Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Jim Burr
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000363
00:43 Jim Burr who is the president of Heavens Declare and we're going
00:49 be talking today... We've kind of been talking in general about
00:53 creationism, intelligent design and evolution, but we're really
00:58 going to get today into evolution, how they say life
01:04 started. There was absolutely nothing and nothing exploded
01:09 that created all this. Whereas Jeremiah said it was God who
01:13 created by his word everything.
01:17 David says in Psalm 139:17 that God knit me together in the womb
01:23 And over and over again the Bible says that God is the
01:27 creator of all things. We believe that, that in the
01:30 beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was
01:33 God and that all things were created through him. So let me
01:37 just for the sake of those of who may not be familiar with Jim
01:42 Burr, can't believe anybody wouldn't be, but Jim is a very
01:46 fascinating individual who has a great deal of knowledge about
01:51 astronomy and the topics that we are addressing today, but he
01:57 also is an inventor and designs and develops telescopes, some
02:01 that have been sold to NASA. So having set you up like that
02:06 let's talk about Darwin and corn
02:10 OK. I was reading this book about Darwin and I'm not going
02:14 to promote the book so I'm not going to mention it, but it was
02:17 just kind of interesting because I'm reading in here and this
02:20 author is saying you know we used to think that it was a
02:24 miracle of God that you could put that little seed in the
02:28 ground and it grew. We used to think that was God. But now
02:33 through science and chemistry we can explain what makes that
02:38 seed grow, how that seed grows. And I was looking on the
02:43 internet the biology of germination. In fact, I was
02:47 going to bring you an article to read which I didn't do, but
02:53 there is one book of 900 pages on the germination of the fern
02:59 spore. Yet in the opening they said there's still a lot of
03:04 things we don't know. So they're saying we used to think
03:08 this was God but now this is not God. This is not a miracle. Man
03:11 can't do it, right? We can't create a seed. We can't create
03:14 life. The Bible says you put it in the ground, it dies. Another
03:17 scientific fact, we can test that, right? The Bible says the
03:21 see dies and up comes the plant. You know and how does that
03:26 happen? Man can't produce it. And because we can explain it
03:32 does that mean it's not scientific. And they would say
03:33 well it's the natural world.
03:35 Wait a minute. You said because we can explain it does that mean
03:38 it's scientific. My question would be because we can explain
03:43 it does that mean that it's not a miracle. If we can't reproduce
03:47 it, it's still miraculous is it not?
03:51 Yes but they would get out of it by saying well this is the
03:54 natural world, this is the natural world, the seed goes in,
03:58 it's nature, right? You see. Probably we should reterm that
04:03 by saying it's superhuman, it's beyond human ability to make
04:08 that little seed grow. Yeah, it said in there, the biochemistry
04:13 of germination poses many unsolved questions. That was in
04:17 Seed Technology, 900 pages. I should have brought that little
04:21 paragraph because it is just to me gobbledy gook. All the names
04:26 they've given to all the processes that go on to make
04:29 that seed grow, it's just amazing. But Richard Dawkins
04:32 wrote in one of his books. I thought it was really
04:36 interesting. He says, I shall not be surprised if in the next
04:40 years chemists report they have successfully midwifed a new
04:45 origin of life in the lab. Midwifed. That's an interesting
04:49 terminology. They can't create it but they
04:52 can midwife it. God would say go make your own
04:54 chemicals, right? But he is not going to be surprised if in the
04:59 next few years... So really what is Richard Dawkins, Dr. Dawkins,
05:03 telling us? Is he telling us that we are not intelligent
05:07 enough now to create life? But in the future we might be
05:11 intelligent enough to create life in the lab and prove that
05:15 it doesn't take intelligence to create life.
05:17 Now we're really talking in circles just as he is, right?
