Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Jennifer Schwirzer
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000454A
00:29 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
00:30 and welcome again to Issues and Answers.
00:33 Boy, we've got an issue today that is something...
00:37 It's a hot topic and...
00:38 Because it is something that is happening so much
00:43 in not only in America but across the world.
00:45 And what we're gonna be talking about is loneliness,
00:49 but more importantly that's the issue,
00:52 the answer is love so from loneliness to love.
00:55 And returning with us today is our special guest.
00:58 We're always glad
00:59 when Jennifer Jill Schwirzer is with us.
01:02 She is a licensed professional counselor,
01:04 she is an author and a musician.
01:08 And, Jennifer, thank you so much for coming back.
01:11 It's a pleasure to be here.
01:12 Tell us a little bit about your practice in Philadelphia?
01:15 I have an office in my home
01:18 and I do face to face counseling.
01:21 I also do quite a bit of distance counseling.
01:25 I'm a Seventh-day Adventist
01:26 and what I find is that there aren't enough
01:29 Seventh-day Adventist counselors to kind of meet
01:31 the needs of the Seventh-day Adventist people.
01:33 And so Adventists will go out of their way
01:35 to find an Adventist counselor.
01:37 And so that's where distance counseling comes in
01:39 because it's not always possible
01:41 to see people face to face.
01:42 So I do counseling through Skype and phone.
01:45 The Skype is what I was just getting ready to ask you.
01:47 That's interesting. Yeah, FaceTime, Google chat.
01:51 I've had one situation
01:52 where I had someone in Afghanistan,
01:54 and some one in New Zealand, and we would meet together.
01:56 Yeah, it's crazy.
01:58 Well, it just amazes me
02:01 what you can do with technology today.
02:03 But, you know, I think that technology today
02:05 is part of the problem and we'll get into that,
02:08 because I think it seems to me the more...
02:10 It's a double-edged sword.
02:11 It is a double-edged sword.
02:13 And it seems that the more technology we've gotten,
02:15 people are beginning to with all the social media accounts,
02:18 people are artificially connected
02:20 and loneliness is on the rise.
02:21 That's right.
02:22 But tell us about Jennifer Bricker?
02:24 Okay, I want to start off this with a really cool story,
02:28 and that is this young woman named Jennifer Bricker,
02:31 who was rejected by her birth family
02:34 because of the disability that she had and was adopted.
02:38 And her adoptive parents,
02:39 the Brickers had one rule in their home is that,
02:42 and that was that you could never say, "I can't."
02:45 And so Jennifer was this very feisty,
02:47 very driven individual
02:48 and she began to excel in sports.
02:51 And specifically she excelled at gymnastics.
02:54 In fact, she became the state champion
02:56 in Illinois for gymnastics.
02:59 And this was doubly remarkable because Jennifer had no legs,
03:03 that was why she had been rejected by her birth family.
03:05 Wow. That gave me chills listening to that.
03:07 Isn't that amazing?
03:08 And you should see the footage,
03:09 put that in a YouTube search engine
03:12 and look at some of the footage of her flipping
03:14 and doing all kinds of crazy things,
03:16 she's amazing.
03:18 But the story goes on.
03:20 She at a certain point as an adolescent
03:23 became very, very admiring of a certain gymnast
03:26 named Dominique Moceanu.
03:28 She was part of the American team that won in 1996.
03:32 And she especially loved this Dominique Moceanu
03:35 because she seemed to have a certain spark to her
03:37 that Jennifer really related to.
03:39 And one day she asked her mother, "Mom, you know,
03:42 I'm curious about my birth family."
03:44 The mother pulled the file on the adoption
03:46 and it was a closed adoption,
03:47 but there had been a clerical error
03:49 and the mother discovered the girl's
03:52 or the Jennifer's birth name was Moceanu.
03:55 And in that instant Jennifer knew
03:57 that Dominique Moceanu was her sister.
03:59 Oh, my God.
04:00 Isn't that amazing? Yes.
04:02 And so she contacted her and they connected
04:05 and there's a third sister
04:07 that looks even more like Jennifer
04:09 than Danielle that even though
04:10 there was some resemblance there too.
