Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Duane Anderson, Nancy Anderson
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000372
00:30 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
00:32 and welcome again to Issues and Answers.
00:34 Today we are going to be discussing communication skills,
00:38 talking about how to get to a deeper level with people.
00:42 I believe that there's something fundamental
00:45 about each one of us, a fundamental need
00:48 we want to be understood
00:49 and although no two human beings
00:52 totally understand each other.
00:53 I mean, really I believe the only one
00:55 who understands us is the Lord.
00:58 But yet we as humans and as particularly
01:01 as Christians want to learn how to allow,
01:06 give someone permission to share on a deeper level
01:10 and most of us block that in someway.
01:13 You know, Jesus said in Matthew 5:7
01:16 in the Sermon on the Mount.
01:18 He said, "Blessed are the merciful
01:20 for they shall receive mercy."
01:23 In other Bible counsels it says,
01:25 "that we are to weep with those who weep
01:27 and rejoice with those rejoice."
01:30 The only way we can do that is if we really
01:34 give people permission to share on a deeper level.
01:38 Now sometimes that sounds a little frightening,
01:41 some of us are kind of off, it's off putting if you will.
01:45 But today returning to share with us today
01:49 our two counselors who know a little bit about this topic
01:53 and let me introduce our special guest
01:55 we have Duane and Nancy Andersen coming to us,
01:58 returning again from Mesa, Arizona.
02:01 Thank you, all so much for being here.
02:02 Thank you. Thank you, too.
02:04 Now your ministry is CARE
02:06 that's an acronym C-A-R-E, C.A.R.E. Consultants.
02:10 Please tell us about that ministry.
02:12 Care and Renewal Education,
02:14 I mean we have a lot of seminars where it includes
02:18 educating a person how to--
02:20 for an example in this case, communicate.
02:23 All right and you have-- you come with the background of
02:27 you've been a pastor and educator,
02:30 you have been-- you've got your master's degree in counseling.
02:34 So you've been doing counseling and Nancy,
02:36 as we discussed last time, your background is nursing
02:40 and also counseling.
02:42 So what we want to talk about today and let's just--
02:46 let me frame this up by saying,
02:49 why are communication skills so important?
02:54 There are the only to really build a deep relationship.
02:59 And if there's anything we really want in life it's a,
03:02 it's a real deep relationship with another person.
03:05 I mean, we can have a, a deep relationship with God
03:08 but it's not really as deep with God even
03:11 until we have another deep relationship with the person.
03:15 There just seems to be that dynamic
03:19 and just like there is a first four commandment
03:21 in relation to God and the,
03:22 the last one relation to, to humans.
03:24 Us humans. Yeah.
03:26 So that's kind of the missing link you might say.
03:30 Okay, so people are wanting to be loved,
03:34 accepted, to feel precious to someone.
03:38 And we're talking today about communicating on a deeper level.
03:43 What do we mean by a deeper level?
03:46 Well, we have a tendency talk from the head
03:49 rather than the heart.
03:51 And so often people want to talk from the heart
03:53 but other people don't know how to listen to the heart talk.
03:57 And particularly what puts people laugh,
03:59 if somebody starts talking from heart and starts crying,
04:02 "oh, I'm sorry I didn't mean to make you cry."
04:05 Or the other person will apologize for crying
04:07 and say, "oh, I shouldn't be crying, you know."
04:09 And so we're not used to going down to these deep levels
04:13 because so often it kicks us into our own pain
04:17 that we many times have not really work through
04:21 and it brings the stuff up and we become uncomfortable.
04:23 So then we do the blocking statements.
04:27 You know, change the subject, try to get out of this thing
04:30 because we start feeling a little uncomfortable with it
04:33 going to that deep level,
04:34 yet that's really what our hearts crave.
04:36 Okay, so give me an example of moving someone from just that
04:40 verbal superficiality if you will to a deeper level.
04:45 Right, you know when I first took some training
04:48 in the listening skills I found it interesting in the ministry.
04:52 At first I thought there were just survival skills you know,
04:55 they would just gonna teach us how to survive rough situations
04:58 but then once I found out that you know,
05:02 well as you start using them the people just love to,
05:05 to be heard.
05:06 I would say something like "okay, let me see,
05:08 if I understand you correctly."
05:09 So you're saying this and this and this, "is that right?"
05:12 And they'll say, "That's right, that's what I'm saying."
05:14 Or if it wasn't right, give me an opportunity to correct me.
