Participants: Alane Waters, Tom Waters
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000025
00:31 Welcome to Marriage Heart to Heart!
00:33 We're Tom & Alane Waters with Restoration International
00:36 We hope you have a paper and pencil. We're gonna be talking
00:39 about the ways that we can develop mutually
00:42 meaningful intimacy in our marriages.
00:45 Sounds like a great topic! - It's a very important topic!
00:48 It's something that we've been developing
00:49 more and more over the years.
00:52 You feel that our intimacy is mutually meaningful?
00:57 Absolutely! It gets better all the time!
01:00 Why am I emphasizing the word mutually?
01:04 Because, sometimes in marriages it's not mutually
01:08 meaningful to both people.
01:09 - That's right! - I think there are many women
01:11 today who suffer because their husband
01:15 is more interested in that sexual act than in developing
01:19 the intimacy that's important to a woman.
01:21 That's right!
01:22 And really intimacy is important not just to the woman.
01:26 I found in my own experience
01:29 that even though it tends to be view that way
01:32 that the closeness and all the
01:35 things that happen through the day
01:37 it makes it more meaningful for me as well
01:40 to have that mutually meaningful intimacy.
01:44 So we're gonna be talking about
01:46 several areas today
01:48 because in many marriages as we have the opportunity to
01:53 work with many couples,
01:55 it has degenerated to a sexual act.
01:59 And that's how many people view intimacy today.
02:02 And it's partly because of the busyness of the lifestyles
02:05 that we live in, in this world today.
02:07 But I hope as we go through today's program,
02:10 that you'll see that there is mutually meaningful intimacy
02:16 for the marriage relation!
02:18 The sexual act is just one aspect of intimacy.
02:21 It's the whole intimate relationship
02:24 it's based on learning to be one with each other
02:27 and developing respect - That's right!
02:29 for the other person in the marriage!
02:31 And learning how to be restrained and knowing how
02:33 to say "I'm sorry" and "I forgive you" or
02:37 "Would you forgive me?"
02:38 That's all a part of the intimacy
02:40 that becomes mutually beneficial to both of us.
02:43 That's right!
02:45 When the Bible talks about "the two shall become one"
02:49 when it talks about that oneness for me
02:52 as a man it's very important that I'm doing
02:56 everything that I can do through the day,
03:00 through the experience of marriage,
03:02 to make that oneness with you what it really can be.
03:06 That I'm truly reaching out to you, meaning the needs outside
03:11 of that special relationship that happens
03:15 as a combination of real love and real closeness that
03:18 through the day I am meeting your needs.
03:21 That you can depend on me, that you can lean
03:24 upon my affections; that you can
03:26 count on me to be there for you.
03:28 And when that's happening, when I'm giving you time
03:31 to communicate, when I'm listening to you
03:34 listening with my heart and not just
03:37 my head, listening to understand all those things
03:41 prepare the way for true intimacy.
03:45 I know that, that has really grown in our relationship and
03:49 it has brought such comfort and such security in our marriage
03:53 knowing that that's how you really feel
03:55 and I sense it all day long.
03:57 We don't have to necessarily be together
03:59 to know that that's there. And it really strengthens me
04:03 and my relationship to you and it makes me desire
04:05 to want to be more for you than I am today
04:09 or than I was yesterday, today and tomorrow
04:12 to even be more for you than I am today.
04:14 And one of the things in that intimacy that
04:17 is very important to me is our communication.
04:20 You know, there's' times that I just like to talk about things
04:23 and I like your opinion about things and you don't always
04:26 care about what I wanna ask you like, you know:
04:30 "Which pillow do you think looks better on the couch?"
04:32 "This one or this one?"
04:33 And it's amazing, those little interaction between us,
04:38 when you're willing to
04:40 hear and give your opinion even though you
04:43 could care less about it makes our intimacy
04:46 more mutually meaningful.
04:48 And you know, well I like that when sometimes you say:
04:50 "Well why do you ask me? Because you really have
04:52 a preference. " But sometimes I don't!