05:23 So that's an excellent point. We're not smart enough to do it
05:28 now, we don't have the intelligence but if we study
05:31 harder and gain more intelligence there may be a day
05:34 that we can create something they say it didn't take
05:36 intelligent design. Right and they're using
05:39 intelligence. You see all of these efforts to create life in
05:42 the test tube and everything is done with the process of
05:46 intelligence. So that's an interesting choice of words,
05:49 midwifed. But in the 50s we had the two guys by the name of
05:53 Miller and Uri that were trying in a test tube to create life,
05:58 to get whatever they could get. I had made this little model of
06:03 their device. It didn't survive the airplane trip. Probably the
06:08 TSA inspectors. I thought I'd packaged it pretty well. But
06:13 what they did, they were trying to get some elements, some amino
06:21 acids and so forth and see what they could get. Scientists
06:25 believe that when life evolved on earth it was what they call
06:28 a reducing atmosphere. There couldn't have been oxygen here.
06:33 That's why we're going to Titan. That's why I showed you in one
06:38 series we landed on Titan that moon that has a lot of methane
06:42 gas there. And they think that in order to get this life going
06:46 we needed methane, we needed ammonia, we needed sparks from
06:50 lightening and stuff like this. So they put in here water vapor.
06:55 They heated it up, boiled the water, methane, ammonia, they
06:59 put sparks over here to see what would happen and I think I
07:03 read one place they'd actually tried 100 different times to get
07:07 some elements of life that they could identify. They'd sample it
07:10 through this little tube on this side. It would condense down and
07:14 cool and so forth. Eventually they were able to get some amino
07:17 acids. They got some tar; that's the stuff you make streets with,
07:20 you'll die if you eat that. They got some amino acids but
07:24 actually they got left-handed and right-handed amino acids.
07:28 They don't tell you this in school because the right-handed
07:33 ones destroy life. They're poisonous to the formation of
07:38 proteins. Isn't it amazing. I remember
07:42 hearing this before. I'm not sure if I read it or saw it on a
07:46 scientific program, that there are right-handed amino acids
07:49 and left-handed amino acids and the two don't mix. So nobody can
07:54 create life. But all life has this in it. It's just amazing.
07:57 You know we use the left-handed and right-handed rule in
08:02 magnetism to find the force north-south pole. We take our
08:05 fingers, this would be the right-hand rule and we say the
08:09 flex line of the magnetic is flowing this way and this is
08:12 going to be north and so this would be left-handed. The same
08:14 type of thing goes here for left-handed and right-handed.
08:16 The way of the rotation as they look at it under a microscope.
08:21 The impression is really given to the children in school books
08:26 that they really did something here that was significant. And
08:31 they didn't do anything significant at all. And they
08:33 have tried over and over again since those early 50s when they
08:36 did this experiment, they've tried and tried again to
08:38 duplicate it. They haven't been able to duplicate it. I mean
08:40 they haven't been able to come out with anything more than what
08:43 these two guys, Miller and Uri, did. So they used intelligence,
08:47 they used artificial atmosphere, they wouldn't let oxygen be
08:50 present. And yet if they had gotten a cell to live what do
08:54 they need for the first cell? They need copious amounts of
08:59 oxygen. Jeffrey Bottrop made a statement in one of his books
09:03 that the biggest unsolved problem that we have when we
09:07 entered the 20th century, how did life originate, we still
09:11 have. I read that wrong. Today as we leave the 20th century
09:15 we have the same, the biggest unsolved problem when we entered
09:19 the 20th century-how did life originate on earth. In the
09:25 beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was
09:27 God. He was in the beginning with Him. All things were made
09:30 by Him, without Him was not anything made. He could call it
09:33 into existence, he could speak and it was so. The energy and
09:36 the power from his voice. He didn't lift a finger when he
09:39 created the universe.
09:40 I've read in books, a number of books, where various atheistic
09:46 scientists have said that they cannot prove their theories and
09:51 the evidence that lines up to prove the Bible, the idea of a
09:57 creator God, they totally disallow because to support that
10:01 even though they see evidence, to support that would mean that
10:06 they're supporting the Bible. So a lot of what we read in
10:11 scientific reports, there are people with agendas and this is
10:17 something that I guess every parent needs to... There's
10:21 nothing wrong with keeping up with what science is doing but
10:26 we can't take that to the bank because there's a lot of it out
10:30 there that... I won't use the word falsified but that's
10:36 probably a good word, there's a lot of what they document or put
10:40 forth as being tested that's not really been tested.
