Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Bob
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000459A
00:01 Do you know anyone who is self-medicating,
00:05 perhaps their drug of choice is alcohol, maybe it's you.
00:09 Well, we want you to know that God gives you a way out,
00:14 and today we're going to be talking on Issues and Answers
00:17 about turning that problem over to God
00:21 and letting Him be in control of your recovery, join us.
00:56 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn and we welcome you once again
01:00 to Issues and Answers.
01:01 We are talking about a topic
01:04 that is in my opinion very important,
01:07 because 10 to 20 percent of the world's population
01:11 suffers from this disease
01:13 and the disease is called alcoholism.
01:16 This is something that we're very grateful
01:19 to our guest who is here,
01:20 who is a member of Alcoholics Anonymous,
01:23 and to, according to their tradition,
01:26 they do not want anyone to go forward
01:29 trying to bring attention to themselves
01:32 so they believe in anonymity and we are going to keep him
01:37 out of the spotlight so to speak he'll be shadowed.
01:40 So there's nothing wrong with our lights
01:43 or nothing wrong with your eyes.
01:44 We're just honoring his anonymity.
01:47 But please help me to welcome our special guest Bob.
01:52 Bob, thank you for returning.
01:53 Last time we were talking about your 11 year journey
01:58 as an alcoholic.
02:00 How far it had taken you
02:02 into just really you were getting into a pit,
02:06 and I know a little bit more about your testimony
02:10 that we're not talking about here.
02:12 But we were talking about how you got involved with AA.
02:18 Coming from a Christian family,
02:20 you already knew about the Lord.
02:23 But even though you were calling on the Lord,
02:25 you weren't educated enough to know the steps
02:29 to really surrender to God or you weren't ready I guess,
02:32 because I think it takes an alcoholic to minister
02:36 to another alcoholic.
02:37 You're right.
02:38 So we believe you've convinced me
02:41 at least that the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous
02:46 are filled with Christian principles,
02:49 based on biblical principles if you will.
02:52 So how did you, just jump in here and tell us,
02:55 how did you get from the first meeting
02:58 that you went to where there was a disconnect
03:00 because it was young people telling about traumatic stories
03:02 and that didn't fit your model.
03:04 How did you then end up in another AA meeting?
03:07 Well, Shelley, first of all, it's great to be back,
03:08 and I'm happy to be here.
03:11 I also want to add just a little caveat
03:13 that I should have said the last time and that is,
03:15 I do not speak for Alcoholics Anonymous.
03:18 I'm sharing with you my experience with AA...
03:21 No one actually speaks for AA.
03:23 We don't have spokespeople, we don't have a president,
03:26 we don't operate that way.
03:28 It's a very loosely knit group of groups if you will
03:34 who get together to share their experience,
03:36 strength and hope with each other.
03:38 But none of us is a spokesperson for AA.
03:40 My story basically, what I share the last time
03:43 is I managed to find my way to a young people's meeting
03:47 where I couldn't relate to the events in their lives.
03:51 But I left that meeting and I told my friend
03:54 that took me actually tied the monkey ass.
03:57 He told me where he was going
03:59 and I asked if I could go with him
04:01 which to me is God working in my life
04:03 because normally
04:04 I wouldn't have any interest in that.
04:06 But on the way home, I said, "You know,
04:08 I'm really glad you took me to this meeting."
04:10 And he says, "Why is that?"
04:12 I said, "Well, I know I drink too much,
04:14 but at least I know I'm not an alcoholic."
04:17 And he got real quiet, you know, it's funny.
04:19 He started letting my phone calls
04:21 go to voicemail after that
04:23 and I couldn't seem to get him to go out drinking with me
04:26 and it kind of made me mad.
04:27 A few months later, I walk into a bar
04:30 on a Sunday afternoon drunk out of my mind.
04:32 I've been drinking all day at home
04:34 and I'm not one of those drinkers
04:37 that can just sit at the bar and drink quietly.
04:40 I have to talk to people. I'm that kind of a drunk.
04:42 And so I looked around the bar and I found some people
04:44 I thought I knew and I went, and I sat down at the table.
04:48 There was a couple that I thought I knew
04:50 and the guy that I didn't know
04:52 and suddenly as I'm joining their conversation
04:55 or trying to I realize, I don't know these people
04:59 but already being in a drunken state,
05:01 I didn't care.
05:03 And they were polite enough not to tell me to get lost
05:06 but within a couple of minutes
05:07 they decided it was time for them to go
05:10 and I was left face to face with the man I didn't know.
