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Series Code: IIW
Program Code: IIW018172A
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01:29 ♪[Theme music]
01:40 ♪[Theme music] 01:49 >>John Bradshaw: This is It Is Written. 01:51 I'm John Bradshaw. 01:52 Thanks for joining me. 01:54 Everybody wants it. 01:55 I think the truth is, most everybody needs it. 01:58 And when people get it, 01:59 it seems that what they want next is more. 02:03 It seems as though we can never be satisfied 02:06 with the amount of money that we have. 02:08 And that might just be a problem. 02:11 We read in the Bible that God is willing to bless His people, 02:14 but sometimes it can be that those blessings 02:18 are allowed to become curses. 02:20 Let me read to you from Matthew chapter 19 where Jesus shared 02:25 one of the most curious verses in all of the Bible. 02:28 Matthew 19 and verse 24-- He said, 02:32 "And again I say to you, 02:34 it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle 02:38 than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 02:42 Now, that's a fascinating verse. 02:44 To talk with me about that and other aspects of the subject, 02:48 I'm glad to welcome my special guest 02:50 from Queensland, Australia: Julian Archer. 02:52 Julian, thanks for joining me. 02:54 >>Julian Archer: Thank you, John. Great to be here. 02:55 >>John: Julian, as an international speaker 02:56 and as an author, you speak a lot about money. 02:59 And one of the things that you've discovered 03:00 in your studies and in your own experience is this: 03:04 It seems that as people's prosperity increases, 03:10 that person's commitment to God can decrease. 03:14 Let's talk about that. 03:15 Where would we begin? 03:16 >>Julian: Yeah, it's a bit like a teeter-totter, 03:18 or a see-saw, isn't it? 03:19 One goes up; the other goes down. 03:22 It doesn't have to. 03:23 It'd be great if it didn't, but it, it often does. 03:26 >>John: So can we talk about cases, 03:27 chapter and verse, empirical data? 03:29 I, I recently read an article produced 03:31 by a Canadian news agency that said, as nations prosper, 03:35 religion diminishes. 03:37 So just how true is it? 03:39 I think a lot of us have met rich people who, 03:42 who feel like they have no needs and don't even need God. 03:46 Of course, we're not going to say that that applies 03:48 to all wealthy people. 03:49 >>Julian: Sure. 03:51 >>John: But, but how real is this? How does it happen? 03:53 And eventually we'll get around to talking about 03:55 what a person can do about it. 03:56 >>Julian: Yeah, look, it's very real. It's very real. 03:58 The, the data has been coming out for many years. 04:01 Uh, Credit Suisse, 04:03 a very respected financial services agency 04:05 out of Switzerland, has a lot of data on it. 04:07 The Gallup poll, one of the most respected research agencies 04:10 in the world, uh, as they study around the world, 04:13 they find that the richest nations-- 04:16 so, not necessarily the biggest or, or the highest GDPs 04:21 or whatever--but those nations where the adults 04:23 in those nations actually have the highest private wealth, 04:27 those nations are the ones who are the least religious. 04:31 >>John: So what nations are they? 04:32 >>Julian: We're looking at, uh, Switzerland, 04:34 uh, Australia, New Zealand, 04:36 Denmark, Sweden, Norway, the UK, even the US. 04:39 They're the nations that are showing 04:42 this teeter-totter issue. 04:44 And those nations, interestingly enough, 04:47 are primarily founded on Christian principles. 04:49 >>John: Yeah, historically we'd refer to those-- 04:51 >>Julian: That's right. 04:52 >>John: --as Christian nations. 04:53 >>Julian: Yeah. 04:54 >>John: Whether that label is accurate or not, 04:55 but these are places where Christianity has flourished. 04:57 >>Julian: That's right. 04:58 >>John: So in the past, there was a strong Christian ethic. 05:00 Now there's a strong secular ethic, 05:03 a strong emphasis on wealth, 05:05 and you're saying that the data shows that these countries 05:07 where adults are earning the most, 05:11 that's where people are less or least committed to God. 05:14 >>Julian: That's right. 