Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Carol Cannon
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000402
00:01 If you hear the word addiction,
00:03 normally you think of somebody
00:04 that's an alcoholic or on drugs,
00:06 but what about the person that just can't quit
00:09 texting or exercises incessantly.
00:12 Stay tuned because we're gonna be talking
00:14 about hidden addictions among Christians.
00:43 Hi, I'm Shelley Quinn,
00:44 welcome to "Issues & Answers."
00:46 Today, we are talking about hidden addictions
00:48 among Christians, but I want to start off
00:50 with the good news first.
00:52 The Bible says in John 8:36 that,
00:55 "Therefore if the son makes you free,
00:57 you are free indeed."
00:59 So not only will we be identifying
01:01 some of these addictions,
01:03 but we're also gonna talk about
01:04 how you can break free from.
01:06 And joining us today is a very special guest
01:09 returning again and that's Carol,
01:11 Cannon Carol, we're so grateful
01:13 that you've comeback. Thank you.
01:14 And you are a certified Alcohol and Drug
01:18 Addiction Behavior Specialist Counselor.
01:23 Yes, C.A.D.C. it's called. Okay, thank you.
01:26 And what does that stand for?
01:28 Certified Alcohol and Drug Abuse Counselor.
01:30 Drug Abuse Counselor, I can split that out mostly.
01:33 You're also an author and you've written two books.
01:37 One is called "Growing--" "Never Good Enough."
01:41 "Never Good Enough." "Growing up Imperfect."
01:44 In a perfect family. Correct.
01:46 And the other is called-- "Hooked on Unhappiness."
01:50 "Hooked on Unhappiness."
01:51 Breaking the Cycle of Discontent.
01:52 That's a wonderful titles,
01:54 great titles. Thank you, thank you.
01:55 I can't wait to read your books.
01:57 Now you and your husband for 35 years
01:59 have had a Recovery Center or Overcoming Center,
02:04 whatever you want to call it. Recovery.
02:05 A Recovery Center in Bowling Green Kentucky. Yes.
02:09 You lived right there on campus on call 24/7. Yes.
02:13 Tell us, the type of work you did there.
02:17 We set out initially to help young people
02:20 who were, who were weird in Christian families
02:25 that prohibited the use of alcohol and drugs
02:27 and found themselves jumping that cultural barrier
02:31 and getting into more trouble
02:34 than they would have probably if they've grown up
02:36 in families that drank socially. Sure.
02:40 Yeah, they were naive about what they were doing,
02:44 they didn't recognize, they didn't know
02:46 the birds and the bees about booze.
02:48 And so when they began to use drugs and alcohol,
02:53 even though they were statistically
02:56 about half as likely to get
02:57 involved with drugs and alcohol.
02:59 They were twice as likely to get
03:00 in trouble once they did.
03:02 And so we saw these young people,
03:04 this was the early 1970s and saw that they needed
03:07 some, some guidance
03:10 and so we actually started off
03:11 and we just sort of created,
03:13 we move away from the university,
03:15 that's where my husband was teaching,
03:17 to move to Central Kentucky.
03:19 And we just sort of created Uncle Paul and Aunt Carol's
03:23 ranch out there in the country
03:24 where we were gonna try to love them
03:26 back to health and good behavior.
03:28 And it was in that kind of a fiery furnace
03:33 that we learned about addiction.
03:34 We discovered that these young people
03:36 weren't just violating the standards they've grown up
03:39 with that they weren't batter
03:40 immoral or anything of the kind. Yes.
03:43 They just got into, they got in deep water.
03:46 And so we be, we have to learn about addiction,
03:48 in fact, we have to discover
03:49 that we had some pretty distinctive,
03:52 addictive tendencies of our own. Interesting.
03:55 So we were actually grateful that that the Lord
03:58 brought us to that sort of situation,
04:00 so that we could learn some things about ourselves.
04:03 You know, when you said that then the idea
04:07 is that addiction is an equal
04:09 opportunity destroyer. Absolutely.
04:11 Doesn't matter what your station is in life.
04:13 That's right. How you've been brought up?
04:15 There are many things
04:16 to which one may become addicted. That's right.
04:19 Let's talk about the four main classes
04:22 of addiction, if you will.
04:23 The one that people know the most about,
04:25 are most conversant with is alcoholism
04:27 and drug dependence.
04:30 And, of course, that includes all illegal drugs
04:35 and certain prescription medication
04:37 can be addictive and then we don't want
04:40 to overlook nicotine and caffeine,
04:41 those are the substances.
