Participants: Alane Waters, Tom Waters
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000007
00:01 A promise
00:03 to love
00:06 in good times
00:08 and bad
00:11 for richer
00:14 or poorer
00:17 forsaking all others
00:19 as long as
00:21 you both shall live
00:25 MARRIAGE In God's Hands
00:28 Marriage Heart to Heart with Tom & Alane Waters
00:33 Welcome to Marriage Heart to Heart
00:36 We are Tom & Alane Waters with Restoration International
00:40 We hope you have your pencils and paper ready because today
00:43 we're gonna be talking about Establishing our Roles
00:46 in the Marriage!
00:49 You know, this is something that I guess we would call it
00:52 a "hot topic" because there's been
00:56 a real misunderstanding in erosion a way of the roles
01:00 not just women's roles today, but
01:03 the real place that God designed for man to take.
01:07 So, we want to begin right back at the beginning
01:11 with what God has showed us
01:14 the best way for man and wife. So if you have your Bibles,
01:19 turns with us today to Genesis. We're gonna be looking at
01:21 Genesis the second chapter in the 18 verse:
01:27 "And the LORD God said, It is not good that man should
01:31 be alone; I will make him an help meet. "
01:37 A qualified, suitable helper. I put that in parenthesis.
01:42 That's what a help meet is.
01:45 So, when God created man and women, He created them equal.
01:49 Because women was taken from man's side.
01:53 That meant: she was not to rule over him, to be above him
01:56 or not to be below him, to be stepped on or walked on.
02:00 That's what God designed in the original Plan of Creation
02:03 for husband and wife.
02:05 So, what happened?
02:07 Well, Eve decided she was going to try something
02:11 a little different.
02:13 And she chose to leave her husband's side.
02:17 And in her wanderings she fell into temptation.
02:22 And after that happened we see a difference in the role
02:26 of men and women as God placed there early in Genesis.
02:30 So, then am I to understand that the problem is that you
02:35 can never physically leave my side!?
02:38 No! Not at all!
02:40 But it means that women need to be content with the role
02:43 God has given them, in the home and not to become disillusioned
02:46 or dissatisfied looking for something else.
02:50 Ok. So there's a restlessness that Eve experienced
02:54 an in her restlessness she tried to take herself into a position
02:58 and do some things that God never designed for her.
03:02 And as some of you may or may not know in the Biblical account
03:06 there Eve was standing at that tree that she wasn't supposed to
03:11 be partaking of and the Devil insinuated himself there
03:16 as a serpent,
03:17 and gave her the illusion that if she would just eat this fruit
03:21 she would be, well the snake was talking supposedly,
03:25 and that she would be like the Gods and that in reality God
03:29 was withholding something that was really good for her.
03:32 And if she could experience this she would have a
03:35 higher understanding.
03:37 Well, as we know, she did experience this and it didn't
03:41 give her that. All she got out of that experience was
03:46 she found out what sin and transgression was like and
03:48 the pain begin there.
03:50 And it immediately affected their home.
03:53 Up until that point there was no contention, no problem,
03:57 no strife in the marriage. But when that happened
04:00 and The Lord came back to Adam and Eve and wanted
04:03 to make them accountable immediately blame began.
04:07 Eve blamed, Adam blamed and then we had the whole problem that
04:11 we still can see in marriages: blaming each other.
04:14 That's right!
04:15 And so, in Genesis 3:16 in the second half of the verse there
04:21 this is where we see that Eve lost her perfect equality.
04:26 She chose to step away from the role that God gave her
04:29 and she lost her perfect equality there.
04:31 And part of Eve's consequences there in Genesis 3:16
04:38 we're told: "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he
04:42 shall rule over thee. "
04:47 Rule over! I don't know of any woman who likes that term:
04:52 to be ruled over!
04:54 It was a hard one for me because I interpreted that to mean
04:57 that I have no more choice, no more say!
05:02 That I was to be controlled by somebody else.
05:05 That's not what it says!
05:07 That's right!
05:09 So, don't click off the program thinking: "oh boy! Here we go!"
05:14 "Now we're gonna talk about putting women in their place
05:16 today. " That's not what we're talking about here.
05:19 Our desire, in our own marriage, our desire has been to find
05:25 and establish or shall I say reestablish the real positions
05:30 that God has for us! Because where He created us
05:34 the closer we can come back to where He created us
05:38 the happier we are going to be as individuals and the happier
05:41 more blended we're going to be
05:43 in our marriages.
05:44 That's right! So, let's look at those roles than that we have
05:48 that God uniquely designed for us
05:51 to enter into as husband and wife in the marriage.
