Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Paul Coneff
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000470A
00:01 In 1 Corinthians 15:57, Paul wrote saying,
00:05 "Thanks be to God who gives us the victory in Christ Jesus."
00:09 Have you accepted Christ as your Savior
00:12 and sincerely believe you've been saved,
00:14 yet you are not experiencing complete healing in your life?
00:19 Please join us today on Issues and Answers
00:22 as we discuss how to get beyond the past,
00:27 let God do the healing so that you can walk
00:30 in complete victory.
01:02 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn and we welcome you once again
01:05 to Issues and Answers.
01:07 I am so excited that we have a special guest today
01:11 that we've invited to come back,
01:13 he's done it today program here on 3ABN,
01:16 but his ministry is incredible
01:19 and we wanted you to have the opportunity
01:22 to hear a little more from him without further adieu,
01:25 let me introduce Paul Coneff who is a pastor,
01:29 licensed family counselor.
01:31 But more importantly you are the founder
01:34 of Straight 2 the Heart Ministries
01:37 and you're an author of a book
01:39 called, The Hidden Half of the Gospel.
01:43 You can see Paul by the way this book is,
01:46 is fanning out that I have devoured your book.
01:50 This is an excellent book and it is all about
01:54 how Christ sufferings help heal our wounds.
01:59 If you were to give me
02:02 a 20 word definition
02:06 of The Hidden Half of the Gospel,
02:08 what would it be?
02:11 Christ suffered.
02:13 That's what he said as part of his gospel
02:15 so he could dentify with us, relate to us,
02:18 so we can know that he's gone through
02:19 what we've gone through as part of the gospel
02:21 that will heal us and set us free.
02:24 And it's so true, when I was reading your book,
02:27 the first thought that I, you know,
02:28 when we think of the gospel,
02:30 we think of the idea that God sent His Son
02:32 to die for us while we were yet sinners,
02:34 that through His death, burial and resurrection
02:38 that we, as we accept Him as our Savior can be saved.
02:42 We're redeemed, we are forgiven, we're cleansed
02:46 and all the things that go with that.
02:48 So when I first saw your book laying on someone's desk,
02:51 The Hidden Half of the Gospel,
02:53 I thought well, what more is there to the gospel.
02:57 As I read it these are things we know
03:00 but we don't really like, like the disciples.
03:05 When Christ kept telling them over and over again,
03:07 He would have to suffer and die
03:09 and somehow the message it was kind of like.
03:13 That's what we do with this idea
03:16 of we don't understand
03:17 that Christ suffered to fulfill prophecy.
03:20 He became like us in all ways,
03:24 so that He could be our faithful high priest
03:27 and that His suffering is part of His ministry,
03:31 it's part of the gospel.
03:33 It's amazing, I love your book. Thank you.
03:36 So, let's...
03:38 I'm just going to throw it to you.
03:39 Let's get started because you have us
03:42 an amazing story to tell us about someone who was baptized,
03:47 sincerely accepted Christ
03:49 but came up with the same problems
03:52 that she went into the water with.
03:54 Diana is one of the first story in my book.
03:56 We kind of laid the foundation for Jesus suffered
03:59 to identify with us.
04:00 To forgive us and to heal us and set us free.
04:03 And Diana as a child had been sexually abused
04:06 by a family friend.
04:08 I wouldn't call him a friend
04:09 but that's his position in the family.
04:13 And so out of that she ended up learning
04:15 to believe a negative thought, I have to keep myself safe
04:18 and if you're four and five years old
04:20 and you've been abused, you've been hurt,
04:22 that would be an easy thought to have.
04:24 It's my responsibility to keep myself safe
04:26 because no one is here to protect me.
04:28 So eventually as she tried to protect herself
04:31 and worry about how to protect herself,
04:32 it grew into fear, panic attacks,
04:34 she became an adult, she got married, she had kids,
04:37 but she ended up with agoraphobia, claustrophobia.
04:40 She's scared of open places and close spaces.
04:42 So the fear went to panic attacks to these,
04:45 to being afraid of open or close spaces
04:47 and then she ended up with irritable bowel
04:49 which is basically a situation where for some people
04:53 your stomach is tied not to end up having diarrhea.
04:56 Well, the more she worries
04:57 about having to keep herself safe
04:59 and she's trying to be on guard to protect herself,
05:02 her mind and her body is working, working, working
05:04 and it's getting worse.