04:42 But as a general public we are fairly well
04:46 informed about those substance issues.
04:49 The other three categories fall into the category
04:52 into what we call, clean additions.
04:55 Now that's a miss number
04:56 because they're not really clean.
04:58 They're no more or, you know, less harmful. That's right.
05:02 They just don't involve and so,
05:03 really clean addiction is a lazy way of saying,
05:06 non-chemical dependency. Okay.
05:08 And that includes three different categories,
05:10 activities and processes is the first category
05:14 of the three, the second category
05:16 is interpersonal addictions, and the third category
05:19 is thought and feeling additions.
05:21 Okay, well let's kind of go into those,
05:23 so that people know what we're talking about
05:24 as you said, when it comes to drugs and alcohol
05:27 or chemical dependency, even prescription drugs
05:30 that fall into the category.
05:31 We pretty much understand that,
05:32 we hear about it all the time.
05:34 At least we think we do.
05:36 But now with processes and activity,
05:39 I assume you're talking about
05:40 somebody that like workaholism.
05:42 Right, Terry Kellogg, a very well-known expert
05:46 in this field, speaks of this category
05:49 or this area as any action for distraction. Okay.
05:55 Now isn't that, there's
05:56 nothing wrong with distracting
05:58 one's self in times when you're you know,
06:02 weary and worn and you just want to go
06:05 play a game of monopoly or something,
06:06 I'm not suggesting that there's
06:08 anything wrong with that or, but one can became
06:12 so involved and so obsessed
06:15 with something like shopping, for example. Yes.
06:19 Or electronic activity. Internet. Texting. Texting.
06:24 We see people who are becoming literally
06:26 addicted to texting. Yes.
06:28 Kids who raids are falling
06:31 and they're staying up half the night
06:33 texting their friends.
06:34 Or, or playing their video games and again,
06:37 none of these things in the category of clean
06:39 addictions are intrinsically bad.
06:41 In fact, some of them are very good.
06:44 So it's not what the person is doing per se,
06:46 it's not even how much of what they're doing,
06:49 it's to what extremes they will go
06:51 and in terms of losing control over
06:53 what they're doing.
06:54 All right, so now let's, let's define addiction
06:58 then because you just said,
07:00 it's not necessarily the quantity-- Yes.
07:03 But it's really the loss of control,
07:07 so give us a good definition for addiction.
07:09 The definition I like the very best
07:12 is one that goes like this.
07:14 Addiction is anything I make highest priority
07:16 in my life over and above other priorities,
07:19 doing it to my own detriment or the detriment
07:22 of the people closest to me and continuing to do it
07:25 in the face of obvious negative consequences.
07:28 Okay, so making God
07:31 your top priority is not an addiction,
07:33 but making perhaps religion or religious pers--
07:40 You know, I think of and we religious pursuits,
07:43 I'm hearing more and more about people
07:45 who are, I guess, you would get
07:49 to call them the holiness movements
07:51 and people who are so addicted
07:53 to the external religious practices. Yes.
07:57 And it really has nothing to do with being
08:00 connected personally with the Lord.
08:02 If I had to use one word to describe religious addiction,
08:06 I would say legalism. Okay.
08:08 Or a term that I think
08:10 is original with me, works-aholism.
08:15 Okay, not workaholics, but works. Yeah, yeah.
08:18 As in trying to work your way to heaven.
08:20 Where you, where you become so obsessed
08:24 that this your religious disciplines perhaps
08:27 become your sole source of meaning,
08:29 identity, and value.
08:30 You commune in uni-dimensional,
08:32 it's the only thing you could talk about,
08:34 it's the only thing you can interact
08:35 with other people around, and you become a very narrow
08:39 uni-dimensional kind of person. Okay, okay.
08:41 Actually I described the religious addiction
08:44 quite thoroughly in my first book,
08:47 "Never Good Enough" going up imperfect
08:50 in a perfect family and that's a pretty good
08:52 resource for that.
08:53 But there are suddenly many, many,
08:56 many other process and activity addictions.
08:59 Workaholism, perfectionism,
09:03 electronic activity, shopping, spending,
09:07 stealing as in Kleptomania. Exercise.
09:11 Exercise, and then the risk taking area, gambling.
09:18 How about pornography, does that fit into that one?
