Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Wyatt Allen
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000478A
00:01 The Apostle Paul wrote in Ephesians 3:7
00:03 that God had given to him,
00:05 and he called himself the least of all the saints.
00:11 He said a grace was given to him
00:13 that he could preach among others
00:17 the unsearchable riches of Christ Jesus.
00:20 We want to show you how you too can do that,
00:22 please join us today on Issues and Answers.
00:56 Hello, and thank you again for joining us
00:58 on Issues and Answers.
01:00 We are just so glad to have this time to sit down
01:02 and spend together with you
01:05 and today we're gonna be talking about,
01:07 how we as God's people, can reach out to touch,
01:13 we who are the least can reach out to touch
01:15 the least of the least if you will
01:17 and share the unsearchable riches of God's grace
01:21 and His plan for us and joining us again today,
01:24 he was here last week, is our special guest,
01:27 his name is Wyatt Allen.
01:30 And, Wyatt, you are an evangelist
01:33 for Amazing Facts.
01:34 You are the director, a founder of 'In Time Hope Ministries.'
01:40 You are an author of an incredible book called,
01:44 "The Least of the Least, From Crime to Christ."
01:47 Let me see... Wyatt, first welcome.
01:49 Thanks. Thank you for being here.
01:51 Let me see if I can recap your story very briefly
01:54 'cause we talked about...
01:56 Shared a lot of your testimony last time.
01:58 At the age of 15, you are having...
02:04 Had a life of violence modeled to you.
02:08 You became a violent child, involved in drugs.
02:11 You were in a drug rehab,
02:14 attacked one of the counselors there,
02:17 they then put you in,
02:19 I mean, they held you for year till you were 16
02:22 so they could try you as an adult.
02:24 You were sentenced to 20 years in prison,
02:27 of which he served 14.
02:29 But during those 14 years,
02:32 he didn't let any grass grow under his feet.
02:34 First, God got his attention
02:36 and he was actually a Christian,
02:38 became a Christian
02:39 while he was in county jail for a year,
02:42 he studied and when he went off to prison,
02:45 God just put this incredible
02:48 protective barrier around him it seems.
02:50 But you really did a lot of studying
02:53 not only in the Bible
02:55 but you, you made the most of your time,
02:58 you invested your time wisely while you were there.
03:01 When you got out, you married a beautiful woman,
03:03 you have a little daughter nearly two
03:06 and another child on the way
03:08 and you are going from coast to coast
03:11 doing evangelistic series.
03:13 You know, we know it was God's will
03:14 that you are here today
03:16 because in your very busy schedule,
03:18 we had this one little slot we wanted to fill
03:21 and this was the only time that you even...
03:23 Worked out perfect. Had available.
03:25 So we wanna talk today
03:29 a little about prison ministries
03:32 and particularly, what's close to your heart
03:35 and that is working with youth who are in detention centers.
03:40 Where do people begin and can we talk about...
03:44 Can you give us some guidelines because you're looking at it
03:47 from a perspective,
03:48 you know the value of prison ministry.
03:50 But you have a different perspective
03:52 'cause you've been there.
03:53 So maybe, you can give us some guidelines
03:55 as what is effective,
03:57 what you should be aware of, just roll.
04:00 That's a whole lot of stuff there
04:02 but, you know, I'm not some super Christian
04:05 that somehow emerged from the prison system
04:08 just as, you know, ready for society
04:11 and everything was just great
04:12 because I'm just some great guy.
04:14 You know, prison ministries has played a vital role
04:17 and from the time I first got incarcerated
04:19 until the last day
04:21 and actually after I got out and so I wanna give credit
04:25 where credit is due and that as to God's laborers
04:28 who're willing to work among, what I call,
04:30 the least of the least as we talked about last week.
04:32 But, you know, there is just,
04:36 I think a dearth among Christian ministries
04:40 that focuses on those that are incarcerated
04:43 whether it is juveniles or adults
04:45 and so that's...
04:47 A lot of my burden is that.
04:49 Now there are many I'm sure, many viewers
04:53 that really are, that is their passion,
04:56 that is what they and they're just trying
04:57 to let the spirit of enthusiasm
05:01 just catch with their church but it's just hard.