05:15 So, if you go to a nation like my home nation, 05:19 and Gallup poll comes in with their survey-- 05:21 they're surveying 200 nations-- 05:22 they get to Australia and they say--one of the questions: 05:26 "Is religion an important part of your daily life?" 05:29 Okay, simple question, yes or no: 05:31 "Is religion an important part of your daily life?" 05:33 Two-thirds, 67 percent of Australians say, 05:36 "No, religion is not important in my daily life." 05:40 You go across to somewhere like Sweden or Norway-- 05:41 you're looking at over 80 percent of people saying, 05:45 "No, religion's not important in my daily life." 05:47 And so it's a, 05:48 it's a significant teeter-totter situation. 05:51 And those nations, those top 10 richest nations, 05:54 were all founded on Christian laws, Christian principles; 05:57 they used to be, as you say, Christian nations. 05:59 >>John: Are we calling this correlation or causation? 06:01 Is this, is this just a coincidence? 06:03 >>Julian: Yeah. Look, according to the data, no. 06:06 If you get the statisticians onto the data, and they, 06:10 they will say, you know, we'll take it down 06:12 to a certain coefficient and all the rest of it; 06:14 they say this is rock-solid. 06:16 It's--this is a statistically solid analysis that, 06:19 as a nation's wealth increases, it has a direct impact 06:22 on the religiosity of the people in that nation. 06:25 >>John: So then, one would see this as a red flag, I think. 06:32 Before we go any further, 06:33 are we saying that it's wrong or bad to be wealthy? 06:36 >>Julian: No, no, not at all. 06:38 >>John: So wealth is okay? 06:39 >>Julian: Yes. 06:40 >>John: What if you're filthy rich? Is that okay? 06:43 >>Julian: It's okay. There's no problem with that. 06:45 >>John: All right. 06:46 >>Julian: Even from a Christian, 06:47 even from a biblical point of view, 06:48 there is nothing wrong with that. 06:50 >>John: For example? 06:51 >>Julian: Uh, Job, Abraham, you know, 06:53 guys who had a lot. 06:54 >>John: Solomon. 06:55 >>Julian: Solomon. 06:55 >>John: King David. 06:56 >>Julian: Classic example. Yeah, that's right. 06:58 But we must remember, though, that for Abraham, 07:00 God said to him--He said, 07:02 "I will bless you to be a blessing." 07:05 Okay? So these guys didn't-- 07:07 they didn't have masses stored up for themselves; 07:09 they had a lot of money going through them, 07:12 and God was using them to bless other people. 07:14 So there's... there are some provisos. 07:15 >>John: Okay, so it's okay to be wealthy? 07:17 >>Julian: Yes. 07:18 >>John: But Jesus said, 07:21 "It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle 07:23 than for a rich person to enter into heaven." 07:26 Now, I've heard people say that this is merely symbolic. 07:29 Jesus was just making a point. 07:31 What do you think? 07:33 >>Julian: If He was just making a point, 07:35 it's a point that is very solidly backed up today 07:39 in the data [laughs], so, so it was a pretty good point. 07:42 [laughs] So, uh, even if-- you go to Hinduism-- 07:46 you've got Mahatma Gandhi, 07:47 and he says that once financial stability is assured, 07:50 spiritual bankruptcy is also assured. 07:53 Okay, so this isn't just a Christian thing; 07:55 this is, this is, 07:56 this is human nature that, as our affluence goes up, 08:00 we tend to become very self-reliant 08:02 and think less of God or relying on God or needing God. 08:08 >>John: So why do you think that is? 08:10 >>Julian: I think the, the blessings that God gives us-- 08:14 because He wants to, He wants to bless us-- 08:17 uh, they are there for us to, to share. 08:20 If we put a dam--a wall on the dam and stop the, the flow, 08:26 or even severely limit the flow, you know, 08:28 still let some out, but you know-- 08:30 "I need to keep building mine bigger and bigger." 08:32 Uh, then that's where it starts to mess with us. 08:34 And what, what happens, to illustrate it, 08:37 is the inside of my heart, for example, 08:39 when, when I was going through this, this situation, 08:42 the inside of my heart was being filled up 08:45 with the blessings-- material blessings. 