05:56 You know, the Apostle Paul tells us there in 1 Corinthians 11
06:01 verse 3: "I would have you know, that the head of every man
06:06 is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man;
06:11 and the head of Christ is God. "
06:15 I think we can take a step back and look at how Christ shows
06:21 to be under the Heavenly Father.
06:25 It was a choice that He made. He was equal with God.
06:29 And because of sin, because of this very scenario that we just
06:33 talked about, where Eve decided that she was gonna do her own
06:36 thing and than Adam got involved and we know the story.
06:40 God and Jesus had a plan! Jesus chose to be under the Lordship
06:47 under the Head of His Father,
06:50 in order to carry out the plan of salvation. I think
06:52 that's beautiful! It was a cooperative plan that
06:55 where Jesus willingly, Jesus chose to willingly become
06:59 a servant. He chose to become a sun. He chose to become
07:05 a Savior!
07:06 Our savior!
07:08 And that's beautiful!
07:09 And I think if we can look at this context now where
07:13 where Paul the Apostle says that "the head of every woman
07:16 is the man. "
07:19 I know in our marriage we had some struggles with this.
07:24 Early on, especially! - Well, I wanted you to be
07:26 the head but I wanted you to do it my way!
07:27 That's right!
07:28 That was the problem!
07:32 I think that if we look at this in the way that Jesus
07:36 looked at this for our salvation.
07:40 Aren't you happier when you are in the position
07:42 that God designed for you to be?
07:44 Oh absolutely! I have found out to be the happiest I've been
07:48 because I can trust in your leadership! But it doesn't mean
07:52 that you make all the decisions alone!
07:54 That's right! - Because we work together!
07:56 And that's what that cooperation that is demonstrate
07:59 through Christ and the Father.
08:01 And that same thing needs to be demonstrated between
08:03 a husband and wife, that's the cooperation between the two.
08:06 That's right!
08:07 It's like having a team, you know! Your dad has often talked
08:10 about having a team of horses out on the farm you know!
08:13 That's right! - He used to drive a team
08:14 of horses when they planted the fields or plowed the fields.
08:17 And he talks about, he'd always tell us about the main horse.
08:23 They were yoked together but he'd have the main horse
08:26 that was the lead horse and then the other horse. But
08:30 they were a team together.
08:31 The lead horse by himself wouldn't be sufficient
08:35 to meet the task. And certainly
08:37 the other one needed the leadership of the lead horse.
08:41 So I think it's a beautiful illustration of what God designs
08:45 for us in our marriage, that we read here in the New Testament,
08:49 the Apostle Paul is talking about, that cooperation
08:51 that team effort! But there needs to be a leader and there
08:54 needs to be a helper, a help meet.
08:57 And even in the beginning, in the perfect environment
08:59 woman's role was called to be a help-mate for her husband.
09:05 So, the issue here, in this I wanna say especially for
09:09 the ladies that are listening, are watching today.
09:13 The issue here is not that we have to get woman
09:17 back into her right place.
09:20 And man just goes on business as usual.
09:24 What we're talking about is roles, plural today.
09:28 We're talking about getting men and women back into our
09:32 right roles, because we're living in a society
09:35 where it's been lost.
09:37 And it's being lost. It hasn't completely being lost, but
09:41 We wanna see the man take up responsibility. When I
09:45 began take up responsibility as the real priest and leader
09:50 of our home it made it a lot easier for you,
09:54 to take up in desire to take your role as the wife
09:59 in the home. - That's right!
10:01 So maybe we should turn to Ephesians 5:22 because
10:05 here we find it very clear. We've talked about this already
10:08 through this series Marriage Heart to Heart,
10:11 about the role of the wife, and it says here:
10:14 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands
10:17 as unto the Lord. "
10:19 Now, unless we learn how to really submit or surrender
10:23 ourselves to God, we are going to find it impossible
10:27 to really understand how to submit to our husband.
10:32 Because we have to understand how to do it unto the Lord first
10:36 And one of the things that helped me the most was to know
10:39 that God only wants what is best for me!
10:41 And when I choose to trust Him, that's really what submission is
10:45 I trust Him with my life! I trust Him with my being,
10:50 with my happiness, with my peace with my joy! I trust Him!
10:55 And when I trust God it makes it easy to trust you!
11:00 - I know! - And God then fulfills
11:02 what He can do and He wants to do in us.
11:05 And to give us that peace and contentment.
11:08 That's right!
11:09 Now was there a time when it was difficult for you to trust me?
11:14 Oh Yes! - Do you remember that little
11:16 situation that happened when we were making our move
11:19 to the country?
