Participants: Tom Waters, Alane Waters
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000022
00:01 A promise
00:03 to love
00:06 in good times
00:08 and bad
00:11 for richer
00:14 or poorer
00:17 forsaking all others
00:19 as long as
00:21 you both shall live
00:25 MARRIAGE In God's Hands
00:26 Marriage Heart to Heart with Tom and Alane Waters
00:31 Welcome to Marriage Heart to Heart!
00:33 We're Tom & Alane Waters with Restoration International
00:36 Today we're going to be talking about
00:39 when counseling is necessary.
00:41 We want to look at three vital keys in counseling
00:43 so we hope that you have a paper and pencil.
00:46 So is counseling necessary sometimes?
00:49 It is, sometimes necessary!
00:51 You know, the sad thing is, is that many people
00:54 go to too many of the wrong people to get counseling
00:57 when it really isn't necessary.
01:00 They just really want to tell their story to somebody.
01:04 So we want to talk about today when it's necessary
01:08 and how to go about getting the right kind of counsel
01:11 when it is necessary.
01:13 You know, sometimes honey, people feel inadequate.
01:16 They just don't feel like they're equipped,
01:18 that the problems may not be all that big
01:20 and every problem is resolvable through Christ.
01:23 But some people feel inadequate or they feel
01:27 the pain is too great, the hurt is too deep.
01:31 Some people don't feel that they can express themselves right.
01:37 I remember a couple that came to,
01:40 actually came to me at one of our family camps.
01:44 And I remember the desperation in his voice
01:48 and he said: " I feel like we need counseling!"
01:53 He was desperate to get help and he said:
01:56 "But I don't wan to break the sacred circle!"
01:59 "I know that there is a sacred circle around every home!"
02:03 And he said: "I want to be sensitive not to do that!"
02:07 And so he said: "I feel like we need counseling
02:09 but I don't know if my wife really wants to get counseling
02:14 and I'm afraid of going outside of that family circle!
02:19 I'm afraid of breaking it by going to someone! "
02:22 He said: "Can you tell me what should I do?"
02:26 And I said: "Well, I certainly respect you
02:29 for not wanting to break that sacred circle! "
02:31 Too many people today are breaking that sacred circle,
02:34 unnecessarily bringing friends and family
02:37 in that can't really help them!
02:39 I said: "But if you are at a point
02:40 in your marriage where you
02:42 are not finding the answers and things are going to
02:46 what we call the fatal cycle and the communication
02:50 is getting more and more difficult. "
02:52 Then I said: " If you're gong to break that sacred circle
02:55 from within then you need to consider that it may be
02:59 time to get Godly principled counsel. "
03:04 So he said: "Well, I'm going to go back and talk to my wife!"
03:06 Well, a few hours later, as you remember honey,
03:10 he came back and he said: "We need time together!"
03:13 "Can we set an appointment?" So we
03:15 we set up an appointment and we began to
03:19 share with this couple. And within the first, probably
03:23 few minutes, ten minutes maybe of sharing together
03:27 this woman began to share with us
03:32 that not only was she about to break
03:36 that sacred circle,
03:38 she had already planned her suicide.
03:42 And this was not going to be an attempt!
03:44 It was well planned out!
03:47 Her husband did not have any idea how far
03:51 she had gone in this process and how desperate they were.
03:55 But I thank the Lord that He was sensitive
03:58 that they needed help!
03:59 So that utter helplessness that she experienced
04:02 and that I think he experienced,
04:05 led them to seek counsel. Even though it's not comfortable
04:08 to open up your weaknesses and your problems to someone else.
04:11 Well, let's talk about three areas
04:14 that we need to be sensitive to when we seek counseling.
04:18 This is very important! You know, so often,
04:21 when people want to share about the problems in their marriage
04:26 it's all to tell about how bad the other person is.
04:30 And that is one of the most important keys in counseling
04:35 is that you don't go to the counselor
04:37 to put the other person down! You go to the counselor
04:40 to seek a solution and a resolution.
