Participants: Ruthie Jacobsen (Host), Pr. Roy Rugless
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000394
00:01 There is a wonderful little story that comes out
00:03 of the United Kingdom, I think its Scotland.
00:06 You are gonna love it a sweet, sweet story, but
00:10 teaches such powerful principles,
00:13 life changing principles. We'll be right back.
00:41 Welcome to Issues and Answers.
00:44 The issue that I'd like for us to think about together
00:47 today is, have you read the little book try giving
00:51 yourself away, it's a good little book I think its out
00:55 to print now, but that is our theme for this program,
01:00 try giving yourself away. And I believe that comes
01:04 from the Lord himself. There is a text in scripture
01:07 that tells us the Lord has a big plan for us. In Psalm 80,
01:15 David is saying let your hand be upon the man
01:18 of your right hand, upon the son of man who made,
01:21 you made strong for yourself. God says I want
01:25 to make you strong because I have a plan for you.
01:29 I want you to do something for me, revive us then we
01:32 will not turn back from you revive us and we will
01:35 call upon your name. So, the Lord is saying,
01:38 I want you to cooperate with me,
01:39 I'm gonna put my hand on you but I want to revive you,
01:43 I want to give you strength and help because
01:46 I have something that I want you to do.
01:50 And then in that next chapter Verse 7 you called
01:54 on me in trouble and I delivered you.
01:57 God has a message that he wants you to give to others.
02:02 He has something that he wants you to do for him.
02:05 In Psalm 149 Verse 4 the Lord takes pleasure in
02:11 his people, he will beautify the humble with salvation.
02:16 I want to tell you a story about a humble little boy.
02:20 He was 8-years-old in his church and the deacon
02:26 was passing the offering basket and apparently it was
02:30 a large basket, when he came to this 8-year-old boy;
02:35 the boy tugged on his sleeve and he said put the basket
02:41 on the floor. And the deacon said that's strange,
02:46 I'm not gonna do that. But he couldn't for some
02:50 reason walk on and just ignore that request
02:54 and the little boy repeated it, please put the basket
02:57 on the floor. And the thought came to the Deacon well
03:01 he is not a bad boy, he is not gonna do something
03:04 bad here, so he wrestled with this strange request,
03:09 finally he put the basket on the floor.
03:13 The little boy stepped into the basket and he said
03:18 I am the offering. Amen.
03:20 I am the offering. That is our question to you,
03:26 to me and to each one of us God wants you and me to be
03:31 the offering. He wants us to give ourselves so
03:35 completely to him that we can be used for
03:39 whatever task he has for us, for his glory.
03:43 I want you to meet my special guest today,
03:46 my friend Pastor Roy Rugless. Thank you for being here.
03:49 Thank you for having me. And Roy you are Pastor
03:54 in Tennessee, Nashville. No, I Pastor in Athens,
03:58 Alabama, but I also have an administrative position
04:01 in Nashville, Tennessee. In Nashville, Tennessee,
04:02 okay, alright. But you live and Pastor in Athens Alabama,
04:07 correct. Is that North, South, East,
04:10 West where is that in Alabama? That is in the Northern
04:13 part of Alabama, west of Huntsville,
04:17 Alabama that's where we are. Okay, and you
04:19 but you also work with Pastors and Church members
04:22 in five states. Yes mam, cover five states.
04:25 Tell us where that is? Alabama, Mississippi,
04:29 Tennessee, Kentucky, and Northwest part of Florida,
04:33 I am all over the place. Wow. And I'm still pastoring
04:35 and is killing me. But it's a joy, it is, it is,
04:39 it's a joy, it's a joy. But you do have a message
04:43 of hope and it's about prayer and praying
04:46 for the Holy Spirit, yes. And the pastors in these
04:49 five states, yes, yes, are appreciating this,
04:52 yes they are, and the Lord is changing them.
04:54 Yes, they are. Yes they are. We talked about
04:57 that in another show that we did together of
05:01 Issues and Answers and you might just take a minute
05:05 to bring everybody up to speed that may not have
05:09 seen that the Lord is pouring out his Spirit, yes, he is.
