Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Yvonne Lewis
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000432
00:01 If we use the words counterfeit and
00:03 Christianity in the same sentence.
00:06 It sounds like an oxymoron,
00:08 like pretty ugly. They're absolutely
00:11 diametrically opposed and yet the New
00:14 Age Movement is in full trading the church
00:17 and it is producing counterfeit Christianity,
00:20 join us today on Issues and Answers.
00:46 You know Jesus said in Matthew 24 and
00:49 I'm gonna begin with verse 4.
00:51 He said, Take heed that no one deceives you.
00:56 For many shall come in my name,
00:59 claiming these people claiming themselves
01:01 I am the Christ and he says and they will
01:05 deceive many. When we look at what's
01:08 happening with the New Age Movement today,
01:11 teaching people that they individually are
01:14 Gods and we see people who rise up as the
01:18 gurus and the heads of these different
01:21 religions that all are these amalgamation
01:26 of religions that make up the New Age
01:28 Movement. We see that there is a real
01:30 problem in the world, but this problem is
01:34 insidiously infiltrating the church and we want
01:39 to introduce you to our special guest is gonna
01:41 talk about that today. She is returning
01:43 again Dr. Yvonne Lewis. Dr. Lewis, how are
01:46 you. Yes, I'm doing great. Praise God.
01:49 I thought of that word insidious. I know.
01:51 We're both sitting here smiling.
01:52 I love it, I love it. You asked the
01:54 Holy Spirit and he answered.
01:57 And to clear our viewers I was having a little
01:59 brain fog, but before we begin,
02:01 I knew there was a word I wanted to use.
02:03 That's it. It is an, in an insidious manner.
02:08 Yeah. That this is infiltrating the church,
02:10 but before, before we begin on this,
02:13 because here we see before us a beautiful lady
02:16 who is known on 3ABN to have a beautiful
02:19 singing voice. She was actually a professional
02:21 singer for many years. A third generation
02:24 Adventist, a natural path and someone who
02:29 has the utmost integrity and character.
02:32 Christian, good Christian girl.
02:35 How did someone like you become involved in
02:40 a minor way in that insidious way
02:43 with the New Age Movement?
02:46 Insidious is the operative word,
02:49 because it was a gradual process.
02:52 I started with nutrition and then Ideology
02:57 and Massage Therapy and Reflexology and
03:02 Acupuncture and I just began to study these
03:07 different modalities feeling that I needed to
03:10 have several modalities under my belt since I
03:13 was practicing a natural path.
03:15 I wanted to know about some different
03:18 Therapeutic modalities that I could use on
03:20 my patients and so I began to study the
03:22 different ones and I began to study
03:25 Acupuncture and Chinese medicine and
03:27 began subsequently became board certified
03:29 in traditional Chinese medicine.
03:31 What woke you up,
03:32 how did God get your attention.
03:35 You know some interesting things
03:37 happened to me when I come to 3ABN or
03:40 when I'm ministering for 3ABN.
03:42 The first thing that was of interest was
03:47 Yolanda Innocent- Palmer and I were
03:49 ministering together. We were ministering
03:51 in New York for 3ABN and we were sharing a
03:54 hotel room. So I was in school at the time for
03:57 Acupuncture. And so I always traveled with
04:01 my needles everywhere I have my needles
04:03 with me. Because people get headaches and
04:05 back pain and that kind of thing and I can help,
04:07 so I had given someone a treatment in the room.
04:12 Because we had friends that come and visit
04:14 while we were in town. And Yolanda came back
04:17 to the room and she saw that I had somebody,
04:20 I have given someone the treatment and I
04:21 had needles and she said no, no don't do that.
04:24 And she said oh I'm gonna sleep in the room.
04:27 Exactly you know your bringing the demonic
04:29 spirits. I looked at her, it was friendly
04:32 because this was my life's work.
04:34 This is what I was studying, this is you know
04:36 something, everything is okay with it.
