Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Carol Cannon
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000403
00:01 Are you someone who's always putting
00:03 unrealistic expectations on yourself
00:05 or maybe even on someone else.
00:07 Or are you always in a hurry and you're multitasking.
00:10 Stay tuned because we've got
00:13 some good news for you.
00:39 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn and welcome again
00:41 to "Issues And Answers."
00:43 Today we're gonna be talking about
00:45 how to overcome what our -- I guess
00:47 I would say officially approved addictions.
00:50 And I have a scripture that I really want to share
00:53 with you this is Proverbs 14:12,
00:56 and it says, "There is a way that seems
00:59 right to a man, but its end is the way of death."
01:04 And that's what we're talking about today, Carol. Right.
01:06 Let me introduce our special guest to you,
01:08 Carol Cannon from Birmingham, Alabama.
01:12 And we are so glad that you've come back again, Carol.
01:15 Thank you. Now we invited you back because
01:18 you are a certified counselor for drug and alcohol.
01:22 Well, alcohol and drug abuse.
01:24 We invited you back to talk about drugs and alcohol,
01:27 but actually it seems what people wanted to hear most
01:31 and what's needed most is to delve a little deeper
01:34 into something that the last time you were here,
01:37 we talked about.
01:38 And that was perfectionism,
01:40 work alcoholism, religious addictions.
01:43 The addictions that we consider clean
01:47 or proved addictions that are intrinsically good
01:51 but that are causing problems,
01:53 so that's what we're gonna be talking about today?
01:56 But first tell us a little bit about yourself.
01:58 Well-- Personally I'm a mother and a grand mother.
02:03 And the wife of a pastor. Wife of a pastor.
02:06 And I am in the stage of life where I am very focused
02:09 on enjoying those grand kids. That's wonderful.
02:11 Yeah. But I spent the last 35years
02:17 up to eight hours a day, talking with people
02:20 who suffer from every manner of addiction.
02:23 And in the process discovered
02:25 what my own addictive tendencies are
02:28 and been able to get relief through
02:31 various of the resources that I recommend to
02:35 addicts and alcoholics counseling
02:36 and 12 step programs, prayer,
02:41 church, church, and church disciplines and--
02:45 Word of God, word of God, absolutely, yes. Amen.
02:48 Well, now you have recently moved from Bowling Green,
02:51 Kentucky to Birmingham to be closer
02:54 to those grand babies. I sure have, yes.
02:56 Yeah, we're so glad that your enjoying your life
02:59 and so glad that you're here to share
03:00 some of your experiences with us.
03:03 Explain to us, you had mentioned these
03:06 were officially approved addictions,
03:09 why do you call them so?
03:11 Because I think that our society in general
03:14 and particularly the religious segment of our society
03:20 reinforces and rewards us for doing some of these things.
03:26 For overworking, for overextending ourselves,
03:29 for over-exhausting ourselves, or for being for attempting
03:34 to be impeccable and unimpeachably pious.
03:38 We get accolades for that and that can really
03:42 kind of feed the starving ego, as it were,
03:46 and we find ourselves just - we get a little applause
03:49 so we do it more because we want more of the rewards.
03:54 But the employers, for example,
03:55 love work, workaholic employees.
03:58 Yes. Right. Yes.
04:00 So there are certain of the addictions that those of us
04:02 who are because trying to be right and righteous
04:06 and trying to be good people, good citizens,
04:08 good members of the family of God.
04:11 But we are drawn to those particularly addictions
04:15 because they're not only considered to be good behavior
04:20 in our sub culture but they're very,
04:22 very rewarded and reinforced.
04:24 You wrote a book, I know the subtitle
04:26 was "growing up imperfect in a perfect family,"
04:30 what was the title?
04:31 "Never good enough." "Never good enough."
04:33 And so I want to start there
04:36 and talk about the idea of perfectionism,
04:41 because this is something that in particularly
04:45 within the church, we know that we are to do
04:48 all things unto the Lord.
04:50 We know that it's a good thing to do your best,
04:55 but sometimes your best isn't good enough. Right.
04:58 And people who have strived to be perfect
05:03 in and of themselves
05:05 usually end up in some kind of problem.
05:08 So let's talk about perfectionism and how,
05:12 how we delineate, how we decide
05:15 what's acceptable as far as doing a good job
05:17 unto the Lord and what's going over the line
05:20 where it really is an addictive behavior
05:22 that's feeding our adrenaline system
05:28 or ego and all of that. Right, right.
