Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Wyatt Allen, Brian Hamilton
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000479A
00:01 On our last two programs we've been talking about
00:03 prison ministry
00:04 and how churches can share
00:07 the unsearchable riches of Christ with prisoners.
00:11 Today, what we'd like to do is talk about
00:14 what do you do when a prisoner shows up
00:16 at your church doors?
00:18 Join us on Issues and Answers.
00:51 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn,
00:52 and we welcome you once again to Issues & Answers.
00:55 We've been so blessed over the past couple of weeks
00:57 as we have spoken with Wyatt Allen, who,
01:00 the Lord had an amazing thing in this young man's life,
01:04 took him from crime to Christ
01:06 and He's using him in a mighty way.
01:09 So we've been talking about prison ministries
01:12 but we have another special guest joining us today,
01:14 Wyatt's back but we've got someone else,
01:17 we wanna talk to you about
01:19 "What do you do when a prisoner shows up
01:22 on your church door steps?"
01:24 So let me introduce our special guest
01:26 and Brian Hamilton,
01:28 you are not a stranger to anyone
01:30 who watches 3ABN with frequency.
01:34 Let's say you are the Chief Financial Officer for 3ABN
01:38 and you're also the Director of our prison ministries.
01:41 Give us just a short synopsis
01:43 of what 3ABN's prison ministry is about.
01:48 Here locally, we have a team of people
01:52 from our local area churches
01:55 that minister in three different prisons,
01:57 we have one federal one in Marion that we minister to
02:01 and two Illinois state prisons,
02:05 then 3ABN also has a department,
02:08 they correspond with inmates
02:11 and we share Christian literature with them
02:15 as well as Bibles
02:18 and just letters of encouragement.
02:21 Oftentimes, an inmate will learn about us
02:24 because they see our programming on television
02:27 in their facility.
02:28 Yeah, we are in a lot of facilities,
02:31 most recently we found out, even Guantanamo Bay.
02:34 Yes, I know,
02:35 that was exciting to learn that.
02:37 Yeah, that was.
02:38 We were some place we never knew we were at.
02:39 Yes, amen.
02:41 And just recently,
02:42 we just started airing in prison in Las Cruces,
02:46 New Mexico.
02:48 And I had the privilege of going with Dan Peek,
02:50 one of our engineers to that facility and help,
02:53 you know, set it up and that was fun.
02:55 That was a neat experience to see.
02:58 Yeah, that is exciting.
02:59 Well, and our other guest returning,
03:01 now for the third week in a row is Wyatt Allen.
03:04 Wyatt is an evangelist for Amazing Facts and, Wyatt,
03:10 it's your story we've been talking about,
03:12 'From Crime to Christ.'
03:13 He's also the author of an incredible book,
03:16 one that I highly recommend for reading of anyone
03:20 but what a special blessing
03:22 it would be to make certain every prisoner
03:25 you're ministering to,
03:26 gets a copy of this book called
03:28 "Least of The Least, From Crime to Christ."
03:32 It is all about Wyatt's story and how he, in prison,
03:36 the Lord helped him redeem his time
03:39 and this book is...
03:41 It's interesting how you wrote it, Wyatt,
03:43 because we have
03:45 all of the 28 fundamentals intertwined in this
03:48 but it was as your discovery...
03:53 You know, as you discovered these various things
03:54 from time to time and what they meant to you.
03:56 Beautiful work.
03:58 Well, gentlemen,
03:59 we're just really excited to have you both here
04:01 'cause we've got a lot to talk about but, Brian,
04:04 we've heard Ryan's testimony.
04:07 Tell us how you who pastored for so many years
04:11 and then you were a Conference treasurer,
04:13 you became the Chief Financial Officer for 3ABN,
04:18 you hadn't done prison ministry during any of those times.
04:21 How did you get interested in prison ministry?
04:26 Okay, about six and half years ago,
04:28 we received a phone call one evening after work
04:32 and that phone call was sort of,
04:35 defining moment in our life, in our family's life
04:38 and the life of our elder son
04:41 and that phone call was to tell us
04:44 that he was arrested
04:47 and was being charged for murder.
04:49 In fact, first degree murder, that was shocking to us.
04:54 Never had a ticket, never been in a game,
04:56 never used drugs or alcohol
04:59 and I can't explain why it happened,
05:04 I just know he was involved in a very tragic situation...
