in a marriage, and we'll talk about that along the way,
20:38 when there are no more children to occupy your time
20:42 or when there's retirement or a job.
20:45 What's going to happen then if you haven't made a commitment
20:48 now - exactly - to love the person you're with
20:52 and that you are in love with and creating those special
20:57 moments for? Better yet, in like with.
20:59 In like with as well as in love - yes - with.
21:02 OK. Well, that takes care of that. What's next?
21:04 Humor! Ahhh, I can understand that!
21:09 Can you now? Oh, yeah! Laughter makes the heart
21:12 grow merrier. Yes, and life is serious.
21:17 Um-hmm. But we sometimes take ourselves far too
21:19 seriously, and so consequently
21:23 there's not a lot of laughter
21:25 and humor in our relationships.
21:28 And sometimes Christians are very, very poor at humor.
21:33 Oh, really? Yes!
21:35 Because I think they don't think God has a sense of humor.
21:39 Well, I think that is too bad because I love to laugh.
21:44 I love to have a merry heart
21:47 and to have an enjoyable time.
21:49 I guess I see too many
21:52 Christians who don't look very happy to begin with.
21:56 I think you're right. But, you know, I know that
21:58 God has a sense of humor
22:00 because I look at myself every morning in the mirror.
22:02 And you laugh? Oh, definitely!
22:05 And I know God must too! You think He laughs with you?
22:07 Oh, yes. And relationships that don't have a sense of humor
22:12 are in trouble. OK. Now, there are a lot of things that are
22:16 to be said about that because they are beginning to discover
22:19 even among physical science, MD's,
22:24 as well as those who are in the social sciences,
22:28 that there are things that are emitted in our system
22:34 when our brain is happy.
22:37 You mean endorphins?
22:40 Endorphins, yes. Yeah!
22:43 Things that we work hard trying to get so we feel good.
22:46 You can have them for free... just laugh!
22:48 That's right! They are also a healing potion. Yes.
22:53 I have seen situations that have been very difficult,
22:55 and when a couple has at least one of them in there who is
22:59 willing to make light of themselves -
23:01 never make light of the other person -
23:02 exactly - you make light of yourself - then you are able to
23:07 recover quite well, quite gracefully,
23:11 when you are handling something very sensitive
23:14 and very difficult. And to laugh together is the beginning of
23:19 that relationship all over again. It creates something
23:21 brand new that's very special. That's right.
23:23 And the fourth component is one that I think we very often
23:29 forget, and that's flexibility.
23:31 Because it means no one gets everything they want
23:35 all of the time. Now I lived in a house
23:39 with two sisters. I know that.
23:42 I couldn't have made it out if I tried to get my way
23:45 all the time. Well, I think that when we first got married
23:50 I had a few things to learn... being kind of the only...
23:55 And... One of the only children.
23:59 Yes. My parents raised two only children. They were kind of
24:01 confused, and being kind of strong-willed with someone
24:05 else who was quietly... Are you strong-willed?
24:08 Oh, yes. Oh, my. And you, too!
24:10 Oh, am I? Just quietly so! Oh, OK.
24:13 It was kind of a tug-of-war for us there for a while.
24:17 Um-hmm. But I learned that if we were going to be in this
24:20 marriage for more than 5 minutes nobody was going to get
24:25 everything they wanted all of the time.
24:27 Well, let's count the cost. That 5 minutes has turned into
24:31 40 years, and I think I've gotten enough of what I needed
24:36 because, of course, I've gotten you... and that was a bonus!
24:40 Hmmm. I wasn't born with you. I was given that as a gift,
24:43 remember? Yes. So we have something special
24:46 to give to each other if we will allow that...
24:49 You are saying if we would allow the other person to
24:52 get their way, we create a joy and a satisfaction
24:56 in seeing the other person joyful and happy and receiving
25:01 for a change. It's better to give than to receive.
25:07 It sounds like a spiritual principle... yes...
25:09 that fits right in here. And those kinds of moments
25:12 create intimacy. Isn't that right?
25:14 They definitely do.
25:16 And you certainly can't have humor if you don't have
25:18 flexibility. Well, you know, with the humor,
25:23 with the flexibility - sometimes getting your way,
25:26 sometimes the other person getting their way - it sounds
25:30 like we are giving gifts to each other on a regular basis.
25:33 Something good and very special
25:35 that creates an intimate setting.
25:38 Now, we haven't talked a lot about sex, but I can imagine
25:42 that with all of those four elements and a real commitment
25:45 to marriage going, that it wouldn't take too much,
25:49 would it, for the sexuality to be increased?
25:52 Sex is a natural gift out of those four components. Ahhh.
25:56 Because a relationship that is built on true intimacy
26:00 then sex is a natural gift.
26:03 So, the sexuality rises out of those elements of intimacy
26:08 and because sexual intimacy that is par excellence;
26:13 It is on a level above and beyond most.
26:17 Yes. All right. Well, that's something worth working toward,
26:19 don't you think? I think so!
26:20 We can work on it together.
26:22 Let's pray together and ask God for help in developing
26:26 an intimacy that God would approve of.
26:29 Loving Father in Heaven: Thank you so much
26:32 for our being able to share with one another and
26:35 give to one another and exercise these elements of intimacy
26:39 because we want most of all to be intimate with you
26:43 but we also want to share that with one another
26:46 and create a wonderful marriage.
26:49 Thank you so much for your love,
26:51 In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.
26:56 We hope that you have been able to sit next to that person
27:01 that you are in a relationship with while we have been
27:04 talking about some of these things... some of them
27:07 happening in our lives... but we are sure that some of them
27:10 have happened in yours. It's good to go back and talk
27:13 about some of those moments because you have had them.
27:16 But putting them together intentionally in order to create
27:20 an intimate environment will help to re-create your marriage.
27:25 So, let's re-define intimacy.
27:28 Let's take it away from Hollywood.
27:29 Let's give it to Christ and make Him the center of our joy.
27:34 And then His joy will become our joy.
27:38 We are hoping for the joyful reunion of your marriage
27:42 with Christ.