It Is Written

The Collapse of Creation

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: John Bradshaw

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Series Code: IIW

Program Code: IIW001385A


00:00 ♪[Dramatic Music Score]♪
00:06 It has stood the test of time, God's book, the Bible.
00:16 Still relevant in today's complex world.
00:21 It Is Written, sharing hope around the globe.
00:36 Thanks for joining me today. This is It Is Written.
00:38 I'm John Bradshaw. We look around society and we
00:41 see something as clear as day. The environment seems to be
00:47 falling apart. The news is full
00:50 of such reports. Scientists are making claims
00:53 whether it's about global warming or a person's carbon
00:56 footprint or the Ozone layer or air pollution or just
01:00 regular old pollution. It certainly seems that today's
01:04 world is not the same as yesterday's world.
01:08 It seems that we are sinking. Today, on It Is Written,
01:10 we are going to look at that through the lens of Scripture.
01:13 Does the Bible support this view?
01:16 Is there anything we can do about it?
01:18 And what does the decay of our environment suggest about the
01:22 fulfillment of Bible prophecy. My guest today is
01:26 Scott Christiansen, a Christian minister and author,
01:29 a seminar presenter and someone who has worked in various
01:32 locations around the world in positions that have enabled him
01:36 to see environmental change up close.
01:39 Scott Christiansen, thanks for joining me.
01:41 Welcome to It Is Written. SC My please.
01:43 Thank you. JB What does the Bible have to
01:44 say about the decay of the environment? Anything?
01:47 Nothing? Something? Much? What?
01:49 SC Well, the Bible says that there will be
01:51 tremendous decay in society as a result of sin.
01:55 Let's go to Isaiah 51:6 where the Bible says the earth will
01:59 wax old as a garment and basically be falling apart and
02:04 let's go to Romans 8:22 where the Bible says that
02:09 all of creation groans. I look at this verse and it is
02:12 clear that it is because of sin. Why else would a world that was
02:16 created in perfection be groaning.
02:17 JB In fact, Paul wrote that creation wants to escape
02:20 the bondage that it is now experiencing.
02:22 SC Absolutely. JB Let me up the ante a little
02:25 bit because there is a verse that comes to my mind in the
02:27 Book of Revelation, Chapter 11,
02:30 the nations were angry, your wrath has come and so on.
02:33 The end of that verse, Revelation 11:18 says
02:37 that God will destroy "those who destroy
02:40 the earth." Revelation 11:18.
02:43 Does that mean what it sounds like it means?
02:46 SC That God is an environmentalist
02:48 or that he is angry over the destruction of his planet?
02:49 JB That God cares about the environment and that destroying
02:51 the earth is not good. Is that what it means?
02:53 SC If we look in Job, we are told that the morning
02:56 star sang at the creation of the earth and we know that God was
03:02 excited about his creation. He looked at it and he said it
03:04 was very good. What we have not really
03:07 appreciated previous to this, as Christians,
03:12 is that sin affects man profoundly and it affects the
03:15 earth itself, profoundly. I mean, there is a reason
03:19 God hates sin and there is a reason that it
03:21 needs to be eradicated completely and the earth needs
03:23 to be re-created because sin only subtracts.
03:27 It only takes away. It only decays.
03:30 It only causes death. It adds to nothing.
03:32 Let's discuss some of what we see specifically because the
03:38 Bible says the earth is falling apart and it connected to sin
03:42 something that your average environmentalist is not going to
03:45 connect the dots like that. Let's be specific.
03:49 What do we see in the world today that suggests the
03:52 environment actually is falling apart.
03:55 Well, if we take a look at the systems that God created,
03:58 let's talk about systems instead of just minor specifics
04:01 around the globe and when I talk about systems
04:04 I mean, our atmospheric system, our climate system,
04:06 our oceanic system, our fresh water system and
04:08 our food production system, you know,
04:10 soil was created and the Garden of Eden,
04:12 food production and human society were created as part
04:16 of the creation week. Let's take a look at the system
04:19 that is falling apart the most rapidly,
04:21 our oceanic system. JB Ok
04:22 SC Good studies out, validated studies out,
04:24 published studies out project that fisheries
04:28 on a global basis will be essentially depleted,
04:30 will be collapsed within 25 years and we are on
04:34 a steep downward slope when it comes to fisheries
04:36 and that is a big deal. There is a billion people who
04:38 rely upon those fisheries for almost all of their food.