05:05 So she ends up accepting Christ sincerely.
05:08 She ends up getting Bible studies from a pastor.
05:10 He's a friend of mine Pastor Greg Sheller.
05:12 He's a very good pastor, they did Bible study.
05:14 She sincerely believed
05:16 what he was teaching her in a word.
05:18 She sincerely got baptized.
05:20 But when she got baptized all of her fear,
05:22 her panic attacks, her claustrophobia,
05:24 agoraphobia and there were about came up
05:26 out of the baptistery with her.
05:28 So she's giving her testimony
05:29 but she's talking about the panic attacks.
05:31 So Pastor Greg and I talked to her and said,
05:33 "Hey, we'd like to share with you my ministry
05:36 and we'd like to pray with you."
05:37 About a year later she says, "I'm willing to accept prayer."
05:39 And we asked her why did you take a year?
05:42 She said, "Because I wasn't worth your time."
05:44 See her belief system became a negative identity
05:47 and if she's not worth our time,
05:48 why would she accept the offer.
05:49 Oh, that's so sad.
05:51 It is, and the power of Satan's lies
05:54 because Jesus said, "He's the father of lies."
05:56 So we want to deal with those lies,
05:58 the roots behind her negative feelings and behaviors.
06:00 We're not going to minimize negative feelings.
06:02 We're not going to minimize negative or sinful behaviors,
06:04 but we want to deal with those root issues,
06:06 those root lies because one Jesus did say,
06:09 "Satan is the father of lies."
06:10 So that's the root issue.
06:12 The other reason is those lives become my identity
06:16 and it's my filter
06:17 through which I see the word, the world.
06:20 How I see God in others.
06:21 So my belief system is, I have to keep myself safe.
06:26 My mind will be working overtime all the time
06:29 trying to keep myself safe.
06:31 And she's driving and not letting her husband drive
06:33 not because she's trying to be a control freak,
06:35 but she doesn't feel safe unless she's at the wheel.
06:37 It's not just she doesn't believe her husband can drive.
06:40 It's that I have to be in control.
06:43 I have to be on guard because otherwise I can be hurt.
06:46 And, you know, this is something
06:47 that when you said that Satan is trying to rob us
06:49 of our identity.
06:50 I have said in a previous book that I wrote,
06:53 I mentioned that the greatest crisis in the church today
06:58 in my personal opinion
07:00 is that we do not know who we are in Christ.
07:04 We don't know the freedom.
07:06 We don't know that haven't experienced the healing,
07:08 so we have this identity crisis.
07:12 Much like when the 12 spies went out
07:15 and, you know, when Moses said, "Okay, you can go out."
07:18 God says, "Yep, you can send them."
07:20 When they came back,
07:22 ten of them had this identity crisis.
07:24 They saw themselves as grasshoppers
07:27 compared to the giants in the land.
07:29 Well, that's pretty much what's going on in the church,
07:31 we come, we've got the verbal camouflage,
07:34 we can come to church and there are so many people
07:37 who happy Sabbath, happy Sabbath.
07:40 But inside they may really be wounded
07:43 and they don't know who, to whom they can speak.
07:47 They don't know how to even articulate their problem.
07:50 So here you've got a woman who's been baptized,
07:55 joined the church, accepted Christ as her Savior,
07:58 yet the fruit,
08:02 the behavior of her problem is still very apparent,
08:07 it's still blossoming
08:08 because you haven't got into the root issue.
08:10 So Diana has a lot of sincerity and she doesn't have victory.
08:15 But the disciples were sincere when they said we wouldn't,
08:17 they wouldn't deny Christ
08:18 and they were only sincerely publicly,
08:20 spectacularly wrong
08:21 because again they had a belief system,
08:22 militant Messiah.
08:25 And so Jesus is telling them,
08:26 "I'm going to come and suffer, die and rise again,
08:28 I'm the suffer Messiah."
08:29 And they couldn't accept it because their belief systems
08:32 kept them from receiving truth from a perfect teacher
08:35 with perfect truth and perfect doctrine.
08:37 So if that lie is sitting there and it runs into truth,
08:41 it tends to reject the truth.
08:43 It can't receive it.
08:44 So we want Diana to not only receive baptism,
08:46 receive Jesus, we want her to receive victory.
