Issues and Answers

The Roots of Forgiveness

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Paul Coneff


Series Code: IAA

Program Code: IAA000471A

00:01 Let me ask you a question.
00:02 Have you ever confessed a sin
00:04 and know that in your mind God has forgiven you,
00:07 and yet you find that you're still swallowed up in sorrow,
00:11 that is Satan's strategy
00:13 and today we want you to join us,
00:16 so that you will learn how to overcome
00:19 that strategy on Issues and Answers,
00:22 that's our discussion today.
00:55 Hello, I'm Shelly Quinn,
00:56 and we are so thankful that you're joining us today
00:59 on Issues and Answers.
01:00 You're going to be thankful as well
01:02 because we'll be discussing something
01:04 that is rather common to our human condition.
01:08 And that is the fact that
01:09 we can confess our sins and believe
01:14 we've received forgiveness from God,
01:16 and yet in our belief systems,
01:20 Satan is trying to tell us
01:22 we are something that really we no longer are.
01:26 So we don't get the freedom from the guilt
01:30 and the shame of the past.
01:32 Well, help me introduce
01:34 or welcome that is our special guest Paul Coneff.
01:37 And Paul is an author, he is a pastor.
01:41 And, Paul, you are the director
01:43 of Straight 2 the Heart Ministries.
01:45 Tell us little about your ministry?
01:47 Well, our ministry comes out of working with broken people
01:50 and helping them get healing and freedom in Christ.
01:53 And so the two main themes are
01:54 that Christ suffering is part of his gospel,
01:57 because He said I came to suffer,
01:59 die and rise again over and over again.
02:01 So we break that suffering down into how He was alone,
02:04 abandoned, physically, verbally, mentally abused,
02:07 experienced racism, pull politics,
02:10 He's tempted in numbness pain
02:11 and cried out why have you forsaken me.
02:14 So we talk about how His suffering
02:17 with a fulfillment of prophecy to identify with us.
02:20 He went through negative experiences
02:21 because we do
02:23 and then that's the root of our healing
02:24 to really identify with Him,
02:26 to realize we're not alone, He understands.
02:28 The other main thing is that
02:30 Satan's called the father of lies,
02:31 not the father of sin.
02:33 So we want to ask
02:34 what are those negative thoughts or lies
02:36 we get about ourselves
02:37 when we go through these negative experiences
02:40 to keep us stuck in these patterns in our lives.
02:42 Amen.
02:43 So now, if somebody was to go to your website and that is,
02:49 that's straight and then the number two.
02:51 Yes.
02:52 Straight and then a numeral two,
02:54 Straight 2 the Heart Ministries...
03:00 What would they find on your website?
03:03 They would find testimonies of people
03:04 that have got healing in freedom.
03:06 They would find a calendar for training events
03:08 and then resources that they can purchase.
03:10 All right.
03:12 Now, if however they want to purchase your book and this...
03:16 The Hidden Half of the Gospel is a book
03:18 that Paul wrote and essentially it's this.
03:21 The gospel you and I most frequently think of is
03:24 Christ died for our sins, He redeemed us,
03:27 halleluiah, by grace we are saved.
03:30 But the Hidden Half of the Gospel is what
03:33 Christ kept trying to share with His disciples
03:36 and they couldn't quite understand it
03:38 that He came to be our suffering Messiah.
03:42 He came to experience everything
03:46 that we do in our humanity,
03:48 yet to overcome it, be without sin,
03:51 He was tempted in every way but yet was without sin.
03:55 And I can highly recommend this book,
03:57 the Hidden Half of the Gospel and that is at hiddenhalf...
04:02 www. You don't have to have the W's
04:04 but Hidden Half, H-I-D-D-E-N,
04:10 All right, now, let's get into Sheri's story,
04:15 because Sheri is someone that
04:18 you've ministered with who has found herself
04:24 as we talked about in the T's swallowed in sorrow.
04:29 When she first came to me,
04:31 she was living in the community
04:33 and I knew her and some of her friends,
04:34 and she came in one day and said
04:36 I'm just overwhelmed by shame.
04:38 And I said, okay, well,
04:39 what's causing you shame?
04:41 She said, well, I know, but I can't tell you.
04:42 It's too overwhelming.
04:44 She felt too bad about it.
04:45 So I had a choice,
04:46 I could try and get to tell me
04:48 what she said she didn't want to tell me.