04:54 Or picking the checks you know, we've picked checks together
04:57 What kind of, you know, pattern doing one on those.
05:00 You know, it's fun! Those little things make a huge difference!
05:03 So, the message here, there's nothing intimate about
05:06 picking checks together right? - That's no!
05:09 There's nothing intimate about getting my opinion on
05:11 what pillow looks better on the couch.
05:14 Really, what you're saying is that in every aspect of the life
05:19 that you'd like to have an interaction
05:22 that's mutually meaningful together.
05:25 So that if that's happening
05:27 then it makes what most people focus on as the intimacy
05:32 more fulfilling. Because we're together in every aspect
05:36 of life. You know, there's a reference in Ephesians 4
05:41 in verse 2 it says: "With all lowliness and meekness,"
05:45 Right there that's tough for men, those words lowliness
05:49 and meekness. Because today everything in society
05:52 and I speak in general terms here, but everything in society
05:56 tends to push men to a different image.
05:59 Lowliness and meekness doesn't seem to fit
06:02 for the society that we live in.
06:04 And yet what this is talking about, meekness is in no way
06:07 aligned with, with a weakness in men.
06:11 Meekness is really allowing myself as a man to be sensitive
06:14 to Christ! And there by to become sensitive to you!
06:18 The verse goes on and says:
06:20 "with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;"
06:25 That forbearing, that means that when you're asking me
06:29 to look at the checks
06:32 I could care less about the pattern on the checks.
06:34 Ok? As long as I can read the writing
06:37 that needs to go on the checks.
06:38 But what I'm doing when I enter into that with you
06:42 is I'm setting aside just how I view things.
06:45 We've learned so much in this intimacy of getting away
06:48 from the "me focus", which we've talked about
06:51 in this series a few times, the different aspects.
06:53 Getting away from the "me focus"
06:56 and looking at the "us focus"
06:58 in every aspect of our marriage.
07:01 And when that happens and I do that and you do that
07:04 it leads to the culmination of the intimate
07:09 response in a marriage, that privilege that God
07:12 has given a husband and wife to have and to enjoy together.
07:16 But it all starts early in the day!
07:18 It starts by respecting - That's right!
07:20 each other and be interested in each other.
07:22 And the more that we have that in our relationship
07:26 the more it develops into:
07:28 we just wanna spend more time together!
07:30 And we have a deeper understanding then
07:32 where each other's coming from.
07:34 And we have more tolerance for our mistakes
07:36 in each other! - Yes! Because we're really
07:39 understanding, our hearts are communicating with each other.
07:42 And I think that what we wanna point out to each one of you
07:46 and I hope that this is the experience you're having.
07:49 I hope that you're not just
07:52 viewing the act of intimacy
07:55 in a very isolated compartment. Because if you are
07:59 it's not very fulfilling. And I know especially for a woman
08:04 you know, what's the contrast.
08:06 You know, it's not very fulfilling if this meaningful
08:09 intimacy isn't being extended into all aspects of the day.
08:14 Well, the woman feels used. She feels like she's an object
08:17 that has to perform a certain act or has to be there
08:20 at a certain time to meet a sexual drive in her husband.
08:24 That's not any part of her! She has no desire
08:27 to participate in that. And so she feels victimized in that.
08:31 And it's very, it's very destructive to a marriage.
08:35 It destroys love, pure love. It doesn't force, it doesn't
08:39 take advantage of pure love gives. And as we give
08:44 we give back, we receive and it becomes
08:46 mutually a blessing to both! - That's right!
08:48 So, if that woman feels that way,
08:51 and I'm thankful that, you know, even though
08:53 we didn't understand this early on,
08:56 you never felt to that degreed but as you
09:00 reached out to me.
09:02 Sometimes we've talked to women that when they start
09:06 feeling victimized or as one woman put it to us recently
09:10 she was fearful because she felt like she was coming to
09:14 the close of the day and she knew
09:15 what her husband was expecting.
09:17 And she was almost fearful of that experience.