04:42 - Yes, the story must come out! - That's right!
04:46 But it's not going there to tell all my side of the story;
04:50 to gain sympathy for myself!
04:52 And I think this is one of the greatest
04:55 deadly aspects of counseling or sharing,
04:58 thinking that people are going to be getting counsel
05:01 is that they go to share their
05:05 their experience to gain sympathy for the position.
05:08 Why they are in the mess that they're in their marriage.
05:11 And so the most important thing to start with is that
05:14 when we seek counsel from someone else
05:17 that we go there not to gain sympathy for my position
05:22 but we go to really express
05:25 what's happening from our perspective:
05:27 my husband from his perspective.
05:29 And then that individual is seeking to restore.
05:32 I can remember
05:34 one lady who called and she said:
05:39 "We are in trouble! We are in trouble!"
05:42 She and her husband were separated and
05:45 they were now at the point of fighting
05:47 over who's going to have the child.
05:50 And she wanted help, she wanted counseling.
05:52 She was at the end!
05:54 But she started to share all
05:57 her side of the story to gain sympathy
06:00 for why she chose to walk away from her husband.
06:04 And in that situation
06:06 it's very important that the counselor seeks God
06:09 for direction as well!
06:11 And as I was listening to her I said:
06:13 "Do you really love your husband?"
06:16 And there was this pause on the phone.
06:18 "Well, yes I do!" "- Well
06:21 do you really love your husband? ";
06:23 another long pause:
06:25 "Yes I really do!"
06:27 "And you love him but you're in a separation. Now you're ready
06:30 to consider divorce. You're fighting over a child.
06:33 But yet in your heart you still love your husband. "
06:36 And I shared with her this verse that the Lord showed me
06:39 many years ago, that helped to change
06:41 my position in our marriage. And it was a positive
06:45 influence in our marriage.
06:46 It's found in 1 Corinthians 7:14:
06:48 "the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife"
06:52 - Amen! - Now that unbelieving husband
06:55 isn't necessarily a husband who isn't of the same faith
06:58 or doesn't believe in God.
07:00 It means a husband who is struggling in his own person,
07:03 in his own Christian walk, that he
07:06 isn't really believing in what God can do!
07:09 If the wife will hold on to the Lord she can be
07:12 a tool in God's Hands to change that situation.
07:15 And that husband can be sanctified or brought
07:19 to the Lord through her influence.
07:21 And as I shared that with her that day
07:24 it was very encouraging and she broke down
07:26 and then she started crying and she says:
07:28 "I really don't even want to be separated from my husband!"
07:30 "I just didn't know what to do! My pain and my hurt is so deep
07:33 and his anger is so intense that we just
07:36 separated for survival! "
07:39 And within just a couple of days she was back in the home
07:41 and they were starting to work through things.
07:44 And it was exciting to see! And I challenged her:
07:46 "Pray for God to do a miracle!"
07:48 She says: "You don't understand!"
07:49 "My husband is a workaholic! He works 12-14 hours a day
07:53 5-6 sometimes 7 days a week! "
07:56 You know, no wonder there's stress in the marriage!
07:59 I said: "Just pray that God will put it in his heart!"
08:02 you know, and I encouraged her to attend
08:04 a family camp meeting.
08:05 She said: "There's no way! When is the next one?"
08:07 I said: "Next week!" "No way is this going to happen!"
08:11 And one week later or it was a little longer than a week
08:13 they were there! He, - That's right!
08:15 The Lord provided the opportunity!
08:17 And they are a very happy couple!
08:20 Yes! It's the joy in seeing people
08:23 responding to proper counsel,
08:27 Biblical Godly counsel,
08:30 giving them hope again. Because I remember when, the first
08:33 time you talked to that lady and how hopeless she felt.
08:37 And then in such a short time, within, you know,
08:41 a couple of weeks to see the testimony that they had
08:44 was so powerful!
08:46 As she was allowing God to deal with her hurt
08:50 it was the encouragement her husband needed
08:52 to deal with his anger.