05:13 And of course the polite thing to do in drinking circles
05:17 is to offer that person a drink and the waitress was coming by,
05:20 and I asked her to get him anything he wanted,
05:23 I was going to pay for him to have a drink and he says,
05:26 "I don't drink" and I said, "What is wrong with you."
05:29 Do you know where you are, you're in a bar.
05:32 And I ordered several shots of something
05:34 and he finally accepted a cola.
05:38 And we sat there
05:39 and I started talking to this total stranger about everything
05:43 and I don't even know what I was saying.
05:45 But I do remember that at some point,
05:47 I ran out of conversation and suddenly I said,
05:50 "You'll never guess what I did the other day."
05:52 And he says, ''What's that?"
05:53 And I said,
05:55 "I went to a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous.
05:56 And his head just snapped to attention he said, "Really?"
06:00 And suddenly I had his interest
06:02 and I did not understand anybody else's anonymity.
06:05 So I proceeded to tell him everything that I heard
06:08 in that meeting.
06:09 And he was very polite. He listened with interest.
06:13 But as the conversation went on,
06:16 I started telling him about my miserable life.
06:19 And I'm one of those crying drunks.
06:22 That's just not very fun to go out drinking with
06:25 because, at some point
06:26 I get very model and very weepy and whatever you know
06:30 crying in your beer kind of thing
06:31 and I just told them out and look at me.
06:33 I don't even know you.
06:34 I don't know why I'm talking to you.
06:37 I'm just so drunk,
06:38 I've been drunk all day and I did,
06:41 you know, I'm sorry man, I just,
06:42 I don't know what's wrong.
06:44 I don't know what's wrong. I can't stop drinking.
06:48 And that man looked at me and he says, "You know, Bob,
06:51 I want to tell you a story."
06:53 He proceeds to tell me his story
06:54 about how his drinking almost killed him
06:58 and how he found recovery in Alcoholics Anonymous.
07:01 And that surprised me,
07:03 and then he pulled out a medallion,
07:05 it was a seven year medallion.
07:07 And he gave it to me and insisted that I keep it
07:09 and he said, "I want you to have this,
07:11 it means that I've stayed sober a day at a time for seven years
07:16 but I want you to have it
07:17 because I think if you ever want help
07:19 that Alcoholics Anonymous can help you too.
07:22 And he gave me his phone number
07:24 which I thought was a little strange.
07:25 And he got up and he walked out sober.
07:28 And if that wasn't weird enough,
07:29 I walk over to the bartender and I said,
07:31 "Man you don't believe what just, what just happened?
07:35 I knew the bartender
07:37 so we had been drinking buddies for years
07:39 and he threw some really wild parties.
07:42 And so I showed him the seven year coin
07:44 and he looked at it and he says,
07:46 "Where did you get this."
07:47 And I told him the other guy's story of course,
07:50 still don't understand anonymity.
07:53 And he listened politely and he handed the coin back
07:56 with a smile on his face,
07:58 he stuck his hand into his pocket
08:00 and pulled out a three year coin
08:02 and says, Bob he says,
08:03 "I've been sober for three and a half years of day
08:06 at a time in AA, it works."
08:07 Yes, that blows my mind that if somebody or a pedophile.
08:13 You wouldn't put them to work in a nursery.
08:15 It blows my mind that someone who is an alcoholic
08:20 could be a bartender.
08:23 But it goes to the power of true recovery.
08:29 Let's talk about well, you've got into AA then,
08:33 and that's an amazing story.
08:35 I love that story.
08:37 And I believe God had somebody there for you.
08:40 Exactly. You know it's just amazing.
08:44 Tell us about the first step to recovery
08:49 and how you reacted to learning that first step?
08:53 Okay, let me just finish the story
08:54 with a little, little tiny detail.
08:57 The next day, I was at another meeting
08:59 this time with the bartender.
09:01 Praise God.
09:02 And eventually, the bartender lost his job,
09:04 he was accused of stealing money from the bar
09:07 when he was not.
09:09 And he told me years later he says,
09:11 "You know God did for me what I could not do for myself.
09:13 The money was too good in that bar
09:15 for me to quit that job.
09:17 But he made sure that I got out of it
09:19 before I was in trouble myself."
09:21 So, you know,
09:23 I've wondered out loud one time.
09:25 What were those two guys doing in a bar?
