Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Carol Cannon
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000401
00:01 Hi, I'm Shelley Quinn.
00:03 Have you ever had a problem saying, no?
00:05 It took me a lot of years to learn how to use that word.
00:09 Please join us today on "Issues and Answers,"
00:12 because we're going to be talking
00:13 about how to set boundaries.
00:37 Hi. Welcome to "Issues and Answers."
00:39 We have a very special guest returning with us today.
00:42 But first let me share a scripture with you.
00:45 And you'll see our topic today is going to be on boundaries
00:48 and I think this is a perfect example of setting a boundary.
00:52 This comes from Joshua, in Joshua 24 and verse 15.
00:56 And he says, "As for me and my house we will serve the Lord."
01:00 Sometimes, we don't know how to protect
01:05 ourselves without seeming selfish.
01:08 But boundaries and setting boundaries
01:10 are a very healthy thing.
01:12 So returning with us today is Carol Cannon,
01:15 and Carol we're so glad you're back with us.
01:17 Thank you. Now you are a certified
01:20 Alcohol and Drug Abuse counselor
01:21 with a masters in education
01:23 and an undergraduate degree in Religion.
01:25 Oh, yes. Married to a pastor, but you are also,
01:30 you and your husband ran for 35 years
01:33 a program called "Bridge"
01:35 and that was in Kentucky, is that correct?
01:38 Yes, yes, it is. Bowling Green.
01:39 Bowling Green. Now when you are working with people
01:44 who have addictions, I'm quiet certain either,
01:49 I shouldn't say I'm quiet certain.
01:50 I'm not quiet certain of anything
01:52 but I would suspect that either people
01:57 who have gone off into those kind of addictions
02:02 either did not have boundaries set for them
02:04 or they didn't know how to set boundaries.
02:07 And you've written on this quiet extensively.
02:10 You've authored a couple of books.
02:12 Now boundaries is a very special topic
02:16 because we don't talk about it often enough.
02:18 Right. So if you will please,
02:21 define for me what the definition of boundaries is.
02:26 Well, a boundary is an invisible barrier
02:29 between myself and another individual.
02:32 That allows me to protect myself
02:36 and act in my own best interest.
02:40 Well, at the same time expecting other person
02:43 and showing concern for their well-being.
02:45 Okay. It involves adjusting and re-adjusting
02:49 what I want to need and what you want to need,
02:53 and being able to have respect on both sides.
02:59 Okay. It's about standing up and speaking up
03:01 in my own behalf, showing people
03:04 where I stand, like Joshua did
03:05 in the scripture you just read.
03:07 Letting people know where I stand.
03:08 I don't know if you've ever had a relationship
03:11 where you work quiet sure where you stood
03:13 or where the other person stood,
03:15 but that's common and it's very uncomfortable.
03:18 I would much rather know where I stand
03:20 and where the other person stands
03:22 because then I don't have to guess anymore.
03:24 Amen, amen. So I would say that,
03:29 it's, it's, there are external boundaries like--
03:32 Yes. There is what I call personal space.
03:34 Yes. And you will, sometimes I'm a hugger.
03:37 You know, I'm just one of those Labrador puppies
03:40 that are gonna come up and hug people.
03:41 But there is times that you approach someone
03:44 that you know they got their hand out there
03:47 and they've got a personal space.
03:49 They don't want that.
03:50 So I will, and I'll always ask,
03:52 "Are you a hugger before I hug?"
03:54 Now--so there is external boundaries,
04:00 maybe sexual boundaries and physical boundaries
04:03 I should say. Now there are also internal boundaries
04:07 like when people are maybe prying
04:09 into your business too much or overly demanding.
04:14 And I'll give you an example
04:16 and see tell me if this is a boundary.
04:18 For example, at church it seems that most churches,
04:21 20% of the people do 80% of the work. Yes.
04:25 Sometimes it's 5% of the people doing 95% of the work.
04:28 Okay. But at church, there are times
04:32 that I've had to say no to my local church
04:35 because I have a ministry that I do on the weekends,
04:39 my husband and I. And have such
04:41 responsibilities here at 3ABN.
04:44 And there are times that I'd love to be able to step-in
04:46 and fill every office that they ask me to
04:48 but sometimes you have to say, "I'm sorry, I can't."
04:52 That's a boundary, right?
04:53 Yes, sure. Yeah sure. Yeah. That's a--yeah.
04:54 So-- It's about setting limits.