04:38 So long story short, she and I just,
04:42 we just went back and forth with this and
04:45 she said it was Satan and I thought where is
04:48 this coming from? But it did made me think
04:51 Shelley. It really made me think like am I
04:53 being used by the enemy, is this,
04:56 am I being an instrument of the enemy,
04:57 so it kind of began my questioning some
05:01 things, but still even with that I still,
05:06 I finished school, I got board certified and
05:09 I began to practice it, because I was able
05:11 to rationalize and say you know this is a
05:13 medical modality and Yolanda just didn't
05:15 know what she was talking about.
05:17 Love you Yolanda everything is fine now so.
05:21 She even sent you a book, didn't she?
05:22 She did, she sent me a book and the name
05:25 of this book was Spiritualistic Deceptions
05:28 in Health and Healing written by an Adventist
05:30 doctor. And I looked at the book and I
05:32 thought he doesn't really know what he's
05:35 talking about I mean no offense to him either,
05:37 but I just felt like this was a Western
05:40 practitioner who might not really been,
05:42 appreciated. That's a very good word,
05:45 thank you, appreciated Eastern,
05:47 Eastern mentally, the Eastern approach to
05:50 medicine, the Eastern medical construct.
05:53 So I just put the book aside and didn't think
05:56 about it. Well fast forward to April of '09 I
06:01 came to 3ABN and was interviewed.
06:06 This kind of I got my life in general and a
06:09 woman saw me and she sent me a package.
06:12 She must have gone to my website and she
06:14 saw that I had information on Acupuncture.
06:16 But you didn't talk about
06:18 Acupuncture when you're on 3ABN.
06:20 No, no I didn't mentioned it because it
06:22 was controversial and I thought you know
06:23 people might not understand then so I just
06:25 let it alone. She looked at my website,
06:29 she sent me a packet and in that packet
06:30 there was a picture of a book and she said
06:34 please carefully consider this.
06:36 It was the same book that Yolanda had sent
06:38 me. So I said Lord are you trying to tell me
06:41 something. So I took the book, out from
06:43 you know obscurity somewhere and began
06:47 to read the book with new eyes this time.
06:50 And Shelley as I read it, I was convicted.
06:53 I knew from when I was reading that there
06:55 was something to this. There was something
06:57 to the connection between astrology and
07:01 Eastern and Babylonian mystery religions
07:06 and Acupuncture and as I read I thought oh
07:10 my, I began to feel so broken and even now
07:14 I mean I just it's so deep for me,
07:19 because I spent so many years studying
07:21 it and immersing myself in it, and then to
07:24 find out that I had been deceived.
07:27 And that I was leading others into a kind of
07:31 deception too by practicing Acupuncture
07:34 it was so heavy on my heart. I also read an
07:36 internet article. It was entitled astrology
07:41 with needles and I recommend that to your
07:45 viewers to just go online and read,
07:47 and read that article because it really shows
07:50 the connection between Astrology and
07:52 Acupuncture. And I went to prayer meeting
07:55 that we Shelley and I just had,
07:58 I was so broken, because I felt like I'm down
08:02 and so from then on that was September
08:05 of '09 and I have not practiced Acupuncture.
08:11 Well you know, you were deceived and it's
08:14 because you didn't know. You want to see
08:17 the full picture and I think that this is
08:19 something the tenets of the New Age
08:23 Movement have really infiltrated holistic
08:27 approach to medicine, yes, in many ways,
08:29 yes, you can think of the, is it Reiki?
08:32 Reiki. Reiki massage and people don't
08:35 understand what the route of this is and you
08:38 can go. I've had someone who wanted to
08:41 give me that and try that on my arm and it
08:42 hurts me. But I didn't even realized till then
08:46 I looked it up later. Yes. You know where
08:49 these, had these spiritual routes if you were
08:53 in the dark side of the world. Exactly.
08:55 But we kind of teased our precious viewers
08:58 out there with the idea that we were going
09:00 to talk about the New Age Movement and
09:03 how it is coming into the church as
09:08 Counterfeit Christianity. So let's talk about
09:14 what you have seen and what you're
09:16 aware of and I don't want to, we need to talk
09:22 about things like kids who are going to
09:24 martial arts, martial art practices,
09:27 but more than that we need to talk about
09:29 things that are actually being brought
09:30 into the sanctuary types of prayers,
09:32 various things and how people are being
09:35 significantly impacted in the Christian church?