08:48 And I was so busy maintaining them, 08:51 insuring them, trying to make them grow, 08:54 trying to, trying to ensure that nobody stole them, 08:57 or whatever it was. 08:58 They took so much of my time and energy 09:01 that I simply didn't have the time and energy for God anymore. 09:03 >>John: I think it's worth pointing out here 09:05 you've alluded to the fact 09:06 that you've been a very successful business person. 09:07 Uh, and I'd like you to take a moment to talk 09:11 about the deleterious effect that had on your spiritual walk, 09:14 to the extent you wrote a book called 09:16 "Help! I've Been Blessed!" 09:18 Which is interesting because in Christian circles, 09:20 again and again and again people are saying, 09:22 "Got to do everything we can to get God's blessing," 09:24 and they're measuring blessing by dollars and cents 09:26 and possessions and cars and houses and jet aircraft 09:28 and so forth. 09:29 So you've been through this. 09:31 Walk us through some of this, 09:32 to, to the place where you had to write about this, 09:34 calling the book "Help! I've Been Blessed!" 09:37 >>Julian: Yeah. 09:38 Yeah, there is a lot of material out there 09:40 that says how to be blessed-- "God wants you to be rich." 09:43 You know, all this sort of stuff. 09:44 And I have no question-- 09:46 the Bible says that God wants to bless us--we're His children. 09:48 >>John: But does God want us to be rich? 09:51 >>Julian: God doesn't mind whether we're rich or otherwise. 09:54 From, from Scripture, 09:55 um, God has very poor followers who love Him; 09:58 God has very rich followers who love Him. 10:00 The challenge is--and this is in my own experience-- 10:04 as I became more and more focused and distracted 10:08 on those blessings, 10:09 then I had less and less time, 10:13 and ultimately less and less interest, 10:15 in spending time with God. 10:17 Now, during that whole period, 10:18 this was something going on in my heart. 10:20 No one knew; no one could see this. 10:22 I was still as religious as anybody else at church-- 10:27 you know, supporting all these different programs, 10:29 speaking from the front, all this sort of stuff. 10:32 But in my heart--and this is, this is where the battle was-- 10:34 in my heart I knew that I was lost. 10:37 I knew that I was not in a saving relationship with Jesus, 10:41 and I knew what the cause was. 10:43 >>John: The cause was--put a fine point on it. What was it? 10:46 >>Julian: I could say it was His blessings, 10:49 but it wasn't. 10:50 It was my response to His blessings. 10:51 >>John: Okay. 10:52 >>Julian: And I-- God had blessed me, 10:54 and I had got distracted by those blessings, 10:56 and I had to try and sort that out, 10:59 and that's where the book came from. 11:00 It wasn't meant to be a book. 11:01 It was my own journaling of everything I could find 11:06 in Scripture about my, my battle, 11:09 this faith versus finance battle that I was, that I was in. 11:12 And then it ended up becoming a book. 11:14 But I had to work it out because it was messing with my head. 11:17 It was, it was really messing with me. 11:20 You know, Jesus says, 11:22 "What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world 11:24 and lose his soul?" 11:26 Very few people will know that you're in that situation. 11:29 But in your heart, where nobody else can see, you know, 11:32 and you go, "You know what, 11:33 yeah, I'm sort of gaining the whole world here, 11:35 and I know I'm losing my soul. 11:37 I've got to do something about this." 11:38 >>John: So you think there are many wealthy people today 11:40 who are having this battle? 11:42 >>Julian: You know, when it was happening, 11:44 I thought I was the only one. 11:45 I, I seriously thought I was the only one-- 11:47 because we don't discuss it. 11:48 It's, it's a conversation that is just under the table. 