09:20 What can you do, as a wife in that situation
09:23 other then just withdraw and clam up to reach out
09:28 to help the husband in that situation to
09:32 want to participate mutually in that experience?
09:35 I think it's for us as women
09:37 that we have to go beyond how we're feeling at the moment.
09:41 And we have to recognize, maybe it's a weakness
09:44 in our husband, that he has; and to really love him
09:48 with a godly love, even in the act of intimacy.
09:51 And from that point encourage the interaction in the day
09:57 and start giving him positive comments
10:00 of what she appreciates about him. Or if he flares-up
10:03 and speaks in angry tones:
10:05 "Honey I know that that's really not how you feel in your heart!"
10:08 "And I love you! And I want you to know that I love you!"
10:11 That kind of response will help to break down
10:15 the drive in the man just to get his physical needs met.
10:19 And it will help to soften him to see what a gift
10:23 God has given him in a wife like that who's willing
10:27 to do all she can do for him. - Yes! And I think one
10:30 of the things that's been a blessing in our marriage
10:34 is the way that you have been willing to understand
10:39 me and some of my stresses and some of the pressures.
10:41 Because you've said to me many times:
10:44 It doesn't matter what you're doing in the day.
10:47 You can be thinking about me!
10:50 Now I don't understand exactly how that works
10:52 because I become very focused on what I'm working on
10:56 whatever the project is or you know,
10:58 whatever I'm involved in, whether counseling
11:00 or writing a message or;
11:02 You seem to be able to integrate both.
11:05 And you've been very sensitive to me to entreat me
11:10 and to draw me in a positive way, in an encouraging way
11:15 so that I can let go of some of the things.
11:18 And I believe a lot of men out there today, and maybe
11:21 I could say this for women too, but speaking for men
11:24 we have so many pressures that we face in dealing
11:27 with real life issues. We can be so burdened
11:30 in so many directions that we come to the end of the day
11:34 and it's only then that we switch gears.
11:37 And I've seen that if I'm willing to make my wife
11:41 a priority and communicate that to her, it doesn't have to be
11:44 through big things and it doesn't have to take large
11:47 portions of time; that, that response becomes mutually
11:50 encouraging to one another.
11:53 And I think for us as women, we have the opportunity
11:56 to nurture that in them. We shouldn't condemn them
11:59 because they don't think about us
12:02 the way we may think about them.
12:04 We can do things to encourage that in a positive way.
12:07 And how we respond, even getting up and having
12:10 a nice breakfast for him in the morning.
12:12 And taking time to help him with a simple project that
12:17 he needs to get done. Or putting a little note in his lunch
12:19 if he's gonna be gone all day. Or leaving a message
12:22 on his cell phone to say: "I'm just thinking about you honey. "
12:24 "And I just want you to know I really love you!"
12:27 "And I'm looking forward to you coming home today!"
12:29 It prepares our mind in a positive way
12:31 for what can take place in the evening hours.
12:35 And it also gives him the opportunity to know
12:38 that your heart is a safe place for him!
12:40 And in spite of his weaknesses, in spite of his
12:44 central focus or one point focus he can
12:50 receive your love through that in an understanding heart.
12:54 So, we need to create an environment.
12:56 We need to work to create an environment.
12:58 If I don't like some of the things that you're doing
13:00 or I don't think you're sensitive to me in some areas
13:04 or vice versa we can do much to create an environment
13:07 that is mutually meaningful which will lead to
13:10 a very mutual experience in that privilege of marriage
13:15 that often gets focused on alone.
13:17 Well, we need to take a break right now
13:20 and when we come back we're gonna talk about
13:22 some other ways that we can make
13:24 our intimacy mutually meaningful! Stay with us!
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14:13 Welcome back! We were talking about how we can make
14:17 our intimacy mutually meaningful for
14:21 each within the marriage.
14:23 And I wanna just go back to something that
14:25 we talked about a little bit.
14:27 You know the pressures, the job pressures,
14:31 the financial pressures, the daily life we live in;
14:34 and I don't think anybody will be surprised to hear me
14:37 say this is moving faster and faster.