08:48 And now we connect her story with Jesus story,
08:51 because you mentioned it earlier,
08:53 He was tempted like us, made like us in all ways,
08:56 yet without sin.
08:57 So she's been physically, verbally abused,
08:59 sexual abused.
09:01 Jesus is betrayed by a kiss,
09:03 somebody close to Him betrays Him.
09:05 He's stripped naked and physically violated,
09:07 shamed and humiliated.
09:09 Was He tempted with the belief system,
09:12 I'm not safe. I have to protect myself.
09:14 I have to take control.
09:15 According to scripture, He was tempted to believe
09:18 when He was being mistreated and physically violated.
09:21 I'm not safe and physically He wasn't safe.
09:23 But His identity was secured in Jesus,
09:26 in the Father,
09:27 so instead of trying to take control,
09:29 He was able to stay surrendered to the father.
09:32 You know, I had to just interject this thought.
09:35 Since He was tempted in all ways as we are,
09:37 surely He was tempted to protect Himself to stop,
09:42 you know, no one likes physical pain
09:44 and so His humanity, in His humanity
09:47 surely He was tempted as we are
09:50 as Diana was to try to protect herself.
09:53 Yet I think of it,
09:54 His temptation was a thousand times more
09:57 because Diana as a young child
09:59 she couldn't protect herself.
10:01 Christ could have called a legion of angels,
10:04 He could have just pointed His finger and zapped them
10:07 so, His temptation was so much stronger
10:10 than our temptation when you think about it.
10:13 It was, He told His disciples,
10:14 "I could call twelve legions of angels, I don't need you,
10:16 I can replace you with a legion of angels."
10:19 And often I'll ask people how many angels did He need
10:21 and they'll say one,
10:22 and I will say how about one less than one
10:24 because He made the angels.
10:27 So like you said, He could have zapped them.
10:28 So He's tempted,
10:29 He stays connected to His Father
10:31 because His identity is secure in being the Son of God
10:35 with His Father loving Him.
10:36 The difference is, I go through negative experiences,
10:38 Diana goes through negative experiences.
10:40 We believe these lies without even realizing it,
10:43 because the devil is not coming up
10:44 and saying you're stupid, you're no good,
10:46 you have to be in control, you're not safe.
10:48 I get a thought I am not safe.
10:51 I am bad, I am rejected. First person.
10:53 First person, and I think it's my thought
10:55 so now He's got His seeds as it turn into a root system
10:58 and then I read God's word and I want to believe it.
11:02 And in my head, I want to believe it
11:04 but my heart says something else.
11:05 So we were able to pray with her,
11:07 connect her to Jesus who was betrayed by a kiss.
11:10 Stripped naked, physically violated.
11:13 Mentally and verbally abused to identify with her
11:16 to take all of her panic attack,
11:18 all of her phobias, her fears. Her irritable bowel,
11:22 we prayed that Jesus took that into His death,
11:24 His suffering, His death and His resurrection.
11:26 We prayed day after day
11:27 during a series of meetings when I was there,
11:29 and she ended up with an awful lot of freedom,
11:31 and then I had to go on a trip.
11:33 I continued praying with her because it's not a quick fix.
11:36 It's not a 30 second prayer.
11:37 We all wish we had that,
11:39 but I have a discipleship process.
11:41 And so what happened was the pastor asked her
11:43 to help her with the depression way out seminar
11:45 that he was doing at the church.
11:47 And so after she gets a lot of healing,
11:48 she formed a small group in her home.
11:51 They started studying the Bible together.
11:52 So she moved into ministry as a testimony.
11:55 But this one night she's there at the depression seminar
11:57 and she's starting to get thoughts,
12:00 "Whom am I to be giving a testimony."
12:01 Yes. I'm not worthy.
12:04 And she thinks...
12:05 Satan is whispering into her ear once again.
12:07 And then she gets a thought, well, I should leave.
12:10 They weren't her thoughts.
12:11 And then she thought wait a minute,
12:14 I can take every thought captive
12:15 to the obedience of Christ.
12:16 I can talk to God, share these thoughts
12:18 and receive His truth in His place.
12:21 So she's praying about it.