05:13 I want to say though talking about that experience
05:18 those of you who work with us at our last telecast
05:20 we had an experience, where the Holy Sprit was
05:23 poured out upon the leaders of our Church.
05:25 We got all the pastors together and we experience
05:30 Pentecost, hearts were broken,
05:31 confessions were made, a repentance was done,
05:35 we praised the Lord, testimonies were given and
05:38 the Holy Spirit came, but Ruthie I want to share
05:40 something based on your theme of sacrifice.
05:44 We have a Latino contingent in our organization,
05:51 they are embryonic, just getting started and our
05:55 conference unfortunately does not, can I, can I interrupt
05:58 again, yes mam, when you were talking about
06:01 what happened and this was at Indian creek in Tennessee
06:03 yes in Tennessee, where the Holy Spirit just met
06:06 this group of pastors in a powerful way.
06:09 I want to ask you and that really is intrude with
06:12 what we are talking about today and that is why,
06:16 why do you think the Lord was there in that group
06:19 with the pastors, why was he there in power?
06:23 He was there in power because first of all the Lord
06:27 wants to do a special work in the world, that's right,
06:30 he wants men and women to be prepared for his
06:34 second coming, that's right. The only way that's
06:36 gonna happen is through the outpouring of the
06:39 Holy Spirit who God gives to give us power to go
06:43 out and tell people to get ready and also to get
06:46 ready ourselves, but we need to understand that
06:49 the people follow the leaders, that's right,
06:52 so the leaders now have to get on board so that
06:54 they could take it back their churches, that's right,
06:57 so that's what that was all about. And that's what,
06:58 why I believe the Lord met you in a very special
07:01 and powerful way with all of those pastors. Yes.
07:05 And church leaders, yes. Because he was saying
07:07 I want to equip you, I want to empower you the
07:11 pastors had an experience that they've never
07:13 experienced before in their lives. I have never
07:16 experienced anything like that, I mean there
07:17 is one thing to talk about the Holy Spirit is another
07:20 thing to experience him working in your life, but
07:24 to receive it in its fullness where you are just over
07:28 shadowed and you know this is God.
07:30 You know it's God. Yeah, It's almost like Moses
07:34 when he went upon Mount Sinai, he is in the presence
07:37 of God. This is like on the mount of transfiguration,
07:40 when the Holy Spirit came in the presence of God
07:44 came in and the disciples they just overwhelmed
07:47 and you know Roy, you can live your whole life,
07:51 you can live your whole life reading and hearing
07:54 what God is doing in the lives of other people that
07:57 you may miss it. You can live your whole life and
08:00 never really see God do something awesome,
08:03 that's right, that he wants to do in your life,
08:05 in your life. And I just want to appeal to all of us
08:08 let's ask the Lord what he wants to do for you,
08:12 for me. Yes, on a daily basis, yes, he wants to do
08:16 something to take us out of the ordinary.
08:19 I don't really think that God is very interested or very
08:24 impressed with what you and I can do without him.
08:27 Do you? I agree with you 1000%. I don't think,
08:32 he is very impressed with what you and I can do,
08:36 we are totally depending on him. Yes, yes,
08:39 but now let me take it a step further because
08:41 I want to get back to your theme of giving up
08:43 yourselves yes, yes, if you understand that the goal
08:47 of the gospel is to be like God that's the transformation
08:51 process where it's supposed to be coming like God.
08:54 God is love, I mean that's the bottom-line,
08:58 God is love. And encapsulated in his love is one
09:03 of giving, that's right, one of sacrifice, that's right,
09:06 you know the devil was amazed Ruthie after
09:10 he got kicked out of Heaven, he was amazed that God
09:15 would go to such lengths as to sacrifice his son
09:21 and for Christ to go to such lengths as to sacrifice
09:25 his life. So, that we could live the essence,
09:31 the essence of love is self sacrifice. That's right,
09:35 giving of ones self. Don't you think the angels
09:39 were amazed at Calvary oh yes, I was reading
09:44 a story where once the angels understood what Christ
09:50 was getting ready to do that they themselves
09:53 wanted to give themselves instead of letting Christ
09:57 give himself. They didn't want that to happen
09:59 to him. They didn't want that to happen to him.