05:08 And so through that journey with him,
05:13 in that experience and what he had to go through,
05:16 it opened ourselves to a whole new world
05:20 dealing with law enforcement and judicial systems
05:24 and all of these type of things,
05:26 it's not a user-friendly world.
05:28 But in the process of being introduced
05:30 to that whole new world,
05:33 we also had our eyes opened
05:35 to a whole new possibility of ministry.
05:39 Because as I look into the eyes of inmates now,
05:42 I do every week, as I look into their faces
05:45 and look into their eyes, I see my son.
05:48 Amen. Amen.
05:49 Okay? And I know how I love my son.
05:53 And so then I translate that same care,
05:56 that same love for those young men
05:59 that we meet every week.
06:01 Amen, and I have to say
06:03 and I'm not saying this to lift you up
06:04 but to lift up Jesus, is that,
06:09 you and your precious wife, Diane...
06:12 Demonstrated the grace of God, you were so inspiring
06:15 as you went through this
06:17 because we know it was for no better,
06:20 for lack of any other way to express that
06:22 it was a kick in the gut to you.
06:25 But you went through the whole experience
06:29 with transparency,
06:31 you were holding on to the Lord,
06:34 you never lost faith in the Lord.
06:36 As a matter of fact, you drew closer to one another
06:39 and closer to God and it was just
06:41 so inspiring to watch you go through this
06:44 and then to see how now you look at your son,
06:48 he has since turned his life totally over to the Lord...
06:52 And you look upon him as though he were a missionary,
06:56 he got in a mission field...
06:59 And it's just very inspiring so...
07:02 But now let me ask you, gentlemen, you know,
07:04 just whoever wants to kick this thing off.
07:07 We've been talking about prison ministry,
07:11 what do you do,
07:14 how does the church prepare or how does an inmate prepare,
07:17 maybe, for release?
07:18 How do we prepare for the day
07:21 that someone shows up on our door step,
07:23 they've just been released?
07:25 How do we treat the newly released prisoner?
07:30 Well, I think the preparation should begin long before
07:33 the inmate ever gets out and, you know, for me,
07:38 the moment I realized that one day
07:39 I'm gonna have a parole hearing
07:41 and I may possibly can get out of prison,
07:43 then I'm thinking, "Wow!
07:44 What am I gonna do when I get out?"
07:46 And so I think the preparation first has to start
07:49 with the proactive decisions of an inmate
07:52 who knows they'll be released.
07:54 Now there are some that won't be
07:55 getting out of prison
07:57 and they still have a ministry inside for them.
08:00 But I just wanna say, prison ministry,
08:03 it's a very broad but one of the least focused
08:07 and parts of prison ministry is that
08:08 the helping of the inmate to get out,
08:11 to help them get established into the society
08:14 and to be a productive citizen, to be a good neighbor
08:17 and obviously, a good Christian.
08:20 But there's a lot of dynamics that go into that
08:22 and getting involved in that local church,
08:24 that can be sticky
08:25 depending on the kind of crime the inmate was involved with.
08:29 But I guess, I can speak from my experience
08:31 on the preparation side of an inmate
08:35 and, you know, there it's a big world
08:39 and I got locked up at 15,
08:41 so I never had my driving license
08:42 until I got out.
08:43 But that's not the story for most
08:45 and so the preparation of getting out,
08:47 you just have to decide
08:50 that I'm no longer gonna be the person I was before,
08:54 you need to understand the importance of connecting
08:56 with that local church,
08:57 connecting with the spiritual leadership
08:59 at that church.
09:01 Meanwhile, stay humble enough and teachable enough
09:04 to let them help you
09:06 and but on the practical side of things,
09:09 learning all about finances, how to balance a check book
09:12 and get your education if you don't have your GED
09:15 because getting a job,
09:16 you know, that's gonna be so necessary.
09:19 Getting any practical skills, what I did was,
09:22 I studied at the library a lot
09:25 and I kept up to date with the magazines
09:27 and scriptures they had.
09:28 So I knew about new technology,
09:31 I didn't know how to use a cell phone
09:32 but I knew that cell phones were out there
09:35 and that pretty much without one,
09:38 you're gonna be behind times.
09:40 And so I tried to stay up to date on the new technology
09:43 and I think just the little things like that,
09:45 better prepared me for just the reality of life.
09:48 Did you know what church you would be coming,
09:50 what you would be attending,
09:52 I mean, was there something
09:53 that you had talked with the pastor
09:54 before you got out?