10:43 We can do a whole program on that and where they freely admit
10:48 that they've got an agenda. They freely admit it. You know
10:53 life is impossible... There's some of these guys like Francis
10:56 Crick and so forth will say life couldn't have evolved and the
11:00 chances of life evolving are like a number so big we can't
11:04 even write the number. Yet I believe we evolved. They used
11:07 to think spontaneous generation of life. If you had rags and
11:10 grain in a corner it was mice, that was a recipe for mice, OK?
11:14 Some warm little pond. And then Louis Pasteur demolished the
11:18 theory of spontaneous generation of life, he just demolished it
11:22 and so there is no spontaneous generation of life. And you're
11:25 happy every time you open the peanut butter jar there's no
11:28 no spontaneous generation of life, right? The whole food
11:31 industry is based on the fact there is no spontaneous
11:34 generation of life. They do millions of tests to be sure
11:38 when you open that jar every time that there's nothing alive
11:42 in there. In Scientific American there was a statement in one of
11:47 the magazines that said that the living cell is so complex that
11:50 even with our super computers we may never be able to fully
11:56 synthesize the living cell. But even incomplete models could
12:02 shake the foundations of biology
12:05 So what does that mean, incomplete models could shake?
12:08 Well they're saying we can't fully synthesize it, we can't
12:10 fully understand what's going on. They say it's more complex
12:14 than New York City at rush hour. Can you imagine how busy, how
12:18 complex New York City is at rush hour?
12:19 So you're saying the single, smallest possible living cell is
12:25 that complex? Yeah, we can't understand what
12:27 all is going on in the living cell, how that cell can nourish
12:31 the body, how it can take on oxygen, how it can replicate
12:34 itself and all this type of stuff. And you think of New York
12:37 City with 10 million people in New York City, 10 million cell
12:40 phones. What's going on in New York? Subways, buses, taxis,
12:44 people, communications, cell phones, signals from satellites.
12:48 I mean, and they're saying this living cell that they used to
12:52 think was just a piece of protoplasm and it was easy for
12:55 it in a pond to evolve and life came about through this
12:59 Darwinian evolution. But now they're saying that we
13:03 understand that a single cell is more complex that New York City
13:07 at rush hour. Now take that cell You got New York City at rush
13:11 hour. Are you picturing that? OK with all that's going on.
13:14 Now take that New York City and reduce it to a pin head and
13:17 put another 1000
13:18 on the top of a pin head. The complexity of 1000 New York
13:22 Cities going on the end of a pin. We were just talking about
13:25 the fact that the red blood cells... You can put what,
13:27 50,000 red blood cells on the end of a pin. Cells vary in size
13:31 obviously. There's quite a variation there but the
13:34 complexity of New York City... When I first started looking at
13:38 the heavens and the stars, I mean I was just blown away. I
13:42 I mean I just was blown away. I suppose maybe I'm a little bit
13:45 jaded now because I've looked through... We had a telescope in
13:48 my garage. It was a 40-inch telescope, you know, on a
13:52 four-wheeled trailer OK. So maybe I'm a little bit jaded.
13:55 The stars don't thrill me but I'm learning a little bit about
13:58 this through my microscope which we're going to see a clip in one
14:02 of these programs. But as I learn more about the genes and
14:06 the DNA and I don't know much about it, but I'm just blown
14:10 away again. To know how fearfully and
14:13 wonderfully we are made. Oh it is incredible. Darwin made a
14:20 comment about the sun that they used to think that it was God
14:28 that made the sun work and so what does the evolutionary
14:34 theory say how the sun was formed?
14:36 OK. Yeah, that was in that book that I was reading about Darwin
14:40 and this author who said the seed, he used to think that was
14:43 God and now he can explain it. They used to think the sun was a
14:46 miracle of God, I mean this was God that kept it going. But now
14:49 we can now explain through science and physics how the sun
14:53 works. So therefore it's not God anymore. Once again is it God
14:58 or isn't it God? Can man duplicate it? What is
15:00 interesting, we have on planet earth 168 universities,
15:08 governments that are trying to duplicate what happens on the
15:11 sun. What's going on on the sun? Well first of all let's back up.
