It Is Written

Everyday Ethics

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: John Bradshaw

Series Code: IIW

01:30 ♪[Theme music]♪
01:40 ♪[Theme music]♪
01:49 >>John Bradshaw: This is It Is Written. I'm John Bradshaw.
01:51 Thanks for joining me today.
01:53 Today I'm joined by a special guest.
01:55 Dr. Michael Cafferky is a professor of
01:58 business and management.
02:00 He's authored multiple books, and has lectured
02:03 around the world in the area of business ethics.
02:07 When you come to the Bible,
02:08 the Bible is a book filled with ethics.
02:10 In fact, I was speaking to some non-Christian kids
02:13 in Mongolia, of all places.
02:16 I asked them what they knew about the Bible.
02:19 None of the children knew anything at all except for one,
02:21 who said, “It's a book
02:23 that deals with God and is about ethics.”
02:27 Which is fair, I think.
02:29 Business ethics.
02:30 How do we bring ethics into our daily lives,
02:33 and why does it even matter?
02:34 Dr. Cafferky, thanks for being here.
02:37 >>Dr. Cafferky Glad to be here, thank you.
02:37 >>John: Now, you write about,
02:39 and you teach on the subject of ethics.
02:41 In front of me I have the cover of your new book,
02:44 published any day now,
02:45 “Business Ethics in Biblical Perspective.”
02:48 Intervarsity Press have published this book.
02:51 Tell me, let's start right at the beginning.
02:52 We're going to bring this around to a personal application.
02:55 We'll look at this from a very biblical point of view.
02:58 What is business ethics?
03:00 >>Dr. Cafferky Well, it's about doing the right thing.
03:02 But it's also about the process of deciding
03:05 what is the right thing to do.
03:08 And so we're really talking about,
03:09 when we talk about ethics,
03:10 we're talking about a process of thinking
03:12 and a process of doing that is based upon
03:16 some standard of right and wrong,
03:18 either a standard that maybe I make it myself,
03:20 or that I find outside of myself, perhaps in the Bible.
03:24 >>John: Is ethics and morality the same thing?
03:25 >>Dr. Cafferky Well, morality would be
03:27 the standards of right and wrong.
03:30 Ethics is the process of applying those standards
03:32 and trying to figure out now, okay,
03:34 what is right and wrong in this particular situation?
03:37 >>John: So why are ethics so important?
03:39 Or maybe I should say, how important are ethics
03:42 when you come to a business situation?
03:46 >>Dr. Cafferky Whether you're a religious person or not,
03:49 whether you're a Christian or believe in some other religion,
03:52 or no religion, business ethics is really important
03:56 just for the business itself.
03:58 It turns out that,
04:00 research shows that businesses who are ethical,
04:04 following a standard of right and wrong,
04:07 tend to recruit employees, loyal employees,
04:11 that contribute more to their company.
04:14 So it helps in recruiting new employees.
04:17 It helps in retaining workers,
04:19 who also like to work in a situation where there's
04:23 standards of right and wrong that are held to.
04:27 Research also shows that your stock price can actually go up
04:31 if you're an ethical organization.
04:32 So it's really important.
04:33 >>John: So what are some organizations,
04:35 I'm not asking so much for your opinion as the general consensus
04:38 what are some organizations
04:40 that are considered to have ethics figured out well?
04:43 >>Dr. Cafferky: Oh, wow.
04:44 Uh, I think there's, once in a while there's a list published,
04:47 and I forget where it's published,
04:49 of the best places to work...
04:51 >>John: Okay.
04:52 >>Dr. Cafferky: ...for instance.
04:54 Uh, certain, many of the Fortune 100 and 500 corporations
04:58 are considered to be some of the best places to work.
05:01 >>John: Which would buttress the idea we spoke of a moment ago:
05:04 if you have ethics going well,
05:06 your business tends to do better.
05:08 >>Dr. Cafferky: Sure.