04:42 JB And billions of others who rely on the fisheries for some
04:45 of their food. SC When you have a growing
04:47 population, beyond seven billion,
04:48 and we are at a razor-thin margin between what we produce
04:52 and consume every year and you take the food for a billion
04:55 people out of that equation, that is a very big deal.
04:58 Our soils are being systematically degraded.
05:00 We have very poor practices across the globe.
05:02 More than 20 million acres a year consistently are taken out
05:07 of food production because they are totally degraded.
05:09 JB Wait a minute. How much is 20 million acres?
05:12 SC Well I come from the state of Maine and that would not quite
05:15 be the entire state of Maine but it would be a lot of the State
05:17 of Maine. That is a lot of area.
05:19 JB So it is almost the size of Maine.
05:20 SC Yeah, almost the size of Maine.
05:22 We have to remember that some of that is slash and burn in the
05:25 tropics but there is also farmland that has been farmed
05:28 for a very long time that has just become so degraded,
05:31 it comes out of production. JB But essentially that much
05:34 land is taken out every year because it is worthless now.
05:37 SC It is, yes. JB In terms of food production.
05:39 SC That's correct. JB Well that's dramatic. Okay,
05:40 keep talking to me about food production issues.
05:43 I can see that this is directly related to population issues.
05:48 More people to feed now. SC There is an organization out
05:51 of Boston in the US called NECSI and they are easy to find
05:56 and their published studies are easy to find.
05:58 They have taken a look at the 20 year or beyond
06:02 price chart that is published by the United Nations that shows
06:07 significant price spikes in food.
06:09 We had a long period of price stability followed by
06:13 significant price spikes over the last five or six years.
06:16 And then they issued a graph showing that at the peak of
06:21 those price spikes were rebellions and uprisings and
06:25 conflicts within nations and between nations and basically
06:29 what they are saying is "look, there is a perfect correlation
06:32 between price spikes and the increasing instability
06:36 in society. So if you go back and you say
06:39 okay, we are really on the razor's
06:41 edge on a global basis on food and our ability
06:45 to produce is declining and our oceans are crashing,
06:48 we get from there directly into societal instability and we get
06:52 there directly into conflict and you can reference from there
06:56 Matthew 24, wars and rumors of war.
06:58 We see the iron links between the environment and its
07:03 accelerating degradation and the fulfillment of prophecy.
07:08 JB I am very interested in the idea about food production and
07:11 the environmental issues that are squeezing food production
07:15 and therefore, squeezing populations.
07:17 Let's talk more about that in just a moment.
07:19 This is It Is Written. Don't go away,
07:21 we'll be right back.
07:23 ♪(Calming Reflective Music)♪ Every Word is a one-minute
07:25 Bible-based daily devotional presented by Pastor John
07:29 Bradshaw and designed especially for busy people like you.
07:32 Look for Every Word on selected networks or watch it on-line
07:35 everyday on our website, itiswritten.com.
07:40 ♪ [Rythmic Melody] ♪
07:47 Thanks for joining me. Not long ago I found myself in
07:50 the midst of a storm - a reall big one.
07:53 Trees were uprooted and roads were closed and there was a lot
07:55 of damage - but the storm passed as storms do.
07:59 The Bible talks about the mother of all storms in Daniel 12:1 -
08:02 and encourages us that there's hope even in the midst
08:05 of great trial. "there shall be a time of
08:07 trouble, such as never was since there was a nation,
08:10 even to that time. And at that time your people
08:12 shall be delivered, every one who is found
08:15 written in the book." A time of trouble
08:17 such a never was - but God's people
08:20 will be delivered. If it looks to you like the
08:22 world is getting worse, the truth is
08:24 you ain't seen nothing yet. But the greatest truth
08:27 is that God's people are going to be delivered.
08:30 That's good news I'm John Bradshaw
08:33 for It Is Written. Let's live today by Every Word.
08:40 This is It Is Written Thanks for joining me today.