09:27 Sober members of Alcoholics Anonymous
09:29 and I'm gonna say had no business in that bar.
09:31 And I said this one time
09:32 as I told my story in an old timer
09:34 and they had been sober many years stood up
09:37 in the back of the room
09:38 and interrupted me which never happens,
09:41 when somebody is telling their story
09:42 and he says, "Son.
09:43 I can tell you why they were there."
09:45 He says, "They were there to save your life."
09:48 And I have to tell you that's the power.
09:51 That's the lengths
09:53 that God goes to find one of His kids,
09:55 He knew that that day in particular, I'd be ready.
09:59 And He made sure not just once but twice.
10:02 So I live that reality every day.
10:06 How do I get to step one? I hit bottom.
10:09 That's a term, we use in AA all the time.
10:12 And really my bottom was much higher
10:14 maybe than a lot of other people.
10:17 There are high bottoms and low bottoms in AA.
10:19 There are people who still have their families, their car,
10:22 their homes, their jobs,
10:25 but yet it's a spiritual and mental bottom.
10:28 You know the stress of that life.
10:31 The longing, the hole in our hearts
10:33 is so bad that we can't live another day
10:36 and that's when we hit bottom.
10:38 There are others who take it so much further,
10:40 they lose family, friends, jobs,
10:43 live on the streets, live in the parks,
10:45 and unfortunately that was the concept
10:47 that I had of what a true alcoholic was,
10:49 was the person living on the park bench
10:51 covering themselves with newspapers.
10:53 Now let me ask a quick question.
10:56 So yours, you didn't lose your family?
10:59 You didn't, you didn't hit that bottom there,
11:01 I know you were having a lot of physical problems...
11:05 More mental emotional and,
11:07 and of course the spiritual problem.
11:08 But were you at all aware
11:11 even though your family never said to you,
11:14 enough of you out of our,
11:15 you know we washed our hands if you...
11:18 Were you aware of how badly you were hurting your family?
11:23 Yes, and that caused more drinking.
11:25 Okay. So the guilt.
11:27 The guilt and the shame was just awful.
11:30 My family never brought up alcoholism to me.
11:33 They never did for whatever reasons
11:37 and it wouldn't have mattered if they had
11:39 because the one key earmark of an alcoholic
11:45 is called denial.
11:48 As far as I know, alcoholism is the only disease
11:51 that affects you physically, mentally, spiritually,
11:55 hurts you so bad every bit of evidence
11:57 and then large liver cirrhosis.
12:00 You know loss of jobs,
12:02 car wrecks, police, prison time,
12:05 the one thing that every alcoholic
12:07 suffers from is denial.
12:09 We believe even as we're dying
12:11 that there's nothing wrong with us,
12:13 that alcohol is actually what's keeping us together
12:15 instead of what's killing us.
12:17 So my denial was so...
12:19 Is it fair to say that you lay blame on everybody else
12:23 and everything else?
12:24 Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
12:26 It's never our fault,
12:27 it's if you had my job, you drink too.
12:30 If you had my boss, if you had my wife,
12:32 if you had my conditions you, you, you would have to drink.
12:36 You know in our mind that's the only logical thing
12:38 and it's a form of insanity, there's no doubt.
12:42 The first step came
12:43 when I finally put the shovel down
12:45 so to speak, you know,
12:46 they have this thing in AA that says,
12:47 "You hit bottom when you stop digging."
12:50 I've dug a deep hole
12:52 and the sides have not caved in on me yet,
12:54 but it was only a matter of time,
12:57 I came into AA, I hadn't had a DUI,
12:59 I hadn't been in trouble with the police.
13:00 I hadn't lost a job and they said, "Yet."
13:04 You haven't had these things happen yet,
13:06 but I could connect the dots and I saw where it was going,
13:10 I saw where it was headed.
13:12 And it was not only headed for all those troubles,
13:14 it was headed for death, and when I was convinced
13:17 that I was going to die, if I didn't do something else,
13:21 then I reached out for help.
13:23 My particular step one experience came
13:25 after I had been dry for a few months
13:28 and I had one more drink.
13:30 And that led to a blackout.
13:33 And I came out of a blackout.
13:37 This is kind of not fun to talk about
13:39 but I was throwing up blood, copious amounts of blood,
13:43 and I thought I'm dying of esophageal hemorrhaging
13:46 or something I'm going to die.
13:48 And in the middle of that blackout,
13:49 which really you don't remember at all.
13:51 I had a period of time where I was stone cold sober
13:54 in my mind.
