Participants:
Series Code: IIW
Program Code: IIW017139A
01:30 [Music]
01:40 [Music] 01:50 JB: This is It Is Written. I'm John Bradshaw. 01:52 Thanks for joining me. We both know that there are some things 01:55 in life that we are going to experience no matter what. 01:58 And some of those experiences we wouldn't choose to experience 02:02 if we had a choice. But many of them, we don't have a choice. 02:06 One of them is grief. Grief hurts, it's painful, and you're 02:12 going to experience sooner or later. That's just the way life 02:16 goes. But what is grief, and how do we deal with grief, and what 02:20 should a person do --what could a person do, when grief strikes 02:24 close to home? Well, I'm blessed to have with me in the studio 02:27 today a good friend, Mike Tucker. Pastor Mike Tucker who's 02:31 the speaker and director of Faith for Today, a Christian 02:34 ministry. You may well have seen Pastor Tucker hosting Lifestyle 02:38 Magazine or leading out in one of his "Mad About Marriage" 02:42 Seminars. Mike Tucker, thanks for joining me today. 02:44 Mike Tucker: It is a joy to be here with you, John. Thank you. 02:47 JB: I'm going to start at the beginning. What's grief? 02:50 How do we define that? 02:51 MT: Grief is an emotional, psychological, physical reaction 02:55 to any experience of loss. It can be loss through death, loss 02:59 of a job, loss of a body part --anything else in your life 03:03 that is significant, there may be a grief response to it. 03:06 JB: Now, one of the reasons I'm speaking with you is because 03:08 you're a trained counselor. MT: Um-hmm. JB: A licensed marriage 03:12 therapist, family expert. And you have some experience with 03:17 grief as well, and we're going to talk about that in just a 03:19 moment. Grief is just one of those things that everybody is 03:23 going to experience. MT: Everyone. You don't get out of 03:24 life without grief. And most of your viewers have already had 03:28 some experience with grief. To what degree? That varies 03:32 according to life experiences. But everyone gets it. Everyone 03:36 has it. Some people think that Christians shouldn't grieve. 03:39 That's just a misnomer. You have to grieve. Everyone grieves. 03:41 JB: Now, there are certain things that you might ought 03:43 to do when grief comes. MT: Yeah. JB: We'll talk about 03:45 those soon. MT: Sure. JB: So before we explain it. 03:49 There's probably ways you can equip yourself 03:50 to deal with grief before it comes. MT: Um-hmm. 03:53 JB: Okay. MT: Yeah, especially if you see a loss 03:56 coming, you can engage in what we call anticipatory grief: 03:59 being willing to go ahead and experience those tears, and 04:02 trying to anticipate what life will be like without them. But I 04:05 think beyond that is a matter of keeping relationships healthy, 04:09 and keeping yourself personally health: physically fit, with 04:13 positive relationships and a positive faith. But having an 04:16 appropriate picture of the nature of God, his personality, 04:20 his character --what he has promised you, what he has not 04:23 promised you --will actually help prepare you for grief. 04:25 JB: Okay, now, so you can grieve about different things. MT: Yeah 04:27 JB: I could, I could lose a cherished possession. MT: Yes. 04:32 JB: I can grieve that. MT: Um-hmm. JB: Okay, what are the 04:35 inappropriate ways to deal with grief? What are the grief 04:38 mistakes that people often make? MT: Some people try to stuff it 04:42 or ignore it, act like it's not there. They will deny it. Other 04:48 people will try to out-medicate it, out-drink it, something of 04:52 that nature. Some people will try to outwork it. They just 04:55 won't give expression to the pain by crying. They won't allow 04:59 themselves to do those things. Those are all inappropriate 05:02 ways. Another inappropriate way would be to build a shrine to, 05:05 to that which is lost. You know, sometimes people build a shrine 05:09 in their home to a person who's died, and for years on, no one 05:13 can touch that. You know, to do something like that temporarily 05:16 may be understandable. But when you do this and it lasts for 05:19 years, that can be another inappropriate way to deal with 05:22 it. But just a refusal to deal with the pain, to give 05:25 expression through tears, through talking --those are all 05:28 inappropriate responses. JB: As a pastor I speak from time to 05:31 time with people who will tell me, "Oh, I'm doing fine." 05:33 MT: Yeah. JB: Or, or they'll tell me, "I'm not doing 05:36 fine." I'll dig a little deeper and... MT: Um-hmm. 05:38 JB: ...you know, "It's been six weeks since my loved one died, 05:42 and I find myself still weeping, and I just wish I was...." 05:46 That's just not realistic, is it? 05:47 MT: No, it's not. The average recovery time for a 05:49 significant loss is one to two years, although you can grieve 05:51 actively for up to five years and not be pathological with 05:54 that grief. And even when we talk about recovery, that 05:57 doesn't mean that you won't ever cry again. It doesn't mean you 06:00 won't miss that person again. That will be a part of your 06:03 experience for the rest of your life, especially with a 06:05 significant loss. But it may mean that you come to the point 06:08 where it's not the first thing on your mind every morning when 06:10 you wake up, and the last thing you think about before you go to 06:13 bed, when you finally get to that point of recovery, so that 06:16 you can function more normally. JB: I think it's important for 06:18 people to know what's normal... MT: Yeah. JB: ...what's 06:20 acceptable, so that they don't think they have a problem they 06:23 don't have. I remember asking my wife's grandmother --Grandma was 06:30 around 80 at the time, and I discovered that she'd had a baby 06:35 girl. She raised three or four boys. I should know whether it's 06:39 three or four, shouldn't I? MT: [Laughs] JB: And she gave birth 06:42 to a little girl who died very, very young, as an infant. And so 06:46 this loss that she'd experience had been about 60 years before, 06:52 55 to 60 years before. And I said to her, "Grandma, you had a 06:56 daughter. I never knew that." And she said, "Yes, I -" and 07:01 just from out of nowhere, her voice choked and tears came. 07:05 MT: Yeah, yes. JB: Fifty-five to sixty years later, she was 07:08 grieving a loss. MT: Um-hmm. JB: That's normal, isn't it? 07:10 MT: Yes, it is normal. There's nothing wrong with that. Because 07:13 this is an impactful experience for your life. You never get 07:17 over, truly, the loss. You, you may be more comfortable with it; 07:21 you may be able to function again. But you may have tears 07:24 over this loss for the rest of your life. JB: Let's say 07:27 somebody is a secretary working in an office situation. MT: Yeah 07:30 JB: Well, it doesn't have to be a secretary. It could be a 07:32 departmental director. Or a guy works in a factory. 07:35 MT: Uh-huh. JB: So you're surrounded by 07:37 people. You've got to go back to life. You're putting in your 07:39 eight to ten hours a day. MT: Um-hmm. 07:41 JB: But grief is just all over you, and grief begs expression. 07:48 What's the right thing for people to do? 07:50 MT: Well, the right thing for you to do if you're the person 07:52 experiencing this is to recognize that your tears are 07:55 going to come, and that's okay. And when they come, don't make 07:58 an apology for them. Just allow it to happen. And if the people 08:01 around you are savvy and they are, they are understanding, 08:05 then they're going to accept that, and it's going to be 08:06 normal. So I would say, make sure that you give yourself 08:10 ample room for, for mistakes. You make sure you double-check 08:14 your work. Take frequent breaks if possible. Um, and then don't 08:18 be afraid to give expression to the pain. Don't be afraid to 08:21 cry, and don't be afraid to tell the stories, because that's all 08:24 a part of the process. JB: So, to experience grief and to 08:29 internalize grief, to express grief, is all appropriate and, 08:33 and fine. MT: It is. JB: But when's a person going too far? 08:37 I know, this may, it's going to differ from person to person. 08:41 MT: It will. JB: And, uh, you get the very unthinking people 08:44 who say, "Are you not over that already? It's been six months." 08:48 MT: Yeah. JB: That's the last thing you want to say to a 08:50 person. When is expressing grief become --when does that become 08:53 too much? MT: To give a timeline or a specific answer to that is 08:57 difficult. But there comes a time when grief no longer 08:59 becomes an expression of your pain, but becomes a monument to 09:03 self-pity. Sometimes we can like the negative attention we get 09:07 from the expression of pain. And again, that may not happen the 09:10 first year. It may not happen until after that. But there 09:14 comes a time when you realize that you, you're doing nothing 09:16 but grieving. And you're telling the stories; you're crying with 09:19 every event. Everything becomes about your loss. That becomes 09:22 very selfish and it becomes rather myopic. And so, to learn 09:27 that there are appropriate times to give expression to this, and 09:29 there comes the time when you actually have to say goodbye to 09:33 the relationship that used to be, and withdraw that emotional 09:36 energy, and no longer make this a monument to you and to your 09:39 self-pity, but, instead, begin to celebrate the life that was, 09:43 and celebrate the things that you had. Again, that's going to 09:46 vary for every person, but there does come a time when it's 09:49 appropriate to do that. JB: Now, you're speaking to this 09:52 subject... MT: Yes. JB: ...from first-hand experience. 