14:40 And the pressures are increasing.
14:42 And I think most people, at least the polls that we get as
14:46 we talk to people and as we look around us
14:48 is just an increasing pressure.
14:51 Wouldn't you say that's true honey?
14:52 - Absolutely! - And I think one of the
14:53 things that we see happening is in that kind of situation
14:59 that tends to kill love!
15:03 Not that we intentionally say, well:
15:05 "I don't wanna have time for my wife!" or;
15:08 It's not that at all! It's that we just find ourselves
15:11 being robbed of that time that builds love.
15:14 And so, what ends up happening is that the
15:16 the intimacy in marriage either becomes almost non existent
15:20 and there's a separation that occurs or that love
15:26 that's not being nurtured turns into lust,
15:31 lust dominating the intimacy and this is not fulfilling
15:36 really to either husband or wife.
15:39 One of the things that's been helpful to us is to recognize
15:42 that we have to not fill our days so full
15:46 that we have no time for each other.
15:48 And that was not easy for us at the beginning! I mean
15:51 We're do it people, we're go oriented and we're driven.
15:55 And we have responsibilities for raising a family, we have
15:59 you know real challenges and bills that need to be met and;
16:03 - And they're good things! - They're all good things!
16:05 It's not like we taking something that's terrible!
16:06 That's right! And it's part of life but we have
16:09 to put some controls on that. - That's right!
16:12 And we began to say: We're going to not fill our days so
16:16 full, we're gonna leave off
16:19 the evening hours for us as a family!
16:21 - Yes! - And for us together
16:22 as a couple there has to be time every day to build
16:27 our relationship that's not just built in an act of
16:31 intimacy at night! - That's right!
16:33 And that not filling our days so full has been a tremendous
16:37 blessing to develop more mutually meaningful intimacy.
16:40 And I think we need to encourage each of you
16:44 it's going to be a choice to carve out that time
16:47 so that you have time in the day.
16:50 Or in the evening whenever it fits for both of your schedules
16:55 to have time together so that when the evening hours come
16:59 and it's time to go to bed that you are together in heart
17:03 and you're together in your love!
17:05 And it makes it much more enjoyable.
17:08 That's right! Much more fulfilling!
17:10 - Much more meaningful! - That's right!
17:13 Mutually meaningful intimacy!
17:16 You know, there may be some, some out there who are
17:19 saying: "That's great! I mean I like what you're saying! But
17:24 we're passed that point! I don't have any feelings
17:28 left for my husband or for my wife! "
17:31 You know, you may find yourself in a position
17:35 that is devastating and yet you know that
17:39 separation, divorce is not where God is leading you.
17:43 And that He wants to rebuild your marriage!
17:46 You know, there's a verse that's for all of us!
17:49 But if you're in that situation let me share
17:52 this verse with you. It's taken from John 15.
17:56 This is a command of our Lord in verse 17 it says:
18:00 "These things I command you, that ye love one another. "
18:06 I like the fact that Jesus is commanding us here!
18:09 He's commanding us to love one another!
18:11 I thought that happens spontaneously! Isn't it?
18:13 Yes! And He's saying: Look if you don't have love right now
18:16 it still needs to happen!
18:18 And obviously He's giving us the opportunity
18:23 to fulfill that command! But there's
18:24 some things that need to happen!
18:26 And what I wanna encourage our viewers with today
18:29 is: you have made commitments
18:32 to make so many things in your life work.
18:35 You've made commitments to meet the financial pressures
18:39 that you face to pay your bills, to meet your mortgage
18:42 to do whatever you need to do on that line.
18:45 You've made commitments to found the education
18:48 of your children, to get them to school on time.
18:51 You've made commitments to be successful in your work!
18:54 Maybe you own your own business or
18:57 you work for someone but you have made commitments that
18:59 are almost automatic
19:01 The Devil hates marriage! He hates that union because
19:06 rightly understood and rightly entered into it
19:09 it is the union that represents Christ
19:12 to His people, the union of Christ and His Church.