09:20 Actually, it's part way,
09:22 pornography is partly in that one,
09:23 but it's also partly in the interpersonal
09:26 addiction category as well, yeah.
09:28 So, you know, a good addict,
09:31 a person with a good addictive personality
09:33 can get addicted to almost anything. Yes.
09:38 And it's about making it
09:40 so important that you lose your,
09:44 lose touch with reality.
09:45 You know, I think the defining factors
09:48 because there are some gray areas
09:50 especially with these clean addictions.
09:52 I think the defining factors are that,
09:54 when a person is engaged in the behavior,
09:57 they lose touch with their responsibilities,
09:59 their relationships, and with reality.
10:03 So it's doing something, you can overdo something
10:05 to a fault when it's been detrimental to you,
10:08 then you know that you've, you're in trouble.
10:10 Exactly, or if you use it to hurt yourself
10:12 and other people and it's easy to do
10:14 that with religion. Okay.
10:16 So now the third one was interpersonal
10:18 addictions, let's talk about those.
10:19 Yeah, I break that down
10:22 into five subcategories, romance.
10:26 And I know people who just get,
10:29 they get high on being in love,
10:31 falling in love. They absolutely do.
10:32 And that's, their brain is actually producing
10:36 a heroin like and cocaine like substance,
10:38 chemical when a person is falling in love.
10:41 So for all practical purposes
10:43 when we fall in love, we're high.
10:45 And we remain high for several months.
10:47 So you shouldn't marry
10:48 somebody that you have only known for a few months
10:50 because you're marrying
10:51 somebody when you're high on a drug. That's right.
10:53 And you choose making a decision
10:55 that will affect you for the rest of your life
10:57 while you're high on the drugs, okay.
10:58 Yeah, yeah, so let me start that list
11:02 of subcategories again, sex, romance,
11:06 relationships, rescue and caretaking,
11:10 fixing other people can be very addictive.
11:13 And finally, simple enmeshment
11:16 within a family or a extended family system
11:22 in which the various members of the family
11:24 get so intertwined, their egos get so intertwined
11:28 with each other, that they begin to live
11:29 each other's lives.
11:31 So you're talking about living vicariously,
11:33 for example, say a mother
11:35 who didn't get to do the beauty queen routine,
11:38 who takes her little daughter and dresses her up
11:42 and takes her to all these beauty contests
11:44 and actually begins forcing the child to do this.
11:47 Because she is addicted and living vicariously
11:50 through the child, would that be--
11:52 I think that's an acceptable example,
11:54 I also think of cases
11:55 in which parents and their adult children
11:57 are unable to detach from each other
12:00 and they remain far too involved even, you know,
12:06 even after the child is married
12:09 and has a family of his own.
12:10 The child who has to be, has to, you know,
12:13 communicate with the parents who live in a city
12:16 great distance away several times a day,
12:18 for example, and be in touch constantly and you know.
12:23 So just start living each other's lives
12:25 is the simplest synonym for phrase to describe that.
12:31 Let's see-- And the thoughts
12:32 and feelings addiction.
12:33 Thought, yeah, before I go onto thoughts
12:35 and feelings, so let me give you Anne Wilson Schaef's
12:39 shorthand version of these,
12:42 and I've added a little bit to it too,
12:44 but sex addicts basically come onto people. Okay.
12:50 Romance addicts move on from one relationship
12:53 to the next because they're addicted
12:57 to the accoutrements of romance,
12:59 the Harlequinness, if you will of the experience.
13:03 And for our international audience,
13:06 Harlequin was, I don't know
13:09 if that was international, but those are romance--
13:11 Romance novels. A little-- In fact, people could
13:14 even get addicted to the books
13:15 and the reading of those books.
13:17 The relationship addiction
13:18 is where you hang on to somebody
13:22 and kind of expect too much of the relationship,
13:28 expect them to, to be,
13:30 to be solely focused on you. Okay.
13:33 And it becomes usually
13:36 a pretty controlling situation.
13:38 The fourth one, rescuing and fixing
13:41 people is where you just climb onto people,
13:43 it's kind of like you collect cripples. Okay.
13:47 And you get one person fixed
13:48 and then you've got to run fix somebody else,
13:51 and it's yeah. So there, the,
13:53 and then the fifth one is enmeshment
13:55 which I've already described.
13:57 So those are the various interpersonal addictions.
13:59 Now, thought and feeling addition
14:01 is the ones that people probably
14:04 can relate to the best
14:05 are worrying, raging, obsessing,
14:13 and those kinds of things.