08:43 We are talking about the environment and its relationship
08:46 to the Word of God in particular to Bible prophecy and my guest
08:50 today is Scott Christiansen. Scott, let's talk about where
08:54 we were just a moment ago, food production.
08:57 Now, you know, where I live,
08:59 I can eat what I want, when I want,
09:02 it doesn't seem like there are many food production issues
09:07 to me. Let's discuss this on a global
09:10 basis and talk about how the collapsing environ is
09:15 actually affecting food production.
09:17 First of all, let's to go to ...
09:18 whether or not you notice it ... many of the people watching this
09:21 program are going to be from North America or Western Europe.
09:24 These are the areas on the globe where there is an abundance of
09:27 resources, not necessarily an abundance of
09:29 good but an abundance of resources they can afford food.
09:32 Well, let's take as an example Corn Flakes.
09:35 Let's say you are having Corn Flakes for breakfast and let's
09:37 say the price of corn doubles, as it did last year.
09:40 Let's say that your Corn Flakes are not going to double in price
09:43 because of packaging, because of marketing,
09:45 because of all the things that go into those Corn Flakes,
09:47 the actual corn in your Corn Flakes is probably only
09:50 20 cents or so. So when the part
09:53 of your Corn Flakes, you pay $4 for that box and
09:55 when the price of corn doubles and it goes up to $4.20
09:58 you don't even notice. Or if you do notice,
10:00 maybe you notice just a little tiny bit,
10:02 but remember ... there's 3.5 billion people on
10:06 the face of the earth that are making $2.50 a day or less and
10:10 they are s pending from 50 to 90% of their income
10:13 on food alone and so when they are
10:16 buying literally a handful of corn or a handful of wheat or a
10:19 handful of rice and prices significantly increase,
10:22 where is that money going to come from so that they can keep
10:24 getting the minimum amount of food that they need.
10:27 These price spikes profoundly affect billions of people on the
10:31 face of the earth and we don't even notice in North America.
10:35 JB Okay, what are some other systems.
10:37 You talk about God-created systems.
10:39 These systems are being affected by sin causing decay
10:44 environmentally. What is another one?
10:46 SC Well, we talked about oceanic systems.
10:48 Our fresh water system. Around the world aquifers are
10:50 being pumped out and this is a huge deal because they are being
10:53 pumped out to keep irrigating crops.
10:57 These aquifers fill up very, very slowly.
10:59 They fill up, if you will,
11:00 on geological time. So when these aquifers are
11:03 pumped out either to give a major city water or to irrigate
11:06 crops. There is no replacing them.
11:09 This is happening all over the world.
11:11 We are not living in any or that is nearly sustainable.
11:13 And let me take as an example the Ogalala Aquifer underlying
11:16 eight states in Central and Midwest US and this underlies a
11:22 significant area of grain production and in fact,
11:26 it provides the water for everything above it.
11:28 The industry, cities and agriculture.
11:31 It is shrinking at the edges and it is expected to be completely
11:34 depleted as a resource within 25 years.
11:37 JB What happens if this thing disappears?
11:38 SC Well we just can't produce the grain and we can't have the
11:41 cities that are there, and the industries there.
11:43 There is nothing to replace it as a resource.
11:45 JB But can't we just build a desalination plant and pump
11:48 water in? SC Well if there is an endless
11:49 supply of energy, yes.
11:52 And that is a very expensive thing that is being proposed.
11:54 Especially if we do it with oil. But if there is an endless
11:56 supply of energy, then theoretically
11:58 we could do many things. You're talking a river flowing
12:01 in reverse to make this thing go and maybe if this was
12:05 our only problem in the globe, we could fix this one thing.
12:08 People say "what's going on?" and there is no real answer to
12:12 that until you start talking about the effect of sin.
12:15 From a Christian perspective, sin is the problem.
12:18 Christ is the solution. JB I think what we are going to
12:22 do in just a moment is talk about the big picture.
12:25 The environment's collapsing. We see markers everywhere,
12:29 signs everywhere telling us that this is a planet in distress,
12:33 a planet in decay. Is there a way out?
12:35 What does it mean? What is the ultimate solution?
12:38 Let's cover that next. SC Very good
12:40 JB We'll be back with more in just a moment.