05:18 And so then we just go on from there.
05:20 And then I would usually get some kind of a feeling
05:25 of that they might be feeling.
05:27 And then I would check to see of that was, was correct.
05:30 I'd say you something like I'm wondering
05:32 if you're feeling a little anxious.
05:34 You know if that's what I was feeling
05:35 as they were talking to me
05:37 I'm wondering if you're feeling a little anxious about that,
05:39 is that correct?
05:41 And may be one time I was visiting this young woman
05:44 who haven't been to church for years and years and years
05:47 and mother was very concerned about her.
05:50 And when I went over there and talked to her
05:53 and was able to identify exactly how she was feeling
05:57 I was saying after we've talked for quite a while,
06:00 I'm wondering if you're feeling a little trapped,
06:03 is that correct?
06:04 And she just burst into tears and then was crying
06:07 and she says "you know,
06:09 I thought you are coming over here
06:10 to kick me out of the church."
06:12 And so when I was so rewarded to be able to, you know,
06:18 meet her at the deeper level where she was really hurting
06:20 because she had her husband pulling one way
06:22 and she wanted to go the other way
06:25 and then her mother was another way.
06:27 And she just felt trapped and just to know that
06:31 somebody else understood that,
06:33 like you're saying to be understood
06:35 it meant so much to her and she started coming back to church.
06:38 Praise the Lord. Yeah.
06:40 So, Duane, you employed those skills of active listening
06:45 paraphrasing back to her
06:47 until you actually got her to go to a deeper level,
06:51 is that correct? Exactly, yes.
06:53 And you know in that sense I think,
06:56 we came to the place where, where you might say the,
07:00 the bottom feeling that she was having.
07:03 And when we could unlock that
07:06 she thought such a sense of relief.
07:08 And of course so often we end up feeling same thing.
07:12 I mean, if that person is feeling tensed
07:15 like I'd say we tend to, to say,
07:18 well I'm wondering if you're feeling tensed.
07:19 But then when we take a guess I'm wondering
07:22 if you're feeling trapped because that's was what
07:24 I was beginning to sense that she must be feeling trapped
07:28 between her mother, between her husband
07:30 and here she was in the middle
07:32 and she didn't know which way to go.
07:34 Should I go to church
07:35 or the stay home because my of husband.
07:37 And when we hit that
07:38 I'm wondering if you're feeling trapped
07:40 and she just I mean that hit her
07:42 because she just burst into tears.
07:43 Yes, and it wasn't something that I had to be afraid for.
07:46 It was, it was a blessing that
07:49 she was able to relieve that tension and once that was gone
07:52 and she felt free to come back to church.
07:55 You know, so many times that people will say something.
07:57 I mean when the Bible says, weep with those who weep
08:00 and rejoice with those who rejoice.
08:02 Sometimes people can't even put a finger on their own emotions.
08:05 They'd just, they're all bottled up they may feel numbed,
08:08 they may feel overwhelmed. Yeah.
08:10 But in being able to employee good communication skills
08:14 when you start asking stem questions like,
08:17 "I'm wondering if this is what you're feeling or
08:19 is this what you're saying."
08:20 And you start going that direction that makes sense.
08:23 Now there are times that people will say something
08:29 and their body language is saying something else.
08:32 I mean you hear the words coming out verbally,
08:34 you've probably gone through this experience yourself
08:36 where someone says something to you
08:38 and you look at them in their tone
08:40 or their body language is completely different.
08:43 What do you do when that happens and you just sense that
08:47 what someone is saying, you know, "are you all right?"
08:50 "I'm fine." You know, you sense.
08:52 How do you communicate listening
08:56 using that great listening skill with body language, Nancy?
09:00 Well, you can ask, you can just share your
09:04 observation with them.
09:05 I noticed that when you were telling me about
09:09 this time when your, your grandmother was dying
09:12 and you had to go this funeral and you were laughing.
09:17 You know, I don't understand that.
09:18 What, what was you know, what was going on there
09:21 because the-- it's confusing for you.
09:25 They're telling you about a time when normally you'd have sorrow,
09:29 you'd have tears and they're laughing.
09:32 And so it gives a disconnect and so
09:38 when you confront them with that
09:40 and not in a harsh way but you just verbalize.
09:43 Well, I noticed you're telling me about the funeral
09:44 which would be as-- you know, you'd be sorry about that but
09:47 you're laughing about that, what's behind the--
09:50 what's behind your feeling, what are you feeling?