04:11 And, of course, it's a beautiful story
04:13 of reuniting with a lost sibling.
04:16 And I think of us, Shelley,
04:17 and I think of how really we're all long lost siblings,
04:20 aren't we, because we come from the same parents.
04:22 And we have this drive and this need to belong.
04:25 And that need for belonging is something
04:27 that God has built into us
04:28 because we were made in God's image,
04:30 and God is love.
04:32 And we tend to think of God's love
04:33 as love extending from God upon His creation.
04:37 But if you think about it, God's attribute of love,
04:41 His essence is love,
04:42 and so it preexisted the creation.
04:45 So even within God,
04:46 there is love between the Father,
04:48 Son, and Holy Spirit.
04:50 And God built that same principle of love into us,
04:55 the crowning act of His creation.
04:57 And so we have that same capacity
04:59 for very deep intimate attachment.
05:02 And if we don't have those attachments,
05:04 we don't thrive well.
05:06 And so we are really long lost brothers and sisters
05:08 that are in the process by God's grace of learning
05:11 how to love and be loved.
05:14 Very interesting,
05:15 doing little study on the Trinity lately.
05:17 And as I'm thinking about this in terms of relationship,
05:22 what I realize is that
05:23 the number three is very illustrative
05:27 of the principle of love.
05:29 If you think about it,
05:30 human relationships that start out as dyadic,
05:33 two in the relationship tend to branch out into triads.
05:38 Man meets woman, they marry, they fall in love, get married,
05:41 and they have what?
05:42 Typically have a child.
05:43 Then the parent, child relationship
05:45 eventually becomes a triad
05:46 when another child enters the picture.
05:49 And so what we see in human life
05:50 is that dyads often branch out into triads.
05:54 And what's cool about triadic relationships
05:57 is that they are an excellent opportunity
05:59 to manifest true love.
06:01 Because when I'm in a triadic relationship,
06:03 I have to appreciate and be happy
06:05 about the love between the other two.
06:08 As soon as I feel possessive or jealous,
06:09 then that love is ruined.
06:11 But in a healthy triadic relationship,
06:13 I'm happy about the love between the other two,
06:15 and they're happy about the love
06:17 between me and the one that they are left out of.
06:19 And that is true of the Trinity as well.
06:22 We see this whole teaching of the Trinity
06:24 throughout scripture,
06:25 we see in the Old Testament, you know,
06:28 speaking of God using three appellations of God,
06:33 Holy, Holy, Holy or the Lord bless you,
06:36 the Lord keep you,
06:38 the Lord make His countenance shine upon you.
06:40 We see these triadic passages often in very general terms
06:43 in the Old Testament.
06:45 And then in the New Testament,
06:46 we see them put out in more detail
06:48 where the Father, Son,
06:49 and Holy Spirit are specifically identified.
06:52 And so we see that
06:53 teaching of the Trinity throughout Scripture.
06:56 And then we notice something
06:58 when Jesus is on the cross, He says,
07:01 "How many times my God, my God."
07:05 And so what that says to me
07:06 is that He's now left out of the Trinity
07:08 because He's bearing the sin of the world.
07:11 And so the cost of our belonging was His exclusion.
07:17 Because the only way
07:18 that we could be brought back into heaven was
07:21 and be in the presence of the Holy God
07:23 as sinners was in Christ.
07:25 And so He became what Corinthians calls
07:28 the last Adam or the second Adam,
07:30 the representative of the human race
07:32 and because of His representation
07:34 of the human race,
07:36 we can be brought back into heaven in Christ.
07:40 But not just into heaven,
07:41 but into the most elite family in heaven,
07:43 the trinity itself.
07:45 And I want to clarify, you just said that,
07:47 but I just want to clarify a point.
07:49 What you were not saying
07:51 that He was left out of the trinity permanent.
07:53 Permanently, no.
07:54 It was while He was on the cross.
07:56 He experienced the exclusion
07:58 that our sin should have caused us to experience.