05:08 >>John: Okay.
05:09 >>Dr. Cafferky: And then let's take it, let's take it,
05:10 scale it down to the small business.
05:13 Uh, viewers in their own community
05:15 will know of organizations, maybe family businesses,
05:19 that have been in town for many years,
05:21 and they know which businesses are the ethical businesses.
05:25 They trust those businesses, they repeat business as buyers,
05:29 or they'll repeat as sellers to those businesses.
05:31 They like doing business with people who are ethical.
05:33 >>John: Let's talk about this from a broad perspective.
05:36 Can you give me an example of an ethical question that was raised
05:41 maybe it made the news,
05:43 or maybe in academic circles it's a good case study
05:45 of an ethical question that was addressed one way or another?
05:51 What can we discuss?
05:52 >>Dr. Cafferky: Well, I think of the, uh, the story
05:55 of an executive of a food,
05:58 a chain of food stores in New England.
06:01 And there was a bit of a power struggle at the level of the,
06:04 the governance level of the board,
06:07 and this executive was let go, by a relative who was also
06:12 on the board and had gathered board support.
06:15 Let go.
06:17 Many employees said, you know, this won't stand.
06:20 And we're going to walk off, the job.
06:24 Okay, that raises a really important question.
06:26 First of all, is there grounds for firing this person?
06:29 That's one ethical question.
06:31 Okay, so now he's fired.
06:33 What about the employees who said, you know,
06:35 that wasn't right to fire him, and so we're going to walk.
06:38 Is that the right thing to do?
06:40 >>John: How do we determine, then,
06:41 what is the right thing to do?
06:43 >>Dr. Cafferky Oh, yeah.
06:44 >>John: Is this consensus?
06:46 Do we take a vote?
06:47 Or, or what processes ought to guide the way you figure out
06:53 what's ethical in a given situation?
06:54 >>Dr. Cafferky Yeah, that really is the big question.
06:57 How do we go about figuring out what is right and wrong?
07:01 And what is the process we use?
07:03 There are some people who say,
07:04 “Well, there really are no standards of right and wrong.
07:07 And so whatever you think is right, then that's right.”
07:12 That would be what we call egoist approach, right.
07:14 There are others who kind of take the opposite point of view,
07:16 and say, “No, there are absolute standards.
07:18 Let's have a conversation about those standards
07:20 and how they best apply to this particular situation.”
07:23 But there are absolutes.
07:25 And that would be the scriptural perspective for sure.
07:28 >>John: So why are ethics important?
07:30 I mean, I'm a businessman.
07:32 I just want to make money.
07:34 It's my job.
07:35 I'm not here to make friends.
07:37 So if I can, if I can raid a company
07:39 or artificially jack up the stock price and sell out,
07:43 it doesn't matter who I hurt.
07:45 Really, why does it matter?
07:47 You may simply say there's a question of human decency,
07:49 but what if I don't care about that?
07:50 >>Dr. Cafferky Yeah, well, for some people,
07:51 they can go a long time on that kind of approach
07:55 or philosophy of business, yes.
07:57 And certainly some people might get hurt along the way;
08:00 a 30- or 40-year career, that can happen.
08:03 Other people, especially as we mature and we get older,
08:07 we say, you know, life is not just about the money.
08:09 I do value relationships here,
08:12 among my worker, with my workers, with my family,
08:14 with my community.
08:16 There are a lot of reasons
08:17 to start being concerned about ethics.
08:19 And it has to do with our social connections with each other,
08:22 it turns out.
08:23 >>John: I want to bring this around and look at this from
08:25 a biblical point of view.
08:27 Why, why is business ethics important for someone who,
08:33 who is striving to be or desires to be faithful to God
08:36 in his or her own personal experience?
08:39 >>Dr. Cafferky To me this is the,
08:39 this is one of the big questions of,
08:41 what does it mean to have faith in God?