09:51 And then sometimes people will use humor to mask
09:56 you know sorrow and sadness.
09:58 And they condemn began to have the confidence
10:02 that you're willing to listen
10:03 and maybe they'll be brave enough to share.
10:06 Well, you know they were really close to their grandmother
10:08 or they had special feelings and so
10:12 but they've never been able to cry
10:14 or they've had to be strong in their family
10:16 or whatever and so they've never
10:17 had anyone actually acknowledged.
10:20 They have emotions and that they're valid
10:22 and they need to be able to share those freely.
10:24 And so when you give them that permission
10:27 they can choose to, to share or not to share.
10:30 Now what if someone is talking to you
10:32 and one of those you know like well
10:36 I'm fine but their body language you-- the tone,
10:42 you know they're anything but fine.
10:44 How do you get, if you, if you see anger in someone
10:48 do you want to come right out and say "are you angry?"
10:52 Well, it depends on how well you know the person.
10:54 If you know them real well you might say that
10:56 but if you don't you just say something like, you know,
10:59 you seemed rather tensed when you said that.
11:02 I was wondering if there was anything behind that
11:05 that you like to share.
11:06 Just give them again an opportunity to share
11:08 if they would want to.
11:10 And sometimes like Jesus who talked to Peter three times,
11:15 "Peter, do you love Me?"
11:16 You know, it took three times to really to get this to soak in
11:19 and there is little key there.
11:21 Sometimes, sometimes we give up too easy, you know,
11:24 or we're worried that we're gonna get on the hot seat here.
11:27 It's gonna affect us negatively and so we want to jump out.
11:32 But you know if, if sometimes we might have to comeback
11:35 and just gently comeback two or three times, you know,
11:38 I mean, sure you don't want push to the point
11:42 if the person is just, its escalating
11:44 it's getting worse and you don't see anyway out of it.
11:47 You know, you can just leave it with something like,
11:49 "okay, well if you do I want to talk about it sometime
11:51 I'm open for it."
11:53 But very often the person does.
11:55 You know, Herod studied that out in the Greek
11:57 where Jesus was talking to Peter it's really interesting,
12:00 because what Jesus is actually ask Him is,
12:02 "do you agape Me?
12:03 Do you love Me unconditionally?
12:06 And Peter said, "I phileo." Right.
12:08 "I love you like a brother."
12:09 And then He said "do you agape,
12:11 do you love Me unconditionally?" "No, phileo."
12:13 And finally he says "do you phileo?"
12:16 The three times, exactly. You know, so it was interesting,
12:18 how Jesus changed in His communication
12:21 and brought it down to Peter's level--
12:23 Precisely. Correctly because it's comfortable.
12:25 He was the ultimate communicator.
12:28 So it's not we've talked about how to approach
12:32 someone that has anger
12:33 and we want to be careful in using these skills
12:35 because you don't want get punched in the nose.
12:37 You want to make sure it's not your body language.
12:40 Yeah. That's off putting to someone.
12:42 But what, what happens when you have someone
12:46 who's yelling at you, shouting at you
12:50 and you just assume yell back at them?
12:55 How do you defuse this one?
12:57 Right, you have those kind of situations
12:59 where you're feelings are building in a negative way,
13:01 you know and you don't want to make a situation worse.
13:05 So you can't do what's called,
13:07 directly express how you're feeling but doing in a way
13:10 that's going to make the situation
13:14 to facilitate to continue to go on.
13:16 So you might say well, I'm-- I'm feeling kind of uptight
13:19 myself right now but I do want to hear
13:21 what you have to say please go on.
13:24 And that facilitates them to go on and again, if they're--
13:29 Well, may ask you would you say,
13:31 "you're making me feel uptight or would you just say I'm."
13:34 So you're owning it instead of putting the blame on them,
13:37 Yeah, because as soon as you start some kind of communication
13:39 like that putting the blame on them or something like that
13:41 you get into this defensive thing
13:44 and justifying and whatever you know.
13:47 And so it's, it's kind of little skill
13:49 that I've learned just to, you know when,
13:52 when you're caring for a person and loving a person,
13:54 remain neutral yourself because your job
13:57 is to minister to that person, to help that person and,
14:02 and don't get involved in it yourself.
14:04 I mean they might even come out and say
14:07 "well, you wouldn't like that, would you?"
14:09 They well, you know it's, it's not important right now
14:12 what I feel about this,
14:13 I want to hear how you feel about this.