08:01 And He became sin for us,
08:03 who knew no sin so that we could become
08:04 the righteousness of God in Him.
08:07 You know, when you really think about it,
08:08 perfect love...
08:10 When we think of God's essence of love,
08:12 anytime it's love just between two individuals,
08:15 there is something,
08:18 a motivation that I'm going to please you
08:21 because you pleased me.
08:22 But when you have a third person in there,
08:26 then suddenly that changes the balance
08:29 and everybody has to...
08:30 As you said, appreciate the love
08:32 between the other two,
08:33 allow and nurtured the love
08:35 between the other two without any jealousy.
08:37 So I think perfect love,
08:39 you know, J.D. and I were not able to have children,
08:41 and I wanted six.
08:43 But you have nurtured a lot of people.
08:44 Oh, we do.
08:46 Absolutely, with the lot of spiritual children,
08:47 but I wanted six children.
08:49 I mean, I just wanted babies so badly.
08:52 And I think that even though we do nurture others
08:55 and we have spiritual children.
08:57 I still think that there's something
08:58 that would be different
09:00 had we had a child in our home for those,
09:03 you know, that period of 18 to 20 years
09:05 while they're growing.
09:06 Because I think that you really learn
09:08 how to love in a deeper level
09:10 because of the love you give to a child.
09:13 It changed my life having children.
09:15 Yeah, really, really, really mellowed me a lot.
09:18 And it helped me to become less selfish.
09:20 But I say every couple should have children,
09:22 it's just that some people don't have natural children
09:24 or even adoptive children, they have spiritual children.
09:26 But God calls us to take the wealth of our relationship
09:30 with one another and share with others.
09:31 Oh, absolutely, I believe that 100%.
09:34 So, very powerful.
09:35 That I love what you've said about the Trinity
09:39 because that is so true that,
09:43 you know, you see that the Holy Spirit
09:45 always gives glory to God or to Jesus,
09:48 Jesus gives glory to the Father,
09:50 and the Father says, He'll give all things to His Son.
09:52 So it's just amazing.
09:54 Isn't that powerful? The humility.
09:56 That's how I think the humility of the Trinity.
09:58 Constantly giving to one another.
10:00 And God has built that capacity for unselfishness into us.
10:05 We are made in His image.
10:07 And if we live out of sync with that design,
10:10 it brings harm upon us and we start having problems
10:14 and loneliness is one of them.
10:15 Now, let's talk about loneliness
10:17 because you would think with all the social media
10:20 that people are being more connected.
10:22 I'd just say being artificially connected.
10:24 We were in a mall one day,
10:25 saw three little girls walking down the mall.
10:28 And two of them were just having
10:30 the best time interacting,
10:32 and the third little girl was just like this,
10:34 and we saw them about 30 minutes later,
10:37 there she was, and another 30 minutes.
10:38 And I told my husband, I said,
10:40 "You know, two are having a wonderful time
10:43 and this other girl is out with them
10:44 and she's just artificially connected,
10:47 she's not connecting with her friends there,
10:48 she is just talking on her Twitter account
10:51 or whatever it was that she was doing.
10:53 Oblivious to her surroundings.
10:55 And it seems like people...
10:57 We're hearing more and more calls coming into 3ABN.
11:01 It seems that the faster paced our life becomes,
11:05 the more technology that we have
11:08 which increases that pace.
11:10 It seems like there's a lot more loneliness.
11:12 I think that's true.
11:13 In fact, I'm drawing from the work of a man
11:16 named Dr. John Cacioppo out of the University of Chicago,
11:20 who is kind of the twine of loneliness research
11:23 if you want to call it that.
11:25 And he says that it's up from 20% in the 80s
11:28 he estimates to 40% now.
11:31 That's amazing.
11:32 Yeah, I personally corresponded with him
11:34 and he says he believes that
11:35 loneliness is pandemic at this point.
11:37 And it's ironic that it has pretty much correlated
11:42 with the increase in social media.
11:43 So the more technically and technologically
11:46 connected we are,
11:48 it seems the more disconnected we are
11:49 in terms of actual substantial relationships.