14:15 Or even the misery addiction
14:19 and negaholism, those are thought
14:23 and feeling addictions.
14:24 The people who are hooked
14:25 on being negative, you know, it's interesting
14:27 because a lot of people
14:28 don't look at worrying as an addiction,
14:30 but when you look at your, your definition. Right.
14:34 And they, they're, it is a choice, I mean,
14:37 some people don't think they have a choice,
14:39 but there is a conscious decision
14:41 that you make to worry or not,
14:43 I mean, some people maybe unconsciously worry,
14:45 but you, you're still choosing to,
14:46 so you can choose the other way.
14:49 So when you look at these,
14:50 how do you identify these various, I mean,
14:57 let's say that, I'm a workaholic
15:00 and maybe I don't recognize or I'm a perfectionist
15:03 and I'm not recognizing it, perhaps I exercise too much
15:08 and I'm not recognizing it.
15:10 How do I identify or how do we reach
15:14 someone who is an addict, to let them know
15:16 you've got a problem?
15:18 Well, typically, there's a lot of denial
15:20 and delusion associated with addictive behavior.
15:24 And so the addict is gonna be the last to know.
15:28 The people closest to him probably know,
15:30 but sometimes they also fall into the denial and delusion.
15:35 Unfortunately it's kind of the nature of addiction
15:37 that you almost always have to suffer
15:39 some consequences before,
15:43 before you begin to take a problem
15:45 of an addictive nature seriously.
15:49 So, but one way if a person is open to it,
15:56 would be simply to listen to feedback from other people.
15:59 So when somebody, like I had a friend
16:01 whose husband began working out
16:06 and at the beginning, it was innocent enough,
16:08 but pretty soon after work he had to go spend through,
16:12 two to three hours in the gym everyday
16:14 and if he missed, he was, he was frantic about it.
16:17 He was, had no time with his children
16:20 because by the time he got home,
16:22 they were in bed, she was feeling neglected,
16:25 abandoned, if you will. Sure.
16:26 So that was becoming an addiction to him,
16:31 but she really couldn't talk to him about it.
16:33 How do you reach or intervene
16:35 when someone's in an addictive pattern?
16:37 Well, often a person in that situation
16:38 that is the person, who's the gym fanatic or,
16:43 is pretty defensive. Yes.
16:44 And so you do to me. And it's good for my health
16:46 and it's good for my body, etcetera.
16:48 And that's the problem with the clean
16:49 addictions, because as I said earlier,
16:52 some of them are intrinsically good. Yes.
16:54 And so it's very, very difficult to confront it.
16:58 Sometimes you have to plan a full scale intervention,
17:01 bring other people into the process
17:03 in order to override
17:04 the addict's denial and delusion,
17:06 you might have to gather
17:08 together a group of people,
17:09 get some support for a professional
17:10 interventionist and some guidance,
17:12 it can be that difficult to break
17:15 through to the addict. Amen.
17:17 Now how do you really put 'cause there maybe
17:22 some woman out there who's saying right now,
17:24 "My husband's addicted to golf,
17:26 he's got to play golf every Sunday,
17:29 and it doesn't necessary mean he's addicted." Right.
17:32 How do you identified between normal behavior
17:34 and addicted behavior?
17:36 Well, I start of course with a definition
17:38 that we used earlier have, has the individual made
17:41 it such a high priority in his life
17:43 that it's harming him and other people
17:46 and yet he's continuing to do it
17:47 in the face of obvious negative consequences,
17:50 that's one criteria.
17:51 The second one is, is the individual
17:56 using this behavior as their sole source of meaning,
18:00 identity and value.
18:02 Do they have -- Are they doing
18:03 this to the extent that they're losing control over
18:06 how much of it that they do or once
18:09 they've gonna started or they're losing
18:11 control of the consequences.
18:14 And then finally, the acid test for me
18:16 is the behavior, removing me from reality,
18:20 from relationship, and from responsibility.
18:23 You know, Carol, I'm thinking about people
18:27 that I know outside the church that perhaps think
18:31 going to the casino is fun to do,
18:35 you know, occasionally, but they seem --
18:38 they're usually, there seems to be something, you know,
18:40 of course, we don't believe in gambling,
18:42 but with gambling.
18:44 With many of the things
18:46 that people do to entertain themselves,
18:49 there seems to be a code, if you will,
18:54 that just gets you wrapped around,
18:56 then starts to drawing them in.