12:42 I'm John Bradshaw. This is It Is Written.
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13:16 JB Our discussion today is centering on the relationship
13:18 between the decay we see in the environment around us and
13:23 the signs we read about in the Bible,
13:25 the spiritual implications of an environment that seems to be
13:29 collapsing. Scott, let's talk a little bit
13:32 more about some specifics, where we see, maybe some
13:35 alarm bells ringing in the environment.
13:39 A moment ago we talked about the global food supply and we
13:43 discussed a couple of things that would concern anybody.
13:45 Looking at it biblically, the Bible does say that the
13:48 earth is going to deteriorate, wax old like a garment,
13:52 in fact, it would be destroyed according
13:54 to what we read in Scripture. What are some other areas where
13:57 we see signs that really ought to alarm people and point them
14:01 to what the Bible has said about the environment.
14:04 SC It's an interesting question, really,
14:06 because we only live so long. For us to go back and say well
14:11 here's the amount of damage over the last 400 years and here is
14:15 the extent to which it is accelerating at our current age.
14:17 That's a tough thing. There is a book called
14:20 The End of the Line that looks at the oceans
14:23 as they exist in written records 400 years ago and 300
14:27 years ago and these were incredibly productive oceans.
14:31 I mean, these are oceans that just
14:32 filled with life. I mean,
14:34 you could just harvest and harvest and harvest.
14:36 As late as 1940 and 1950, the oceans were thought to be
14:41 limitless in the amount of resources that they were able
14:43 to give. Now, scientists are calling this
14:47 the Miocene era, the age of slime,
14:50 when most life forms in the ocean are either declining or
14:54 dying and our oceans are transitioning to an environment
14:57 where they are really hospitable for algae,
15:01 fungus and bacteria. JB Are we really seeing an
15:04 increase in recent years or are we just better at observing?
15:08 SC No. We are seeing an absolute decrease,
15:11 if you will, in the amount of resource.
15:13 JB An increase and a decrease. SC Yes.
15:16 If things happen slowly enough and they happened over a
15:20 multitude of lifetimes that prior to say, 1960,
15:24 we weren't really noticing degradation in the environment
15:28 and in addition to that the population burden on the planet
15:30 was half of what it is now. Now we have got more people,
15:33 we've got more pressure and we are seeing a greater and greater
15:36 acceleration in the decay of the actual planet itself and we are
15:39 beginning to see impacts on society and we are sitting up
15:42 and taking notice. It is a big deal.
15:45 JB What is the end game? What is the way out?
15:47 Can it be fixed? SC No.
15:48 My response to this is what is your proposal for reversing the
15:52 effect of sin? Well, let's put it like this.
15:55 What is going on in the world is very serious,
15:57 very serious and for Christians who study their Bible and who
16:01 look at the signs as Christ laid them out in Matthew 24
16:05 and who connect the dots, is our sense of urgency
16:09 commensurate with what we see around us?
16:11 Are we rising to the crisis that is at hand and to the end of
16:15 time? These are very big questions.
16:19 JB Should I be worried about whether or not
16:20 I am going to eat? What can I do or should I
16:22 buy a house with a great big basement
16:24 and stock it with beans and rice and wheat?
16:28 Is that what I should do? SC Well,
16:29 the Bible tells us that we should not worry.
16:33 In fact, it tells us in Matthew 24
16:36 not to worry because these things must happen.
16:39 And the Bible also tells us that our bread will be sure and our
16:42 water will be sure. The question is:
16:46 Are we working for our Master? Are fulfilling
16:49 the great commission? If we are not close to Christ,
16:53 if we don't know him as a friend,
16:55 if we are fully of the world and not of Christ then there is a
16:59 lot to worry about. There's a tremendous amount to
17:01 worry about because the world is ending and we have no hope.
17:04 If Christ is our Savior and we are fully committed to him and
17:09 looking away from the world and toward his coming,
17:11 then we don't need to worry but we do need to work.
17:14 JB So there is a Savior who has pledged to take care of those
17:16 who trust in him. SC Yes JB Even though that the
17:19 world might be falling apart around us.
17:22 There is a hope, is there?
17:23 SC There's great hope. There's tremendous hope.