11:53 So what are some of the contributors
11:56 other than social media in being artificially connect?
12:00 What are some of the contributors to loneliness?
12:02 Yeah, I want to put this in a very positive light here.
12:05 God creates opportunities for relationship building
12:09 throughout the life cycle, if you can call it that.
12:12 So we're born...
12:14 And the first relationship
12:15 is to what we call a primary caregiver
12:18 which is typically a mother.
12:19 And the brain literally gets formatted
12:23 for love relationships in that first connection
12:27 that we have to our mother or whoever it happens to be,
12:30 and then the father has his own addition that he makes,
12:33 and then siblings make an addition,
12:35 and as life goes on God keeps introducing
12:38 and reintroducing new opportunities
12:41 for different kinds of relationship.
12:43 It's my belief that, you know, it's true that we miss out
12:46 if we don't have really great parenting
12:48 or really good bond with our parents,
12:50 but God constantly introduces new opportunities for us
12:54 to then recover from that loss
12:56 and learn again how to love and be loved.
12:58 You see God has built resiliency into human beings.
13:02 So that the lens that I like to look at this through is,
13:05 what can we do now
13:07 to try to come out of loneliness to love?
13:10 And one of the most important things that I can see,
13:13 that we can do is be a member of a church.
13:16 There are reams of research
13:18 that show that church attendance
13:21 and involvement is good for people.
13:24 Even with all the dysfunction in churches,
13:27 and some of the maybe false doctrine
13:28 that's being preached, you know,
13:30 still in spite of all that, there are very positive things
13:34 that come out of church involvement.
13:36 In fact, there's research
13:37 that women experience less depression
13:40 if they're involved in church.
13:41 There's a piece of research that was done on Hispanics
13:43 that showed that they had better health habits,
13:46 if they were involved in church.
13:47 There was a research that was done that showed that
13:50 if mothers were involved in church,
13:52 their adolescent children did better
13:54 even if the children weren't involved in church.
13:57 And there's research on an elderly,
13:59 senior citizens that shows that the quality of fellowship
14:03 or social engagement within church
14:06 is better for them
14:07 than the same amount of social engagement
14:09 outside of the church context.
14:11 That's fascinating. Isn't that amazing?
14:13 I mean, there are reams and reams of research
14:15 on the benefits of church involvement.
14:17 Another piece of research
14:18 shows that senior citizens do well in church
14:22 not just because of what other people do for them,
14:24 but because they have opportunities
14:26 to do for others.
14:27 If you think about it,
14:28 you never become useless in God's family
14:31 because no matter how old and decrepit you may get,
14:35 you can still pray for people, and you can still nurture them,
14:37 and give them your wisdom.
14:38 We have a woman in our church named Fashtai
14:40 who marched with Martin Luther King back
14:42 in the day,
14:43 and she's just a fountain of wisdom and encouragement,
14:45 and she's 94 years old now,
14:47 and just with every passing day she's a little more bent over.
14:50 But thank God for her,
14:51 she's still useful in God's family,
14:54 so I think one of the most important steps
14:56 we can take is to become a member of a church
14:59 and go in determined to learn from God
15:02 how to love and be loved,
15:04 and do what we can to improve that family
15:06 rather than going in and saying,
15:08 "What can the church do for me?"
15:09 Going in and saying,
15:11 "What can I do for this body of believers?"
15:14 And I think you're bringing up an extremely important point
15:16 because to have a friend you must be a friend.
15:20 That's right.
15:21 And it's sometimes there are people
15:23 who have joined the church, who are, will come to church,
15:26 who are very...
15:28 They may be very lonely,
15:29 but they will isolate themselves
15:32 and go sit on the back and they'll come in
15:33 and go out too quickly
15:35 or they don't reach out to say hello to anyone else.
15:38 And they assume if someone hasn't said hello,
15:41 that's sitting next to them, they may assume that,
15:44 "Well, this is not a friendly church,"
15:46 but what they don't know is the person
15:47 sitting next to them is a bashful...
15:49 Just as lonely as they are.
