Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Doris Gothard
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000455A
00:29 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn.
00:30 And we welcome you again to Issues and Answers.
00:33 Today's issue is going to be about leadership.
00:37 It doesn't matter if you're in the corporate world
00:39 or if you have your own business
00:41 or if you work at Walmart,
00:43 if you are a mother or married and have a family,
00:48 if you are in the church,
00:50 everyone needs to know about leadership
00:53 because I believe God has called His people
00:55 to be the head and not the tail.
00:58 And we need to know what makes a good leader.
01:01 So today, we have with us a very special guest,
01:04 someone I met and fell in love with immediately in New York,
01:08 her name is Doris Gothard.
01:09 She has a degree in pure mathematics
01:12 with a minor in engineering.
01:14 And she was a corporate manager
01:16 for General Motors Electronic Data Systems.
01:20 So she's got all of this experience
01:22 in the corporate world.
01:24 And you will not believe what she's doing now.
01:26 Besides being so active in her church,
01:28 she is starting her own cookie line.
01:31 And we just got to taste it.
01:33 Doris, thank you so much for joining us today.
01:35 Oh, you're welcome, Shelley, you're welcome.
01:37 You know, your cookies, you're calling them,
01:40 Can Not Eat Just One CEJO, C-E-J-O.
01:44 And everybody here will attest to the fact that
01:47 that's a great name for your cookie.
01:49 Well, you're a great friend.
01:51 And I could not come to 3ABN Issues and Answers
01:55 without baking something from my heart for you.
01:58 And did you notice that I shaped
02:00 some of the cookies in the shape of valentine.
02:04 Yes, a heart-shaped cookie. You're special, Shelley.
02:06 Thank you so much for having me.
02:08 Oh, well, this is a blessing.
02:10 We want to jump right into our topic today
02:12 because I think you've got
02:14 a lot of good things that we normally don't...
02:17 We haven't had a lot of presentations
02:19 on this type of material.
02:20 And I'm very excited about it because leadership principles
02:23 are something that we need to understand
02:28 what makes a good leader, and if we're not a leader,
02:32 we're a follower
02:34 and we want to follow good leaders even,
02:36 but let's talk about
02:39 your little formula of the 70:20:10.
02:44 I am passionate about this subject of leadership
02:46 because I want to tell you
02:48 that I believe that most of us really are leaders.
02:52 It's like a diamond in the rough.
02:54 We may not think or feel that we're leaders.
02:56 And so for your program today, I sat at my computer
03:00 and I put together my model,
03:03 which I've always used in my leadership experience.
03:06 And I call it the leadership 70:20:10 model.
03:11 And I said if our viewers could just see,
03:13 especially women
03:15 who are heads of their households,
03:17 they are the best leaders that I know of
03:18 in the whole wide world, they multitask,
03:21 they do so many things and they do them well.
03:23 But many of them may have a desire
03:26 to get into leadership
03:28 at the companies where they work today.
03:31 And I think that our talk today
03:33 will give them some additional resources and tools.
03:37 This pie chart, which I call the 70:20:10 of leadership
03:41 is very basic and it's very simple,
03:43 70% of what a hiring leader will be looking for
03:48 if you're interested in applying
03:50 for a leadership position is based on experience.
03:54 It's experience, and 20% is based on relationships.
04:00 So many times it's that relationship
04:02 that you have either inside of the organization,
04:05 whether it's in the community, whether it's in the church,
04:09 or in a corporate environment,
04:10 20% of the key to getting you to the leadership position
04:16 that you're interested in
04:17 is based on those relationships,
04:18 so we can't discount those.
04:21 Education is extremely important.
04:23 But did you know that only 10%
04:27 of the formal education and training
04:30 is really key to the success
04:33 of one getting into that leadership position.
04:35 By all means I want everybody
04:37 in our listening audience to know that
04:38 education is very important.
04:40 But relationships and getting that experience
04:43 is really key and paramount to being a successful leader.
04:47 And that 10% can be just enough to get you the interview
04:50 because many jobs nowadays are saying
04:52 took the education being just 10%,
04:54 that's maybe the door opener to get you in,
04:57 but it is a matter of experience
04:59 that's shared in relationship.