08:45 Faith is not just something I think about,
08:48 like a mental, uh, process I go through,
08:52 or some mental state I get to at some point.
08:55 That's part of faith.
08:56 Believing, that's part of faith.
08:58 But faith also is being faithful in what I do.
09:04 As it says, I think, in the book of James,
09:06 “Faith without works”
09:08 that's his way of putting it, right?
09:10 So faith really is stuff in action,
09:13 things that we do, not just things,
09:15 faith is not just this sense of psychological security:
09:19 oh, I believe the right things; therefore I must be safe now.
09:23 Yeah, that's a part of it,
09:24 but biblical faith is faith in action, faithfulness to God.
09:29 As part of the response of gratitude for what God has done.
09:32 >>John: There's a lot here:
09:33 business, ethics, and faith in God.
09:37 This is where the rubber meets the road in a person's life.
09:40 It's more than what you think.
09:42 It's how your faith plays out in everyday life.
09:44 We'll have more in just a moment.
09:45 ♪[Music]♪
09:52 It may seem that integrity is in short supply.
09:54 But it does not need to be in short supply in your life.
09:58 I'd like you to get today's free offer,
10:00 “Challenged,”
10:01 written by Dr. Michael Cafferky and myself.
10:04 How you can maintain and demonstrate integrity
10:07 in your personal life or in your business life.
10:10 Call us: 800-253-3000
10:13 800-253-3000
10:15 Visit us at itiswritten.com
10:17 or write to the address on your screen for
10:19 “Challenged”
10:22 >>John Bradshaw: This is It Is Written. I'm John Bradshaw.
10:24 Thanks for joining me today.
10:26 My guest is Dr. Michael Cafferky,
10:27 a professor of management and business at
10:30 Southern Adventist University in eastern Tennessee.
10:33 Dr. Cafferky has authored numerous books
10:35 and has lectured around the world in the areas of
10:38 business ethics and faith.
10:41 Dr. Cafferky, I'm interested in finding out for you,
10:44 from you, rather, what the Bible says about business ethics.
10:48 I think this is important.
10:49 A lot of businesspeople identify as believers in God.
10:54 Not all of them really stop and drill down and examine
10:58 themselves as to whether they're really acting ethically,
11:01 whether it matters from the Bible.
11:02 So, what does the Bible say about ethics in business?
11:05 >>Dr. Cafferky Oh, the Bible says a lot
11:07 about business and ethics, starting in Genesis.
11:10 And actually, if you follow this all the way through scripture
11:13 to the Book of Revelation,
11:14 we even find references in the Book of Revelation about
11:17 business-related ethics, as well.
11:20 You can start in the book of Genesis.
11:22 Genesis, chapter 1 and chapter 2.
11:24 Some people turn to as the foundation ideas
11:28 for why God created this earth,
11:31 how he put human beings here on this earth,
11:33 and some of the basic ideas and principles
11:36 upon which life was started.
11:38 >>John: Give me a for instance.
11:39 We don't have to recite chapter and verse exactly,
11:41 but let's look at an idea,
11:43 just so we get an understanding
11:45 of what it is we're talking about here,
11:47 an ethical situation or a commentary on business ethics
11:50 that we find in the early chapters of the Bible.
11:51 >>Dr. Cafferky: Okay.
11:52 There is this idea from ancient times,
11:55 when people were buying and selling goods.
11:57 They would use a piece of technology
12:00 that we would call a scale, a weighing scale, all right?
12:04 And you would put product on one side of the scale
12:06 and weights on the other, and when they measured equal,
12:10 then you'd know, here's the,
12:12 here's the value for that product.
12:14 And then there was a price associated.
12:15 Okay, so that's the technology.
12:17 The scriptures talks about these scales,
12:20 and how the trader must be very careful
12:23 not to have false weights,
12:25 or a secret set of weights in the bag, it's called,
12:28 because they used to carry these weights in a bag, right?
