Participants:
Series Code: IIW
Program Code: IIW016122S
|
00:01 [theme music]
00:22 [drum and trumpet music] 00:31 This is It Is Written. I'm John Bradshaw. 00:33 Thanks for joining me. Right about now, Americans are 00:37 preparing to celebrate a national holiday. 00:40 For many people, it's the best time of the year. 00:43 Thanksgiving: family, sometimes travel, always food. 00:49 And a time for us to reflect on just how good God has 00:52 been to us. It's not unusual for people 00:55 around the table at Thanksgiving dinner to recite what they are 00:59 thankful for from the previous year. 01:03 Well, this year--every year, truthfully--I'll be thankful 01:06 for, among other things, the Bible: God's book, 01:09 God's revelation to us of Himself and His love 01:12 for a sinful world. The Bible contains the story 01:16 of the plan of salvation: how Jesus came from Heaven 01:18 to Earth, to die so that we might live. 01:22 That's something to be thankful for. 01:24 When you come to the Bible, you don't have to read too 01:27 far to find great men and women of faith. 01:30 You read about Abraham, or of Samson, 01:33 somebody like Daniel, people who, driven by 01:36 the Spirit of God, did great things for 01:38 the honor of God. Outside the Bible, we find great 01:42 men and women of faith also, and today we're going to 01:47 discuss somebody who had great faith in God: 01:49 such great faith that his otherwise unremarkable life 01:54 became remarkable for the glory of God; 01:57 so much so, that this individual was one of 02:00 the very few to receive a Congressional Medal 02:02 of Honor. His name was Desmond Doss, 02:06 and joining me today to discuss Desmond Doss 02:08 is Pastor Les Spear, who for several years 02:11 was Desmond Doss's church pastor. 02:14 Les, thanks for joining me today on It Is Written. 02:16 It's a pleasure to have you here. 02:18 LS: It's my pleasure to be here. JB: Now, you've been in ministry 02:20 pretty much all your adult life. How long, now? 02:23 LS: Forty-six years. JB: And you were the pastor of a 02:25 church Desmond attended for how many of those years? 02:28 LS: About three and a half. JB: But your association with 02:30 Desmond predates those and postdates those years. 02:34 LS: Correct. JB: So, you knew him for about 02:36 how many years? LS: About 22, 23 years. 02:39 JB: And in those years, you can get to know a 02:41 person pretty well. LS: Yeah. 02:43 We became personal friends. Sometimes your church members, 02:46 you get to know very well. And because of Desmond's 02:51 reputation, because of his wonderful, quiet, 02:55 humble manner, he's the kind of man that everyone 02:58 wishes they had as a father or grandfather. 03:01 And you could sit beside him and ask him questions. 03:05 He wasn't intimidated; he wasn't full of himself; 03:09 he was just as open and transparent as sunlight. 03:13 JB: Now, not that many people are awarded the Congressional 03:16 Medal of Honor. Maybe you can explain what it 03:20 was that Desmond did that saw him receive the Congressional 03:25 Medal of Honor from President Harry Truman. 03:28 LS: First of all, you have to understand that the 03:31 background of his boot camp, Desmond was despised because 03:35 he was a conscientious objector. 03:38 He didn't like that term. He said, "I'm a conscientious 03:41 cooperator." JB: But nevertheless, during his 03:44 time in the military where he served as a combat medic, 03:47 he refused to carry a gun. LS: Yes. 03:50 JB: Leading many of those he served with to hate him. 03:53 LS: Yes. So when it came to warfare, 03:56 however, the ugly duckling turned out to be a beautiful 04:00 person who would go after them--the wounded soldiers-- 04:05 no matter where they were. If they were in the line of 04:07 fire, he would go after them, risking his own life many, 04:10 many, many times, grab them by the collar and 04:13 drag them out. JB: Here's how I understand it: 04:15 Desmond said that during that white-hot, intense battle on the 04:21 Maeda Escarpment in Okinawa, Japan, he brought to safety, 04:26 under the most difficult circumstances imaginable, 04:29 fifty wounded men who otherwise would have 04:32 lost their lives. The military says it was 100, 04:36 at least, soldiers he served with, so they split the 04:38 difference. LS: Yes. 04:40 JB: And said Desmond Doss saved 75 men while under fire, 04:44 literally in the crosshairs of Japanese marksmen. 