09:56 Well, sort of, here's the thing.
09:59 The church that assisted me,
10:01 they have a very strong established prison ministries,
10:03 by that I mean, there's about four, five people
10:05 in that church, they'd love it.
10:07 And that's about it.
10:08 But what happens is
10:10 they really liked, they go in and visit
10:13 but they also wanna help people get established
10:15 when they come out,
10:16 but before me, several people got out
10:19 and they ended up either going back to drugs
10:21 or stealing car for the person that they were helping out
10:23 or just, they even kind of got burned a few times.
10:27 And so whenever, it was my turn to get out,
10:29 the church was like, you know what?
10:31 We've helped some people out
10:32 and it hasn't turned out too good
10:33 and so they were really reluctant.
10:35 But the advantage that I had was that brother Doug Graybill
10:39 and I'm gonna put his name out there,
10:40 he's a saint, let me tell you.
10:41 He went on the line for me, he says,
10:45 "Look, I've been coming into this prison system for like,
10:47 more than 10 years helping this guy out
10:49 and I've got to know him pretty good.
10:51 I think we can work with him."
10:52 And I'm so thankful he did that
10:54 because when I got out of prison,
10:55 the church, it kind of adopted me
10:58 and this is the church, I never walked into
11:00 a Seventh-day Adventist church before,
11:02 I became an Adventist when I locked up.
11:03 Right, you went from being a Satanist...
11:05 You got it right away. To a Christian.
11:07 So Brian, when the release has come,
11:13 how important is it
11:15 that the church knows what the crime was
11:19 and is there a difference in the way for example,
11:23 if someone was in for armed robbery
11:26 or if someone was in for, maybe they are petafile
11:29 or have done some kind of a, committed a sexual crime,
11:32 in my mind, there would certainly be a difference
11:35 in the way the church received him
11:37 or may be not received is the wrong word,
11:40 you should receive him
11:41 but how you process them... Process them...
11:43 And manage that, yeah? And manage them, yes.
11:49 If a church hasn't been involved in prison ministry
11:52 and all of a sudden someone shows up on their door,
11:55 that's been recent released and the news gets out.
11:58 The first thing you have to deal with is fear
12:02 because people are afraid of anyone
12:05 who has been an inmate and committed a felony.
12:08 Doesn't matter what kind of felony,
12:11 and there are certain ones, of course,
12:12 are worse than others in our minds,
12:15 so that's where I think a pastor can help,
12:19 church members even before an inmate would show up
12:23 by preaching a few sermons about the subject
12:27 and how you would deal with someone
12:30 and it would be a nice advantage
12:32 if the church knew ahead of time
12:33 that so and so is gonna be released
12:35 and they'd like to come to church here
12:37 and they've asked to come to church here.
12:39 The pastor can prepare
12:41 the church members ahead of time
12:44 with how to relate to someone who has committed a crime
12:49 and now has served their time
12:51 and wants to come and be a part of the family.
12:53 So I think that's, dealing with fear is the first,
12:56 you know, important thing, then the nature of the crime.
13:02 I remember, as a secretary at one of our conferences,
13:06 I had to go and help a church through a situation
13:10 where a sex offender had come
13:13 and started attending their local church
13:16 and because of the nature of the crime,
13:20 it happened to be one committed against young people,
13:24 they were quite concerned about his attending in their midst
13:30 because they have children in church
13:31 and they don't wanna see any children hurt
13:33 but at the same time,
13:34 they did want to minister to the inmate
13:37 and they want to welcome him.
13:38 So how did you relate to that?
13:41 What we did is
13:44 we met with the board and the elders
13:49 and discussed, what kind of accountability did we feel
13:53 that we should have in place for this inmate
13:57 for the church's protection as well as his protection?
14:01 Because, you know, you could be wrongly accused
14:04 by someone who's afraid of you,
14:06 you could be wrongly accused and be right back in again...
14:09 That's excellent point.
14:10 You know, and so it's a protection for both parties.
14:13 That's right.
14:15 We determined in that particular case that
14:18 that young man should not be involved
14:21 in any kind of youth activities.
14:23 No path finders, no Sabbath school, you know,
14:27 departments running at that time.
14:28 If he wanted to be a part of ministry in the church
14:31 and needed to be in the area where there was adults.
14:34 That's right. Okay.
14:35 We also felt that it was important
14:37 that we had someone as, sort of, his buddy
14:42 that when he came to church, that person would be with him.