13:56 We call it a moment of clarity. I saw myself in the mirror.
14:00 The wreck of a human being I had become.
14:02 I had blood and vomit all over me.
14:04 It was just an awful sight, but it is,
14:07 it was as if I was stone cold sober
14:09 staring myself in the face,
14:11 and I cried out to God for help.
14:13 I said, "God help me.
14:15 Don't let me die like this, any other way God,
14:18 but please not like this."
14:19 The most sincere honest humble prayer of my life,
14:23 "God help me."
14:25 I believe that our Father in heaven
14:27 has a prayer that He cannot resist
14:29 and that is one of us saying God help me.
14:31 So recap what is step one?
14:35 Step one is we admitted
14:38 that we were powerless over alcohol
14:40 that our lives have become unmanageable.
14:42 Okay, so and that's a huge step because somebody...
14:46 Once again, I just want to say this
14:48 that being clean and sober,
14:50 quitting drinking for a period of time
14:52 is only one half of the first step
14:54 because if you don't get to that point
14:57 where you come out of denial.
14:58 I mean some people can be clean and sober and think,
15:01 "Hey, I'm handling this okay."
15:02 That's right.
15:03 But you got to get to that point
15:05 where you're out of denial,
15:07 and once you're out of denial and recognize you need help.
15:11 So you, you had that moment of clarity,
15:14 you reached out.
15:16 What was step two?
15:19 Well, after admitting that I could do nothing for myself,
15:24 which really is biblical as well.
15:26 You know, we cannot help ourselves,
15:27 we need a savior.
15:30 I came to a meeting
15:31 and I remember it was on step two.
15:33 And I read the step and I got really suspicious.
15:38 I thought, oh, oh,
15:40 they're going to talk about God, you know.
15:42 Step two is came to believe
15:44 that a power greater than ourselves
15:45 could restore us the sanity, and I thought,
15:48 you're not fooling me, you're talking about God,
15:50 I know you are even though it wasn't mentioned.
15:52 This is so interesting because, I know that the organization
15:57 if you will, the structure of AA is such that they don't
16:02 specifically call on Jesus Christ
16:04 because they want to welcome people
16:07 who are agnostics, people who are Hindus,
16:10 people who are Buddhists whatever.
16:13 But then what we talked about last time,
16:17 so many of these people doing that finding...
16:20 The God, Jesus Christ as well, but here you called out on God.
16:25 When you had that moment of clarity,
16:27 but now you're at a meeting
16:28 and it's you're putting the brakes on.
16:31 So was it because even though you came
16:35 from a sincere Christian family,
16:38 did you feel pressure to be "religious" or...?
16:44 Never, so why do you have the breaks on?
16:47 Because I'm used to running the show.
16:50 Oh, oh. I was my own God.
16:52 As an alcoholic, every alcoholic feels like
16:55 they have to be in control
16:57 and to start believing in a God...
17:02 Well, for some people
17:03 it's the whole business of a personal God.
17:05 They have suffered horribly at the hands of others,
17:09 many times at the hands of Christians.
17:12 They have joined churches and been kicked out of churches
17:15 or rejected because they can't seem
17:17 to get their handle on alcoholism
17:20 and they feel worthless to start with,
17:23 and then of course, if it's reinforced by
17:25 even well meaning Christians
17:27 that say, "You know, you need to get this under control."
17:29 If I had any power to control my alcoholism,
17:32 I wouldn't need to go to church,
17:33 I wouldn't need God.
17:35 But I had to be beaten down to the point,
17:37 where I couldn't, I couldn't wiggle out of it.
17:40 I had to find a solution
17:41 because I could not live my life
17:43 one more day the way I was living.
17:45 Well, probably, you know, I have to just laugh
17:47 because you just got through saying,
17:49 step two was hard for you because now you're saying
17:52 that there is a power higher than you,
17:57 who will bring you out of your insanity
17:59 and you're sitting here saying
18:00 "Well, I like to be in control."
18:01 And I'm thinking that's hysterical
18:03 because you were totally out of control,
18:06 but you thought you were in control.
18:08 Anything you try to control is out of control already.
18:11 Okay, that's good. Okay.
18:13 Well, what happened was
18:14 that it wasn't a question of whether I believed in God.
18:17 The problem was I had tried God on my alcoholism
18:21 and they had failed me miserably.
18:22 I had been to church, even drunk before
18:26 many, many times hung over in church
18:29 begging and pleading for God for help
18:31 and the help never came.