05:03 One brother who's involved in prison ministries
05:05 for probably most of his life,
05:07 he shared with me that every time
05:09 it comes to helping out somebody who is in prison,
05:12 he's the one that's beaten the drum,
05:15 he's the one that's really doing
05:16 the utmost to get it to happen
05:18 because everybody else just drags their feet.
05:20 It's just not a very popular ministry
05:23 and I think frankly the reason is,
05:24 is because when you try hard, there are some that get out
05:29 and they go back to their crimes,
05:31 they go back to drugs, dysfunctional lives
05:33 and it can get very discouraging.
05:35 But I now wanna say something and I know my husband
05:37 wouldn't mind me saying this
05:39 'cause he's actually said it before.
05:41 We did some prison ministry in Indiana
05:44 and he said that, you know, there wasn't anything
05:48 that was even on his radar,
05:50 he wasn't all that excited about doing it
05:52 until he tasted and saw, I mean, once he got there
05:56 and we were at a maximum security prison for men
05:59 and, you know, his heart went out
06:03 to these men and they could...
06:05 They knew the sincerity,
06:07 they knew he was an authentic person
06:10 and you could see some men that looked very hardened,
06:14 very, almost some of them looked a little scary
06:17 but, and forgive me for saying it that way
06:20 but that's just my perspective that...
06:22 I've been there, they can look very scary.
06:25 But these men were melting because they saw before them
06:29 a father's heart, maybe, a father or a grand father
06:32 that they never had and so we found that these men,
06:37 these women, were very much...
06:43 They're just like us and most of them in there,
06:46 no matter how tough they act are scared to be
06:49 where they are
06:51 and it was something that we found that,
06:53 we went there to be a blessing and we came back
06:55 with ten times the blessing that we received,
06:59 it was incredible.
07:01 Well, that's testimony right there,
07:02 that people who don't think
07:04 that prison ministry is for them,
07:05 that they just taste and see
07:08 and you might find that that is a,
07:09 now I will not say blankly that prison ministry
07:10 is for everybody, there are...
07:12 But I will say there is a ministry
07:14 that anybody could really do for those inside.
07:17 So going in and visiting inmates
07:19 or having services for them
07:21 may not be the aspect of prison ministries
07:24 that you can be involved with
07:25 but, you know, if you're scared of the big guys,
07:28 you know, bubbles in prison or whatever,
07:30 you know, the juvenile detention centers
07:32 I think are even less than prison ministries
07:35 aren't really being focused on.
07:37 It is sometimes harder to get into a juvenile center
07:39 because of privacy issues or other concerns
07:43 but even with through literature work,
07:45 sending materials in, writing letters,
07:48 you know, there's a lot of young people
07:49 that are very wavered that need that fatherly
07:52 and sometimes motherly...
07:54 Love and they just don't, they haven't experienced that,
07:56 they haven't seen it and for me,
07:58 when I got locked up, I could honestly say,
08:00 I had never met a Christian that I knew,
08:03 I mean, that I could say,
08:04 that was what a Christian look like.
08:05 Looking back, I can't say that.
08:07 You knew some people who went to church
08:08 but you didn't know anybody that really had
08:10 a personal relationship with the Lord.
08:12 When I went to a Bible study at this one church,
08:14 on a Wednesday night,
08:16 you know, I didn't really like it too much
08:17 but it was just an evening.
08:19 Well, a year later, I'm smoking drugs
08:21 with these same people
08:22 that are continually going to church.
08:24 I didn't think Christians were a lot different than me
08:26 and so to find somebody that had the love of Christ,
08:29 who reflected Jesus, I haven't seen.
08:30 But I'm not saying that they're not out there,
08:32 I just think we have responsibilities at church
08:35 to put ourselves as much as we can in front of people
08:38 so that they can see the love of Jesus.
08:41 Okay, so let's say that there is someone
08:43 who maybe, they're sitting at home,
08:44 they may be my age and thinking that,
08:47 "Well, ministry, you know,
08:48 my best years for ministry has passed."
08:50 But they may be able to write a personal letter.