05:00 And interestingly, a lot of youth
05:03 will graduate from college, and I should say young adults,
05:07 will graduate from college...
05:09 Or any age, you know.
05:11 Or any age, and think that because they have a degree,
05:14 they should be able to walk out
05:16 and get into the leadership position.
05:18 But experience, as you said, is what people are looking for.
05:21 So even with a degree,
05:23 you may have to start at the bottom
05:25 and work your way up, generally speaking.
05:27 You're right.
05:29 So define for us what leadership is?
05:32 You've certainly had a lot of experience
05:34 in the corporate world.
05:36 How would you define leadership?
05:39 Well, first, may I begin by sharing with you
05:42 two quotes from an author,
05:45 his name is Joseph Clarence Rost.
05:49 And he said a couple things in his book
05:51 that really stuck with me over a number of years.
05:53 And it was in the chapter where he was actually doing
05:57 a comparison between
05:59 what leadership is versus management.
06:02 Now I think we all know
06:03 leadership has to do with people, we lead people.
06:07 Management has to do with things,
06:10 and so we manage things.
06:11 And so if I may, let me just read
06:13 a couple of these quotes on leadership.
06:15 Here's what he says.
06:17 He says, "Leadership is the activity
06:19 of influencing people
06:22 to cooperation toward some common goal
06:26 which they come to find desirable."
06:29 That's people moving in sync together toward a common goal,
06:35 a goal which they find desirable to them.
06:38 And then the second quote,
06:41 "Leadership is an influence relationship
06:44 among leaders," not just leaders,
06:46 this is the part that I like,
06:48 "It's an influence relationship among leaders and followers."
06:52 So if there's a leader,
06:54 there are always going to be followers.
06:56 "Leaders and followers
06:58 who intend real challenges
07:01 that reflect their mutual purposes."
07:04 So this speaks volume
07:06 because whenever a leader is leading a team,
07:09 if the team doesn't know the purpose of the team,
07:13 then we have a problem from the beginning.
07:16 So leadership is very, very important
07:18 not only for the team members
07:21 but it's important to know what the purpose is,
07:22 and we'll talk a little bit more about that
07:24 as we move forward.
07:25 And wouldn't you agree that of course IQ is important
07:28 in a leader to be intelligent,
07:30 but EQ, IQ being your intelligence quotient,
07:33 EQ the emotional quotient,
07:37 how well you relate with people,
07:39 how well you can read people,
07:42 the EQ is more important to your influence,
07:47 wouldn't you agree?
07:48 I agree wholeheartedly.
07:50 As a matter of fact, I think you touched on it
07:51 just a moment ago.
07:53 May I share with you a saying?
07:55 This was a saying internal to the corporate environment
07:58 where I spent almost 30 years working.
08:02 IQ will get you hired,
08:07 but EQ, that emotional quotient,
08:10 how well you control your emotions
08:13 without blowing it up,
08:14 how well you work with other people
08:17 that are in your job environment,
08:20 that will get you promoted.
08:23 So if there's someone who really
08:25 wants to get promoted,
08:27 you think that you deserve to be promoted,
08:30 I'd say your IQ is probably in balance, but your EQ,
08:35 you might need to do a little work on that.
08:37 Yes, that's an excellent quote.
08:39 May I share
08:40 a couple of other things? Sure.
08:41 I've also learned in my leadership career
08:45 to keep my IQ in check...
08:48 my EQ in check and in balance.
08:52 And I've learned the value of building good relationships
08:56 as long as I keep my EQ in check.
08:59 So what do you mean EQ in check?
09:01 EQ, that's the emotional quotient
09:04 that I just spoke about.
09:05 But what do you mean by keeping it in check?
09:07 It means that you may not always get what you want,
09:12 you may want a yes from a leader,
09:15 but you may not always get that as an answer.
09:18 Your attitude, your leadership attitude
09:20 about how you receive that information,
09:22 if it's not good news,
09:24 you didn't get the promotion, you know,
09:26 you didn't get to take a trip
09:28 that you thought was valuable and important,
09:30 knowing how to have the right leadership attitude
09:34 so that your emotions are in balance.