09:37 Yes, through practices like contemplated
09:41 prayer, meditation, but again the meditation
09:46 idea is emptying of the mind and the Bible
09:49 and for everything that God has,
09:52 Satan has a counterfeit, amen,
09:54 so we can consider you know the whole
09:58 Eastern meditation and this is not
10:01 demonizing people from the East or
10:03 anything like that. It's really looking at a
10:06 philosophy that is, it contradicts the
10:10 Christian philosophy and that is we empty
10:13 the mind with meditation, with these prayers
10:16 and mantras that are being said with prayers
10:19 now. Mantras have to do with freeing of the
10:22 mind that's really what it means,
10:24 so liberating the mind of thought.
10:27 Hypnotism. Hypnotism, Charmers. Yes,
10:30 Charmers, Deuteronomy 18, so we have to
10:34 again all these things that are going on in
10:36 the churches we have to, don't just take
10:39 the Pastor's word for it. Be like the Berrians,
10:42 go home, study it for yourself, make sure that
10:45 everything that you are learning is in harmony
10:48 with the word of God, that is our standard
10:51 and that is what we measure everything
10:53 against and if it's not you have to discard
10:56 it. You know it's interesting that you
10:58 said don't the Pastor's word for it.
11:01 I've heard of churches where the Pastor is
11:04 actually supporting the idea of bringing in the
11:10 ancient past, the Theophostics where we
11:13 have this spiritual, this is guided imagery.
11:16 Yes. To the max, and at first what's so
11:21 insidious about this now that I have
11:23 remembered that word am I using it a lot.
11:24 That's right, that's right. But we are
11:25 insidious about this is that when you first
11:29 start these practices that they seem to
11:33 have a great benefit and I've talked with
11:36 people who have went through the
11:38 Theophostics and I said oh I was really,
11:41 like I was emotionally being healed and but then
11:45 all of a sudden as you get a little deeper
11:48 into it there is a very sinister and dark side
11:51 that pops up and people left the church
11:53 over it. You know they have Christianity
11:55 over it and it's very dangerous, so can
11:58 you speak to some of those things?
11:59 Satan is so sure, he doesn't come at you
12:02 right away with things that are off putting,
12:07 but what he does is he just introduces a
12:10 little bit at a time and through experience the
12:14 key word here I think is experience,
12:17 because our experiences can really be tricky.
12:21 They can, they can come other sources that
12:23 are not of God and mimic God, Satan will
12:26 present himself as an angel of light the Bible
12:29 says, but the Bible also tell us that we're
12:31 wrestling against flesh and blood,
12:34 but against principalities and powers.
12:38 It's evil and so he comes, he transforms
12:41 himself as an angel of light and we think
12:44 that these things are okay, because we have
12:47 experiences that transform consciousness
12:50 and that's one of the goals of the New Age
12:53 Movement. There has to be a transformation
12:56 of consciousness. You know this whole idea
12:58 of the, of the Age of Aquarius. Yes.
13:03 Back in, I don't even remember what year it
13:05 was, the decade, the 70s or whatever.
13:07 We used to all sing this is the dawning of the
13:10 Age of Aquarius, so I, yeah, without
13:12 thinking what we were saying.
13:15 This whole idea of a planetary transformation
13:19 where men will find out that they are God,
13:23 that's what. The self actualization.
13:25 Self actualization, self purification it's finding
13:27 out, it's the whole metaphysical idea is
13:30 getting in touch with your higher self,
13:33 your inner wisdom, your inner guide.
13:36 It's transplanting the Holy Spirit and taking
13:41 away God's role as created and making the
13:46 creature the creator and taking away the
13:49 Holy Spirit's role as out guide and putting
13:53 ourselves in that position. It's blasphemy.
13:56 And you know even you think back to,
13:59 just to step back for a moment to the ancient
14:01 past where you have a prayer guide,
14:05 a prayer partner who is your prayer guide
14:07 with all of the visualization taking
14:10 you back to the room etc. This is
14:14 something that we don't need a prayer guide.