08:54 What kinds of things...
08:56 How would you guide somebody even if writing...
09:01 What would you present in these letters?
09:06 Where would you draw the line?
09:08 Give us a little guidelines on that.
09:10 Well, there is so much abuse out there of the system that,
09:14 you know, there's people that are just con artists inside
09:16 and I would say that's the minority
09:19 but you just having a wisdom about it,
09:22 you can avoid so many problems
09:25 but the pen pal ministry is huge.
09:28 I can say in my experience while I was locked up,
09:30 if you can find a right person to write to and...
09:34 You can really minister to somebody's life.
09:36 I'm still in touch today with people that,
09:39 they wrote to me in some dark moments of my past,
09:42 that encouraged me and gave me hope
09:45 and, you know, and so I just,
09:48 I really look back and appreciate,
09:51 I still have those letters
09:52 and it's not like they had to go
09:55 and share every personal thing of their life
09:56 and expose themselves the things
09:58 that may make them vulnerable,
10:00 you can share the love of Christ,
10:02 you know, think about the letters
10:03 of the apostle Paul,
10:05 you know, like Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians,
10:09 all these things were written while he was in prison,
10:12 you know, you can write letters.
10:15 We have prison ministry in the reverse, isn't it?
10:16 Yeah, it is.
10:18 But I'm just saying, you know, you can write letters without,
10:21 I mean, I'm talking about the inmates writing to people,
10:23 you can write letters
10:24 and you receive a blessing as well.
10:27 And I just...I know there's a lot of people inside
10:31 that for a lack of an encouraging word
10:34 from somebody who has an another inmate,
10:36 they're despondent...
10:39 But what are some of the guidelines
10:41 for what you should or should not,
10:43 I mean, you don't wanna be preachy or judgmental
10:46 but where do you draw line
10:48 as for as sharing personal details and things.
10:52 Again, I think it just, it takes,
10:53 I pray over every letter, ask out for wisdom
10:56 and I wouldn't share personal stuff.
10:58 Now, you know, a year or two goes by
11:00 and, you know, whatever of writing back and forth,
11:02 you might fill a comfort level there,
11:05 you know, always if you have questions,
11:07 have somebody who's, you know,
11:09 at the church, a leader at the church,
11:10 maybe, read through some letters
11:11 and kind of feel if there's a scam going on here
11:15 but for the most part, if you connect to somebody...
11:18 And listen, if you're a Christian,
11:20 there's a level of conversation that you can hold,
11:23 that if you're not a Christian it's just,
11:24 it's not that hard to detect.
11:27 And there's people inside that are genuinely wanting
11:31 to do better for themselves
11:32 and it's gonna come across so clear.
11:34 Guideline wise,
11:36 yeah, of course, avoid personal stuff,
11:38 personal information as much as possible.
11:40 Especially at first, but you can always share
11:44 the encouraging words from the Bible.
11:47 Scripture promises,
11:49 encourage them to ask questions...
11:52 Okay. But here's the thing.
11:54 Here's the reality, but I may not know
11:56 the specific statistic but like 95% of inmates
12:00 that are locked up are gonna get out of prison.
12:01 Others are lifers but most people
12:03 are going to get out one day
12:05 and they're gonna be your next door neighbor.
12:06 We want them to be as much converted as possible,
12:10 if they're going to be my next door neighbor
12:12 and so, you know, sharing personal things,
12:16 you know, is sometimes helpful but not too personal,
12:19 I think, again, I think there's just a level of wisdom
12:22 that would really help there.
12:23 Okay, so now let's talk about literature
12:25 because I know that especially you said that
12:29 when you were in prison and you got to be a clerk
12:32 for the prison's chaplain
12:34 and for the library that was very special,
12:36 it surprised me when you told me
12:38 you'd read one of my books while you were in the prison.
12:40 Yeah, two of them, I believe.
12:41 Actually wonderful, but that's a precious thing,
12:44 so somebody had to get those books in there.
12:47 Talk about literature. Right.
12:49 And this is for those who maybe
12:51 aren't comfortable writing letters
12:52 or actually going into prisons,
12:53 you could send materials into chapels,
12:56 typically, completely for free
12:58 and they'll actually put them on chapel library shelf.