12:22 She got peace, she gave her testimony,
12:24 she ended up being actively involved in that ministry
12:26 and other ministries in the church,
12:27 so she's moving into ministry with a testimony
12:29 with a Jesus who was tempted not only to believe lies,
12:34 but to doubt His identity
12:35 because every attack against Him
12:37 in the wilderness began with the words,
12:38 "If you're the Son of God."
12:41 Through his trials the priest say,
12:42 "If you're the Son of God tell us,"
12:45 then they blindfold him and spit in his face
12:48 and they say, "If you're the Son of God tell us who."
12:52 And then on the cross, what do they say to Him
12:53 when He's hanging on the cross?
12:55 If you're the Son of God...
12:56 Come down and prove it. Come down and prove it.
12:57 So all these attacks
12:59 are attacks against His truest deepest identity.
13:02 So it wasn't as bad as the physical, verbal,
13:04 sexual abuses and I don't want to minimize that
13:06 because I work with that kind of trauma lot
13:08 as a marriage family therapist.
13:10 I would say that the real attack
13:13 is to take her through these negative experiences
13:15 to set her up with a negative identity.
13:17 Because if she doesn't get healing,
13:19 if she doesn't get freedom, if she doesn't get victory,
13:22 then she begin to doubt
13:23 whether she really has the assurance of salvation,
13:25 whether she's really a Christian.
13:26 Does the devil leave her just struggling
13:29 or does he begin to whisper?
13:30 "Hey, maybe I really didn't commit to Jesus.
13:32 Maybe salvation really doesn't have power."
13:35 So it opens a door for more lies.
13:36 So we were able to pray with her,
13:38 disciple her over time.
13:40 Have her get into a small group that she started on her own,
13:43 start sharing her testimony and move into ministry
13:46 because Jesus had been making a difference in our life
13:48 because part of our prayer we close with
13:51 would be, dear, heavenly Father,
13:53 thank you that Jesus fulfilled prophecy suffering like I did,
13:57 being violated verbally, mentally, physically,
14:00 taking all of the way I was violated,
14:02 all my negative thoughts that I'm alone.
14:04 I'm not safe. I have to be in control.
14:07 She has to look at her patterns of self-protection.
14:09 And all the ways that cause fear and anxiety
14:12 and panic in my life
14:14 and then rising again to heal me and set me free,
14:16 so I can receive my truest deepest identity
14:20 as your daughter.
14:21 So we're always praying that identity issue
14:23 so she's beginning to let God renew her mind
14:25 and she's seeing herself
14:26 not based on what was done to her.
14:29 Not in her attempts to try and protect herself,
14:32 but through everything God has done for her.
14:34 Amen. Amen.
14:36 I want to back up for just a second
14:38 because I understand everything you're saying
14:42 since I have, as I said devoured your book.
14:44 You were quoting while ago, 2 Corinthians 10
14:49 and I'm going to begin with verse 4.
14:52 What Paul writes, "For the weapons of our warfare
14:54 are not carnal but mighty in God
14:57 for pulling down strongholds."
15:00 Where is the devil's stronghold?
15:02 It's right here.
15:04 The stronghold is what we believe
15:07 if we have negative beliefs,
15:09 anything that contradicts the word of God
15:11 about who you are, about who God says you are.
15:14 Anything that contradicts that
15:17 is it becomes a stronghold in your mind
15:19 and he's the one that sets them up.
15:21 So Paul is saying, "We've got all these weapons."
15:24 And he says, "Pulling down the strongholds,
15:26 casting down arguments and every high thing
15:29 that exalts itself against the knowledge of God,
15:32 bringing every thought into captivity
15:36 to the obedience of Christ."
15:38 I think the only way that as human beings
15:43 we can take her thoughts captive
15:46 is we have to replace them with another thought.
15:49 We have to replace them with the truth of God.
15:52 How did...
15:54 Let's just kind of rewind for a second.
15:56 You were a pastor for many years.
15:59 Tell us how you got to this place
16:04 of understanding the hidden half of the gospel,
16:07 that part of the gospel
16:09 is that Christ suffered in all ways as we did,
16:13 I mean the word says it,
16:15 but to really put the emphasis on it say,
16:17 hey, this is where healing comes from
16:19 is when you understand Christ can identify with you,
16:23 you're not alone.
16:24 He's been through everything you've gone through.
16:26 How did this come into being
16:29 where you realize there had to be something more.
16:32 Out of my own brokenness.