11:51 Because we like to, like the disciples, 11:53 you know, when the rich young ruler came along, 11:55 and Jesus basically said, 11:57 "Look, buddy, you're not going to get into heaven 11:59 unless you sort a few of these things out." 12:01 The disciple says, 12:02 "Well, if he can't be saved, who can be saved?" 12:05 You know, because he was rich; 12:06 he was respected; he was blessed; 12:09 he was a leader, you know, all these different things. 12:10 And they're like, 12:11 "Well, if they're not gonna get into heaven, 12:13 who can get into heaven?" 12:15 And so we just don't discuss it because the fact is, 12:18 as I've learnt over the years as I've traveled the world, 12:21 talking to people in a whole lot of different places 12:22 and a whole lot of different lounge rooms, I might say-- 12:25 very wealthy lounge rooms-- 12:26 uh, a lot of people struggle with it. 12:29 They, they're sitting there, wondering, 12:31 "How can I be saved when I have such a focus on wealth 12:34 that I'm not really letting anybody see?" 12:36 >>John: Isn't it interesting that many, many, 12:38 many average people-- 12:39 and I guess I mean average financially people-- 12:42 really believe that if they only had a ton of money, 12:46 life would be great, and all their problems would be gone? 12:49 You're gonna say, "Not necessarily the case." 12:52 It sounds like you're saying. "Be careful what you wish for." 12:55 >>Julian: Yeah. 12:56 Yeah, it was Oscar Wilde who-- the great Irish playwright-- 12:59 who said, 13:00 "There's only two great tragedies in life: 13:02 one of them is not getting what you want, 13:05 and the other is getting what you want." 13:07 And that was where I didn't realize-- 13:09 I thought that if I got what I wanted, 13:11 everything would be sorted; everything would be okay. 13:14 But then God gave me everything I wanted, 13:15 and more and more, and things weren't okay. 13:20 >>John: Studies, repeated studies have shown 13:22 there's a certain point of income, of earnings, 13:26 beyond which more money does not increase your happiness. 13:31 It varies in the United States from state to state, 13:34 I'm certain, as the cost of living varies. 13:35 But it's not very high. 13:37 Washington, D.C., about $100,000. 13:39 Most states in the United States, 65. 13:42 You can have 66 or 66 million; it won't make you any happier. 13:48 >>John: Do you see that as odd, 13:49 or can you listen to that and go, 13:51 "Yep, I know what that means"? 13:52 >>Julian: Yeah, absolutely. 13:53 Uh, you know, we were talking before 13:55 about the wealthiest adults on the planet 13:57 and how Australians are right up there in second place 13:59 after Switzerland. 14:01 So basically, as, as individual adults-- 14:04 so just, just our families-- 14:05 we are basically wealthier than most average adults, 14:08 most adults around the world. 14:10 We are also the second-highest consumers 14:13 of antidepressant medications on the planet. 14:17 So does money buy happiness? Not at all. 14:19 You know, why, why would we be-- 14:21 are we the second-highest consumers 14:22 because we can afford the pills? 14:24 It's not just because we can afford the pills; 14:26 it's because there's something-- 14:28 we've crossed that $65,000 limit or that $100,000 limit, 14:31 thinking, "Now I'm gonna be happy." 14:35 And we're not. 14:36 And we're going, "Oh, I'm gonna have to medicate." 14:38 [Laughs] You know, as, as, as strangely sad as that sounds, 14:43 that's reality. 14:44 And I've got nothing against antidepressant medication. 14:46 I believe if somebody needs it, they need it. 14:48 But it's just ironic that the second-richest adults 14:51 on the planet are also the second-highest consumers. 14:53 >>John: Now, I sense that there's somebody 14:54 watching us right now who's saying, 14:56 "Man, that's easy for you to say. You've had it all. 14:59 You've had all you wanted with excess, 15:01 but here I am struggling away, barely making ends meet. 15:06 It's easy for you to say." 15:08 Well, it is easy to say, but in a moment when we come back, 15:11 let's talk about why it's easy to believe. 15:13 We'll be right back with more in just a moment. 