15:50 Or a bashful visitor,
15:52 you know, who's having the same relationship issues
15:58 or struggle that they're having.
15:59 So this is something that don't you feel
16:02 if we're going to overcome loneliness,
16:04 we've got to be able to go out on a limb occasionally,
16:08 shake somebody's hand
16:09 or say, "Hi, I'm new to the church."
16:11 Whatever. That's right. That's right.
16:12 So there are two aspects to relationship formation.
16:16 I call it the two aspects
16:17 friend making and friend keeping.
16:20 And friend making involves basic social skills,
16:24 what you do, just what you said a moment ago
16:26 that you engage in a conversation,
16:28 that you break through that little bit of discomfort
16:31 that you have with strangers,
16:32 and you engage and show an interest in those people,
16:35 and you learn how to have conversations,
16:37 it don't have to be deep conversations,
16:39 but meaningful and helpful conversations with people.
16:44 And you take an interest in them
16:45 and hope that they'll take a corresponding interest in you
16:48 and that's friend making.
16:50 Friend keeping involves being able to resolve conflict
16:54 which is taking the relationship
16:55 to an even deeper level.
16:57 And that involves really being able to talk
17:00 about the relationship itself.
17:02 Really the deepest level of communication
17:04 in a relationship
17:06 is being able to talk about the relationship itself
17:09 in a productive and redemptive way.
17:11 And once you open that work room
17:14 where you can actually talk about the relationship itself,
17:17 you can go back to that work room any time.
17:19 All right, so give us some examples
17:21 because that could seem vague to someone.
17:23 Oh, man. Okay, local church.
17:25 Okay, I've been worshipping
17:27 with these people for a long time
17:29 and there's a particular person in the church
17:31 that seems irritated with me on a regular basis.
17:36 The ability to sit down with that person and say,
17:39 "You know, it just seems like there's some tension
17:41 in our relationship,
17:42 is there something that I did to contribute to that?
17:46 Do you want to talk to me about it?
17:47 Is there something you need to say to me?"
17:49 It takes a lot of courage
17:50 to have a conversation like that,
17:52 but often those conversations are the most rewarding
17:55 and that person
17:57 because they know that we are going to be
18:00 really brutally honest with them
18:02 even to our own discomfort,
18:04 they're gonna trust us,
18:06 they know what to expect from us.
18:07 They know, "If that person has an issue with me,
18:09 they're gonna come to me about it,
18:10 they're not gonna talking to someone else.
18:12 So if we be willing to put up with the discomfort
18:16 that sometimes comes into relationships
18:18 and just be honest with one another
18:20 and be in the moment with that person
18:21 and say, "Look, is there something here
18:24 we need to talk about?
18:25 Let's work this out together."
18:27 A lot of times those kind of conversations
18:29 pay huge dividends.
18:30 Amen. Amen. Yeah.
18:32 And that's the way God would have us to do it,
18:34 is to go first to our brother and talk about that.
18:38 And what we have with social media
18:39 is people relating on a very, very surface level.
18:43 What often happens with social media
18:44 is people put their best image out there, you know.
18:49 And people will look at social media
18:51 and they'll compare the reality of their life
18:54 with all the warts and all the flaws
18:56 with the polished exterior of someone else's life.
18:59 And they'll start comparing themselves
19:00 and get very discouraged.
19:02 So some of my clients I tell them,
19:04 "If you want to get well,
19:05 if you want to get over depression,
19:07 you've got to get off social media."
19:08 And some of them I say,
19:10 "If you want to get out of this isolative state you're in,
19:12 you need to set up a Facebook account."
19:14 So it's different for each person.
19:16 Social media doesn't have to cause loneliness,
19:19 but it often does if it's not used well.
19:21 Okay. Yeah.
19:23 So what are some of the other contributors to loneliness?
19:26 I would say that people that are raised in environments
19:30 where they didn't learn good communication
19:31 and relationship building skills
19:34 are gonna come into adult life with a disadvantage.
19:37 And the best thing to do in a situation like that
19:40 is to be very honest about it.