04:49 LS: Now, let me tell you something I asked Desmond 04:51 about one day. I said, "Desmond, after you 04:54 saved two or three people and you lowered them down 04:57 with a rope about 40 feet to where the other men 05:00 could get them and take them to aid station," 05:02 I said, "did you continue to crawl 05:04 on the ground?" He said, "No." 05:06 He said, "After a while, I understood that God was 05:09 protecting me, so I stood up and carried men on my 05:12 back. I drug them; I didn't try to 05:15 stay on the ground anymore." And he, and the other men, 05:18 who were down there, said that the bullets were 05:21 like bees flying around him, but they didn't touch him. 05:25 So I said, "Desmond, is this story about you?" 05:28 He said, "No. This story is about my God that I serve." 05:32 JB: Describe Desmond Doss as a person--you've done that a 05:35 little bit--something about his background and how he grew up 05:37 as a man of faith. This was a committed Christian. 05:40 LS: He grew up a very poor home. His mother and father worked, 05:45 both of them, part-time, without regular jobs, 05:49 during the Depression. His father was a very bad 05:52 alcoholic, prone to beating the children. 05:55 The mother was a Seventh-day Adventist Christian, 05:58 and the Bible and church was very important. 06:01 Mr. Doss, Thomas Doss, one day at an auction, 06:05 he bought a little picture of the Lord's Prayer and 06:09 of the Ten Commandments for 75 cents, and they 06:13 hung that behind a chair. And interestingly, Desmond liked 06:18 to stand in that chair and watch and look at and understand the 06:23 Ten Commandments with the pictures that were there. 06:26 And his mother said one day, "Desmond, you're going to wear 06:30 that chair out looking at that picture." 06:33 She really didn't mind. But that picture had 06:36 a tremendous influence on not killing anyone: 06:41 the picture of Cain killing Abel, and of the 06:44 seventh-day Sabbath, and those were two big, 06:47 monumental foundations that shaped his 06:50 character. JB: He chose to be a 06:53 conscientious cooperator. As you said, he didn't like the 06:56 term conscientious objector. LS: Yes. 06:59 JB: But he, he volunteered for the military. 07:02 LS: Absolutely. JB: Now, when you volunteer for 07:05 the military, you don't get to dictate the terms under which 07:09 you will serve. LS: That's true today, but it 07:13 was quite a little bit different back then, during World War II. 07:17 Today, if a person volunteers, they go in as a combatant. 07:24 They must carry arms, unless it's convenient for them to 07:28 not to do so. Then, there was a law that 07:31 allowed them to not carry a gun, which he refused to do, 07:36 and still be on the battlefield, still be saving life instead 07:43 of taking it. He didn't, he said, 07:45 "I'm willing to salute my flag. I'm willing to go in uniform. 07:48 I believe in my country. I'm very patriotic." 07:51 And he was one of the most patriotic people I've ever 07:53 seen or met. But he would not kill; 07:58 he would not take life. JB: A man who would not take 08:00 life, who would not carry a weapon, but was awarded the 08:04 Congressional Medal of Honor: a remarkable man, a servant 08:08 of his country, and a man of faith. 08:10 More of the Desmond Doss story in just a moment. 08:14 [Music] When you read the Bible, 08:20 you read about many great heroes of the Bible: 08:23 people otherwise ordinary who, moved by the Spirit 08:26 of God, did great things for the glory of God. 08:30 Outside of the Bible, we meet heroes as well, 08:33 and Desmond Doss, though he would never 08:35 refer to himself as such, was undoubtedly a 08:39 modern-day hero. A Congressional Medal of Honor 08:42 recipient who went into battle with nothing more than a medical 08:46 kit, a prayer on his lips, and a very small Bible 08:50 just like this one. This was Desmond Doss's 08:54 strength. I would like to share with you a 08:57 little book called, "The Faith of Desmond Doss," 09:01 which will share with you what it was that made Desmond Doss 09:04 a great man of faith, and how you, too, can have that 09:08 kind of faith in God. To receive "The Faith of Desmond 09:12 Doss," please call, right now, 1 (800) 253-3000. 