14:15 Because that can be a little way to switch the thing over to you
14:20 and you, you can get caught in things like that.
14:22 Let's make this really practical
14:24 because I know that in our audience
14:27 there is real world problems,
14:29 let's bring this into a husband and wife situation.
14:34 Where there is a lot of shouting going on,
14:37 and there's not a lot of agreement going on.
14:39 If you are the spouse
14:41 who is watching this program today saying,
14:43 "I want to change the way I communicate with my spouse.
14:47 And you know, I'm sick and tired to being yelled at
14:51 and my way of reacting is just to yell back and nothing gets,
14:57 you know it just keeps escalating."
14:59 How-- how can you tell a wife say,
15:04 that maybe has a husband
15:05 that likes to shout the scream
15:07 to approach this man, in a situation like that.
15:10 How can she contain her own negative feelings?
15:14 Is this something you have to practice in advance
15:17 because if somebody is yelling at you and shouting at you
15:20 and there is been history there for many years
15:23 what would you counsel with the women there?
15:25 Well, I have found out that believe or not in individuals
15:29 who have a history of going on and on like this
15:32 and so often the way people have reacted to them
15:35 to trying you know, shut them down.
15:37 That when I gave them an opportunity to keep going,
15:40 keep going, keep going within ten minutes
15:43 it's off the problem because--
15:46 Oh, wait a minute, now okay, stop right there.
15:48 So would you say shutdown. Yeah.
15:50 You're saying that the person who's doing all of the shouting.
15:54 That if you get them instead of shouting back
15:56 and trying to shut them up,
15:58 if you get them in the opportunity
16:00 to totally express themselves
16:02 let that deeper level come out it totally--
16:06 the anger is just kind of,
16:07 it's like steaminess had been blown off.
16:10 Precisely, precisely
16:12 and when I first started on this I thought,
16:14 oh we're gonna be sitting here for a week or so.
16:15 This person just going on and on and on
16:19 when it's gonna end. Okay.
16:21 And I was surprised that you know after like ten minutes
16:24 I just stopped because everybody else had been,
16:28 you know, kind of coming back at them
16:30 or just changing the subject
16:32 or trying to get out of there as quick as they can.
16:35 Or in the case of a spouse they might burst into tears
16:38 or they might run out of the room.
16:39 You know, instead of really giving
16:41 the person a chance to unload.
16:43 So I was talking with someone on the phone the other day
16:46 who said that, their spouse
16:48 and they evidently had quite the history of this
16:51 but he was shouting and screaming so much
16:52 that she finally took her glasses off
16:54 and got on his face and said,
16:56 if you want to hit me go on and hit me,
16:57 and I'm thinking, whoo.
16:59 Yeah, yeah. You're really opening that.
17:01 That, that tends to be a challenging saying like that.
17:03 So but don't you, would you agree
17:05 that in especially, what if the husbands really abuse you.
17:08 I mean--
17:09 You know, let me put that as a school nurse
17:12 we see the results of, a lot of times with children
17:15 that are in families with, with the lot of abuse
17:17 and they act out what they see at home.
17:21 And when you are in the presence of someone
17:23 who's ragging or seriously in anger,
17:27 if you try and use these skills
17:28 it maybe very dangerous and backfire on you.
17:32 Sometimes you can use the fogging,
17:34 that fogging strategy that we talked about where you,
17:37 you're not escalating--
17:38 Yeah we've talked about that in last program,
17:39 so let's explain that.
17:40 Oh, okay, the fogging is,
17:42 where you just say yes, sometimes I you know,
17:45 I am late with getting the meals on a table or yes,
17:48 sometimes I'm not caring as I should be
17:50 or yeah, I do things you know,
17:53 I don't keep the house as cleans as, as I'd like to.
17:57 You agree with some of these statements
17:59 that they're accusing you off because it helps to deescalate.
18:02 The energy, right then and we are,
18:05 it's, its most of the time it's really true.
18:08 Now you know, if they are accusing you
18:10 of some really bad thing that is definitely not true
18:14 then you know, you can--
18:15 you don't take responsibility for something
18:18 that is absolutely a blatant lie.
18:20 But for those things that,
18:22 that you can assume some responsibility
18:24 you can agree to that
18:26 because it does help to escalate.
18:28 But when you're in, in the presence of someone
18:30 who is ragging or under the influence
18:32 of alcohol or drugs.
18:36 Probably using fogging skills are very helpful
18:38 because you can't reason with them.