13:00 If you have a lots of them, they'd put them out on a table
13:02 or they can take them back to their cells.
13:04 You can mail stuff specifically to inmates themselves.
13:09 Different prisons have different regulations about it
13:12 but just give the prisoner a call
13:13 and say, "What's your regulations?"
13:15 And follow those
13:16 and you can get the materials inside.
13:17 I will say that our prison chapel,
13:19 our chaplain was a very open
13:21 to the Seventh-day Adventist church
13:22 because they saw that what the Adventist church
13:24 was doing in prisons was very positive
13:27 and so they were putting tons of our books
13:29 on the shelves and that was simply
13:31 because people had the burden to get those books into prison,
13:34 so they'll send boxes of books
13:36 that will be now available to inmates.
13:40 So definitely literature but you know what
13:42 is even I think more personal than literature
13:46 is Bible Correspondence schools.
13:48 And our church has tons of them through Amazing Facts,
13:51 it is written, Voice of Prophecy,
13:54 so many more and I've done probably
13:57 20 or 30 different courses, some of them several times.
14:01 My certificate file is very thick
14:03 with all the ones I've graduated from
14:05 and, you know,
14:07 but doing it on a personal level,
14:10 sending them in and getting the answers,
14:11 grading them yourselves
14:12 and sending them in, what a way...
14:14 You can answer those letters personally,
14:15 answer Bible questions, a very powerful ministry.
14:18 That's very, very good.
14:20 And you could be in Nevada
14:22 answering letters for a guy in Michigan,
14:24 you know, it's not, you don't have
14:25 to be there at that prison
14:26 to do a Bible school with somebody
14:30 but there's a lots of prison ministries out there.
14:32 Some of them send Bibles into prisons that,
14:35 you know, they just, as they get donations,
14:37 they send more Bibles in to inmates
14:39 who graduate from Bible schools or just who need Bibles.
14:42 That's one thing that 3ABN does.
14:43 It's part of our prison ministries
14:45 that we give the Andrew Study Bible
14:47 to the prisoners who we're corresponding with.
14:50 So there's, you can become a pen pal,
14:56 you can do literature support, what about Christian music?
15:01 Do they allow Christian CDs in or not?
15:06 Yeah, most prisons I think allow CD.
15:07 You can buy CD players off the commissary
15:09 or the canteen accounts
15:11 and but in the prison I am from,
15:14 that's what I am familiar with, in Missouri,
15:16 you actually had to send like either a donation
15:19 and sort of, have like a buying process
15:22 and they got to prove to vendors
15:24 and so somehow it's more difficult to get CDs in
15:26 but, you know, the chapels usually have a stock of CDs
15:30 and so they can again go to the chapel
15:32 and check these things out.
15:35 But there's and not just music CDs
15:37 but also preaching CDs, I listened to an entire...
15:40 That's how I got introduced with Pastor David Asher,
15:42 I watched his entire discovery series
15:44 while I was through,
15:47 somebody sent in a whole DVD set
15:49 and so I watched the whole series.
15:51 Praise the lord, praise the lord.
15:52 Now the thing you can do, of course,
15:54 is support 3ABN
15:55 because we're in so many prison systems.
15:58 Actually, we just...
16:00 I don't know if you saw the Adventist review
16:02 wrote an article but we are on
16:04 and available like Guantanamo Bay.
16:07 I saw that... I saw that picture. I did.
16:08 Yeah, that was really exciting to think about that.
16:11 Now if you have an opportunity
16:18 to participate in prison ministries,
16:22 say, to actually go and visit,
16:24 give us some guidelines of what you think
16:29 makes a good prison ministry program.
16:32 Well, there's a couple of levels even of that
16:34 because you have the personal prison ministry.
16:36 We wanted to get a church service started
16:38 for the Adventist church when we were locked up,
16:41 there's several of us that were involved
16:42 and but, well, it started out with actually one brother,
16:45 John Stone, he was able to come in
16:47 to hold a visit with three of us
16:50 in the visiting room, so it wasn't even in the chapel
16:53 or anything of the prison, he got a permission to...