04:50 But I felt like I'd rather connect her to Jesus story
04:53 and so she's struggling to go where God wants her to go.
04:55 She knows what the core issue is.
04:57 So I said what would you...
04:59 Would you be willing to identify with Christ.
05:01 Struggling to surrender His will to His father in a garden
05:04 to go where God was calling Him to go.
05:07 Or we can close and you can leave.
05:09 But if we do that,
05:10 then you carry the shame with you,
05:11 so I gave her a choice.
05:13 She chose to identify with Christ
05:14 so we said a prayer,
05:15 thank you Father that You had Jesus fulfill prophecy.
05:19 Struggling to surrender his will to your will to go
05:21 where you were calling him to go.
05:23 So you could take my struggle to go to place of shame
05:26 and to his death
05:28 and then through his resurrection power,
05:29 I'm receiving Jesus spirit to surrender,
05:32 where you are making me willing to be willing to go there.
05:35 And so then she gave me part of the story,
05:37 her daughter had a miscarriage.
05:39 But if she had a miscarriage, should she be having shame,
05:41 or grief and loss?
05:43 Grief and loss.
05:44 So we know there is something more to the story,
05:46 but she couldn't tell me.
05:48 So I said the same thing,
05:49 we can either end the session
05:51 our time to get it but that means
05:53 you live with the shame
05:54 or we identify with Christ again.
05:55 So we pray that prayer again
05:58 and after two or three prayer times
05:59 the whole story came out.
06:01 When her daughter had the miscarriage
06:02 it triggered something that happened four years ago.
06:05 She had an abortion 40 years ago,
06:07 and was so overwhelmed
06:09 by when her daughter had a miscarriage
06:11 believing that her miscarriage,
06:14 her abortion had caused her daughter's miscarriage.
06:17 In other words she knew...
06:21 And at some level she realized
06:24 or could acknowledge that God had forgiven her sin
06:27 but at another level somehow
06:29 she felt like maybe God was paying back,
06:33 because she had had the abortion that
06:35 it was like in his will that
06:38 the daughter should lose a child.
06:40 Yeah, a lot of times Christians have a phrase
06:42 that I hear a lot when I am doing trainings,
06:44 I just need to forgive myself.
06:46 The problem is there is nothing in Genesis from Revelation
06:50 where anybody ever says that.
06:51 Moses was a murderer, he didn't say forgave himself.
06:53 David had Uriah murdered,
06:55 he didn't say I forgive myself for having Uriah murdered,
06:57 they receive forgiveness from God.
06:59 And so what I find Sheri is like many Christians
07:01 who confessed their sinful behavior,
07:03 they're sincerely wrong, they don't even return to it.
07:06 But they don't realize that Satan is a father of lies,
07:08 so he doesn't put lies in me just before I sin,
07:11 but after my sin.
07:12 So as we pray to God to reveal
07:14 what was holding the shame in place,
07:16 'cause shame is a feeling, it's a strong feeling,
07:18 it's an overwhelming feeling, it's a negative feeling.
07:20 But it's a feeling, it's fruit not root.
07:23 So we wanted to know who God...
07:24 Explain, don't just pass by that.
07:26 Explain fruit root?
07:29 If I have a negative thought,
07:32 and that's my root system
07:33 where that negative thought create negative
07:35 feelings and behaviors
07:36 or positive feelings and behaviors?
07:38 Negative feelings and behaviors.
07:39 So she confessed her behavior of being lonely,
07:42 ending up in sex outside of marriage,
07:44 being a scared teenager and having an abortion.
07:46 We're not justifying it.
07:48 Okay, so the root is the unbiblical
07:52 negative thought...
07:55 The belief system that doesn't line up with the Bible.
07:58 That's the root,
07:59 the behavior of is the fruit of the root.
08:04 That's where we got the fruit and the root.
08:05 Yes.
08:07 And that's Old Testament
08:08 where it pictures New Testament.
08:10 And so, we're not ignoring the fruit,
08:12 but she confessed her behavior of the abortion,
08:14 she was truly sorry.
08:16 It sits there in the background like on a burner
08:19 carrying low level of guilt and shame.
08:21 But then her daughter has a miscarriage
08:22 and that belief system,
08:24 it's my fault, I'm a murderer,
08:27 was never brought to the cross.
08:29 So many times we confess her behaviors
08:32 but we carry the guilt and shame
08:34 not because we want to
08:35 but because we have a negative belief
08:37 about ourselves from Satan,
08:38 the father of lies.