04:56 It's about recognizing your limitations
04:58 and then setting those limits
05:01 and not exceeding your boundaries
05:03 because you're gonna hurt yourself
05:04 if you exceed your boundaries.
05:06 So what are, what is,
05:08 let's just define what is boundaries setting
05:11 and what is not boundary setting?
05:14 Well. I think the one of the most important issues
05:17 that can be confusing for people about boundaries
05:20 is it somehow a boundary might feel like a barrier.
05:23 Okay. Or an active selfishness.
05:28 And, of course, as Christians
05:29 we certainly don't want to be selfish.
05:32 So I find it important to share with people
05:36 that Boundary Setting is not an active selfishness,
05:38 just an active healthy self care.
05:40 Another big concern that Christians have,
05:44 probably anyone who is human has,
05:46 is that we don't want to be controlled by another person.
05:50 We don't want to be controlling.
05:52 And there is something about Boundary Setting
05:53 that smacks off control.
05:56 And so the way I look at it is that Boundary Setting
05:59 isn't about control it's about clarity and it's about choice.
06:04 It's about making my preferences known
06:06 to other person so that they can make choices
06:09 about whether or not they want to be
06:11 in a relationship with me or want to be in my presence,
06:17 by being open and honest with them.
06:18 So that they know again kind of what the rules are.
06:21 Okay. And then listening that same information from them,
06:25 so I know what their preferences are,
06:27 their needs are, and what their rules are.
06:29 So Boundary Setting again is about negotiating
06:31 my needs and wants with what their needs and wants are
06:35 and coming up with something that works for both of us.
06:37 Or if we can't find something
06:39 that works for both of us we may step back
06:42 from the relationship and that would be
06:44 a Boundary Setting measure.
06:47 I hadn't really thought about that so much Boundary Setting.
06:50 I mean, boy for people who are dating
06:53 they certainly need to learn Boundary Setting.
06:55 Yes, yes. But-- and for married couples
06:58 I think this is something maybe we don't always
07:01 we didn't realized we were defining these boundaries.
07:04 But every married couple goes through that
07:06 in the adjustment period and there are some things
07:09 that you should discuss before
07:11 and there are something that you forget to discuss before
07:13 but you make certain boundaries.
07:15 For parents, you know, some parents are,
07:19 I talked with a lot of children who come from homes
07:23 that they wish their parents had set boundaries.
07:27 Kids feel more comfortable when there are boundaries.
07:30 They feel their parents are more caring
07:32 when there are boundaries. Right.
07:34 But sometimes parents feel like they're being,
07:38 you know, their kids aren't gonna say they like it,
07:40 you know, when you set a boundary.
07:42 But Boundary Setting is healthy is the bottom-line.
07:44 It's healthy, it's healthy in home.
07:46 It's healthy. It's healthy for a parent.
07:48 I'm sorry, it's healthy for a child
07:50 to see or her parent set boundaries
07:53 in his own self interest, in behalf of himself.
07:56 In other words, for the parents to model
07:59 healthy self care to the child.
08:01 So the child will then have permission
08:04 to act in his own best interest.
08:07 So both modeling boundaries to children
08:10 and setting boundaries with them
08:12 and teaching them to respect the boundaries
08:14 of other people of their peers,
08:18 because that's really, speaking of bottom-line,
08:21 that's the bottom-line.
08:22 Boundary Setting is about respect. Okay.
08:25 It's about respecting another person's integrity
08:28 as unique separate individual for me
08:32 and the fact that they have different approaches to life
08:36 and different ways of doing things and that's okay.
08:40 Okay. I'm kind of a bottom-line person.
08:42 So let's get specific.
08:44 In my understanding you'd say that we need just to learn
08:46 when to say, how to say, that a yes, be yes and no, be no.
08:50 Correct, yes.
08:51 So let's get into some examples
08:55 of external boundaries and internal boundaries.
08:59 Okay. The external boundary involves
09:02 both protecting myself and containing myself
09:06 within my rightful space, physically and sexually.
09:11 Okay. So about arms length
09:14 there is that average amount of space that people need
09:18 and so I will both protect myself
09:22 and contain myself within my rightful space.
09:25 I will recognize that I don't have the right
09:29 to go outside that space and touch another person
09:32 without their permission.
09:34 And I will reserve the right to either withhold
09:37 or grant permission to another person
09:40 who wants to come inside my space
09:42 and touch me either physically or sexually.
09:45 And you know, boy, we can all relate to this.
09:49 I worked with someone and as I said I'm kind of touchy,
09:53 feely person, a huggy person.