05:30 Well, I look at it this way, so many individuals come out
05:34 of childhood with a sense of not being good enough,
05:41 that they've not been able to win the approval
05:44 of their parents or their peers.
05:48 And so they are, they are inclined then to,
05:51 to try to outperform what a normal person
05:57 would do in order to get approval.
06:00 All right, so a person like that
06:01 for a person like that,
06:03 one accomplishment or one achievement
06:06 is too many in a thousand are never enough.
06:08 You can't give me enough-- as many trophies
06:12 as I would like to get.
06:14 So I can get one 'A', but if it's not the top 'A'
06:17 in the class, it's not enough.
06:18 Yes. You're talking to me.
06:22 That's the bad thing. That's the way I grew up.
06:24 Right. Because.
06:25 There is certainly nothing in the world
06:27 wrong with wanting to do well.
06:29 And with seeking to perform well,
06:31 it's when I become obsessed with it to the point
06:34 that I judge myself without mercy
06:37 if I fall a little bit short of the top score
06:40 and I even measure other people's worth
06:42 based on their performance.
06:44 That it begins to shade over into being pathological.
06:48 You know, I often teach that about
06:51 "being rooted and grounded"
06:53 is Ephesians 3:16 through 20 discusses.
06:56 "Being rooted and grounded in the love of God."
06:59 And I think if that's your taproot
07:02 you're not gonna fall into these things,
07:05 but if your taproot is insecurity as mine was,
07:09 then you have this, you know, you know consistently
07:12 approve trying to prove yourself.
07:14 And that's a very difficult thing.
07:16 So when we look at how does somebody recognize,
07:20 maybe there's someone who's watching right now.
07:22 Who says, you know, I thought it was good to try
07:25 to do my best and we're not saying
07:28 that it's not a good-- I mean. Exactly.
07:30 it is a good thing to do your best.
07:32 But how do they recognize when they've crossed over
07:35 say into an addictive behavior,
07:38 first if you will again explain to us
07:42 what is the definition of an addiction?
07:46 Oh, okay, addiction is anything
07:49 that I may call highest priority in my life.
07:51 Over and above other priorities doing it
07:54 to my own detriment or the detriment of the people
07:56 closest to me and then continuing to do it
07:58 in the phase of obvious negative consequences.
08:01 So that's the defining factor, that's the line. Okay.
08:04 Where I crossover into behaving in a way
08:06 that's harmful to me, to my health,
08:09 to my spirituality, to whatever,
08:11 and or to the people close to me.
08:15 Maybe I'm neglecting my family,
08:16 I'm not present to my children.
08:18 I'm so busy trying to be perfect that my children
08:21 don't even know me, that I heard out of the mouths
08:23 of some-- the children of a perfectionist mother
08:26 on a one occasion when I was involved
08:29 in some family therapy.
08:30 And the children said to this mother who-- in her case
08:34 was overcompensating for an impoverished childhood
08:38 and so on, and they stated to their mother,
08:41 "Mom, you are so busy trying to be perfect that
08:44 we all know who you are.
08:45 You're trying to make sure that
08:46 you don't have a hair out of place,
08:48 the house is impeccable, you know,
08:51 and you don't have time to show us your human side."
08:54 Now mind you, these were adult children
08:56 saying this to their mother.
08:58 But I think if younger children could speak
09:00 to this they would say much the same thing
09:02 only in a more child like vocabulary. Yes.
09:04 So becoming so obsessed with meeting
09:09 our unrealistically high expectations
09:12 that we literally don't have time to be human.
09:14 Oh, that's bad.
09:15 We find it impossible to lighten up,
09:18 we judge ourselves of other people without mercy,
09:21 we're extremely self critical.
09:24 You know, people even get tired hearing that,
09:26 and if I may, you know. Sure.
09:29 Criticizing myself constantly, and we see the flaws.
09:32 This is, this becomes almost humorous because
09:35 a perfectionist will walk into a room and immediately
09:38 they'll see all the flaws, you know,
09:41 the shades are not all opened, and even,
09:45 or opened in the exactly same way.
09:47 The chairs are not all pushed up to the table
09:49 the way they should be.
09:50 And wouldn't this room look better if we decorate it
09:53 in this way instead of that way.
09:55 They look at people the same way.