08:40 Wow, I'm trying to catch this so,
08:41 so essentially you're saying it's not...
08:45 When we say not biblical to say I'm gonna forgive my...
08:47 I need to forgive myself.
08:49 It's not in the Bible is what you're saying.
08:50 It's not in the Bible...
08:52 So rather than focusing on
08:53 what you need to forgive yourself for this,
08:55 you know, accept God's forgiveness
08:57 and you forgive yourself.
08:58 What you need to do is be able to surrender
09:01 those negative thoughts to God
09:07 and let Him go through...
09:09 So it's just basically
09:10 we haven't really confessed in God
09:13 and everything out, did I say right?
09:15 Yes and it's not that she is not insincere.
09:17 She sincerely...
09:19 she hasn't any more abortions, it's not that she sincere...
09:21 And God's forgiven her. And God's forgiven her.
09:23 It's just that...
09:24 Okay.
09:26 Even in 1 John it says,
09:27 even if our own heart condemns us,
09:28 God's greater than our hearts.
09:30 But why should I have her live in condemnation
09:33 when I can have ever live in freedom.
09:35 So what we want to do is say, okay God,
09:37 what did she learned to believe about herself
09:39 because of that abortion
09:40 that's causing this intent shame.
09:42 And a belief system she had, everybody is different
09:44 but her belief system is it's my fault, I'm a murderer.
09:48 And she said to me,
09:50 I know in my head that God is not like that.
09:52 He wouldn't punish my daughter for my decision 40 years ago.
09:57 So up here, from the head up,
09:59 straight A in a theological exam,
10:01 but she said in my heart,
10:04 and I hope our viewers are getting this,
10:06 in my heart that's where I believe
10:08 that I'm a murderer and it's my fault
10:10 that I caused my daughter's miscarriage.
10:12 That God's making her pay,
10:14 her daughter pay for what she did.
10:16 So she knows intellectually, mentally, thou God is like,
10:20 but her heart has this belief system,
10:22 and so what we're able to do is say,
10:23 where was Jesus tempted to believe,
10:26 He wasn't accepted with God.
10:29 So we always move into Jesus story.
10:31 And Jesus said in the cross, Father forgive them,
10:34 I either sin for they know not what they do.
10:38 So Jesus forgiveness not only covers what she did
10:41 but all the unknown,
10:42 unintended consequences from it.
10:44 Now, does that minimize sin
10:46 or is that maximize God's grace?
10:47 It maximizes God's grace.
10:49 The isn't cheap grace,
10:50 was it easy for her to face
10:53 not only the abortion but that overwhelming shame
10:56 and that belief system, I'm a murderer,
10:58 I've caused my daughter to have a miscarriage.
11:00 Was that easy? No.
11:01 No, it wasn't but by faith...
11:03 He's confessing it obviously if it took her that long to,
11:05 if she was so overwhelmed
11:07 she couldn't even articulate it.
11:09 She couldn't voice it.
11:10 It wasn't easy. It wasn't easy at all.
11:12 But I had the privilege of walking her into Jesus story,
11:15 that Jesus took her sin to death on the cross.
11:17 She already dealt with that,
11:18 but also the negative belief systems
11:21 and negative identity creating the shame.
11:23 So Jesus was a sin offering, a guilt offering.
11:26 So did He take all of her guilt
11:27 and all of her shame into death on the cross 2000 years ago?
11:30 Yes.
11:32 So we prayed and brought in her belief system about herself,
11:36 it's my fault, I'm a murderer
11:38 so we brought the belief system
11:39 into her behavior with the feeling,
11:42 so we got the belief system, we got the negative thoughts,
11:46 we got the negative feelings
11:47 connected to that negative behavior.
11:49 And as we did and we kept praying that way,
11:51 she was able to get freedom from that
11:53 and six months later
11:55 she was walking in her neighborhood,
11:56 she saw one of my church members
11:57 and she said, hey, tell Paul,
11:59 I'm still doing well.
12:00 And before I left that church,
12:02 she came by when I was leaving to say goodbye,
12:03 and I said,
12:05 you have a beautiful story of God's grace.
12:08 Ministering to you,
12:09 with a sin you confess
12:11 but the belief system was still there
12:12 and you didn't even fully realize it.