09:37 You don't blow up.
09:39 You don't feel that
09:41 you are the victim in the situation.
09:43 So that's being emotionally in balance, that's what EQ is.
09:46 That's good.
09:47 What else, what other suggestions would you give
09:49 to someone who is interested in leadership?
09:53 I made a list of about six things.
09:56 So I'm just going to read to you
09:57 this list of six things.
09:59 The first one is you must know who you are
10:03 and you've got to know what you believe.
10:05 The second thing that you need to be is an optimist
10:09 because there is a big difference between
10:11 an optimist and a pessimist,
10:13 and we'll talk about that in just a moment.
10:15 You must have, as a leader, strength and courage.
10:21 Strength and courage. That is important. Amen.
10:24 More importantly for the leader than anyone else perhaps.
10:28 You must have strength and courage
10:30 to make those tough decisions.
10:32 Leaders all over the world,
10:35 whether it's the president of the United States,
10:37 whether it's a pastor... A single mother.
10:39 A single mother, that's true,
10:41 who is the single head of household
10:43 in her own home,
10:44 there are always challenging situations
10:46 that we're faced with,
10:48 and there are sometimes some very tough decisions
10:51 that we have to make,
10:52 so I say that leaders must have strength and courage
10:57 to make those difficult and tough
10:59 and challenging decisions.
11:02 Another thing that I would share would be,
11:06 have you heard the expression "Practice makes perfect"?
11:09 Can you imagine someone, let's just say in church,
11:12 I can't imagine, you know,
11:14 someone standing up to do a sermon
11:16 without having done some preparation.
11:19 And I've believe practice, practice, practice
11:23 prepares an individual.
11:25 So in the area of leadership, it takes preparation.
11:29 And you get the preparation through practice.
11:33 Another is that you as a leader need to have a good team.
11:37 One thing I can say in the few hours
11:40 that I have been here on the grounds,
11:42 these beautiful grounds here at 3ABN,
11:44 and having met some of the employees that work here,
11:47 what a tremendous team you have here.
11:51 We do.
11:52 Everyone, gracious and kind and welcoming.
11:55 So every leader, I can't think of a leader that would say
11:58 that he or she would not desire to have a good team.
12:01 So as a leader, if you had the privilege,
12:04 as I had for so many years, to hire people,
12:06 now that's the joyous part, hiring a person, hiring people,
12:11 that's fun, that's joy,
12:14 but what a leader has to understand
12:16 is that there may come a day
12:18 when there is a situation that's challenging,
12:22 and that means that the leader,
12:23 if you hired the person,
12:25 you had the strength and courage to hire,
12:26 then guess what, you also have to have
12:29 the strength and courage to fire.
12:32 No leader that I have ever met, including myself,
12:36 has ever enjoyed
12:38 having to separate anyone from the company,
12:40 involuntary separation from any position,
12:44 well, the voluntary or paid is not a welcoming feed.
12:47 So I would mention that the last thing is
12:50 for a leader, communication is key.
12:55 Clear communications.
12:56 I hope these will be helpful.
12:58 But from my experience,
13:00 these six things have been really keys to the success
13:03 in my leadership career.
13:05 And when you think of the people
13:08 that you have worked with, particularly in your teams,
13:12 what have you learned about them
13:14 that makes them either good leaders or good followers?
13:18 Whenever a person meets you for the first time...
13:22 And thank you, you paid me a wonderful compliment,
13:25 you said you liked me from the beginning
13:27 when you met me several years ago in New York.
13:30 But we are all in the process of assessing one another.
13:35 Before the person speaks, visually,
13:37 we take a look at them, you know,
13:39 how they dress and how they carry themselves,
13:42 and there are continuous assessments going on.
13:45 But here's what I've learned,
13:46 and I'll speak for me personally,
13:49 I have learned
13:51 that no matter how well
13:53 I'm able to assess other individuals
13:56 or a situation
13:57 that my human assessments are always...
14:00 Flawed. Flawed.
14:02 They are incomplete.
14:04 God is the only person that I know
14:06 that can get it right the first time.