09:55 Right. But I worked with someone,
09:58 a quick hug is one thing,
10:00 if someone steps up and it talks to you
10:03 where they're too close in your face
10:05 and you keep, you back up and she kept coming closer
10:08 and you back up and she kept coming closer,
10:10 and it was so uncomfortable you just want to push.
10:14 Right, right.
10:15 So there is, we need to respect that boundary
10:19 and recognize that, that's pretty much
10:22 for all people I think.
10:23 I've seen someone practically
10:25 back someone off a porch, Shelley,
10:27 because they kept advancing when our bodies
10:30 seem to have a way of naturally adjusting,
10:33 the distance between ourselves and another person.
10:36 Based on how we feel about them or whether or not
10:39 we feel threatened by them or whether,
10:41 you know, and so, if we're attuned,
10:45 if we're attuned to our own feelings and needs
10:48 and sensitive to the feelings and needs of others
10:51 we will make those adjustments automatically.
10:53 But sometimes we need to speak up
10:54 with in our own behalf.
10:55 We need to say, "I'm not comfortable having you
10:58 in my face right now or I'm not comfortable
11:01 with the proximity between us right now."
11:03 I mean, if I think somebody is angry at me,
11:06 I'd rather have a little greater distance from them.
11:09 Okay. And how does, how about a parent,
11:12 it strikes me a parent who is scolding a child
11:17 often you will see a parent get right to the child's face,
11:20 Yes, yes. so the child is feeling--
11:24 Very disempowered. Okay. Very disempowered.
11:28 And probably quiet terrified and yet,
11:32 more terrified to act in his own behalf
11:35 than he would otherwise be.
11:36 I've seen little three year olds
11:38 with a parent in their face.
11:39 Eyes brimming with tears, but yet the child,
11:42 you know, endured the tongue lashing,
11:47 I think because she knew
11:48 that the alternative would be worse.
11:50 And I thought it was really sad that a three-year-old
11:52 would have to have that that knowledge.
11:56 So this is something that I think
11:58 a lot of parents probably, even wonderful good parents
12:01 just don't think about that their child has a little needs
12:04 and little boundary space there as well,
12:07 and they should respect that.
12:08 So if you're scolding your child
12:10 it's better to sit down with them or if that's impossible,
12:14 it's easy for me to talk 'cause I don't have children.
12:16 But if that's impossible then at least hold their hand
12:19 and talk to them at a distance.
12:21 Not tower over them, not tower over them,
12:23 not you know, terrify them. Okay, okay.
12:28 So now other boundaries external.
12:31 Let's talk about a dating relationship,
12:33 external relation. All right, all right.
12:35 In a dating relationship,
12:38 what I do if I have boundaries is I make it known to you.
12:41 If I have certain preferences about the activities
12:44 that we engage in socially with other people,
12:47 the places we go, the individuals
12:50 we spend our time with and certainly the things we do
12:53 with one another on a physical,
12:56 pre-sexual level so to speak,
12:58 what kinds of affectionate activities
13:02 we're kind of engage in, is it okay with me to--
13:08 Hold hands. Hold hands or embrace or kiss
13:12 or engage in other liberties at what point.
13:19 Being able to say to another person whatever the situation,
13:22 whether it's physical or sexual or,
13:24 or a social or otherwise, I'm not comfortable with this.
13:27 This isn't okay with me. I'd rather not do this.
13:29 I hope you won't be offended
13:30 but I prefer not to do the following, you know.
13:33 And being able to have that on the tip of my tongue
13:36 and know that it's okay to share that,
13:39 and if the other person is hurt,
13:41 you know, the idea of Boundary Setting is that
13:43 I allow other people know how I wanna be treated.
13:45 And I attempt to do so without offending them.
13:48 But there is a difference between
13:49 offending someone and them taking offense.
13:51 Right. And so as long as I know I've stayed
13:54 within my own rightful space
13:55 and stated my position in a respectful way,
13:59 then I don't have to be afraid that I've violated
14:04 any of the rules about Boundary Setting.
14:06 I will, you know, I'm willing to take
14:09 the risk of telling you my truth,
14:13 and know that I've a right to do that.
14:15 And if you take offense,
14:16 I won't try to talk you out of it.
14:19 That would be an exceeding of your boundaries.
14:21 If I can see that you're upset with me,
14:23 oh, please don't be mad and then I over-explain
14:26 why I did, what I did, or why I said what he did,
14:28 you know, try to reason with you to talk to you
14:31 out of feeling the way if you, that is a boundary violation.