18:59 And I don't, I'm sure
19:00 you can answer this question for us.
19:02 Are some people born with addictive
19:05 personalities like, you know,
19:07 the ones who take one drink and, I mean,
19:09 it's in their genes,
19:10 they're gonna be an alcoholic,
19:12 do you think that there are people
19:14 who are born with additive personalities
19:16 if they can't just try something
19:18 and do a little of it, but they get immediately,
19:22 they're getting that Serotonin fix
19:24 that maybe they don't have or something
19:26 and they get hooked on it?
19:28 Yes, yes, I do believe that. Okay.
19:31 And I think we're in pretty good company
19:33 as far as the professions in the fields
19:35 that that seems to be the, you know,
19:37 the prevailing opinion is that some people have
19:40 a reward deficiency syndrome. Okay.
19:43 Is what the surgeon general called it,
19:47 the reward deficiency syndrome?
19:50 And certainly we know the children of alcoholics
19:53 are hereditarily or genetically prone.
19:58 So they have a biochemical
20:01 predisposition and I happen to think that,
20:03 that's true of that, that hereditary factor
20:07 is present even with the clean addictions.
20:10 And so you had mentioned earlier
20:12 in another program, actually, we were talking about
20:15 being addicted to unhappiness,
20:17 being addicted to misery,
20:19 if you will that there is a,
20:20 there can be a genetic predisposition and that is--
20:25 Absolutely, yes but,
20:26 but bear in mind that most of these
20:28 behaviors we're talking about,
20:30 chemical and non-chemical, are very,
20:33 they produce a great deal of pleasure at first
20:35 and that's what hooks people, but you know that, if you go,
20:38 if you should go for the first time in your life,
20:41 you go gamble and play, you know,
20:43 and you win a thousand dollars,
20:45 don't you think that, you'd want to do that again?
20:47 Oh, boy. You see, so-- It's same with men
20:50 who think they're just gonna take,
20:52 or young boys, and they just take
20:53 a look at pornography and we, I don't know, if you know,
20:58 Dr. Ed Weiss, but I had interviewed him
21:00 and he was talking about how that changes
21:04 the chemistry in their brain.
21:06 And then they've got years to overcome,
21:09 to get away from this type of. That's right.
21:13 To reprogram the brain, if you will.
21:15 You know, it's very difficult.
21:16 Shopaholism is the same way. Yes.
21:19 When a person scores a terrific bargain,
21:21 they get a high from it. Yeah.
21:24 Yeah, so it's no wonder that we want to repeat
21:27 behavior that we find rewarding in first place,
21:29 and if we're, if we're kind of deficient
21:31 of those rewarding chemicals in our brains,
21:34 we're naturally gonna want to get them somewhere.
21:37 That's interesting. So now when you,
21:39 we were just talking about we can do this intervention,
21:43 what are some other ways, I mean,
21:45 what do you do, there maybe someone out there
21:47 and you maybe watching right now and say,
21:49 I can identify with this and I realize that,
21:52 you're talking about me and I'm a Christian,
21:54 and I go to church and I didn't realize
21:56 that because they were just having a sale on every week
22:00 and I go down there, I'm a shopaholic.
22:03 What besides the intervention
22:06 are just coming to that point where you are beyond
22:10 denial or you can get someone beyond denial.
22:14 What's the next step out?
22:16 I think that for those of us
22:17 who are affected by someone,
22:19 who has a problem with chemicals
22:22 or with an activity or process addiction,
22:24 the best thing we can do is learn or develop
22:30 coping skills by attending a group
22:33 like AL-Anon or Coda or some other Twelve-Step Program
22:40 where we can learn to stop blaming
22:46 ourselves and stop trying to control
22:48 the other person's behavior and just back off
22:51 and sort of like, go and like God, if you will.
22:53 So you're saying join a support group of some sort
22:57 that will-- Celebrate recovery or--
22:59 Help you not to be codependent.
23:04 And be so obsessed with the other person
23:06 and with trying to get them fixed
23:07 because when the codependent members of the family
23:11 become so involved in trying to get
23:12 the addictive person fixed, it actually can drive them
23:16 deeper into their addictive behavior. Oh, wow.
23:19 We've got to get the focus back on ourselves
23:21 and on being as healthy as we can ourselves.
23:24 So there's some mother out here who's watching
23:28 and she has little children and she's saying,
23:30 "You're telling me not to try to fix my husband
23:33 who's hooked now on pornography." Okay.