09:17 That's 1 (800) 253-3000. If, when you call, the line is 09:22 busy, please do call again. You can call 24 hours a day. 09:27 If you'd like to write, please write to: 09:29 It Is Written, P.O. Box 6, Chattanooga, Tennessee, 09:32 37401, and we will send you a free copy, 09:36 if your address is within North America. 09:39 Or go to our website for a free download, www.ItIsWritten.com. 09:47 Thanks for joining me today on It Is Written. 09:48 I'm John Bradshaw. My guest today is 09:51 Pastor Les Spear, who for several years was 09:53 the pastor of Congressional Medal of Honor recipient 09:56 Desmond Doss, and for many years was his close and 10:00 trusted friend. Desmond Doss is the central 10:03 figure in the movie "Hacksaw Ridge," 10:06 which focuses on one of the most intense military 10:08 engagements in this country's history. 10:12 Les, since the end of the Civil War, less than 2,000 10:16 individuals have received the Medal of Honor. 10:19 In order to receive that award, you have had to have done 10:24 something outstanding. And typically, in order to do 10:27 something outstanding, you had to be someone outstanding. 10:31 Now, what sort of person was Desmond Doss, the man? 10:34 LS: Some people will be acquainted with the Myers- 10:37 Briggs Personality Profile. Desmond was an INFJ, and if you 10:45 Google that, it comes out that it's Mr. Integrity. 10:51 He would not violate his conscience. 10:53 I don't know of a single incident where he violated 10:56 his conscience in his whole lifetime. 10:58 He was so rigid to do what he felt was right, regardless 11:03 of the consequences. JB: Which led him, 11:05 while in the military, to make the decision 11:07 that he wouldn't carry a gun. 11:09 He would be a conscientious cooperator. 11:11 You mentioned before that he was despised for that, at least 11:14 for a while. That turned around. 11:16 What kind of pressure did he experience in the military 11:19 for his decision? LS: He was beat up. 11:22 He would, was not allowed to have passes home, even to 11:26 get married, earlier. The men would make fun of him. 11:30 They would ridicule him. They despised him, because he 11:34 wouldn't be like them and carry a gun and kill the enemy. 11:38 JB: As a spiritual man, you observed him up close. 11:40 What was his spiritual experience like? 11:43 LS: He was a person who was not full of himself. 11:45 He was very humble, very kind, very patient. 11:50 He was willing to listen. Another soldier met him, 11:55 and the soldier said, "Desmond treated me like 11:59 I was the recipient of the Medal of Honor." 12:04 And he said, "When Desmond goes to the Medal of Honor convention 12:08 every other year, the other recipients line up to see him." 12:13 Now, isn't that amazing? So it's not a story necessarily 12:16 about Desmond. It's a story about the 12:19 miracle-working power of Desmond's God. 12:23 JB: Up on Hacksaw Ridge, or more appropriately referred to, 12:26 up on the Maeda Escarpment at Okinawa, he was literally 12:30 in the crosshairs of Japanese weapons and 12:34 guns. Bullets were flying past him, 12:36 yet he distinguished himself with immense bravery and 12:41 absolute heroism, leading him to receive the 12:44 Congressional Medal of Honor. 12:46 Now, you have that medal here today. 12:47 Might we see that? LS: Yes. 12:49 This is the Congressional Medal of Honor. 12:51 There are very few people who wear this, believe me. 12:54 I think there's only about 150 who are still alive at this 12:58 time. JB: In addition to the 13:00 Congressional Medal of Honor, he was awarded with 13:02 other awards. What were they? 13:04 LS: He received two Bronze Stars, the Oak Leaf Cluster 13:07 for valor. He received three Purple Hearts, 13:12 and was wounded most severely the last time, after the 13:16 Maeda Escarpment. The Japanese had built 13:19 tunnels in this mountain, and they had pillboxes, 13:24 they had machine gun nests set up, designed 13:26 not to be on the offensive but on the defensive. 