Participants: Alane Waters, Tom Waters
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000020
00:26 Marriage Heart to Heart with Tom & Alane Waters
00:30 Welcome to Marriage Heart to Heart!
00:31 We're Tom & Alane Waters with Restoration International
00:35 And we hope you have a pencil and paper today
00:38 because we're going to be talking about
00:40 moving from discord to harmony in our marriages.
00:44 Nobody likes discord! Do they honey?
00:45 Nobody likes discord!
00:47 - I don't like it! - I don't either!
00:49 You like to hear music discordant?
00:51 No! It always makes me turn it off!
00:53 That's right! And I don't think any of us really
00:55 wants to discord when we're listening to
00:58 the beautiful harmonies of a quartet or a choir
01:02 we like that sound! It feels right! It moves our souls!
01:05 But when there is that disaccording note or that
01:09 off tune, none of us like it!
01:11 And I don't think any of us like having the discord
01:15 in our marriage relations. So
01:17 we're gonna talk about that today!
01:19 We wanna have a harmonious marriage! We wanted to
01:22 be beautiful and pleasant to listen to,
01:25 pleasant to experience! - That's right!
01:28 I remember a family that we met at one of our
01:30 Restoration International seminars.
01:34 they came to us, if you remember,
01:36 and they were having discord in their family.
01:40 But they were talking about
01:41 the discord with their young people.
01:43 They were having teenage rebellion problems.
01:47 But as we listened to them, if you remember,
01:50 we started recognizing that
01:52 a lot of the discord that was happening in their young people
01:55 was because of the discord
01:57 that was happening between the two of them.
02:00 And so, if you remember too, that week end
02:03 we spent some time, some very personal time with
02:06 with that couple.
02:07 And they began to open up and share a little bit
02:10 about what was really happening between them
02:12 that was causing things to go on off harmony in their home.
02:16 That's right! It was evident as set and listen to them
02:19 talk that the problem wasn't just the young people,
02:23 but that the stress between the husband and wife
02:25 was so intense,
02:27 there was so much - That's right!
02:29 conflict between them that they
02:31 could not and didn't know how to reach their young people.
02:34 The young people said:
02:35 "Well if this is the way you're gonna be
02:37 I'm gonna do what I wanna do! "
02:38 That's right!
02:40 It was a blessing as we had the opportunity
02:42 to talk to this couple that
02:46 they ended up coming and visiting us
02:49 and actually making quite a sacrifice to come,
02:53 to make the distance, to pay for their
02:55 travel to come and visit in our family for a period of time.
03:00 And they began to open up what was really happening
03:03 in their hearts. And
03:04 I'll never forget the day we were sitting out on the
03:08 the front porch.
03:09 Do you remember what happened out there
03:12 in some of the things that he began to reveal to us?
03:15 Yes! He was very open and very honest
03:20 and very blatant in what he had to say.
03:22 And it was very painful to hear his words.
03:24 He says: "I don't love my wife!
03:27 I've never loved my wife!
03:28 I've lived with her for 20 years and I haven't loved my wife! "
03:32 Yes! And that, you know, what was painful was hearing that
03:36 but not only that but
03:38 what was very painful was knowing that
03:41 he was saying these words
03:43 and his wife was sitting right there with him.
03:46 And I remember what you said! Do You remember the words that
03:50 came out when he said that he could not love his wife?
03:54 I said: "Why can't you love her?"
03:55 That's a very basic question!
03:58 You know, my heart was breaking for her
04:00 and yet I knew that they were both having problems
04:04 but I said: "Why can't you love her?"
04:06 And he said:
04:08 "I've tried! I've tried to love her!"
04:10 "I just can't!"
04:12 And you know, for many people
04:13 that has been something that they've experienced.
04:16 They try but they can't! Because we've only tried
04:19 with human love! - That's right!
04:20 And that's what I shared with him that day.
04:22 "Your human love is not sufficient to love her!"