09:55 MT: Absolutely. JB: We're going to talk about that in just a 09:57 moment. More with Pastor Mike Tucker and grief when we 10:01 come back. Don't go away. 10:09 Grief. Sadly, it's an inevitable part of life. There's no 10:12 escaping loss in this world and the pain that comes along 10:15 with it. Grief can be disabling, intense and debilitating. So 10:20 make sure you get your free copy of "Coping with Grief" by 10:22 John Bradshaw. There is a way through life's 10:25 toughest times. Learn how you or someone you care about can cope 10:29 with grief. Discover principles that will show you how to return 10:32 to a life full of joy and hope. Please, don't let grief be any 10:36 more difficult than it has to be. When the burdens of loss 10:39 seem to be more than you can handle, there is a way you can 10:42 cope with grief. To receive the book "Coping with Grief," call 10:45 right now 1-800-253-3000. There's absolutely no cost or 10:50 obligation, and our lines are open 24 hours a day. If the 10:54 lines are busy, please try again. We'll send 10:57 "Coping with Grief" free to any address in North America. Call 11:01 1-800-253-3000, or you can write to us at It Is Written, 11:06 P O Box 6, Chattanooga,TN, 37401. To download a free 11:11 electronic version of "Coping with Grief," please visit us 11:14 online at ItIsWritten.com. To get your free copy of 11:18 "Coping with Grief," call right now, 1-800-253-3000. 11:23 JB: It Is Written is a faith - based ministry, and your 11:26 support makes it possible for us to share God's good news with 11:30 the world. Your tax-deductible gift can be sent to the address 11:33 on your screen, or through our website at ItIsWritten.com. 11:38 Thank you for your continued prayerful support. 11:41 [Music] 11:44 JB: This is It Is Written. I'm John Bradshaw. Thanks for 11:47 joining me today. My guest is Pastor Mike Tucker from 11:50 Faith for Today. Mike, we've been talking for a few moments 11:53 about grief. We alluded to your personal experience with grief. 11:57 MT: Um-hmm. JB: Tell me more about that. 11:58 MT: Recently I've had the biggest loss of my life. 12:02 My wife of forty years, Gayle Tucker, passed away. You know, 12:07 we were partners in ministry. Uh, we had worked together as 12:11 pastors and in television ministry for forty years. 12:15 Everything I did was intricately involved with her. JB: It wasn't 12:18 really a matter of Mike Tucker. MT: No. JB: It was Mike and 12:22 Gayle. MT: Mike and Gayle. JB: Mike and Gayle. Mike and Gayle. 12:24 MT: Mike and Gayle. Everything we did. Television, marriage 12:27 seminars, pastoral ministries. She was a pastor as well. So 12:30 every aspect of my life was intricately involved with her. 12:32 She was my very best friend. We were traveling all over the, the 12:36 world doing marriage seminars, among other things. And we were 12:39 in Vancouver, British Columbia, when her right hand started to 12:42 go numb. She thought she had slept on it wrong. But by 12:47 Saturday afternoon when we were doing a marriage presentation, 12:49 her right hand would work so poorly that she had to hold the 12:52 microphone in her left hand for three and a half hours making 12:54 the presentation, because she knew it would fall to the floor 12:57 if she held it in the right. I said, "This is wrong, we got, 12:59 I've got to get you to the hospital." She said, "Wait till 13:01 we get back in the country, tomorrow," which would be March 13:04 6. I said, "Okay." So we flew to Dallas, and when we landed, I 13:09 said, "Now, which hospital do you want me to take you to, 13:11 because you're not going home." And so she told me which 13:13 hospital, I took her there, and immediately they diagnosed 13:16 strokes. When is insane to me, because the woman was so active. 13:20 She was not overweight, no cholesterol. I mean, no risk 13:24 factor for stroke. JB: The picture of health. 