19:42 Often the very first meaningful relationship
19:44 people will develop is a professional one,
19:47 where they go to a counselor and they say,
19:49 "Look, I'm having trouble,
19:50 you know, I can't seem to form and hang on to relationships,
19:54 I've been through three divorces,"
19:55 or whatever if they're honest with that professional,
19:58 sometimes they can form
19:59 the first meaningful relationship of their life
20:02 with that professional.
20:04 And they can learn as a result of the counseling process
20:07 that there were certain things in the home of origin
20:09 that set them up for relationship failure,
20:12 and then they can create a plan
20:15 where they can take proactive steps to correct
20:18 what was wrong with their developmental process.
20:20 You know, I am sitting here
20:22 thinking of a variety of people actually,
20:25 but what you just said
20:27 is not just having problems in a marriage,
20:30 say multiple marriages.
20:32 But if someone is having a difficult time
20:36 making and keeping friends, sometimes people,
20:40 they can't get people to be honest enough.
20:42 Sometimes, you know, let's be honest,
20:44 it takes a bold person to be honest
20:48 when someone comes and says, "What's wrong with me,
20:50 nobody likes me, you know, people seem to avoid me."
20:54 You have a tendency sometimes to talk about their good trades
20:59 and apologize for others,
21:01 but whereas if you went to a professional,
21:05 that person might be able to say,
21:07 "Well, let's examine what you're doing,
21:08 what are your communication habits,
21:10 what are the things that you do
21:12 that sabotage a relationship building."
21:16 That's right.
21:17 And often a professional can start there with the person
21:20 and that can become a very meaningful relationship.
21:22 I also encourage people to start with relationships
21:26 that are a little less complicated.
21:29 For instance befriending children
21:30 or befriending the elderly,
21:32 and going and ministering to them
21:33 in a nursing home or whatever.
21:35 It's good.
21:36 So fairly straightforward, clear relationship,
21:38 you're just going to listen and to encourage them
21:41 or whatever minister to them.
21:42 And I also encourage people to have pets.
21:44 A lot of times pets can reveal
21:47 to people aspects of God's character
21:49 that they've never seen through other human being.
21:51 So start with those easier relationships
21:53 and then try to build on that.
21:54 And church is an excellent place
21:57 to begin that process.
21:59 One of the analogies that the Bible uses
22:01 to describe the church is that it's the family of God.
22:04 And so a lot of times all the things
22:06 that went wrong in our life process so far
22:08 and the relationships
22:10 that didn't work out or the formatting in our brain
22:12 that really didn't get established in childhood,
22:14 we can kind of start from ground zero again
22:17 and kind of get repaired it even within the body of Christ.
22:21 Because there's mothers and fathers in Israel
22:23 that are looking for people to nurture,
22:25 or we can at least have sibling relationships
22:27 where we can work together in service for God.
22:30 So like you said a minute ago, I encourage people not to just
22:33 come and sit and listen and then leave,
22:35 I encourage them to get involved in something
22:37 that involves horizontal relationships with people
22:40 where you're actually working side by side
22:42 or engaging with one another
22:44 in a more kind of a conversational format
22:47 versus just sitting and listening to the preacher
22:49 which can happen in a formal church service.
22:52 And there are many opportunities for that.
22:54 There's something going through my mind
22:55 if I can figure out a way to say...
23:00 Let me see, essentially if we are going to church
23:05 and we're trying to make friends,
23:07 we've got to realize
23:08 that we've got to bring something to the table.
23:10 And what I'm saying is, there are people
23:12 who are so devoid of social interaction
23:19 that they go to church and latch on to someone
23:22 and just nearly suck the life out of them,
23:24 it's what I'm going to say.
23:26 This is not being very tactful.
23:28 But it's absolutely true. But it happens.
23:31 And they will typically go for the person
23:34 who is probably has already got 20 or 30 people
23:38 that already are attached.
23:40 They'll go for the most prominent, visible person.
23:41 The most prominent, visible person. Yeah.
23:43 So one thing is it fair to say that
23:46 if we are wanting to overcome loneliness,
23:50 that what we need to do
23:52 is check out someone else's availability...