12:30 Don't use a false set of weights to cheat your customer
12:34 when you're selling product.
12:36 Uh, the book of Proverbs takes up this same idea.
12:39 Solomon the King recites this same idea during his kingship:
12:44 don't use false weights when you're trading.
12:47 >>John: Let me ask you this.
12:48 Is there a lot of dishonesty in business today?
12:52 >>Dr. Cafferky Well, there is, unfortunately.
12:54 But, you know, the marketplace would not work if dishonesty
12:59 was rampant everywhere.
13:01 In fact, that's one of the principles upon
13:03 which a market economy is founded.
13:06 The experts have said. You've got to be honest.
13:09 Yes, there, it is true that some people are dishonest.
13:12 But generally people have to be honest in order
13:14 for the marketplace to work, right?
13:16 There are certain things that we put in place as,
13:19 as protections and boundaries.
13:21 We hire accountants, for instance, to help us be honest.
13:25 >>John: Auditors.
13:26 >>Dr. Cafferky: Auditors, to keep records,
13:28 transparency of the information, so we can trust.
13:31 That's another issue, of course, related to honesty, is trust.
13:35 So honesty is absolutely important.
13:37 And yes, people are dishonest.
13:40 But if the majority of people weren't honest in a free market,
13:43 it would collapse fairly quickly.
13:45 >>John: Okay, let's get back to the Bible.
13:46 Let's look at a couple of other situations.
13:48 >>Dr. Cafferky Yeah.
13:49 Let's talk about the Ten Commandments briefly.
13:51 Hmm, now, many people think the Ten Commandments
13:54 is simply kind of a random list of ten things
13:57 that you shouldn't do.
13:58 Or some things are said you should do,
14:00 a few things are said in the negative, don't do, right?
14:02 And it's kind of random actually,
14:04 when you look carefully and study these Ten Commandments,
14:07 all of them are related to business and business activities
14:12 from the point of view of the people of those times.
14:15 >>John: Now, do you mind if I read a commandment to you,
14:18 and we'll, uh, we'll see how this is associated with ethics.
14:22 >>Dr. Cafferky Okay.
14:22 >>John: Can we do that?
14:23 And there are a couple that I'm wondering,
14:26 how might this one be associated with ethics.
14:30 >>Dr. Cafferky: Okay.
14:31 >>John: I'll give you a nice easy one.
14:31 Thou shalt not...
14:32 >>Dr. Cafferky Okay.
14:33 >>John: ...Thou shalt not steal.
14:34 >>Dr. Cafferky: Oh, good, you started with an easy one.
14:35 Yeah, that's the most obvious one...
14:36 >>John: Yeah.
14:37 >>Dr. Cafferky ...of all of the ten.
14:38 Thank you so much.
14:39 Though shalt not steal.
14:41 Well, just think about it.
14:43 If stealing were rampant in the marketplace,
14:47 how much trading of things of value
14:50 would people actually engage in?
14:53 If I thought that what I bought today
14:56 someone would come and steal tomorrow,
14:59 why would I go and buy something
15:01 that I know someone's going to take from me.
15:04 See, what happens in theft,
15:06 it's not only a disrespect of the person who worked hard
15:10 to earn the money to buy the product they own,
15:12 it's a disrespect of them,
15:14 but it's also a disrespect to the Creator,
15:18 who created all things from which
15:20 that product was made, as well.
15:23 Okay?
15:24 But just think about that.
15:26 If we, we didn't trust the safety of things that we own
15:30 using our hard-earned money,
15:32 the economy would, would tank.
15:34 >>John: Umm. Thou shalt not kill?
15:36 >>Dr. Cafferky Oh my, this is, it's not quite so obvious,
15:39 but it is, it is so clear,
15:41 that without physical safety in the marketplace,
15:45 there would not be trading.