13:31 So, my history books say that between 2,200 and 2,300 13:36 American lives were trying to take this mountain 13:40 range. It wasn't so big--about 400 feet 13:43 high--but they had designed it so that when they got there, 13:47 many soldiers would die. At one place, there was a 13:51 little creek. Human blood was almost 13:54 knee deep. So, here you have Desmond going 13:58 up there, on the second famous day, and as he goes up there, 14:04 the Japanese are shooting at him, and he is going and 14:10 rescuing men. But instead of crawling on the 14:14 ground, after realizing that God is protecting him, 14:18 he doesn't worry about the bullets at all. 14:20 And he just goes and gets people and puts them on his back. 14:23 He sometimes will help them walk, if they are capable 14:26 of walking at all, carries them to the side and 14:29 lowers them over, 40 feet down where the other men 14:32 can get them and take them to military aid. 14:34 Just trusting in the Lord. And I asked him, 14:37 "What were you thinking?" He said, "I was praying, 14:40 'God help me get one more before I die.' 14:43 'Help me get one more.' 'Help me get one more.'" 14:46 JB: Big, strong man, was he? LS: No. 14:49 He was probably 130 pounds, at this time. 14:52 JB: A hundred and thirty pounds, yet he singlehandedly rescued 14:56 and then lowered to safety at least 75 men, while bullets 15:01 were flying past. LS: One of the other men in the 15:05 unit said that the bullets up there were like a bunch of 15:08 bees flying around him. JB: What sort of long-term 15:12 effects did Desmond Doss suffer after having served in the 15:15 military? LS: Something that we have in 15:18 our vocabulary today is Post-traumatic Stress Syndrome. 15:22 Desmond suffered that for probably 10 or 12 years. 15:27 He called it "the demons." He would think of people that 15:31 were, he considered them his men, and he would see them die. 15:35 He would try to save them, and they would die or be blown up. 15:40 JB: This was going on in his mind? 15:42 LS: Yes. And so, for years this, all this 15:45 trauma is going on in his mind. Today, we deal with 15:48 psychologists and psychiatrists and so forth, to help our 15:52 soldiers in these situations. Desmond had none of that. 15:55 Plus, after he got well from the injuries of his body and his 16:00 left leg that was blown up with a hand grenade, he has TB 16:06 for five and a half years, and he couldn't even be 16:10 with his wife but for a few minutes a day. 16:13 And he couldn't be with his son for fear that his son would get 16:16 TB. This was a terrible 16:19 psychological imprisonment, almost, during his life for 16:25 years, probably 10 to 12 years he suffered these emotional 16:30 problems. JB: And then there was his 16:32 hearing. LS: Yes. 16:34 When they treated him for his problems physically-- 16:39 antibiotics were new, in World War II-- 16:42 the doctors didn't know how much to give. 16:45 And so they gave him way too much, and he would have ringing 16:49 in his ears for years. And finally, sometime after 16:53 World War II, he became totally deaf for 12 years, until they 16:59 have a new miracle surgery called 'cochlear implant.' 17:03 After he got the cochlear implant, it was possible 17:06 to communicate with him. He said, "But everybody talks 17:09 like Donald Duck." Ha ha ha. 17:11 I found that if I lowered my voice, I could speak slowly, 17:16 and if I faced him, he could read my lips and we could 17:19 carry on a good conversation. 17:21 JB: Did you ever know him to consider or to suggest that the 17:24 price he paid for serving his country was too high? 17:28 LS: Never. He said, "I received the 17:31 Congressional in honor of the men who died, because they 17:35 gave a much greater sacrifice than mine." 17:38 JB: Quite a remarkable man, and now the subject of a 17:42 major motion picture entitled "Hacksaw Ridge." 17:44 There's already been documentaries, books, 17:47 and many other productions in honor or in respect of 17:53 a man who gave so much for the country that he loved, 17:57 motivated always by honor for God. 18:02 We'll be back with more in just a moment. 18:06 [Music] "Every Word" is a one-minute, 18:07 Bible-based daily devotional presented by 18:10 Pastor John Bradshaw, and designed especially for 18:12 busy people like you. Look for "Every Word" on 18:15 selected networks or watch it online every day on our 18:18 website, ItIsWritten.com. 18:23 [upbeat piano music] Paul and Silas were doing 18:31 God's business in Philippi. They were hounded for days 18:34 by a demon-possessed woman, so they do the right thing, 18:37 the God thing, and they cast the demon out of her. 18:40 But as a result, they ended up in prison, their backs having 18:43 been brutally opened up by a Roman whip and their feet put 18:45 fast in stocks. And yet the testimony 18:48 of God's Word is that in their darkest hour, 18:51 their faith in God was strong. 