16:34 I came out of the world bitter, angry, drinking,
16:36 doing drugs pornography.
16:38 I had a Ph D. in self-pity.
16:40 No academic credit but I had a lot of poor me.
16:43 And God brought me out of that,
16:44 I went to, ended up at a college,
16:46 I ended up becoming a pastor,
16:48 and then I had kids and adults who were broken,
16:51 and I could move them into ministry very effectively.
16:56 But I didn't know how to get them healing,
16:58 get them healing in freedom and so I started praying,
17:00 and I said, God, how do I bring healing and freedom to them.
17:02 I know Your cross makes a difference
17:04 for the forgiveness of our sins.
17:06 How does it deal with the brokenness?
17:07 And God said, "Let me start with you first."
17:09 And I said, "No, I just want to help my church members.
17:12 I don't need to deal with my past."
17:14 It's too painful to go back and deal with your own past...
17:16 I thought I went to four years of pastoral ministry,
17:18 I got it together. My past is in my past.
17:20 I'm not drinking or doing drugs and he said,
17:22 "No, there's more."
17:23 So we have a little bit of arm wrestling match
17:24 and God won.
17:26 And now I hear people all the time
17:27 tell me my past is in the past.
17:29 So it came out and God started dealing with me
17:31 to deeper level with some of those negative thoughts
17:34 that I grew up with that I'm bad,
17:35 that I'm rejected, I'm not good enough.
17:37 I have to be on guard.
17:39 And so as He started dealing with me
17:41 and I started getting some healing and freedom,
17:43 I was now able to offer to others
17:45 and I started my whiteboard in my office
17:47 writing down across.
17:49 And I would write sins down on the left hand corner
17:51 struggles, addictions, brokenness,
17:52 whatever the person was sharing and on the right hand side
17:55 I started writing Jesus' journey
17:56 from Gethsemane to Calvary but it wasn't all at once.
17:59 I'm kind of a slow learner.
18:01 So it kind of happened and grew over time
18:03 and all of a sudden I started noticing
18:04 when I connected their suffering,
18:06 their struggles, their addictions,
18:08 their brokenness
18:09 with Jesus' journey from Gethsemane to Calvary.
18:11 Now He suffered more than that
18:12 but in a short time period in one session
18:15 I go basically focus on Gethsemane to Calvary
18:18 where He's alone, He's abandoned,
18:20 He's betrayed, He's abused physically verbally, mentally.
18:23 He's experiencing racial prejudice,
18:25 political prejudice, religious prejudice.
18:28 And then He's tempted to numb His pain on the cross,
18:30 with wine vinegar mix.
18:32 And then He cries out, why have You forsaken Me.
18:34 And I found that an awful lot of our experiences fit in that.
18:37 And as I connected people story to Jesus' story
18:40 and started praying that, turning that into prayers,
18:42 because like you said, we can't just say,
18:44 okay, I know negative thought,
18:46 I'm not going to think it anymore.
18:47 We have to pray to God, thank Him for taking it
18:50 and then receive His truth in its place.
18:52 Paul says, "Put off and put on."
18:54 So we want to bring these negative thoughts to God
18:57 and say, "God, these are negative thoughts I have.
18:59 Thank you that Jesus was tempted like me in these ways
19:01 and then begin receiving His truth, His peace,
19:04 His righteousness in its place."
19:08 You know when the Bible talks about God
19:13 rewards those who have that faith in Him
19:17 that He is a rewarder of those with faith.
19:20 I don't think that we understand often
19:23 our own thought process
19:25 that has been initiated by Satan
19:28 that we actually create barriers for God's blessings,
19:33 because we won't except by faith.
19:37 As long as we've got this negative belief system
19:41 and I think that, you know,
19:42 I also grew up in a very dysfunctional environment,
19:47 had a great fear of abandonment
19:50 and comes from my parents divorcing
19:51 when I was four, my father got custody of me, took me off,
19:55 you know a couple of thousand miles away
19:57 from where my mother brand new baby sister were,
20:01 then he left me with my grandparents.
20:03 He went somewhere else working and then he was killed
20:07 and so I had, you know, there was all of this stuff
20:12 that I've always had this issue of abandonment,
20:15 believing I had to be perfect to be loved.
20:18 So it was an issue that I felt
20:20 like I was a pretty balanced person.