23:36 All right, that's a difficult,
23:38 that's a difficult pill to swallow
23:41 I must to say, I'm not to fix him.
23:43 But the more you try, if you're not educated
23:46 in knowing what you're doing the more
23:47 you probably gonna drive them to the addiction.
23:50 So what's the answer? You step back.
23:53 How does this person get help?
23:56 I think the problem is far greater than
23:58 any of us can manage and we do have to depend
24:01 on a higher power, we have to,
24:03 we have to-- And who is that higher power?
24:06 That would be God.
24:07 Okay, I wanted to make sure. Yeah. Right.
24:10 And certainly God will work through people
24:12 and events in the lives of the addicted person,
24:16 persons to bring them hopefully to their senses.
24:20 You know, it's been my experience
24:24 that through a family member,
24:26 that you can and I can say this,
24:30 my sister gives me permission to,
24:32 she was hooked on chemical drugs
24:36 and I know we're talking about
24:37 the non-chemical ones more today,
24:40 but she went through several
24:42 Twelve-Step Programs
24:44 that we placed her in if you will.
24:47 And none of them took,
24:49 because she had reached that point
24:52 where it had to be between her and God
24:55 and her saying, okay, I'm going to do this.
24:57 Now-- You have to be really ready.
24:59 That's the point I'm making You know,
25:00 sick and tired of being sick and tired. There you go.
25:03 And know that your best efforts
25:06 have failed in every regard and that you do need help.
25:11 Yes, and you know, I know that if I say this,
25:14 I'm probably, please don't write to me,
25:15 but I'll tell woman who, whose husbands are seriously
25:20 into some really bad things.
25:22 And sometimes, it's okay to have a separation
25:24 from that person, especially if the --
25:28 not telling you get a divorce,
25:30 but separate till they do seek help,
25:33 let them go their way.
25:34 So that it's not being so detrimental to the family,
25:39 you know, when we have somebody
25:40 that's on drugs and alcohol, and things that are going on,
25:44 sometimes it puts the other
25:47 spouse and children at risk.
25:49 Put some at risk can in, it can endanger a wife
25:52 if a husband is a sexaholic, for example,
25:55 it might be endangering his wife's health. Amen.
25:58 And the welfare of the family,
26:01 so in a case like that for the wife to take a time out
26:05 and say, "I'm willing to,
26:07 I want to remain in this relationship,
26:08 God willing, but I need to back off to protect myself
26:12 and create a little space here,
26:13 till you have time that you would need
26:17 to recover from this addiction,
26:18 to go to whatever lengths are necessary
26:20 to free yourself from this addiction."
26:24 So we pray that, we know there's
26:27 some good programs out there like Bridge to,
26:29 Bridge to Recovery, is that the name of that
26:31 in Bowling Green, Kentucky.
26:33 But we also pray that for the churches
26:36 that take addiction and addictive behaviors
26:40 very seriously because they maybe hidden,
26:42 but they are still in the church
26:44 even these "clean addictions".
26:49 Present themselves in the church,
26:50 so we hope that they'll get some kind of program going,
26:53 bring people in who can speak to this, right? Yes, indeed.
26:56 And know that truly God is able.
26:58 Psalm 129 verse 4 says that, "He is righteous,
27:02 He will cut us free from the cords
27:03 of the wicked that binds us."
27:05 And it takes God's help and empowerment,
27:09 your cooperation and sometimes, you know,
27:12 like my sister was delivered 22 years ago,
27:15 overnight from her behavior
27:17 and never repeated any alcohol or the drugs at all.
27:21 But for some people, it's a day-by-day thing.
27:24 And so it takes sometimes professional
27:27 health to come out-- Absolutely,
27:29 yes-- Carol Cannon,
27:31 thank you so much for being back with us again,
27:33 and will you comeback and talk to us more about
27:35 the chemical dependencies? Sure, anytime. Thank you.
27:39 Thank you. For those of you at home,
27:41 we're so glad that, you could join us today.
27:42 And if you are someone that's hiding an addiction,
27:46 I want to encourage you to reach out and get help.
27:49 Pray and ask God, talk to someone,
27:52 find a support group, get some help,
27:55 because it isn't an easy thing to overcome,
27:58 it's a struggle, but you can make it,
28:00 and who the son has set free will be free indeed.
28:05 Thank you so much for joining us today,
28:07 and we'll see you next time.