18:53 Acts 16:25 says, "And at midnight, Paul and Silas 18:57 prayed and sang praises unto God, and the prisoners 19:00 heard them." Instead of complaining that 19:03 God had abandoned them, they prayed and sang. 19:05 The other prisoners were touched, God worked miracles, 19:08 and the jailkeeper was saved. When you're in a tough 19:11 situation, instead of complaining, pray 19:13 and praise God. That's when miracles happen. 19:17 I'm John Bradshaw for It Is Written. 19:19 Let's live today by every word. 19:23 Thanks for joining me today on It Is Written. 19:25 Today, we're discussing Desmond Doss, 19:28 Congressional Medal of Honor recipient, whose experience 19:31 is portrayed in the movie "Hacksaw Ridge." 19:35 Pastor Les Spear, his pastor for several years, 19:37 his friend for many years, we spoke a few moments ago 19:40 about how Desmond Doss was hated, absolutely despised, 19:44 because he chose to be a noncombatant. 19:48 He said he was a conscientious cooperator, 19:50 but, in spite of that decision, later on was 19:53 awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. 19:55 So, something happened to turn around in the minds of many 19:58 people this concept of a man who was perhaps a coward, 20:02 couldn't be relied on, to, in the minds of his own 20:05 peers, he really became a hero, in their minds. 20:09 Explain that transition that took place. 20:12 LS: In basic training, one of the men said, 20:14 "In battle, I will kill you." 20:16 When it came to the battle time, later, that particular man who 20:20 had threatened him in basic training was running the other 20:24 way, away from the enemy, when Desmond was going 20:28 into battle to save his men. 20:30 And Desmond was not afraid to risk his life again and 20:34 again and again, where, if anyone was wounded 20:37 and they cried for a medic, he was on his way, 20:41 in spite of the harm and the foolishness. 20:44 One time, the commander said, "Desmond, wait a little while." 20:48 And Desmond said, "He may not be alive in a little while," 20:52 and he crawled on out to get that man and drag him 20:55 back. JB: Earlier, there was a 20:57 complete lack of respect for Desmond and his faith. 21:01 Later on, there was an immense amount of respect for his 21:06 faith in God. Describe that for me. 21:08 LS: When they tried to get up the Maeda Escarpment-- 21:12 Hacksaw Ridge, as it's called by the men-- 21:15 they were, climbed that ladder seven times, and 21:19 they were kicked off seven times. 21:22 One of the times, Desmond said to the commander, 21:26 "Sir, shouldn't we have prayer before we go up?" 21:29 His intent was that every man should pray, 21:32 "Forgive me of my sins," and make peace with God. 21:35 So the commander called the men together and says, 21:38 "Desmond wants to pray for us." Well, that wasn't Desmond's 21:41 thought, but that's what he did, and he prayed 21:43 a very simple prayer. "Lord, give our commander 21:47 good instructions. Help us to follow safety 21:50 procedures, that we will all be able to return 21:52 safely and alive." That day, everyone in their unit 21:59 came back alive. Not a single one. 22:02 JB: A very rare occurrence. LS: When the other group that 22:06 was beside them were just mowed down. 22:08 They were on a neighboring part of the escarpment. 22:11 They were slaughtered, almost. JB: A remarkable story. 22:14 LS: Absolutely. JB: What sort of legacy do you 22:16 think he left behind? LS: I happen to be the, 22:19 not only a personal friend of his but also his 22:21 trust officer. Desmond understood the principal 22:24 from Scripture that we are just stewards. 22:27 We're not owners of anything. And so Desmond wanted everything 22:31 that he had, except for a few personal items, to build up 22:35 God's kingdom. And so he left not only his 22:38 money, but also his time, his commitment. 22:42 He was eager to do everything he could to build up the work of 22:47 Jesus Christ. JB: I understand he invested 22:49 with his own time and energy in young people. 22:53 LS: Absolutely. JB: Tell me a little bit about 22:55 his work with young people. LS: Well, he loved to go to 22:57 high school, to private schools, to churches, synagogues, 23:02 wherever he could find people, but especially he wanted 23:06 to spend time with young people. 