15:16 We have the atom bomb which is the splitting of the atom. When
15:21 we split the atom we have tremendous energy but when
15:24 we fuse the hydrogen atoms together to get helium we get
15:26 a lot more energy from the fusing process that goes on in
15:31 the sun than we do from fission or the splitting of the atom.
15:37 And so how did the sun form? Well evolution says that first
15:43 it was nothing and then it exploded. In the universe we had
15:48 the big bang and then somehow we have all this hydrogen gas that
15:51 that began rotating and this hydrogen gas began collating,
15:54 condensing, getting smaller, rotating on its own gravity.
15:59 Now keep in mind we're talking about gas in space, a vacuum,
16:03 pretty much not a complete vacuum but pretty much. Can you
16:06 imagine gas in space. Doesn't it want to expand or does it want
16:10 to contract. I have gas in this little can here, OK this little
16:13 spray can. It's wanting to get out of here. And this isn't even
16:17 a vacuum. And when it does it's not going
16:20 out and coming out in a ball. It's expanding outward.
16:24 Yes, it's expanding. You see it doesn't like being in here. It
16:26 wants to get out and this isn't even a vacuum. In a vacuum if I
16:29 spray this in a vacuum it would come out even faster wouldn't
16:33 it? So evolution says that we had all this hydrogen gas. It
16:36 began rolling and rotating, collating, condensing, getting
16:39 denser and denser upon itself with all its gravity and it got
16:44 so dense that it hit 25 million degrees. It takes 25 million
16:47 degrees to ignite the sun, 25 million degrees to get those
16:51 hydrogen atoms to fuse together to form helium. But it just
16:55 happened. Everything was right. You see now we have 167 or 168
16:59 universities and institutions around the world trying to
17:01 duplicate that. The sun is wonderful because we've got all
17:04 this energy. Do you see pollution from the sun? We got
17:06 all these fires in California and fires in Colorado. The skies
17:09 and sunsets are red and the skies for the astronomers are
17:13 kind of bad with all this smoke. But do you see smoke from the
17:16 sun? The sun is pollution free. It can solve all the energy on
17:18 planet earth. We can solve all of our problems and use sea
17:21 water, basically I'm simplifying it, use sea water to produce the
17:27 process that goes on on the sun, fusing of hydrogen atoms...
17:32 And so we're desperately looking for this source of
17:35 energy. But there's no crucible on earth that can hold hydrogen
17:39 gas at 25 million degrees. What do we do? Well we can put it in
17:45 a magnet. So we have TOCAMAC is a name, it's a Russian acronym.
17:50 So we've got all these chambers of magnets that try to hold the
17:54 hydrogen gas and try to heat it so we can get it to 25 million
17:58 degrees so we can fuse those atoms together so we can solve
18:02 our energy problem.
18:03 How can they contain 25 million degrees though if they do get
18:05 it to 25 million degrees?
18:07 Well they have just about achieved that at Princeton
18:10 University. How small a mass are we talking
18:12 about? Oh it's a pretty good sized unit
18:14 I mean, it would be as big as this room probably, yeah, it's
18:18 pretty big and they're working on even some bigger ones.
18:20 Europe is working on a bigger one where I showed you the
18:22 picture. Sorry I didn't bring the pictures with me. I had
18:25 it down here and you see this big magnetic thing. We spend
18:28 billions of dollars to try to get the energy that God put in
18:32 the sun. Twenty-five million degrees. No crucible will hold
18:35 it so we put it in a magnetic field to heat it. Now at
18:37 Princeton they actually got out almost as much energy as they
18:40 put in. I mean, they reached at one point before they shut it
18:43 down for a few seconds, they actually got power out of it,
18:47 enough power to run it, but no extra power to run your cell
18:52 phone. So they're still working on this and of course they're
18:56 also looking at maybe even using lasers some way to get this
19:01 thing hot. But does it make sense that this hydrogen gas in
19:06 space could get so hot on its own. Oh, you know what, we've
19:09 got another problem. We have 100 billion stars in the Milky
19:12 Way galaxy. A 100 billion times all this hydrogen gas was just
19:16 right and it got to 25 million degrees and these things
19:18 exploded and then we got that star and we got 100 billion
19:21 stars and it was just right 100 billion times and then we have
19:25 a 100 billion galaxies with a 100 billion stars in each galaxy
19:28 Everything was just right. It just happened. But we can't with
19:31 all of our brains, all of our money, all of our funding, we
19:34 cannot duplicate what happens on the sun.