15:48 If I cannot feel safe going out to the market
15:51 and buying and selling,
15:52 right safety for my own physical
15:54 well-being, health, and even for my life again,
15:58 that same impact on the economy, it would tank.
16:01 >>John: Does this mean that questions of
16:02 occupational safety and health, uh, safety...
16:04 >>Dr. Cafferky Absolutely.
16:06 >>John: ...within the working environment,
16:07 those are ethical questions too?
16:08 >>Dr. Cafferky Well, of course,
16:10 and that's the positive side of
16:11 “thou shalt not kill” commandment, right?
16:13 The positive side is, let's foster flourishing life
16:16 for people who we are with, who we have responsibility for,
16:20 our workers, our family, and our, our neighbors.
16:23 So yes, occupational safety is a positive expression
16:27 of that commandment, “Thou shalt not kill.”
16:29 >>John: There's a, there's a commandment in the Bible
16:31 that's been pretty well forgotten by everybody.
16:34 It's the last one, Exodus 20, verse 19:
16:37 “Thou shalt not covet.”
16:38 >>Dr. Cafferky: Oh yeah.
16:40 >>John: Where's the, where's the business ethics in covetousness?
16:44 >>Dr. Cafferky: God designs for us to have a flourishing life.
16:47 Okay.
16:49 And that flourishing life from the scripture point of view
16:50 includes several dimensions.
16:52 I'm going to come to the business part,
16:53 so just work with me here.
16:54 >>John: Okay, sure.
16:55 >>Dr. Cafferky: Uh, first of all,
16:56 our spiritual relationship with God.
16:59 That's part of the flourishing,
17:00 the foundation for a flourishing life.
17:03 Social harmony, with our family and friends in the community.
17:08 Even international peace, right?
17:10 That's part of this flourishing life.
17:12 Physical health and well-being.
17:13 Mental health.
17:14 And there's another dimension that scripture also includes
17:17 in this idea of flourishing life: the economic dimension.
17:21 Oh yeah.
17:23 If we don't put some limits on the economic dimension of our,
17:28 of our life, of this flourishing life,
17:30 it turns out the other dimensions start to suffer.
17:33 And the tenth commandment,
17:35 I'm going to come around to that tenth commandment,
17:36 “Thou shalt not covet,”
17:38 is a way to put some boundaries around our economic activities.
17:45 >>John: Why should those boundaries be there?
17:47 You're telling me that I can't maximize my earning potential,
17:51 or I shouldn't pad my wallet as much as I might like?
17:54 >>Dr. Cafferky: The scripture is clear.
17:56 God desires for us abundance.
17:58 He tells us in the fourth commandment,
18:00 work hard six days a week, right?
18:03 But the seventh, I know this is the fourth commandment,
18:06 but it's going to relate it to the tenth,
18:07 because there's a similar principle of being content.
18:10 That's what we, what we get from the fruits of our labor.
18:13 So yes, work hard, absolutely.
18:15 Achieve abundance.
18:18 But if we don't put constraints
18:20 on our efforts to achieve abundance,
18:22 it turns out that we start hurting people around us.
18:25 We start destroying physical and mental health
18:29 when we don't put constraints on that economic activity.
18:32 >>John: Business ethics. Quite a field of study,
18:35 and Dr. Cafferky's studied it more than most.
18:37 We'll be back with more about ethics, business,
18:39 the Bible and you, in just a moment.
18:42 ♪[Music]♪
18:51 >>Announcer: In Matthew 4:4, the Word of God says,
18:54 “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bead alone,
18:56 but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.”
19:01 “Every Word” is a one-minute, Bible-based daily devotional
19:04 presented by Pastor John Bradshaw,
19:06 and designed especially for busy people like you.
19:09 Look for Every Word on selected networks,
19:12 or watch it online every day on our website,
19:14 ItIsWritten.com.
19:16 Receive a daily spiritual boost.
19:19 Watch “Every Word.” You'll be glad you did.
19:21 Here's a sample.