14:18 That's right. Our prayer guide,
14:19 the Bible says it is the Holy Spirit. Amen.
14:23 We know not how we should prayer,
14:24 but the Holy Spirit is teaching us,
14:27 interceding for us and then there is but one
14:30 mediator between us and God and that is the
14:33 man Christ Jesus. Yes. Who is also at the
14:36 right hand of the throne of father interceding
14:38 on our behalf, so these things though as
14:43 they begin to you know they're glassed over.
14:48 I always say this. Sin is never presented to us
14:52 in an ugly paper bag. That's right.
14:54 You know what the devil does.
14:56 He puts it in a shiny full package, that's right,
14:59 he puts a big Satan bow on it and he hands
15:01 it to us and sometimes we're in the process
15:05 of unwrapping all of this, just thinking we got
15:07 something excited and it's not until we get
15:10 into the heart of the package we've
15:12 released it's nothing, but gift wrapped garbage.
15:15 That's right. And that's what happening with
15:17 these things that are moving into the church.
15:19 That is such a good point, when you said,
15:22 when you quoted that scripture on,
15:24 there is one mediator the man Jesus Christ
15:27 and the New Age Movement.
15:28 The counterfeit for that is Christ consciousness,
15:32 taking the man Jesus Christ out of it and
15:36 putting inserting a Christ consciousness,
15:39 a state of being that every person can have
15:43 if they tap into that higher self,
15:46 that thought is that Christ himself went
15:49 away and became self actualized,
15:52 this is what they teach that he became self
15:54 actualized during those 17 years that there
15:57 is no record of what went on in his ministry.
16:00 But what, that's what they teach that
16:03 every person can be, can have
16:06 the Christ consciousness.
16:08 You know I'm sitting and thinking how easily
16:10 deceived someone could be because Paul says
16:14 you have the mind of Christ and this is
16:16 something we should be seeking, but if we
16:18 want to find the mind of Christ.
16:20 We find it right here in this word.
16:23 This is the mind of Christ. That's right.
16:26 This is where he has written his will,
16:27 that's right, and He says you have it and
16:29 the more the word that you have in your mind,
16:31 the more you operate by the mind of Christ.
16:35 But the New Age Movement has a way
16:39 of trying to teach you to seek a power within
16:44 you instead of seeking the power of God,
16:48 the Holy Spirit to come fill you and then he
16:52 works in you to will and to act
16:54 according to His good purpose.
16:55 That is exactly right, okay, that is the whole,
17:00 it's the spin, they put a different spin on the
17:04 whole idea of you know us being partakers
17:07 of the divine nature or having the mind of
17:10 Christ, because it's just a different spin on
17:13 it, just the Bible says a little bit of leaven
17:16 can poison the whole loaf and that's
17:18 what, that's what they do.
17:19 You know and Peter also says that you trust
17:22 the scriptures to your own destruction,
17:24 because I have seen that some will take a
17:27 scripture to use as a foundation and a kind
17:31 of present it like this, but then would it be
17:34 fair to say because I'm trying to think how
17:37 can we protect ourselves and how can we
17:38 share with the viewers to protect ourselves.
17:40 Anytime the emphasis is taken off of drawing
17:45 you near to the Lord and becoming fully
17:49 depended upon our creator God.
17:52 Anytime the emphasis, that emphasis is taken
17:55 away and it comes down to where we're
17:58 emphasizing on what we can do.
18:01 Is that a good, I mean a good check.
18:04 That's a great check, that's a great check
18:07 because again the emphasis is placed on
18:10 looking within, God within.
18:14 Swami Muktananda it's a tongue twister.
18:17 Yeah it is. Said, worship yourself, bow to
18:21 yourself, kneel to yourself, worship the God
18:24 that is in you, because you are God.
18:26 And when I read that I got a chill. Yes.
18:29 Because it's about, it makes the creature the
18:34 creator and so that parameter that, that,
18:38 that emphasis you have just made on what
18:44 anytime we are told to look within as opposed
18:48 to looking at the creator a red flag should come up.