18:40 And using the skills like let me say
18:42 if I understand you correctly it can actually escalate
18:46 their, their intense anger.
18:48 They are not interested in communicating.
18:50 It's a power issue.
18:51 And again it's more about them.
18:53 It's the issue, is about their anger
18:55 and they're using this is as a control over you
18:58 to dominate you or something like that.
19:00 And so the communication skills in that respect
19:03 probably fogging and trying to deescalate
19:06 or your safer outlets then to try to understand correctly.
19:10 So for child, if a spouse in that situation
19:14 you just try to defuse the situation
19:17 and agreeing with something that's reasonable
19:19 if, if it is true, what about a child, Nancy?
19:23 I mean, you know, for a child how does a mother teach a child
19:28 who as a parent.
19:30 You know, we see and I'm sure you've seen this.
19:33 You see children who come from these types of homes
19:36 and they either act out
19:38 or their mechanism is that a defense mechanism
19:43 is that they completely retreat they wall off.
19:47 You know, I had my tendency
19:49 going up in a very dysfunctional home was to retreat.
19:53 You know, I was the peace maker in my home but,
19:56 but if things got really bad what I did was closed off
19:59 all my emotions and retreat and not talk about it to anyone.
20:03 So how do you, how do you instruct a younger person
20:07 who is going through this kind of a situation at home
20:11 where there are no community,
20:12 you know they've parents that are shouting back and forth
20:15 what's good advice for child?
20:18 You know, when I was working with children in the school
20:21 and I worked with them for kindergarten
20:23 right on up through college
20:26 a lot of times I would help them.
20:28 First of all and, and even it would be an example
20:31 of as I was helping them how,
20:34 you know, they would even need to,
20:36 to deal with their parents.
20:37 I mean, you know,
20:38 you don't think of a child parenting a parent
20:42 but sometimes the children can actually
20:46 learn some of these skills
20:47 that can help to defuse the situation.
20:50 And a lot of times they're usually filled up tension
20:53 so forth just helping them get rid of some of that,
20:55 would make it easier for them to put up or some of the,
20:59 the yelling that they had to
21:00 or go through when they were at home.
21:02 I think too that, if a parent after the incident the,
21:06 you know the anger incident whatever
21:08 if the parent would go to that child
21:09 and will talk about what happened
21:11 if the child was observing this or whatever.
21:13 Give the child the opportunity to share
21:16 what they heard or what they felt or you know
21:19 and recognize their feelings if they were scared
21:22 or if they were crying or whatever acknowledge that,
21:25 this was a scary time for them.
21:27 And reassure them and that you're gonna you know,
21:32 protect them that they can be you know,
21:34 feeling comfortable.
21:35 But allow them you're, you're respecting them
21:37 and you want to show that you're approachable that you--
21:42 you're acknowledging that the world
21:44 is pretty shaken up like this and that they have
21:46 that opportunity to share that with you.
21:48 So if someone is watching
21:50 and we're talking about going to a deeper level
21:54 what would you say is the purpose
21:56 of going to the deeper level?
21:59 There is probably a couple of purposes here
22:02 that are really important.
22:04 I mean, one just to develop the deeper bond
22:06 or the deeper relationship
22:08 and another one is there is the things
22:10 that are buried down deep inside that
22:12 we've never had a chance to talk to anybody
22:15 with who would listen to us in a caring way.
22:18 I had a situation that came up
22:22 when I was around 50-years-old
22:24 and it had happened when I was little kid
22:27 and I didn't even know about it.
22:29 But my mother knew about it
22:30 cause I went back and I asked her
22:31 but I had come into and office of an individual
22:35 who tented to be a little over bearing
22:37 and all of a sudden I just saw in my mind just like a flash
22:41 and it seems like the Lord doesn't revealed
22:42 some of these things to you until you're ready for them.
22:44 So I guess I wasn't ready for this one
22:46 until I was like 50-years-old.
22:48 And I saw this flash in my mind
22:50 where I was standing just stiffly rigged like that
22:53 and they were two individuals holding something big
22:56 over my head well another smaller individual in the middle
23:00 was hitting over the head with something
23:02 and I didn't know what that was.
23:04 So I thought I bet my mom knows what that is.
23:07 So when I went back home and I asker what was that?
23:10 Well, I was playing safely in my yard
23:13 under the guardianship of my mother,
23:15 she was right, right there in the, in the house.