19:24 ♪[Theme music]♪
19:29 Thanks for joining me.
19:30 The reality is, we live in the midst of a spiritual battle.
19:33 Someone wants you to be saved.
19:35 God, who offers you salvation through Jesus;
19:38 Jesus, who died for your sins.
19:40 But there's someone who wants you not to be saved,
19:42 and that's the devil, Satan.
19:44 So notice Joshua 20, verse 5.
19:46 Joshua is writing about the cities of refuge,
19:49 safe places for those who've accidentally taken a life.
19:52 He says, “Then if the avenger of blood pursues him,
19:56 they shall not deliver the slayer into his hand,
19:58 because he struck his neighbor unintentionally,
20:00 but did not hate him beforehand.”
20:03 The person fleeing to the city of refuge had to be intentional.
20:06 Why?
20:06 Because there was someone pursuing him.
20:08 In the same way it's vital to remember the enormous importance
20:11 of fleeing to safety in Jesus.
20:13 Someone wants you to let go of eternal life.
20:15 So stay close to Jesus.
20:16 Dwell in him, the city of refuge.
20:19 And let's live today by every word.
20:20 ♪[Theme music]♪
20:25 >>John: Thanks for joining me today on It Is Written.
20:27 My guest, Dr. Michael Cafferky, has written extensively about
20:30 business and ethics, and how it relates to
20:33 a person's relationship with Jesus Christ.
20:35 A couple of moments ago, Dr. Cafferky,
20:38 we were discussing the Ten Commandments
20:40 and their role in ethics and business.
20:43 And you mentioned something interesting.
20:45 When we discuss killing and stealing and lying,
20:49 these are pretty clear ethical questions.
20:51 The Bible says, “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.”
20:54 >>Dr. Cafferky Right.
20:55 >>John: How do we relate that to a question of business ethics?
20:58 >>Dr. Cafferky Oh, this is, this is fascinating.
21:01 This question will take us, you know,
21:03 a little bit deeper to understanding the Sabbath
21:05 as something bigger and wonderful
21:08 than just a day of worship,
21:09 although the day of worship is really important, in fact,
21:11 that's the foundation,
21:13 taking a day from work,
21:15 not working, to worship in community, uh, our God.
21:21 Okay, so worship of God in community,
21:24 that's kind of the heart of the Sabbath.
21:25 The Sabbath is also about being content with what I have earned
21:30 and what I've gained from my labors.
21:32 Six days you shall work, it says, and do all your labor.
21:36 But the seventh day is the Sabbath,
21:38 and keep the Sabbath holy, right?
21:40 So six days of work, but let's be content with what we
21:43 did earn and obtain from our efforts.
21:46 That's, that's central to the Sabbath commandment.
21:48 >>John: Now, you've written extensively about,
21:50 about a couple of concepts dealing with the heart and,
21:53 and the walk, a person's walk.
21:56 >>Dr. Cafferky: Yeah, those are Bible ideas.
21:56 >>John: Yeah.
21:57 >>Dr. Cafferky: Yeah.
21:58 >>John: Let's, let's talk about that.
21:59 Let's talk about the walk particularly.
22:01 I don't know if that's all we'll have time for.
22:03 So let's talk about that.
22:04 What is, what is this walk issue,
22:05 and how does that impact us from an ethical point of view.
22:07 >>Dr. Cafferky: Well, that's an image of scripture,
22:09 or a metaphor, that scripture uses several times.
22:13 Moses uses it in his writings,
22:15 and it's used in other places as well.
22:16 It's actually used in the New Testament and the Old Testament.
22:19 So, the walk refers to our activities in, in the community,
22:25 when we're with other people,
22:26 things that we do that other people see.
22:29 We're walking, meaning we're behaving in certain ways
22:32 that affect other people.
22:33 That's the walk.
22:34 Let me share a passage of scripture
22:37 from Deuteronomy, chapter 6, and, um, verse 6.