14:34 So now that kind of sounds like
14:36 we're getting into internal boundaries.
14:37 Is that not? 'Cause all of the sudden we are--
14:42 We're concerned about the other person's feelings.
14:43 Okay. So let's talk about internal boundaries.
14:46 So, you see, external boundaries
14:47 are about our physical sexual space.
14:49 Internal boundaries are about what goes on within us.
14:53 So the internal boundary kind of sticks to our skin
14:55 or it's just inside our skin.
14:57 And it's how we evaluate situations.
15:05 In such a way that, for instance,
15:07 if you make a statement to me about what I wore to church
15:11 or mistake I made when I was doing a presentation
15:15 or something like that.
15:16 You make a statement to me about that
15:18 and you do it in perhaps a judgmental or harsh way.
15:21 I'm able to stay within my, use my internal boundary
15:26 and I will think something like this.
15:28 I won't say it aloud, but I'll be thinking is
15:31 what Shelley is saying and doing right now
15:33 is it much or more about her and her history,
15:36 All right. As it is about me.
15:39 So I contempt my reaction to you
15:41 because I have a little perspective on it.
15:43 I don't automatically take it all in
15:46 and then start over-reacting to it.
15:48 Okay, that's good.
15:49 So I can give myself
15:51 that little bit of vigor room if you will.
15:54 And not, of course if I'm a good misery addict and murder,
15:58 I'll take it all and really make myself upset about it.
16:01 And at the same time I'm sensitive to the concern
16:05 that I might exceed your boundaries,
16:07 if--you were mentoring a few minutes ago
16:09 about a church situation.
16:12 If you were on the nominating committee of the church,
16:16 and you were to come to me with the invitation
16:19 that I hold a church office working with the young people
16:22 or something like that.
16:23 And I have a busy schedule and I decide that
16:26 I'm not that I'm not going to exceed my limits.
16:31 So I say no, Shelley, I really can't do that.
16:33 If you come back to me with this guilting statement like,
16:37 well, Carol if you don't do that
16:39 the young people wont' be adequately cared for.
16:42 You know, or we won't be able to have a department
16:45 where the young people needs are met.
16:47 And you guilt me a little bit for it
16:49 then you are invading my emotional
16:52 and spiritual boundary. Okay.
16:55 So I need to be able again to say,
16:57 I understand that Shelley,
16:59 in my mind I'm not gonna state this to you,
17:01 that Shelley has issues of concern
17:03 because she might have loved once
17:06 who would, you know,
17:07 she would want me to be working with.
17:11 But that's about her and her history.
17:12 That's not about me and God will provide
17:15 someone to take care of that position.
17:17 I don't have to do it.
17:18 So I don't have to upset myself unduly
17:21 or take on the job with helping you find someone
17:23 because that's your job.
17:25 And you know there is,
17:26 I think when you are talking right now
17:29 as you are speaking with all probably
17:32 across someone else's boundary.
17:33 Oh! Indeed.
17:34 And so Setting boundaries is one of the thing,
17:37 learning how to set boundaries
17:38 and I thought that would probably
17:40 be the most difficult thing because as I said
17:42 I had such a difficult time in learning to say no.
17:45 People could guilt me into anything just about.
17:49 But there comes a time when your health,
17:51 you know, I nearly ran my health into the ground
17:54 and I'm complaining and saying
17:56 Lord I'm so overbooked, and I'm doing this and this
17:58 and He was like I'm not setting
18:00 your schedule, you are. Right, right.
18:02 You know and so I had to learn to put limitations.
18:06 But as you are speaking now, it occurs to me
18:10 that it maybe more difficult to break the habit
18:14 of overriding someone else's boundaries.
18:18 We've to learn how to accept the no
18:21 from another person. Yes.
18:22 Without arguing, without manipulating--
18:25 And jelling. Without trying to talk
18:27 them out of it. You know,
18:29 if another, my brain isn't in your head
18:31 and your brain isn't in my head.
18:33 So we don't think alike.
18:35 Therefore, if you have thoughts
18:36 that are different than mine
18:37 or if you experience the situation
18:39 differently than I did, and you describe it
18:42 differently than I would, I don't have to correct you.
18:46 It's kind of funny how we can so hung up on tiny details.
18:50 When someone else is telling a story,
18:51 and we have to amend the details of their story
18:55 because it didn't happen Monday,
18:56 it happened Tuesday, as if it matters, you know, but--
19:01 Have you ever watched Husbands and Wives?