23:18 And some boys came over from next door
23:21 with their little bother the older boys
23:23 held big too my force over my head,
23:26 well they told the little boy to hit me
23:27 over the head with one f these coal shovels
23:29 which is about like that.
23:31 And that was buried in my subconscious
23:36 and you know, you carry around
23:38 this weight and you don't really realize how much of it,
23:41 it's sapping your energy and, and eating it up.
23:44 So the release of getting some of these things out
23:47 as the Lord brings them to your mind,
23:49 He's not gonna bring too much at a time
23:51 that'll be overwhelming
23:53 but if you have a situation with somebody listen to you
23:55 in a caring way,
23:57 you'll see that these things will start coming up
23:59 and you can have a chance to talk these things
24:01 through, process them, have God give you the healing
24:04 take away the anger the bitterness the resume
24:07 and any other types of things that would be in there the fears
24:10 then you're able to coup much better
24:11 with everyday life experiences.
24:13 So you know they are, sometimes in counseling
24:17 I'm sure that you have run into this
24:19 where they are people who have just never felt like
24:22 they've been heard anytime during their life.
24:26 What kinds of problems does that--
24:30 emotional problems does that create in someone
24:32 when they feel like no one really cares,
24:34 no one has really listened to them?
24:37 Oh, they can come across in that anger,
24:39 bitterness, resentment, hostility,
24:42 I remember visiting at one home
24:43 when I was early in the ministry
24:45 before I had taken some training in these listening skills.
24:50 And I, when I left that house I was just beat down
24:54 because I was taking it personally you know,
24:55 I didn't know how to throw these types of things off
24:58 but the people had gone through so much pain in their life
25:02 and so hurt and that the bitterness
25:04 that when I came there I represented
25:07 God in that sense of visiting with them
25:10 and they just poured out their heart
25:11 with all these bitter horrible things
25:13 and accusations of me and the church,
25:16 and the, the local headquarters and the next headquarters up
25:20 and they just went on and on and on.
25:22 And so it comes across very negative at first
25:26 but see if, if a person knows
25:28 how to help them unload these things.
25:31 If I only had the skills then I could have helped these people
25:34 unload this bitterness, they would just filled with it.
25:38 So in using our communication skills was kind of go back
25:42 and recap that what we want to do is,
25:47 first learn to be active listeners
25:50 that we can paraphrase back to someone and saying,
25:53 is this what you're saying. Right.
25:55 The second is, and,
25:57 and we called the stem questions, right?
25:59 You're clarifying content. Clarifying content, okay.
26:01 You're clarifying just the superficial
26:04 initial part of the communication,
26:06 clarifying the content of what they're saying,
26:07 you want to make sure you're at the fact straight.
26:09 That you've heard them correctly.
26:11 And that's when you use the stem questions.
26:12 All right, now and then to really get involved
26:15 in active listening now you're trying to read body language,
26:19 to see if someone is closed off,
26:22 I mean this is where we're getting to that deeper level.
26:24 And this is a part of active,
26:26 active listening is getting to that deeper level.
26:29 And then give somebody the opportunity
26:32 because most of us are at least I'm like a man, I'm a fixer.
26:37 You know if somebody is telling me something,
26:38 I want to help them and I want to help fix this.
26:41 And so we want to give people the opportunity
26:44 you keep asking questions
26:45 give them the opportunity to be heard.
26:48 Right. Is that right?
26:49 Exactly, yeah.
26:50 Again each one of these listening skills,
26:54 is a way to facilitate them to keep going,
26:57 to keep going and they naturally do tend to go a deeper level.
27:01 I mean more you practice this,
27:03 the better you're going to be able to get
27:04 at which skill to use next,
27:06 but again we can't go wrong with the skills.
27:09 I mean, it's true a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous
27:11 but once we've learned the skills and we practice
27:14 and practice and practice
27:16 then we're bound to do better than we did before
27:19 because before we're doing so much blocking statements
27:22 or just walking away or just changing the subject
27:24 or something like that,
27:26 we're not facilitating things to get better.
27:28 Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive the mercy
27:31 and it is merciful to sit and listen to someone.
27:34 Sometimes we feel like
27:35 we're suffering through ourselves when we're listening
27:37 but if we really learn to hear a person's heart
27:41 we'll get closer to them.
27:42 Thank you so much for joining us today,
27:44 it has gone so quickly and I believe
27:47 that we're touching on something very important.
27:50 For those of you, you at home
27:51 and may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ,
27:53 love of the Father,
27:54 and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit,
27:55 be with you always.