14:08 And so I think as human beings
14:10 we should be more open
14:12 to understanding that we're human
14:15 and that no matter how we assess people
14:17 that are on our teams, people in the community,
14:21 even members of our household, that is always incomplete.
14:25 May I tell you a couple of other things?
14:28 Okay, I have learned that I should try to understand
14:32 another person's point of view.
14:34 Have you ever been in a meeting and others were sharing
14:37 and then you may have sensed that
14:39 maybe the person that they were speaking to
14:41 wasn't really truly listening, you know,
14:43 not really listening to them, let me tell you,
14:46 there are hidden treasures
14:49 in every single one of God's creations,
14:52 every person I believe has a point of view.
14:56 And for the leader, it depends upon
14:59 whether or not you create,
15:01 based upon your leadership style,
15:03 an environment where people are comfortable
15:07 to share their point of view.
15:09 If I am chairing a meeting
15:11 or when I was working in corporate America
15:13 and I was holding my own staff meetings
15:15 and things like that,
15:16 I would pay attention to the dynamics in the room,
15:19 and I'll probably mention that again,
15:21 because there are verbal and nonverbal communications
15:24 that are going on in the room,
15:26 every person that's seated at the table
15:28 has a view, they have a point of view
15:31 about whatever you're talking about.
15:33 And it takes that leadership strength and skill
15:38 to be able to have that person feel comfortable enough
15:42 that they will share their point of view.
15:43 And then after having heard what their view is
15:46 and their point of view is, validate them,
15:49 encourage them for sharing,
15:51 and then try to be open as a leader
15:54 that just as you as a leader have a point of view,
15:57 you don't know everything
15:59 and that there could be something
16:01 that could contribute to the overall success of the team
16:05 if you were more open
16:07 to another person's point of view.
16:08 Something that I particularly enjoy
16:11 are brainstorming session
16:13 and the ground rules we lay down are, you know,
16:17 nobody's going to be made fun of
16:20 because of their ideas,
16:23 we just, anything that anyone says,
16:25 we'll slap it on a board and say, you know, that's good,
16:29 that's good, we may never use it,
16:30 and sometimes people will say something that you think,
16:33 that didn't make any sense,
16:35 but often, if you're listening to other people,
16:39 often the Lord leads through a process
16:41 and you will actually springboard,
16:44 some of the craziest ideas
16:47 have been the segue
16:48 to arrive at another beautiful, wonderful idea.
16:53 So God does give everyone something to bring to the table
16:57 and they should be listened...
16:59 Yes, and let me say,
17:00 I admire what you have just said
17:01 because I believe that people, and this is most people,
17:07 most people do the best they can
17:10 on any team given the set of circumstances
17:14 that they are faced with.
17:15 And so what I've learned to do as a leader
17:17 is to trust a little bit more,
17:19 trust people to take the leadership.
17:23 You know, just because
17:24 you're in a leadership position,
17:26 the position doesn't define who you are,
17:28 and the leader is well served
17:31 when you allow others to share their points of view.
17:34 And I've also learned that with the strength and courage
17:39 that comes along with being an effective leader,
17:42 preparation is the key.
17:45 Prepare, prepare, prepare, I'm just repeating them,
17:47 that's key too.
17:49 Communicate, communicate, communicate,
17:52 one of the areas that will determine
17:54 whether or not an organization
17:56 or a team or a group or a church
17:59 is being affected either in ministry
18:01 or with whatever service they are providing
18:04 is how well they are communicating
18:07 with those individuals
18:08 that are a part of the organization,
18:10 that are a part of the team, so clear communication is key.
18:13 And communication,
18:15 the attitude of the communicator
18:17 has to be important as well, does it not?
18:19 That's right. That's right.
18:20 Because if you have a pessimistic communicator,
18:23 you're going to run into trouble.
18:25 That's true, that's true.
18:26 So how important do you think attitude is
18:29 toward being a good leader?
18:31 Well, I think, let's talk about,
18:33 you brought up pessimistic,
18:35 and I wanted to touch on that a bit today
18:38 because attitude is very, very key to the leader.