19:03 I mean, we, all do that, right?
19:05 Yes. We all see it differently and we all are--
19:07 And nobody cares what interstate highway we were on.
19:11 If the listener who is hearing the story doesn't care
19:14 what day it happened, Yes.
19:16 and yet we have to correct our partners over
19:18 minute details like that and nobody cares about.
19:21 So that's invading.
19:22 That is invading another person's boundary.
19:24 Okay. You get to tell your story in your own way.
19:28 And if I sit here and I'm disagreeing
19:30 with what you are saying I hold my peace,
19:33 that self containment.
19:35 And that's when I need to learn a little bit better,
19:37 I'll confess.
19:40 So what are some of the boundaries say
19:44 between husbands and wives?
19:45 That's a good one right there I would say.
19:47 Hmm-- I think household duties,
19:50 finances, child rearing practices,
19:54 even religious beliefs and practices.
19:57 So when we say boundaries sometimes another way to say
20:00 is that these are expect we're letting someone know
20:04 our expectations and have to be realistic
20:07 and acceptable by that person,
20:08 not always so on a boundary.
20:10 But in a husband and wife relationship there is usually,
20:14 you know, some type of expectation
20:18 from the other. Sure.
20:19 Now give us some more specific examples of marriage.
20:23 I think that boundaries can serve
20:24 a couple extremely well.
20:26 They can restore the respect between two people.
20:29 Again remembering that my partner
20:33 is an individual separate and apart from me
20:36 with different ways of doing things,
20:37 different ways of seeing things,
20:39 and then respecting their right to be different,
20:43 even respecting their right to be wrong. Okay.
20:46 I want people to expect my right to be wrong.
20:49 You know, I often say there is more than one way
20:51 to slice a banana. Okay.
20:53 Explain that because when somebody is gonna sit out
20:55 and say what do you mean expecting
20:58 or respecting my right to be wrong.
21:00 Give me an example.
21:01 Oh, if I quote a text
21:04 and I give the wrong reference,
21:08 you know-- I don't have to.
21:12 You don't have to correct me on the spot.
21:16 I had a potentially embracing situation
21:19 where I had a friend
21:21 who mispronounced a particular word.
21:24 And she was very well educated person,
21:26 better educated than I.
21:27 She had a PhD or two.
21:29 And I thought she was mispronouncing this word
21:32 but somehow I managed to keep my mouth shut,
21:35 which wasn't, didn't come naturally to me.
21:37 I never said anything to her.
21:39 And years after I noticed the way
21:41 she mispronounced that word I was reading a--
21:44 looking into the dictionary and I came across that word
21:46 and I discovered that the way she pronounced
21:48 was the second pronunciation in the dictionary.
21:52 What a fool I would made of myself
21:54 if I had done what came naturally
21:56 and tried to correct the way she pronounced that word.
21:59 You see. Yeah.
22:01 So let's talk about
22:02 the related concepts to boundaries.
22:06 I think you, in your book
22:08 identified four related concepts to boundaries.
22:11 Okay. Okay.
22:14 Okay, we each have the right to determine physical distance
22:19 and touch between ourselves and another person.
22:23 You know, I mentioned that I'm a huggy,
22:25 touchy type person.
22:26 And I do ask are you a hugger
22:27 if I'm getting ready to hug a woman.
22:29 Now one thing with a man,
22:30 I'm usually a little more careful
22:32 and if a man is coming towards me to,
22:35 who is a hugger
22:37 and I don't feel comfortable with him,
22:38 I put my hand out right away
22:40 and it's like saying to him that's my boundary.
22:43 Occasionally I've met men who want to hug-up close
22:47 because I 'm tall.
22:48 This is a benefit that I kind of will touch
22:52 a man's face and put my arm between us
22:55 so that no one can hug me too tight.
22:58 You know, there is the A-frame hug,
23:00 the side hug, but what is a good way to establish.
23:06 There used to be a gentleman who was in ministry.
23:09 And he just was a close hugger.
23:10 And I was very uncomfortable with that.
23:12 That's when I learnt to touch his face
23:14 and put my hand in between.
23:16 How do you establish that and not be awkward?
23:21 You've identified the best way.
23:23 it is usually about body language. Okay.
23:26 Or if someone if you know that
23:28 someone tends to clinch too tightly
23:31 when they hug you, you get to them first
23:33 and give them that sideways hug if you prefer.
23:37 Sometimes you've to straight arms somebody
23:39 in extreme cases or even say something verbally
23:42 and it's legitimate to do that.