19:35 And doesn't it always come back to the same thing, just like
19:39 with the Big Bang theory. You had mentioned that there were
19:43 six profound questions that they could not answer with the Big
19:48 Bang theory, one of them being where does the existence of that
19:52 first matter come from and how do you explain that matter. So
19:56 how do they explain the gases?
19:57 Well there's all the theories of the Big Bang and inflation and
20:01 String theory and all this kind of stuff and there are problems
20:05 with all of it. But in Jeremiah 32:17, I don't know if I dealt
20:08 with this question or not, but let me read you Jeremiah 32:17:
20:11 You know what it says? Oh Lord God behold thou has made the
20:15 heavens and the earth by thy great power... Goes along with
20:18 E equals MC squared. Matter and energy are interchangeable.
20:22 And nothing is too hard for thee Nothing is too hard for thee.
20:26 Our time is moving on but I need to share a couple more things
20:30 with you. Did I answer your question?
20:32 Well what I really want you to do is talk about how could
20:36 everything... There's the idea how could everything appear from
20:44 nothing? Well it can't. But nothing is
20:48 too impossible for the Lord. This is an article in Scientific
20:53 American, we've got seven more minutes, so we're OK. They were
20:57 talking here about the fact that the Big Bang cannot answer
21:00 six major questions. The first question is the very existence
21:03 of the Big Bang. How could everything come from nothing?
21:05 They can't answer that. Some of the problems are the uniformity
21:08 of the universe, the expansion of the universe, the density of
21:12 the universe. The density of the universe has to be on part in 10
21:15 quintillion. To compare this to something you know about on
21:19 earth, we could take the beaches of North America and South
21:23 America, all the sand on all the beaches could maybe come in
21:27 somewhere 10 quintillion.
21:28 Wow! That's all the grains of the sand?
21:32 That's all the grains of sand. Now the universe has got to be
21:35 so finely tuned that if one of those grains of sand is missing
21:37 the universe can't work. That's what they're talking
21:40 when they say that the density would be within one part in 10
21:44 quintillion. That's how finely tuned they say... I mean, we
21:48 could do a whole program on this kind of stuff. The Big Bang
21:51 offers, and this is Scientific American, 2007, last fall, on
21:59 the... Anyway, the Big Bang offers no explanation apart from
22:06 dumb luck. We don't have any explanation apart from dumb luck
22:11 And this is scientists who are writing this article saying this
22:16 about all of their theories and conjectures.
22:19 It could be just writers that are writing articles
22:21 interviewing scientists. And I know they have to make an
22:24 article. This kind of stuff people like to read, so I mean
22:27 they're looking for a good article, right? So we'll have to
22:29 give them kind of a little slack there. But in this same article
22:33 it says cosmology is a difficult science. OK, explaining the
22:36 universe is a difficult science. We've always know it's been
22:41 difficult, except for dumb luck, OK? But in many ways the whole
22:47 universe is easier to understand than a single-cell animal. We
22:52 can't explain this, only dumb luck, is the only way we can
22:56 explain this how this all works. But that would be easy
23:00 explaining that compared to a single-cell animal.
23:02 Then here the very same scientist who can't explain how
23:08 the universe works and yet believes in evolution and
23:15 they're saying that the idea of a single-celled animal, the
23:20 amoeba, let's say, is more complicated, what is going on in
23:26 that single cell than everything that's going on in the universe.
23:29 So they can't explain that. They can't explain life. Of course,
23:33 everyone has heard of cloning, we've heard of the things going
23:37 on there, but they cannot create life.