19:15 And so, the Devil works harder! And I wanna encourage you,
19:18 we wanna encourage you today that you
19:21 would do something similar to all the other commitments
19:25 that you've made and you say:
19:28 "I will not let this go!"
19:30 Not just the act! Not just that privilege of marriage,
19:34 not just the intimacy, but that you will make time
19:38 that you will commit time to rebuilding the marriage.
19:41 If there's no feeling left in you
19:43 God can rekindle those feelings! Can He honey?
19:46 Absolutely! He can do it in me! He can do it in you!
19:49 But I can't do it in you! - That's right!
19:52 So I have to cooperate with God to make that choice!
19:55 And that's what our responsibility is! Each one
19:57 in the marriage, whether a husband or a wife
20:00 that it's the choices that I have to make
20:03 or that you have to make! I can't wait for you
20:05 so that my feelings come back!
20:07 - Yes! - I have to work! I have to
20:09 to choose to let God put those feelings in my heart for you!
20:14 And let God change the way I think and the way I feel!
20:19 And then I can respond to you differently!
20:21 And then that actually encourages you
20:23 to develop those feelings to me, for me
20:26 that I'm desirous of having!
20:28 Yes! And I've seen that so many times in action
20:31 and in our home!
20:33 Because when you're thinking in those terms for me
20:36 which you often do and we've learned over the years
20:39 the blessing of doing that;
20:41 many times you'll do something very special,
20:45 very simple but it's an expression.
20:48 You know, you may put candles on the table or
20:51 you may do some little touches like that.
20:53 And that gives me a message!
20:57 And that message is that you're thinking about me!
21:01 And if I don't happen to be thinking about you,
21:04 I don't happen to have my focus there,
21:06 that brings me back to that!
21:09 And it's like: "Oh yes!"
21:12 "This is why our lives are so mutually meaningful!"
21:18 "This is how my wife thinks of me!"
21:21 'Cause I may be completely off in some other world.
21:24 And that's not wrong!
21:26 But this brings me back
21:28 again and gets me thinking about you
21:31 and wanting to interact with you!
21:34 That's why you don't mind when I sit on the bed
21:36 and watch you work, do you? - That's right!
21:38 Not that I don't have other things to do myself
21:41 but sometimes when I'm busy and you know, your desk
21:43 and your office where you do all your counseling is
21:46 downstairs in our bedroom, your desk is there. And so
21:49 I may be folding laundry or something and I'll just come
21:51 in the room and sit down the bed, just sit there
21:53 and watch you for a few minutes. And you know,
21:56 it's not to distract you from work, it's just to
21:58 spend a little time with you, to be in your presence.
22:02 And, you know, there's my heart good and I see that
22:05 it used to bug you but now you kind of enjoy it, don't you?
22:09 Yes! Well, it used to kind of bother me, because
22:12 I couldn't really understand how can you be
22:15 so interested in the midst of the heat of the day
22:19 with all the things going on,
22:20 interested just to come down and sit on the bed
22:24 and look at me! That used to really, it's like:
22:27 "How can that be?" because I'm such a one track person.
22:31 But some of that has encouraged me
22:34 over the years to be able to say:
22:36 "Lord, make me sensitive today!
22:39 In the midst of all the things that I need to do
22:43 that do need to be done,
22:44 make me sensitive!" And you've been amazed
22:47 that times at the things that God, His little promptings
22:51 that He has made me aware of to come up and just
22:54 give you a little gentle hug or a little kiss on the cheek or
22:59 put my arms around you just to encourage you.
23:02 That has quite an impact doesn't it?
23:04 It has a huge impact! Just to be standing at the sink
23:06 and doing the dishes and the next thing I know
23:08 out of the blue you come up behind me and put your arms
23:11 around me and give me a kiss on the neck!
23:12 And it just, you know, it takes all of what
23:14 10 or 15 seconds at the most?