23:43 The important thing is that we know in our minds
23:46 and in our hearts that it's okay for us
23:49 to determine how close
23:52 we want to come to another person.
23:54 No one has the right to touch us without our permission.
23:57 And so the--and nor do we have the right to touch them
24:01 without their permission.
24:02 One of the ways also that you can teach other people
24:04 how do you wanna be treated in that
24:05 regard is to treat them that way.
24:08 Ask them if it's okay for you to give them a hug.
24:10 I think we should do that with our own children
24:12 and own spouses.
24:14 Even though it's implicit in the relationship that is okay,
24:18 I usually ask my grandchildren
24:20 if I can give them a hug because I want them to know
24:23 that I respect their need for space and distance.
24:27 And there are times when someone is upset
24:29 or something is going on
24:31 they may not want to hug and you know so.
24:34 Right. Okay.
24:35 So that's the physicality.
24:37 Now we've talked enough about the sexuality earlier
24:40 I believe in the program.
24:41 Let's talk about feelings some more.
24:44 The third concept that we based our boundary
24:47 setting on is that we as individuals are responsible
24:52 for how we feel and for sharing how we feel.
24:57 And we are not responsible for how anyone else feels,
25:00 assuming, of course, that we have an overtly,
25:04 directly violated them.
25:06 So essentially I don't get to blame you
25:11 for how you are feeling in any given moment
25:13 and you don't get to blame me or hold me responsible.
25:15 So I'm not going to say
25:16 you made me feel such and such. Okay.
25:19 I'm going to say when such and such happened
25:20 I felt so and so.
25:22 And I'm gonna recognize that my feelings are about me.
25:25 They're not about you.
25:26 I'm not going to try to make them about you.
25:29 Unless you've directly offended me
25:31 in which case I will simply say to you when that happened
25:34 I felt so and so and I need to ask you not to do that again.
25:37 Yes. So I don't get to blame you
25:40 for how I feel or hold you responsible.
25:42 And I don't have to make myself
25:43 responsible for anyone else.
25:46 And that's, you know, that's a good thing
25:48 because so many of us people will come up
25:50 and they try to make us responsible
25:53 and we feel guilt and shame and we don't know
25:56 how to do something differently.
25:58 But that's an excellent point.
25:59 Okay. So then how do we take in,
26:04 I mean, how do you we get the information?
26:06 You are talking about the intellectual boundary.
26:09 You are looking at the intellectual boundary.
26:10 Again we have physical boundaries,
26:12 sexual boundaries, emotional boundaries
26:14 and intellectual boundaries.
26:15 And intellectual boundary allows me to hear
26:18 what you say or read something out of a book.
26:21 See it, hear it, listen, assess, and decide for myself
26:25 what I will think, knowing that I'm responsible
26:27 for the outcome of my thinking, you know.
26:30 So I accept that responsibility.
26:32 But you can say something to me.
26:33 If I lack in intellectual boundary,
26:36 I will let whatever you say or think
26:38 determine what I believe.
26:41 This is kind of what Paul was talking about
26:43 people who are like every wind of doctrine
26:46 that comes along that they change. Right.
26:49 So I mean that is very serious
26:52 and sincere as far as Christians are concerned.
26:55 You know, I bring everything.
26:56 I read books of many different authors
26:58 and they are not all Adventist authors.
27:00 But then I always look back to the Bible.
27:04 So that's kind of my boundary is the Bible
27:06 when I'm reading other Christian works.
27:08 If it doesn't line up with the Bible,
27:10 I don't both take it in. Right.
27:12 But you are also saying this is about all information.
27:16 For example you go to a public university
27:19 and you taught Evolution as a fact.
27:21 And we know that we believe in creation.
27:25 So we can learn about the theory of Evolution,
27:30 but that's my boundary is I still see it as a theory.
27:34 But I don't have to refuse to read something
27:36 just because I believe the author said something
27:38 I don't agree with.
27:39 I can use my intellectual boundary
27:41 and still get the good from what they have to teach me.
27:44 That's wonderful.
27:45 You know we've again just touched
27:47 on the tip of the iceberg here,
27:49 but Carol thank you because this has been
27:51 very thought-provoking.
27:53 Thanks so much for being with us today.
27:55 You know our time just flies by.
27:57 We need to keep a better eye on the clock.
27:59 But I want to encourage you be like Joshua
28:03 and set that boundary and say,
28:05 "For me and my house, I will serve the Lord."
28:08 Thanks for joining us.