09:56 So you're saying that is it possible that maybe
09:59 you can be a perfectionist about your own home
10:01 but not be, not be bothered at all about somebody else's,
10:05 would that still make you a perfectionist?
10:06 Yeah, I think that's remotely possible, but--
10:10 and if or you may be you just achieved
10:12 some spiritual victory in that regard.
10:15 But typically my perfectionistic mind
10:22 tends to edit everything I see every word I see,
10:29 many of the words that I hear.
10:31 And certainly people and circumstances.
10:35 See, I know that, the reason I ask that question
10:38 because I am accused being a perfectionistic
10:40 about my house, about my housekeeping. Yes.
10:42 And but I can walk into somebody else's house
10:45 that's a total wreck,
10:46 it don't bother me at all. Oh, that's great.
10:48 If I'm not responsible for the dirt,
10:50 it doesn't bother me.
10:52 There's no reflection on you?
10:53 And I'm not a perfectionist about my office
10:55 that's for certain, because out of sight,
10:58 out of mind with me so I've got little piles of things
11:00 here and there, by the time that would drive me nuts.
11:02 Right, right. So okay let's look at.
11:04 So you're a selective perfectionist?
11:06 I guess. I hate to even confess that on the air.
11:11 Okay, so what you're saying is a true perfectionist
11:15 then would be critical of others in there.
11:18 Very possibly, you would be
11:19 the exceptional rule in my mind.
11:21 Okay. But I really consider myself
11:24 a perfectionist other than in that little area.
11:26 You're just a social.
11:28 I just need an impeccable house, you know.
11:32 The point is that a perfectionist
11:34 literally determines value on the basis
11:38 of a high quality performance.
11:40 And if he performs less than up
11:42 to his own expectations he may,
11:46 he may go to the extreme of thinking he needs to go die,
11:49 he's gonna kill himself, you know.
11:52 I've known perfectionists and I've been
11:56 very, very close to this myself where if I,
11:58 if my performance was just average
12:01 I really thought that I didn't deserved to live.
12:04 Oh, mercy.
12:05 And that, that I know that is very, very, very sick.
12:09 Yes. You know.
12:10 Well, and that's, it's wonderful that you had,
12:14 that the Lord opened up this opportunity for you
12:17 and your husband, I mean, your husband was a pastor
12:19 he was at the conference, he taught at Andrews.
12:21 Right. For you to have 35 years to work
12:26 with these people and to workout
12:27 some of these things in your own life, isn't that right?
12:31 I often wonder how I would have ever come to understand
12:35 these things and recognize them in myself
12:39 if I had been privileged to spend so much time talking
12:42 with people who suffer from alcoholism and drug dependency
12:46 and I could see those parallels
12:47 and I had to own them personally.
12:50 I had to get down off the higher rungs of the ladder
12:53 you know, I'm just-- and I didn't have to pretend
12:56 to be come one of them. I was one of them.
12:59 Amen. So you said early that someone that you knew,
13:03 you mentioned to me before the program began,
13:05 that there were someone who inspired a woman
13:08 who was working on her doctorate,
13:09 would you share that? Oh yeah.
13:11 She a friend-- a good friend said that,
13:15 she had been a high performer all of her life,
13:17 pretty much addicted to getting As
13:19 and being the top of the class and so on.
13:21 But she, I would say, was mature enough by the time
13:24 she started working on her doctorate,
13:26 that she decided that she was just gonna do
13:28 as little as possible to get that degree.
13:30 Now I'm sure that was still a good planning.
13:32 You know, but she didn't drive herself to be the top
13:37 of the class anymore and she was determined that
13:40 she would just enjoy her studies
13:42 and get average grades. Amen.
13:45 And be a normal human being for a change.
13:48 I thought that was a extremely, I just,
13:52 I aspire to that kind of change in my own attitude
13:56 when I heard to her speech.
13:57 I've spoken with a lot of employers who said that
14:00 if they get candidates who are looking for jobs there,
14:06 that they will actually overlook the ones
14:10 who make straight As,
14:11 because they figure they're not balanced.
14:13 They'll go for the people
14:14 with the average grades thinking--
14:15 Actually Bryan Robinson, who's done a lot of research
14:17 on workaholism has been able to satisfy my mind on the fact
14:25 that workaholics do not achieve more
14:28 and perfectionists do not achieve more,
14:30 they actually achieve less than the average person.