15:15 Don't go away. 15:16 ♪[Music] 15:25 >>Announcer: When an Italian priest told his congregation 15:28 that he was going on a spiritual retreat 15:30 but was later rescued from a sinking cruise ship, 15:33 he learned an important lesson: Truth matters. 15:35 And the truth matters in the church. 15:38 But a whole lot of what gets passed off as truth 15:40 in the church today isn't. 15:43 Don't miss "The Mouth of Truth" on itiswritten.tv. 15:47 You'll visit captivating Italy, beautiful Bosnia. 15:50 You'll see historical sites that attract people 15:52 from around the world, 15:53 and you'll discover how the church has been affected 15:56 by teachings that don't originate in the Bible. 15:59 Jesus said, "The truth shall make you free." 16:03 As planet earth marches relentlessly 16:05 toward the end of time, deceptions are on the rise. 16:08 But it's the will of Jesus-- 16:10 "the way, the truth, and the life"-- 16:12 to keep us in the safety of His Word. 16:16 You want to avoid deception. 16:19 Don't miss "The Mouth of Truth" on itiswritten.tv. 16:25 >>John Bradshaw: Thank you for remembering 16:26 that It Is Written exists 16:28 because of the kindness of people just like you. 16:30 To support this international life-changing ministry, 16:34 please call us now at 800-253-3000. 16:38 You can send your tax-deductible gift 16:40 to the address on your screen, 16:41 or you can visit us online at itiswritten.com. 16:45 Thank you for your prayers and for your financial support. 16:48 Our number again is 800-253-3000. 16:52 Or you could visit us online at itiswritten.com. 16:56 >>John: Thanks for joining me today on It Is Written. 16:58 My guest is Julian Archer, international speaker and author 17:03 on the subject of money and personal finance. 17:05 It was Jesus who said that it's easier for a camel 17:08 to get through the eye of a needle 17:10 than for a rich man to enter into heaven. 17:12 Clearly, having wealth brings some challenges, 17:16 and wealth can be the cause of challenges 17:18 to a person's spiritual life. 17:20 Now, Julian, as we've discussed this, 17:22 I sense that somebody's saying, 17:24 "Well, man, that's easy for you to say. 17:25 You've had it, you've been through it, 17:27 and maybe you're in the place where you can just choose 17:29 to turn your back on chasing money." 17:32 Why is it that really it can be difficult for a person 17:37 to maintain a relationship with Jesus 17:39 when financial blessings increase? 17:41 >>Julian: Yeah, look, I, I have, uh-- 17:45 I encourage young people to go out and do really well in life, 17:48 whether that be financially or career-wise or whatever it is; 17:51 I encourage them to do that. 17:53 I did the same in my life. 17:56 However, the challenge that I faced 17:59 was that I was losing my spirituality; 18:01 I was losing my relationship with Jesus. 18:02 The higher my wealth went, 18:04 it seemed the less and less time I had to spend with Jesus. 18:06 And so I say to the young people, look, go for it. 18:10 Put everything you've got into it. 18:12 But hang in there with Jesus right the way through 18:15 because you're, otherwise you're gonna get 18:16 to the other end and it's gonna be, 18:18 "Hey, look, I've gained the whole world, 18:19 and I've got nothing; I've lost my soul." 18:22 >>John: So this emphasis that you see 18:24 in some Christian circles about get more, get more, get more, 18:26 "You can have all you want," 18:27 "God wants you to be rich," and so forth-- 18:30 uh, would you see-- 18:32 let me just ask you how you would see that. 18:34 Healthy, unhealthy, somewhere in the middle? 18:36 >>Julian: Yeah... 18:40 Gut feeling, single word-- I would say "unhealthy." 18:42 Uh, but I need to, need to explain that. 18:46 Biblically, we--there certainly are passages and stories 18:48 where Jesus says, and, and God says, you know, 18:51 "Obey me and I will bless you." 18:52 Uh, God wants to bless us. 18:55 However, there's also story after story after story 18:59 of individuals and entire nations 19:02 who turned away from God when they were blessed. 