10:00 But it also showed that spirit of love which is in
10:04 outgrowth of self sacrifice and it comes from the father.
10:06 That's who is. That's right, that's the mind blower,
10:10 that's right, God is a God who gives of himself and gives
10:14 himself, that's the mind blower and isn't it beautiful
10:18 when you see him working and transforming his people
10:22 to think of someone else first because we on this planet
10:28 are a bunch of selfish human beings who think of ourselves
10:32 first, I mean that is just the way we are. Ever since
10:34 the fall whether we like to admit it or not,
10:37 ever since the fall our minds have been worked
10:39 and twisted and now we have become very selfish
10:44 people. I think one of high attributes of Christianity
10:48 is the one of self sacrifice, now that's hard to do,
10:51 you know what it's easy to give of what is in abundance,
10:57 but it is very challenging to give up our necessity
11:01 and I'd like to suggest that one of the hallmarks of true
11:04 Christianity is being able to give up ones necessity.
11:08 But you know I want to take you back to Roy because
11:12 the little boy who stepped in the basket, his name was
11:17 Robert Moffat. And God saw the heart of that little
11:23 8-year-old boy and he said you want to be my offering,
11:29 you are offering yourself to me I'll take you,
11:33 I'll take you to the heart of Africa. I'll give you
11:37 William Livingston, I'll give you David Livingston
11:43 as your son-in-law, I will left the two of you change
11:47 the heart of Africa, I'll do something to show my love
11:51 to that huge continent. Here is a boy
11:55 8-years-old who gave himself, who said Lord I want
11:58 you to take me, I am the offering, isn't that
12:00 something. The Lord takes us, yes,
12:02 he is glad to see that here is a child who is serious,
12:07 he wants all of us, let me go back to the Bible,
12:10 you remember the widow with two mites, that's right,
12:12 there were people who had great sums of money,
12:16 that's right, who gave the offering and God was not,
12:20 Jesus was not impressed, that woman she only had
12:23 two mites but in that two mites was a whole living
12:27 her rent groceries all of that. She gave of herself
12:32 that's all she had. That's all she had
12:34 and God said she gave more than anybody else.
12:37 See God wants us, he wants our hearts when
12:41 he has our hearts then he has us. He wants us,
12:44 that's right. So, so that's one of the goals of Gospel
12:47 that we gonna be like God. We gonna have to give
12:51 like God and like you said because of sin we are so
12:54 selfish and self centered and so the transformation
12:57 process is to take us out of ourselves to be like God
13:01 to give of ourselves. But, we don't have the desire,
13:05 no or the ability, no, unless we go to his word,
13:10 unless we go to our knees and say Lord what does
13:13 this look like, what does this look like in my life,
13:16 I'll tell you a little story, okay, there was an elderly
13:20 gentlemen at the pharmacy, who discovered and he
13:25 was very embarrassed that he didn't have enough
13:27 money to get his medications. He thought the co-pay
13:31 was less and so he was standing there in bewilderment
13:37 wondering what he should do, if he should just leave
13:39 the medication there, but he knew he needed that
13:42 medication. There was a young man standing behind
13:46 him waiting and he heard the conversation between
13:50 the pharmacist and this elderly man and he said just a
13:55 minute he tapped him on the shoulder and he said
13:59 just a minute, he was a jogger,
14:00 he have been out jogging and he had just
14:01 stopped to get something cold to drink, but he ran out
14:05 to his car went to his place where he lived came back
14:08 with his wallet and he paid, the difference paid
14:11 for the medication for this man.
14:15 And so while he was waiting he was just
14:17 sitting there waiting when the man,
14:18 the jogger came back and he said okay let's get this.
14:21 So, he paid for the medications patted the guy
14:24 on the back, he said why would you do this?
14:27 He said you needed the medication and I am happy
14:32 to do that for you, he said are you a Christian? Wow.
14:37 He said well yes I am, where do you go to Church?