23:57 I don't want to say convenience because it sounds bad,
23:59 but we don't want to try to force a relation,
24:03 an inconvenient relationship,
24:04 we need to be there to give
24:07 as much as to receive, is that right?
24:09 People should be honest about their neediness.
24:13 It's not ashamed to be needy, so don't pretend you're not,
24:17 if you're needy, if you're lonely,
24:18 be honest about it.
24:20 But be respectful of other people's boundaries
24:23 and their limitations as human beings so go to them.
24:26 If you think you might get something
24:29 from a relationship with a person,
24:30 be honest about it and ask them,
24:32 "You know, could we take a walk,
24:33 maybe once a month, half hour walk together,
24:36 I would really enjoy getting to know you better
24:39 and gleaning some of your wisdom."
24:41 You know, being upfront and honest
24:43 about what you need with that person
24:45 is gonna make it a lot more manageable for them
24:47 than if you just come and kind of glom on to them.
24:50 I was talking with someone once and I told them
24:52 what you need to do is find someone in the church
24:56 because they were saying...
24:57 You know, my husband and I travel so much
24:59 that we're often not here,
25:00 we just kind of get little bits and pieces,
25:01 and they said, "Well, I feel lonely
25:03 even in the church."
25:04 And I said, "Well, you know, there's probably others
25:06 who feel that way, you need to seek out."
25:08 You know, well, I've tried to connect
25:09 with so and so and so and so,
25:11 they're just too busy for me
25:12 or they think they're too good for me.
25:14 And that's, you know, as soon as someone says
25:16 that it's a red flag coming up.
25:18 But I said, "You know, there's other people
25:19 in the church who are also lonely."
25:22 "Well, I don't want to do.
25:23 They're not as much fun or they're not as exciting."
25:26 You know, and it's kind of...
25:28 These are the things that I feel to overcome loneliness,
25:33 and even which can lead to a depression.
25:36 Often what we need to do is to learn to give of ourselves,
25:40 and then that's when real relationships begin.
25:43 I totally confirm that.
25:45 And another thing that will help
25:47 kind of absorb the weight of a person's neediness
25:50 is a group setting
25:52 where that person's need comes to the group
25:54 and not just to one individual.
25:56 So it's not overwhelming for that individual
25:58 so I think our churches need to have more support groups.
26:01 We just started one connected to my counseling practice
26:05 just last week, and it was amazing,
26:07 it was just a few people.
26:09 We hope to grow it from there, but they're gonna go through it
26:11 like a biblically based 12-step process.
26:14 And people were being very honest
26:15 and open about their struggles and about their need,
26:17 but it was coming on the group, it wasn't just one person
26:20 carrying the weight of that person's problems,
26:24 it was coming upon the group.
26:25 And then, of course, you know,
26:27 put on the altar before God with prayer,
26:29 so that's another way of dealing
26:31 with extreme need in individuals.
26:33 Amen. Well, this is just wonderful information.
26:36 We only have a minute,
26:38 I can't believe how fast our time is going by.
26:40 What would you...?
26:41 How would you like to, a final thought?
26:44 A final thought would be, you know,
26:46 the body of Christ is a family and find a good church.
26:50 Find a church that teaches biblical truth.
26:52 I'm a Seventh-day Adventist
26:53 because I believe the Seventh-day Adventist Church
26:55 teaches biblical truth,
26:57 and we want a clear picture of God,
26:59 that's what doctrine is for us to reveal God to us.
27:03 And so we want good doctrine,
27:04 but we also want a healthy church family.
27:07 Go and do your best and if it doesn't work out,
27:11 go to another church, if that doesn't work out,
27:12 it's probably you.
27:16 Oh, Jennifer, thank you so much for being with us again today.
27:20 And if you want to visit Jennifer's website
27:23 that's at www.jenniferjill.org.
27:29 You know, God created us in His image,
27:32 He is love, and He created us to love and to be loved.
27:36 You don't have to be lonely.
27:38 He never will leave you or forsake you
27:41 and He's got other friends and family out there for you.