04:26 "But God's love working in your heart,
04:29 Divine love with human love can conquer anything!
04:33 And you can love your wife! "
04:35 That's right!
04:36 You know what was beautiful
04:39 was to know in our hearts
04:42 as we worked with many many couples
04:44 and many families to know
04:47 that deep in his heart, even though he was making a cry
04:51 of "I can't love her!"
04:53 "It will actually be better for my children
04:55 if I'm out of this family! "
04:57 While he was saying those things
04:59 we could hear the cry of his heart that he wanted
05:02 to love his wife!
05:04 And so, we had a beautiful weekend together that weekend.
05:10 we began to talk about a verse that I think
05:13 every listener here, every one of us needs to understand
05:17 better than we do. It's taken from Luke 9:24.
05:21 And it says there: "For whosoever will save his life
05:25 shall lose it. "
05:27 It's an interesting thought. Whosoever would save his life.
05:30 I think all of us
05:33 at least when self is in throne, when self is in control,
05:37 when we have the me focus
05:39 we wanna save ourselves, we look for ways.
05:41 And he was really looking for a way to save himself.
05:44 But the verse goes on and it says:
05:46 " but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, "
05:50 that's for Christ sake.
05:52 "shall save it. "
05:54 And we began to talk there together
05:57 with them, if you remember, about the me focus
06:02 versus the us focus.
06:04 The casting of blame, whenever we get into the me focus
06:08 if you wanna know a barometer
06:10 for the me focus
06:11 it begins to cast blame.
06:13 It begins to point a
06:15 you know "If my wife wouldn't"
06:18 "If my wife would stop doing this,"
06:19 or "if I could get my wife to do this"
06:22 It begins to justify why I say what I say,
06:25 why I take the positions that I take
06:27 that's the me focus!
06:30 And it's only looking at serving self.
06:33 It's really the self pity that happens.
06:38 we began to talk about how
06:41 he particularly, but both of them,
06:43 how he could surrender himself
06:46 by faith, not his circumstances, not what he'd been
06:50 through for the last 20 years, but by faith
06:52 he could surrender himself if he really wanted
06:55 to see his discord in his own heart
06:59 and in his own marriage
07:00 turn to harmony.
07:03 And he asked us a question that day.
07:05 "What is the key to the happiness I see in you?"
07:09 "What is the key to the happiness I see in your family?"
07:12 And you know, that day we shared with him:
07:14 it is not about me and it's not about my husband
07:17 it's about what God wants to make us.
07:20 And really learning how to surrender ourselves to Him
07:24 that we have harmony with Him
07:26 and when we have harmony with Him,
07:27 we have harmony with one another.
07:29 And that was the key we shared with him that day.
07:31 That's right!
07:33 Well, you know, he was
07:35 wrestling with that selfishness just like each one of us
07:39 and each one of you has experienced.
07:42 And I think that you know what it's like!
07:44 I know what it is when self wants to raise up in me,
07:47 what it feels like!
07:49 And you can feel the discord inside,
07:52 you can feel the disharmony with God.
07:55 And certainly you begin to experience
07:58 the discord between husband and wife
08:00 or in the family circle.
08:02 And so, he was experiencing that
08:04 he was wrestling with that.
08:06 And as we went through that weekend
08:08 it was so beautiful to watch
08:11 his heart changing.
08:14 And as his heart began to change
08:16 to watch what began to happen in his wife's heart.
08:21 And then
08:23 to see what began to happen in the hearts of some teenagers
08:27 that they originally wanted to talk to us about
08:29 with their problems.
08:31 After that weekend they attended that next week
08:34 a Restoration International Family Camp Meeting.
08:37 And we had an opportunity to share more
08:39 with them at that time.
08:41 And it wasn't too long after that camp meeting
08:44 that we got a special letter in the mail.
08:46 Do you remember that? - Very beautiful!