12:15 Could I have permission to share that
12:16 and she gave me permission to share,
12:17 so wherever I go in the world I tell her story
12:19 about how God forgave her of what she did
12:21 and did not know
12:23 and Jesus took into His death
12:25 all the negative thoughts leading up to the abortion.
12:27 All the loneliness and looking for love outside a marriage.
12:31 Everything connected to abortion
12:32 and those negative thoughts of belief system about herself
12:36 because of the decision she made.
12:38 Now let me ask you a question.
12:42 How we discussed last time that you had when we...
12:48 With this last week
12:50 that you grew up with a lot of dysfunction,
12:53 some true negative beliefs about yourself.
12:56 You acted out the fruit of your negative beliefs
12:59 you got involved in quite a few different things...
13:03 Alcohol and drugs or in self pity.
13:05 So, okay.
13:08 We also discussed that you have been a pastor
13:12 or you became a pastor
13:13 and you felt like your past was in the past,
13:16 you didn't want to deal with it.
13:18 Explain again because I know we didn't...
13:22 We touched on this last time
13:23 but I think it's important the T,
13:27 the model T.
13:28 Not an old car model T,
13:30 but the T model that you use which is a cross,
13:34 it's a model of a cross
13:36 and how you write on the left
13:39 and what you write on the right side of that cross
13:42 and why it is important that people see this?
13:46 So what I do is when people come in like Sheri.
13:49 I have a cross on my white board
13:51 and on left side I write down what they're bringing in,
13:54 for her it was shame.
13:55 As we pray and God unfolded that it was the abortion
13:58 and then the belief I'm a murderer,
14:00 it's my fault.
14:01 So that's on the left side which she is dealing with.
14:04 On the right hand I will start writing down Jesus' journey
14:07 from Gethsemane to Calvary.
14:08 He is alone, He is abandoned,
14:11 He is betrayed.
14:12 When He is alone,
14:13 is He tempted to look for love in a wrong places?
14:15 Sure, He's tempted like us in all points,
14:17 He's betrayed.
14:18 Is He tempted to trust in his own strength
14:19 and protect himself?
14:21 Sure, He strip naked,
14:22 He's physically, verbally, mentally abused.
14:25 On the cross He's tempted with the wine vinegar
14:27 mix to numb His pain.
14:28 We're all tempted to numb our pain.
14:30 Does He know what it's like to suffer being tempted
14:33 to numb His pain?
14:34 He didn't, He trusted in His father
14:36 but does He know like scripture says
14:38 that He actually suffered with that temptation,
14:40 it was actually attractive to human nature.
14:43 And then He cries out, "Why you've forsaken Me,''
14:46 where He is not sure He is being tempted
14:48 to believe His Father has not accepted Him
14:51 that He has rejected Him forever.
14:53 So there is other places where He suffered
14:55 so I connect Sheri's story with Jesus' story,
14:58 and He happened to become the sin bearer
15:00 to guilt offering,
15:01 and He died not only for her sinful behavior
15:04 but her sinful nature.
15:06 He who knew no sin was actually made to be sin.
15:10 So how far did He go to identify with her?
15:12 He was made to be everything in her life, the loneliness,
15:15 to looking for love outside of marriage,
15:17 to getting pregnant and having the abortion.
15:20 We're not justifying it but we're saying she's scared,
15:22 she doesn't know what to do,
15:23 Jesus took everything connected to her story
15:26 to death on the cross
15:27 and the intense overwhelming shame
15:30 that were sitting there
15:32 in the background for 40 years,
15:33 and then her daughter has a miscarriage,
15:36 and the devil goes boom, this is who you are.
15:38 And she doesn't know
15:40 it's the devil talking to her in first person language,
15:42 and then here is the problem
15:43 and she doesn't get healing and freedom,
15:45 can she be there for her daughter.
15:47 She looks at her daughter, she goes I did this,
15:49 she can't be there,
15:50 so what's the devil gonna say to her daughter?
15:52 Where is my mom,
15:53 how come my mom's not with me in my time of grief and loss?
15:55 So the devil is getting this domino effect...
15:58 He always does, doesn't he?
16:00 But the good news is
16:02 when she gets healing and freedom,
16:03 God gets the domino effect, she can share her story,
16:06 she can be present with her daughter in the grief and loss
16:09 because she has got healing and freedom.
16:11 Amen. Amen.
16:12 The behavior was confessed and forgiven 2000 years ago,
16:15 I mean, 40 years ago.