14:40 Come on, say sorry, where do you go to church
14:43 and do you know the man went to that Church found
14:47 the pastor and he said I want to tell you why I am here,
14:51 why I am here see that may not have been a big deal,
14:56 but when you are willing to be used, when you have gone
15:00 to the Lord in the morning and said to him just take me,
15:03 take me on an adventure with you, use me, yes.
15:08 Then the Lord says okay stay alert,
15:11 pay attention because I will take you to places where
15:15 I want to speak to somebody's heart, yes, yes.
15:19 Now, that only happens when we have the Holy Spirit
15:23 that's right, the Holy Spirit is the only one who can first
15:26 of all give us the desire and then empowers to do,
15:30 that's right. Let me go back to Indian Creek once.
15:34 Yes. We prayed for the Holy Spirit, we pray for the
15:36 outpouring and in the midst of our meeting we had a
15:42 Latino group of pastors as I mentioned earlier
15:46 who are just starting to do work in our conference,
15:50 Oh, yeah I am glad you got back to that.
15:51 Our conference does not have the funds to really
15:54 sustain the ministry like we want to or
15:55 we are able only to hire just the few pastors here
15:58 and there, but we want to do more, but because
16:01 of budget limitations we are not able let me tell you
16:03 something what happened with the Holy Spirit.
16:06 We got those Latino pastors together made a circle
16:12 around them. How many were they?
16:14 They had to be about maybe five or six Latino pastors
16:18 it's just the work has just started and they're
16:19 scattered all over the five states, scattered all over
16:21 the five states, we got those Latino Pastors together
16:27 they told us about their pay there are some of the
16:30 pastors who are working without pay,
16:33 there are some pastors who only can work part-time
16:37 they got to, see their Bible occasional and the bad
16:41 thing about it those who are not working for pay
16:43 those who are not only getting part time salary
16:45 have two or three churches as many churches
16:48 as full time people have and they're still out there
16:51 and they're praising the Lord, they're testifying
16:55 about his goodness, they're talking about how souls
16:57 are coming in, because they are seeing him work
16:59 but the thing about it here the other pastors
17:02 there who are getting full time salaries and these
17:05 guys who are not getting anything and they are
17:08 working as hard if not harder than the rest let me
17:12 tell you about the Holy Spirit let me tell you what
17:13 happened after they told a story,
17:16 they told a story about how they turn to build
17:18 a Church without money and all that kind
17:20 of stuff. After they told a story we got all the
17:23 Latino pastors together and we made a circle around
17:27 them, we laid hands on them, and we started
17:29 praying and let me tell you what happened,
17:31 you are not gonna believe this. Sure I will. But I
17:35 wanna hear. You know part of prayer is interceding for
17:41 others, that's right, that's right, selfishness thinks
17:45 about self when we pray sometime Lord I need this,
17:47 help me with this, give me that. But when you really
17:49 are doing true prayer, you are not, you are not before
17:53 you even ask for yourself you ask for others that's
17:56 real praying interceding for others. Ruthie,
17:59 that's right, we had an intersession prayer for the
18:03 Latino Pastors, we went around the circle,
18:06 the pastor was just crying out for the Lord to do
18:09 something to help them with the work I mean the
18:12 Holy Spirit was there but not this is, that goes back
18:14 to the Psalms. David did that too.
18:17 Yes, he said cry out to the Lord, cry out, cry out, but
18:20 this is the equinox of this whole experience in
18:24 the praying one of the pastors talking about sacrifice now.
18:29 He is praying this prayer, he says Lord I'm committing
18:33 half of my salary, I'm committing half of my salary
18:39 to help these pastors and then some of the other
18:42 pastor Lord I'm committing half of my salary I'm telling
18:46 you the Holy Spirit just came over and gave us
18:48 the spirit of sacrifice that the pastors were crying
18:52 out Lord I'm willing to give of what I have so that
18:56 this work could go forward. Is it you're talking
18:58 about the spirit of sacrifice that's what the Holy Spirit
19:00 will do, that's a miracle, that's a miracle,
19:01 that's what the Holy Spirit will do. Amen.