18:52 I remember when I was very young and had
18:56 kind of gotten away from the church of my
18:57 rearing and I wasn't familiar with the
18:59 Old Testament at all at that time.
19:01 I do recall so clearly when Shirley MacLaine
19:06 had a movie out and I was so fascinated
19:09 by this movie. I was watching it.
19:11 I think it was a mini series or something if
19:14 I recall, because I remember I wanna see
19:16 a conclusion of this and it was the spirit of
19:19 God is within you and I'm thinking yeah I know
19:21 that scripture that's what Jesus said the
19:23 spirit of the kingdom of God. The kingdom
19:26 of God is within you. And I thought yeah,
19:29 I remember that and I went to bed that night,
19:33 actually I think I went and took a shower that
19:35 night, and I'm thinking about this and
19:39 you know that's when the Lord reached me.
19:41 I'm thinking about this movie and have the
19:43 kingdom of God is within you and the Lord,
19:46 I wasn't even one who knew the
19:47 Old Testament very well, but the Lord just
19:50 reached me and opened up my mind to
19:52 the treacherous path that just from watching
19:56 a movie that was fascinating to me at the
19:59 time. The treacherous path that I was about
20:03 to enter and I mean, I broke down weeping
20:06 and I went to the Bible and spend an hour in
20:09 my Bible studying and I thought Lord,
20:11 thank you. So to avoid this Counterfeit
20:16 Christianity. You were here before and we
20:19 talked about how important it is to pray
20:22 to know the word. What are some other things
20:24 that we can do to not get caught
20:28 up in the tenets of New Age?
20:31 The Bible says to be sober, to be vigilant,
20:35 because the devil is like a roaring lion seeking
20:38 whom he might devour. And so being sober
20:43 is to be mindful, to be aware,
20:45 to be alert, so I'm not saying to be one of
20:49 those Christians that is full of fear and
20:53 finding the devil and everything,
20:55 but certainly be aware of what's going on and
20:59 use that parameter that you just gave which
21:02 was just right on point. If there is emphasis
21:05 on self turn away from it, because God is,
21:11 He teaches us God reliance, not self
21:14 reliance. Or even we're gonna add to this
21:17 even if it is to rely on someone else to take
21:20 you to God like you the idea of ancient past
21:23 and Theophostics. That's right. If its reliance
21:25 on anybody besides God the Father,
21:27 God the Son or God the Holy Spirit,
21:29 we need to be aware of it. That's right,
21:34 that's right and also know that you know
21:36 when, when the disciples ask Jesus in
21:39 Matthew 24 verses 3 to 5 tell us when,
21:44 what are the signs of your coming and of the,
21:46 close of the age. And Jesus said,
21:50 the first thing He said was be not deceived,
21:52 yeah, for many will come in my name and
21:55 when you look at the Greek words for many
21:58 will come in my name, its masses, its like
22:01 millions of people they will come in his name
22:05 and say things that will try to represent him
22:09 as being having those authority. Yeah.
22:12 And we have to be careful, because millions
22:17 and millions and millions of people will be
22:19 deceived by this. It is the way that Satan can
22:23 use to get into the minds of each individual and
22:28 actually possess the minds of every saint.
22:32 We have to be careful. It's not just for the
22:36 people out there. It's for us as
22:38 well we are not to be deceived.
22:41 And you know you have mentioned earlier
22:43 that some people will go by experience and
22:45 certainly in the New Age Movement which
22:48 is an umbrella that covers so much.
22:51 It's like there is such an amalgamation of
22:55 religions and various things from Hindu,
22:58 Buddhism, the Wicca, Witchcraft, you know
23:03 Monotheism, Polytheism, Pantheism. Right.
23:06 It's all blended in here. That's right.
23:09 But the point is that all go for the
23:13 "Experience." That's right. This experience of
23:18 acceleration and transformation,
23:20 so we have to be careful, if I understood
23:23 what you were saying earlier Yvonne.
23:26 We have to be careful not to trust our experiences?