22:43 This follows one of the famous sayings of scripture,
22:47 the famous, “Here, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.”
22:51 That's the, that's the famous from ancient times.
22:53 In verse 6, “These words, which I command you this day,
22:57 shall be upon your heart,
22:59 and you shall teach them diligently to your children;
23:01 you shall talk to them when you sit in your house
23:04 and when you walk by the way.”
23:08 Is he talking about, okay, let's take a hike
23:09 now in the mountains, and we're going to have a conversation
23:11 about the Ten Commandments?
23:12 >>John: What is he talking about?
23:13 >>Dr. Cafferky: He's talking about when we move
23:15 outside of our tent, or our little house, go out,
23:19 we're walking out in to the community to do our business,
23:22 our buying and our selling.
23:24 That's when these principles of the Ten Commandments
23:27 should be on our hearts, our minds, and on our lips,
23:29 to have conversations with people.
23:31 You see, business is a moral activity;
23:33 it's not just amoral money-making.
23:36 From the scripture point of view, it's moral activity;
23:39 it reflects our relationship with God.
23:42 And so the walking by the way, or the,
23:44 the walking means doing our life,
23:48 doing our business of life with other people.
23:50 >>John: The Bible speaks a lot about business, doesn't it?
23:52 Maybe more than many people would even know.
23:54 >>Dr. Cafferky: It does.
23:56 In fact, there are,
23:57 we read a lot of passages about love, redemption.
24:01 Those are wonderful things.
24:02 Scripture talks a lot about money:
24:05 how we earn our money, how we spend our money,
24:08 the principles of which we should relate to each other,
24:11 the work of managers, for instance,
24:13 which are fascinating ideas,
24:17 and they form a wonderful perspective, if you will.
24:22 And they relate to our entire life,
24:23 not just our life in church and life in our family,
24:26 but life in the marketplace, as well.
24:29 >>John: Business people, clearly, particularly people
24:32 in business who claim to have some sort of moral code,
24:35 who claim to be answerable to God,
24:37 clearly ought to be thinking strongly about how,
24:39 how the Bible shapes and forms their ethical practices.
24:42 It's true for individuals, though, too,
24:44 people who don't run businesses, but are living their lives,
24:47 because we all conduct business, don't we?
24:49 >>Dr. Cafferky Oh, yes.
24:50 >>John: Whether it's with the company with which we have
24:51 our cell phone plan, or, or the convenience store up the street.
24:56 >>Dr. Cafferky: Each of us is a buyer.
24:58 It takes two to do business: a buyer and a seller.
25:01 Somebody has to sell something, someone has to buy something,
25:03 in order for that to work.
25:04 So we're all buyers, meaning each family unit,
25:07 and even as individuals we're buying and selling.
25:10 And so the scripture doesn't relate just to pastors,
25:13 just to Bible teachers,
25:14 or just to us when we're in church.
25:17 How would, how would God's message be truthful
25:20 if it only applied to those aspects of our life?
25:24 Going to, going to church.
25:26 The times when I'm reading the Bible,
25:27 that's when I'm the most righteous, right?
25:30 That's when I desire most.
25:31 How about when I go to the marketplace?
25:34 That's when our faith, in response to God's grace to us,
25:38 that's when the faith, I contend, really is shown.
25:41 >>John: I'm going to ask you a question
25:42 that you're not expecting.
25:44 Recently I was in a country where you visit the market
25:47 and you say, “How much is this bowl?”
25:49 >>Dr. Cafferky Oh boy.
25:49 >>John: And they say, 250.
25:52 And you know that they're, they're high-balling you.
25:55 But you've got to come back and barter with that person.
25:58 >>Dr. Cafferky: Negotiate.
25:59 >>John: How do you do that ethically?
26:02 And keep this in mind: you're in a third-world country,
26:04 and you've come from a first-world country
26:05 with comparably a pocket stuffed full of money.