20:26 I'm sure my husband thought I was a balanced person
20:29 when we married,
20:30 but I found that all of my abandonment issues
20:34 were strong still in my heart, there was a root there.
20:37 And so it wasn't something I was going to verbalize to him
20:41 but it caused me a lot of pain and suffering
20:43 until I got really into the word of God and God,
20:47 it took some time to take away that fear of abandonment.
20:51 But why is it?
20:54 Why do you think it's so important
20:57 that I wished I'd known then that,
21:01 you know, Christ felt abandoned,
21:02 He experienced that abandonment He had.
21:06 Everybody that was closest to Him fled
21:09 and even Peter was,
21:11 was denying Him and cursing with his denial.
21:14 He felt abandoned by the Father.
21:16 And I think that would have helped
21:18 if I had known that earlier,
21:20 but why do you believe that helps so much, Paul.
21:23 Why does it help for people to see that Christ
21:27 their high priest, their savior can identify with them?
21:31 What is that emotional connection
21:34 or what makes it click for people?
21:37 I would say the most important thing
21:38 is a lot of people know
21:41 that other people have gone through experiences
21:43 like them, like Diana.
21:44 If you asked Diana today,
21:46 does she know other people have been abused?
21:47 She would say yes.
21:49 If somebody asked you, "Do you know other people
21:50 have been abandoned in different,
21:52 maybe not the same way but in different ways.
21:53 Yes. Yes.
21:54 But something in our heart goes
21:56 "Ah, now I know I'm really not alone.
21:58 I think the number one response
21:59 to seeing a slide where's Jesus' suffering.
22:01 We have a picture of Jesus on the cross
22:03 and then we start going through Him being alone,
22:05 abandoned, betrayed, abused, rejected.
22:08 All of a sudden the Holy Spirit's
22:09 able to speak to the heart and say,
22:10 "You are not alone.
22:12 You have someone that understands."
22:14 And when that happens,
22:15 there's something in them psychologically, emotionally,
22:18 mentally every one says it,
22:19 there's something in their heart that says,
22:21 "I can relax.
22:23 They understand."
22:25 I'm in the presence of somebody
22:26 who knows what I've gone through.
22:27 I don't have to be on guard.
22:30 I can be relaxed more
22:31 and I begin receiving with that relationship with him
22:35 and what that does is it creates intimacy
22:37 with a more stronger relationship.
22:40 It's like the woman at the well.
22:43 Don't you know that when Jesus is looking her
22:45 in the eyes and saying,
22:47 "If only you knew the gift of God."
22:49 And who it was that's offering you a drink.
22:51 He sat there and told her everything about it.
22:54 She probably felt understood
22:56 for the first time in her life, and there is power.
22:59 We all want to be understood. Yeah.
23:02 You know and there's very few people,
23:05 even you, people can be married for 50 years
23:07 and somebody would not feel
23:09 maybe that their spouse truly understood them
23:11 but God knows.
23:13 So tell us what happened with Diana?
23:18 Well, Diana as we were praying every day
23:20 while I was doing a series of meetings,
23:22 and so she got prayer,
23:24 so we had to deal with a lot of hard work,
23:25 there were a lot of fears, there was negative thoughts,
23:27 there was issues of forgiveness.
23:28 I mean, this isn't an easy process.
23:31 But as we kept connecting her story to Jesus story,
23:34 she was able to restart receiving healing.
23:37 And I think the fourth day in a row I was there,
23:39 she came back and she said for the first time in years
23:42 I've been able to get some sleep.
23:43 Praise God.
23:45 Because when she goes to sleep, guess what happens?
23:46 Her body is still on guard, it's still wired.
23:49 So if my mind's going, going, going
23:51 and I have to be on guard, I have to be in control,
23:53 I have to make sure I'm self safe
23:55 not to be controlling over others,
23:57 but to protect myself.
23:58 I can lay down a bit
24:00 but does that mean my body is ready to rest?
24:02 No, my body system is going zing, zing, zing, zing, zing.
24:05 And so she was able to start getting some sleep,
24:08 so she noticed that.
24:09 And then she shared a time later
24:13 where there was a police story that hit the national news
24:15 because somebody in their neighborhood
24:17 had drugs and were selling
24:18 and they busted him at two in the morning.