08:48 A beautiful letter and
08:51 I want you to listen to the words
08:54 that this man wrote
08:56 after an experience that was almost bringing their marriage
09:02 to an end. Listen to the words:
09:05 He said: "You probably don't know how close I was
09:08 to the edge of a deep canyon ready to jump down
09:12 into darkness. You probably remember how rebellious I was
09:16 at your home on that Friday night and Sabbath
09:19 but you held your peace and remain calm and firm.
09:23 You treated me with love and with respect.
09:26 The greatest impact on me was on Sabbath morning
09:29 at family worship
09:31 on how to be happy. "
09:33 That was our topic that day.
09:34 - That's right! - How we can be happy!
09:37 That was a special worship that morning.
09:41 Our family worships have always been special in our home.
09:44 I was trying to make them very practical for our own
09:48 marriage and our own children.
09:50 But that particular morning we were looking at how
09:53 do we have a happy family.
09:56 And it was powerful to not even knowing at the time
09:59 what an impact it was having in his life.
10:02 But on Sunday morning,
10:04 he says in his letter:
10:05 "On Sunday as we were sitting on the porch
10:09 Alane with tears in her eyes said:
10:11 "Why can't you love her?"
10:15 These words nearly pierced my heart.
10:19 At the camp meeting I was impressed with the messages
10:21 but there was still a resistance in my heart
10:24 that I could not explain! "
10:26 And I know that some of you listeners right now
10:28 may understand that resistance. You may be experiencing it
10:32 in the discord that you're having.
10:34 And you may be wanting to blame that discord
10:37 on your wife: "Oh my wife doesn't understand me!"
10:39 "If my wife would change!"
10:41 He was experiencing that resistance.
10:43 Then he goes on and says: "But
10:45 that resistance was taken away from me slowly,
10:51 message after message until it was completely removed. "
10:58 And then the letter continues on:
11:01 "When you approached me on that Sabbath afternoon Tom,
11:04 one week from being in your home, you asked me
11:06 this question:
11:08 "Are you really committed?"
11:10 And I think that's a question we all need to ask ourselves.
11:13 Are we really committed?
11:16 If we are then God can solve anything and everything.
11:20 "That was the question and then you said:
11:22 "I prayed for you that you would be committed. "
11:26 And that's something we need to be doing for one another
11:29 and for others, we need to be praying for them.
11:33 That's right!
11:34 And I wanna read his commitment to you
11:36 because it was beautiful as he shared us in the letter.
11:41 He says: "Here is my commitment:
11:44 I will do everything, go anywhere,
11:49 leave nothing undone
11:52 to see my wife
11:54 and each of my children in Heaven! "
11:59 What a commitment!
12:01 A beautiful commitment to see what he was willing to do
12:06 in that experience.
12:09 That was what? Almost two years ago?
12:11 Yes! I remember the day that letter came in.
12:14 What rejoicing it was to hear that level of commitment
12:17 from a man who refused to love his wife because
12:20 he thought it was impossible to love his wife,
12:23 - That's right! - and hadn't loved her
12:25 their entire marriage and was preparing to
12:28 leave the marriage and leave his family
12:30 to in just a few days time
12:34 changing and letting the Power of God work in him
12:36 and making that commitment to her. And
12:39 that letter was just a joy in our home.
12:42 Well, it was a tremendous blessing
12:46 not just the letter of course but to see what's happening
12:49 in their family over these last two years.
12:53 We just wanna encourage you
12:55 that if you find yourself in discord
12:58 maybe it's very serious discord, maybe it's
13:00 not that serious, whatever,
13:03 we wanna encourage you
13:05 that the Lord Jesus Christ has the solution for your discord.
13:10 No matter what it is, no matter who's fault it is
13:13 if you are willing to allow God to work in you,
13:17 you will find the answer that you're looking for.
13:21 You will be able to move to a marriage that's heart to heart!
13:25 We need to break right now and we look forward to having you
13:28 join us in just a moment.
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14:15 Welcome back!