23:17 But it can change the focus, my focus and your focus
23:22 toward one another instead of just getting through the day
23:24 and doing all the things that we have to get done in the day.
23:27 That's right! And I think, you know, what we want
23:31 you to come aware with as we've talked about this,
23:35 those are little messages that we give to each other.
23:39 It's not sentimentalism! It's saying: "I care about you!"
23:43 The reason I married you
23:46 is because there's no one else in the world
23:48 that I wanna be with! There's no one else
23:51 that I wanna spend my life with!
23:53 So if we can take that and put that in the perspective
23:56 what are we saying?
23:58 That, that person, the only time we're gonna have
24:01 for them is for that special privilege of marriage and
24:04 it's just gonna be, you know,
24:07 a focus there? No!
24:09 The message is that I care for you!
24:12 That I want to meet your needs
24:16 in every aspect of life.
24:18 And that's been very powerful! I tell you we don't know
24:22 how marriage can continue to get any better!
24:25 But does it get better? - It does!
24:27 It just, sometimes I tell you I don't know
24:29 how can it be any better! And sometimes I feel
24:32 so much love for you I can't even express it!
24:34 I have more there than it can come out!
24:36 But it's that heart, that's what mutually meaningful
24:39 intimacy is that heart connection.
24:42 - Yes! - When that is there
24:43 our hearts are connected: marriage heart to heart,
24:46 then the act of intimacy, that marriage privilege
24:50 is meaningful to both of us! And it's what we wanna do!
24:54 We wanna express ourselves in that ultimate.
24:57 Yes! So, we wanna encourage the people then
24:59 that if that's not there,
25:02 if it's not there because you're too busy;
25:05 if it's not there because you've got too much going on
25:08 in your life and you haven't been able to nurture love;
25:12 if it's not there because you've been fighting too much;
25:16 Maybe the reason you're fighting so much is because
25:18 you haven't made the one that God has put by your side
25:22 important enough in your life!
25:24 And God wants to change that!
25:26 And that can begin to change right now!
25:30 Right now, on this very day, that can begin to change!
25:34 So we need to renew our vows!
25:37 Maybe nor verbally but in our hearts!
25:39 - Amen! - To renew that love
25:41 that romance, that oneness, that closeness with each other.
25:45 That's right! And if, again, if that seems foreign to you,
25:49 if you don't feel like doing that
25:51 the Lord Jesus Christ,
25:54 the One Who we say is the Lord of our lives,
25:57 Savior of our lives will save us
26:00 to the outermost if we'll come to Him!
26:02 He will give us that if we will pray for it!
26:04 If you will specifically begin to pray for the things
26:07 that are not working for you God will begin
26:10 to specifically answer those prayers and bring
26:13 that mutually meaningful intimacy back into
26:16 all of your marriage which will culminate in the beautiful union
26:20 the physical union of the two becoming one.
26:23 The two of us need to become one in Christ! Don't we first?
26:26 As we become one in Christ together
26:29 then He leads us to that mutually meaningful intimacy
26:33 of the physical union to one another.
26:37 So this is really the personal challenge!
26:39 We may have to lay down the newspaper,
26:42 shut down the computer, get off the phone or turn of the TV
26:45 to have that time! - That's right!
26:47 You know, it isn't gonna necessarily be easy or automatic
26:50 We need the Lord to give us the grace to do it!
26:53 - We do! - So let's go to Him right now!
26:55 Father in Heaven we thank You for the opportunity
26:57 to come to You with all of our needs!
27:00 We need You to make our marriages
27:03 mutually meaningful in their intimacy!
27:06 And we thank You that You'll do this for us as we
27:08 turn our hearts to You! In Jesus name Amen!
27:13 Well, we look forward to having you join us next time
27:18 as we talk about making our marriages
27:21 heart to heart, heart to heart with God
27:25 first, which provide the way for us to be heart to heart
27:29 with the one He's given us to stand by our sides!
27:33 We know the difference He's made in our lives
27:36 and we know you want that difference in yours!
27:40 So join us next time on Marriage Heart to Heart!