13:26 MT: Absolutely. She played volleyball every week with a 13:29 group of ladies she'd play volleyball with for over 20 13:31 years. And it took another week and a half of testing to figure 13:33 out that she had stage four pancreatic cancer that had 13:37 already metastasized to her liver. And the liver, one of the 13:41 side effects of liver cancer, can be a condition they call 13:44 "sticky blood," which means it was creating blood clots in her 13:47 body, and when those broke apart it went to the brain, and that's 13:50 where the strokes came from. The stroke was a symptom. She was 13:53 going to die of pancreatic cancer. JB: Now, if you don't 13:57 mind. MT: Please. JB: She was going to die. MT: Yes. JB: 14:00 Pancreatic cancer typically is a one-way street. MT: Yes, it is. 14:03 JB: But... MT: Yeah. JB: People can be healed. MT: Yes. JB: God 14:07 is a great God. MT: Yes. JB: You know God well. MT: Absolutely. 14:11 JB: You have for many years. MT: Um-hmm. JB: But you felt then 14:14 --how did you process that? Were you living on hope, were praying 14:16 for her to be healed, or how quickly did you get to 14:20 resignation, I think we're going to lose her? MT: You know, I, I 14:23 was realistic enough to realize that unless God performed a 14:27 miracle, I was going to lose my wife. And she knew that as well. 14:30 I've worked as a chaplain in hospitals for years. I've done, 14:35 I've seen enough of this. I've worked with hospice patients. I 14:37 know, and she knew as well, that unless God intervened, we were 14:41 going to lose her. And she was ready. She was, she was okay 14:46 with that. She wanted to be healed. We had an anointing 14:48 service, as is called for in James. And we, we had a prayer 14:52 for healing, believing fully that God could heal her. Because 14:54 I, like you, have seen miraculous healing. JB: Sure 14:58 And so I knew that God was capable. But I also know, and 15:01 knew, that God might say no. At least, right now. Every prayer 15:06 for healing is answered yes. Sometimes immediately. 15:08 Sometimes over time with prayer and medicine and surgery. And 15:12 sometimes the healing will take place resurrection. 15:14 JB: That's right. MT: We asked for option 15:16 A or B, but we're willing to accept option C. 15:19 And so yes, I knew that this was a real 15:22 possibility, and she did too. So we prepared for the worst while 15:25 hoping for the best. JB: You said Gayle was okay with that. 15:29 MT: Yeah. JB: Tell me, if you wouldn't mind, what she went 15:33 through. There's your wife of 40 years, someone--everyone who 15:37 knew her, loved her. So you weren't alone in that. MT: Yeah. 15:41 JB: How does a person take that kind of news? Gayle at stage 4 15:45 pancreatic cancer. It's metastasized. We know the 15:47 chances are about this good. MT: Yeah, yeah. JB: How does a 15:50 person deal with that? MT: You know, obviously it was a big 15:53 blow to her. And it took her a while to just kind of digest 15:57 this. And when she began to realize it, I asked her, "Are 16:00 you angry? Are you frightened?" She said, "No." She said, "I've 16:04 had sixty years of immaculate health." And she had. I mean, 16:07 she was vibrate and healthy and active. And she said, "Some 16:11 people never get a day. I've had forty years of a wonderful 16:14 marriage, and some people never know that. I've had over forty 16:17 years of exciting ministry, fulfilling ministry. I've got 16:20 children and grandchildren and extended family and friends. And 16:23 some people never know any of that. For me to be angry that 16:26 that only lasted sixty years instead of eighty seems to be 16:29 somewhat ungrateful, and I'm not going to be ungrateful to my 16:32 Lord. I just thank him for what I've had." JB: Amen. MT: That 16:35 was her attitude. JB: Wow. MT: And she got that attitude early 16:38 on. She never experienced fear, because she knew her heart was 16:41 right with Jesus. She never experienced anger, because she 16:45 was grateful for what she'd had. And amazingly, I had already had 16:49 the same thoughts --which is strange for me, because, 16:52 truthfully, anger has always been my go-to emotion. But I'd 16:55 gone through a previous loss, a financial and a career loss, at 16:59 an early point. We lost our house. We lost our savings. I 17:02 thought I'd lost my career. I thought it was all over. And I 17:05 hadn't done anything. And my response was anger. Because at 17:08 the time I was giving 30 percent of my gross income to the 17:11 church. I was volunteering as a pastor while working in private 17:14 business. All sorts of exciting things were happening with the 17:17 church. It was growing like crazy. And my anger was, "God, 17:20 what did you want? Forty percent? I