14:46 And when he went to the bathroom or places,
14:49 they just were his friend and were with him
14:53 and that way, that would be accountability.
14:57 Now sadly in this particular case,
15:00 the young man didn't wanna agree to that,
15:02 he didn't feel forgiven unless we opened all doors to him
15:06 and that was sad.
15:08 And that's what you talked
15:09 about an inmate needs to be prepared
15:11 before he comes to church as to what his role.
15:14 Well, I have seen both sides of that coin.
15:17 I have seen that like you said, they just have all,
15:19 "Fine, if that's the way the church is gonna treat me,
15:20 I don't want to be a part of it."
15:21 I know another brother, also a sex offender
15:23 says you know what?
15:25 "I committed the crime."
15:26 I realize this is the responsible thing
15:28 for a church to do and like you said,
15:30 it's also a protection for them from any false accusations
15:34 and so there's a level of humility
15:36 is gonna come with that and for a sex crime,
15:37 there's an extra level of humility
15:39 but listen, this is where God wants you to grow
15:42 and following those restrictions,
15:45 it's common sense, it's correct
15:48 and it's good for the parents all around,
15:50 it's a good decision for a church to make.
15:52 Yes, and I know...
15:53 And a church should by the way make the,
15:54 have this plan in effect already,
15:56 they should be already discussing that.
15:59 This should be part of understanding
16:02 the rules and regulations that are laid out.
16:05 I know a man who, when he was released for a sex offence,
16:10 he talked with a pastor and he said,
16:12 "I won't even join the church till you let me
16:14 share my testimony from the front,
16:16 'cause I want to know everybody,
16:18 I want everybody to know I'm not trying to hide anything."
16:21 And he specifically asked for a partner
16:24 for his own protection.
16:26 He said, "I don't want to go off to the bathroom
16:28 and then somebody has accused me wrongly."
16:30 Yeah. But I think that's very smart.
16:33 I can also just speak very briefly, my sister's church,
16:38 it was a non denominational church
16:40 and the pastor had the idea
16:43 that if you treated someone as such
16:47 you were denigrating the power of Christ,
16:52 the grace of Christ to transform them,
16:55 so they will come to a sex offender
17:00 when he was released into their congregation,
17:02 he was there for two years and they actually assigned him,
17:06 he volunteered and they accepted
17:08 and assigned him to run the bus to pick up kids
17:14 for their Sunday school or their Vacation Bible school
17:21 and he molested a six-year-old girl.
17:25 And, you know, this is something that
17:27 I don't think that,
17:30 I think that it's dangerous to put someone,
17:34 if you're an alcoholic, you know,
17:36 it's not the best idea for you to go to work at a bar.
17:38 That's right. Right. Yeah.
17:40 You know, you're putting yourself in a place that,
17:43 our natures, you know,
17:45 we've got to surrender to Christ daily
17:48 and that old sin nature can rear its ugly head.
17:51 So if you know where your weakness is,
17:53 then you don't go and take part on in an area
17:55 where you know your weakness has been.
17:56 Exactly, exactly.
17:58 You know, that's just and it's important
18:00 that an inmate, before they come out,
18:03 understand that about themselves.
18:06 Yes, the Lord has forgiven.
18:07 He's gonna give you power to overcome that
18:10 but you don't put yourself, that's presumption
18:12 to put yourself back into a space
18:15 where you have been weak in the past, don't do that,
18:18 instead be like Joseph and Ryan.
18:20 Yes. You see, and so...
18:25 The church is not perfect.
18:27 You have people that are unconverted
18:28 in the church unfortunately.
18:30 And we can only take somebody at face value.
18:33 We don't know people's hearts,
18:35 the Bible says, we judge by appearance,
18:36 we don't know the heart
18:37 and because we don't know the heart
18:39 we've got to judge by the fruit.
18:42 And until you establish a trust relationship, you know,
18:45 you've got to do the best, if you're a pastor,
18:48 you have a huge responsibility to take care of that flock.
18:52 Jesus has some very strong words to say about those
18:54 who herd the little sheep,
18:55 and so it's prudent and it's wise
18:58 and I think it's Christian to put in those guidelines
19:02 and those protections.
19:03 Let's take a different example.
19:05 Let's take someone
19:06 who has either been alcoholic or heavily involved in drugs.