18:33 The problem I found out later was because
18:35 I refused to humble myself.
18:36 I refused to say, "God,
18:38 You are the only way I'm going to get over this."
18:42 I thought I needed His help.
18:45 No, I needed to surrender and there's a big difference
18:49 between God help me and God help me do this.
18:54 You know when I said, "God help me.
18:56 Don't let me die like this."
18:57 I surrendered completely and that's when I got sober,
19:01 but now there was another step.
19:02 I came in believing there was God.
19:04 There was a God.
19:06 But I was sure that He did not believe in me.
19:09 Because how many times have I said, "God,
19:11 if you get me out of this mess, I will never drink again."
19:14 Could I possibly keep that promise?
19:16 Of course not.
19:17 You know, I was in the throes of alcoholism.
19:19 I did not understand
19:21 that every single area of my life
19:23 needs to be surrendered for me to stay sober.
19:26 I didn't realize how much I needed him,
19:28 I knew I needed Him, but not how much.
19:31 And that same day and at the end of the meeting
19:36 started talking to me
19:38 and somehow or another we got on this topic
19:40 of the second step and I said, "Well, you know, I just...
19:43 If this is how it's going to be,
19:45 I don't think I can do AA."
19:47 He says, "Why not?"
19:48 I said, "Well, I already have my beliefs about God."
19:52 He said, "That's not a problem.
19:53 We don't care what you believe or don't believe,
19:55 that's up to you."
19:56 And I said, "Well, I've tried church before
19:59 and it didn't work."
20:00 And he says, "Bobby, let me ask you a question.
20:02 Do you think that maybe somewhere along the way,
20:06 you might have gotten
20:07 the wrong impression about God."
20:10 And I said, "Oh, no, no, no you don't understand,
20:12 I was raised with the God of the New
20:13 and the Old Testament, I know all those stories.
20:16 I know God."
20:17 And there is my arrogance speaking, right?
20:19 He says, "Do you think
20:21 that your God would be too upset
20:23 if you chose to tell Him,
20:25 we're going to wipe the slate clean
20:27 and we're going to start over.
20:28 I'm putting everything I think I know about you out the door,
20:32 and I dare you to show me who you really are."
20:34 And I thought, of course he wouldn't be upset
20:37 but why would I do that.
20:38 I know who God is, I have godly parents.
20:41 I have been raised in a Christian home
20:43 and that arrogance was about to keep me stuck.
20:47 You had information about God,
20:49 you just didn't have relationship with God.
20:52 So what I did it out of desperation
20:54 not too many weeks later,
20:56 as I got on my knees and I said, "God,
21:00 please put aside everything I think I know about You,
21:04 and about AA, and about everything else in my life,
21:07 and about myself,
21:08 and please show me who You really are."
21:10 And that changed my life, because at that point
21:15 I started learning about Him from people in AA,
21:20 not people in my church, not my parents,
21:23 from people in AA that I barely knew.
21:25 What I learned from them was that they had
21:29 a childlike faith that I had never had.
21:32 They knew Him as their father that loved them,
21:36 that was patient, that was always forgiving.
21:40 That was not demanding perfection out of them
21:42 which is what I had somehow acquired
21:45 not from my parents by the way,
21:47 but from other well meaning Christians
21:49 so-called Christians in church
21:50 who had all the rules laid out for me
21:53 and if I failed on any of them,
21:54 I might as well just give up because it's all a failure.
21:57 I did not understand the concept of grace.
22:00 Not at all.
22:01 I found grace and mercy in AA.
22:05 People put up with me in my crazy thoughts,
22:08 in my crazy actions, my crazy words
22:10 and they loved me unconditionally,
22:11 they showed me who God was.
22:14 And from them I was finally able to say,
22:17 maybe I don't know everything about God.
22:19 And maybe we can build a different concept of God
22:23 which of course today is vastly different than the God
22:26 that I believed in at that point.
22:28 Bobby, I have to tell you something.
22:30 I just want to encourage everyone at home
22:33 who just heard this testimony.
22:35 Please listen to what he is saying,
22:37 because the Lord also reached me
22:39 and changed my life when he...
22:43 as I am deep in prayer to several hours every day,
22:47 and one day the Lord just impressed this thought
22:49 upon my mind.
22:51 He called me to full time ministry
22:53 but He impressed this thought upon my mind
22:55 he said, "Forget what you think you know,
22:57 come sit at my feet, I will teach you who I am,
23:01 I will teach you about Me."