don't get it." I 17:23 thought because of my hard labor, my generosity, the 17:27 success of the ministry, that God owed me better than what he 17:30 gave me. And when I realized that anger comes when we think 17:33 we're getting less from God than what he owes us, then I began to 17:37 realize that I had sinned in my life by expecting something from 17:41 God he'd never promised. I confessed that to him, and he 17:44 forgave me. And I promised, by God's grace, I would make sure 17:48 my lived theology would be congruent with my expressed or 17:54 my preached theology. And that happened. So that when Gayle got 17:58 sick, I realized, I've had a blessing that was beyond what 18:02 most people ever experience. JB:So you weren't experiencing 18:04 anger either. MT: No anger either. In fact, it's been six 18:07 months since her death, and I'm still not angry. JB: Forty years 18:10 of marriage. MT: Yeah. JB: A catastrophic loss. MT: Yes. 18:14 JB: No anger. MT: No anger. There's incredible pain. JB:Sure 18:18 There's incredible emptiness and loneliness. There's, there's, I 18:23 cry at unexpected times. But no anger. Because God has not 18:26 shortchanged me one iota. He has given me more than what he ever 18:30 promised me. And so since he has given me more than what he 18:34 promised, I have no reason for anger, because most people never 18:37 experience what I've had. I celebrate what I've had. I miss 18:41 what I've had. But I'm not angry with God. JB: There's more. 18:45 We're going to come back to the story we began in just a moment. 18:48 Pastor Mike Tucker, we're dealing today with grief 18:51 --something we all must experience, and something that, 18:55 if it hasn't come near you, it will. Today's program very 18:59 important. We'll be back with more in just a moment. 19:03 "Every Word" is a one-minute, Bible-based daily devotional 19:06 presented by Pastor John Bradshaw and designed especially 19:09 for busy people like you. Recieve a daily spiritual boost. 19:13 Watch "Every Word." 19:16 [Music] 19:20 JB: It's an enormous shame when 19:22 people lose hope in God. But it happens. And it's happened to 19:25 some outstanding people. Think about John the Baptist and his 19:28 temporary discouragement. The cousin of Jesus had boldly 19:32 proclaimed, "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of 19:35 the world." But one day he sent some of his disciples to ask 19:38 Jesus, "Are you the coming one, or do we look for another?" 19:42 That's Matthew 11, verse 3. John had been convinced. But now he's 19:45 in prison, and Jesus, who he believed to be the Messiah, 19:49 hadn't got the Romans out of Israel, and hadn't got John out 19:52 of prison. John knew Jesus was the Messiah, but he let go of 19:57 faith and started to make judgments by what he could see. 20:00 John couldn't see too well. Jesus was the Messiah, still is. 20:04 And our difficult circumstances won't ever change that. I'm John 20:09 Bradshaw for It Is Written. Let's live today by every word." 20:15 [Music] 20:17 JB: Thanks for joining me today on It Is Written. I'm 20:19 John Bradshaw. My guest today, from Faith for Today, Pastor 20:22 Mike Tucker. Mike, we're talking about your own experience with 20:25 grief. MT: Um-hmm. JB: A couple of moments ago you shared how 20:29 Gayle was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer. We got about 20:34 to the place where she was accepting of this diagnosis and 20:38 ready for whatever God had for her. So what happened next? 20:41 MT: Well, you know, we got the diagnosis March 16 of 2016. 20:45 First symptoms March 3 to March 6, and then the diagnosis March 20:50 16. And so we began to examine our options. We were praying for 20:54 healing. But she wanted to be home. And so we took her home. 20:59 Started with home health, and eventually went to hospice when 21:02 it was appropriate. But basically, she wanted to get as 21:05 strong as she could and enjoy the time she had with her 21:07 family. So we started calling in family members. We had to limit 21:11 the number of friend visits because we have so many in the 21:14 area, and it was draining for her. JB: Sure. MT: And so, so 21:17 many I wanted to bring in, but I couldn't. But she just started 21:21 spending her days making sure that things were right between 21:24 her and the Lord, and that she spent as much time with her 21:26 children and grandchildren and siblings and her mother as 21:30 possible. And so there were days of joy and days of laughter. And 21:34 she entered into a coma on April 8, and then passed away April 10 21:40 She was, her daughters were by her side. I was with, with 21:44 her. One of the, the sisters were with her. She passed 21:47 peacefully while we were praying with her and touching her and 21:50 loving on her. And she fell asleep in Jesus on April 10 in 21:54 the afternoon, about 5:47 p.m. JB: Now, the first symptoms. 