17:25 JB Prophetically, where do you think this leads us in the
17:29 overall flow of Bible prophecy? SC Well let's go to Scripture.
17:34 I focus on Matthew 24:6-8. There will be wars
17:37 and rumors of wars, etc... In Matthew 24,
17:41 Christ walked his disciples through what would happen
17:45 in history, relatively near term history,
17:48 but also what would happen at the end of time.
17:50 As with all great prophecy, it had a dual application and so
17:54 we know the waymarks. Christ himself articulated the
17:57 waymarks for us that we were to watch for.
18:00 And I look at this and we are early on in the final waymarks.
18:07 But these events happen very rapidly at the close and so we
18:10 are headed towards what some call a time of Jacob's trouble,
18:14 a time of little trouble, a time of great disruption
18:17 on the earth, but before the time of
18:19 tribulation and Christ's coming. The point is,
18:23 because we don't know exactly when those things happen and
18:25 because we don't know exactly the way between here and there,
18:29 [Sounds of Thunder] the point is we are living in
18:31 the End Times. We are living in
18:33 prophetic times. We are living in historic times.
18:38 JB So is it fair to say that if we didn't have some of these
18:40 environmental pressures in the world then we might not see
18:44 last day Bible prophecy being fulfilled with the rapidity
18:47 that it is being fulfilled. Is that what you are saying?
18:50 SC That is what I am saying. If we open our eyes we can see
18:53 things that are pointing to Scripture and that are pointing
18:56 to prophecy and the fulfillment of that prophecy.
18:58 In Mark 13:32-37 we are told repeatedly to watch and to pray.
19:06 We are told to watch. And we are not told to watch and
19:09 then given nothing to watch for. So in this time we are seeing
19:14 the culmination of the effects of sin and we are seeing that
19:18 bleed into or actually be a causative
19:21 of prophetic fulfillment. That's a big deal.
19:24 JB Yes it is. I wonder if we can talk about
19:26 the direct link, how we get from cause to effect.
19:29 There we were in the Garden of Eden,
19:30 everything was very perfect. Eve and then Adam ate the fruit
19:34 that was offered them by the serpent.
19:36 Things went on pretty well, it seems.
19:38 Now God said things are going to change.
19:41 For instance, thorns were going to grow.
19:44 SC That's right. JB So thorns,
19:46 the direct result of sin. SC Thorns are the direct result
19:48 of sin but this is also under debate because God placed three
19:54 successive curses upon the earth.
19:57 There is the curse of Adam. We have to till,
20:00 sweat of your brow, and thorns and thistles.
20:02 So would this curse have come without sin?
20:05 No. Would thorns have come
20:09 without this curse? Well,
20:11 there's room for debate there and I will leave that to the
20:12 theologians. But the two,
20:14 it's definitely one piece. But then there is also the curse
20:17 of Cain where again the productivity of the earth
20:19 is cursed. And then there is the final
20:22 curse if you will, which is not an explicit curse,
20:24 but what else could the flood be called that turned a beautiful
20:28 and perfect world into a world that is not productive the way
20:33 it used to be. JB One thing I am interested in
20:35 is that you say, very appropriately,
20:39 I believe, that it is hard for us to really
20:40 gauge this as we might because we only see
20:43 a very thin slice of the pie owing to the fact that we
20:46 live on this earth such a short time relative to its
20:49 longevity. What do you think we would think
20:53 if we saw the world before the flood?
20:57 SC I think we would be heartbroken that we can't live
20:59 there now. I think we would be so stunned
21:01 by the beauty and the peacefulness and the security.
21:06 You know, the earth that was created to
21:07 delight us daily and astound us daily
21:11 and yet we have to live here. Those who have hope would be
21:16 excited and those without hope might gain hope through Christ.
21:21 But really, if we knew what we were missing
21:23 out on, and we're talking earth,
21:24 not heaven, you know, we are just talking the earth
21:27 and heaven is so much more glorious.
21:28 If we knew what we were missing out on,
21:29 I think we would have a very difficult time just enduring
21:33 our lives here. JB The signs around us tell us
21:36 Jesus is coming back soon. SC Absolutely.
21:39 JB The environment says we are headed in a certain direction.
21:42 It isn't good. Scientists are trying.