23:30 Absolutely, okay, absolutely because it's
23:33 through those experiences that Satan
23:37 gets a hold of you because you can't
23:39 question someone's experience really if you
23:42 have an experience and when I say that
23:45 I mean if I experience a being of light that
23:50 comes to me then, that's your reality.
23:53 That's my reality and you can't, you can,
23:57 you can question that from a philosophical
23:59 place, but my reality is that I just saw this
24:02 being, so how am I going to know that, that
24:06 being is from the enemy. The word of God
24:09 is my only standard against which I can test
24:15 that experience. You cannot lean on
24:17 experience, because experience will can take
24:20 you to another dimension and that is the
24:22 whole idea. That is what Satan is trying to do,
24:26 use experiences to have people
24:29 validate their new philosophy.
24:32 And that's not to say there are times,
24:35 I mean as a Christian that I have had
24:37 beautiful experiences with the Lord that,
24:40 with the Lord, with the Lord that's, that's
24:43 the point is that I was seeking him,
24:46 meditating upon his word praying honestly,
24:48 pressing into his presence and God has
24:53 blessed with something and it's not to say
24:55 that you should not trust all the experiences,
24:58 but we should test the spirits.
25:00 Test the spirits. Examine ourselves,
25:01 examine what's going on according to the
25:04 word of God. Absolutely, right. What would
25:06 you say to the young people who maybe
25:09 watching. Who I think that our youth live in
25:13 a day where it's much more difficult.
25:15 We thought we had problems growing up,
25:17 but it's much more difficult. There's more
25:19 of an identity crisis, the culture has become
25:23 a very lose moral culture if you want to say
25:29 the moralities are loose. Yes. What we just
25:31 say to young people who are seeking power,
25:35 seeking something that, that sometimes
25:37 attracts them to thinks like Wicca
25:41 and moves them away from the Bible.
25:44 I would say that it's so important to be careful,
25:48 to be careful because you can think that
25:51 you're doing something that is fun like
25:54 playing with ouija board. Some of these
25:56 kids are playing with ouija boards and they're
25:58 experimenting with the dark side not knowing
26:01 that they are opening themselves up to, to,
26:07 to the dark side. Demonic influence and
26:09 ultimately demonic possession, so it is so
26:12 important to stay away from that even when
26:15 you're trying to find out what this is.
26:19 There are some things that you just don't
26:20 need to try. If I say that there is rat
26:24 poisoning in that glass of water.
26:27 I'm not drinking it. You're not want to
26:29 drinking it and testing and find out,
26:31 so it is with the dark side. Don't play with
26:34 the dark side. It's way beyond what you could
26:37 imagine. It's so, it's so insidious,
26:40 but it's so, it's scary for our young people
26:45 it's scary and they would be entering into
26:48 an area that they just couldn't control.
26:50 It becomes out of their control. Absolutely.
26:53 You know that's so interesting that when
26:55 we think of hypnotism and the various things,
26:58 anytime someone takes control over you.
27:01 You know that I mean that's what the devil
27:05 does and all that he does is kind of takes
27:08 control, that's right, we have to yield
27:10 ourselves to the Lord, we have to submit
27:12 ourselves to God, absolutely, surrender if
27:15 you will. He never comes in and takes over,
27:18 he is not a God who controls, he is the God
27:21 who gave us the power of choice.
27:24 Yes, yes and that's, isn't it interesting that
27:28 the very thing, and this is so good,
27:30 the very thing that Satan does.
27:32 Satan takes control, he first tells you that
27:36 you're God and you're in control of your
27:39 own faith, but the reality is he is taking control.
27:43 Yeah, amen. I cannot believe I just looked up
27:45 at the clock. We've got to say goodbye
27:47 Dr. Yvonne Lewis, oh no it's so quick,
27:49 thank you so much for being here today.
27:52 And for all of you at home who are
27:54 watching or listening on the radio,
27:56 be vigilant because your enemy is prowling
28:01 around and he wants to get you and he will
28:03 come to you in sheep's clothing.
28:06 Now may the God of grace bless
28:08 you richly in all that you do and say.