11:21 Yes! I was learning in little things to trust
11:24 and to be submissive, in small ways and it's a growing process.
11:29 Because having been single and had my own career
11:32 and my own profession, lived in my own apartment
11:35 made all my own decisions.
11:37 And to move from that to being married, you know I wanted that
11:40 dependence on you but I still had a problem with controlling
11:44 thing myself! And I learned little by little in small things
11:47 and it was growing but when we made the move
11:50 and we were leaving our medical professions and all the security
11:54 of that, and we were moving to the country
11:58 and you were going to change occupations
12:01 A lot of changes! - A lot of changes! All at once!
12:04 I had it all figured out! This was my plan:
12:08 "Look, we're gonna move from suburbia
12:11 from health professions, we're gonna move to the country
12:14 they don't really need a lot of program directors for radiology,
12:18 X ray teachers" I guess I could say to make it simple.
12:22 What, you know, there's not those kind of jobs
12:25 where we were moving.
12:27 So, my reasoning, my understanding was:
12:31 "I'll just continue my nursing profession, I'll be a nurse.
12:35 everywhere, everywhere there's jobs for nurses!
12:38 I'll continue in my role as a nurse and make a little money
12:42 to sustain the family until you could establish your profession"
12:49 And what did I think about that?
12:52 You challenged me!
12:55 In a very loving way!
12:57 You said: "Honey we're not gonna move across the country,
13:01 for you to be out of the home and working. "
13:04 "The whole purpose of this is to return to God's original plan
13:07 as close as we can!"
13:09 "I don't want you working!"
13:11 And, you know: "I'll take care of you!" That was the promise,
13:14 the commitment you made to me.
13:17 - I know. - And I found it a joy
13:19 to surrender to that. Because it wasn't looking for my way out.
13:25 'Cause you really didn't wanna go back to work at that point.
13:28 I really didn't want to, but I felt like you know somebody
13:31 has to make an income. - Yes!
13:33 But, I trusted you in that and I saw you put forth a diligent
13:37 effort and I saw a willingness in you to do whatever it took,
13:40 in order to provide for the family. -That's right!
13:42 I would've done Glitches(?) if I needed to.
13:45 Or razed worms. You talked about razing worms.
13:47 I wasn't impressed. I'm sorry!
13:50 You know, right here I think it might be good for
13:53 our viewing audience, this is not to say that a woman
13:58 doesn't need to be prepared where there's a genuine need.
14:02 That's right!
14:03 Where there's a health challenge where there's a crisis.
14:06 A single parent. - Where there's a single parent.
14:09 There's many different situations. But what we were
14:12 talking about in what we were going through was:
14:15 If my wife would've begin working it would've made it
14:19 too easy for us to miss the transition that God wanted
14:22 and was preparing for us.
14:25 And we see this a lot. We see many, many marriages today
14:28 where it's either because of a life-style that wants
14:32 to be maintained, that you got two people that are
14:35 working together out there in the work force and
14:38 and the family is straggling in some of those areas.
14:41 Or it's just that maybe the wife can make more money
14:44 than the husband. When that scenario was happening
14:47 if the husband isn't working
14:51 to change that scenario we have found over and over again
14:55 that it creates imbalances in the marriage.
14:58 And we find as woman has left her role of nurturing
15:02 the children in the home and being a home maker
15:06 and providing a little "haven on earth" for the family
15:10 as she has left that role and has entered into the career
15:14 scene shall I say, and that becomes her life-focus,
15:20 we see the deterioration of families. -Yes!
15:22 all around the world it's the result of that!
15:24 Everywhere this has happened we see deterioration in the
15:27 families. And so, in order to continue
15:33 to develop our relationship as husband and wife we felt
15:37 the need to go back to the original.
15:40 And strife(?) for the original, for the best!
15:43 and to whatever level God could bless us with,
15:46 that's where we would be content.
15:48 That's right!
15:49 Well, we need to take a break right now
15:51 and we will come back and we'll talk about
15:54 the man's responsibly, the husband's responsibility.
15:58 So, stay with us!
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16:36 Welcome back!
16:38 As we're talking here together about the roles,
16:41 understanding our roles as husband and wife.
16:44 We were just beginning to talk about the importance of the
16:47 husband's responsibility here. It's not just what
16:51 you need to do! Or how you need to change or
16:53 reestablish your role.
16:56 We men, need to look at how we can reestablish our proper role.
17:02 And I think the verse in Ephesians 5 verse 25 is
17:06 is an appropriate starting place or
17:11 a real stepping stone to that.