19:05 And if we are going to buy into a scenario 19:11 of "God wants me to be rich," 19:14 then you've really got to have in your chest pocket, 19:17 right near your heart, a ticket that says, 19:20 "I'm not gonna let go of You, Jesus," 19:22 through that process. 19:23 And that's what Jesus was talking about; 19:24 He was talking about the camel... 19:27 having to go through the eye of a needle 19:28 like a rich man getting into heaven. 19:31 It's not easy. 19:33 It may sound easy. 19:34 You may think, "Well, if I had money, 19:35 then I wouldn't have any problems, 19:36 and that would be easy." 19:38 It, it may, may seem to be easy, if you don't have God. 19:40 But if you want to hold onto a saving relationship 19:43 with Jesus Christ during those years, it's, it's-- 19:47 I was gonna say it's hard work, but that sounds legalistic. 19:49 But it's, it's a daily battle. 19:51 You know, Paul says, "I die daily." 19:53 And if we go into the, the Greek of that, 19:55 uh, the word for "I" in his, where he says, "I die daily," 19:59 is "epsilon gamma omega." 20:01 E-G-O. 20:03 Ego dies daily. 20:05 And when you're being blessed, when you're saying, 20:07 "Yeah, God wants me to be rich, 20:08 and here I am-- look, I am being rich now," 20:10 ego just rises up because you get proud. 20:14 You become a Pharisee; you become self-sufficient. 20:16 But your ego has to die daily. 20:18 And I, I, I can tell you, 20:20 killing your ego daily is not easy. 20:22 It's a battle. 20:23 >>John: Let's look at this passage, 20:24 the story where Jesus addressed someone 20:26 who is doing really well financially. 20:28 He came to Jesus. 20:29 I'm gonna read in Matthew chapter 19. 20:30 It says, starting in verse 16, 20:33 "Now behold, one came and said to Him, 'Good Teacher, 20:35 what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?'" 20:38 And Jesus said, "Why do you call me good? 20:40 No one is good but One, [and] that is God. 20:42 But if [you'll]...enter into life, keep [my] commandments." 20:44 The young man said to Jesus, "Which ones?" 20:47 And so Jesus enumerated a number of the commandments. 20:50 The young man then said, 20:51 "I've done that ever since I was a kid. 20:54 What do I still lack?" 20:55 And Jesus said in Matthew 19 and 21, 20:58 "If you want to be perfect, go, 21:00 sell what you have and give to the poor, 21:03 and you will have treasure in heaven; 21:05 and come, [and] follow me." 21:07 And what's really interesting-- what's tragic is verse 22 says, 21:11 "The young man heard that saying ...[and] went away sorrowful 21:15 ...[because] he had great possessions." 21:18 He was a wealthy young fellow. 21:20 >>Julian: Hmm. 21:22 >>John: What was Jesus really getting at here? 21:24 Did He really mean sell everything, 21:26 or is this allegorical? 21:28 Why did he say that to the rich young ruler? 21:31 >>Julian: Well, it's interesting that Jesus 21:32 right up said five commandments. 21:35 He said, "Don't do this; don't do this; don't do this." 21:37 And the guys says, "Well, I've done that since my youth." 21:38 And then Jesus says, "One thing you lack." 21:40 Well, what was the one thing? 21:42 Well, it happened to be the sixth commandment 21:44 that He hadn't quoted out of the last ten. 21:46 >>John: Thou shalt not covet. 21:47 >>Julian: Exactly. "One thing you lack." 21:49 And, uh, He was speaking the truth. 21:52 I mean, Jesus knows, knows this guy's heart. 21:55 But then He comes along and He says, 21:56 "Sell it all. Give it away and come and follow me, 21:59 and you'll have treasure in heaven." 22:01 You know, when I, when I was in business, 22:03 and I was still very actively involved in church, 22:08 this story was the worst story in Scripture for me. 22:14 As, as a "rich young ruler," 22:16 you know, as an affluent young businessman, 22:19 I just hated it because I kept thinking that God was telling me 22:24 that I've got to give away everything in order 22:25 to be a disciple. 22:27 And at first reading, you could say, "Yeah, well, it does." 22:32 I then said, "No, no, it's just for him. 22:36 One guy, one point in time." 22:37 And it was like, whew, that was close, you know? 22:39 I nearly had to sell everything. 