08:54 And they were both being restored simultaneously.
08:57 And it brought a beautiful relationship! I mean the peace
09:01 and the joy that's in the home, the love
09:03 that radiates between them whenever we see them. I mean
09:05 it's just like, you know those love electrons
09:07 are going back and forward. You can just see it
09:10 in their experience. - Yes! And that's what we want
09:13 other people to recognize.
09:15 You can have a marriage that's heart to heart!
09:18 Don't let the Devil tell you that
09:20 it only works for other people, and it can't happen for me
09:23 and my problems are too difficult,
09:26 because there is Life Changing Power
09:30 in the Gospel of Jesus Christ! Power to change your situation
09:34 and to give you solutions to the difficulties that you're facing!
09:38 The second area that we need to talk about is
09:42 "Alright! We need to seek counseling!"
09:46 So, where do we go for counseling?
09:48 I remember one couple that called and they said:
09:52 "You know? We are so afraid of counseling!
09:56 We know the kind of work that your ministry does.
09:59 And we know of some of the results that
10:02 God has blessed with. "
10:04 But they said: "We went to
10:07 our Pastor unfortunately.
10:09 And we thought that we were going to get Godly counsel
10:12 and one week later we came to Church and we find out
10:16 that nearly the entire Church knew the inside story
10:20 of our pain and suffering! "
10:22 That is tragic!
10:24 So, realize that if you've come to a place
10:28 that you need counseling, that you need to then go to someone
10:32 who's going to provide you unbiased counseling.
10:37 They're not your friend and they're going to take your side
10:39 and they're going to say: "Yes! Your husband, your wife or
10:41 or whatever is terrible and you ought to get rid of them!"
10:44 Because we hear a lot of people stories and many times
10:48 they're coming saying:
10:49 "You know, everybody in my Church is telling me
10:52 that I need to get rid of husband! "
10:54 "You're the first person that's telling me
10:56 that there's a solution and that I don't have to get rid of
10:59 my husband! " So you want to go to an unbiased counselor
11:04 in someone that you can be confident
11:07 is not going to tell your story to the other people around.
11:12 Now, there may be times when there may be a family member
11:15 who can truly take that position
11:17 and be unbiased - That's right!
11:19 but it's not very often that that happens.
11:21 And so that's very important that the person
11:24 that is being sought for counseling
11:27 that person has a walk with God and they only
11:30 give counsel based of the principles of God's Word.
11:34 Otherwise we are subject to man's ideas, man's wisdom,
11:38 man's philosophies and psychology
11:41 that always lead to a dead end street!
11:44 They may bring about some
11:46 external changes in the marriage but
11:48 the deeper heart work isn't there! That deep heart work
11:51 only comes from Jesus Christ! And that's why it's important
11:54 that we seek a Christian counselor!
11:58 So, the third area is that it comes from Biblical principles.
12:03 You know, I found that even in counseling with people
12:07 who may not see things exactly the same way or even be
12:12 of our faith or even be calling themselves Christians,
12:17 those people are desirous of what God's Word offers!
12:21 And if we bring that to them in a very personal practical way
12:26 they can see first hand the Power of God's
12:28 Life Changing Word!
12:30 So the first area was:
12:33 "Don't go to a counselor to get sympathy!"
12:35 "Don't go to someone to get sympathy!"
12:37 That's right! - Find a Godly counselor
12:40 who's going to use the third aspect, the third key
12:44 Biblical principles for that counseling!
12:46 Ok! so it's not for self pity and sympathy.
12:50 It's finding someone that you can have confidence in
12:53 that's got a demonstrated walk with God
12:56 and is abiding with those principles.
12:59 And then you can see that the counsel that
13:01 they're going to share it's coming from those principles,
13:04 from the principles of God's Word.
13:06 Those three things are very powerful and we've seen
13:10 the effect of those things in many, many peoples lives.
13:14 We need to take a break now!
13:16 When we come back we're going to be talking about
13:19 more of the things that we can experience
13:22 if we need counseling, that can make the life changing
13:25 difference so that we can have a marriage heart to heart!