14:16 We've been talking about God bringing discord
14:21 to harmony in our lives, in our marriages.
14:24 And we were sharing with you about
14:26 a couple, actually a family that was experiencing
14:30 tremendous discord and then what God has been doing
14:34 of the last two years in their lives.
14:37 It's been exciting to see what's happened in two years!
14:40 - That's right! - I mean, the miracle
14:43 of seeing this man really love his wife!
14:45 And you can see it! I mean it radiates from him,
14:49 and you can see her, - He's not having to try, is he?
14:51 He's not having to try!
14:52 It's something God's put in his heart,
14:54 he's cooperating with the Lord in that.
14:57 And you know, when you see his wife,
14:59 you can tell the difference! In fact I remember even asking her
15:02 "How is it been?" and she says:
15:03 "I can tell the difference, God has worked in his life!"
15:05 And that, that's just as much a modern day miracle
15:08 as it was when Jesus was here and He healed the leprous and
15:11 He raised the dead and He cast out demons.
15:14 That Miracle Power of Jesus Christ is present
15:18 in this world today if we're willing to accept that
15:21 and let Him make the difference in our lives!
15:23 And that's the exciting thing that we saw in this couple
15:26 they are no longer the same.
15:29 And, you know, his love continues to grow deeper
15:32 and deeper and becomes more and more fine-tune.
15:35 And it's not just had an effect in their marriage
15:38 but it's exciting to see the results in their family!
15:41 You know, the teenagers
15:43 who were, one of them at 18, nearly 18,
15:46 ready to walk out the door
15:49 and turn his back on the family.
15:51 He's happy to be at home at 20, he's got direction in life.
15:56 He respects his father, he loves his family
15:59 and he loves the Lord!
16:01 And he's dedicated himself to serving the Lord.
16:04 In that transformation of the father, the influence
16:07 that's had in the family. - That's right!
16:10 I think that the beautiful thing is,
16:12 and I wanna encourage each listener here
16:16 it isn't just loosing our life
16:21 for Christ sake,
16:23 you know, that verse that we read there, Luke 9:24
16:26 that if we try to save our lives if we try to save ourselves
16:30 to preserve ourselves
16:32 we're gonna end up loosing our way.
16:34 But if we're willing to let self die
16:37 and give ourselves unreservedly to Christ
16:40 it isn't just going to impact my life
16:43 it's going to impact my wife's life, it's going to impact
16:47 my, our young people's lives and that's the beauty
16:51 that God is trying to bring from discord to harmony!
16:57 And, you know, not everyone experiences discord
16:59 in their to this degree. - That's right!
17:02 It starts in the little things but
17:04 if we are willing to work with the Lord, in the little things
17:07 to loose our life for His sake and to see how He wants
17:11 to give us a change then we see
17:14 the little bit of disharmony turn into a beautiful harmony.
17:17 We don't have to wait until that it's so terrible
17:21 that we can't stand it anymore,
17:22 and we're looking for anyway out of it!
17:24 Wherever we find ourselves from the littlest discord
17:28 to the most serious discord that's where God wants
17:31 to take us and He wants to turn that into harmony in our lives!
17:36 And that's the thing that I wanna reflect on
17:39 for just a moment with each of you as our viewers.
17:44 This crisis point, whether you're standing on the edge
17:48 of an abyss like this man was, ready to
17:51 jump off as it were in this case, ready to leave his family.
17:56 He was so close to leaving his wife and his young people.
18:02 Whether you're there, and I know that they may be
18:05 some people who are there, even now as we're sharing this
18:10 or whether you're just experiencing a what we might
18:14 call the every day simple trials of life that can bring
18:19 discordant lack of harmony in the home.
18:24 What this man saw and what I came to see
18:27 and continue to see in my own life and my own marriage
18:30 is that we come to a point where we have a need.
18:34 That need we're either going to try to
18:38 fill or fulfill by getting what I think I want
18:42 and how I think I can preserve myself.