19:11 Okay, and now they're out,
19:12 they have been clean all this time
19:14 while they have been in prison
19:16 because it isn't available,
19:18 I'm not saying it's totally unavailable but in other words,
19:22 they've had a sheltered environment,
19:23 now they're back out and they've got their freedom
19:26 and how are they gonna handle themselves
19:29 in this new situation?
19:30 And they come to your church, seems like,
19:33 if you love that person
19:35 and you want them be a part of your family,
19:37 you'll say now, how can we support this
19:40 young man or this young woman
19:42 in this new second chance of life and freedom
19:47 and help support them
19:49 so that they won't fall back into it again?
19:52 So can you start a support group
19:56 that they can come to
19:58 and be a part of
19:59 and they'd have a wonderful testimony
20:01 and they could actually lead or help lead out in it
20:04 because they've gone through this journey
20:07 that maybe some of us haven't,
20:08 you know, maybe someone needs to say,
20:13 "Hey, I want to take this person on as, sort of,
20:18 they're gonna be my special friend,"
20:20 and when they have an urge or a temptation,
20:24 I want them to be able to call me,
20:26 it doesn't matter what time of day, call me...
20:30 Yeah, accountability partner,
20:33 and they can tell me what they're going through
20:35 and if it means I have to get up in the middle of night
20:38 and drive out and we go spend time together,
20:40 we will do that...
20:42 Amen. So that you won't fall back in.
20:44 So a church needs to look at each case individually and say,
20:48 "Okay, how can we best support this individual
20:53 so that they have a success in their second chance,
20:56 you know, of life?"
20:57 And, you know, that's so critical
20:59 because being clean and sober
21:01 no matter how long you've been clean and sober
21:04 means you have, as Cheri Peter says,
21:07 "It's one half of the first step."
21:10 You know, it's kind of like you've clipped the fruit
21:12 but it doesn't mean you've gotten to the root issues
21:14 so when someone comes out, there may still be the pain,
21:18 that they were trying to numb through drugs
21:21 and they're gonna face other pains
21:23 if they haven't learned the coping skills
21:25 they need to be taken through.
21:28 A good program would be, Cheri Peters has,
21:31 it's Celebrating Life in Recovery,
21:33 a program that we're actually running at our church
21:37 and giving it,
21:40 I don't know if, are we doing in that church at,
21:43 I think it is...
21:44 No, it's at the Maranatha Center,
21:46 it's town in West Frankfort.
21:47 Okay, okay, and it's open to the public,
21:48 so something like that would be an incredible thing.
21:51 What are you gonna say, Wyatt?
21:52 No, I was just agreeing with you that, you know,
21:55 the more that a church can do to prepare,
21:59 I mean, definitely,
22:02 there are tons of programs that the church can do to setup
22:06 to prepare for the inmates to come out,
22:08 that's why it's so important that the inmate get in touch
22:11 with those churches as early as possible,
22:12 so they know their needs,
22:14 so they know what kind of support group
22:15 they're gonna need,
22:16 that they can already develop relationships
22:18 and accountability partners the day they walk out.
22:23 Also the attitude a church will take
22:26 as they receive these persons.
22:30 They are afraid that they're not gonna be accepted,
22:35 they are like the leper coming to Jesus
22:38 and the crowd, you know,
22:39 kicked them away and tried to keep him from coming
22:42 and Jesus was open to the leper coming.
22:46 Well, these are lepers as it were,
22:49 society is lepers
22:51 and so how are you going to treat this person.
22:54 Are they gonna feel welcome?
22:56 Are they gonna feel accepted?
22:58 What can you do to let them know
23:01 that you love them,
23:02 that you care about them, that, you know,
23:05 they're important in the life of the church,
23:08 they're like one of us now.
23:10 The attitude the church take towards that person
23:13 make all the difference in the world.
23:15 Absolutely, and let me just,
23:17 it brings me to my favorite scripture which is first,
23:21 I've always said I've got so many favorites
23:22 but I do believe this has become my favorite,
23:25 it's I Thessalonians 3:12, 13,
23:28 where Paul prays and says,
23:29 "May the Lord cause you
23:32 to abound and increase in love,"
23:36 and then he says, "Why?
23:38 So that your hearts may be,
23:44 He may establish your hearts blameless, in holiness
23:47 before our God and Father
23:49 at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
23:52 So the more we grow in love,
23:53 the more we grow in holiness
23:55 and this is what God would have us to do,
23:57 we cannot shun the one out of fear, you know,
24:00 perfect love drives out fear.