13:28 Stay with us! We'll be right back!
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14:15 Welcome back! As we're talking about
14:18 when we need counseling
14:20 what do we do?
14:24 I want to just share with you that
14:26 one of the modern psychologies that's out there,
14:29 that's very prevalent
14:31 wants you to rehearse all these things all these things
14:34 that you've gone through. We were at another of our
14:37 family camp meetings and a couple came to us
14:41 and she was having a terrible time working through
14:45 the past. She had been sexually abused as a child
14:48 and in her teenage years.
14:51 And the counseling that she was receiving
14:53 was only making her more fearful,
14:55 it was only making it more alive in her mind
14:58 and more difficult to trust her husband, who was not
15:01 the one that she needed to be distrusting at all!
15:05 He was trying in every way to work through this and
15:07 tenderly bring her through.
15:09 And, you can remember, as we sat with them
15:12 that evening, talking together alone,
15:15 that she was going through a terrible trauma.
15:18 And part of the reason was because of the counseling
15:21 that she had been going through was asking her
15:25 to dig up all the past. Now, the "motives" were good!
15:29 Ok? Dig up all the past, write out as much of it as she could
15:34 remember, then burn it!
15:41 that may sound very good but I wanna tell you
15:43 that I've dealt with more than a few
15:45 that have come from this kind of psychological philosophy
15:51 that we need to bring this stuff all up,
15:53 get it out on the paper,
15:55 process it and burn it!
15:58 But I want to ask you something 'cause
16:00 I know that's true from my wife.
16:02 If she makes a shopping list, a grocery list let's say
16:06 to go to town what do you think happens
16:09 if she walks out the door and forgets her grocery list?
16:13 Here's the question:
16:16 Do you remember better because you've written it down?
16:19 Or would you've been better off not having a list at all
16:23 and never writing anything down?
16:24 What happens in that situation?
16:26 We always remember better what we write down!
16:28 - That's right! - I mean all through school
16:30 we're taught to take notes so we remember what we've heard.
16:32 - That's right! - And so this idea of
16:34 writing everything that's been bad in your life
16:37 and write it down how you felt about it and who
16:40 the people were and what happened in detail
16:42 only brings it very vivid. It has to be relived, relived,
16:47 relived in the mind! - That's right!
16:49 And it's not easily forgotten!
16:52 And I know that it made it difficult for this lady
16:56 because all of the distrust of the past,
17:01 because of the pain she went through and the trauma
17:03 she went through with men made it very difficult
17:05 for her to believe that her husband really loved her!
17:09 Because she had never experienced true love!
17:11 All through childhood and her teenage years
17:14 prior to her marriage she never experienced
17:16 pure holy love a man would give a woman.
17:20 And so, it made it very difficult for her to believe
17:22 it was possible. And the battle was very great in her mind.
17:26 That's right!
17:28 Well, let's talk about the Biblical principle
17:30 because we believe that God's Word has a solution
17:35 to every problem.
17:37 It has a principle or a group of principles that we can go to
17:41 to help formulate what do we do in these situations.
17:46 Philippians 3 the 13th and 14h verses says that
17:51 "forgetting those things which are behind"
17:54 - Doing what? - Forgetting them!
17:56 Don't recall them! Don't bring them back!
17:58 - Don't rehearse them! - Don't rehearse them!
18:00 But "forgetting those things which are behind,
18:03 and reaching forth unto those things which are before"
18:07 What would that mean?
18:09 "Reaching forth unto the things which are before"?
18:11 That means looking for the new things that in thins case
18:16 her husband was trying to offer her.
18:19 - The reality of what - That's right!
18:21 he had in his heart for her! He truly loved her!
18:24 The past, he wasn't interested in her past!
18:26 He loved her for who she was! - That's right!
18:29 And that's where she had to put her thoughts!
18:31 Yes! And then it goes on and it says:
18:34 "I press toward the mark for the prize
18:37 of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. "
18:42 It's Christ that will help us go through this process.