18:43 If the leader has an attitude of I know everything,
18:49 then that leader ceases to grow.
18:51 I don't know if you've ever experienced that
18:53 in your leadership career,
18:56 but there really are some leaders
18:57 who feel like, you know, I've got it all, I know it all,
19:00 and there's nothing more that I can learn.
19:03 I know this subject, I know this job,
19:05 I know it so well until I got this.
19:08 I say that the attitude of that leader
19:12 closes the door for any growth to take place
19:17 in that leader's ability to inspire
19:20 and help develop other leaders to grow.
19:23 Oh, absolutely.
19:24 That shuts the team down.
19:27 Right, one attitude
19:28 is the attitude of being a pessimist
19:33 and the attitude of being an optimist.
19:36 Let's talk about the differences
19:37 between the two. Okay.
19:39 I'd like to think that I'm a leader
19:40 who is an optimist.
19:42 No doubt.
19:44 Because an optimist is open,
19:46 they are interested in another person's idea
19:50 or point of view
19:52 because they want to continue to grow.
19:54 I don't think I will ever be at an age
19:58 where I'll say it's just over,
20:00 I'm too old to learn and grow.
20:03 My age is progressively moving forward.
20:06 I've had a lot of experiences. Praise the Lord.
20:08 But praise the Lord for all of that.
20:09 Consider the alternative... I am still growing.
20:11 I'm still growing as a leader.
20:13 An optimist would say that I see challenges
20:19 as opportunities, as possibilities.
20:23 A pessimist would view any challenge
20:26 as so pervasive that it was permanent.
20:30 And that attitude prevents
20:32 any ability for any growth or development.
20:34 Yes, amen.
20:36 You know, what I find, I'm also an optimist,
20:38 as is my husband,
20:40 and I have found always
20:42 I like to be around optimistic people.
20:45 When something bad happens,
20:46 they're able to recover more rapidly
20:48 and they are people who are overcomers.
20:52 But now we've all been in a position
20:55 where we have worked with someone
20:58 who was supposed to be our leader
21:00 but they didn't have good qualities, what are...
21:04 You brought some precious little drawings with you,
21:07 some little line drawings
21:09 that someone did for you of some bad leaders.
21:11 Could we run through that bad leadership qualities?
21:14 Yes, we can.
21:16 And let me just do a lead-in statement
21:18 to these pencil drawings
21:20 that were done by one of my husband's employees
21:23 on the General Motors account.
21:25 I remember a statement
21:28 that the late President John F. Kennedy
21:30 made about leadership,
21:33 and I've used it many, many times
21:34 in my leadership presentations, and he said that,
21:37 "Leadership and learning
21:40 are indispensable to each other."
21:43 In other words, to be an effective leader,
21:45 we need both, you need to be a leader,
21:47 yes, but you need to be open to learning.
21:50 And so unfortunately,
21:52 there are some behaviors
21:55 that perhaps you've seen in leadership
21:57 and I've seen a few too that we should avoid.
22:01 And I'm talking to the young leaders
22:02 that are in our viewing audience
22:04 and to those who may desire to be in a leadership role
22:07 or who may currently be in a leadership position.
22:10 There are some behaviors that we can work very hard
22:14 and pray very hard to avoid.
22:15 And so may we share a couple of those now?
22:20 The first is the leader,
22:22 and of course this is a pencil drawing,
22:24 the first is a leader who stifles creativity,
22:28 the leader should want everyone on the team to be creative,
22:33 to think outside of the box,
22:35 and to bring all of those ideas to the table.
22:38 And these people are usually micromanagers, are they not?
22:41 Yes, they are. Yes, they are.
22:43 And further, I would say, that here is what they do,
22:46 they hold the team back.
22:49 And that could be even broader.
22:51 They could hold even the whole organization back
22:55 when they stifle,
22:57 when their leadership style stifles the creativity
23:00 of those individuals that are working on the team,
23:02 they repress.
23:04 This is a leadership behavior
23:08 that I recommend that we should avoid,
23:10 and I think you'd agree, I recommend.
23:11 Absolutely. Yes.