17:14 "Husbands", it says "love your wives, even as Christ loved
17:18 the church, and gave himself for it"
17:22 The first key here is giving myself.
17:26 It isn't being a dictator. - That's right!
17:29 If I'm going to really love you,
17:32 in the same way that Christ loves his people,
17:35 loves the church and gave himself that I'm gonna
17:37 be willing to give myself. True leadership is service
17:41 and servants and it's interesting that even in
17:45 top corporations the top people who really have
17:48 successful employees are people that stay in communication
17:51 with those people that they are really in communication
17:55 and service from the top. - That's right!
17:58 It's really a blend of both roles that God has given us here
18:03 to bring us perfect harmony and unity and it's a perfect balance
18:07 because as wives learn to let the husband lead
18:11 and to be submissive to their leadership
18:13 and to work and cooperate with that leadership and
18:16 husbands learn to love their wives we have a marriage truly
18:20 Heart to Heart.
18:21 But when either one of us are refusing to enter into our role
18:26 that God has clearly marked out we find conflict in the marriage
18:30 If a wife is submissive and the husband doesn't love her
18:34 you have conflict. And if the husband loves his wife but
18:39 the wife refuses to let him lead and to be in subjection not
18:44 to be dominated by but to be led,
18:48 you have conflict!
18:49 That's right!
18:50 It's really "the two me(s)" in operation again
18:53 instead of "the us" the wife submission and
18:56 the husband's love brings us to a loving us relationship.
19:00 That's right! - And that's what we keep
19:02 working towards 'cause I'm not a perfect submitter all the time!
19:05 But I'm learning that I'm happier that way.
19:07 And I think that as I'm learning one of the things that
19:11 frustrates many women, and we've talked to many couples
19:14 where this is the case, one of the things that really
19:17 frustrates women is where they're desirous.
19:20 They want to have their husband lead.
19:24 And the husband just refuses.
19:27 And leadership here is in giving ourselves. It means
19:32 giving ourselves!
19:34 to do what we need to do for the family as the head of the family
19:38 as the priest of the home.
19:40 And so, it makes it difficult for a wife if I'm not really
19:46 supporting you as a husband, if I'm not really leading
19:49 the way, doesn't that make it hard for you?
19:51 to wanna follow?
19:52 Oh, absolutely, because I don't have
19:54 confidence there! - That's right!
19:56 But as I had put my confidence in the Lord
19:58 He helps me to find ways that I can encourage you
20:01 to take up that role. - That's right!
20:02 instead of criticizing. And I think this is very important
20:06 for us as women that we encourage and lift our husband
20:10 to help them to gain that leadership that we want.
20:15 And not to condemn them and criticize them
20:17 when they don't do it our way or when they fail.
20:20 Because this area, well we have a lot of influence in
20:25 how affective our will love us and lead in the family.
20:32 Hebrews 13:5, Jesus, this is really the model of Jesus for us
20:39 And He says: "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee"
20:43 - That's very comforting! - Isn't it though?
20:45 - Yes! - And He is to us, He is our God
20:50 He is our Savior. He plays the role to us as
20:54 the Husband and we as His church or His people
20:59 we are the Bride.
21:00 And so, here we are in this relationship and we know
21:03 that we can always count on Him.
21:06 He will never leave us, or forsake us!
21:08 It is been one of the things that I've tried to do
21:09 in our marriage. It is to give you the security that I will
21:13 not leave you or forsake you.
21:15 That doesn't mean just to get a divorce from you.
21:17 - That's right! - Or a separation.
21:19 It means that I wanna be there so you can count on me in
21:23 every situation and the little things of life.
21:26 That I'm there to be the leader, to be the priest,
21:30 to be the house bend. - My protector.
21:33 - Yes! To be these things and to provide for you.
21:37 And as I am choosing to do that
21:42 and choosing to trust Christ to do that
21:44 is that providing to you this security?
21:47 Oh, no question! I mean I could trust anything
21:50 you know, even if we were separated I know
21:54 I can trust you and I look to you to run my ideas by.
21:59 I look to you for your judgment for your input.
22:01 And for you to make a decision, not always but in many things I
22:05 do, even if they could be simple things that I
22:08 can do in the home. Even if I'm the one making those
22:10 decisions in your absence I still like to run them by you,
22:14 and get your input for them.
22:17 Well, I think that's the beautiful thing and this is
22:20 what I wanna bring through to the viewers today.
22:24 This understanding in reestablishing of our roles
22:27 is not where we're trying to say: "Ok, let's get this
22:29 woman back in her place, here!" - That's right!
22:34 "Let's put here in her place!" Right?