16:17 Jesus took care of that 2000 years ago.
16:20 But now we're dealing with that belief system,
16:22 that negative thought about herself
16:24 that's gotten triggered,
16:25 it was there in the background.
16:27 The miscarriage happened the trigger,
16:29 something else could have triggered
16:30 but that's what triggered,
16:31 and I was able to watch God
16:33 bring this precious daughter of his,
16:35 not only into forgiveness
16:37 but forgiveness in freedom
16:38 where she is receiving the fullness of forgiveness
16:40 and she is using her testimony for God's glory.
16:43 When did you begin this ministry?
16:44 What year?
16:47 I started ministry in 1987,
16:50 and I started dealing with people seeing teenagers,
16:53 adult broken in churches,
16:55 and then I went to another church
16:56 and still more brokenness,
16:57 and so I started looking at brokenness,
16:59 and how does God want to minister to it in '87, '88.
17:03 But it was in 1990 that I said God,
17:06 I know your cross has power in Christ to forgive my sins.
17:12 And I know healing is possible.
17:16 How does the cross answered the brokenness in our life
17:19 and the suffering
17:20 and that's when I started writing
17:21 the cross on that board,
17:23 that model T you've talked about,
17:25 that here is this T in my white board
17:27 with their story on one side
17:28 and Jesus' story on the other.
17:30 And as that happened people like Sheri,
17:33 I started noticing that we're getting,
17:34 they were sharing more,
17:35 they were sharing at a deeper level,
17:37 and we were praying more
17:39 and they were getting deeper healing
17:40 and moving into ministry.
17:41 So it was kind of slowly catching on to me
17:43 that there is something in Christ suffering
17:46 and being alone,
17:47 abandoned and betrayed, abused,
17:49 tempted to numb His pain and saying,
17:51 why have You forsaken Me.
17:52 There was something that was more powerful than
17:54 what I could offer them.
17:55 Human counseling can't set her free.
17:58 It could help, it can listen
18:00 but Jesus in His suffering,
18:02 death and resurrection, being a sin bearer,
18:04 the guilt bearer can take everything
18:06 connected to her story.
18:08 All of her negative thoughts
18:09 and that negative identity about herself to the cross
18:11 and then through His resurrection power,
18:14 she gets freedom.
18:15 She moves into ministry
18:17 and her story gives hope to other people.
18:18 You know this is when they are really appreciates
18:21 and you broke that you make it very clear,
18:23 if you ever have to use,
18:25 you are a licensed family counselor
18:28 but you make it very clear,
18:29 if you ever have to draw on your counseling training
18:34 then you've missed the boat that this is all about prayer,
18:36 it's all about God.
18:39 It's really fascinating
18:40 because when I read this I'm thinking
18:43 of course I know this, I mean, I was just,
18:45 it's interesting when your book came into my life,
18:48 I've been writing sermon on Gethsemane
18:51 so all of these things were just fresh on my mind.
18:54 I mean, it was just
18:55 the going through this whole struggle of Christ
19:00 and how He was...
19:02 I mean Hebrews 2:17, 18,
19:03 it's really coming alive to me that
19:05 you know, yes,
19:07 He was made like us in everyway He does understand.
19:09 But I still didn't see it as part of the gospel
19:12 till I read your book.
19:13 And so, you know, there is sometimes,
19:17 I think I actually asked myself
19:19 why did He have to suffer like this,
19:21 I mean, the cross was bad enough
19:24 but to receive the beating
19:27 that He received to where His muscles were torn
19:30 and He lost so much blood before He went to the cross.
19:33 We think of His blood loss at the cross
19:37 but the Bible says
19:38 in both Isaiah and Peter wrote that by his stripes,
19:44 we will be healed by his stripes,
19:46 we are healed.
19:48 With the stripes we're received as His child.
19:50 So it's a fascinating your book
19:54 what I appreciate about it is...
19:58 It's so simple because it's in story format
20:01 that a sixth grader could sit down and read it
20:03 and yet the theology is so deep,
20:05 if you really want to get off into it,
20:07 it's incredible.
20:08 So did God as you were seeing this,
20:13 did God sit you down first
20:15 and work through your issues from the past,
20:18 did you fill resistant to it,
20:20 do you have people, you've seen so many,
20:23 you've an incredible testimony,
20:25 so lot of people that are moving into ministry,
20:28 but what kind of resistance
20:31 did you have to this yourself in the beginning.