23:03 And sometimes, even though we've had truths preached
23:09 or taught to us.
23:11 There are people who put a spin on those truths
23:15 and it leaves a wrong perception with us.
23:18 I didn't know a God of grace.
23:20 I mean I grew up in a completely different
23:23 denomination than I belong to now.
23:25 I had studied my way out of that
23:27 into non-denominational and it was God who,
23:31 when he told me forget what I thought
23:33 I know, He changed my perspective
23:37 of who He was.
23:39 I knew a lot about God, I felt
23:41 I had a relationship with Christ,
23:44 none with the Father, somewhat with the Holy Spirit.
23:48 But that is the beginning point for everyone
23:51 is to let God teach you keep going.
23:54 One of the strange things for me
23:56 and I know that most people
23:58 come to the Father through Jesus Christ.
24:01 I love Jesus but He loved me in a way that scared me.
24:05 Quite honestly, He terrified me.
24:08 If somebody loves me enough to die for me,
24:10 I'm scared of that.
24:12 In my alcoholism I was terrified of having
24:14 that personal relationship with Jesus.
24:16 And what I found is that
24:19 I could relate to my Heavenly Father
24:21 from what I was learning in AA
24:23 because I have a wonderful Christian father on this earth.
24:26 A humble man that loves me unconditionally
24:29 that is love me with as close to everlasting love
24:33 as you can imagine that I could handle.
24:36 And it was through that that I connected to God,
24:39 the Father, of course, believing in Jesus,
24:43 but still at arm's length.
24:44 And it took years actually
24:46 to be able to weigh Jesus Christ into my life
24:48 because I was truly terrified of what that looks like
24:52 to have somebody so close to you
24:54 that He was ready and willing and had given His life for me.
24:59 I don't know why that scared me but it did.
25:03 I had no problem connecting to God the Father, but I did,
25:07 I did have trouble connecting to Jesus
25:09 and that was something that the Holy Spirit
25:11 had to work with me on that Jesus had that woo me
25:13 and love me until I was ready to embrace Him.
25:17 I'd say for me it was just the opposite.
25:19 Because I never really had anyone
25:21 who really stood up for me, I felt her or not abandoned me.
25:24 But when it came to God the Father,
25:26 I was taught that he demanded perfection
25:28 and I saw Him as angry and judgmental
25:31 and I had such a crazy view.
25:35 You know Hebrews 1:3 was
25:37 what actually delivered me of that
25:38 when I realized that it says,
25:41 "That Jesus was the exact expression of his being."
25:45 And I thought wow, so God really help me.
25:48 It is just so fascinating to hear how even
25:55 when we were brought up in truths
25:56 or even if you're in the Bible.
25:58 We know as many different denominations as there are,
26:01 we know that people get different ideas
26:06 looking at the same material
26:07 that is so important to go scripture upon scripture,
26:11 precept upon precept which is what I love
26:15 about what you've shared with me
26:18 and we're getting to here,
26:20 is this program called "Alcoholics Anonymous"
26:24 is precept upon precept.
26:27 So you've gone through the first two steps here.
26:30 We're going to have to have you come back to do some more
26:32 'cause we're already out of time.
26:34 But the idea is precept upon precept that,
26:38 there are these stages, these 12 steps,
26:41 I should be going in this direction,
26:42 12 steps to recovery.
26:45 And even to the point of making restitution
26:49 and the accountability.
26:52 So this is something that we would, Bob,
26:55 I'd love to have you for many, many more programs,
26:58 because we'd also like to touch on Al-Anon
27:01 and how powerful the Al-Anon Family Groups are
27:07 for people who are living with alcoholics
27:10 or have an alcoholic in your life to learn
27:14 not to be an enabler,
27:16 to learn how to deal with it so good program.
27:20 Thank you for joining us.
27:22 For those of you at home, I pray if there's anyone
27:27 who is watching right now.
27:29 I pray that if this insanity of alcoholism
27:33 has a grip on you.
27:35 The Bible says, that God is righteous,
27:37 He will cut you free from the cords of the wicked
27:40 that bind you.
27:41 But you have to be like our dear brother Bob here,
27:46 who recognized that he was out of control,
27:51 recognized that it was something
27:54 that he couldn't handle.
27:56 And then got to the point where he realized
27:58 it was only by God's power,
28:01 God working in him to willing to do
28:04 that he could in fact let go and be healed.
28:09 Join us next time on Issues and Answers.