22:41 And then I went across to Luke 12:33, 22:43 and here's Jesus saying it again. 22:45 He's saying, if, you know, "Unless you sell everything, 22:47 you can't be my disciple," 22:48 and this time He's talking to the disciples, 22:50 the twelve disciples. 22:51 Two chapters later, Luke 14:33, Jesus is at it again. 22:55 But this time He's talking to an entire multitude and He says, 22:58 "You've got to sell everything you've got 22:59 to come and follow me." 23:00 Hah. And I'm like, "Yeah, this is-- 23:05 nah, this is really heavy." 23:06 So, I got in and I studied the Greek on it, 23:09 at that, where He was talking to the rich young ruler. 23:12 And I found that where He says, 23:15 "Sell all that you own and come and follow me," 23:18 can also be translated, 23:20 "Sell all that owns you and come and follow me." 23:25 And I believe that's what Jesus was saying. 23:27 And we know-- 23:28 I, you know, I knew in my heart the things that owned me. 23:33 And I think what Jesus was saying was, 23:36 "Take everything out of your life 23:38 that is getting between you and me, that is getting-- 23:42 that is distracting you from this eternal, 23:45 saving relationship. 23:47 Whatever owns you, 23:48 get rid of that and then come and follow me." 23:50 >>John: This is gonna, this is gonna differ 23:51 from person to person, obviously. 23:53 >>Julian: Exactly. And that's the thing. 23:54 Isn't that the beautiful thing about salvation? 23:55 Salvation--that relationship with Jesus is different 23:58 for every person. 24:00 I don't believe Jesus is telling every Christian 24:02 to sell everything so that we can follow Him. 24:04 It, it would just be a whole crazy different religion 24:08 that we're involved in. 24:10 But I do believe He's telling us to get everything 24:12 out of our lives that's getting between us and Him. 24:14 >>John: So the fact of the matter is 24:16 the guy who has the Lamborghini parked in his garage, 24:18 that might be just perfectly fine for one guy, 24:21 destructive for another. 24:23 >>Julian: Absolutely. 24:24 >>John: The person who's got the magnificent holiday home 24:25 wherever he has it-- or the homes-- 24:27 or he or she, wherever-- 24:29 that might be okay for one person. 24:31 And we mustn't judge people, right? 24:33 Because somebody may have an expensive car 24:34 that ultimately is an investment, 24:35 or properties that they're gonna liquidate and give to the Lord. 24:38 It's not for us to judge anybody. 24:40 So it differs from person to person. 24:43 Couldn't that be just giving a person an escape hatch 24:45 where that person now says, 24:46 "I heard what Julian said, 24:48 but, you know, my fleet of fancy cars doesn't own me. 24:51 Everything's okay." 24:52 >>Julian: Yeah. 24:53 >>John: Could be an escape hatch, right? 24:54 >>Julian: It could be. 24:55 The--and it is individual, person to person, very true-- 24:58 but what is not individual, person to person, 25:01 is when Jesus says that it's easier for a camel 25:04 to go through the eye of a needle 25:05 than for a rich person to get into heaven. 25:07 So, the person might have the Lamborghini 25:10 and all the homes and all the rest of it. 25:11 If they do, it will be extremely difficult for them 25:15 to get into heaven. 25:16 Jesus said that; I'm not saying that. 25:17 That's, that's what Jesus said. 25:18 He said that's the fact, 25:21 and then He had period at the end of it. 25:22 He didn't say, "But if..." or anything. 25:24 He just said, "Hey, look, if, if you're rich, 25:26 if, you know, even if God's blessed you with your riches, 25:30 it's gonna be really difficult for you to get into heaven." 25:32 Because riches have this little thing that they do 25:34 on your heart, and you tend to get distracted by them, 25:36 and you, you lose that saving relationship. 25:39 >>John: Two questions-- we don't have a lot of time. 25:41 Two questions. 25:42 Uh, let's make this as practical as we can. 25:44 Somebody's wealthy-- and wealth varies, you know-- 25:48 somebody's doing well, 25:49 and they know that their stuff's starting to own them 25:51 and that they're struggling in their relationship with Jesus-- 25:53 focus is in the wrong place. 