24:20 So she hears this foghorn and she goes
24:22 and instead of being going into panic mode
24:24 she goes, oh, it's there,
24:25 so she goes out to find out what happened.
24:27 The next day people are interviewing people,
24:28 they ask people in neighborhood if they would be interviewed.
24:31 They all said no.
24:32 She ended up saying yes without thinking
24:33 and then said, "Wait a minute I can't do it.
24:35 I have panic attacks."
24:36 But then she said, "No, I can pray through it."
24:38 And then she ended up being interviewed
24:39 and it was a national interview.
24:43 And she was actually excited
24:44 that she was able to pray through those negative thoughts
24:46 so the devil didn't stop attacking her
24:48 but they didn't stick.
24:50 She was able to take those thought she was,
24:52 she knew what the weapons of her warfare were,
24:54 she was exploring them
24:56 and she could take the thoughts...
24:57 And that's, that's a critical verse
24:58 to section to our ministry
25:00 that we're not trying to do it on our own strength.
25:03 We're taking those thoughts to Jesus
25:04 and trusting in power.
25:05 And later on about nine months later,
25:07 somebody was trying to kill himself drunk driving
25:10 and ran into her husband and hit him
25:12 and so he wasn't able to work because he lived but the brain,
25:17 his brain was hit hard.
25:19 And so during that was she concerned about her spouse?
25:23 But she didn't have any panic attacks.
25:25 Now we wouldn't deliberately set up a test like that.
25:28 But Jesus says, "When the son sets you free,
25:30 you're free indeed."
25:31 So we're not saying she never got any more negative thoughts.
25:33 What we're saying is when the devil hit her,
25:36 she recognized the source.
25:37 She took it to God
25:39 and it didn't become part of her identity.
25:40 So she was able to pray through that and like I said,
25:42 she had a small group.
25:43 She moved into ministry
25:45 in the church being very active.
25:46 See now that's a part I don't want to just slide past.
25:49 She moved into ministry because that's the beauty
25:54 of Straight 2 the Heart Ministries and that's
25:56 straight2theheartministries .com.
26:00 That healing comes and then people you,
26:06 you focus on moving people into ministry.
26:10 We're all called to fulfill the great commission.
26:13 We're all part of the body.
26:14 But I think that, you know, you often heard it said,
26:19 I say it often that, we teach to learn or excuse me
26:23 we, we learn to teach, we teach to learn.
26:27 And it's one thing as you are receiving healing,
26:32 I think that God intents for you to turn around
26:35 and as He said that He's the God of all comfort
26:37 who, who comforts you
26:39 so that you can go out and comfort others
26:41 with the same comfort that you've received from Him.
26:43 I think that as people receive healing
26:47 then go and say, "Hey, I can show you the way.
26:49 I can show you the gospel."
26:51 This is where even more complete healing comes in.
26:55 I think it's exciting what you're doing.
26:57 It is, and like you mentioned the woman at the well,
26:59 Jesus speaks into her pattern of brokenness.
27:03 It wasn't comfortable for her and she tried to avoid it,
27:04 but she hung in there with Him.
27:06 He speaks into her pattern of brokenness
27:07 and what does she do?
27:09 She leaves her water pot,
27:10 you don't leave your water pot anywhere in the Middle East
27:12 in those days or today.
27:14 And she goes in
27:15 and she witnesses to whole town.
27:16 So to me I want God to speak into our brokenness,
27:19 bring His healing and freedom.
27:20 And like you said, move people into ministry,
27:22 but it's not like we're telling them
27:24 they have to, they want to,
27:25 they start doing it naturally from the inside out.
27:28 Well, I cannot believe how fast our time's gone.
27:31 Talking with you, it always goes fast.
27:33 I just wanted to say once again
27:35 that Paul's book is called The Hidden Half of the Gospel,
27:40 and what is the website for this?
27:48 And it's the Hidden Half of the Gospel,
27:49 how His suffering can heal yours.
27:51 All right.
27:54 is where you go to get this book.
27:58 My husband, I bought this for my husband.
28:01 I bought one for everyone in the pastoral department
28:04 'cause it is such an excellent book.
28:06 Paul, thank you so much for being with us,
28:08 and you want to be sure and tune in next week
28:12 because Paul's going to return, and we will cover some more
28:16 about the Hidden Half of the Gospel.
28:18 Thanks for joining us.