14:33 But yet somehow still looks like we're getting a lot done
14:36 and we're doing it so well that,
14:39 you know, employers love.
14:40 But it would seem to me that if you are
14:42 a true perfectionist and have these character flaws,
14:45 it would be difficult to recognize that in your self.
14:49 Oh, absolutely.
14:51 Because you would probably be very defensive
14:53 thinking that you're doing so much.
14:55 So how are some of the ways,
14:56 I think you included in your book,
15:00 how to overcome the perfectionist.
15:05 Oh, do want the tongue and cheek ones that I did?
15:08 Yes. Oh sure. Please give me the tongue and cheek.
15:09 I'll be happy to share that.
15:11 And this comes from your book
15:13 "Hooked On Unhappiness," right?
15:14 Yes. The reason that perfectionism is,
15:18 I focused on that in this book,
15:19 is that it links up with misery addiction, yes.
15:25 I may had, it may be a leap for someone
15:28 so let me explain what I mean.
15:31 If I place unrealistic demands for perfection on myself,
15:34 then whenever I fall short
15:36 I get be self critical and miserable. See.
15:39 So I think that perfectionism
15:41 and misery addiction can go hand in hand.
15:44 Perfectionism and negaholism can go very much hand in hand.
15:47 And how painful it must be to have any,
15:49 not only for you but if you are truly,
15:53 if you're the kind of person who demands perfection
15:56 from someone else.
15:57 How painful for a child to grow up having someone,
16:03 the expectation of their parent, right.
16:05 That they must be perfect.
16:07 You know, I believe.
16:08 I was thinking as you were speaking right now,
16:11 perfectionists are the loneliest people in the world.
16:15 Because it's difficult be in the company of a perfectionist
16:19 who's obsessed with perfection I,
16:22 the average person would feel less than
16:25 and feel inadequate in the presence of a perfectionist.
16:28 And, you know, sometimes your parent
16:30 doesn't have to be, parents can convey
16:32 that to a child or not. That's right.
16:34 I'll share my own personal testimony here
16:36 as that I grow up where there was a very disparaging
16:42 and quite a differentiation between the way my sister
16:45 and I were treated.
16:47 And my family demanded perfection from me. Yes.
16:50 If I got anything less than straight A's,
16:52 they were gonna be totally disappointed.
16:54 If I did anything less than perfect
16:56 it was never good enough.
16:58 I mean, they expected it to be perfect
17:00 so I didn't get accolades when it was perfect,
17:02 if it was less than perfect I got the criticism.
17:04 Absolutely. So you grow up with this,
17:07 and it's a very confusing thing because you just don't
17:10 feel like you're accepted for yourself,
17:12 you're afraid to be less than perfect, that's right.
17:14 So it makes you kind of-- for my own situation
17:20 it made me afraid of relationships because
17:23 I was so afraid somebody was gonna
17:25 find out it wasn't perfect.
17:26 Oh, yes. Well, I think that in our early recovery
17:30 from perfectionism.
17:35 We strived for some kind of abstinence,
17:40 and that's where I am coming from in this passage in
17:43 "Hooked On Unhappiness" where I'm talking about
17:45 pursuit of imperfection. Okay.
17:47 And that would constitute abstinence.
17:50 So some of other things that I have done
17:52 and actually enjoyed doing at a given point,
17:55 in pursuing imperfection, is to stop managing my image.
18:00 What the, what the abstinence from perfectionism
18:04 requires that we kind of drop our phony facade
18:07 and accept the fact that we are perfectly imperfect.
18:10 In our lives we need to learn to celebrate
18:12 progress not perfection.
18:15 Occasionally it's good do the minimum
18:18 put less than the usual amount of effort
18:20 into achieving a goal.
18:22 Now this one would be hard for me.
18:23 That's I was gonna say, that's gonna be. Yeah.
18:24 Easier as you get older. Oh, yeah, yeah.
18:28 And then just for fun, "Wear mismatched
18:30 or stained clothing without apologizing or explaining."
18:33 That would be the most difficult for me, I think.
18:35 Yeah. And that gets easier as you get older too.
18:38 Now, you know, drop a little something on your shirt.
18:41 Well, I can wear, and I do wear.
18:43 I mean, sometimes I show up
18:45 in some interesting things to social events,
18:47 but I will apologize.
18:49 Right, yeah. To do it without apology.