16:55 And there's a approval process, you actually have to go through
16:58 an application process to become a spiritual advisor
17:01 and so we had Bible study,
17:03 a communion right there in the visiting room
17:07 and it was very loud
17:08 but we had Bible study right there
17:10 and very encouraging but because the interest
17:12 was growing among those on the yard,
17:15 that's why inmates are vital
17:17 to doing prison ministry because you have to...
17:20 They are the ones that have to go out and witness
17:22 and say, "Hey, come out through our services."
17:25 We were actually finally able to hold services in the prison
17:28 and we had several volunteers start to come in,
17:31 so there's the process of the prisoner,
17:33 the volunteers have to go through with the prison
17:36 but even above that, there's a qualification.
17:38 You have to have a sense
17:41 that you're not a better than them.
17:42 And I'll tell you what, almost every prison ministry
17:45 maybe says, a prison minister, man or woman
17:48 that I have met has a sense of, you know what?
17:51 You know, but for the grace of God, there goes I.
17:53 I deserve to be here in as much as you,
17:54 I just didn't get caught.
17:55 I've heard that dozens of times and it's so true,
17:57 when you have that attitude, it's like, okay,
17:59 now I can talk to you, you're not better than me,
18:01 you're not coming down to preach down to me.
18:03 So that attitude is huge, I think for somebody
18:06 who's gonna be working among prisoners.
18:09 But definitely, you know, whether you have a...
18:12 Just all you can do is sing,
18:14 maybe you don't know your Bible that well
18:15 but you can sing, that's a huge ministry.
18:18 You can play the piano for the service
18:20 or, you know, if you're not a good preacher,
18:24 sit down and have a Bible study,
18:25 go through for the Sabbath school lesson
18:26 once a week with these guys.
18:28 Have a prayer ministry, a one on one counseling,
18:31 there's just endless, the opportunities
18:34 and things that people can do to minister to people inside.
18:36 And, you know, our church has a group
18:38 that goes out to the local jails,
18:41 now that's... I think that's more challenging
18:43 than prison ministry because it's a revolving door,
18:46 they're just, it's a holding, almost like a holding cell,
18:49 they're in, they're out...
18:50 But you know what though?
18:52 It's the more promising one because a lot of people
18:53 who're in jail, that's almost the first step
18:56 before the prison system.
18:57 And you know what that means?
18:59 That means that if you can get them there
19:01 and help them to see their need for Christ
19:03 and depend on Him and get a love
19:05 for His Word then, you know what?
19:07 They're not gonna end up in prison
19:09 'cause they're gonna have that
19:10 personal reaffirmation right there.
19:12 So jail ministry is huge.
19:14 That's why my emphasis on juvenile ministries
19:17 is even more because if you can get
19:19 a 13, 14, 15-year-old
19:22 to fall in love with Jesus,
19:23 get involved in ministry then you know what?
19:26 You could just save a whole career criminal
19:28 from a life of mistakes.
19:30 So what are some of the things
19:33 that you should try to educate yourself on...
19:37 What topics for example?
19:39 I'm thinking of drug addiction, if it would be helpful
19:42 if you knew a little something about the mind of a drug addict
19:46 or the problems that they're are facing.
19:49 What are some things if... let's say that you do want
19:51 to start a prison ministry or a jail ministry,
19:56 what kinds of things, is it good to go in there armed
19:59 and equipped to talk about abuse, addiction?
20:03 Well, I mean, I think people relate
20:06 more to personal experiences
20:07 so you don't have to have some degree
20:10 or some certification and something that just say,
20:11 "Hey, I'm there for you. I wanna hear you.
20:14 I wanna share with you. I love you."
20:16 I think it doesn't take any qualifications to do that.
20:18 Okay. Good.
20:19 Now if you have them, what an extra blessing.
20:22 You can, you know, you could hold classes
20:24 and not to mean spiritual classes,
20:26 a friend of mine, his wife goes into a women's prison
20:29 and she does financial classes.