20:34 So God started talking to me
20:36 and said I want to deal with some of the stuff in your past.
20:38 And I said no,
20:39 I got my pastoral ministry major,
20:40 I'm in full pastoral ministry, it's in the past.
20:43 God said no.
20:44 He disagreed with me,
20:46 so we had an arm wrestling match and He won.
20:47 And so now, you know,
20:51 so I'm sharing this out of grown,
20:52 my own growth experience and I find it,
20:55 if I teach what I've been living,
20:57 what I'm learning,
20:58 it makes more of an impact than
20:59 if I'm just teaching from my head,
21:01 but God wanted me to deal
21:02 with some of the stuff from my past
21:03 go to the deeper levels of forgiveness
21:06 and freedom in dealing with some of the negative thoughts
21:08 I had so that I'm like 2 Corinthians says
21:11 we comfort others with the comfort we received.
21:13 But is this where you learned, I mean,
21:16 how did God show you to connect Christ story.
21:19 Is that when He was dealing with you,
21:21 is this when you kind of were going
21:22 through the last hours of Christ life and saying,
21:26 hey, this really makes a difference
21:28 to understand that He identified with me this way.
21:30 Well, I started ministering in '87,
21:32 started working in '88, started working with people,
21:34 saw lot of brokenness and then in 1999
21:36 I was seeing God do some more,
21:38 but I was saying okay,
21:40 another cross deals with forgiveness.
21:42 And I know there is some healing,
21:44 but how do we really,
21:45 how does the cross address brokenness in a way
21:47 we get healing and freedom.
21:48 And that's where I started
21:49 drawing the cross on the white board
21:51 where I put their story of anger pain,
21:53 Sheri's it would be abortion, loneliness
21:57 and you know it's my fault, I'm a murderer.
21:59 So we put her story on the left hand side,
22:01 on the right hand side we're saying Jesus was alone,
22:03 abandoned, betrayed, abused, tempted to numb His pain,
22:07 took all of her sin in suffering
22:08 to death on the cross,
22:10 cried out why have You forsaken Me.
22:11 So he took everything in her story into His death.
22:14 So that's when I started doing probably in 1990
22:17 but what I noticed was as I shared their story
22:19 and connected with Jesus' story
22:21 and it happened overtime,
22:22 it wasn't like some big uh-huh moment.
22:24 But as it happened,
22:26 I found people shared it at a deeper level,
22:27 so they were sharing more,
22:29 we were praying more and they were getting more
22:30 healing and freedom.
22:32 Amen.
22:33 You know, I think that at least for me
22:38 something that I have felt is that I'm almost...
22:43 I don't want,
22:44 I was ashamed as a Christian to talk about my past.
22:48 You know, Isaiah says God said in Isaiah, you know,
22:52 forget the past, don't dwell on the past,
22:54 I'm doing a new thing in you,
22:55 it was spring forth, suddenly we not perceive it.
22:59 Paul talks about not, you know, looking ahead,
23:02 not behind for getting what is behind
23:04 and pressing on toward the goal
23:06 for which he is called heaven work in Christ Jesus.
23:09 So I think that
23:13 it was not just that I was afraid of the pain
23:16 but I was ashamed to say that there was anything in the past
23:18 that still bothered me,
23:20 and then when I went into full time ministry,
23:23 it was interesting because the Lord told me,
23:26 I mean, I had been in the corporate world
23:28 and you know I had done a lot of training
23:30 but the Lord told me,
23:32 hands off you don't get to do,
23:34 you don't get to use an employee,
23:36 those same things you did there.
23:38 You gonna speak from your heart
23:40 and suddenly I started sharing about my past.
23:43 I mean, I never even admitted to anyone
23:45 that my mother was bipolar
23:47 or that she had a drinking problem.
23:49 I never admitted to anyone the things
23:51 that I had gone through,
23:53 and it was so interesting that as you share
23:58 there is something cathartic about sharing
24:00 because there is...
24:02 And part of it was pride,
24:04 like I didn't want to talk about my sister
24:05 being a drug addict.
24:07 And I finally recognize this is pride,
24:10 but when God told me you have to be open,
24:13 you have to share from that place of brokenness
24:16 because that's how what I share it whether
24:19 it was exalting His word or pressing into His presence,
24:21 the grace pipeline,
24:23 any of these teachings that I predominantly put forward.