19:03 Because what is he trying to do, he is trying to give
19:05 us to be like God. And to change our hearts and God
19:08 is a sacrificial God who gave up himself as a matter
19:13 of fact, that's right, when you understand the story
19:17 not only the Christ died but apart of God left him
19:21 as well. How do you, how do you, how do you think
19:24 a pair would feel watching his son die or giving
19:28 of themselves that was part of God who died as well,
19:32 yes, yes, we serve a sacrificial God and if we are
19:36 supposed to be like God we also should be sacrificial,
19:40 we all should be giving and let me take you a step
19:43 further not only do we need to give our means but
19:48 we need to give up our time that's right,
19:51 we need to give up ourselves that's right,
19:53 whatever God asks us to do, none of what we have
19:58 belongs to us, the clothes that we have on our bags,
20:01 that's right. Does not belong to us, right,
20:04 it comes from God I told you true story, true story.
20:08 Well, the other one was true too. And that was powerful,
20:14 beautiful, okay let's have another true story,
20:17 I was, I was, I was a student at Oakwood college
20:21 and didn't have a lot of clothes, but I had a few
20:27 and there was a student a friend of mine who
20:30 came over and we were just talking, and he talked
20:32 about how he didn't have any clothes,
20:35 he had to wear the same clothes everyday
20:38 and now the Holy Spirit
20:39 telling go in your closet and give
20:45 him some of your clothes. Share what you have.
20:46 I told the Holy Spirit I can't do that,
20:49 I only have few to wear how in the world
20:51 and you know let's somebody
20:52 do this that has more than I have got,
20:55 there you go and some of the stuff that I had
20:56 was really nice stuff, Lord I can't do that,
20:59 the Holy Spirit says give him what you have.
21:04 The Holy Spirit broke me down and you know sometimes
21:08 Ruthie how we want to give stuff that's not that good,
21:11 which you didn't like anyway. That's our human nature,
21:15 let me tell you what he said, the Holy Spirit directed
21:17 give him your best suit, give him your best shirt,
21:23 give him your, Ruthie, that's sacrifice,
21:26 Ruthie there was something that went in me that says
21:29 no I can't do this, but there was something else
21:32 inside me that says if you want to be like God
21:34 this is how God is, God gave us his best Amen.
21:38 And I want to let you know that I got even
21:39 though it was a struggle I was just starting my Christian
21:44 journey I had just come into the church went
21:46 to Oakwood, and the Lord was teaching you something
21:48 big. He was sharing he was trying to transform me.
21:52 That's right, so that was my test and all of us are
21:54 going to be tested, we may not be tested
21:55 in the same way but we're all gonna be tested
21:58 and one of the test is giving Abraham, that's right,
22:02 that's right, his only son, but now Roy I love that
22:07 story and what when you gave this other student
22:12 the clothes what happened to him and to you.
22:16 Lord was rooting selfishness out of me.
22:19 That's right, he was rooting selfishness out of me
22:22 and I was able to minister to that, that man
22:25 and joy came over his face and he says man you
22:28 given me your best and he was very appreciative,
22:31 that's what the gospel is all about, that's right,
22:32 the gospel is all about touching others,
22:35 preaching others, but I believe that there
22:37 is another lesson in that, what's that when you
22:39 give yourself away, when you give yourself
22:42 to the Lord for whatever he has for you,
22:44 you cannot out give the Lord. Oh, he blesses
22:48 abundantly. And you know what he just to be
22:51 honest with you God really doesn't need
22:53 what we have, I'm gonna go back to tie an
22:55 offering, you know the Bible talks about how we are
22:58 supposed to return 10%, it doesn't belong to us,
23:01 it belongs to God and then give the offering, but,
23:05 but, but God doesn't need it. This God who leads,
23:10 who owns everything do you think he really needs
23:12 our money, no, no, no, no the reason,
23:15 one of the reason, he needs our hearts,
23:16 there you go, and one of the reasons he does that
23:19 he wants to provide funds for the gospel to go out,
23:23 but I think even more important he wants to
23:25 transform us, he wants to root out selfishness,
23:27 he wants to, the more we give, the more
23:30 unselfish we become, the more we give the more
23:32 unselfish. So, that eventually we become like him.