23:07 And he would tell them that if they would trust in God, God 23:11 would direct their paths. And Desmond said, 23:14 "That's true with me, and it'll be true with you, 23:17 if you commit your life to Jesus Christ." 23:19 JB: How did young people respond to this fellow? 23:21 Let's keep in mind, he was a frail, older, deaf man. 23:24 LS: Yes. JB: And, and he could interact 23:26 with high school kids? LS: Oh, it was amazing. 23:29 One time, there was a group of perhaps 225 people, and almost 23:34 all of them were young people. They sat there, almost 23:37 mesmerized. They were just awestruck. 23:42 I was amazed. These were 10-, 12-, 13-, 23:45 14-year-olds, and they were just (ah), with their mouths hanging 23:49 open, listening to the story of God's protection and providence 23:55 for him. JB: It really is a 23:57 remarkable story. It's a story of, of protection, 24:01 as you say, providence, and faith and trust in God. 24:06 Now, Desmond Doss today rests in a cemetery not very far from 24:10 where we are sitting right now, and he's a man who was 24:13 a significant part of your life. 24:15 Just briefly, what kind of impact did Desmond Doss, 24:19 the man, have on you? LS: In any church, there are 24:23 stresses, sometimes squabblings, sometimes jealousies, and 24:30 Desmond was a person who frequently had his picture 24:33 in the newspaper, in the parades around town, 24:37 and there were some problems in the church 24:42 and in the social structure of the community. 24:45 And Desmond struggled with that, but he was not going to let that 24:50 influence him not to go to church, not to be faithful, 24:54 not--he was always determined, "No matter what others do, I 24:59 will be faithful to God." JB: And it's that faith that's 25:02 so beautifully portrayed in the film "Hacksaw Ridge," 25:06 in the documentary "The Conscientious Objector," 25:08 in books and so much that's been written and produced 25:12 about this man. Pastor Les Spear, thanks for 25:15 joining me today. LS: It's been my pleasure. 25:17 Thank you. JB: Well, let's pray together 25:18 before we go. Let's pray. 25:20 [Music] Our Father in heaven, we are thankful for the way 25:22 You've placed Your hand on lives, which then reveal to 25:27 so many Your goodness, Your glory, 25:30 Your providence and Your power. 25:32 As we consider the life and the legacy of Desmond Doss, 25:36 we are mindful that Your impact on a life can make 25:40 any life profound, any life influential, 25:45 any life tell for your glory. As we come to You with our 25:48 struggles and weaknesses, I pray that Your touch, 25:51 Your blessing would see Your will done, and though 25:55 the great majority of us will never be known like 25:59 Desmond Doss was known, I pray that in our sphere, 26:01 our lives would give evidence that we have been touched and 26:04 blessed by the God of Heaven. 26:07 Thank You, that You are the God of great things. 26:09 In Jesus' name, we pray. Amen. 26:12 [Music] 26:28 JB: I would like to share with you a little book called 26:30 "The Faith of Desmond Doss," which will share with you 26:34 what it was that made Desmond Doss a great man 26:37 of faith, and how you too, can have that kind of faith 26:42 in God. To receive "The Faith of Desmond 26:45 Doss," please call, right now, 1 (800) 253-3000. 26:50 If, when you call, the line is busy, please do call again. 26:54 You can call 24 hours a day. If you'd like to write, 26:58 please write to: It Is Written, P.O. Box 6, 27:01 Chattanooga, Tennessee, 37401, and we will send you a free copy 27:06 if your address is within North America. 27:09 Or go to our website for a free download, 27:11 www.ItIsWritten.com. And please remember that 27:16 It Is Written is a faith-based ministry. 27:19 We are enabled to share the gospel of Jesus Christ globally 27:23 because of the support of people just like you. 27:25 To support It Is Written, please do call (800) 253-3000, 27:30 or you can write to the address on your screen, or visit us at 27:34 ItIsWritten.com. Again, to receive 27:38 "The Faith of Desmond Doss," 1 (800) 253-3000. 27:46 Thank you so much for joining me today. 27:48 I look forward to seeing you again next time. 27:50 Until then remember, it is written: 27:53 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word 27:57 that proceeds from the mouth of God. 28:01 [Music] |
Revised 2022-11-03