18:52 We have to, in our recovery, in our abstinence
18:57 "Drop the take-charge persona
18:59 and let someone else be in charge.
19:03 Ask for and accept help frequently.
19:06 If at first you see don't succeed, don't try again."
19:10 And that's when someone is trying to abstain
19:12 from being a perfectionist, this is the advice.
19:14 Right, yeah.
19:15 Because we're certainly not telling you--
19:17 everyone if you don't succeed the first time,
19:19 don't try again. Right, right.
19:21 And for most of us perfectionists,
19:23 it's music to people's ears when we say,
19:27 I don't know, I'm not sure, or I'd rather not.
19:31 That's music to their ears.
19:33 And above all, in the words of Veronique Vienne,
19:35 author of the little book called,
19:36 The Art of Imperfection.
19:38 "If you fail to do well in something,
19:42 don't act surprised."
19:45 That's cute, that's cute.
19:47 So the perfectionist is somebody
19:51 who really is bound, aren't they?
19:53 Oh, they are prisoners to their addiction, okay.
20:00 Let's talk about workaholism because that's another one
20:03 of those that we briefly touched on last time
20:07 and we didn't get into enough detail
20:09 and people wanted to know, am I really a workaholic.
20:12 Right, right. So what are some of the defining
20:15 characteristics of being workaholic?
20:18 First of all using your work
20:19 as your sole source of meaning identity, and value. Right.
20:24 In workaholics anonymous, we also talk about the fact
20:28 that workaholics tend to think about their work
20:30 when they're not at work.
20:35 They find in their work their main source of satisfaction,
20:39 they tend to take work with them on vacations,
20:42 they are-- in their daily lives they focus on projects
20:47 instead of people.
20:50 What I often confessed to my clients is that
20:52 if I'm working on a project
20:54 and somebody comes to my office door,
20:58 it's kind like they like, if you were to try to--
21:01 if you were to come between an alcoholic and his bottle,
21:04 you know, If you were to come between
21:06 an alcoholic and his bottle, he would mow you down
21:08 to get to his bottle.
21:10 Well, if somebody comes between me and a project
21:12 that I'm working on, I'll unconsciously be rude,
21:17 I'll get that, you know,
21:18 that forbidding look on my face
21:20 I think they'll knock on my office door
21:22 and I'll say yes and invite them to come in.
21:24 But I'm sure they can tell that I'm poised
21:27 to get back to my work,
21:28 to get back to my computer or whatever.
21:31 I can identify with that to some degree.
21:34 How do you, how do you know if that's
21:37 a healthy or an unhealthy thing,
21:38 because if you are on a deadline and,
21:41 you know, if you have constant interruption
21:45 you're not gonna meet that deadline.
21:48 How do you know when you're being,
21:52 like I consider myself very people oriented,
21:55 but when it's time to be project oriented
21:57 I become project oriented.
21:59 How do you know where you're crossing a line
22:02 or if it's really a problem?
22:07 That's a great question.
22:08 I don't know that I can fully answer it,
22:11 but I suspect that it has a great deal to do with
22:15 am I willing to disregard a person
22:19 in order to get a project done.
22:21 Now it maybe that I need to set
22:22 a certain boundary and say, I am so glad you are here
22:25 I would love to be able to talk with you
22:27 I can't take the time right now let's do lunch tomorrow.
22:31 But surely no matter
22:33 how driven we are to accomplish a goal
22:36 we can take a moment out to be gentle
22:38 and courteous, you know-- Okay.
22:40 And outgoing to a person, instead of all that,
22:43 being so up tight, you know. All right.
22:45 I think that's the best I can do for you.
22:47 That's a good answer.
22:48 Okay, so what are some of other characteristics
22:51 of workaholics?
22:53 Multitasking. Okay.
22:55 You know, workaholics love it when they've got
22:58 all kinds of engines running at the same time.
23:02 You know, a workaholic housekeeper for example
23:04 if she's got the washer and the dryer and the dishwasher
23:06 and the vacuum cleaner, all humming at the same time.
23:10 Or a workaholic office. Isn't that just deficiency.
23:12 Well, but the whole thing of multitasking, okay.
23:17 Doing two things at once, you know,
23:20 when I really hit bottom in my workaholism
23:22 I would actually read while I was driving a car
23:25 not listen to tapes, not listen to tapes, read.
23:29 How dangerous you were. Right, yeah.