24:26 It's all things that God taught me
24:28 as He was leading me out of darkness
24:31 and into His marvelous light.
24:32 Even though I was a Christian, you know,
24:34 you're still in this darkness.
24:36 So could you talk about that, do you think people are,
24:39 and I still think that there are some things
24:41 that I probably need to like go up from the past that
24:44 maybe I have it yet but
24:47 do you find that Christians are sometimes
24:50 it's too painful or too prideful
24:52 to deal with the past.
24:54 I mean it could be pain and pride.
24:56 And we carry a lot of shame
24:57 because if you tell people your mom was bipolar,
24:59 what are they gonna think of you.
25:00 So in the church we need to have more safety
25:03 where we can share our story and not be fixed,
25:06 not be judged and have people listen to us
25:08 and pray with us.
25:10 And so, you know,
25:11 the quote Paul that says put the past in the past
25:13 but when he does that,
25:14 if you look in the chapter where he does that,
25:16 he is listing everything you put in the past.
25:18 When he gives the testimony, does he talk about his past?
25:21 He does but it's in the context of telling
25:23 where God brought him out of darkness into light.
25:25 So I think God wants to use our past
25:27 as our story because it's part of our story
25:30 to share with other people to connect
25:32 but we've all heard testimonies
25:34 that focus more in the dark side
25:35 then the light of truth.
25:37 Those are not good
25:38 because it end up glorifying sin, it's...
25:40 Look at all the fun God saved me from,
25:41 look at all the bad things I was doing.
25:44 I think we need to tell enough about our past,
25:46 I don't need to go into details about
25:47 my bitterness, anger, porn,
25:50 all the drugs and stuff,
25:52 I don't need to tell all those details.
25:53 I need to know tell enough to share,
25:55 hey, these are some of the things
25:56 I was using to cope and try to medicate my pain
25:58 and survive in life.
26:01 But then I want to talk more about
26:02 what are those negative thoughts
26:03 and what does God done for me,
26:05 and now I travel around this country
26:07 and other countries helping people with abused,
26:09 trauma and addictions
26:10 because God used my story
26:12 to open up a door for ministry and share with other people.
26:17 And so our story, when you hear someone else
26:19 share about their mom being bipolar
26:21 or they're struggling with something similar you do,
26:23 there is this aha-aha moment,
26:24 uh, they understand if I told them,
26:27 did I struggle with anger.
26:28 If I told them I struggled with porn, pornography,
26:30 whatever it is,
26:31 if I told them they are not gonna judge me,
26:33 because I've just heard him share
26:34 in a way that I know they've been broken
26:36 and God has done something in my life.
26:38 My co-writer Lindsey,
26:39 you know came out of a lot of brokenness and abandonment,
26:41 you know, and it led to depression
26:43 and a suicide attempt.
26:44 Well, now, God's given her a lot of healing and freedom,
26:46 she was my co-writer, she's written her own book,
26:48 so God's now using her story to bless other people,
26:51 so I think using our past in a way
26:53 that it bring glory of God,
26:54 showing what He's done for us is very power...
26:57 I mean, I think of Sheri story.
27:00 She gave me permission to share her story.
27:02 How many women are sitting in our churches
27:04 that had an abortion would never tell anybody
27:06 because of shame.
27:07 Now, Sheri's story gives them
27:09 permission to seek healing and freedom.
27:10 Yes.
27:11 Well, it's just amazing to me
27:14 how the Lord works to heal
27:17 and how He's using a ministry
27:18 and we just want to thank you once again
27:20 Paul for being here today.
27:22 For those of you at home,
27:24 if you're interested in inviting Paul
27:27 maybe to come to your church and do a training,
27:29 you can go to his website
27:36 and that's a number two,
27:40 And if you're interested in getting his book,
27:42 The Hidden Half of the Gospel,
27:44 this is something I highly recommend
27:47 and you can go to
27:53 to order the book.
27:55 And as I said,
27:56 we've already supplied all of our pastors
27:58 here with this book because it is a prayer ministry
28:02 but there is healing in the stories
28:05 and healing in understanding
28:07 how Christ identifies with us in everyway.
28:10 He was tempted in everyway as we are yet without sin.
28:15 Well, our prayer for you is that the grace of our Lord
28:17 and Savior Jesus Christ,
28:18 the love of the Father
28:20 and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit
28:22 would be with you always.


Revised 2016-11-17