20:31 And, of course, she drops, you know,
20:33 the spiritual message to the whole thing
20:35 but it's not specifically a spiritual class
20:39 but it is still a ministry
20:41 and it's a door, a way to get in
20:42 and they don't have an Adventist service
20:44 in that prison but it's a way to get those
20:46 and she get a lots of people to sign up
20:47 for the Bible schools
20:49 but she's a minister in that prison.
20:51 What is the literacy rate in prison?
20:55 Do you find many people who are illiterate?
20:57 Very, I mean, if you don't have a job
20:59 you gotta be going to school and the schools,
21:02 I mean, are packed, I mean, you have,
21:05 you know, when I was in,
21:06 you had three different sessions
21:08 of the school that you had to just,
21:11 it was just so many people that,
21:13 and that's not to say they're all are illiterate,
21:14 just some of them don't have their GED.
21:16 Believe me, I have met some of the most genius people
21:18 in the world locked up.
21:20 And I'm speaking specifically to reading skills
21:23 'cause I heard, I read something somewhere
21:25 where it was talking about how many illiterate people
21:28 there are in the United States.
21:29 It's true. It shocked me.
21:31 You know, we just don't think that,
21:33 we assume that people are coming up
21:35 through the school system
21:36 and that they're learning to read.
21:38 Now some people maybe, have dyslexia,
21:41 some people may just have been promoted from grade to grade
21:47 but it's shocking to me that there are people
21:50 who are maybe 16, 17 or beyond
21:53 and they can read at maybe a second grade level.
21:55 Yeah. That's true.
21:57 And it is a lot in prison but I think
21:59 that's not to be discouraged, I mean, if you can't read,
22:01 you can always listen and...
22:02 No, my point was would it be good to like maybe do...
22:05 I'm trying to think of classes. Oh, I see what you're saying.
22:08 Yeah, going in, do a reading class or something.
22:10 I haven't seen anything like that in the past,
22:13 I'm sure they're out there and I know...
22:19 Being creative like that actually in just having,
22:21 finding a need,
22:23 filling that need is a way to get in there,
22:24 you're getting around these folks
22:26 and you're able to help,
22:27 you're able to minister to them.
22:29 I think it doesn't take anybody special,
22:33 I mean, everybody's special
22:35 but, I mean, you don't have to have
22:36 some special skill, you could come in...
22:37 Or a degree.
22:39 You know, and I always encourage
22:40 prison ministry teams.
22:42 I think, you know, one volunteer is great
22:44 if you're really good at it
22:45 but coming in as a team, two or three or four people,
22:49 one maybe, possibly be the teacher,
22:50 the other people are just sometimes there
22:52 to sit there, smile and just show
22:54 that they love these people, that says so much.
22:58 But, yeah, you can start all kinds of classes
23:01 in the jails, in the prisons.
23:04 There's just no limit really,
23:06 but you have to be willing to do it and that's...
23:08 I think people are intimidated by the idea,
23:10 but they shouldn't be,
23:11 it's because the ministry's like that
23:13 and I can tell lots of a personal experiences
23:15 that I am here today where I'm at.
23:18 People invested their time in me,
23:20 they came from the outside, they loved me for who I was
23:23 and who I could be and so I know that
23:26 there's people out there that could be exactly the same.
23:29 And God honored.
23:30 Obviously, He honored
23:31 their investment of time in you.
23:34 You know what I like to say?
23:35 I say, you know, most criminals
23:38 can trace their first murderous act to that of killing time
23:41 and I believe that if you can take...
23:45 Oh, repeat that because that went by too fast
23:47 for somebody at home's going, "What did he just say?"
23:50 Something like, you know, criminals
23:52 can trace their first murderous act
23:54 to that of killing time.
23:57 Basically, wasting the good time
23:58 that God has given us.
24:00 Time is such a gift and if you look at the time,
24:02 you'll incarcerate it as a gift to be used
24:05 to be better trained for the ministry,
24:07 to be better trained to be useful in God's service,
24:10 then there's no limit to what God can do with you.
24:13 But if you take that time and you waste it,
24:16 you know, it's...
24:17 You're gonna get out either a worst person
24:20 or just the same as you did when you got locked up.