23:31 I recently read a study on multitasking,
23:35 that's why they didn't call it workaholism
23:36 but on multitasking, and they this was a lengthy study,
23:41 was about a four year study.
23:43 And they had determined that multitaskers
23:46 get less done than those who don't multitask.
23:49 Right, right--
23:51 And, you know, I think the whole harried,
23:54 hurried aura of workaholic
23:57 is very felt by the people around them. Yes, yes.
24:00 And we don't enjoy being in the company people like that,
24:03 and of course I can speak to this
24:04 because I am one, you know, I am one.
24:07 So that's people who are, it's kind of lead,
24:09 follow or get out of the way, right?
24:11 Okay yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah.
24:13 And other characteristics?
24:15 Workaholics bottom-line are jammed at full throttle,
24:18 they're addicted to their own adrenaline
24:21 and if you try to slow them down they actually will go
24:23 into sort of a physiological crisis of identity. Okay.
24:27 You know, if I don't have anything to do,
24:29 then who am I?
24:31 You know, I am what I do and if I don't have
24:33 anything to do then I become no one and I become nothing.
24:37 Oh, I can think of people I know who are like that.
24:40 Right, right. Very much so.
24:42 So now how this a workaholic you know,
24:45 when we-- you've worked in a Self-supporting Ministry.
24:48 And of course 3ABN is a Self-supporting Ministry,
24:51 we have a 150 people doing the work of 400.
24:54 And so everyone here has to be pretty driven
24:58 because we're always working on deadlines,
25:01 we've got more than, you know, it's just by God's grace
25:06 that we get thing everything done that we do get done.
25:09 How do you take someone who is that workaholic personality
25:16 and put them in an environment like this and then say,
25:19 now it's time for you to be healed.
25:22 Right. I think the only thing we can do,
25:25 if we want to recover from workaholism is began
25:28 with abstinence and that means setting boundaries
25:31 to contain ourselves within a normal work hour.
25:35 For example, I had to make the commitment
25:39 to work only eight hours a day. I see.
25:41 You know, so we-- and then
25:43 we have to get support for that we'll do--
25:45 I think get something other interest
25:47 outside of work right. Yes, yes.
25:49 Now we're almost out of time
25:51 I can't believe it has gonna by so rapidly, Carol.
25:54 But what are some appropriate interventions,
25:56 if someone is watching and says,
25:58 it's not me but I see this is my wife or this is my husband.
26:02 How do you intervene in this?
26:07 It's almost impossible to intervene
26:11 without some kind of professional help. Okay.
26:14 So a professional assessment is highly recommended
26:17 and then following that up with recommendations
26:22 for pursuing the appropriate kind of therapy
26:25 or treatment and so on.
26:28 Okay, so basically you want to if you have particularly say
26:33 a family history of alcoholism or drug addiction
26:38 that would be a big exclamation mark
26:42 a red flag is what I'm looking for--
26:43 Big red flag? A big red flag,
26:45 and then you probably it almost people listen
26:49 to what others are saying about you. Absolutely.
26:51 You know, because sometimes people
26:53 we just don't see in ourselves, that's right.
26:55 They can go get professional assessment
26:57 you don't have to may be somebody
26:58 is just being critical,
26:59 but go get the professional assessment.
27:01 Yeah, an objective opinion.
27:02 And when if it is diagnose, then usually the professionals
27:06 going to give you a list of things to do
27:10 and you should try to follow that list
27:11 and may be even get into a support group. Amen.
27:14 Right, right Workaholics Anonymous.
27:16 Okay. Was a big help to me.
27:18 Wonderful, you know, you would been
27:19 such a delightful guest.
27:20 We're so glad that you came to 3ABN to share
27:23 your the life experiences and what the Lord has taught
27:28 you through others that you have helped.
27:30 So thank you so much for being with us again, Carol.
27:32 My pleasure. Okay.
27:34 Now for those of you at home I hope that
27:37 this has filled that need that you were requesting
27:40 and that you see more clearly the detrimental parts
27:44 or areas of being a workaholic or being that perfectionist
27:49 that you actually hurting yourself usually
27:52 you're hurting your relationship with the Lord,
27:54 and you are can be hurting those who are closest to you.
27:58 So we pray that God will,
28:01 as He says in Psalm 129 verse 4,
28:04 "cut you free from the cord of the wicked
28:06 that's binding you."
28:07 Thanks for tuning in today. Bye-bye.