22:35 This restless woman that needs.. - Restraint!
22:40 Now let's let God put us each back in our rightful places.
22:46 Because it's as we are the husband and the wife
22:51 that God wants us to be, as my wife is truly submissive
22:55 first to the Lord as unto the Lord.
22:57 As you are truly submissive to the Lord you find your
23:00 your greatest opportunity to be submissive and to serve me.
23:06 That's right!
23:07 And as I am surrendered to the Lord I find my
23:10 greatest ability then to love you!
23:14 As Christ loved the church and to give myself for you.
23:20 And so, it isn't: "Let's get woman back and get man
23:24 dominating again!" Now let's get woman back in the position
23:29 where she's contented to be what God intended for woman to be.
23:34 And you have things that I'll never have.
23:37 I mean we've talked about this before. You have
23:41 strength, that God given strength of how you relate
23:45 in the home environment. Even though you had a
23:47 professional career when I met you I can see
23:49 over & over again this ability to, well nest making. Ok?
23:56 And the bond that you have with the children, specially
23:58 when they were young,
23:59 Is something that men cannot equal. And I believe
24:03 that in the roles that God gave us that, that is a special gift
24:08 that He gives to women.
24:10 And He makes us men, you know we talk about the bucks
24:13 we have a lot of bucks and deer that come through our yard
24:16 where we live up in North-West Montana.
24:19 And it's amazing to watch the little bucks,
24:22 those little tiny bucks before they even have any antlers
24:27 They're up there ramming into those big bucks.
24:31 This bucks with these huge racks on them.
24:34 And, that's what the little.. they're getting prepared
24:36 - To face a harsh world. - For the harsh world.
24:39 And I believe God puts in us as men that part of our role
24:43 is being out there and facing a hard world
24:47 a tough world and that you're designed in a special way
24:50 to have that bond and that love with the children.
24:53 And, not that I don't have the bond with our children
24:57 I certainly do! But the roles there, there's a distinct
25:00 difference and they blend together
25:03 to complement the home beautifully.
25:05 That's right! It makes us complete in our marriage
25:08 that way. - That's right!
25:09 Because we each are taking up our responsibilities
25:12 to make the home run harmoniously.
25:15 One of the greatest blessings I found was to start
25:17 studying through Scripture about women.
25:20 And I wanna encourage you women to go to the Bible and
25:23 study what God has to say about women there.
25:26 Look how women lived with Christ through their roles
25:29 that God had given them. Especially in
25:31 the Book of Titus and Timothy we can get a tremendous
25:34 encouragement and I know what it's done in my life.
25:37 It doesn't make me any less of a person.
25:39 I become more complete as I'm willing to be submitted
25:42 to Christ and learn how to be that true companion
25:45 to my husband.
25:47 And the same goes for the men. I think men we need
25:50 to take responsibility, we need to recognize that
25:53 if we wanna become the men that God wants us to be
25:56 godly leaders, the priest of our home, we need
25:59 to be spending time in God's world that is where we'll find
26:03 the answers, which really leads us into the personal challenge
26:07 for the viewing audience today.
26:10 If we're going to be understanding our roles then
26:14 we need to really, as husbands, love our wives!
26:19 Even as Christ loved the church and gave himself.
26:23 Husbands we need to be willing to turn to Christ!
26:26 We'll never be able to love like Christ unless we're surrendered
26:30 like Christ surrendered Himself to become
26:34 the sin-bearer of the world.
26:36 We need to love our wives, we need to give ourselves
26:39 to our wives and make their lives easier in the role
26:43 that God has given them.
26:45 And we wives, we need to encourage our husband to
26:48 take up that role. And we need to cooperate with them
26:51 and allow them to lead us and our family.
26:54 That has been such a blessing in our home.
26:56 And I wanna challenge you the way God has challenged me
26:59 that with Him it is possible!
27:02 And we need Him to make it possible! Let's pray together!
27:06 Father in Heaven we need Your Grace to be
27:10 the true husbands and wives that you want us to be.
27:13 We thank You that You give us the power
27:15 in Jesus name Amen!
27:19 Well we hope that you'll join us again as we talk about:
27:22 Finding Forgiveness
27:24 That's gonna be a good topic, isn't it dear?
27:26 Oh, yes! Something we all need!
27:28 And we've had to learn to find that real forgiveness
27:31 in our marriage, haven't we? - Yes!
27:32 And it's there! It's there if we are willing
27:37 because true forgiveness only comes from God!
27:41 So we look forward to seeing you!
27:44 Marriage Heart to Heart!
27:48 Marriage in God's Hands