21:45 Governments have treaties and protocols and proposals
21:47 and so forth. Nothing is working, is it?
21:50 SC No. The consequences of sin must be
21:53 fully known so that rebellion does not happen again.
21:56 We are told in Revelation that Satan was in rebellion and took
22:00 his angels with him so this can't happen again
22:03 and Christ says, you know,
22:05 these things must happen. These things must take place.
22:08 So there is no fix. But look.
22:10 Here is the thing, you know,
22:12 and I have said it before. Does our sense of urgency match
22:16 the current situation? Are we fully awake?
22:19 Are we on our "A" game for Christ?"
22:22 Are we working in a way that the current situation calls for?
22:27 And no, we are pretty much asleep as in Matthew 25.
22:31 JB There are certain things environmental issues that we
22:33 might see in the world that perhaps there are ... I don't
22:37 want to say solutions for ... but other ways of doing things.
22:41 But there is something that appears to get in the way very
22:44 often and that is human greed which is sin.
22:48 SC Right. JB So if we could only take sin
22:51 out of the picture we might have ways to deal with certain
22:54 environmental issues, certain environmental problems,
22:57 certain pollution issues. But whenever somebody has
23:01 a dollar in the game, a bottom line to protect, that
23:05 old greed instinct kicks in. Self gets involved
23:09 rather than selflessness. It seems as long as there are
23:13 people who are not committed to Jesus and who are living for
23:16 their own self rather than for Christ,
23:21 there is just no way out. SC Well I think this is an
23:23 argument for why the earth has to be recreated and why humans
23:30 are changed in the twinkling of an eye.
23:32 Nothing that is tainted by sin will make it into the new earth
23:37 and will make it into heaven. I mean you talk of basically
23:41 the power of sin, the power of sin to decay,
23:43 the power of sin to destroy. We see it in the world
23:46 around us. We are coming to the point,
23:47 even with our short term observation,
23:50 that we can see it in the natural world.
23:52 It has to be obliterated for us to be able to return to an earth
23:57 that is not in decay. JB The message is the earth
24:01 is going in one direction but the good news about that is
24:05 that it is telling us Jesus is coming back soon.
24:08 SC Absolutely. JB Surely there is no more
24:10 important work we can do now than to be ready for the Lord's
24:13 return. SC And this is the big question.
24:15 Are we ready? Really, this is where the
24:18 rubber meets the road. We see the signs.
24:23 The earth is decaying. We see prophecy being fulfilled.
24:27 We see the fullness of sin, both in man and the earth.
24:31 Are we ready? Do we know Jesus Christ as a
24:32 friend? Are we ready to lean on him in
24:35 the days ahead? Are we ready to embrace Him
24:38 when he returns? This is the actual question.
24:41 JB Scott Christiansen, it has been wonderful.
24:43 Thanks for taking the time. SC My pleasure.
24:44 JB God bless you.
24:48 ♪ [Pensive Interlude] ♪
24:58 It may be the greatest promise in the whole Bible--
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26:21 As we look around the world it seems that there is no doubt
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26:41 that's ever happened. ♪ [quiet melody] ♪
26:43 Our Father in heaven, thank you that we have a hope, hope
26:45 through all of the signs, hope through the distress and decay,
26:47 hope through an environment which is creaking
26:50 and waxing old, that Jesus is coming back soon
26:53 and I pray that when he does He'll gather us together
26:56 and take us with him. Lord, there is just one thing
26:59 and that is if Jesus owns our heart.
27:03 Friend, as we pray, would you yield your heart to Jesus?
27:05 Would you invite Him now to be your Lord and your Savior?
27:09 Would you let him live His life in you?
27:12 Father, please do those things and we will look beyond the
27:15 decay of this world to the hope we have in Jesus,
27:18 to that wonderful day when he comes back.
27:20 Keep us until then, I pray, in Jesus' name, Amen.
27:29 ♪ [Musical Interlude] ♪
27:43 I am very thankful you joined us today.
27:45 I look forward to seeing you again next time.
27:47 Until then, remember It is written,
27:50 man shall not live by bread alone but by every word
27:55 that proceeds from the mouth of God.
27:57 ♪ [Theme Music Swells] ♪


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Revised 2015-10-15