22:01 MT: Yeah. JB: March 3. MT: March 3, when her hand went 22:05 numb. JB: And then goodbye. MT: April 10. JB: Six weeks. 22:09 MT: Yeah. JB: There are couple of 22:13 questions I could ask at once. One is, that's really quick. 22:18 MT: Very quick. JB: From having your ministry 22:19 partner, your life partner, you're traveling together, 22:21 you're doing God's work. And she's, evidently, in full 22:24 health. MT: Full health. JB: Six weeks later she's gone. 22:27 MT: Yeah. JB: At the same time, Mike, that's not quick. Quick is 22:31 hit by a bus. MT: Yeah, yeah. JB: That's quick. MT: Yeah. 22:34 JB: So I wonder if you can talk with me about, about the 22:37 emotions that you experienced and how you dealt with, or how 22:40 you're dealing with... MT: Um-hmm. 22:42 JB: ...uh, losing a perfectly health wife, just like that. 22:46 Where does that take you? How do you wrestle with that? 22:50 MT: I wanted to be as strong as I could 22:51 around her. But I, I wept like crazy. Just trying to get my 22:55 mind around, anticipating what it was going to be like without 22:58 her, and just accepting the reality that unless Jesus 23:01 intervened, I was going to lose her. The things that I've been 23:03 trying to do is, is to think. When the thoughts come, I think 23:07 them fully. I weep when the, when the tears come. I talk 23:11 about it, I, I share my feelings with other people. I write about 23:15 it. Um, I pray about it. Those things are helpful. The other 23:20 thing I do is I walk. When I'm home, I walk anywhere from eight 23:23 to twelve miles a day. Those are prayer time for me, and it's 23:26 thinking time. It gives me the opportunity to focus on nothing 23:29 more than, than my loss and my God and, and my prayer time. And 23:34 those things have helped me. Talking with my family, talking 23:36 with friends, telling the stories over and over again. Not 23:40 just the stories of her loss and the death, but the stories of 23:43 our life together. JB: Sure. MT: Of meeting her, the first date, 23:47 you know, and the proposal. Telling those stories over and 23:51 over again are important to me. And then the stories of ministry 23:54 together, the different places we've been, the decisions for 23:57 Christ we've witnesses. Those are the things that are helping 24:00 me. And then being close to my family, just holding onto my 24:03 daughters, my grandchildren, and helping them grieve as well. 24:06 Those are the activities. But before Gayle died, she wrote a 24:10 letter to each of our children and to our two grandchildren. It 24:14 was a letter to be given to them about six weeks after the death. 24:17 By write I mean she dictated and I had to type, because her hand 24:20 didn't work and she had lost her sight by the end. And after she 24:23 finished that, she said, "I need to write a letter to you." I 24:25 said, "Well, we have no one to dictate that to. I mean, 24:28 basically, you're stuck. And what are you going to say to me 24:30 you haven't said every day for forty years anyway?" She said, 24:33 "You may be right." I said, "So, for argument's sake, what would 24:35 you say?" She said, "There's nothing to regret. We had a 24:39 great life together. Don't, don't beat yourself up for any 24:42 mistakes. No regrets. That's number one." And number two, she 24:45 said, "Live our life." That's what she wanted for me. Our life 24:49 has been faith, family and ministry. That's who we are, 24:56 that's what we've done. JB: I want to ask you this. No 24:58 regrets. MT: Yeah. JB: Easy to say. MT: Oh, yeah. JB: Easy to 25:02 say, no regrets. Hey, Mike, when I'm gone, have no regrets. 25:05 MT: Yeah. JB: Really? MT: Yeah. JB: Do you have any regrets? 25:07 MT: I really don't. You know, I've made mistakes. JB: Sure. 25:10 MT: I haven't been the perfect husband. But every time I think 25:13 of those things, I remember what she said. No regrets. That means 25:16 that she had forgiven me for any mistake, just as I've forgiven 25:18 her. JB: I think it's important to be able to look back on 25:21 mistakes made... MT: Yeah. JB: ...within the context. We're 25:23 human, we're going to make mistakes. MT: Yeah, absolutely. 