24:02 So we need to reach out,
24:04 it is I think that's the most important thing
24:07 is how they're received,
24:09 if they're made to feel welcome,
24:10 if they're made to feel
24:12 that they're not being judged
24:15 because, you know, this is something you said
24:17 in prison ministry, so it's important that, well,
24:20 it touched your heart is when people came in and said,
24:23 "But for the grace of God, I could be in the same spot."
24:27 But, you know, also whenever they get out,
24:28 I remember my first day
24:30 walking into an Adventist church,
24:32 I felt everybody in the church knew exactly
24:34 what I was in and they didn't,
24:36 but I felt they did know,
24:38 same thing I walk in the Walmart,
24:39 I felt the same thing like everybody knew my,
24:41 where I just spent 14 years.
24:43 Like you had a big F, a felon on your forehead.
24:45 Oh, I felt that it was heavy upon me
24:47 and it wasn't until I just felt that overwhelming love
24:50 that that church hugging you if you will,
24:53 that I was actually able to really get on with life
24:56 and start making it a success.
24:58 But now you may, go ahead, I'm sorry.
24:59 You had a point?
25:00 Shelley, this program will air in prisons.
25:04 Yes. Okay.
25:05 And so I would be speaking to an inmate right now,
25:10 say you do get out
25:11 and you start attending a church
25:13 and you don't feel welcome at that church.
25:18 Not every church is prepared to receive you,
25:21 I want you to understand that,
25:22 just because we're all humans
25:24 and some because of their fear or whatever aren't prepared
25:27 but there will be a church that will receive you...
25:32 And I've counseled with more than one inmate
25:34 where they went to one church and they were loved
25:37 but then they moved to another state
25:39 and went to another church
25:41 and it was a totally different experience,
25:43 it was a sad experience.
25:45 But I tried to help that inmate understand
25:47 that this church is just not ready for you.
25:49 They're God's people, you know,
25:51 but they're just not ready.
25:53 So let's look for a different one
25:56 and God will have a church that is ready for you.
25:58 Amen, and, you know... So understand that.
26:00 I think that that could even be said
26:02 even if you weren't an inmate,
26:04 you may have walked into one church
26:08 and felt a loving atmosphere
26:10 and walked into another church
26:12 and felt like people weren't connecting,
26:14 so it speaks to the health and the condition
26:19 and the maturity of the church body itself.
26:22 So sometimes, that's probably a church that
26:25 has that kind of reception for someone who's been a felon,
26:30 the sad truth is they probably receive others
26:33 like that as well.
26:34 Yeah, Diane and I moved a lot in our life
26:37 and we've been to a lot of different churches
26:39 and we've had the same experience
26:41 and so we decided, okay,
26:43 if this church is cold toward us, hey,
26:47 we're gonna take it by storm...
26:49 We're gonna love this church
26:51 and we're gonna love these people
26:52 and pretty soon guess what?
26:53 They found out that it wasn't bad being friendly
26:55 with the Hamiltons.
26:59 So, Wyatt, did you have a final comment?
27:01 We've just got a minute left.
27:02 You know, I think finding a church
27:05 that is loving is everybody's goal
27:08 but sometimes you have to be that loving person yourself.
27:11 Like I said, a love of humility
27:13 but as they step into that and even work with a church,
27:17 you may be more spiritually mature
27:18 than some people in the church,
27:19 you know, grow where the Lord plants you
27:22 and God has a prison ministry for anybody in some perspect.
27:26 And, Brian, a closing thought.
27:28 Well, I hope that any church family
27:32 that has an opportunity to minister to inmate,
27:36 this is one of the most wonderful experiences
27:37 that you could have.
27:40 And really grow out to church.
27:41 And we have seen that at our own home church
27:43 and it's been quite a joy.
27:45 Thank you, Brian, for joining us today.
27:47 We want you gentlemen to come back
27:48 and give us another...
27:52 To expand on this or expound on this a little bit more.
27:56 Thank you, Wyatt, for being here.
27:57 For those of you at home,
27:59 I know we've been giving you a lot.
28:01 Tune on and that's good.
28:03 I mean, 'cause that's where growth comes in.
28:05 For those of you who are watching us
28:07 from the prison systems,
28:10 we just want you to know we do look upon you
28:12 as our brothers and sisters in Christ.
28:14 We do pray for you on a daily basis
28:17 and we know God has a plan for your life.