23:41 No. They can't even create the seed. Shelley, I want to get to
23:44 the prophecy of the Messiah, wind this up, because our time
23:46 is slipping away. OK. I think to the scientific mind we can now
23:51 prove that you can trust the Bible. We can prove the prophecy
23:55 of the Messiah. If we look at the prophesies that I've taken,
23:58 10 prophecies of the Messiah here. What are the chances that
24:01 any one person on planet earth could fulfill all eight
24:03 prophecies, or 10 prophecies or 12 prophecies. And so I picked
24:06 the first one Micah 5:2, Out of Bethlehem Ephrata, out of thee
24:09 shall come he that is born King of the Jews. Well the globe is a
24:12 big place, but they specified the right Bethlehem, OK, the
24:16 right continent and so forth. And so we're going to assign
24:19 this some numbers. In fact, this came from Chuck Middler. I
24:23 didn't do the math on this so I have to give him credit but we
24:27 put this at one in 200,000, the chances of one person on planet
24:31 earth fulfilling this prophecy to be born in Bethlehem. The
24:34 next prophecy was his triumphal entry on a donkey. Well there
24:37 are a lot of donkeys and every body rode donkeys so we put that
24:40 very low at one in 100. Then we go down to Zechariah.
24:45 You mean one in 100 chances.
24:46 Yeah, one out of 100 people. Yeah. And the next one is
24:49 Zechariah 11:12 which is 30 pieces of silver, being sold for
24:53 30. OK, but I need to back up a little bit, put that at one in a
24:57 1000, to explain the probabilities of this happening.
25:02 We have to multiply this one and this one and this one. It's like
25:05 the story of two guys getting on the plane in the 70s when we had
25:08 bombs on planes. And this one guy said to his buddy, the
25:10 chances of one bomb being on the plane are one in a 1000 and his
25:14 buddy goes woe wait a minute that doesn't sound very
25:16 encouraging, very comforting. And he said wait a minute. He
25:19 said the chances of two bombs being on the same airplane are
25:22 one in a million because you have to multiply a 1000 times a
25:25 1000 so that you see how the probabilities go. So I
25:28 always carry my own bomb. That's a good one.
25:31 But that illustrates the probabilities of these
25:34 prophecies happening. So Christ wasn't sold for 100 pieces of
25:38 silver or 40 pieces of silver or whatever, 30 pieces. So we put
25:41 that at one in a 1000. The chances that the transaction
25:43 would happen in the temple... You see they couldn't take this
25:47 money into the treasury because it was blood money. They could
25:50 pay a debt or buy a field. So the transaction happened in the
25:53 temple. They took the money and bought Potter's Field. There are
25:57 actually two prophecies in that one; this is Zechariah 11:13.
26:02 The first one was Micah 5:2 and the donkey was Zechariah 9:9.
26:06 So we put this at one in 100,000 to two double prophecies it
26:10 would be the transaction would happen in the temple and they
26:14 would buy a potter's field with it. The time of his birth was
26:18 predicted in Daniel 9:25 and we put that at one in 10,000.
26:23 That seems low to me.
26:25 Well we went on down, we've got to move along here. He did not
26:29 defend himself when he was innocent. How many times if
26:31 you're innocent you're going to defend yourself, right.
26:34 Absolutely. What are the chances that somebody on death row
26:37 would be buried in Bill Gates's tomb. You see, he was condemned
26:40 and yet he was buried with the rich. I don't have time to go
26:44 through all these. But when we get to prophesy number 8 the
26:47 chances of one person, if you multiply this together, the
26:49 chance of any one person on planet earth fulfilling all
26:52 those prophecies are the same as if you cover the State of
26:54 Texas with silver dollars two feet high. There's one silver
26:57 dollar that has been marked on that somewhere. You have to walk
27:00 through the State of Texas blind folded and find that one silver
27:04 dollar. You could still possibly find it; according to science
27:07 you could still possibly find it but there's a number at which
27:10 you cannot find that and if we take four more prophecies...
27:14 To the scientific mind anything with 10 with 50 zeros behind it
27:17 can never happen. The law of probability is
27:20 telling us then that the Bible is absolutely accurate. Not only
27:25 was Jesus the Messiah but he is the creator God and God created
27:30 all things. Jim thank you so much for joining us. I can't
27:33 believe how fast the time flies.
27:35 We got it all in. We had to talk fast.
27:37 You did well. We want to think you so much for joining us at
27:40 home and I hope you're enjoying this program and we're going to
27:43 invite Jim to come back for another one because we want to
27:47 talk to you about DNA. He has some fascinating things to share
27:51 May the Lord richly bless you today and always. Thank you.