23:35 I got to tell you another story, I got so many
23:37 stories, go ahead, go ahead, I got to tell you
23:38 another story, good. I was telling you previously
23:41 about a lady who came who was not a member
23:44 of my Church, who came to my Church to my prayer
23:47 meeting and at testimonies, you always got to
23:51 have testimonies, testimonies are powerful, oh yes,
23:53 that's right, at testimony time in this economic time
23:56 she says she was only working, she was only
24:00 working part time I think she was working 30 hours
24:03 a week and then when the economy hit they
24:06 knocked her down to 15 hours a week and then
24:08 they let her go altogether and she said she
24:11 needed some medication, she didn't even have money
24:15 to go the pharmacy to get any medication at all.
24:18 She didn't even have any food to give her children
24:22 and as I am listening to her, my heart just bleeds,
24:26 my heart just bleeds. And I said this lady needs
24:30 some help, after prayer
24:32 meeting was over, after prayer meeting was over
24:35 I didn't have a lot of money, but I reached in my
24:37 wallet and everything that I had I pulled it out,
24:43 everything that I had I pulled it out,
24:46 and I gave it to her, I gave it to her and you know
24:50 what she says, she says I don't need it, she says
24:53 I am fine now, i didn't know
24:55 that did, but she says I'm fine now,
24:58 are you sure, I said I want you to have this.
24:59 She said I don't need it I'm fine now.
25:02 But before you say anything what the Lord was doing,
25:06 he was testing me again, testing me but you know what,
25:11 this time it wasn't a struggle, it wasn't a struggle,
25:15 I had no, I had no reservations it gets easier,
25:18 it gets easier, obedience prepares you for the next step.
25:22 I was willing I didn't think
25:24 of myself, I didn't think this is
25:26 everything that I have where is where is the next dollar
25:30 coming from that's growth, that's right, that's right,
25:33 and that's like Abraham on the mountain with Isaac.
25:37 The Lord was asking him to sacrifice because he was
25:40 testing Abraham's heart, yes, yes, let me say this
25:44 because our time is almost running out.
25:46 When you understand God, God is love, when you look
25:53 at his commandments his 10 commandments that
25:56 nothing more than love, the first four commandments
26:00 deal with love to God, that's right, last six commandments
26:03 deal with love to your fellow man, right. If we love God,
26:07 if we have true love we will love God and we will love
26:11 our fellow man. How do we love God,
26:14 we give ourselves back to him, that's right,
26:16 how do we love our fellow man we give ourselves
26:18 to our fellow men that's commandment keeping,
26:20 that's right, its not a list of thou shall not and what
26:26 you cannot do and prohibitions it's all about love,
26:29 that's right, and if we really understand love in his true
26:31 sense, love is nothing more than giving,
26:34 giving ourselves to God and giving
26:37 ourselves to our fellow men.
26:39 And no wonder he tells us that's fullness of joy,
26:43 oh wonderful, oh wonderful, fullness of joy, fullness
26:46 that's real happiness, that's right, Amen.
26:50 that's real happiness, I wish I had time to I got
26:53 another story but I know you are getting ready to rap
26:55 this thing up. Well, our time is about gone, but
26:58 I would like to say our viewers thank you so much
27:01 for allowing us to come into your homes and we just
27:04 want to say that we pray for you, we pray that these
27:10 programs will be a help in your lives as they are in ours.
27:14 We just pray that that God will show you daily how he
27:18 wants you to give yourself away, because he wants
27:22 to bring each one us to a deeper level of joy. Amen.
27:26 A deeper level of usefulness and understanding him
27:29 better and he tells us in Daniel 11:32 those who know
27:36 him intimately are privileged and he says
27:40 I'll make you strong and able to do bold and daring
27:43 things. So, if you are frightened, if you are afraid
27:46 to do some of these things. God will make you strong,
27:51 because he has a plan that is so big, so huge,
27:55 so much bigger than anything we could ever
27:58 imagine. So, daily let's begin the day by saying
28:01 dear God I just want to give myself to you,
28:05 I want to give myself to your plan and let
28:07 him surprise you, it's great. God bless you.