18:45 And it is for the prize and of course, this verse
18:49 talks about the ultimate prize that's out there for us,
18:52 the eternal life, receiving the Crown of Life.
18:55 But it's also talking about a process here
18:58 that we can experience, that we can go through together
19:01 with the Lord. He will help us forget!
19:04 And one of the ways that He helps us forget
19:06 is He gives us better thoughts to think!
19:08 - That's right! - He gives us a new way of
19:10 of dealing with instead of living in the old lies
19:13 He gives us the truth of the present circumstances
19:16 that we can build up on and grow into.
19:19 That's why I think He tells us through the Apostle Paul
19:22 that we need to think on those things that are
19:25 pure, holy, just good and lovely.
19:29 That's what we need to spend our time dwelling on.
19:31 It doesn't mean that we ignore real needs
19:34 but some of the old past, the things that we failed in.
19:37 Or that we'd been taken advantage of
19:40 or ravaged by in the past.
19:42 We can leave those thoughts behind and
19:45 choose to think on what is truth, what is reality!
19:49 And for her, for her reality was
19:52 her husband really loved and cared for her!
19:54 And she developed trust in him.
19:56 And she developed respect for him as a man!
19:59 And their marriage grew beautifully!
20:00 And she trusted him!
20:02 And you could see the difference. I mean they just
20:04 blossomed as a couple when that took place!
20:07 It's so beautiful because it's nice
20:09 to be able to tell the end of these stories. Because
20:12 these are real people. These are not stories that we've
20:15 read in a book or heard on a tape. These are real people
20:18 that we know who's lives have been
20:22 eternally changed because of the principles of God's word;
20:26 because they weren't just going for counseling
20:30 to get sympathy. They were coming to receive
20:34 Biblical Godly counseling. They were coming to have
20:38 a confidence that the person that they were talking to,
20:41 that we were not going to share this with anyone else
20:45 as we never do! And so there's hundreds of people
20:49 that would fit this description that we're making right now.
20:52 But these people never have to be concerned
20:56 that their names will ever be used or that they will be
20:58 identified by any particular things that they went through.
21:02 So it's nice to be able to tell the end of these stories
21:04 and to know what that couple and their families
21:07 are experiencing today. Because there's hope
21:10 in the Gospel of Jesus Christ! - There is! There's hope!
21:13 There's power and there's peace!
21:16 And then we experience that joy that God
21:19 wants us to experience in our marriages.
21:21 - Amen! - And that's what's exciting!
21:22 You know, you don't just have to write it down
21:23 though, to remember it, to have it cause those things.
21:26 I remember one woman. Well, this is happened
21:29 more than a few times. You know she,
21:31 she and her husband were in difficulties. And they were
21:34 trying to work it out and then
21:36 they would make progress and then they would,
21:38 she would fall back in some of her old ways of thinking.
21:41 And they were really struggling.
21:42 And finally a dear friend of theirs convinced them to seek
21:46 this particular individual to counsel with.
21:49 And the person came with good recommendations.
21:52 Now, it's interesting that the lady,
21:55 the wife in this situation had a caution.
21:57 And I want to highlight this!
21:58 She wasn't quite comfortable with it
22:00 But because her dear friend suggested
22:02 that she get counseling, she put her trust in that friend
22:05 instead of in the cautions that God had given her.
22:08 So they proceeded with the counseling.
22:11 And at the end of that she said:
22:13 "All he wanted to know is what happened!"
22:15 "What did you go through? How did you feel
22:19 when these were taking place in your life? "
22:22 And at the end of it all she got physically ill
22:27 from having to again relive that past that was so ugly
22:32 and so demoralizing to her.
22:34 She got physically ill and instead of it
22:39 helping her husband to understand where she came from
22:41 because of her response and just having to relive it
22:45 it created a bigger golf between them.
22:47 And they've had to, you know, recover from that
22:51 and begin again, you know.
22:54 There's been things in your past that I don't know about;
22:56 there's been things in my past that you don't know about.