18:45 Or we're going to get it by what
18:48 God needs to do to make the difference in my life!
18:51 And in order for that to happen,
18:53 that means we have to turn away from the Devil's program
18:57 You know he has the program that the grass is always
18:59 greener on the other side,
19:01 maybe if you found some other women you'd have a better life!
19:04 Maybe if you could have less pressure you'd be a better man!
19:08 No! God wants to take us right where we are
19:11 and this man saw that need, didn't he?
19:13 - He saw the need! - He saw the need!
19:15 He recognized what God was calling for him to do.
19:18 He recognized what the Devil was calling him to do.
19:22 He made a choice that every one of us needs to make
19:25 not once in our lives but daily.
19:27 Sometimes, many times in the day.
19:29 That's right many times a day. He made a choice
19:33 to let go of self, to surrender himself to Christ!
19:36 And then he began to experience as you said the miracle
19:40 life changing Power.
19:41 No different than what the demoniacs experience,
19:44 the man by the Pool of Bethesda who was crippled for 38 years.
19:47 This is life changing power
19:49 and it's the Power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
19:53 It's interesting to know that when we're willing
19:56 to let Christ have us the little things that so easily upset us
20:02 are no longer issues.
20:04 You know, it's sometimes the external circumstances
20:08 they cause us to be frustrated
20:10 but we tend to take it out on those that we love,
20:13 those who are the closest to us.
20:15 And those little external things, sometimes
20:18 create internal problems.
20:20 And God, it doesn't matter what our problems are,
20:22 if they're external or they're internal
20:24 God wants to change that. He wants to make us
20:27 in harmony with Him and harmony with each other.
20:30 And that's the joy we've seen
20:32 because when we face ourselves
20:34 we know the solution is in Christ!
20:36 And when we're willing to let Him have us
20:39 then we find that joy and we have harmony with each other!
20:42 And the little things or the big things no longer
20:45 are the issues that we thought they were.
20:48 That's right! And, you know, we used to try,
20:51 just like most of us try,
20:55 Alane and I used to try to
20:58 change our discordant situations by
21:02 getting the other person to change.
21:04 - Changing each other right? - Yes! Because thought
21:06 you know, If I can get you to see it my way
21:08 you thought If you can get me to do it your way
21:11 then certainly there will be harmony, there will be
21:14 no more discord.
21:16 But you know, you can never find harmony
21:20 when you're trying to find it self's way.
21:23 And so,
21:24 being willing to loose our life
21:27 for Jesus sake,
21:29 being willing to give up for your sake,
21:33 the beauty of it is it's the more I give up for you
21:36 for Jesus sake the happier man I am.
21:41 And the more that I chose
21:44 to let the Lord lead in my life the happier I am!
21:46 - That's right! - And the more I see
21:48 the good in you, and I think that's what was so
21:50 impactive and that's why we share this experience
21:52 of this couple, because their lives were so far apart,
21:59 as he said: "ready to go on to darkness",
22:02 he knew it! And yet he wanted help!
22:05 Because he really didn't wanna go there
22:08 but he saw no other way out.
22:10 And I think that's the way it is for many people.
22:12 We really don't wanna loose our marriage, but because
22:15 we don't think there's another way
22:18 we keep following down this track that is just
22:23 propelling us to do things that we would never
22:27 in a right mind think we would ever do.
22:30 We don't realize the cost of those kind of decisions.
22:34 And I think we all need to recognize that
22:39 when we have those thoughts
22:41 and we wanna start blaming the other person
22:44 and we're not happy where we are in our marriage,
22:47 when those thoughts start to come
22:49 that's the moment! That's the moment
22:51 we need to cry out to the Lord and say:
22:53 "Lord I need your help!"
22:59 let us personally challenge you today.
23:03 And whenever I say that I often remember that
23:06 I'm not gonna challenge you to anything that God
23:11 is not challenging me with,
23:13 has already challenged me with or
23:15 continues to challenge me with.