26:09 How does a person go about that sort of,
26:11 it could be you saw something on Craig's List
26:13 and you want to buy a car,
26:15 and they're asking for eight and a half thousand dollars,
26:16 and you don't want to pay that much.
26:18 How do we enter into something like that
26:20 guided by biblical ethics?
26:22 >>Dr. Cafferky: Yeah.
26:23 One of the biblical principles, which is a theme of scripture,
26:26 is called, it's called wisdom.
26:28 Okay.
26:29 Wisdom is not just knowledge about the market,
26:33 but it includes that.
26:35 But wisdom comes from the community that I'm a part of.
26:39 And so the wise thing to do would be to say, okay,
26:43 I'm going to find out as much as I can
26:45 about the marketplace here,
26:47 before I start negotiating and entering a transaction.
26:51 If I let someone take advantage of me,
26:54 and this is a scriptural idea,
26:55 if I let someone take advantage of me,
26:57 they're taking advantage of the community.
27:00 And so, to follow God in a faithful way,
27:03 I'm going to try to avoid that.
27:05 So I might do some research, in another country
27:09 I might take someone with me,
27:12 if I if I knew someone who lived in that marketplace
27:15 or that community.
27:16 Someone with me to the marketplace.
27:19 To have a conversation about the prices
27:21 and so forth of the products.
27:23 >>John: I think we are about out of time,
27:24 but this is fascinating because we all live our lives,
27:27 we all conduct business on some level,
27:29 and we all will be guided by something particularly
27:32 if we are believers in God,
27:33 we want that to be the Bible,
27:34 we want our ethics to be formed by biblical principles.
27:37 Dr. Michael Cafferky, thanks so much for joining me today.
27:40 >>Dr. Cafferky: Pleasure being here.
27:41 >>John: Ethics and the Bible.
27:43 Our relationship with God,
27:45 certainly as we reach out after God we want God to
27:47 guide us in the right way, that we're not only representing Him,
27:51 but our lives are characterized by God's character.
27:53 And that thats what we reflect
27:54 to the world in all our dealings.
27:56 ♪[Music]♪
28:03 >>John Bradshaw: It may seem that integrity
28:04 is in short supply.
28:06 But it does not need to be in short supply in your life.
28:09 I'd like you to get today's free offer,
28:11 “Challenged”
28:12 written by Dr. Michael Cafferky and myself.
28:15 How you can maintain and demonstrate integrity
28:18 in your personal life or in your business life.
28:20 Call us: 800-253-3000
28:23 800-253-3000
28:26 Visit us at itiswritten.com
28:28 or write to the address on your screen for
28:30 “Challenged”
28:33 >>John Bradshaw: I'm glad you've joined me today,
28:35 why don't we take a moment to pray together.
28:36 Our Father in Heaven,
28:38 we thank you today for Jesus,
28:40 we thank you for a life that was lived ethically,
28:43 morally pure,
28:45 righteously.
28:46 We fail you many times,
28:48 but we want our lives to be characterized
28:51 like Jesus' life with the presence
28:53 and the power of the God of Heaven.
28:57 Bless us, that in all we do, only Jesus would be seen.
29:02 That we would represent you right,
29:04 and experience the joy of a life filled with abundance.
29:07 Abundance of your presence and your blessing.
29:10 We thank you today and we pray,
29:12 in Jesus' name,
29:13 Amen.
29:14 Dr. Cafferky, thanks so much for joining me today,
29:16 this has been a blessing.
29:17 >>Dr. Cafferky: Thank you, its been a pleasure.
29:19 >>John: Let's do this again sometime, thank so much.
29:21 And thank you for joining me today.
29:23 I look forward to seeing you again next time.
29:25 Until then, please remember:
29:28 “It is written,
29:29 man shall not live by bread alone,
29:31 but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.”
29:36 ♪[Music]♪

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Revised 2017-07-06