25:55 What's your advice what to do? 25:57 >>Julian: Uh, work out some way of-- 26:02 and it will depend on what, on what situation they're in. 26:04 If they're owning a business, 26:05 then they may have an opportunity 26:06 to give half of the business to God-- 26:09 or 90 percent, 95, 99. 26:11 I've seen people give 100 percent of the business to God 26:13 and just be paid a wage out of it. 26:15 So there, there are things that you can do along, 26:17 along those lines that is sort of the practical accounting 26:20 nuts-and-bolts sides of things. 26:22 Uh, but ultimately, it's get down on your knees. 26:26 It's get down on your knees more and more and more. 26:29 That's, that's the solution to trying to sort this out. 26:34 Because ultimately, the riches are somewhat irrelevant. 26:38 You can, as we've already discussed, 26:39 you can be affluent and still have 26:41 a really strong daily relationship with Christ, 26:44 but they do tend to get in the way, 26:47 so we've got to get back to that relationship, 26:49 that "first love," as Jesus called it. 26:51 >>John: Second question for you: Why does God give wealth? 26:55 What's the purpose? 26:56 Just to bless us for our faithfulness, 26:57 or is there a greater purpose? 26:59 >>Julian: Yeah. He loves us, 27:01 and He wants to bless others through us, 27:04 and at the same time we are blessed. 27:05 "It's more blessed to give than to receive." 27:07 So He's giving us a privilege, an opportunity to feel 27:09 those blessings of giving to others in need. 27:11 >>John: Some people don't want to give away what they've got. 27:13 What would you say to them? 27:15 >>Julian: Go down on your knees. 27:17 [laughs] It's really, yeah, it's really--it's God's. 27:21 It's God's, and He wants you to give it. 27:23 And you will be so blessed when you do. 27:26 >>John: So wealth is okay? 27:29 >>Julian: Yes. 27:29 >>John: Being rich is okay? 27:31 >>Julian: Mm-hmm. 27:32 >>John: You can be a successful Christian and be wealthy? 27:34 >>Julian: Yes. 27:35 >>John: But at the end of the day, 27:36 we have to remember it all belongs to-- 27:38 >>Julian: God. 27:39 >>John: It all belongs to God. 27:41 And if we keep that in mind, then we might see some camels 27:44 squeezing their way through the eye of a needle. 27:47 ♪[Music] 27:56 >>Announcer: The pursuit of wealth 27:58 has been the ruin of many people. 28:00 God promises to bless His people financially. 28:03 But often, God's blessings can turn into a curse. 28:05 Get your free copy of "God Will Provide" 28:08 and learn the recipe to financial success. 28:11 Call 800-253-3000, 28:14 800-253-3000. 28:17 You can write to the address on your screen 28:19 or visit us online at iiwoffer.com. 28:22 Get "God Will Provide"-- iiwoffer.com. 28:27 >>John Bradshaw: Julian, thank you. 28:28 It's really been a blessing. Thanks for joining me. 28:30 >>Julian: Thank you, it's been great to be here. 28:31 >>John: Let's pray together now. 28:33 Our Father in heaven, 28:34 we are grateful for Your many blessings. 28:36 They come in so many different ways. 28:38 Frequently, You bless us financially, 28:41 but we see the danger of allowing our blessings 28:44 to be anything but a blessing. 28:46 So grant that we will keep things in focus, 28:48 that however we do financially, materially, 28:50 we will remember that everything belongs to You, 28:53 that we are Yours, and Jesus is ours. 28:56 Grant us the opportunity and the desire 28:59 to allow our blessings to be a blessing to others. 29:03 Work through us, both to will and to do, 29:05 for Your good pleasure. 29:07 We thank You, and we pray in Jesus' name. 29:10 Amen. 29:11 Thanks so much for joining us today. 29:13 I'm looking forward to seeing you again next time. 29:15 Until then, remember: 29:17 "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, 29:21 but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'" 29:26 ♪[Theme music] 29:36 ♪[Theme music] |
Revised 2018-10-11