23:17 And that is if you, today, are finding yourself
23:22 in discord, no matter how small it is,
23:25 that needs to be addressed, not in the other person.
23:31 You need to be willing
23:33 by God' Grace to be willing to say: "Lord
23:38 what is it in me? What is it that's happening in me? "
23:41 Even though everything inside of you may be saying:
23:44 "It's not my fault! It's not me! It's her!"
23:51 Even if it is her, God knows that.
23:55 Let God reveal to you
23:57 what He wants to do to make your discord
24:02 turn to harmony!
24:03 That will prepare you to reach her if she really has a problem,
24:07 better than anything you can do in selfishness.
24:12 So the challenge is not just for other people
24:14 it's for ourselves too! - That's right!
24:16 It's a day by day! It's a challenge but
24:19 it's not a negative thing. It's very positive
24:21 because we want to have harmony. And when
24:24 we experience that harmony
24:26 we experience the peace and the joy that it brings.
24:28 - That's right! - Ad so it may seem
24:30 challenging at first. It did to us at first.
24:33 It did to this man at first, a very big challenge.
24:36 But when we make that step as we let the Lord work in our hart
24:41 and He changes us with divine Power, mixing divine
24:45 love with our human love,
24:47 when that happens
24:49 it gets easier and easier and easier and that's
24:51 what he's experienced and that's what we've experienced.
24:53 And many others have experienced the same thing.
24:56 - It's exciting isn't it? - It's very exciting!
24:58 It's good news!
25:00 It's part of the Gospel.
25:02 The hole Gospel of Jesus Christ is taking
25:06 the discord of our lives
25:08 and making them harmonious.
25:11 It's taking the music that's out of harmony
25:14 in us and bringing us back into harmony!
25:18 And, you know, the beauty of it is
25:20 is that when we allow God to do that,
25:22 when we start allowing Him to really change that
25:26 the music that starts playing in our lives,
25:29 the harmonious, melodious, nice to listen to music
25:34 in a marriage
25:35 a marriage that's heart to heart
25:38 that music just can't stay
25:41 to yourself.
25:43 It's the music of the Gospel. It's the harmony
25:46 of life in Jesus Christ.
25:49 And we want that experience for you. And the Devil
25:53 hates for you to have that experience
25:55 and he will tell you all kinds of lies!
25:59 He will tell you: "If you give up on yourself, if you do
26:02 it God's way you're not gonna be happy!
26:05 You won't be able to do the things you wanna do! "
26:08 But I can tell you from my own experience
26:11 that those are lies of the Devil!
26:13 I've never been a happier man! We have never had
26:18 a happier marriage then when we're willing
26:21 to let go of self and do what God is calling us to do!
26:27 I hope you'll make that choice today!
26:29 I hope that you'll be willing to give up
26:32 and let God take your discord and turn it into harmony!
26:36 Honey would you close us in prayer?
26:40 Father we recognize that we do need You
26:42 and we recognize that with You everything is made beautiful!
26:46 And that is the need that each of us have
26:49 individually and especially also as couples.
26:52 We just pray that we would be willing
26:55 to turn our hearts to You
26:57 to let You live in us in such a way
27:00 that we can experience that true beauty and harmony
27:02 that only You can make!
27:04 And that it would shine in our marriage
27:06 and through our families an to all those around us.
27:09 In Jesus name Amen! - Amen!
27:13 We hope you'll join us next time!
27:15 We're gonna be talking about something that will
27:18 aid in this process of turning discord into harmony.
27:24 It's Handling our Emotions.
27:25 Now, emotions that's a woman's thing, right, honey?
27:29 Well, women often are viewed as emotional people
27:33 but man do have emotions too!
27:35 Ok! Well we want you to join us nest time!
27:38 We want you to have a marriage heart to heart
27:41 and that can happen in Jesus Christ!
28:24 Captioning and translations Christian Media Services