25:25 She had an amazing memory. She could forget every mistake I 25:28 ever made. So why would I beat myself up over something that 25:32 she had forgiven me for? God has forgiven me, and he says he 25:35 remembers my sins no more. So for me to remember it and bring 25:38 it up seems foolhardy. JB: What I believe is that even when you 25:41 have some kind of catastrophe in your life, if you're a believer 25:45 in God, you can still see God's hand. MT: Yeah. JB: Right? Is 25:49 that right? MT: Yeah. JB: Did you see God's hand through this 25:52 process. MT: Yes, I did. JB: How do you see God's hand in what's 25:55 a disaster? MT: Yeah. The first place I see it is in the way she 25:59 died. She died as she lived. And when people saw the congruence 26:03 between what she lived and how she died, they were brought to 26:07 faith. Another way that I see this is that, even though we've 26:10 had a close-knit family, this has brought us even closer 26:13 together. My daughters and I are tight. And I, I don't make 26:17 decisions without them. But another thing is that as I've 26:21 given expression to my pain. I've written about it. I've 26:23 shared it openly from the pulpit. And when they see me 26:27 doing this, it gives them courage and gives them hope. 26:29 Those are some of the, just a few of the ways that I see God's 26:33 hand in this. JB: We just have a moment. Someone's experiencing 26:37 grief... MT: Yeah. JB: ...and it just seems like the end. 26:42 MT: Yeah. JB: Now, very obviously, one can go on, 26:47 because for six thousand years of human history people have... 26:49 MT: We've done so. JB: ...been going on. Yeah. 26:50 MT: We've done so. JB: What do you say 26:52 to that person who's grieving, uh, and just sees 26:56 blackness ahead? How can that person go on? MT: First of all, 27:01 this won't last forever. It will seem like it. But the darkest 27:04 part of it will not last forever. God has promised to be 27:07 a very present help in this time, even though at times he 27:10 seems even further away because of your pain. That's normal. 27:13 He's promised to get you through this. He will. JB: The Bible 27:16 promises us, in Psalm 30 and verse 5, "Weeping may endure for 27:22 a night, but joy comes in the morning." Is that your 27:27 experience? MT: It is. JB: Is there joy? MT: Yes, there's 27:30 still joy. It, it comes now in moments, and at times I see a 27:34 little bit more of it. I see it in my grandchildren; they're 3 27:37 and 5, and when they want to come play with Papa. They miss 27:40 Grammie like crazy and they cry, but they like to play with Papa, 27:44 and I see the joy of life in their eyes. That's joy for me. 27:48 When I preach and I see people respond to a message, that's joy 27:51 to me. When they respond to the television programs, I have joy 27:55 there. I have joy with my daughters. There's still joy in 27:58 life. It's mitigated with the pain, but there's still joy. And 28:03 I know that God has even more joy for me in the future. 28:06 Eventually there'll be more. JB: Pastor Mike Tucker, this has 28:08 been a big deal. Thanks for joining me today. 28:11 MT: My pleasure. JB: Truly appreciate it. Thanks. 28:12 Let's pray together. MT: Sure. JB: Let's pray. 28:15 Our Father in heaven, we're going to be honest with you 28:16 and tell you, we wish there was no such thing 28:19 as grief. We don't like loss. Human beings weren't created to 28:23 grieve. When you created this earth, death wasn't on your 28:27 agenda. [piano in background] JB: But an enemy hath done this. 28:31 We thank you today that the Bible encourages us, "Greater is 28:35 he that is in you than he that is in the world." And so we will 28:40 take our strength in you and trust that, when life's 28:43 difficult circumstances come, you'll get us through; that 28:47 weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning. 28:51 Thank you, Lord, for allowing Mike to be here today and share 28:54 his experience. Continue to bless him and use him in a 28:57 powerful way to offer hope, and hope in Christ to many. And 29:02 bless us. Friend, if you're going through a difficult 29:04 experience now, would you yield your heart to Jesus? Just pray, 29:08 "Lord, take my heart and make it yours." Let that be your prayer. 29:12 Lord Jesus, take my hand. Give me your peace. Give me faith and 29:18 trust in you always. Lord, we thank you for answering our 29:21 prayer and keeping us close to you. In Jesus' name, Amen. 29:28 Thanks for joining me today. I'm looking to seeing you again next 29:31 time. Until then, remember, "It is written, 'Man shall not live 29:35 by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the 29:40 mouth of God.'" 29:41 [Music] 29:51 [Music] |
Revised 2018-07-11