24:22 Take that time and prove it
24:24 and now what prison ministry's can come in
24:25 is giving the inmates something to do in that time,
24:29 that's the Bible school, that's the classes,
24:31 that's the pen pals, that's the...
24:35 And I have one friend,
24:36 he runs a ministry called, Conviction Ministries.
24:38 He wants to actually develop a curriculum like AFCO
24:41 for those inside.
24:43 Praise the Lord.
24:44 Where he actually trains up workers,
24:46 so that when they get out, they'll not just try and look
24:48 for a job to get back in the field,
24:49 they're ready to go in ministry.
24:52 And I tell you that speaks hope and promise
24:54 and I believe there's people inside just like me,
24:56 just like him, just like many others
24:58 that are willing to do
25:00 what it takes to serve God in any capacity.
25:03 You know, it's interesting.
25:04 We just came full circle,
25:06 we're talking about how to minister to prisoners
25:09 and now we're talking about prisoners
25:11 being the missionaries within the system.
25:15 We actually have a friend whose child,
25:20 through a number of circumstances committed
25:22 a heinous act, an act of murder
25:25 and this is a strong Christian couple
25:27 and they were quite taken aback.
25:29 You can always tell if someone's faith is real
25:34 when they're in crisis and we saw this couple,
25:38 they didn't try to cover it up,
25:39 they admitted it freely, they mourned
25:42 but they had faith and it's interesting
25:45 because the way they look at it,
25:46 he's in for life, no possibility of parole
25:50 but the way they look at it and how they handle it
25:53 and cope with it is that they see their son
25:57 as a missionary because once he came...
26:00 Once he was in there, he really didn't,
26:03 after he was convicted, he gave his heart to the Lord.
26:08 And now they've been ministering to him in prison
26:11 and now he's ministering to so many others,
26:13 so that's how they deal with this as he's a missionary.
26:17 You know, there are so many that are really jaded,
26:20 they believe that, you know, this is all jail house religion
26:23 and there are, there's much jail house religion going on
26:26 where people they have a conversion
26:28 and hope of getting some kind of reward
26:31 or maybe not being picked on by other inmates
26:33 or whatever the reason is
26:34 but there are genuine conversions of people
26:36 who were incarcerated and we cannot just say,
26:39 "Well, they're in prison.
26:41 They became converted for whatever reason."
26:43 Believe them, give them hope, give them encouragement
26:46 and I hope people never give up on those.
26:49 People with life sentences, they need the most hope.
26:54 And, you know, they can be set free.
26:56 We've made a number of lifers...
26:59 Just in a short time and there's...
27:01 Even though I'm behind bars,
27:03 you know, whom Christ has set free is free indeed,
27:06 so they have been set free and sometimes they're more free
27:09 than people on the outside.
27:11 That's right. Right.
27:12 So it's all a matter of relationship with the Lord.
27:17 Our time is just almost gone.
27:20 I want to mention your book one more time.
27:24 Wyatt didn't know I was even, I had to tell him to go out
27:27 to his car and bring in a book because he didn't know
27:29 we were gonna talk about this book.
27:31 I read his book,
27:32 I think this is a wonderful read for all of us.
27:35 It's a good study, it's a good way,
27:37 it's great evangelistic tool because it introduces
27:40 all of our doctrines but in a story form
27:44 as you were discovering these,
27:46 how God summon at these in his heart.
27:48 It's called "The Least of the Least"
27:50 and it's by Remnant Publications,
27:53 so I'm sure you can go to...
27:55 Is this on Amazon as well?
27:57 It's on Amazon, Remnant Publications
27:58 is a good place to go and get it.
27:59 Yes, wonderful.
28:01 Well, we're so grateful that,
28:02 Wyatt, you have joined us again today
28:04 and we want you to come back next week.
28:06 I just want to end with this.
28:08 Paul says he's talking about becoming a minister
28:11 by the gift of grace that God gave him.
28:14 He said," To me, who am the least
28:17 of the least of all the saints, this grace was given
28:20 that I should preach among prisoners
28:23 the unsearchable riches of Christ."
28:26 Let that be your testimony too.