22:59 It doesn't have to change our love for one another!
23:02 And it's not because it wouldn't be a willingness
23:04 to share that past. But we've said to leave that past behind
23:08 if it's not necessary
23:10 for building the future that we need.
23:11 - That's right! - It's not because we've been
23:13 hiding it from each other or that we refuse to talk about it.
23:18 So, we need to challenge you
23:20 again as we've been challenged ourselves
23:23 and as we have been able to encourage other people.
23:26 We need to challenge you that today, if you find
23:29 yourself in a problem that seems unsolvable,
23:35 that you feel like there's, you know,
23:37 "We're just not getting past this! What do we do?"
23:41 Well, stop going to people that can't help you!
23:45 Stop going to friends that will only support your side!
23:48 Stop going just for sympathy to say:
23:52 "I want you to see it my way!"
23:54 All those things won't help you!
23:56 If you find yourself in need of counsel
24:00 then the first thing that you need
24:02 is to let the Lord have your heart to begin with.
24:07 Because if He has your heart
24:11 then He has the position to heal your heart.
24:15 If all you wanna do is change the other person
24:18 it's very difficult, because God wants to change us first.
24:21 Or he wants to begin changing us
24:24 while He then can be changing both of us
24:26 at the same time.
24:28 So we encourage that you start first with the Lord.
24:32 And if you feel that you need help beyond God
24:35 and the Word, that written Word that's there
24:38 then pray earnestly that God will direct you
24:42 to just the person that you need to counsel with.
24:45 And again, go to that person and make sure
24:49 that your story, your experience, your
24:54 situation will be confidential.
24:57 And make sure that they are going to take
25:01 an unbiased position in counseling with you.
25:04 - That's right! - As well as they are going
25:06 to share with you principles from the word of God
25:09 on finding the true solution to heal your marriage.
25:13 That's right!
25:15 Well, He is the Solution!
25:18 - He is the Mighty Counselor! - Amen!
25:22 And He is the one that wants to give us the best!
25:25 He may have to use somebody else!
25:27 But He wants to be our Counselor!
25:30 And I think it would be fitting for us as we
25:32 close this program to go to the Mighty Counselor
25:37 And if you find yourself in a difficult position
25:40 maybe you can enter into this pray with us
25:42 for that Mighty Counselor to begin to make
25:45 the difference in your life!
25:46 So we pray together?
25:48 Father in Heaven we do thank You for
25:51 the assurance that You are the God of all flesh.
25:55 And there's nothing too hard for You!
25:58 That You do have the solution to every problem.
26:01 And we come to You for the many people
26:05 today. Maybe someone who's viewing this program, who is
26:10 desperately in need of Your Saving Power;
26:16 Lord, if they need that Power,
26:19 may You work in their hearts and may You connect them
26:21 if necessary, with someone who can be a tool in Your Hands
26:26 for their restoration! In Jesus name Amen!
26:32 Well, next time we get together,
26:34 and we hope that you'll be joining us next time,
26:37 we're going to be talking about something
26:39 that's a lot of fun!
26:41 - Keeping our love alive! - That's right!
26:44 - It's fun isn't it? - It is! It's one of my most
26:46 favorite topics!
26:49 Keeping love alive!
26:51 You know, we want you
26:53 to have a marriage that's heart to heart.
26:56 And we know that the missing link for us
27:00 was having a relationship with God
27:05 that was heart to heart first!
27:07 We cannot not hold on God!
27:09 We cannot separate God from our marriage
27:12 and expect to have a marriage that's heart to heart.
27:15 So, next time we're together we're going to be talking about
27:18 the ways that we can keep love alive!
27:22 As we keep that love alive with our Heavenly Father,
27:25 with our Personal Saviour
27:28 we will be able to keep love alive in our marriage!
27:32 We have a marriage that's heart to heart!
27:35 And we want you to have a marriage that's heart to heart!
27:40 So we hope we'll see you next time!
27:42 Keeping love alive!
28:27 Captioning and translations by Christian Media Services