23:13 Here's the second one,
23:14 and I think we're only doing a couple of these drawings
23:17 because of the time constraints today,
23:19 the drunk-with-power leader.
23:23 I'm not talking about drunk from any liquid
23:28 or any substance like that
23:30 but just with the idea of the position
23:34 that they hold.
23:36 This term I've used that they are perhaps drunk
23:39 with the power of the position that they hold,
23:42 every leader has a certain span of control,
23:45 which comes with it a certain amount of power.
23:47 You're effective based upon
23:49 how well you understand the use of that power
23:51 and seldom should you ever have to use
23:54 the full power of your leadership.
23:57 In those instances when you have to use it,
23:59 you guard that with great care.
24:02 If you ever have to say, I always say,
24:04 I used to say to my employees,
24:06 that if I have to remind you that I'm the leader,
24:09 then there's a real problem here.
24:13 You remember? Absolutely.
24:14 The leader should lead in such a way with a behavior,
24:18 a Christ-like behavior that he or she
24:21 would never have to say I'm the boss or I'm the leader.
24:26 And if you ever came to that crossroad,
24:29 then you and the employee should know,
24:32 and I would always reveal that information
24:35 so that if they ever heard me say that,
24:36 and I can't think of very many times
24:38 when I ever had to remind someone
24:39 that I was the boss or I was the leader.
24:41 That's a real, real, real problem,
24:43 so I believe in having positive behaviors
24:46 so that the leader is like a member of the team.
24:49 You are a part of the team.
24:50 And that's even true in a parenting position.
24:55 When you have to remind the child because I said so,
24:58 I'm your momma, then, you know,
25:00 you're actually breaking down communication over that.
25:03 Absolutely. Okay.
25:04 Do we have time for one or two more?
25:07 Okay, how about the manage-through-fear leader?
25:11 Just because you have people on the team
25:14 that are doing what they've been asked to do,
25:18 it doesn't mean that it's the choice,
25:21 they could actually be functioning
25:23 as the result of some fear that they have.
25:25 And so I've said about this kind of leader,
25:27 this kind of behavior from a leader
25:30 that it's fear based
25:31 and that the leader has created a fear-based environment.
25:37 And in a fear based-environment
25:40 that the leader has created for the employees
25:42 that are working in that environment
25:44 or even in the home
25:46 where there are children in the home,
25:48 if the parents have created an environment
25:50 that's fear based,
25:53 rarely does that lead to productivity,
25:55 rarely will that lead
25:57 to the kind of positive behaviors
25:59 that you would like to see
26:00 either the children or the individuals,
26:02 you know, who are working on the job
26:05 or in the church or in any organization.
26:08 I think these are so good.
26:10 I know you have several more,
26:11 but we're out of time for those.
26:14 But let me ask you this question,
26:16 if you could sum it up in a nutshell,
26:19 what do you think is the most important thing
26:22 you could instill,
26:24 if you're talking to someone who wants to be a leader,
26:26 you have a lot of leadership experience,
26:28 you're serving on your church board,
26:32 and you have many other boards that you serve on,
26:34 what would you say to someone,
26:36 "If you want to be a leader, do this"?
26:40 I'd say every person's view is important,
26:43 and I would say be a leader
26:46 like the conductor of an orchestra
26:49 because good leadership is like directing a fine musical group,
26:55 whether choir or an orchestra.
26:57 And then I would leave them with three Es.
27:00 My three Es for effective leadership are
27:03 encourage, enable, and empower, so...
27:08 That's really good, encourage, enable, and empower.
27:12 Thank you so much for being here, Doris.
27:13 We want you to come back,
27:15 we want to talk a little to some topics
27:17 that are related to this.
27:18 But we just appreciate you being here so much today.
27:21 And for those of you at home, I hope that you're listening
27:24 and sharing this information with others.
27:26 Think of how you can apply this encourage...
27:29 Enable and empower, three Es. Enable and empower.
27:33 Even in your church situations, maybe in pathfinders,
27:36 or at home,
27:38 our prayer for you is that
27:39 the grace of our Lord and Savior
27:41 Jesus Christ will be with you,
27:42 the love of the Father,
27:44 and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit
27:45 today and always.